After 10 years of training judo and training with excelent judokas, one guy didn't break my balance, but instead everything in my right knee with his attempt of a tiatoshi. I tried several times to get back into the sport, but the knee injuirees stuck with me my whole life and there just wasn't a chance to do the sport anymore without sever pain and risking my knee to get stiff permanently. Still loving the sport and dreaming about it.

Ironically, in bjj class, hiki comi gaeshi is one of the first throws we learn right after osoto as a white belt. Our bjj professor is also a judo black belt as well. But he also advocates the same angle method as sensei, rolling with the opponents shoulder in the chest. I’ve been thrown scores of times with this throw without injury - so far.

A failed Tani otoshi snapped my ACL 6 months into judo and ended my grappling for 8 months. At this point I've been recovering longer than I've trained thanks to one training partner not knowing how to do a throw during stegeko. I truly love grappling, it's so painful that a moment of negligence cost me so much (thousands of dollars in medical bills and not being able to train with my friends)

Wow this video was so informative and very extremely well explained down to the last finest most minor detail. It literally gave me a new perspective on grappling as an art

Yagura Nage is a beautiful technique! Great video!!

I like the summary in the end where you show all 5 throws you mentioned throughout the video.

Thanks for showing us the subtleties of these dangerous throws.

Thank you Sensei. You are strong 💪💪! I haven't seen these techniques in competitions yet.

I was taught to get my hip behind the opponents leg and drop/sit down in the tani otoshi like you show for this exact reason, so even if the angle is bad, the risk is less severe because you're not pulling/throwing him, you're falling with him. Its a very good throw used by beginners because it's a good counter when you're fighting newbies like me

Thanks for the great tips. I try to remember them when the need comes.

Thanks for the technique breakdowns - Great narrative and breakdowns of the mechanics as usual . As a trad jiu jitsu practitioner i think it is important to know how the old jiu jitsu (where Kano developed his original syllabus from) technique really worked to maim, disable, or kill an opponent (ie by throwing them onto their shoulder or head) so you know how not to throw your training partner in a way that is dangerous.

First 3 have been our “core” techniques before any tourney my sons competed…and Sotomaki, the Valleydrop, Sumikaeshi…and last time I’ve seen how devastating this when your head is crushed to the floor…and whiplash from Tani if done right…thank you Sensei for going over this important points to educate the public

The first one is one of my favourite throws in sambo. Really nice video!

I haven't seen your videos in awhile. They're all very good videos very well detailed 👍.

A very important video for those who do not know these throws but are thinking to learn to add to their repertoire.

Seen two separated shoulders from soto makakomi. One of them, I was tori, when I was a kid decades ago. Had been very careful with it ever since.

I think plain old O Soto Gari is the throw most likely to result in concussion. It's almost impossible to do proper ukemi on and if someone underestimates the throwing force the back of their head gets slammed onto the mat real easily.

Great presentation 👍

Thank you very much, great video on those dangerous but legal nages🙏🙇‍♂️🥋

I had my shoulder separated permanently by someone doing a sode tsuri komi goshi like makikomi- drove me straight to the mat with no chance of a fall. 25 years later I’ve had surgery to repair what they could but Im out of practice til it recovers. Be good to your partners judokas!

Shintaro with all due respect (and that is a lot) that first throw was Harai Makikomi. Soto Makikomi you push both your hips through (think of an over-turned O-Goshi position) and then wrap them around you as you drop, you don't reap with the leg, and you don't drop onto Uke, you end up next to hime on the mat. I do this throw off the grip when my opponent reaches deep with their Tsurite for my lapel and they shorten the turn for me by over extending their arm. It is a very easy fall if done correctly. You also end up in an excellent position for ne waza since this technique is unlikely to score Ippon. The Kodokan has videos up demonstrating what I describe here, and my understanding comes from the original Kodokan illustrations and text.

In my first ten years or so of judo I loved sutemi wazas, throws like tani otoshi and uki waza really only ever worked for me if I had the timing just right. And I always found that if my opponents mass wasn't off their center line the throw would fail, and I would end up in a sucker position for ne waza. Awesome stuff keep the great content coming.

I think Tani-otoshi is the most dangerous one on this list, seen so many injuries to the knee from this, including snapped PCLs, ACLs, spiral fractures etc. Suprised to see the Georgian Sumi-Gaeshi on there, I would have expected the Georgian Obi-Tori-Gaeshi/Khabarelli given it has a huge risk of dumping uke on their head.

I do number 1-4 all the time without a single injury in >25 years of judo. The two most serious injuries I have received were both from uchi mata (severe concussion with memory loss and broken elbow), both times in competition when somebody did it to me.

Great Classes Sensei! OSS

Awesome video

Thank you and Subscribed !

In 5 years the two major injuries I’ve seen both have come from tani otoshi. One time it was a 140 pound 5’5 70 year old brown belt (yes, 70, but actually really good) blew out a 230 pound 5’10 man’s knee.

Good info.

Love the video, huge fan of the Yagura Nage. How about a "5 Most Dangerous Illegel Judo Attacks"? I'd personally be interested to hear your opinions on what were (maybe never were) throws part of the general Judo curriculum that were banned due to their danger. I think one for sure is the scissor sweep and other leg attacks that put your opponent/partners knees in jeopardy, but I'm more interested in high profile throws. Doable?

You hit a few of my serious judo injuries on the head here. IMO for the non elite judoka soto makikomi is definitely the worst, especially when performed by big guys. The whole lock the shoulder and just fall over thing is a recipe for disaster, but not just for the reason you said, I had my shoulder separate this way because a tori who was twice my weight under rotated so my locked shoulder hit the ground first with his weight on top. I have never personally seen an injury from what I think of as Tani-otoshi, but I have seen a lot of serious knee injuries from bigger guys doing yoko gake basically in the way you suggested is dangerous to the knee, the reason the gake is worse is that tori can fix the knee/leg in place more than in a true tani otoshi where the action should be more an otoshi and less of a gake (in theory). At the elite level it seems to me that sode is the most dangerous objectively (although ura nage and some version of drop seoi often seem to drop uke on their head). I am sure there are more injuries form sode than reverse seoi nage.

4:02 Yapp, that side shoot got my friend's leg broken really bad by his brother

amazing

This is hilarious. We did all of these except Yagura Nage last night in the dojo. Glad no one was hurt 😮

I like your videos !

Oh I appreciate this one.

Really good video

Veramente molto interessante e importante . Bravi

For Tani - When I do it I am a big strong guy I swoop in and basically lift them up as I scoop my arms around them and turn them towards me. I try to get them upright and extended as they are turning into me which halts their momentum and up on their toes. It seems like if I am able to do it that way I would take the pressure off the knee and reduce risk. It fits me because I have a 6'4" wingspan on 5'11" height so I can get around them really well, and I am a former strongman competitor and even though I am not as strong as I was it basically mimics the extension portion of the clean for an atlas stone or sandbag.

I actually used to use a move I came up with that was really similar to the tani otoshi in high school wrestling for mat returns when my opponent was trying to stand up & escape from bottom position on the ground. I’d lock my hands around the waist, lay my leg across the back of the shins, sit down and back onto my butt then scramble on top of my opponent. It worked perfectly in collegiate wrestling (probably even better than in judo) because wrestlers will squat down and lean back when standing up to escape. You can also push & move forward on your opponent with your hands around his waist & then pull back into the otoshi to get him even more off balance.

Last year in summer camp we had zantaraia as headcoach and he did teach the yagura nage and i had even little randori with him

Great demonstration with good points in this video. I believe Hane Makikomi is also dangerous too, the way of Tori's landing on Uke's body... tori's full arm and big part of his shoulder is right on Uke's chest and sometimes may rich the side of the head during the landing! Depends how Tori is experienced with this throw. Oss.

I like how you show the throws at the start without the names.

They're not only legal, their mastery is in fact required to attain your black belt, at least in Holland they are.

4:24 I actually learned this in wrestling, but it was done after a single leg attempt. You would still hold on the the opponent’s leg which would prevent this from happening.

Osoto maki is like my dojo's bread and butter

Best🤝

Judo is one horrendously vicious style!!😬😱

What would be nice, is if he talked about. How to receive these throws, whit minimal risk.

I learned all these throws in Sambo years ago so much fun

Excellent video, guys - well done! It's great to see these technques are still alive even though they aren't included in the curriculum of most judo schools these days.

How do you prepare for them?

Two of my favorites are in that list 😬

Im suprised that Sumi Gaeshi is on the list. It was one of the first throws I learned and I never felt that it was dangerous at all. On the contrary - I considered it to be the safest throw becouse your oponent just rolls forward gently and everyone can do that.

I rememeber we were practicing tani otoshi, my partner, did it the wrong way, when he was falling, I was feeling my knee about to break, but luckly I acted quickly to prevent the injury

Im not trained in Judo ,.. y totally ,. very interesting , my sensei also says , no one is allowed to get hurt ,. (and he works security too) ty , for share ,. wish an nice day greets , pls stay well 🐞💐

i love this! is there any example in the cage of a striker attempting to counter these throws?

Yagura nage is found in most belt wrestling and grip wrestling styles around the world; everywhere from Iceland and Switzerland to Georgia and Mongolia.

For tani otoshi they don't even need to move the foot. Sometimes they just turn the foot so the trail leg can move around and that can happen in a fraction of a second, turning the knee without moving it. I'm a bigger fan of starting the tani otoshi but not dropping (sans "otoshi") so you're basically just checking the leg. If they don't lift the foot they'll still fall, and it opens their stance to a lot of other techniques. That being said, most people in competition aren't going to go for that when they have a high chance of scoring if they just drop.

10/10 fun to use

I'd like to see a video on the Judo Chop. My judo practitioners think this is a fake strike. But the Atemi-Waza is real in the early Judo arts.

Just come back from my MRI scan and 100% torn ACL from Tani otoshi just how it happened in this video....

Osoto gari und tai otoshi can be very dangerous too, if your opponent is breaking your knee in outwards direction instead of breaking your balance.

One of the first times ever using ura nage, I botched the throw angle and had about 200lbs of meat landing squarely on my chest. So, it can be dangerous for a bad tori as well

Osoto gari le top !

The mizuno gi 🔥

As one of my BJJ professors is also a judo black belt, definitely had Tani Otoshi on my blue belt test for jiu jitsu and ura-nage on my purple belt test. But saying that, it was taught and practiced in a very control environment. I definitely see how those can be dangerous in a competition aspect due to not knowing what the opponent will do to prevent the throw. A competitor can be very proficient at the throw and it only takes their opponent to be set themselves up just a bit differently than expected to destroy a ligament or cause head damage. Was curious what your opinion is on using tani otoshi in a self-defense situation. Obviously, we don't want to cause unnecessary damage but, in the end, it is a self-defense situation.

feels like in 5 years he'll go "well... all moves are now illegal cuz ya know... judo/jiujitsu are fkn dangerous" lol

Dear sensei Shintaro i want to mix your art with mine this is just mind blowing , more no gi please

my bjj instructor received a neck injury from move 2 during a judo tournament. His body went numb and transported to hospital. As far as I know he fully recovered. I didn't see the move but my understanding is he was tired and let his posture suffer. He got bent over after going for something, then his vastly more experienced opponent spiked him, sounded like intentionally.

I was teaching Tani otoshi to my brother being thrown by it. I saw that he was pointing his knee upward, meaning that I would land on his knee. I threw myself outward to save his knee. Uninjured despite the poor landing. In Jujutsu we taught Tani Otoshi as more of a drop versus the contact with the thigh, like a rear Uki Waza. The Yagura Nage looked kind of like an inside thigh Hane Goshi, really cool variation.

Thank you so much, im planning to do some of these moves in judo

What would be an alternative for tani otoshi or throws from the back that are safer?

I think we should forget about the “this is dangerous”. Now, I will agree a lot should be age appropriate. Osotogari has ended more judokas participation than any other (I would bet).

Welcome to Suplex City.

It must be laundry day at the Higashi house!

Soooo what are the ways to counter all these dangerous throws if someone were to do this to u be it on the street or sparring

Drop Seoi nage was always a bit of a problem throw where I trained growing up. Too many ppl landing on their heads…or face planting in some cases!

I trained from the age 5 till 18 and competed all the time, both national and international. I used Tani Otoshi all the time. The one technique that got me injured was ippon seoi nage...... dislocated elbow and shoulder blus broke my elbow. Ura Nage no scare me 😅.

Wow its been 15 years when i was last practicing Judo and now seeing most of my favorite techniques being illegal feels bad. I can understand they wanted to make Judo more Olympic sport and minimize accidents but gotta admit competitions look way more boring than back in the days.

Shows that Judo is still an effective martial art

Yakura nage as a counter can be so beautiful though :)

Liking yagura! Could be a good self defense vs bear hug?

Hope you are well, healthy mode

Great, like wrestling, bit rooted in chi?

i just remembered that i actually injured my shoulder twice doing judo. not on any of those techniques, not on one of the illegal techniques, but just getting thrown with a simple ippon seoi nage. bad height ratio between me and my partner, the exact bad speed dynamic when he pulled the throw, landed straight on the shoulder and couldn't roll because of wrong momentum, impact caused AC sprain...

These are all my favourite throws, I feel so sorry for all my randori partners.

I wonder what u think of yoko wakare shiai version

And the IJJF is why Sambo continues to become more popular

for me its not sumi gaeshi ( like kawaisshi shows) its obitori gaeshi

I WAS SURPRISED TO NOT SEE HAVARELI IN THIS LIST

you can see how this was for fighting in armour.

Awesome, I just gave my brother a concussion trying these. A+ techniques 👌🏼

there goes some of my favourite techniques :(

Sumo may just be the neckbreaker ☠️

Is there a safe version of Tani Otoshi like a reverse Uki Waza? I do this all the time wirhout putting pressure on anyones knee cos I'm behind them and have never come close to hurting anyone

i've never done sumi gaeshi with the position you showed, usually, i reach above the elbow of my partner on the same side as my arm to grab the belt, then i just let him try to stand up and lock himself tighter in the grip, his head end up face against my torso or even just beside mine. in the end i don't even throw my partner, but just make a clean roll with him using my height, sumi gaeshi is definitely the least violent technique i ever used.

That's all of my tokui waza right there

The way the makikomi is executed here resembles harai goshi more than the makikomi move.

Judo is pretty cool to watch