Beginners guide to B&W tube TV part 18 (Magnetics - Ion trap, focus and yoke coils)

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bandersentv

bandersentv

3 місяці тому

All about the magnetic devices around the CRT and how to adjust them.
* Ion trap magnet
* Focus coil
* Deflection yoke
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КОМЕНТАРІ: 36
@tennesseered586
@tennesseered586 2 місяці тому
You just quadrupled my knowledge of ion traps and pattern alignment, all in half an hour. Thanks, Bob.
@Nermash
@Nermash 2 місяці тому
Great series, there is just something magic in old tv sets.
@billharris6886
@billharris6886 2 місяці тому
Hi Bob, thanks for explaining the Ion Trap Magnet, I didn't realize it was to prevent the brown spot. My first TV was an RCA 21" with the KCS88 chassis. In 1972, my brother and I brought it home from the dump and I fixed it so we could have a TV in our joint bedroom. (For a kid, this was considered a premium luxury at that time). It had the ion trap magnet and a series of 3 permanent magnets in an adjustable collar forming the focus magnet. The ion trap magnet had a very narrow sweet spot. The centering rings, aluminized CRT, and electrostatic focus on the later B&W CRTs made things SO MUCH easier! It was a bit confusing at first going to Color CRTs since the centering rings were used to set the Purity. I agree with the magnetic field problems upsetting the electron beam plus, it interfering with the CRT shadow mask. Those round 19" color CRTs without a built-in deguasser were super sensitive to the least little thing. I remember working with the customer to figure out where they wanted the TV in their room, then I did the color setup process on the CRT.
@leecrt967
@leecrt967 2 місяці тому
That was very, very good. Super informative. And this veteran gleaned some newfound info as well. Thoroughly enjoyable. Thank You, Bob.
@greggsvintageworkshop8974
@greggsvintageworkshop8974 2 місяці тому
EXCELLENT video Bob! I just removed all of this to clean up the Picture tube and was very careful to photograph and document the positioning of all three devices. I even counted exposed threads on the yoke coil mounting screws/nuts to the focus coil. Now that you've presented this, it makes perfect sense and, should I be lucky enough to get any life out of the T1401, I might be able to make proper adjustments to these components. Thank you!
@PracticallyFixed
@PracticallyFixed 2 місяці тому
Another great video! Very interesting and instructive. The demonstration of the adjustments in real time is invaluable. Thank you.
@erin19030
@erin19030 2 місяці тому
in the time of tube TV a static distortion pattern would appear on the right and left sides of the CRT tearing up the picture vertically. it was a high voltage parasitic oscillation. The field cure was placing and adjusting a small Ion trap assembly in the middle of the HOT tube. I learned about Monochrome Television thru RETS electronics Technical School in a formal classroom setting. In the afternoon we would go to the TV lab to work on old Motorola chassis. I learned the basics there. It was in the shop and field as an apprentice that I was taught all you are teaching here. I spent 20 years in TV and Radio repair, then taught classes at night for Sylvania Technical School. I no longer delve in TV service and I find it interesting that now it is a full time hobby and business. Keep up the good work !
@ko2fjb
@ko2fjb 2 місяці тому
This series with your explanations is awesome. Thank you.
@JohnnyUmphress
@JohnnyUmphress 2 місяці тому
Very interesting. I never knew that a misadjusted ion trap could destroy the CRT.
@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648
@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 2 місяці тому
Yeh... it won't trap ions like it is supposed to (or rather, as our knowledgeable host pointed out, it redirects cathode electrons at metal parts of the electron gun, creating more ions through this bombardment which launched at the screen in the electric field inside the CRT, damaging it and defeating the very purpose of the trap). Newer sets and some replacement CRTs had aluminized coating on the back of the phosphor, which made the screen impervious to ion damage and no more ion trap was needed. From a physics point of view, I'd think these ions were negative, i.e. had a surplus of electrons. Positive ions would bombard the cathode, perhaps spoiling it over time, perhaps building up material that creates short circuits between the cathode and adjacent electrodes (or maybe, the heater?)
@mikefinn2101
@mikefinn2101 2 місяці тому
Bob super great video nice series learning so much and so helpful so glad to watch a few times to learn all I can, but really enjoy your channel My favorite. Always waiting for each new one and watch some re runs. Many thanks Mike
@monadking2761
@monadking2761 2 місяці тому
Nice job. We just called them cathode guns. We used to have Hawkeye regun our tubes on ours. We used to rebuild 10-15 monitors each week since I worked in a major satellite broadcast studio maintenance department. Later, color sets, but our jobs were eliminated slowly to flat screens then LCDs. The big problem was sometimes the speakers in the cabinets of monitors and EMI from the HV leaking into audio in edit rooms. I learned electronics in the 60s and 70s and worked on Tek 445 and Hp scopes when i worked in metrology my early days. What memories you just brought back. It makes so much sense hearing what you said.
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was able to get just one CRT rebuilt by Hawkeye before they closed down for good.
@khester7397
@khester7397 2 місяці тому
This is excellent. Keep doing these videos.
@dougbrowning82
@dougbrowning82 2 місяці тому
Some tubes also had a beam shaping magnet, which could adjust the shape of the electron beam, to help create a sharper picture.
@khester7397
@khester7397 2 місяці тому
How do you know all this stuff so well? Is this just a passion? Or has it been your profession as well? Very, very cool.
@andydelle4509
@andydelle4509 2 місяці тому
Sony used to supply a bag of self adhesive magnetic strips to attach to the CRT bell for ultra precise convergence on their broadcast grade monitors. You used them as the last steps. In reality I don't many people did! Note that Sony broadcast grade CRTs were plain old consumer tubes. They were just hand picked for the best parameters.
@eDoc2020
@eDoc2020 2 місяці тому
There's a trick which should help with initial positioning of the ion trap magnet: The electron gun assembly should have two "flags" and the black-covered support of the magnet should be lined up with these. This was taken from the Emerson 571 factory manual.
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
Really depends on the manufacturer and whether it's been rebuilt
@cool69rr
@cool69rr 2 місяці тому
When and how did they get rid of the ion trap on CRTs? My 1955 RCA has a replacement CRT from 1965 with no ion trap.
@hughgilbert390
@hughgilbert390 2 місяці тому
In the early 50's aluminized screens were developed. The aluminum blocked the ions, reflected more light out the front, and provided a better return path for the electrons. All of which gave a much brighter clearer picture.
@bigaudioal
@bigaudioal 2 місяці тому
How did aluminized CRTs effect needing an ion trap magnet?
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
They completely eliminate the need for a trap. They vacuum deposit a thin later of aluminum over the backside of the phosphor to protect it. Electrons still do their thing, but ions are blocked
@bigaudioal
@bigaudioal 2 місяці тому
@@bandersentv I knew the aluminized CRT eliminated the ion trap magnet, but did not know exactly why. Thanks Bob!
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 2 місяці тому
Great informative video. How strong or detectable is the single magnet type ion trap strength supposed to be? ie. will it noticeably draw a screwdriver tip to it? I restored an Admiral 20X122 with 10BP4 with a single pole ion trap magnet and the magnet has zero detectable magnetism. I have not been able to find a replacement single magnet type. The set does produce a picture and the magnet does affect the brightness a little (but not like in your demonstration) so there must be some magnetism remaining, however the brightness is rather low. No burns on CRT. No geometry or focus issues. Can a double magnet ever replace a single magnet? -Erik
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
10BP4 normally uses a double magnet. No, you have to use the right type. Yes, a screwdriver will stick. This datasheet says 33 Gauss dual type. frank.pocnet.net/sheets/093/1/10BP4A.pdf
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 2 місяці тому
@@bandersentv thank you for the reply. I was mistaken, forgot that I actually do have the double magnet installed (and had tried the single magnet as well with no luck confirming what you said) but my double magnet is very weak. Does not attract a screwdriver tip. Would you happen to have a double magnet type to sell? -Erik
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
@@EriksElectronicsWorkbench No, but look around on ebay. Have you tried flipping it around? If it is blue/black, the black magnet goes towards the base.
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench
@EriksElectronicsWorkbench 2 місяці тому
@@bandersentv I will keep watching eBay. Also will double check the orientation but yes I did try it both ways at one point. Thanks for confirming the orientation. It is blue/black markings.
@eDoc2020
@eDoc2020 2 місяці тому
@@bandersentv My Emerson uses a single magnet on the 10BP4 and it works fine. I'm not sure the magnet is original but the tube definitely is. This means one of three things must be true: 1. Standard single and double magnets are interchangeable 2. Some differently-made magnets are interchangeable with the other type 3. The RCA factory made a mistake and installed the wrong neck when assembling the tube Have you ever actually tried using the wrong type of magnet? It would be interesting to see what would happen. Also for this series it might be helpful to show what happens if the magnet is installed backwards.
@khester7397
@khester7397 2 місяці тому
What's with your calibration grid? Is it hand drawn? Or are the lines not straight because of some imperfection in the shape of the CRT?
@bandersentv
@bandersentv 2 місяці тому
I'm using a Sencore VG91 solid state test pattern generator from the 1990s. Very stable signal. TV is very early post war. Lots of imperfections - CRT glass, yoke windings, deflection circuits. Power supply isn't even regulated. It's all about compromise
@khester7397
@khester7397 2 місяці тому
​@bandersentv Thanks for the answer!
@rleeAZ
@rleeAZ 2 місяці тому
Wonder if that metal "service aid" mirror might not be completely flat, and distorting the perceived geometry.
@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648
@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 2 місяці тому
@@rleeAZ It didn't look that bad in the video. I always used flat glass mirrors in the day, however (summer and side jobs while studying electrical engineering in college). They were simply easier to get, and I don't remember busting any. The circle is electronically generated and should be very precise. It amazes me how even these old sets had deflection circuits tunable with as good linearity as they were, with everything analog. A single strayed component value could make the image quite wonky. These circuits are surely the main reason it's not perfect. I remember the mid-late tube color TVs, whose vertical deflection circuits were fed from a boost which in turn was tightly tied to the high voltage regulation. They had very precise geometry.
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