Ilan Pappe and Garbor Matte must be a thorn on the western and Israeli intellect and psyche. They can't simply label or dismiss their arguments.

Some people need to see these types of conversations in october 2023...

40 years ago Gabor Mate delivered my son at Grace Hospital here in Vancouver, BC 😍

I am a US citizen who experienced trauma as a child, in our home. And, my mom and I did see a therapist, a lovely kind woman, who helped us. We saw her together and separately. And, over the years I have started speaking out about topics that I believe led to the trauma,.. war, malignant capitalism, patriarchal ideals, etc. I have lost friends and family who do not want me to speak. And, more recently, I have spoken out about the oppression of Palestinians. And, of course, being a Christian,..I lost more friends,.. who do not want me to speak this way. Hearing Ilan and Gabor speak on the topic of trauma and ..how agency ..helps heal and helps tranform the trauma into something else, somehow making me... making a person feel whole and less traumatized.... This has been so helpful, to me, to hear them speak.. Please thank them both.

It's October 2023, and I am watching this very insightful discussion. Not much has changed, unfortunately .... there is still the oppression, genocide, destruction, and dehumanization of the Palestinian people. Israel still continues to believe it is the victim, but it also wants to be the victor. I pray for the resilience and resistance of the Palestinian people and hope they can rise victorious, psychologically, physically, economically, and above all, as human beings that are far better than those that tried to dehumanize them.

My first time hearing Gabor Mate speak. I have to get his books, incredible wisdom he shared in this conversation.

After seeing what Palestinians experience i refuse to complain about my circumstances...their courage strength and indominable spirit gave me a new lease on life. Am 54years old South African and giving myself over to the service of the "FREE PALESTINE" global movement.

As a South African who has lived through the tail end of Apartheid, one of the challenges post Apartheid is reconciliation between South Africans that is hindered by the inability/unwillingness of 'white' South Africans to attempt to understand and empathise with the experiences of Apartheid 'victims'... they want us to 'let it go, forget about it, get past it' without their acknowledgement of it truly meant for us to live with Apartheid... i believe it's just tooo hard for them to see themselves as the perpetrators, it's much, much easier to deny and look past the lives of Apartheid victims and nooo understanding that reconciliation demands acknowledgement and truly understanding the impact of the Apartheid system on its victims... Thank you for this discussion♥️

As a puertorican woman, I became acutely aware of the trauma that colonialism paved to my view of the world. It's very traumatic that my family and friends can't see how our people ,language ,culture, and history decimated . First came by Spain and their thirst of conquering my island, and then the USA completed the mission to oppress and denied my ability to live free and celebrate my taino heritage and the audacity to claimed that we owe trillions to the USA while not allowing me to have a voice by way of denying my right of voting and representation. Denial is a tool used by the survivors to deal with assimilation. Thanks to you, gentlemen, for validating my feelings ❤🇵🇷

finally! thank you Dr. Mate. I wrote a post on Dr. Alice Miller's blog about 15 years ago, I don't know if it is still there, about how traumatic the medical education system is. It is a "small-t" trauma, and yet I felt it so strongly that I took 2 years off between medical school and residency and considered leaving the field, not wanting to practice medicine if this field treats its next generation as I was treated.

Thank you for this wonderful discussion...I have not heard I. Pappe in a very very long time. G. Mate is an absolute pleasure to hear...brings back to a world with humans. Today, in Oct. 9, 2023, the western world and Israel are busy with what they do...its a sad, sad day.

Wow, thank you for this conversation. I’m a Canadian living in Nova Scotia which is where the Mik’Kmaq have lived for over 13,000 years 😢, my ex Wife of 13 years is Métis, her Father was Cree and mother was Scottish and Cree, I introduced her to some friends as being a Native descendant, she asked me when we got home to please don’t tell people I’m Native, I questioned her why, she responded by saying most people think Natives as dirty, this Broke my Heart and still brings a tears to my eyes. The Indigenous Cultures believed the Land never belonged to anyone, it was meant to be shared and now the Land is called Crown Land!

Thank you so much for organizing and moderating this conversation. I have been following Gabor Maté for years, and thanks to him, now I know ILAN PAPÉ and NORMAN FINKELSTEIN, I will listen and read more about them too.

Good start to bring the world together for peace Free 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

Today more than ever we need the wisdom of these masters to have hope a better, more human future is possible.

absolutely fantastic combo, Norman Finkelstein would have been a great dinner guest to include. An incredible wealth and I mean wealth literally of knowledge.

Prof Pappé and Dr Maté and the organizers, thank you so much. I have learnt so much from those 2 amazing people over the years through their books and activism. God bless them. Very eye opening to how seemingly separate problems are interlinked. How at the end of the day politics and social dynamics boil down to a set of beliefs. Also, the analogy between rigid ideologies like Zionism and addiction was powerful in many ways.

There was an African tribe I recall hearing about that when one of their children showed poor behaviour such as jealousy or fighting etc that the whole tribe would surround him as a circle and sing and dance him into a better state of mind to show their consistency of love and support. Whereas in today’s modern culture they don’t want to take time for their own kids, so they punish them, which only suppresses and lingers and shows the kid the parent is lazy not interested at all in the state of the child. But of course in these so-called modern times the parents time is monopolized by the system that intentionally made it that way.

My Dear Gabor, thankyou for your truth, you and Howard Zinn, who is now gone, but left a treasure for us, meaning generations of us in the U.S. are FINALLY hearing and reading the truth. Your books are priceless and Zinn's book 'A People's History if the United States'. Thankyou for your scholarship and hard work to willing look at truth even when it is painful AND your courage to tell the truth to the powers that be. Thank you!

Bravo! Two outstanding Jewish Luminaries 🤩 of the 21st Century 👍 They must be given an opportunity to speak 🗣️ at the United Nations 🇺🇳 General Assembly as Representatives of the UNIVERSAL VOICE of HUMANITY of the WORLD 🌎

I knew the name of Gabor but for the first time I am listening him and I will in the future too.I am deeply impressed of the wisdom and professionalism, of the ability to understand and recognize the true and to be empathetic to all people❤

THX a lot for everybody soeaking in this conference🙏🏻🌹♥️

I m addicted to Ilan Pappé ... Listening to him release the pain... temporaryly

Thank you! Mr. Pappe is great

Thank you so much for all you do to make a 🌍 a better place

I wish such discussions happened in India discussing Indian trauma faced by Dalits, adivasis(indigenous), kashmiris and present day muslims and many more

two great courageous men👍👍👍

Thank-you so much for this powerful conversation. I have so much love and respect for Ilan and Gabor, and am so grateful for their presence in this world. As a settler Canadian of mennonite ancestry, I am very aware of genocidal horrors that were inflicted (and continue to be) on the Indigenous and First Nations people of this land, that allowed my family have a home and safe refuge. It's something I have never taken lightly. But I am also all to aware of how many people don't want to talk about any aspect of this. In telling Indigenous people to "get over it", we are also denying our own pain that comes from benefiting from, and being part of this process. I don't believe that a full process of truth and reconciliation can happen, if we continue to deny the moral trauma that so many of us carry. I am SO, SO grateful for the honesty and compassion offered through this dialogue. What a precious gift. Thank-you.

It brings me to tears.. to be able to hear you speaking the sad truth.. oh heaven, wash the suffering of this beautiful world. Thank you Gabor Mate, Ilan Pappe and all you beautiful people, for your courage and sacrifice for bringing a few rays of light for us all. Thank you Universe for allowing this. Be blessed 💚🕊💚🕊💚🕊💚🕊💚

Gabor; an incredible human being. I read his book In The Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters With Addiction, and it changed the way I think. The book is about how and why addiction takes hold. It's insightful to all people from every walk of life.

Thank you for your tireless and esencial work and research you do. The truth is there we can stop our living in denial.

Can't get enough Ilan Pappé + Gabor Maté in these unconscionably horrific times 🥺 Thanks for this discussion 👏 Even tho this apparently was recorded a year prior to the War on Gaza, it feels as relevant as it ever could've ✊ #CeasefireNOW!!

Very insightful conversation. Thank you Gabor and Ilan and organizers!! I like so many aspects of this conversation. I love the beginning exchange (at minutes 8:00 to 20:00) where Ilan and Gabor mention their interests in speaking with each other to connect “Addiction to Ideologies”. Can we relate racism and dehumanization of others with the analysis of collectives or collective activities that hurt others? Can we relate history with psychology? Hence, can we feel compassion for those who are addicted to ideologies? Is there psychological comfort in believing in an ideology? Hypocrisy in conflict comes from ideologies. Addiction is about not dealing with our vulnerability. An ideology does that, and for this reason, ideologies are very seductive. Ideologies are an antidote to our own pain. Therefore to remove an ideology, we must soothe the pain, not caused more pain through violence to others (or harm to ourselves). If we can believe that there is Redemption, a Response and Revenge to the pain of what happened in the past to our families, an ideology makes it less painful to think about what happened in the past. Addiction has common features with belief in ideologies : they are both rigid in our incapacity to look at the truth, and to block our compassion, to serve as an antidote to the pain caused to us, our families in the past, and the pain caused now to others. There is still Barbarism in this world. What kind of selective mindset do we have to think that ONLY other people do it? As Gabor asks, would you rather be illusioned or disillusioned? Would you like to believe in fairytale ideas or see the truth as it really is? For me as a person interested in personality psychology and rigid mindsets and the force of addiction on us for many years, this exchange explains my own fascination with my more recent interest in conflict mediation and resolution, by integrating psychology in the peace building process. I hope you read my sincere interest in this. And if you are interested in this too, please join us in a group called Israelis and Palestinians for Peace (IP4P) in Facebook. We try to work on this as we can within the loud noise of conflict.

Thank you so much for this talk. It is so important to have these conversations now.

Thank you so much all for this wonderful presentation

I agree “a lot of people in this culture are traumatized and a lot more than they realize” but don’t forget to include the balance where the rest are manipulated that keeps that culture in its oppressive state.

The work of African and African American scholars have been writing about this for years. I would recommend bell hooks, Angela Davis, Lewis Gordon, Frantz Fanon to name but a few- this is not a new discourse , it’s a continuation of a larger freedom struggle

This was such a great conversation. So good. I just keep going back to through the timeline of Israel and Palestinian history and the story really hasn’t changed. The complaints and struggles have always been the same. I love listening and learning about it through the healing and trauma lens.

It's my first time seeing and hearing Gabor and Ilan. I am deeply impressed as both of them seem to me being “brothers in spirit” related to my cosmonomic philosophy which I have summed up in the Cosmonomic Manifesto. I appreciate the power and truth of this discussion and will recommend it to the readers of my blog.

17:49 Addiction is "(1) ritualized (2) compulsive (3) comfort-seeking". According to a researcher named David Sumrok. That's my favorite definition of it, at least. And it's in line with what Dr. Mate says here. Ideology connects to this very well, I think, especially because of the vital role of self-deception.

I like that “would you rather have truth or fancy ideas” as he circles his pen in the air like WHOOPTEDO LOL

Blessed by the beautiful moral imagination and moral conscience in this conversation. A very big Thank You to all involved 💐

Remarkable conversation! Thanks

Thank you for this motivational Conversation beautiful people.

My father studied psychology by himself taught me that medicine is both mind with body.

Thank you 🙏 so much.. a year later.

An intersting perspective about ideology as addiction as Dr. Mate puts it. Thanks

Begins at 7:30

blessings .... thank you

Excellent post. Thank you.

Great conversation, really enjoyed it. FYI Canadian residential school gravesites have only been identified by ground penetrating radar as "anomalous objects" and the 20 or so excavations have not found any human remains. Please correct me and provide sources if I am not up to date. The factor I really enjoy about these conversations is that they are genuine and not propagandist, if enough information is skated over or not mentioned across multiple conversations then I eye the conversationalist suspiciously as a potential propagandist.

I love gabor. His work on adhd and childhood trauma is awesome. But he doesn't understand religious people.

Gabor Mate MD PhD ❤

❤Thank you

Rami ♥️ Gabor ♥️

Every mom on earth agrees with me NO ONE ON EARTH HAS A RIGHT TO terrorize a family AND TAKE LIVING CHILDREN KEEP THe MOM AND HER CHILDREN WITH EACH

The link between exploitation of natural resources and people, is something I've been thinking about for a long time, somehow it's feels more reassuring when someone like Gabor Mate articulates your own thinking in a public platform.

He says Canadians probably couldn’t write three sentences about Iraq, Ukraine, etc. I know he doesn’t mean that as insult, and he’s likely referring to more current news, but I’m going back to the start because nothing’s changed. I’ll start with… “History of Iraq” the birthplace of civilization that was Mesopotamia. “Civilization” defined as “the stage of human social and cultural development and organization that is considered most advanced.” “Advanced” defined as “modern and recently developed.” But let’s get real, and I don’t refer to Iraq, I refer to the definitions: Kings justified slavery as the right to own “inferior people.” Now, if these slaves were actually “inferior” why would a so-called king with a competent plan and design for his own people need “inferior people” to cater to him and his people if he’s such a big independent self reliant self sufficient man made entirely of integrity with his people just the same in which they live and work together as “educated,” but instead all of whom monopolized an “inferior people” of its own time and space? So the cockamamie thousands of years later and an extremely greedy British kingdom the most widespread of all that manipulated and rebranded slavery to “service” and led to the United States where an infiltrated alcoholic president infiltrated the minds of his own people for it was so easy at this point the alcohol like a labotomy millions of years ago so complex 🙄 by way of his own language barrier now shouted “the war on terror.” It’s not as if colonialism’s own kingdom hadn’t terrorized civilizations and cut off their own heads. And the so-called “advancement” or “service” of what was technically A HIGH MAINTENANCE PEOPLE that makes demands rather than develop its own intelligence? That’s NOT “independence.” Having said all that, Mesopotamia has a very important lesson that teaches us about fraud and APPROPRIATION IN THE WEST. I agree with Dr Mate, Canadians are too PASSIVE. Why? BECAUSE THEY WERE MANIPULATED TO INVEST IN SO MUCH OF THE TIME AND SPACE A FEW WANT TO DOMINATE. Like he said, you can’t immigrate without oppressing someone else that’s not a solution that’s a powergrab. So that indigenous are still seen as expendable is nothing to respect. Nothing’s changed. There’s always someone who thinks they’re superior when in fact they prove they’re not “independent.”

Thank you 🍉

The automatically generated subtitles should be disabled. There are some glaring and misleading mistakes in them, that do not do justice to the speakers. The computers have not heard the words as spoken.

14 October 2023 Australia has justed voted NO in the Referendum to include VOICE for the Indigenous Peoples in the Australian Constitution. This result has fostered my disillusionment....as too others who voted YES It is a complicated thing to decolonise Australia....we are in for the long haul

✌🏼😇

What is the documentary Ilan Pappe was referring to?

After this comment, I’ll sift through the other 50 (OG’s eh?) for a link, but I sought CB’s article and it’s behind a paywall. I’ll go without. I love you, Gabor. I’m probably going to love your friend; I just discovered him today. I’d like to know this, so does CB have anything to say about it? Or anyone reading this comment…. Where is everyone else, beyond this church where a mass grave was found (Kamloops) ….have you been to Kamloops? I have. So my question is: where is everyone else buried at that time? I get it. We’re sorry, we’re still making things right. But I have questions.

Alice Miller. Gregory Bateson. Yes.

😢

😭the native girl got a needle stuck to her tongue? 🥺 Denial is potent … and the next thing is to undermine the value of any human being until the unspeakable is excusable

How does a group of people who have been thru HOLICOST could rationalize to become ceators HOLICOST to othors? I need to logically rationalize this thinking.

Banksters are money junkies , they definitely need a “ rehab “

Imence traumatic childhood of ghaza is going to be last lobg

36:49 we are still fucked.

and who has jobs in service industry and how we have bias we even put it into our AI idk how more clear it can be when we create somthing for without bias and it comes out biased bro its not us. nope not responsible. 45:56 i feel like some ppl are just playing another game. same servers different game.

Gabor, we don't want some crappy medicines, we l want our land back! #FreebPaestine #FreeAfrica

Thank god malcom made it clear he's a He/Him so I immediately know these people aren't worth listening too.

1:20:55 still its odd she would be odd one for basically being insane with abuse, to just go on with life. 1984 ish kinda. and also i liked animal farm better.

16/11/2023 laseem israil soljear mahuth 🔥laseem

1:16:16 litterly in same country tho two different societies for courts, justice, money, housing, policing, healthcare, institutional gaslighting. of rapists bro, bullies, cowards, emotional weaklings. out of sight out of mind.

0'35"....at the Institute of what ? Elocution not great.

This is a mighty pack of passives not a group I’m accustomed to, I apologize in advance I am far more critical of behaviours I ACTUALLY “zoom” in on. Ukraine has a history just as everywhere has a history it wasn’t always Ukraine either it was of Romanian etc just as Crimea is of Turkish history. That Ukraine became an “independent” country means nothing, as I can’t appreciate a country stating “independence” when it’s not in fact practicing “independence.” Had it been practicing “independence” it wouldn’t have led for war it would have been for neighbour and international relations. I see Ukraine’s leader was only a plant then the intention always being for war not “independence.” And what’s the war FOR-an underlying global domination then. There’s no way it can be for anything else because it’s not supporting “independence.” Nonsense. Instigators try to undermine ethics that’s a given never stops where consistency over persistence is required. So much for workers of ethics then a waste of time when they don’t have the integrity to make a strong enough impression that is respected.

🙄the world is over

why is it fine for ppl to be complicit in not calling out narcissistic people. why? ohh u are a troll no man i just see and its gross.

Gender studies? No such thing.

Ask an academic not to be an activist and he couldn't do it. I've no time for academics these days.

Mr. Gabor says that: unfortunately, today’s intellectuals have opinions from their ideology and are not necessarily factual truth. I have to say that it can be said on you and Mr pepper meaning that your belief on the Israel/ Palestine issue is a reflection of your ideology and not actually on the actual reality and history.

Oh, Hamas sympathizer convention.