I've covered everything I know about belt drive in this video! Here are some gearboxes you can now pair with belts: 🍒 $199 Shimano Alfine hub video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/qZZqqHyBfY6HlqM.html 🍑 Rohloff Hub vs Pinion Gearbox video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/j4-ZrGqNcKOK1qs.html 🍌 Effigear Gearbox video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/fmBplnp5gm2GmHU.html 🍍New Gearbox Drivetrains for 2023 video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/qKmWgXiCgYKluH0.html

I'm a mechanical engineer that designs engines. Belts are useful for all sorts of stuff, but chain drives have their place. Almost all the disadvantages of conventional roller chains are obviated by using O-ring or X-ring chains, whilst retaining basically all of the upsides. Roller chains last so much longer in cars because they are inside the engine, bathed in clean lubricating oil, and sealed from the outside.

I think a lot of us would happily use belts (I certainly would) it's just that gearboxes are jolly expensive, and rare for frame integration (and heavy for people who care about that) My entire microshift clutch drivetrain (shifter, cassette, derailleur, chain), was £80 on sale, ya can't really beat that until gearboxes become mainstream

Your first video was enough to convince me to design an ebike for Canadian cities based around the belt drive Our company is a year and a half old now and selling bikes like crazy Thank you for your in-depth sharing. The belt-driven ebike is such an amazing transportation tool that you never have to think about

I had a nexus chain on a cargo bike for more than 20 000km and it was under 0.5% of wear. Lubed once. The secret ingredient is full chaincase that prevent anything to touch the chain. That decrease the incentive to use a belt on any bike that can fit a case for the chain.

On my 3rd year of my first belt drive thanks to you, Alee. Thanks for the good advice, I have never regretted the change.

Had belts on Rohloffs and Pinion since 2012 and would not go back. If you are wanting a reliable and straight forward method of getting from A to B with zero fuss you can’t beat gearboxes and belts. Marketing makes people think they need the same technology as used in races when in reality they need something that will just work. Even more relevant in this day and age we need less throw away parts and parts that are going to last. Thank you for another factually correct and unbiased video.

I bought a commuter bike with a belt drive and an Alfine 8 IGH based on your advice and love it. Super reliable with minimal maintenance.

After I disassembled, cleaned and regreased Nexus8 hub with Shimano IGH specific lube and adjusted hub cones I was astonished how small hub drag now is and how much more enjoyable bike became. Pity is that bike companies charging $$$ for their products rarely care to fine tune bikes and just charge like for a set of parts they put together.

I have been riding for more than 6 months now from New York to El Salvador with a Cube belt drive I bought last summer and I didn't have a problem at all. So easy to maintenance.

When I was in Japan in the late 90s, many of the commuter 'mamachari' bicycles had belts. I thought they were so cool. No maintenance. You can leave your bike outside in the rain at the train station and not worry about your chair rusting up.

It's not only the gearboxes that make beltdrives less efficient, it is also the belt itself. A belt is somewhat less efficient than a (well maintained and lubricated) chain.

Thanks for such a great comprehensive video. Recently bought a Priority 600X with Pinion belt drive. Love the technology and can't wait to take it on a few long distance tours this summer. No chain lube and the mess it creates is something I'm looking forward to. Thanks again, Steve

I have been following your channel for a while now. You have helped me so much on my tours and really dialing in my build and kit. I have finally ordered all the parts for my belt drive bike. A Bombtrack Outlaw frame, son dyno, Rohloff a12, and much more. I have an old priority bike and I love it. It, along with your videos, sold me on a belt and I cant get over the sound of a chain/derailleur grind now. Thanks for all your videos and hard work brother.

i switched all my bikes to belts after watching a couple of your vids last couple of years.. and i don't regret my switch.. it's not that i mind maintenance of my bike but good maintenance takes a lot of time. way more then most people do when they talk about maintenance. Thanks for all your vids. Greating from The Netherlands.

I bought a riese&muller ebike with a gates carbon belt drive and an enviolo internal gear hub and I'm never going back to chains and derailleurs again. for my application which is about a 12k ride to and from work in rain,sleet snow and all sorts not having to do any maintenance on the bike outside of changing brake pads once in a while has been a dream come true.

I agree, as i have been working in a Flourmill plant for 29 years and we are using High tension drive belt in running our Rollermill machines. Our belt supplier is Gates. This time now I'm a biker and here in Philippines i have not yet saw a belt drive bike and hope i can get through how to change into a belt drive on my bike.

I drive belts since 6 years as commuter and just love them. You even showed one of it in your video, the Schindelhauer Emil. Belts are elegant, silent, clean and low maintenance.

Love it for trail and enduro MTB!! Shifted to Gates belt + Pinion gearbox after 28 years of chains. Faster on the downhill, not noticable slower on the uphill.

Thank you for going through this. So many questions answered with clear explanations and the experience to back it up.

As a mechanical engineer, I'm very familiar with the advice at 17:54 to avoid backbending of (most) timing belts, since it shortens life. This doesn't just apply to loose belts; it also means that we try to avoid tensioners which bend the belt the "wrong" way. However, it seems that bicycle belt drives often include such tensioners, such as those shown at 2:19, 3:52 and even what appears to be Gates own promo material at 13:24. I checked Gates' Technical Manual, expecting to find a minimum allowable radius for backbend-inducing idler pulley, probably calculated according to belt model, expected load and riding conditions, but here is the whole of the section on "Tensioner & Idler Integration": "Gates Carbon Drive has been working with bicycle manufacturers to properly design and implement idlers into some specific applications. For each application, thorough testing of the drive is completed, and certain parameters need to be met prior to releasing the bike to the market. Our belt handling instructions must still be followed, as backbending belts by hand could cause damage. Idlers that follow our design requirements do not cause belt failures. All idler designs require approval by Gates Carbon Drive engineering team." That's it!

Here in Belgium I just got my first belt drive bike, a Bullitt cargo bike, and now whatever my next normal bike will be, it's gonna be belt drive. With daily commuting and crap Belgian weather, chains are basically permanently dirty or crunchy so I assume at least in the winter, a belt drive will actually end up more efficient for me. Most people don't like doing maintenance either so I see *a lot* of bikes with horrible rusty crunchy chains. I now exclusively recommend disc brake belt drive bikes when someone is talking about buying a new daily commuting bike, especially if it's an e-bike. I honestly don''t really know why expensive chain drive e-bikes even exist anymore.

Great expert subject matter narrative unpacking pros and cons of belt drive bicycles along with all the do’s and don’ts. Although I have personally never owned or ridden a belt drive bicycle, I’m a loyal chain driven cyclist because all the lifelong memories. It seems me “all-in” belt drive comes at a premium because the entire bicycle is basically designed around the belt, it’s certainly highly and best suited for world touring adventures, I most certainly couldn’t see doing that type of cycling using a chain. Thank you for another wonderful informative video ! ❤😊

My belt bike died after only 4 years of city riding. Back sprocket cracked and lost a tooth leading to a belt failure very quickly after the rear sprocket broke. While I continue to be a fan of the Gates Belt Drive due to lower maintenance effort, it is a fact that it is more expensive and less mechanically efficient than chain in the long run. Advantages come at a higher price.

Alee is a star at these videos and his adventures do inspire. I have been trying to get folks I know to try 15,000 steps never mind 15,000km or 150,000km in Alee and Laura’s case.

I wish I have been able to get 10,000km on a belt. I'm on my 3rd belt now due to two belt failures at around 5,000km or less. The belt didn't snap like Ryan Van Duzer's, but the teeth would start to show cracking at the base of the teeth. I tried managing the tension a bit closer, but found that the cogs themselves had gotten so worn that I needed to replace those. The teeth were getting very sharp and I had a rear cog where some of the teeth had completely worn out. I've since upgraded to stainless, so we'll see how that goes. Either way, I will religiously keep a spare belt on any bikepacking trip as the first failure outside of cell service and 30km of singletrack away from the nearest town.

Best cycling vids on UKposts for years now. Keep up the great work you folks do.

Belt manufacturers: "Do not backend!!!" Bike manufacturers: "Check out these brilliant belt tensioners that continuously bend the belt backwards!"

IMO, Internal gear hub + regular chain is good enough for most people. Pricing wise.

I've used a Gates CDX belt drive paired with a Shimano Alfine on an urban bike as a commuter bike for a couple of years. While I generally enjoyed the low maintenence aspect, in the end the belt as well as the plastic rear sprocket has worn out after about 20000 km. And the repair was pretty pricey. On the other hand I've had Campagnolo chains on my road bikes which lasted some 15000 km. You obviously have much more experience with belts than I do but from my anectdotal experience the cost per km wasn't lower with my Gates CDX belt than with a good chain. There is still the benefit of having less maintenance work to do with a belt. But for me personally, being a fast rider ultimately the urban bike was too slow and I bought a gravel bike as a commuter and I am much happier with it.

Compliments - Great video. Thank you for the detailed description of the belt drive down to the depths of belt technology. I would be happy to link your video to interested customers.

I bought a Priority Classic Plus Gotham on their first year of release. (7:26) I rode it a few months, life got hectic, it sat for nearly 1 1/2 years... Went out to it yesterday, pumped the tires up, water wiped down the entire bike to get rid of dust, checked cable adjustments and went off for a short, nearly two mile ride. No chain, no mess, no fuss. Thoroughly impressed. Inspected the belt prior to the ride and saw nothing at all wrong with the belt. Personally like how you fine tune belts - harmonically 🙂So musical Gates is with their app.

I would like to expand on the automotive belts v. Chain. Chains are in a sealed environment and continuously lubricated. Belts are often covered and not completely sealed.

I used to work in R&D for a company that makes these kind of belts, and I rode a concept bike 20 years ago... I can confirm that the drivetrain feels WAY smoother than a chained bike. The one I rode had zero perceptible drivetrain slack/play when starting to apply pressure on the petals. You might not really think about this without experiencing a belt drive, but there is significant amount of it with a chain. That part is great but personally I've never considered building a belt bike myself. I'd only use it for a single speed. But a chain works fine and is cheaper. So.. IMO it's only worth it if the reduction in drivetrain slack is extremely important to you, and you don't mind spending more just to have a bike that's different.

I've known this for years. Glad to see credible accounts saying this. Thank you.

Very useful video in-depth analysis! Thank you for your work.

I like the English Bike's take on having the belt outside the rear drop out so the frame doesn't have to be split to change the belt.

Besides the price, one of my gripes personally with gearboxes is that it's quite a bit more difficult to hook them up with dropbar shifters

My previous full metal bike was a gazelle. I got this bike when I was 13 yo and 40 years later I bought a new Gazelle (alluminum one). In the 40 years I never changed the chain and never did any maintenance on the bike other than tire/tube changes when needed, while using it for most of the ~30 years on a daily basis (the brakes were not very good anymore at the end). My current alluminum Gazelle bike, I still didn't replace the chain after 9 years but more maintenance is needed on the alluminum parts.

I have a Marin Presidio 3 with CDN belt drive and very happy with it so far!

Had a conti belt on my commuter bike. It was pretty noisy, requiring regular cleaning and silicone spray to stay quiet, though I gather the noise was just annoying, not actually affecting anything. Then one day while accelerating from standstill it just snapped in two. Unsurprisingly I changed to a chain. But I'm sure I was just unlucky, and that Gates belts would be better, surely nobody would use them otherwise 😅

Never seen a belt drive bike before.. Very interesting. When i decide its time to long travel by bike i will consider this option

Thank you sir for this video. Haven't heard from you in a while. Look forward to seeing the rest of the Americas ride. Also, hope your mom is doing better.

I had a bike shop for 25 Years. My experiences: Belt drives on bicycles have increased frictional resistance. I was shocked when I tried out 2 very expensive bikes in the bike store and thought the drive of the bikes was faulty, the belt had such high resistance. When you turned the cranks, they stopped immediately. I also want a very light bike and love derailleur gears. If you change the chain when it's only half worn out, you can ride 10,000 km with the same sprockets and have very low follow-up costs compared to the belt drive and get spare parts all over the world, don't need a special frame and don't have higher friction in the hub. In cars or motorcycles, the increased resistance does not come into play as much because of the engine. Thanks.

I still prefer a timing belt over a chain. It's easy to replace a bad timing belt. It's a pain in the ass to do the chain, which is usually integrated into the engine to share lubrication with the cylinders. This also means as the chain wears, its metal affects the cylinders and as the cylinders wear, their metal affects the chain. Most of it is handled by the filter, but still, a lot of grinding metal. Additionally, that's why it lasts "longer" than a timing belt. The belt in an automobile is exposed, or just barely covered, much like a bicycle. A timing chain is hidden away in the engine and drenched in oil. On a bicycle, the chain is exposed and only dry lubed, so it's definitely not going to last as long as a timing chain dripping in lubricant and protected by a filter.

I also have never had anyone cut my belt, but curious people love to grab it and twist it around sideways. This has never directly lead to breaking a belt but possibly could have contributed to a short lifespan for it, as the manual specifically advises against it.

Thanks for another informative video, and article. Goodonya mate. Love your content.

Great Video. My older bike has the cheap one Gates belt. 12000km and 6 years. Bike feels like new. Maintance: I've set up the tension after 2000km. It tooks 10 minutes. I also like belts.

I'm not even a cyclist. I just watched it all as I'm interested in technology and engineering. I can certainly envision belts becoming more commonplace in the future, especially with newer technologies like high entropy steels on the horizon. Maybe I'll even find my next motorbike to have a belt.

Very informative video, thanks Alee! I did not expect gear hubs to be (slightly) more efficient than gearboxes...they're probably still lighter, too? I've been lusting for a gearbox bike mostly for the better weight distribution, but given I don't do downhill mountain biking or anything that extreme, gear hubs are probably still the best option for me. Way more affordable, too.

I have a Bulls ebike with a belt drive and I love it. I recently got a squeak in my belt and have tried a couple of thing to no avail. Your suggestion about Treadmill Lubricant is well timed and I recently ordered a bottle. I’ll let you know 😊

It's a lovely day when Alee uploads a long, nerdy video on drivetrains😅😅😊😊

i am used to a "well balanced" front and rear gear option, front 3, but i only use two, and the rear full spectrum, so if they will make a version of this, with a front two step gearbox and rear 7-9 step eqvivalent numbers of ratios, and it wont cost absurdly more, then i will jump over to this..

I'm currently at 38,000 K on my Co-Motion Americano rohlof with original belt CDX. The Chain ring is starting to get "sharp teeth" the rear sprocket is showing almost no wear. I do keep the tension lower than recommended by Gates as I have found that recommended tension is not needed. I carry a spare belt just in case as its pretty light and gives peace of mind. The only issue i have had is occasional squeaky noise after riding in dry dust conditions. Road up the Dempster and ITH to Tuktoyaktuk last summer including two days with rain which In my opinion is a proper test. The belt did fine...the shifter cables....well they got progressively harder to shift as the grit built up. Thanks for your videos.

Belt drive single speed fixed gear is such a pleasure. Almost no maintenance required and so quiet

I love my CDX belt with my Rohloff Speedhub. Both going strong in my cargobike 💪

I have 10,000+ miles on a belt drive single speed the 'ace of spades' geared 55/19 or 2.89. It doesn't have the gearbox issue so I'm pretty sure it's just as efficient and fast as a chain drivetrain. I do 20+mph average rides, and can hit 22 or 23mph on a flat. IMO if you live in a really flat area, a belt-drive single speed is kind of a perfect bike.

Chains on cars and motorcycles are usually used in applications that are sealed from elements (e.g. camshaft timing chain) and therefore also can have their lubrication happen in isolation of the elements. This is their "optimal operating conditions", hence why they perform and last longer than belts. On bikes however chains are subject to the elements, which is where belts operate better because the elements mess up the lubrication over time and require more maintenance than belts.

I have a belt drive bike. Plastic rear sprocket lasted less than 12 months before shattering. Replaced with a metal one. Never had an issue since.

the internal hub shifters are like 300-900 dollars each the Pinion Gearbox at the pedal is north of one grand so unless you intend to use a single speed bike you have to add that cost to the drive train

I wonder that downside of bike shops not having them would apply for my situation here in the Netherlands. My recent purchase has a belt drive with an automatic enviolo gear hub thingy, but if I'd have to guess about 10-20% of the bicycles they had in the store for sale were equipped with a belt. But the focus on bicycle sales here is typically less focused on sport activities and more on practical everyday activities. The ones set up with a derailleur will be in the minority, I'd guess at least 75% in the typical store will have some kind of internal gear hub. I knew what to expect based on the test ride, but once I finally got it after a long waiting period it was very surprising once I got out of the town. I wasn't used to an ebike motor being so noticeable when in a quiet environment, but once I disabled the assistance it was pretty clear that's just the lack of a chain making sound. Since the old ebike (45nm Bosch mid motor, 7 speed shimano nexus and a regular old chain drive) is still in the family with my parents I'm rather tempted to measure the noise both produce with and without assistance to get an objective idea. The gearbox I picked while convenient does feel like it's a bit less efficient as it takes more effort to maintain a high speed without assistance. The wider and heavier frame, wider pannier bags and Bosch performance line mid drive motor + battery probably don't help this no assistance performance observation. But I don't regret that tradeoff it's very convenient with frequent stopping, accelerating from stationary after waiting for traffic, getting past the occasional bridge/viaduct without having to think about gears. It's my primary mode of transportation for the work commute, getting groceries and the occasional casual ride. And the electric assistance can compensate for that last bit of speed if I'm in a hurry, typically getting to work timely, frozen groceries in the bags or cold/wet weather. The water and toothbrush suggestion to clean the belt seemed very practical, not sure how often it's needed when I don't plan to ride along those routes you're showing on video. I guess I'll keep it in mind if I ever ride over more muddy/sandy type stuff. As much as some of those activities seem fun I don't think my lower back would agree with it and the step through frame is probably not the best suited for it either.

i can't help to think a full chaincase with a fast chain would still beat anything else

That's very cool! Even when I was in grade 7, there were weeks that I biked 1000 km/week. I've torn apart countless chains, even high quality ones...Maybe that would finally solve my problems. You can't speed up too hard when you worry about a chain snapping or pedal busting off.

This channel is amazing. I always thought how belt on a bike is possible

Chain efficiency itself is complicated. Have you looked up Zero Friction Cycling's chain lube and wax test data? Some of the modern products are so efficient that they broke the test protocol and resulted in infinite longevity. Waxed chains are also clean (no black muck etc).

We use Gates polychain belts on a lot of our motors at my work. We get multiple years of hard use before they require replacement. 40,000 - 80,000 hours is not uncommon.

Just buying/installing a belt also needs all the accessories the belt needed. Its great project. Furthermore bearings and chains will do for me.

Best explanatory video out there - again! And I would ride these too, if my bikes had the option.

When I visited China a few years ago, I found in a pile of mobikes on the sidewalk, one with a breoken wheel lock. It was a simple design with a belt drive and airless tires. It was a very ok bike on flat Beijing pavement and I couldn't help but think "Gee, if someone sold a slightly nicer version in the US, I would pay $200 for it instead of the $26 they probably cost a piece here."

More expensive for the hub gears I bet. Considering how simple and readily available current chains are, I’ll keep what I’ve already got.

The Dutch used to build cars with belt drives. I used to drive on of them. I loved it. The two rear wheels were driven separately . Safer and smoother. The car was called Daffodil.

Great video I have a 4 year old cube hybrid bike and love the belt drive

I don’t think they don’t use these in Tour de France because of “weight”(some used heavy retractable MTB seatposts), that can be compensated but it’s due to the fact that belts have A Lot more resistance than an oiled chain

Interesting video. I'm looking to make a DIY bike and i feel like i cannot simply source a frame that supports belt. All of them are e-mtb frames with dual suspensions. Has anyone tried for example to pair an IGH with belt and an M620 on a dangfu frame? Is it possible?

Amazing video mate loved it

I like it that you're showing footage of other cycling youtubers!

Have you tried comparing specifically some of the best e-bike chains vs belts? In exchange for a weight penalty, ebike chains have evolved a lot lately, improving the durability to withstand the forces a motor puts them through.

Thoughts on the Split Belt? Seems to be a more practical solution to the frame compatibility issue for the average person, if the durability is on par with a standard belt

Thanks for your work on this video. Really good information!

The coolest thing about belts for me is you can keep a spare with you because they are so light

I think that belt dissipates more energy than a chain to bend, it also stretches a little bit more than a steel chain. This makes the system more inefficient than a rigid chain.

I don't think there is a huge difference between the tech on a timing belt vs bike belt drive. I think the big difference is the relative size. If bike chains were as wide and thick as a timing chain they would likely never break, and if they were in a filtered oil bath they would never wear out.

Great video! Extremely detailed. Thank you!

Awesome information looking to replace my 2013 Surly Crosscheck before I move to Tokyo this summer. This information is clutch to catch up on changes in the last decade.

For commuting bicycles, belt drives are ok. However, having owned a belt driven bike, they are not perfect. I’ve had a belt snap, they have a much higher resistance to chains and are not simple to fix when they go wrong. Chains are also super compact, and if endurance riding, you can carry two or three spares with ease and always find a shop to repair a chain drivetrain. On your comment regarding gears, I thought the same too. Gearboxes on a commuting bike would be better, but how wrong was that! I found them to be difficult to adjust, they coped badly with any power, and when they did go wrong, it was usually catastrophic. If you need to replace one, it takes forever and costs a small fortune. Derailleurs are simple to replace, cheap to find. I also didn’t find them much cleaner either. They still hold onto dirt and grime and are no cleaner than a well maintained chain. On that last point you are right. But if you don’t maintain your chain, the likelihood is you also don’t oil it, so it’ll be bone dry and as clean as the belt. All in all, the concept is nice, but the execution and reality of a belt drive is not a good one IMHO. One last thing on cost. Chain breaker tools cost about €15 for a Topeak one. And a chain is about €25 for a medium level one. Finally in terms of cost per km. I have an Ultegra chain that’s lasted me over 15,000km and is still going strong. It’s all about how you maintain it.

Nice system. Till Gates decides to discontinue the system that came on your bike and then you can't get a replacement belt. The CDC belt is no longer made. I have a Scott Sub 10, bought in 2016. AFter 15k miles the belt broke. It took me months to find a belt and I had to have it shipped from Europe. Next time I need a belt, I am not sure where I will get it. Pretty sad.

Your content is outstanding!

I have a bike with a belt drive. I hate it. I don't ride it. It's a Felt commuter. The kevlar belt was supposedly unbreakable. I broke it. The internally geared hub is HEAVY. It messes with the balance of the bike. You better get well versed in tuning and diagnosing your own problems because most bike shops don't care about your novelty drivetrain.

Very comphrehensive info thanks! Now to search for a belt drive gravel bike...

glad you mentioned the nm belts are limited to. i prefer bosch powered bikes (85nm torque) and i can put up to 400watts of power down in short bursts, i bet a lot of people can. thanks again.

They can also be reinforces with fex nylon and kevlar, so not only carbon fibers.

Damn you covered everything i could've wanted. Great video. Need more people to make videos in this way

Belts just have different problems. Since you have to use a gearbox or planetary hub, your gear ratios available are far fewer, and very difficult to change. Also, usually way more friction.

Full suspension systems have proven to be vital for me, and climbing hills and shock absorption has been vital in my rides. I'm fascinated by this system. I can see why it is far more proficient. The chain and shifting has been my biggest issue. Going from lowest gear and up. The slack it tends to have, and the chain slipping is more hazardous than anything I've noticed. Do you have any videos on disk breaks or a stronger alternative?

I work in the logistics section of a local bike shop. We use cargobikes with inernal gear hubs and belt drive systems, specifically urban arrow and riese&müller bikes. Ive seen suspensions and even frames bend or break before their belts broke.

FLX was my first use of these. I love them!

One gates belt is almost 100€. I can get 10 11 speed chains for that. A chain lasts me between 10000-15000 kilometers. The cost per Kilometer is much higher on a belt driven bicycle, even if I assume the highest service live of 40000 kilometers. It's cool tech certainly, too expensive for me. Wheels to Wander channel have shown you can travel the world just as good on a 26 inch 90s mountain bike. If you need the extra comfort a belt drive gives you, more power to you.

Shame that you cant just swap chain drive to belts. Buying new very expensive bike just to have belt is too much. I will rather stay with chain and change it maybe 2 or 3 times, its super easy anyway so not big deal.

Thank you so much for this video!

Alee with the high quality videos as always In Peru right now bikepacking