re watched this today and have been watching VODs of geng all day - i take it back, i think Kiin is the best top in the world and I put him over 369 - i disagree with some of my own takes from yesterday doing this live - his champ pool is not an issue at all, reksai nerfs help him , also re watched his lane phase POVs that I did with irrelevant and yeah this guy is just unreal - will no long do tierlists live again, arguments arent strong enough because i cant draw exact examples of the ideas i have of players in my head without putting enough time into it - im disappointed that i have to backtrack on one of my opinions

Now we wait for Doublelift to review this tier list. And then Dom to review the review of Doublelift. Then we wait for Doublelift to review the review of Dom of Doublelifts review of this tier list. Juicy stuff

I actually find it so sad Caedrel has to preface this video with "don't be toxic and flame each other in the comments". People need to seriously get out of this funk in the online sphere of arbitrarily being toxic to people just because they can't physically do anything back. It is so evident it is taking a toll on him because you see in his videos how much he wants to avoid all this drama and unnecessary toxicity but people just can't help themselves.

I swear if he put mikyx over keria

Agreed with Guma, very much unappreciated or undervalued maybe because people don't like his arrogance or JKL playstyle but this guy has put 10/10 performances at 3 worlds in a row. Put some respect on his name

That disclaimer at the end Lmaoooo. He is tired of Doublelift drama

In Tian’s defense he did have to play against MilkyGoat all split.

I agree about Gumayusi. People tend to under-evaluated Gumayusi because maybe like he doesnt carry enough etc BUT THEY FORGOT T1 TOTALLY DONT PLAY AROUND THEIR ADC. Gumayusi mostly consistent on his game lets be real. Who's consistent enough in those 5 games spring finals? Its Gumayusi. People criticize him so hard when he played bad once, but once T1 lost because of other lanes r making mistake, they forgot that Guma held the core hard. Such an under appreciated ADC.

Dude, the saddest thing for me is that Milkyway's plot armor couldn't get FPX to MSI. I wish Caedrel would've had to go back and analyze his gameplay

KERIA OVER MIKYX AINTNOWAY

tian is my favorite jungler just because he represents the coinflip aspect of the game so well on one hand he literaly carries top esports through games and other times he solo loses the game in the span of 10 mins

Regarding your point around 34:00, I think your tier lists should be relative to the strength of the players within it (i.e. worst player in lowest tier, best player in highest). It doesn't really make sense to rank MSI attendees against each other while you're mostly comparing them to players that aren't even in the competition. Putting Umti in C or D tier doesn't mean he's garbage, but he's obviously not on the same level as someone like Tian. Ranking them relative only to other MSI players helps fill out the tiers and avoids these top-heavy tier lists where half the players are in one tier.

25:00 Bo is the best example for that. when he had a good team (+that spoke his native language so no coms issue) and a very good mid that plays around jungle he looked complete 1v9 in lpl. but then in EU on mid/bad teams with coms issues he crumbles.

I’ve only just sort of discovered Caedrel’s channel/commentary/analysis and I love it. I’d be interested to know if Caedrel would review how his tier list holds up after MSI and how his thoughts played out or how people surprise him in the international stages.

Food just finished then come to sit down to a hour caedrel video. Pure bliss..the shys sons should have been a tier

Canyon is just another class monster. When he plays international he always has a part of the series where it is all about him. Last year those graves and Rhaast game. This year was K6.

Seeing On go from being Swortarts replacement in Suning in 2021 to be considered the best support in the world now is quite a journey

Meiko is the all time underrated player. Bro is still here after 10 years and he can still play ranged very good, his duo with jackeylove feels like throwback to the Viper era. Last year he was very bad but EDG was collapsing and Uzi was giga washed. People don't rate him as high because he is rarely the best support in the world at X moment but he has been top 4/5 support for almost 10 years straight and there is only a handful of player who can say that about themselves in their position(basically only Faker and maybe Ruler)

Putting Zeus in A list is crazy and mark my word he will stomp every top laner like the last tournament.

Yea i agree with the comments here, biggest miss is calling Kiin K'sante OTP when he was the only meta champ available after bans. Other than that solid list

Time for the real Tier List, Vediussssssssssssssssssss

I would love if you did a number based rating based on a few factors like lane phase, team-fights, etc. That way it’s a lot easier to separate them into different tiers based on their score

That idea of giving each player ratings (referenced early in the video) can be done in Excel/Spreadsheets. Put their info/photo with the given metrics for each role. Then you can give them a number value, and if you want, give them the tier value also w/o having to make arbitrary tiers (B, A+, S+, etc.) You can also aggregate all the numbered values to decide which players are ahead of each other in raw criteria.

Drink a shot everytime Pedro says merchant

This tierlist is.. absolutely amazing. I really really like it, I think it's literally perfect.

Because you have respect for Gumayusi so I have subscribed to your channel. Thank you so much!!

What made keria a contender for best in the world at some point when he started playing ranged support is that his meta picks like nautilus were also completly insane. you had to pick your poison now he's kindoff a weird pick merchant.

I agree with the Noah take tho might be biased. Fnc topside has struggled this split. Razork looked off it at times. Huma did regular season huma things. And oscar had a rough split. So Noah and Jun picked the team up and brought them msi. Noah still has things to work on. But he is improving. His mechanics are really good and his synergy with Jun looks incredible

42:00 chovy said himself that he found out that the match up was decent in soloq if corki just uses w to dodge orianna's q w

I agree Guma is the best player on T1 right now

I really enjoyed this free form process and hearing your thoughts. If you dont want to do this live for tier lists, just a "my thoughts on each team" live would be sick. Love your content🎉

You had the right idea with Inspired initially. He has a strong pathing sense that is similar to how KR junglers operate. Mistakes are minimized, reads the game flow, and keeps progressing. He is definitely above the other Western junglers and honestly above Tian. If Inspired had what some of these others guys had? Ya, it would be incredible. Humanoid gets too many benefits of the doubt after his countless errors. The only individuals from FNC who truly stand out are Razork and Jun. Noah did horrible in many fight situations. Peyz teamfighting is not great in terms of taking ownership to win over pressure. He can clean up, make less mistakes. Overall though? Not that great and pretty much similar levels to Hans. Chovy helps bail him out in early game. Kiin helps out a lot in mid-late. Without those players he would never be considered there. Really liked the listings still though. The support pool is strong. AD's a bit weak. And the comment to reverse Kiin's placement is good. He excels in so many aspects while requiring bans vs him. He deserves the top spot.

Watching you think these through outloud really shows why people tune into your stream over the official one

There is no way there is a chinese equivalent of Caedrel is there? Someone who brings this much analysis and details to their league statistics content. It's so good for us interested, I bet people from all regions watch the rat king.

I can't wait for the doublelift response followed up by the iwd response!

So happy Caedral watched LCS this year. I've always been a big fan of Caedral, but only watch LCS during the regular split. Appreciate the content

You gotta give Jensen credit, he's been playing out of his mind recently. Definitely edges out APA if not Humanoid too. His baseline is lower than both, but he's been playing like someone else recently, kinda like Impact.

Is Kiin a K'sante merchant? Are you kidding me? T1 banned his Rumble, Twisted Fate, and Jayce at LCK final.

I actually completely agree with ur list and arguments.

Bro really keeps putting zeus in lower then S and zeus keeps proving he is the best top in the world, t1 just won worlds and he is still A mad.

The Creme analysis was really thin. Game one BLG had an entire comp to shut down Creme, and despite that he still performed very well. His game 2 he was the only person on his team doing damage despite 369 going 333 mode. Game 3 he was hard carrying and game 4 he saved the team so many fucking times. He looked extremely good even if he wasn't on his champs.

We must ensure caedrel holds up his agreement; if GenG choke this msi, never trust them in internationals ever again.

Serious attempt to start a civilised discussion about Tian: let’s say he is a coin flip jungler, either he wins his team the game or he loses it with 50% probability. This is clearly not true since his teams has always had good win rates in lpl. It is a bit extreme to think that he completely determines the outcome of a game. Therefore we say tian decides 30% of games by himself instead. he has some of the best teammates in the lpl, if hypothetically we would let his team play 1000 matches with caedrel jungle vs all other teams in lpl with caedrel as their jung. I think the win rate of the fpx line up would be 75%. Now we place back tian in the team. since tian decides 30 percent of games we remove them first evenly from the wins and losses( 225 wins and 75losses) resulting in 700 games remaining. This leaves 525 wins and 175 losses(still 75% wr of course). The 300 remaining games are decided by tian with 50 % win chance. This would bring the win/lose ratio 150 wins 150 loses and added makes 675 wins and 325 loses. Which is a decrease in win rate from 75 to 67,5. BUT if your team play vs better team(skt , blg , geng ) it will actually bring up your winrate. Let’s say fpx players excluding tian have 25 % win rate vs blg skt geng. You will have 32.5 % wr (525l, 175w +{150,150} -> 675l, 325w)with tian vs when you have identical jungle! Therefore, if tian is playing, their average end result may be worse, but in the scenario they reach top 4, you prefer to have tian over almost any other jungler

its fair to be recency biased and base the tier on recent performance im a T1 fan and i do think T1 fell off a little bit in terms of their performance due to major circumstances but i wont go that far that assuming they won't work harder and ramp up going to MSI.

GUMA 🙌

I wish Oner's pathing would improve, his pathing gets in his way . Only exception was last worlds, my word his pathing and that Poppy vs Sej.

I respect your choice. So don’t be intimidated and make a bold choice. your argument with DL is setting MSI on fire. Those processes are attracting attention. That's a positive effect.

Broken blade is probably really good at figuring out Player vs Player matchups, which would explain domestic success, as he doesn't have enough input data for international success

Can’t wait for Bb and Miky to prove you wrong for opposite reasons

As a g2 fan I have no idea how you are putting miky over jun, what does jun have to do more to go above a guy who runs down more than half the games he plays. Also i dont see why you dont apply to miky the same mentality you apply to tian, when half his ganes he's as bad as it gets and the only reason he doesn't solo lose like tian is because of the role he plays.

I really like your tierlist, especially the viper take on the adcs :D (big viper fan)

Agreed with everything besides Keria analysis. How do we forget his melee support performances? Dude is a legendary Tahm Kench, Thresh, Alistar player. He has straight up carried countless games on these picks

That 369 evolved is just a wrong description, because he was a carry player before playing with ruler.

I mean, I could understand this tier list if I were on some kind of hard drugs or something

only major thing id change is zeus to B, sure his potential is high but man hes been running it ever since he stopped otping aatrox, solo lost t1 playoff games and finals

Not sure if you will see this, but would love to know if you have plans of casting, re- entering pro play, or coaching at all. Maybe a video about whats going on with the rat king!!

In order I got Top : Bin Kiin 369 zeus bb oscar Jgl : canyon xun oner razork tian yike Mid : knight chovy faker caps creme humanoid Adc : elk guma peyz jkl hans noah Supp : on keria lehends mikyx meiko jun

Bin benefits from Camille buffs the most out of all toplaners. Not only he is the best pro Camille player but he is also amazing at countering her with his champ pool. He is also historically good at blinding her into counters. However, I have a feeling Camille is super overrated and won't even be a meta pick at all and more be in a similar place like Syndra usually is in mid - aka more of a borderline meta/niche sometimes viable pick.

I think GenG is unbeatable if Peyz can perform on MSI. He ist one of the best mechanical players in the world. Hope GenG botside will avoid their small mistakes and can show up on stage. Would love to see Peyz perform as he did on his debut year 🤩

Great list man. Honestly really in depth info. Man NA teams idk. xD

Botlanes should be rated together

I can't believe he put mikyx over chovy mid, and mikyx over faker in the all time GOAT list. Rat king 🐀

I love Keria, I really do. But I always get the impression that he as a player is really emotional and rhat he performs incredible when T1 wins, and struggles a bit when theyre behind or losing or lost the previous game hard. He always manages to step up though so well see at MSI. Hype 🎉

My stocks are on yike in the future, he is realy young and its only his secound year in the lec and he is still one of the best if not the best jungler in eu. And i think he will grow alot and on some point he will be the best western player i believe.

Glad to see the guma rating bc so many people flame Guma for being the worst player in T1 and its annoying me a bit. Maybe I should just get off twitter

kiin is k'sante merchant? 'merchant' mean OTP am i right? tf?

I think it would be hilarious if ON OVER KERIA comes out of this tournament.

Caedrel basically said that Yike is the Ringo Starr of G2: good enough to roll with everyone on his team, always overshadowed by the teammates

Kiins rumble was “ok”? Bruh. Did he not watch lck spring finals? His ults won them like 4-5 team fights back to back.

great vid, i only disagree with saying that jungle meta isnt great for t1. you named the jungle champs that are good right now like xin zhao, lee sin, viego, poppy and oner is ridiculous at all of those champs. i think oner and t1 in general really thrive when he can pick scrappy champs and fight the enemy for camps or crabs and get leads that way. thats why the game where canyon played kha he looked bad because kha counters xin and nullifies that scrappy playstyle. rell is the only champ oner is really good at thats out of the meta, but you could say that for almost any jungler. if anything i think not being assigned to rell duty will free oner up to showcase that scrappy playstyle

with Jensen too I also think it depends on what the team wants from him. having him on Annie is so troll man, I miss 2019 Jensen :/

Let's goooo! this is gonna be a banger, I know it! ❤

Canyon the 🐐

Kiin champion pool take is completely fried. Champion pool is one of his pros.

Thank you for what you said about Yike, he deserves a lot more credit imo ! There are a lot of games were he carried

thanks for the content :)

dw boys if you dont like this tier list just remember hes the guy who put mikyx over keria so take his list with a grain of salt.

Hey there Caedrel, just wondering if u r gonna be fine with me translate this clip to Chinese and post it on Bilibili. Would be great to share your insight to some of the more isolated place on the internet and see how Chinese community would react.

last year msi bb was hard carrying g2 bro he aint invisible

Good tierlist. Only thing I think is gonna be pretty contentious is jungle.

Ur worried abt Kiin's champ pool? Lmao

remove healing BS tanks like reksai udyr in the meta, and bring back camille and carry tops, and zeus just smokes everyone again

i feel like with T1 its always hard to rank their players because domestically they always lose to Gen.g recently, but internationals always stomps LPL. Zeus hardly loses to 369 or Bin in laning phase during internationals but gets shut down by Kiin in Spring finals😅😢 I think based on recent Spring events, this tierlist should be somewhat accurate but overall wise T1 should have their own tier "Unknown"

hard not to like my goat Canyon, he will literally play anything that others have never even played in their whole career and perform, I want to see something more like Kayn,Kha'Zix at MSI, well obviously there's really not much nowadays when the diff between champs is just huge, u have shit like Skarner and then u have Sylas,Kayn..

If T1 bans Kiin's ksante, they win one of those two games. CRAZY they didn't. CRAZY they banned Jayce lmao. Kkoma dropped the ball hard on that draft phase.

You can't rate Zeus for MSI based on LCK playoffs performance, toplane meta in that period was atrocious, he never played Reksai, the main toplane champ for almost every "top tier" toplaner and he had to counter Reksai with unconventional picks, which he'd rather not play normally(over his main picks). That sad Reksai merchants meta is over, I think Zeus should outperform everyone now(in most of the games), as he did in worlds, free win toplane champions are gone.

Gen G has an actual shot to win now that they finally have a top and jungle and aren't 3 v 5ing every international

Actually pretty solid tier list, good job rat king

theshy > all

my man couldn't hide his G2/Fnatic biais...

You're a fun guy. Last year's Worlds pre-date video for The Shy, and then you lost the finals to T1 with a backstab The Shy, you're still having a face?

Woah woah woah, we can’t have a caedrel tierlist without someone foaming at the mouth. DOM, someone go get dom.

WHERE'S JOSEDEODO MY MAN?

If camille is op, then Bin is op. He was at one point, the absolute best camille player in the world.

jackeylove vs noah would be insane

umti's playstyle suits so well with na players, they like to be ganked all the time, which is not gonna work internationally unless his carries gap their lanes

니가 lck를 안챙겨 보니까 기인 챔프폭 이야기를 하지 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 전문성은 개나 줬네 진짜 ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

Chovy is so fcking overrated. Dude consistently chokes in internationals and plays complete mediocre League of Legends but we always talk about how he's "best in the world". I'm sorry but no. I can see it this year I guess since they have Canyon (who I think is the ACTUAL best player in the world) but the problem with Chovy himself is that he is not aggressive early game, and is very susceptible to getting rolled by a team like BLG who choke you out early. He has no early game picks in his champ pool, he always prioritizes late game scalers like Corki, Azir and Aurelion Sol.

u should do a tierlist of all commentary from diff regions too

Hey Marc. Somehow only under your yt videos i cant adjust the quality of it. It is you, who's adjusting it? Cuz its kinda bad to watch in in 360/480.