Can a SOFTER TIP Put MORE SPIN on the Ball? -- MYTHBUSTING Answers

День тому

Dr. Dave looks closely at the myth that a softer tip can impart more spin to the CB. He presents a simple test that anybody can easily do on their own to compare any tips of interest. He first looks at all effects associated with using tips of different hardness. He then does careful tests to compare functional performance of tips over a wide range of hardness including a Victory Soft, a medium-hardness Tiger Sniper, and a hard phenolic-like BK Hybrid.
Content:
0:00 - Intro
0:45 - “Hit” Differences
1:59 - Energy Transfer
3:13 - Sidespin Persistence
3:59 - Drag Effects
5:27 - Cue Elevation Effects
7:05 - CB Deflection
8:06 - Max Spin at Fast Speed
11:14 - Max Spin at Slow Speed
13:01 - Wrap Up
Supporting Resources:
- shaft/tip info: Predator Revo with Victory Soft, Cuetec Cynergy with a medium-hardness Tiger Sniper, Predator BK Rush with a phenolic-like BK Hybrid
- “Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion” video: • Cue Tip Contact Myth-B...
- "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" video: • POWER DRAW and Large-C...
- "A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL to Test Your DRAW QUALITY … and SOFT VS. HARD TIP Comparison" video: • A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL ...
- cue tip hardness effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- cue/tip hit/feel resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- cue hit efficiency: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/c...
- “CUE BALL CONTROL ... Everything You Need to Know” video: • CUE BALL CONTROL ... E...
- drag shot resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- aiming with sidespin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- squirt and swerve effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- “Swoop Stroke Experiment - Can swooping create extra spin on the cue ball?” video: • Swoop Stroke Experimen...
- miscue limit resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/s...
- Top 100 Myths of Pool: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/
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Good Luck With Your Game!!!

КОМЕНТАРІ: 402

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

*Content:* 0:00 - Intro 0:45 - “Hit” Differences 1:59 - Energy Transfer 3:13 - Sidespin Persistence 3:59 - Drag Effects 5:27 - Cue Elevation Effects 7:05 - CB Deflection 8:06 - Max Spin at Fast Speed 11:14 - Max Spin at Slow Speed 13:01 - Wrap Up *Supporting Resources:* - shaft/tip info: Predator Revo with Victory Soft, Cuetec Cynergy with a medium-hardness Tiger Sniper, Predator BK Rush with a phenolic-like BK Hybrid - “Cue Tip Contact Myth-Busting Truths in Super Slow Motion” video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/gKeSrax_cLBiyZ8.html - "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/hoqUjqKBhY1mqnU.html - "A Fun CHALLENGE DRILL to Test Your DRAW QUALITY … and SOFT VS. HARD TIP Comparison" video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/jGiniIdqi317zaM.html - cue tip hardness effects resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ - cue/tip hit/feel resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ - cue hit efficiency: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/ - “CUE BALL CONTROL ... Everything You Need to Know” video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/noCCeXivmXiqpWg.html - drag shot resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/drag/ - aiming with sidespin resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/ - squirt and swerve effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/effects/ - System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ - “Swoop Stroke Experiment - Can swooping create extra spin on the cue ball?” video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/gn95mZtrsWmSw3U.html - miscue limit resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/ - Top 100 Myths of Pool: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/ *Subscribe to Dr. Dave's UKposts Channel:* ukposts.info

@williammcdowell3718 Рік тому

Dr. Dave, I think this opens another discussion. Do layered tips provide more spin.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@williammcdowell3718 No.

@bennylloyd-willner9667 Рік тому

To be able to share so much knowledge as calmly and clearly as Dr. Dave is a true gift not many possess! Brilliant video - again!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you!

@bennylloyd-willner9667 Рік тому

I fully accept your findings. I did think spin was easier to achieve when I went for a soft tip, but now I think it's just the personal feel you get and for me, a soft tip suited my style very well. I miss pool playing very much, I just haven't been able to make it fit with the rest of my life, but my situation has changed and hopefully, I will be able to set up a table in a new room we're about to build. These videos sure get my pool heart ticking faster again 👍

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you for being open-minded. That is rare to find these days.

@bw4593 Рік тому

The only thing that reliably puts more spin on the cue ball is a good consistent stroke/cue ball hit!!!! Smaller tip diameter can def get you farther to the edge of the cue ball. But I’d say if anything a firmer tip will absorb less energy, but the most important factor for any human player is consistently hitting the cue ball where you want to hit it!!

@frederiquerijsdijk Рік тому

Lovely video's, as always. So much time and dedication (and science!). Keep it up.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks. I aim to swerve. :)

@valentenicoletti3622 Рік тому

Really a wonderful job mr DrDave ! I really love your Passion for Pool

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks!

@ulrichhermes1315 Рік тому

Your channel is pure gold, greetings from Germany!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you. Greetings from the US!

@keithfoong4796 Рік тому

My phone almost caught fire watching this video with the amount of roasts Dr Dave made. Amazing video

@kurtkensson2059 Рік тому

You definitely did a good job of explaining the variables, and what you did to try and control them.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks. I doubt the Disbelievers will agree, but I tried.

@kurtkensson2059 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards You've done the research, set up your experiments carefully, controlled the variables reasonably well, noted the results, and presented the evidence. Your conclusion(s) seem valid to me, ha ha. But I'm no Doctor! Some of it does seem counter-intuitive, so maybe a little disbelief should be expected. It _has_ changed some of my opinions.

@chriscooper1686 Рік тому

That is a great video.. I enjoyed the other one with the slow mo videos. But the logic is sound and almost identical to what I have been telling people for years. I went through a period were I tried about 20 or 25 tips. Just because I was ultra curious. Thank you for all you do. All the information you put out there is helpful.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I'm glad you liked it. I hope it helps you convince your friends you've been right all these years.

@gingerwizard69 Рік тому

I always love watching your videos. When it comes to hitting the ball with different shafts/tips etc... I find it, for your study sakes, that you need a machine that can do the stroke... to many varibles to be sure that the hit is consistent

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I designed the tests at the end of the video so stroke consistency doesn't matter. If you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are. Testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@davekat4680 Рік тому

Thanks once again Doctor 💯

@tomm9178 Рік тому

Being a ACUI Nationals competitor (from region 8) in the 70's I was always self taught, albeit with some help from a few books and the "advice" of others. I hung up the cue for 45+ years until I retired and have come back with a vengeance now that I've been able to get some sound advice from you and others on UKposts. Thanks so much for what you have done. I think you provide the best and most comprehensive instructional material available anywhere. I also enjoy Neils Feijen's and Sharivari's channels. The former has such a positive and infectious attitude as well as the best drills going and the later because it's been fun watching him develop as a player over the years. But on to this video. I have one suggestion you might consider. In your scientific approach rather than relying solely on the subjective feel of the player (yourself in the test you perform here) in the execution of speed of stroke and in a lesser degree to the point of contact on the cue ball, elevation of the shaft, etc. why not try and collaborate with your former colleagues at the university, and design the equivalent of an "Iron Byron" for the game of billiards that could be placed on the table with all sorts of adjustable settings for que speed, elevation, cue ball placement (for different English strokes), etc. that would consistently repeat the perfect stroke (just like Lord Byron was said to have). Maybe all that is too daunting ( it's always good to dream big,🙂), but at least something to hone in on the stroke speed factor. Even the best pro's don't always get it right.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Many cue testing robots have been developed over the years. They rarely give results as good as what is possible with careful testing with actual human shooters. For the reasons why, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@tomm9178 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards Thx Doc. You're the best . Keep up the good, no the great, work!

@ScottsPoolSchool Рік тому

Great video, have been telling people this for years when teaching or discussing the game, all based on early learnings from the many books I read as well as excellent information on your website. Some people still don't believe it... :) Pick the tip that feels and sounds the best to you, provides the best feedback, gives the closest hit sound / feel to what you are mentally expecting based on your stroke.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Good advice.

@warrenwatkins9650 Рік тому

Three day ago I just put on a cheap $2 med. tip on my Lucasi cue following your excellent video on installing a tip. Yesterday when hitting the que ball with a little backspin, the que ball wanted to jump up off the table, a little adjustment in my stroke solved that. My other que has a soft tip and I can't tell any difference between the two in the way they play. I've been wondering if these $25 cue tips are worth the money or is it just hype. The biggest improvement comes from practice and trying to shoot at anything that looks remotely possible to make. Sometimes I run the rack, but mostly 4 to 6 ball runs. Thanks for all your videos, they're awesome.

@jasonnieuwenhuis335 Рік тому

Wow that’s really unexpected and interesting. Thank you for your swervice.

@gtrmusic69 Рік тому

Good and interesting video. Thanks for all your work.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I'm glad you liked it. You're welcome.

@jeschinstad Рік тому

My criticism of this is that you're comparing the best spins you get with each tip, ignoring the miscues. In reality, if extreme spin with a hard tip leads to more miscues than you get with a soft tip, then you get more spin with a soft tip, since you will instinctively reduce your spin with the hard tip. This is comparable to players used to pub cues. Because they're often not perfectly straight, they tend to be bad at backspin, because they've subconsciously trained themselves to aim higher on the white to avoid scooping. But it is a very interesting video! :)

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Check out my "POWER DRAW and Large-Curve Massé with a BREAK CUE Phenolic Tip!!!" follow-up video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/hoqUjqKBhY1mqnU.html I didn't miscue once with the super hard tip.

@jeschinstad Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards: Right. That was an interesting video too, but again, I think my point is that if the hard tip requires much more skill to get the same effect, then I would continue to say that the soft tip gives more effect. You might simply be too good to use as an example.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@jeschinstad That is kind of you. Related to your points, hard tips (especially phenolic-based tips) do not hold chalk as well as most soft tips; so if you don't chalk carefully or often enough, a softer tip might be a better choice. FYI, other differences are listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@jeschinstad Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards: I've been testing your claims with people who have never played pool before. They all agree with you and they all prefer to play with my breaking cue than my playing cue. This is really interesting to me. I play with a 11.75mm soft tip Z2, so that might be an issue, but I'm _really_ interested now.

@fixitrod4969 Рік тому

The doctor has spoken! This will be a million view video! Nice job as usual! I have had softer tips be worse at draw, which showed the amount of time a softer tip touches the ball doesn't matter enough to change things. I think I'll be changing to medium or hard tips to save a few bucks. Thanks, Dr. Dave!!!!!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you, and you're welcome.

@brendanvu1983 Рік тому

Thank you for posting this. I'm guessing it was a follow up to your other video because I had others argue with me. Physical scientific approach to these concepts is way more factual than anecdotal ones.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

It was definitely a "follow up" to my Cue Tip Myths video. It sparked quite a lot of controversy in UKposts comments and on AZBilliards.

@brendanvu1983 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards I'm glad you posted this. A lot of the physics happens out of the nature of our perception, so having these type of experiments can demystify what actually happens, rather than our perceptions of what we thought happened

@gmiller123456 Рік тому

I don't think this experiment is analogous to actual play. I don't think many people hit the ball at the edge of miscuing during actual play (on purpose). At the edge of a miscue is when the least amount of tip would be in contact with the ball, and the effects between the tips is reduced to a minimum. What really needs to be measured is now much spin you can reliably put on the ball without the danger of a miscue. Also, even with a hit slightly off center, more spin under that situation would be better as the effect of deflection would be less, and my rather crude tests shows the softer tip puts more spin on the ball when hit the same distance off center.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

If a tip is chalked properly and you hit inside the miscue limit, you will not miscue. But if you want, you can try the tests at the end of the video with some other amount of spin, for example half of maximum. If you do everything I recommend in the video, I am confident your results will be no different for different tip hardness, regardless of the amount of spin.

@si98justme1 Рік тому

Dr Dave, while I agree with your findings in my experience, I do think you should consider a colab, or even just take a few cues (sorry couldn’t resist), from project farm’s videos, where he eliminates as many variables as possible by making test jigs for the maximum possible repeatability. It shouldn’t be too hard with a pneumatic cylinder, a few bits of wood/metal and a cylinder that can be repeatedly pressurised to the same pressure, thereby “pushing” the cue at precisely the same speed and direction every time. Just a thought ;)

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I designed the tests at the end of the video so stroke consistency doesn't matter. If you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are. Also, testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@afdkj Agreed. Careful measurements with speed/spin sensors (or slomo video analysis) would help provide additional validation. However, I think explanations, videos, links, and other info here are quite convincing: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@rauldavila8632 9 місяців тому

I thought we had to hit as low as possible to get good draw on power stroke draw shots. Your saying to hit a little higher than I previously was doing. Very interesting. Can't wait to try today when I go practice. Take care

@DrDaveBilliards 9 місяців тому

Yep. It is still low, but not pushing the miscue limit. For more info and examples, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/power/

@coreyquante2616 3 місяці тому

Yup, one tip below center can easily drow over 9ft, it's stroke quality that matters.

@adamadler7041 Рік тому

The information was good... I will still continue to shoot with my defy shaft with a kamui clear black soft, it works for my game.

@BROU-bb2uc Рік тому

I found a tip just as good as Kamui. Morikami and cheaper.

@erickort1987 4 місяці тому

thanks DrDaveBilliards sir,great video, i have a kamui SS tip on my jacoby 11.75 mm ultra pro shaft,i get fairly good english off from it

@joebottini1743 Рік тому

Great video, Dr. Dave. I checked your cue efficiency page. Mike Page uses an analogy of treating the tip as an elastic spring. You can use the same analogy to support your observation that increased hardness results in more efficient collisions. If you can treat the tip as a spring, then increasing the hardness is analogous to increasing the spring coefficient, k. For the same force, F=-kx, increasing k reduces x. The energy going into the spring is E=(1/2)kx^2. For the same force, the energy through the spring varies by 1/k. The energy of the 'wobbling' of the spring after contact should be proportional to the energy going through the spring in the first place. Thus, stiffer tips should be more efficient. I've read through some but not all of your technical proofs, so forgive me if you've already considered it. I figured I'd point it out as it's an analogy anyone with a high-school-level understanding of physics should be able to grasp.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks for sharing that.

@NoVowel Рік тому

Another wonderful video.. thanks!!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

@fredrikschonemann5916 Рік тому

I totally agree with the findings. What about ease of applying spin? I have the feeling it is easier to apply spin with softer tips, that they are more forgiving and don't require as pure of a hit. More beginner friendly if you will. I play with a hard tip as it feels like it keeps my stroke honest.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

If you think that, it might be true for you. Softer tips sometimes hold chalk better; so if you don’t chalk carefully, a soft tip could offer an advantage.

@alpaul Рік тому

OK, but now you need to do a follow up study. Which tip hardness gets the most consistent results. You would need the same cue and shaft type to take away some of the variables, but could do it with a cheap predator butt (or other brand) that was easy to switch shafts with that are all the same (i.e. all 314s). Each would have different tip harnesses. You would then perform say 10 different shots with the different hardness tips 10 times each. To take away any bias you may have in terms of preference, you would need to label the shafts so you know which one has a specific tip, cover the label, then add a secondary label to them so that you can record your results when using shafts at random. Using a manufacturer that makes tips at different hardness would help offset variations between brands, although I would assume this would minimal or non existent based on this video and its previous video. It might help end the tip debate entirely in conjunction with this video.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

That's a good idea. You should do it and post the video. If you do, please post a link here.

@rodconner9079 Рік тому

Another great and informative video!!!! Be Safe

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks!

@KingStibroz 2 місяці тому

A few weeks ago a friend of mine asked if I had changed my tip. -No, why? I asked. The sound of me hitting the ball was so soft. But it was the same Kamui hard tip I've been using for a long time, and ironically enough, I had just been playing at a 9-ball tournament, breaking with the same cue. I might be somewhat naturally talented and have skill cueing very softly, but I just don't see why an amateur player should use a non-hard tip. They just wear off faster and, in my opinion, don't give you any advantage you can't gain with practice.

@DrDaveBilliards 2 місяці тому

Agreed. Harder tips have several advantages, as documented here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@MrAntup Рік тому

It is the placebo effect if you think a soft tip gives you more spin then it will as you are confident it will. For me i put a compressed triangle on my cue 5 yrs ago i break with my playing cue and not even a hint of mushrooming.

@justachristian4072 Рік тому

Dr. Dave, I like to get your thoughts on this: I saw your video on drawing the ball with different tip hardnesses. Might a softer tip impart less speed on the cue ball that the spin has to overcome which would be important on draw shots that are cuts. In other words, with a harder tip the cue ball would travel down the 90 degree line longer before drawing. I always thought of a good stroke being able to generate more rpm’s per mph.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

For a given tip offset, a softer tip imparts slightly less speed and slightly less spin by the same proportion. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@hoots711 3 місяці тому

Love the Channel Dr Dave! Quick question that your video didnt cover. What tip should an average player start with (S/M/H) and why would you switch between them? If the amount of spin is not determined by tip hardness, what factors do tip hardness impact? Thank you!

@DrDaveBilliards 3 місяці тому

It doesn't really matter much, but I recommend a harder tip per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@pedrom1619 Рік тому

Hi Dr. Dave I think the best way to sum it up is the same spin can be imparted into the CB regardeless of the tip's hardness! Yet the effort (consistency) needed with a softer tip tends to be smaller!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Actually, slight more effort (cue speed) is required with a softer tip due to the slightly less hit efficiency (energy transfer). See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/efficiency/

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@afdkj Agreed. For a given tip contact point, more speed gives more spin (they increase by the same proportion). See my follow-up videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ You can deal with this by making sure the CB travel distance (and therefore speed) is the same for every shot in any comparison.

@oatmeal9900 Рік тому

Hello Dr. Dave, Thanks again for another great video. What is the point of having a soft, medium, hard or super hard tip then...besides feel? Thanks again!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I think it is mostly "feel"/sound, and "marketing."

@georgemathiellis5486 11 місяців тому

I can verify that both my playing cue (soft tip) and break cue (phenolic tip) can impart about the same spin, but seeking the max spin I can make 9/10 shots without a misscue with the soft tip and 2-3/10 shots with the phenolic..... I have much more confidence playing shots with lots of spin using a soft tip and I also like the feel of the longer contact.

@DrDaveBilliards 11 місяців тому

FYI, a softer tip does provide a different "feel," but it is impossible to detect the "longer contact" since humans can't detect time differences in the millisecond (thousandth of a second or 0.001s) range. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/contact-time/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/

@brianmack6285 Рік тому

Given the tip hardness changed the contact point size but had no/negligible effect on spin imparted, does this lead to idea that neither tip size nor shape will affect spin imparted, so long as the CP remains at the same location? If a naked shaft would hold chalk, why wouldn't that work just as well, perhaps even a bit more efficiently ?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I naked wood shaft would not withstand the abuse after a while. That's why we have ferrules ... to protect the wood from damage. The tip also helps lessen the impact to the wood. Concerning tip shape and size, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

@brianmack6285 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards Obviously I was being a bit facetious but I believe your link proves the point. The tip, size and hardness, has negligible affect on play. Shape is perhaps a tad more influential as it expands or contracts the actual miscue limit (up to the 30 deg max) as opposed to how easily a player may operate at the limit without going over it.

@Poolology101 Рік тому

Another great video, Dave. However, it would be more convincing/valid to use the exact same type of cue each time, only with different tips on them. Also, an argument could be made that the different cues produce different efficiency regarding energy transfer, which would affect the action off the cushion. And it could also be argued that your stroke speed is not perfectly consistent for each shot. I would love to see someone use something like the old Meucci stroke machine/robot to do this test. Use two different tips (super soft vs med hard) and two exact cues. Stroke speeds should be equal and the tip offsets (imparted spin) should be perfectly equal each time. Instead of measuring the rebound angle, measure the rpm's generated for each cb. I realize this would be much more involved (using machined equipment and a tachometer somehow), but the results would be more convincing.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

As described and demonstrated in the video, for meaningful comparisons, CB speed needs to be the same, not stroke speed. The CB speed was "measured" by how far the CB travelled. Concerning "measuring" the spin, rebound angle is reliable and no special equipment required. It will vary from one table to the next, but relative comparisons will be valid. BTW, testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@Poolology101 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards yes, you wanted equal cb speeds to show that with different tips/cues you got similar results. What I'm saying is that the applied effort (stroke speed) is what should be equal, not cb speed, in order to determine if any significant difference in spin is generated with different tips. And also the cues should be equal (weight and shaft deflection). If you want to show or prove that tip hardness does not make a significant difference in spin, the only thing that should be different in the equipment and test procedure is tip hardness. One tip should be a super soft, the other a medium or medium hard. Everything else should be the same. I'm just pointing out things that could make the test results more convincing or valid. With the same effort applied (same stroke speed with the same cue), a medium hard tip would have a more efficient hit, transferring more energy, than a super soft tip. Does more energy tranfer result in more cb spin, ie...rpm's? That's the type of test that would be more accurate for determining which tip might produce more spin. 🤔 Anyway, I'm sure any slight difference in spin would be too small to be of any real benefit anyway.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I know what you are saying, I just don't agree based on all the reasons I describe and demonstrate in the first half of the video. For example, Bob Meucci's "Myth Destroyer" testing machine was actually a "Myth Creator" due to all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/#rules

@NickCurran Рік тому

Excellent video doc! It sort of begs a video for what tip softness selection does mean in one’s game. Not impacting spin implies that it doesn’t impact miscue limit. I’ve certainly used some bar cues that could barely be used off center. Is that only tip shape? What’s the value in a softer tip then?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

If the bar cue cannot impart spin, it is probably because it is glazed and not holding chalk well. Harder tips do offer some advantages per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Although, some people will prefer a softer tip for the "feel" and sound of the hit: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ or because it might make it easier to control speed of finesse shots.

@paullordi5154 Рік тому

Watching your videos you are still hitting the ball 10 feet . The video I watched I also saw miss ques . The soft at slow speeds is less misquees. I very much would love to continue a respectable conversation on this with you dr Dave.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

You or others can do similar tests at super-slow finesses speed instead if you want. I would expect the results to be the same. Concerning the miscues, as I explained in the video, that was the goal of the test, to push the miscue limit so much (to find the maximum spin possible for each cue/tip) that you should miscue half the time during the tests. Obviously, in actual play, you don't push the miscue limit that much.

@sethh8892 Рік тому

While people could argue that you may not be hitting the exact same amount of side Spin and the exact same amount of energy each time, my argument comes from simple experience. And from experience, a smaller, softer, tip has always given me WAY more controll and more sidespin with less chance of miscue. I currently run a 10 mil tip with a kamui supersoft and I absolutely love it. I can damn near hit the edge of the ball (in left hand spin, the left side of my cue tip is nearly parallel with the left edge of the ball, vice-versa for right hand spin) and NEVER miscue, assuming I properly chalk. I use Kamui .98 and Konelenn Nano chalk, which seems to be very effective with my combination. I'm also using a Go Customs Carbon SNK shaft with a Predator 2 butt.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@ramensospicy2992 Рік тому

hey dr dave! i love your videos! thanks for doing all these experiments. i have a question. for softer tips, doesnt it allow you to hit much harder at the extreme miscue limits with more security? can you hit at that same extreme force with a hard tip? thanks again dr dave!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I believe a typical hard playing-cue tip (but not a break cue phenolic tip) has a miscue limit just as reliable (if not better) than a soft tip based on the info, detailed explanations, and demonstrations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@MrSulkow1 Рік тому

Very interesting. Nice video 👌

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I'm glad you liked it. Thanks.

@dansharpie Рік тому

the softness of the tip is all about cue ball speed and power input, stroke speed and feel.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

A good player can easily and quickly adjust to any cue/tip combo and to any table conditions, which can also vary a lot.

@vincentbeaurivage Рік тому

I know you aim to swerve the billiard community but damn … my head spins a lot after watching this! Thanks again for your work!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Does your head spin in a good way, or a bad way?

@ethanletzer3507 Рік тому

I have always wondered why I miscue more with a soft tip than a hard!!!!!! Thank you Dr. Dave for once again sciencing up the pool world 😁

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

@millsbobster Рік тому

i don't think that's what DD said -- i think the video states that a certain form of miscue with longer contact occurs with a softer tip. as DD says in a response below: "If you chalk properly and often enough (e.g., before each shot), and if the tip holds chalk well, there should be no difference in the % of miscues."

@JohnJohnson-zq9rg Рік тому

I just adapt the aim when playing with side spin, depending on shot speed, ammount of spin, bridgelenght, dry/moist climat conditions and cue elevation. I do not do pivotting when down on the shot. Judging aiming line is done when standing and walking into the shot. When down on the shot I do not need to change it.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

That's how most players do it. But not all players are as accurate and consistent as others when doing this. Without SAWS, my aim with sidespin was unreliable, especially for large amounts of sidespin and longer shots. With SAWS, I am much, much better.

@KK-sg5gl Рік тому

I’ve been playing for over 20 years and am a 700 rated player, with credentials to back it up. For me, personally at least, I’ve concluded (100% certainty) that a softer tip produces more squirt. I use several different shots to test this, and have noticed this phenomenon every time. I first noticed it when buying my first Predator REVO shaft, as it comes with a soft tip installed. The aim on these test shots that I use were off by at least half a ball. I immediately cut the tip off and changed it to a hard tip, which is what I was accustomed to at the time. The squirt and aiming of those same exact shots were now consistent with my previous shaft that also had a hard tip on it. There was almost no need for adjustment. I then further tested this by using someone else’s REVO shaft on my cue, which still had the soft tip installed. Same result as in the cue ball was squirting about a half ball more then I anticipated when shooting my test shots. For further confirmation of my testing method, I am able to make these shots 20+ times in a row, very consistent. But once I change the tip from my usual hard to soft, I consistently miss them the same exact way, over cutting or under cutting them by about half a ball, depending on the shot. If this isn’t scientific enough and an indication that tip hardness affects squirt, then I don’t know what is. Also, I use the tip hardness chart that’s out there to gauge what exactly I was using, because the difference can be small or very large when just using terms like soft, medium, or hard. For this test, at the time I was using the predator victory tips. The victory soft has a hardness reading of 75.3, while the hard came in at 85.3.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Theory certainly predicts that the longer contact time with a softer tip should cause more deflection (unless it is less dense and lighter, which tends to cancel the effect). See the section at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@Watchman-co8es Рік тому

thanks dr dave!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

You're welcome. I aim to swerve (regardless of the tip hardness). :)

@DigiTuben Рік тому

Great video! Although I disagree, you can hit the ball further on the outside with a soft tip, which would cause more spin. Also less miscues with soft.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks. That sounds reasonable, but it is not true based on the explanations, videos, and links here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@xeyedsurfer Рік тому

I will try this for no other reason than to ingrain the miscue limits of my cue/tip combination.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Good idea.

@ericenfield2193 Рік тому

I definitely don't have the depth of knowledge that you do, but this mostly confirmed my anecdotal findings that hardness doesn't have the effects that some think it does. Maybe a good way of putting it would be that softer tips are more forgiving of error and stroke deficiency?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

"Softer tips are more forgiving of error and stroke deficiency" is another false myth. All factual differences are listed here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@ericenfield2193 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards interesting... thanks for taking the time to put all this info up! I'm still pouring through all of it, but will make it a point to watch this.

@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020 Рік тому

This seems to beg the question what tip gives the best overall performance. I assume ability to hold chalk, ease of maintaining shape, and efficient transfer of power could be evaluated. Of course, feel and sound would vary from person to person so ignoring that how did you pick the tip for your playing cue?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I prefer a harder tip per the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020 Рік тому

THANKS

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@beatyourbrotherbilliards9020 You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)

@joemeskey8918 6 місяців тому

Very nice video. Your tests appear valid when applying sidespin with a nearly level stroke. Your conclusion, though, that tip hardness doesn't matter much may not hold true in other stroke scenarios. In particular, consider a situation in which you must apply significant backspin at distance (e.g., a straight shot with the object ball 8-10' feet away). In such a scenario, a different and more complex set of variables and constraints come into play. For example, depending on the cue ball's distance from the rail, a nearly level stroke that will apply backspin may not be possible. The cue's angle of descent with a hard stroke affects tip compression, and may lead to differences between hard and soft tips in these sorts of shots. Have you done any tip hardness comparison tests involving power draw at distance?

@DrDaveBilliards 6 місяців тому

I'm glad you liked it. I have done test for other types of shots. See the video and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Enjoy!

@stevemarion9591 Рік тому

Dr.Dave your spot on the wall video is great, if I shoot hard it comes up short, shoot easy it drops right in. Here is my question, what do we do when where in a game and the object ball is not even close to the spot on the wall? My mind could be going blank, is there a method when the oBject ball is nowhere near a spot on the wall.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

It doesn't matter where the OB is. You still aim it at the particular "spot on the wall" for the type of bank you are hitting. For more info, see the videos and other resources here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/

@markfleener9844 Рік тому

People debating whether or not tip hardness effects the amount of spin reminds me of the guys telling me not to drink distilled water cause it lacks minerals, but wow, so why do we like soft tips? The feel of a new one is just amazing to me, seems to provide more grip, or be less likely to miscue, but idk, wears in pretty quick, mushrooms out (even if burnished on the side), maybe it would be better to get a harder one? Why shouldn't I?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Hard tips do offer advantages per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@DaveSpicerUK Рік тому

Thanks Dr Dave. I've been on a cue journey and read your resource along the way as it helped explain why i liked using non traditional cues. Coming from a snooker and blackball background, I moved into American cue sports and used my 8mm ash pool cue for about a year. It played really well but had a limitation or two. I then moved to the mainstream cues but they never felt right. I then started playing with my pheonolic tip break cue, loved it. So with all this cue type experience I learned that I like a small diameter tip, medium to firm hardness. I'm currently having a custom cue built which is pretty much what Mark Grey uses, 10mm, Ash etc. I'll probably review the cue on UKposts in future. So thanks again, it always nice to have the data. There's a lot of myths and marketing narrative which can be quite confusing. 👏

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

If you want to see more common pool myths debunked, see: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/

@ashtonsodope3947 Рік тому

I was having a conversation with a guy that makes custom cues, his take is that the softer “grips” the cue better depending on the stroke and speed…. Hence more spin.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Send him this video and try your own tests. There are many pool myths out there: billiards.colostate.edu/myths/

@ashtonsodope3947 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards I most definitely will…. I tried to explain to him that there’s no noticeable difference so this video will definitely backup my claim!

@raymondgirardtan4978 Рік тому

Nice explanation. Are there small differences in miscue limits for the three tips?

@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth Рік тому

Good question.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The maximum spin I was able to get with each tip was the same, so the miscue limit is the same. I didn't show the chalk marks on the ball in this video, but I did check them after every shot. They were all similar to the image I showed at the beginning from the earlier testing video.

@louieatienza8762 Рік тому

Interesting. However you bring up the point about tip hardness versus energy transfer 'efficiency." So to effect the same spin and speed with each cue, you would have to adjust your stroke to a slightly different speed. I can conclude from this that if one has generally a firmer stroke, they may be more comfortable playing with a soft tip. Conversely, if a player is more finessed or has a slower stroke, they may prefer the harder tip. I do play with a hard tip, and I find when the tip is softer I have a feeling of needing to "hit" the ball harder to generate the same cueball shape I can achieve with a harder tip and smoother stroke.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The difference in energy transfer among typical playing-cue tip hardnesses is not very large (the difference is larger with a break cue with a phenolic tip), but it is a small factor.

@stephenshupe8636 Рік тому

What about the aiming point for each of the tips? Is it different? If so, how does that factor into the results of the test? Are the differences between the tips further minimized/reduced by using a different aiming point. Thanks you for all the great videos!

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

As I mentioned and demonstrated in the video, each shaft had a different amount of CB deflection, so I did need to aim slightly differently with each. The aim was verified by making sure the CB was sent over the foot spot or to the golf tee on the rail. Concerning contact point on the ball, if you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts (some will be miscues if you are pushing the limit), you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are.

@tomburns890 2 місяці тому

Good video. I agree with spin off a rail is no better with a soft or hard or medium tip. Everyone does know that the harder the tip the more prone to miss cue. Now for straight cue ball to object ball draw shots have you done a comparison on that? Again the harder the cue the more prone to miss cue than soft tip and because a soft tip sticks on the cue longer it’s easier to put more draw on the ball with less miscues. Have you done a video of straight draw shots (not cue ball spin off the tail like this video) comparison between these 3 cues? Thanks

@DrDaveBilliards 2 місяці тому

I have tested draw also. See everything here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@ronaldmeeks4653 Рік тому

I have been working with the theory that the tips do not impart more spin but that a "grippier" tip wil move your miscue limit out thus creating more spin. Take bottom for an example. It is possible to hit all the way down with the tip just off the cloth and not miscue. This,depending on tip size,is way outside the normal comfortable miscue limit. Albeit there is increased deflection but still spin by and large should be greater.

@ronaldmeeks4653 Рік тому

The tip size affects your perceived amount of spin as the actual contact point is different from the centerline of shaft. A large tip will have to be visually further from center to get the same contact point. Small but perceivable difference fooling some into thinking they are getting more spin or are able to go further out than others while in truth the contact points are the same. This should be noted for peoples attention. Also this affects describing shots. One tip of english ,strokes being similar, will vary if tip size is very different. I suppose tip shape, dime verses nickel also factors in.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

All good points. For those who want to learn more or see illustrations and demonstrations, check out: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/maximum/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/tips-and-percentage/

@brettsmith9910 Рік тому

Another great video

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thanks.

@_Ramen-Vac_ Рік тому

Obviously seems the hardest tip with slow speed, max spin, is a tad harder to cue speed control. Myths have to do with personal preferences and opinion, and this kind of makes the task and display of busting them, redundant and even less moot? idk, leave your reply in the ... wherever it makes sense. 😁

@otis84031 Рік тому

I’d be very interested in the % of miscues between the tips. I try not to but there have been incidents where I accidentally continue to play with my break cue. What is a dead giveaway is when I eventually miscue and end the inning. I mean, my first thought is… we’ll if the tips are all the same, why not just play with a hard time, which is more consistent over time. The problem with a soft it is that it hardens over time as you play. So to keep that consistency you need to replace them frequently… why?!? But it would make to play with a soft cue if you’re miscuing all the time.

@otis84031 Рік тому

Good night! Type-os all over the place… sorry * a dead giveaway of that mistake is when I miscue *play with a hard tip *would make sense to play I currently play with a kamui soft and I think my next replacement I’ll go with a kamui medium, to try and achieve more consistency as the tips wears

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

If you chalk properly and often enough (e.g., before each shot), and if the tip holds chalk well, there should be no difference in the % of miscues. During my filming, I think I got a few more miscues with the break cue tip (BK hybrid), but not when I chalked carefully. Phenolic tips do not hold chalk as well, so you do need to chalk them with care if you plan to use them for close-to-maximum-spin shots.

@otis84031 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards that’s a reasonable explanation, thanks Dr Dave!

@Brian-nu8ss Рік тому

Dr Dave, what tip hardness would you recommend for a regular playing cue, if I don't have much preference for how it feels in my hand? It sounds like, perhaps counterintuitively, the best cue tip even for a playing cue is a hard (e.g., phenolic or hard leather) tip, because it transfers energy best to the cue ball and therefore one can play high-speed shots, such as long draw shots (which I have a lot of trouble with--I lose accuracy too fast when I hit hard...), with slightly less cue power.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

This is a personal preference sort of thing, but I prefer a hard tip (maybe not phenolic hard, but hard leather) for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@jamesec1949 Рік тому

Dr. Dave, I wish you had shown draw shots that are quite evident using different tips. Also what is your preferred cue and tip combo. You don’t have to mention a manufacturer unless you choose to. I’m thinking more in weight, width, high or low deflection and tip shape. Thanks. James

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The miscue limit is the same for draw shots as it is for sidespin shots and the action of the hit is no different. What is different is that draw shots require more speed, so a harder tip offers a slight advantage. For lots of info on the topics you mentioned, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/carbon/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/ I prefer a hard tip on an LD CF shaft with a small diameter and dime radius.

@mahmadoable Рік тому

Million 👍 Super informative You should establish a complete curriculum, taught through an institute.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I kind of have that already: billiarduniversity.org/instruction/school/

@skiman863 Рік тому

There's been lots of back and forth on this. The one thing we noticed is that people that tend to use lots of English use mostly soft tips and people that don't use lots of English tend to use a medium. I use lots of English and can say I miss cue a lot more with a medium or hard tip. It might just be do the feel of the hard tip vs the soft tip.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Many pros use hard tips. For the reasons why, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@Kalerix9999 7 місяців тому

Im finding alot of videos on playing cue tips but not many on break cue tips, im switching from a bakelite tip to a saramasa all leather break top hoping it can take chawlk better do you have any recommendations on break tips/chawlk?

@DrDaveBilliards 7 місяців тому

I like the BK-Hybrid tip on Predator break and jump cues. Master chalk works fine. For more info on chalk, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/

@rauldavila8632 9 місяців тому

Im guessing Dr.Dave uses a Kamui clear medium for his everyday cue? Thats my best guess. Its a very versatile tip

@DrDaveBilliards 9 місяців тому

I am currently playing with a a triangle tip, but I honestly don’t have a strong preference; although, I do like a harder tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@rauldavila8632 9 місяців тому

@@DrDaveBilliards I've never played with a triangle tip. Tiger everest is a harder tip that doesn't mushroom. Excellent cue control for it's hardness. After trying several I'm beginning to think it's one of the best. Thanks to you I was able to change my own and try several out. Take care

@thetowndrunk988 Рік тому

I’d love to see what effect, if any, shaft deflection and different types of chalk have on spin.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

They don't. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/chalk/comparison/

@thetowndrunk988 Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards awesome. Thanks for the info

@12345678974808 Рік тому

Pushing limits tells you only a part of the story. while yes both can achieve only so much, what about achieving a full gradient of angles, what about consistency of success, what about cue ball position control. As Dave pointed out at the start of this video tip hardness does affect the power transfer, and this game is a game of feel. Maybe a more interesting topic would be what playstyle would benefit (if any) from a change in tip hardness. Since the tip softness does create a larger imprint maybe it is more forgiving for inconsistent cue action, maybe a harder tip can achieve more precise spin effects but is harder to hone and master. I know I would love to watch that kind of analysis.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@BrendonGS Рік тому

Excellent video as always... Can you make a video comparing the different brand of tips and whether there's any real difference between them?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Hardness is the most important difference. Many tests have been done for different brands. The results can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/chart/

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

IMO, as long as a tip holds chalk well, it is fine.

@BrendonGS Рік тому

Thank you for the resources and reply

@si98justme1 Рік тому

That probably would be interesting, but I don’t think it would yield the results you’re looking for. There is a lot to pool, and feel (psychology) is a massive part of it. There is no one right answer… as this video shows (indirectly). What matters: is what brand/style/hardness etc make you feel when you play, and often that translates into how confident you are in the game and how “well” you think you’re playing. If you play long enough and even get to the point where you feel invincible cause you have got the “best” (for you) gear, then get crushed in a competitive game, you quickly realise it’s not so much about what you are doing right, as much about what you’re doing wrong. If that makes sense…

@skmalladi Рік тому

The ACS, BCA, and APA need to get their act together and grant you an honorary PhD in pool/billiards. Also, maybe - just maybe, Dr.Dave for president? Why not, I say?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Thank you. BTW, a fun little fact is: I already do have a "Doctorate of Pool" (DP) from the Billiard University: billiarduniversity.org/testing/alumni/

@roydimmy6081 Рік тому

Indeed yes. Just like a cue with a wrap or without a wrap will shoot the same. Yes, indeed. But you know the big difference for many players? The feel. The sound. The feedback of a certain tip on a certain shaft on a certain cue. Maybe softer and harder isn't about the grip or the spin, but just about the feel?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Agreed. Some people care a lot about "feedback" and "feel." I don't per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ I just care about where the CB goes and with what speed and spin amount.

@Cody2nd 7 місяців тому

I’ve been playing for a year and getting my first cue, I’ve decided to invest in a pretty decent one as I’ve stuck with the game and play a lot. Is there a benefit of having a hard tip over a soft or medium?

@DrDaveBilliards 7 місяців тому

I prefer a hard tip for the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@joezanella3787 Рік тому

So in your opinion, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a softer tip? You mentioned the small increase in a chance for a delayed miscue. Aside from that is it just a matter of preference?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

All advantages and disadvantages of soft and hard tips are summarized and explained here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@chili015 Рік тому

I mentioned in your last video, I did a maximum draw test using my Revo w/ Kamui supersoft tip and my BK Rush w/ hybrid tip. I performed 10 draw shots with each and took the overall average distance, as well as the best result of each one. The winner was actually the BK Rush with the very hard tip by about a 1/8 diamond's worth of distance (both average and best). I concluded the results were close enough to call it basically even if I account for some margin of error of maybe just catching a better hit a couple of more times with the Rush... but outside of that, it was very obvious to me that shaft and tip mean very little when talking about cue ball spin/action. It's all about the shooter's timing and acceleration through the ball.

@chili015 Рік тому

To add... because my BK Rush shaft and my playing cue Revo shaft are very similar in appearance, I one time accidentally put the Rush shaft on my playing cue and played an entire match with it (because I played with earbuds in and couldn't hear the sound it was making). I won that match and didn't really notice anything different about any shots I hit. I got all the action I would have expected with my Revo.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I was honestly a little surprised the BK Hybrid tip did so well in the comparison.

@parashararamesh4252 Рік тому

I wonder if there's a robotic arm/mechanical way of recreating the same stroke. Would be better for experiments like this because the human factor how ever negligible can't be ignored.

@Bigladle Рік тому

Humans hit pool balls not robots. And he checked the exact chalk mark where he hit it ensuring accurate strike points like my god how much more proof do you need

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

As I point out in the video during the testing at the end, if you push the miscue limit and try enough shots, eventually you will achieve maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad you play.

@Krushard Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards We appreciate and trust your work! It's not about criticism, the automatic arm that strikes the ball is simply inevitable iteration in attempt to exclude variables for the future experiments. Since you've already got such a high authority status of an innovator in pool community, you're the one who is in the best spot to invest in such rig. No doubt it will bring the content to the whole new level, by "adjacent possible" principle.

@parashararamesh4252 Рік тому

@@Bigladle I didn't mean any disrespect to Dr Dave.. It was just a genuine random thought 😄

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@parashararamesh4252 I didn't take it as criticism or disrespect, I was just explaining how a machine is not required to get good results for the tests at the end of the video. Also, machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@trailprice Рік тому

I would like to see one more test. Please show that maximum draw is identical with all three hardness's.

@si98justme1 Рік тому

That is a great idea. While my experience definitely is in line with Dave’s for side spin, I do think that a softer tip might make a much bigger difference in draw and Masse shots, as the contact duration might be long enough to overcome more friction between cloth and cue ball. Since maximum draw is a relative term (ie backspin), it might even be interesting to see that draw happen with maximum elevation of the cue.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The action of he hit with bottom spin is no different than the action of the hit with sidespin. What is different with a draw shots, is more speed is often required. Because a harder tip has a slightly better hit efficiency (energy transfer), a harder tip will offer a slight added advantage over a softer tip, where slightly more CB speed will retain slightly more backspin on the way to the OB. But getting good draw is more about stroke technique than equipment. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@si98justme1 Maybe for masse, but not for draw. With a draw shot, the CB is off the tip before significant CB-cloth/table interaction occurs. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/physics-advice/

@si98justme1 Рік тому

Thanks for the input. Yeah for a “conventional” draw shot your video does prove that hardness as negligible effect at best. However you don’t need to play a conventional draw shot, there is another way to draw the cue ball, using a Masse style cue action, except instead of “curving” the cue ball, you play it straight towards the object ball. Not the easiest shot, due to awkward cuing and the tendency to squirt the cue ball in unintended directions, but I have personally played this shot many times, with dramatically better draw action than a conventional draw. Especially when I find myself needing the cue ball on the other end of the table and I don’t have the space to use a conventional draw, with follow through, between the object and cue balls. I tend to use a soft tip for this type of shot because I assume it is better for it, however seeing the results you’ve shared, has made me think it might be interesting to see if harder tips can work just as well. Anyway, if this does prove worth exploring and experimenting on, I would highly recommend getting a few business cards or sheets of card stock to use as protection for your table’s cloth.

@trailprice Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards You are claiming that side spin and bottom spin are no different and I don't disagree. Why not demonstrate that as definitive proof? Use a phenolic tip and a soft tip and show that you can draw just as well with either one. In both cases the stroke technique would be negligible (yours in both cases). I suspect you can't demonstrate this and it's because the miscue limit with the phenolic is too close to the center. It's not that your are wrong in your claim but the huge difference in miscue limits would play a huge role in the amount of draw you could impart. If you still disagree, I just challenge you to demonstrate it with no editing.

@NoLimitBamBam Рік тому

I remember you did a video on safeties and used the jump cue to kill action on the cueball to freeze the cueball behind a blocker. For some reason, the jump cue (which has a harder tip) killed the cueball roll much more efficiently than a playing cue. So then why is that?

@new2POOL208 Рік тому

Probably easier to accidentally apply spin with a softer tip. Covering more area, allows for more room for error maybe? Also becomes more accurate where you're trying to hit 🎯 on the cue, pinpoint. Guessing

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

You might be referring to a video where I used a jump cue to help avoid a double hit (because it is much lighter). It was probably one of the videos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/foul/double-hit/ or maybe it was this shot in my "Top 10 Useful GAME-WINNING SHOTS You Need to Know" video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/aaJ7iqierWZ_wmQ.html

@NoLimitBamBam Рік тому

@DrDaveBilliards yup that was the shot with the jump cue right about 11:20 in the video you linked. Glad you linked it cuz I went looking for it. Seemed like the jump cue's hard tip took the English off of the cueball. I guess I could be wrong. I've always thought the hard tip tales English off the cueball. You're making me questions things

@Mickster114 Рік тому

Had no idea the contact size would differ, that’s interesting. So would a soft tip be “easier” to shoot with technically since it has a greater contact size? Curious

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

No, unless the tip is not holding chalk very well. For more info, see the "contact patch size" discussion here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@runningside Рік тому

That is a great research Dr. Dave! But I really don't understand one thing. When you talking about spin, why are you put 100% attention on side spin and didn't even mention back spin? I think that every decent player can apply enough sidespin for his purposes with any tip, but many people struggling with draw. So here is where soft tips comes into play with its longer contact with the CB and increased spin transfer. Guys use soft tips for better draw, and not for 5 more rebound degrees I believe. There is no way that soft tips make no difference on a draw shot! I hope so 😅

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The action of he hit with bottom spin is no different than the action of the hit with sidespin. What is different with a draw shots, is more speed is often required. Because a harder tip has a slightly better hit efficiency (energy transfer), a harder tip will offer a slight added advantage over a softer tip, where slightly more CB speed will retain slightly more backspin on the way to the OB. The key to getting good draw is stroke technique, not equipment. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/draw/advice-and-drills/

@lo0ksik 4 місяці тому

Hey drdave. You have any info on tall cue tip effects ?? Is there any diference?

@DrDaveBilliards 4 місяці тому

A few bullets on my tip hardness resource page deal with tip height effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@bassinbilliards6279 Рік тому

Nobody can convince me that my Super Soft Kamui has the same effects as a Hard. My miscues are significantly less than before with tip care & maintenance. Also the ability to throw an object ball with ease and hold the cue ball is noticeable different.

@barryclark2582 Рік тому

Spot on ... Soft tips will provide more control especially when using bottom and side spin at the same time... I use 11 mm blue diamond tips and change it every 6 months they're not expensive and hold chalk for 3-4 shots ( save's chalk )

@jamesnewcomer5963 Рік тому

Mans did a whole video with demonstrations and physics explanations and experiments, inspired by his years of studying cue ball physics and his LITERAL DOCTORATE IN PHYSICS. "Nah, I'm gonna believe what I want to believe despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Because reasons."

@mikewest712 Рік тому

Kinda crazy how expensive it be finding your correct shaft and tip combination to find your best fit.

@eastorange89 Рік тому

Ask friend to borrow cue

@si98justme1 Рік тому

Doesn’t have to be. Focus on the stuff you do control (shot selection, cue control, aiming, stance, planning etc) first then worry about what makes you comfortable. I’ve seen people who will pick up a house cue with a loose weight, a shiny tip and a bent shaft, run out all 15 balls (8ball) with consistency, so if you want to play pool well, and hustle/go pro/ whatever, then you should get the basics right before you start focusing on the equipment you play with, cause chances are, it’s not the equipment that’s your (and my, in fairness) problem.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@si98justme1 Agreed. The player is much more important than the equipment. See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/selecting/

@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth Рік тому

Dr Dave, I use a soft tip 12. When I'm hitting a soft shot the requires max spin, I sort of turn my cue sideways and jab it with the edge of the tip. It creates phenomenal amount of spin. Have you ever experimented with this technique? You can't hit it hard like this is the only problem.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/swoop-swipe/

@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards thanks! One more question. Traditionally it is taught to have a level cue and I've seen you mention this alot. I've been watching hours of pro tourneys and they all play with a jacked up cue (not as level as they could make be). It's almost like they set their bridge hand as if they are playing off the rail (same level). Whats your thoughts on this doc?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

@@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth The cue is never level because it needs to clear over the rails. And for draw shots (with a low tip), the cue is elevated even more. And if the grip hand is close to a rail, extra elevation is required so you don't hit the rail during the stroke. And on the break, many players drop their elbow and raise the tip during the stroke so they need to elevated more and aim lower before the stroke.

@tshymt Рік тому

I'm afraid that I think you have failed to mythbust. The hypothesis you tested was "Tip softness affects maximum limit of spin." But I think the myth "softer tip put more spin on the ball" is not about maximum limit. Because most of the players don't know actual maximum limit (that is why you had to invent that clever method in the video), so the myth cannot be about it. What they know and evaluate with is "amount of spin/effort" ratio. In other words, "It's EASIER to put more spin with softer tip." It's quite hard to identify what is "effort" or "easy" in this context, but there's something leads us to feel "easier." It's maybe wider impact point (patch) makes permissible range of error wider, maybe the difference in feel of impacts makes stroke adjustment for consequential shots easier, or maybe we just biased by the myth. Mythbusting is always harder than it seems.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

"It's EASIER to put more spin with softer tip" is also a myth. For detailed explanations and additional proof, see the follow-up videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@minggoenarso Рік тому

That’s why I have always liked a hard tip on my cue. It produces the same amount of spin with a soft tip, but transfers more energy. Thank you Dr. Dave. Can we expect a comparison for different weights of cues in the future?

@gsnicholas8522 Рік тому

And hard tips give a cleaner more crisp hit.

@minggoenarso Рік тому

@@gsnicholas8522 right on! I prefer the feed back that hard tips give compared to soft ones.

@gsnicholas8522 Рік тому

@@minggoenarso same here. I've been playing with water buffalo tips for 20+ years for this very reason.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Concerning "feedback," see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/feel/ Concerning cue weight, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/weight/

@minggoenarso Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards thank you 🙏🏼

@barryclark2582 Рік тому

Fortunately kamui haven't stopped making their soft and medium tips . Elkmaster and blue diamond tips are still available. For beginners a change to a softer tip stops accidentally jumping the White and allows them to improve their techniques before going to hard tip's one would expect the company's do research on a much larger scale and provide different grades for a reason !

@pioneert90 Рік тому

Softer tips improve miscues n jumping??

@barryclark2582 Рік тому

@@pioneert90 hi Barry here soft tips reduce the possibility of miss cue causing white ball accidentally jumping as you hit lower

@navjot4086604 Рік тому

Does it make sense to use a very light cue 14 oz with very soft tip? This might help significantly increase margin of error for underhitting Or overhitting. This is probably because cue ball distance travel varies with square of hit efficiency

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

… only for slow, finesse shots.

@freakoffear3823 Рік тому

New question… does tip width effect the amount of spin? My buddy believes a 13 mm gives less spin than a 11.75. When I shoot with either I agree

@si98justme1 Рік тому

That’s actually very easily answered. The 13mm has a wider diameter so the contact point would be more towards the centre of the cue ball (very slightly) than the 11mm, if the centre of the cue is at exactly the same point for both. In essence, you would need to adjust what you think is the contact point slightly further out to achieve the same contact point as the 11mm. I’ve seen this effect and personally have had experience with using a 4mm tip vs 8mm.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

See: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

@dazmill697 Рік тому

I would have argued till the cows come home that a softer tip would allow more side spin, now I'm eating humble pie after seeing this.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

I respect your honestly. For even more proof, see the other videos and detailed explanations here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@nakkadu 3 місяці тому

So is there any advantage to a softer tip? Or would it make sense to use a harder one that will last longer and maybe be more consistent?

@DrDaveBilliards 3 місяці тому

I prefer a harder tip for all the reasons here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@C64TV Рік тому

I agree with just about everything in this video, but I have a question nevertheless; why do so many trickshot artists (Venom is a good example) insist on using soft tips?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

The main reason is highly-elevated masse shots. They work much better with soft tips per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/masse/cue/

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

For more info, see my follow-up video and other info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@IndianHeathen1982 3 місяці тому

I am very upset right now. I sent my 12.4 revo shaft to Thailand to get it retipped. It will be back in a week. In the meantime, I have been playing with my BK rush. It does everything that my P3 does and as a bonus, I can jump with it because of the hard tip. I am wondering why I even have a separate break cue and playing cue. Dr. Dave please tell me why pool cue companies pull this wool over our eyes. So frustrated.

@DrDaveBilliards 3 місяці тому

The BK Hybrid tip is "versatile;" but most people still prefer the better finesse control (and better chalk sticking) offered by a "playing cue tip." For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@joedel9337 Рік тому

Awesome ! I’ve just always thought softer tips add more spin bc it’s able to “grip the cue ball longer” bc of the tip being softer

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

That's what the myth has lots of people thinking, but the myth is simply false. If you want explanations, see the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/

@theasianone3327 Рік тому

Are there any actual benefits or drawbacks to different tips then or is it all just what feels best to the player?

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

Hard playing tips offer slight advantages per the info here! billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/hardness/ Abut the decision is mostly “personal preference” and “feel.”

@john_vin Рік тому

@Dr Dave, they might dispute the fact that your shooting arm is not consistent like a robot and hence "bias" to prove your point. i.e. use a machine to definitively corroborate your point.I'm playing devil's advocate.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

As I point out in the video, if you push the miscue limit and take enough attempts, you will eventually get maximum spin, regardless of how good or bad a player you are. Also, testing machine results are not always very good. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/squirt/robot-test-results/

@john_vin Рік тому

@@DrDaveBilliards Cue manufacturers/ brands must hate you for bursting their USP bubbles. 😆

@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth Рік тому

Dr dave is a robot. 🤖

@john_vin Рік тому

@@KarlsCracklingCottonMouth more like a cyborg.

@DrDaveBilliards Рік тому

USPs work, regardless if the "marketing" is truthful or not.