It's the denial stage of grief.

it's so bad now that not even him can handle the news without positivity

It's over.

And he talks too fast

​@@john_connors always x0.75 speed. That makes the pleasure longer, as well as clarifying nuances..

Trash in trash out

So which came first, the egg or the hen? 🤔

Yeah, i'm not really sure if that's true.

@@celestinemachuca2339 GIGO

Funnily enough, this kind of technology is not sustainable if everyone switches over. Training data becomes smaller and smaller and its very useless once new technology with nothing but barebones documentation is needed. Once AI can actually develop "intelligence" and understand abstract context that can transform the learnings of one technology into another without knowing much about it; that's when it will replace the "top" developers.

That's what AI is best at. You shouldn't use it for the final product, but it's amazing for validating ideas and creating concepts.

wrong... simply so many people that can do it all the "opportunities" and value will be lost and more simply the supply will be a lot more than the demand. AI when it will take over coding I would say in 1 year probably within what can these programmers do with the coding skill when AI can do it better than them? I want to see your answer...

​@@youwannalearnfacts1259I truly feel that by that time, programmers would probably be the least affected. There's plenty of other fields that would take a major hit by the time AI can do a programmer's job. A few I could probably see are: Fast Food, Graphic Design, Concept Artists, Entrepreneurs, consultants, etc.

lmao

A lot of these tools don't scale but are operating at a massive loss due to the flood of VC being poured into the space. It obviously won't continue like that

​​@@mikebarnacle1469 And with the free money spigot closed (quantitative easing is over), they're really betting on this to be profitable.

@@mikebarnacle1469 Why not, the whole world has been running on fumes for at least 8 decades now, since US 'Code', no lie, HJR-192, from 1933.

​@@sirrobinofloxley7156 it always goes in cycle. When AI hype clears off and we get another financial crysis lots of AI companies will go bust. Then when money becomes free again new ones comes out with crazy money burn rate rinse and repeat.

Exactly. It's just waste of time yet an addictive kind of it. You're lured in by the promise of cutting hours of writing/debugging your code, only to waste a day arguing with GPT-4 as it keeps inventing new amazing ways to pass incorrect data to what it just defined or retype 200 LOC without a change while insisting it must now be fixed, all to the tune of 50 USD OpenAI API bills, the product seemingly rewarded for its incompetence. Even if the technology gets to the point of zero human debugging required, code is just an expression of your thinking, and so anything different from your mental model will be just frustrating to deal with. Besides, these models do actually take money, compute and power to run after all, it's honestly a miracle OpenAI hadn't gone bust when they launched ChatGPT. Waiting for an AI to generate its code + 100 attempts to fix it will inevitably be worse than just knowing how to implement it yourself.

​@@upolpi3171But if it gets to the point where no human debugging is needed, then there'd be no need for a human to judge the readability of the generated code. Eventually most code would be AI generated. Which is probably what will happen if AI keeps evolving.

@@LeoVital We don't know when exactly will that happen. I don't believe we will see AGI level smarts any time soon. Because we still use the same AI generative model fundamentally (transformers) for years, all the progress for now hinges on making it bigger and/or feeding it refined learning data. We'd need a fundamental breakthrough to move forward.

Hype and BS and always will be. AGI is impossible. Consciousness is not a result of a "meat computer". The entire thing is an abomination along the lines of transhumanism. It's shaping up to be very anti-Christ these days. I tried ChatGPT long ago when it was hyped up. Turns out, it is doing what I did as a child when I took a 2 paragraph long World Book encyclopedia article and turned it into a 2 page long double-spaced research paper. These things that consume their own content into some sort of probability model to regurgitate it as a fluff piece suffer the same fate as a society of genetic inbreds. Who ever would have thought that computers should operate in a non-deterministic way and that such a thing should be glorified? All of these AI company flimflams are following the same pattern as all hype salesmen. The real threat of machine learning is when it is coupled with big-data collection and correlation analysis on a level that allows it even to predict the future behavior of an individual and groups of individuals and entire societies. And from that, manipulate events and stimuli to predictably force that behavior along a certain path. A sort of "universal control" over the chaos theory known as the "butterfly effect". But make no mistake, no "AGI" will be controlling those levers of manipulation. It will be those taken with the spirit of the father of lies, that old devil itself, that will be (are) controlling those levers.

​@@alexxx4434finally someone that gets it, I laughed so much this entire AI revolution wave and there are so many people actually thinking AI will replace most jobs within next 5 years 😂😂😂. Then there's me studying LLMs and playing with them long before gpt was so hyped, knowing that the only advancement is the insane pollution rate and water usage to power basically giant computing infrastructures for the larger Models, also theres really not so much more data left to trai the models on so probably the next updates will mostly focus on trying to reduce the HLL rate.

Agree 100%. I’m by no means a programmer but in my beginner python class we just had a final where we could use ChatGPT. It allowed me to do some very cool things, but it couldn’t go too far ahead.

for now

AI is usefull to get the basic stupid shit out of the way and done. Helps you get into actually programming, and less on getting stuck on braindead soydev complications in your environment

I like to explain my use of AI like this... I don't want to write out this basic code I've written 10,000 times... do it for me.

​@@eldopranoAnd probably for a while. Or at least, the world will continue to need problem solvers. Having a better understanding of the problem will never be a disadvantage.

You’re in a really good position. There will be a shortage of programmers.

We will always need people that actually understand the output that can fix it when it goes wrong

Time to become.. an architect…

​@@primalplasma No there won't, it's already insanely saturated beyond belief

@@Elijah-fc3ex You're thinking of juniors with 0 - 1 years of experience. That market is saturated, especially on the front end. Programmers with a few years of experience are super high in demand.

And this is how the largest part of all code will look like when AI takes over.

yep, it hardly helps with snippets and codium-ai with some start tests i reap the benefits tho

6) While Ai may generate code for certain projects, Ai systems need to be programmed, maintenanced and controlled themselves if we don't want to lose control to ai 7) To keep projects larger than a few thousand lines of code running, you still need humans that can find solutions to unforseen problems, because as everyone who has already worked with chatgpt knows, once it arrives at a stalemate, it doesn't get further no matter how long it tries, because it can't think on itself and be creative

Thank you for this comment.

8) As soon as you start using AI to generate code (as opposed to using it to autocomplete boiler plate or asking it questions), you stop learning. Any lazy programmer who enters requirements and lets AI write the code is getting progressively dumber.

Point 2 irrelevant point 3 weird take when ai gets better everyday and no less jobs no need to have a Team if 1 can fix it 4 ? Irrelevant?? 5 will never really happen

or it keeps adding stupid comments, like I dont want more comments lol

It's try to get you to believe in yourself.

oh yeah, VS is terrible that way, you make three similar changes and the next place you stick your mouse the entire screen is covered up with flashy suggesting that you can barely read the code. And just one touch of "tab" and you've accidentally broken stuff.

they are unbelievable useful, you just haven't learned to leverage them correctly

I’ll believe it’s useful when it’s suggestions actually add ending quotes and properly close methods…

It just helps me to type code faster and I have to look up documentation less often. But these two things were never a major problem in the first place. It is completely useless with problem solving. It even messes up the easiest things if it works with novel code e.g. casting 16 bit values to 8 bit because the API for file access wanted byte values ...

I agree about productivity. Quite often Copilot stands on the way. I need to turn it off sometimes.

AI Assistants don't seem particularly useful in tight enterprises projects, where the knowledge is lesser known/public. I stopped even bothering asking ChatGPT about azure pipelines, bash, how to manage a big eventhub application, etc. That information seemply doesn't reach public internet for AIs to even get it.

Perhaps for web development and other more mainstream coding situations may be useful, but it certainly can't replace anyone too soon.

exponential progress always seems magical. though 5 years seems optimistic. it really depends on how easy it is to integrate a test -> correct loop. if ai tools actually do that reliably, companies might actually start firing the people they dont need

Maybe this is AI's plan for us. Gaslight us out of the field. Generally speaking, that's a pretty intelligent defense strategy is all I'm saying.

Nah I disagree. AI will have more knowledge than any of that and will be better than anyone in those domains.

@@vectoralphaAI Can't beat me, I'm 1 in a 10 prodigy.

@@Caellyan lol AI would be smarter than that by this time next year.

In nature exponential curves typically become sigmoids. Yeah theoretically AI will become digital god if it keeps developing at this rate but it WONT keep developing at this rate. I’d argue we’re already seeing the limits of it

lol true, the industry is too competitive rn

everyone reading this stop coding. pay me to code for you instead

CS is overrated af

@@abnormal010 Why go college to learn something that could be learnt for free, lol.

@@3than3rickson it's not competitive, it's ten times as many 1X programmer and maybe 10% more 10X programmer, if you're not 10X you should be doing another job instead of slapping together framework code found on stackoverflow :D

Zzzzzz Are you stupid, the ai can purge all programers

But AI can learn and improve on its own. A finely tuned AI for a very specific task can be a threat imo

Sure, on an individual basis, it’s a tool that helps you build stuff faster. So, same work, less man hours. You see what that means on a larger scale, right? It’s naive to think this won’t have an impact on jobs.

​@@_ash64"improve on its own" is not happening, atm atleast

I think what you aren't realizing is yes, we still need engineers and architects to make the big decisions, but you don't need a team of developers to work on Jira ticket tasks anymore. You have to be incredible naive to believe this isn't going to impact jobs.

I love that. I'm not a programmer, I'm a designer. I used to know some HTML back in the day, but that doesn't count lol. I am so excited about AI programming. I love to create things, but my brain isn't wired to write code. I still like to solve problems though. Maybe it's the ADHD, but I can't stand the thought of just sitting down and writing code from scratch. Brutal. Where's the joy in typing out a line of code that you've typed before - boring! I very much prefer trying to understand someone else's code (or AI's code) and altering it to fit my need. With AI, I never feel 'stuck' - I just need to think a little harder about the right question to ask the AI. I'm excited about what possibilities AI programming will unlock.

Sadly not a good time for this. Except if its around AI.

save yourself time and go in healthcare, will never have to worry about job security, plus you wont need to be a slave to learning all your life things that changes every year ;)

Stay flexible, you're young and still have tons of options.

Do what you love and you’ll never work another day in your life. Do you love programming?

Incorrect, AI doctors are already outperforming real doctors with diagnoses ​@@dan-cj1rr

Please hurry, need that Django thingymebob pronto 3:57

Thank you kind over lord for blessing us with your presence

Mr AI Agent... What is taking you so long....

HOW DO I DISABLE TAB AUTOCOMPLETING TABNINE INSTEAD OF INTELLISENSE PLSSS

Yeah the job market for seniors will always auto-balance out. If there are too few seniors companies will hire juniors which become seniors. If there are too many seniors companies stop hiring juniors meaning that there are less seniors in the future. Could be bad time for an aspiring junior dev though.

What are you doin here porcay

Seni burada görmeyi beklemiyordum reis

Syntax highlighting? Absolutely degenerate.

Just started testing it a few days ago. I am getting mad amounts of bugs and features that are just not there yet. E.g. my Ctrl+Z after letting the AI generate a function won't revert what was generated but rather skip back and forth between the AI window, the prompt, and pieces of code. What has been your experience so far with the WIP of cursor?

I love cursor for reading code mostly. Top notch to find root cause of bugs in legacy code, when the previous developers ran away when it's was still time

I love Cursor for bugs or to help me when I get stuck.

@@emilrueh I didn't get a bug like that I think, or maybe never pressed Ctrl+Z after generating lol. Sometimes the "diff highlight" would get stuck but that was just visual glitch.

@@emilrueh Click "reject", done. Or reject single changes you don't like, and click "accept" at the end. No rocket surgery.

You wont need to know any code to use these tools soon... that being said yes i think programmers will be even more valuable at leas tin the short term

why do you think so that programmers will be more valuable in the short term?@@eamonshields2754

You cant copyright ai generated code. Its already been tested in court. Be careful planning a whole future based on telling AI to make you stuff that others can just take on you.

as just a normal person without absolutely no knowledge of coding i might as well be looking at mandarin

@@geroutathat Why would you need to copyright AI code? Your competitors can just create the same product with their AI.

It's because most 'programmers' write the same CRUD apps over and over again for the last 20 years and patting themselves on the back and getting paid too much to do it and they see the gravy train coming to a halt 😂

Absolutely!

Maybe its cause people who use Prebuilt frameworks and sdk to build apps call themselves programmers now.

@@3xpl0i79 You can't get away from frameworks, SDK, or libraries as a programmer. You build on top of what other people have built for you.

@@3xpl0i79 this exactly. anything well confined and unoriginal is doomed. the joy is in creating new things that make sense and ai cannot do that.

Same

yeah keep telling yourself that

Wishful thinking.

Agree... We just have to adapt... Kinda of hard to do though when the future and it's implementation looks so hazy at this point

I like turtles

me 2@@lolwut1431

Yeah exactly my thoughts fucking hell thanks for convincing me there are sentient ppl in this comment section. I used the "automation in manufacturing" as my main point in every "AI is taking over jobs and that's bad" convo.

We are already seeing it, with the glutton of graduates and juniors looking for a job that doesn't exist. Every company I talk to (I'm in an agency with 20 major clients) is endlessly talking about AI, and finding ways to leverage it. If we can get big projects done in less time, yeah, team sizes are going to shrink. Just like farmers can produce more food with far less farmers than there used to be, the future is we can program with far less people to do even more work than a full size team currently is capable of.

Aerospace engineering is awesome and way better than software engineering.

@@vectoralphaAI with my interests considered I def agree, only down side is since it requires a real engineering degree the courseload is so much worse than computer science 😭

Haha I'm happy as a computer scientist, can you imagine how many people like you have second thoughts or already went ahead and quit

@@lifebyvikk6751 Oh yea I bet. I've had second thoughts almost since the start of majoring in cs, heard so much about people landing high salaries with no degree, just projects and actual technical knowledge. that and the fact that there are many SWEs have non related stem degrees is what ultimately made me make the switch over

I could not agree more. If AI were to do that it would be game changing. It would likely involve a complex system of telepathy where the AI would need to read the clients mind and translate it to a familiar language but it’s not too far out of reach. It would have one simple goal, to answer a question. What do you want?

The ai programming assistant is making programming easier for the developers. It means we are going to see a 100 fold increase in coding out put. We are going to see programming penetrating into areas of industry not seen before.

and because the app you replicate was written in AI, you're not breaking any copyright laws, neither will anyone be when they copy your app written with AI. Then 10 years down the road, some guy whose code ended up in everyones app, but he wrote it himself, will just sue everyone.

docstring programming ??

True

But AI is self learning and improves at an unprecedented rate. That's dangerous.

@@_ash64we doomed anyway

@@_ash64Life is dangerous

I always think about this. no matter how advanced technology gets in general. there will always be need for humans one way or another

​@@ichoosemeimsorryelevators

A ways off is still 5 years or within this decade though.

@@vectoralphaAI very possibly. AI is growing rapidly, and the speed at which it grows will only increase since AI will be able to assist in its own evolution. There are still some serious hardware limitations though that may slow down AGI development. You can see that with Gemini Ultra. It's more advanced than ChatGPT 4, but it requires an enormous system, and isn't scalable. There are hardware solutions on the horizon to address these types of problems, but hardware is always slower to develop than software. My guess as to when we will achieve AGI (taking hardware into consideration) is probably within the next decade or two.

@@BruceWayne15325 It's impossible to predict when AGI will show up because we still have no idea what intelligence, consciousness, and thinking actually is and how it happens. Best we can do is glorified text completion integrated into gigantic data sets and tons of apis. AGI could be tomorrow, could be in a decade, could be never. We simply have no idea how to even get started on something like that. It's theoretically possible since a brain is just a meat machine, but we're decades away from being able to map a human brain and simulate it at any reasonable rate to actually research how it works.

​@@BruceWayne15325​​ there was an interview with the maybe now ex not sure chief scientist at open AI Ilyan Sutskever where he said hardware is not a problem. Also phi 2 seems to show (although I did not try) that you can get fairly good outputs from small models. There is also an interview with host Lex Fridman that talked about how language models have an inefficient way of storing information and it seems like the guest was saying that it could be fixed ( he seemed to be guessing though ) . At the moment it seems to me like GPT 3 and GPT4 are just expensive experiments. It's maybe already amazing that we are already interested in them before people start engineering high quality systems specifically made (and maybe funded) to be a service .

@@BruceWayne15325 The hardware is evolving quick too. The software will be optimized and so will the hardware. The hardware can be stacked together. Our brains will be no match for AI in a few years. Anyone that thinks they are safe in the future, are not zooming out enough. I'm rearranging my career to profit as much as possible to be safe when the industry collapses.

> if it didn't have to do "retrieval augmented generation" it can't. Due to token size limitations and due to it being "just 10$". The cost per token is insane per every prompt you do, you'd run bankrupt mega fast if you did this with whole project. but RAG can still solve quite a huge scope of problem by itself without being a limiting factor, because there is quite a lot of parameters you can implicitly fiddle with using your prompt in the chat

It just needs a button to press to fine tune it on your whole project. Then it should fine tune itself as things change.

For now it won't, how many years until that changes though?

@@JackCrossSamaComments like this just show a lack of understanding with what a programmers actual job is.

Just learn PHP, even AI won’t want to write that.

Anything you need to cope. People really think a company with 2000 programmers going to 20 programmers isnt "replacing". fml.

if ur IQ is too low you will probably be replaced

Way better than copilot

Cursor is amazing

​@@mattb925 The reality is that almost all of the work done in IT is _already_ duplicate work. When a problem is solved in computer science, it is often the case that that solution can also solve a bunch of other problems. It's just a matter of realizing when this is the case instead of reinventing the same wheel every time. Most of the code that people write is either garbage, which we'll ignore because it's garbage, or end up being a combination of existing components. Each component having been independently written by many developers before, and will be rewritten/rediscovered for a long time to come. Package managers like NPM were meant to help solve this problem, but only succeeded for big components. One of the reasons is that you might not realize what you're reinventing until you're halfway done. In any case though, there's a lot of money to be made in identifying such reuse and creating tools that either get developers through those bits faster, or cuts out the developer entirely. AI code assistants are rapidly getting better at the prior, with Squarespace being a good example of the latter. And I believe the territory of such tools will only grow, and will be massively boosted by AI.

how will you get new senior devs when you don't have current junior devs

@@oksowhat Was just about to ask this lol. I guess this would mean in his scenario that he believes this might be the last generation of programmers. I'm not sure

@@oksowhat As I described, I predict that junior devs with the assistance of AI tools won't need to be supervised by senior devs as much as they do now. It won't stop junior devs from having a job, just means they'll be learning from the tools rather than other devs.

​​@@oksowhatsame as big companies have always done. Wait for small companies to hire fresh grads with no experience and give them senior level responsibilities with junior level wages and see if they can teach themselves. Once they have the skillset of a senior level dev, swoop in with the big $$

wait. Your juniors are *actually* helpful?

In the case of the guy in the video it's not a trick to reduce the competition it's a lie to sell a product.

"every crisis is also a new opportunity", for a minority of people, the majority suffers from a crisis, that's the point of it

@@eliasp.2759 of course, but that’s because most people don’t think about crisis as new opportunities. Survival has and always will be about adaptation in evolving circumstances.

@@eliasp.2759 Exactly. Due to biases people tend to think that they are not going to be a part of the majority, they always envision themselves as the exception to the rule. I guess it's a similar error in rational thinking to the one that makes people waste their money on lottery tickets just because they keep hearing about that one guy in 50 million that won a billion.

AI is pretty good at writing tests tough

​@@mark0z479 Very good actually

Nah. Ultimately a programmer will be just a person who promps a computer to build something and the AI writes all the code itself create it.

​@@vectoralphaAIbut it'll break or it won't be the way it's supposed to be and AI will not be able to fix it or even tell what's wrong (or even tell that something's wrong) because it's AI and not a person, it can't think and it just writes data it's been trained on

@@fres621 It can "think" to an extent, but yes, sometimes it is never able to figure out the problem without you explicitly telling you it. However, there could be ways to automate this process and prompt engineer it better. Either way, until continual learning is a thing (that is, continually training the model every day on new code written to the repo) it will never be more than it is now.

Complex? It falls apart on anything non-trivial.

Besides, you gotta customize it yourself. You gotta make improvements that it does not think to make like avoiding memory fragmentation or context switching. There are a lot of things that it doesn't think of even though it know a lot about them.

@@SylvanFeanturi What many devs consider trivial is probably very hard work for your average "insert a JS framework" code monkey.

That already happened in 2022. The market is saturated from the economy bloat from 2020. The only people left to cut are people in super lucrative fields, seniors, skilled devs, or those in companies who are super slow to change/ adapt + deal with legacy shit.

I'm a programmer and I'm not depressed, I'm excited. Those who will get left behind are those who will refuse to learn how to use these tools.

@@superslayerguy Do you think you can keep ahead of a computer program for long? Just as how web devs are getting replaced, you too will get replaced.

Yep nothing quite like a dose of pessimism before bed about how my job is obsolete in 5 years because anyone with a 6 month bootcamp can do the exact same thing I can do now.

We all doomed🤣

@@worldbosspf1 There's no quantum computer on Earth powerful enough to keep up with the latest JavaScript frameworks. No AI can ever compute that.

CS people will be eating good actually. It's the low exp bootcamp people that are worried

If there are no juniors, then later there will be no seniors :)

​@@ensider6375Isnt it already like this with Tech job only hire Senior Dev nowaday?

Perhaps more responsability will be put on the academies. Serious degrees might make a comeback with of course less schools able to deliver theme.

And like usual, the working class will be the ones to bear the brunt of job cuts.

If there are no more juniors then when the current senior devs retire no one will be at the company and the business will just collapse or be 100% programmer free.

The real advance over the next decade is that these ai tools are going to increase programmers out put.

It is just like classic ai robots... obedient, conformist, uncreative, and amazingly helpful. I appreciate not having to burn cycles mentally parsing logs and odd bits of code, and having a much lower cost when context switching. I agree it won't replace a single engineer but it will replace a lot of entry level programmers.

Yes, asking the right questions is key and that's not going to change. I strongly disagree that the quality will go down though. As methods of using the current data gets better, the synthetic data gets better and creates a flywheel of improvement without needing tons more fully human made data. That's how OpenAI went from GPT-3.5 to GPT-4 and it will be how they get to GPT-4.5 and so on. We'll see I guess, but I certainly wouldn't put my money on AI getting worse...

@@joethompson9124 You are surely right, that the processing of data will improve. But I think more of the information that lies within the data itself. To me intelligence is about new research and new discoveries leading to a new understanding of the world. Like finding the law of gravity and being able to build an airplane as a result. So far I think, that AI can´t really discover new things. It cannot find new laws of nature and make use of it - just by mixing and combining already found ones. However if it can - we´re screwed. :D

@@FinancllyFreeMusician I agree. AI is a great "remix machine" and I think it may aid humans in making new discoveries, but it's not going to just spit out some grand new theory that just perfectly works out of the box (maybe possible I guess, like hitting the lottery and being struck by lightning in the same day). With it's remixing ability, AI is great at being creative and diverging on ideas. But it needs a lot of help from a human to produce anything worthwhile. It might spit out something interesting that inspires a human to look in a certain direction or something like that. I think people are overestimating the ability of AI to work completely autonomously. In my opinion, people will always need to be involved to ask the right questions and make important decisions. It will shake things up and make many things that used to be difficult, much more frictionless though. Also, Tesla's humanoid robot is coming for manual labor too, so there goes my backup plan lol.

@@joethompson9124 Yes, you´re right. It can provide a new spark for a thinking individual to come up with something new and great. I figured that many folks outside of programming don´t use it at all and so far I don´t know whether that's good or not. Because for some fellow programmers of mine, ChatGPT became the ultimate source of truth. Like: "I don´t know what this is about, I´ll aks ChatGPT with a (not so good) prompt, get an answer (which is wrong) and take that for granted." Normal people will fall into this trap much deeper I fear.

garbage in, garbage out - and there is ALOT of garbage going in.