Capitalism Hits the Fan Film Screening and Q&A with Professor Richard Wolff

Capitalism Hits the Fan Film Screening and Q&A with Professor Richard Wolff | The New School

14 років тому

GPIA Presents: Capitalism Hits the Fan Film Screening and Q&A with Professor Richard Wolff
THE NEW SCHOOL | www.newschool.edu
For more online lectures and classes by Prof. Richard Wolff, visit www.rdwolff.com/classes
Join Economics Professor Richard Wolff, University of Massachusetts, for a screening of his film, Capitalism Hits the Fan, and a Q&A. Professor Wolff breaks down the root causes of today's economic crisis and traces its source to the 1970s, when wages began to stagnate and American workers were forced into a spiral of borrowing and debt. By placing the crisis in this framework, Wolff argues that proposals for government "bailouts," offers of stimulus packages, and calls for increased market regulation will not address the real causes of the crisis. He suggests that far more fundamental change is necessary to avoid future catastrophes. Richly illustrated with motion graphics, Capitalism Hits the Fan is a superb introduction to the unraveling economic crisis for ordinary citizens.
Graduate Program in International Affairs (GPIA) | gpia.info
* Location: Anna-Maria and Stephen Kellen Auditorium, Sheila C. Johnson Design Center. 03/03/2010 6:00 p.m.

КОМЕНТАРІ: 170

@OMGAnotherday 5 років тому

I started to see takeovers of small companies in the 80’s (I was a sales rep selling to food companies in Scotland). Then the numbers of acquisitions increased rapidly, the purchasers.... (United Distillers - Now Diageo) (McVities - Now United Biscuits) etc., I could go on with many more names. Basically what I saw with my own eyes was lots of small companies getting bought over and either, shut down, production moved, or asset stripped. Only a few stayed open and even then those were left due to their long Scottish heritage, as the corporations could claim the continued heritage of the products and sell for a higher price in international markets. It’s still going on! Corporatism is the ugly head of the body of Capitalism!

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I've enjoyed having this conversation with you, I hope the feeling is mutual." I loved the part where you said you didn't like the IRS. That made the whole thing worthwhile. Tell your friends that I told them to stop playing video games or watching football and pay attention to their world once in a while. Our standard of living isn't automatic. It can go away.

@corners3755 4 роки тому

i agree with what hes talking about. But i wonder if wall street did play a large part in what we have for an economy and the 2007 crash when they got rid of Glass Steagall

@ijdrothman 12 років тому

One word. "Wow!" Nobody else is as articulate as Dr Wolff is in explaining our current economic condition. The facts speak for themselves. I can't see how you can disagree with his assessment. It sounds as if the capitalistic system is spiraling out of control and it doesn't seem as though those in power are facing it. It is as if we are all in a bus that is careening down a mountain road out of control and nobody has the courage to look outside the window. Keep spreading the truth Dr. Wolf.

@kevincarrigan635 8 років тому

Has Halliburton paid it's full measure of taxes, without loopholes ? They should be first in line to pay back the 99% for the war that benefitted them with "no-bid" contracts. Should we take massive mystery amounts of $ from them ???

@MarkoKraguljac 14 років тому

Great lecture. One thing in my opinion is lacking from last answer. Disparity of wages and productivity also helped as an instrument of forced demand. It disallowed workers to have monetary surpluses (thus being more independent) and subtly forced them to buy industry output. That supposedly helped growth of economy, as just one branch of consumerist doctrine. For modern capitalism to be successful, you need huge majority of people kept on bottom, desperate and essentialy poor.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@malkooth We are having a serious discussion about the benefits/drawbacks of capitalism. If you have anything meaningful to add, go right ahead.

@jimibeckert 12 років тому

Still valid today I would like to know why wages did not rise with productivity over the past 30 years. Globalization?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me I sympathize with you. My grandparents are in the same boat. But there are medical strategies other than pharmaceuticals which could be available to us. These have largely been pushed aside by the pharmaceutical industry--because they have bought the regulators whom everyone trusts to decide the best way to practice medicine. Government regulation of health care has enabled the very thing it was meant to prevent. Now we're stuck.

@MsInkling 10 років тому

So well explained! Interesting information. Thank you Prof. Wolff.

@Denimcreator 10 років тому

TRUTH! BRUTAL TRUTH! REALITY! BEST DOCUMENTARY EVER!

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "The banker bailouts were necessary." According to the bankers.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "then everybody owns the business" Would the business have a manager, or would everything be decided by voting? If a worker were promoted to manager, would he get a raise (above his fellows)? I'm still waiting for an answer: I know the before (wage laborers) and the after (owner laborers), what are the actions that will be taken to achieve it?

@jimibeckert 12 років тому

Right at the end he addresses the labor question. Great vid. I will look for more

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I never heard him complain about taxes." Complaining doesn't help much. Most people take taxation as a given fact of nature. As long as the tax increases are incrementally small, people won't even notice that they're being eaten alive. The politicians know that they can ignore complaints as long as they are few. And the taxes themselves create distortions in the marketplace--some people hit harder than others.

@GoSolar 13 років тому

Anyone know the source for the data regarding 150 years of rising real wages -- back to 1820? Thanks

@vgonis2002 13 років тому

@buzongtang I see your point, but there are so many aspects of the issue called Greece, that it is already hard for us to see through.Journalists say one thing, government another.then we have the journalists abroad, that praise the prime minister, who we blame the most. Ah,and when you hear about high wages and benefits, it is not the average that they announce. And in the rare case they do, it is about companies that really have a 10% of extremely well paid and 90% of under paid.700 enough?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Just think of the state as another business" The state has no customers, only subjects.

@vgonis2002 13 років тому

what he describes but doesn't say, is the word GREED. i don't agree with everything, but at least he asks the right questions.It is difficult to have free thinking, when you grow up in a family or a nation with ideas and fears of communism(i am talking Greece not USA) After all, that is why it is difficult for us common people, to come together and change things.It is the fear to depart from the cozy, familiar ideas we grew up with, that have turned into a matter of belief rather than logic.

@SecondLifeEnglish 14 років тому

Change Find Extended (thx for sharing :)

@MarkoKraguljac 14 років тому

All this was necessary till now. I believe that we now have options to make things better and abolish slavedom finaly.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "the assumption that people would eventually get trained up" That happens all the time. You might not have much job experience but I do. Every bit of experience you acquire on the job is a help toward improving your resume. I've done it and my coworkers have done it, always. Employers don't need to train you for most manual labor jobs, you learn as you go and you prove yourself. Doctor or lawyer or engineer is a different story, of course.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me You're right that infant mortality changes things a bit. But there were 16 workers for every retiree at the start of S.S. and there are less than 4 now. Eventually there will be only 2. Can't keep that up. Collectively bargain for drug prices? How is that supposed to help Medicare? But I do agree that the major drug companies have written the health care rules and regulations to give them undeserved dominance in the medical industry. They suck.

@ChrisNewsome 11 років тому

The reason he said that Communism never existed in Russia or China is because they only changed the form of government (welfare state) at the macroeconomic level. They did not however, change the way products were produced and distributed within each enterprise, which would have allowed the workers to own and direct all the businesses. Russia & China merely replaced capitalist boards of directors with government bureaucrats & left out the key microecon component of worker self-directed business.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "and people would collectively decide, according to some agreed upon rules/laws/guidelines" I'm sure that sounds tempting, people being able to collectively give themselves raises above their current levels (as well as making most other decisions collectively). I very highly recommend that you try that with one test company before you implement it nationwide (assuming that both options were available). I would highly appreciate a cautious approach.

@SHarviroc 12 років тому

Business and capitalism are not same thing.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "human rights are contingent on the decisions of judges . . ." I don't want that either. Rights aren't discretionary. The government's job is to protect your rights, not to grant you rights. A government that has the power to determine your rights has the power to take them away.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "legislation put in place that would at the very least balance power" Now we're getting somewhere. Here's one to start with: a law against fractional reserve banking. Another: a law against business subsidies. How about something more specific: repealing the rule requiring cab drivers to purchase $150,000 medallions in NYC. And: permitting people to work from home (nannies, for example). The possibilities are endless.

@JCResDoc94 11 років тому

Credit default swap is just insurance on debt huh? Well there you go.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "in a capitalist work relationship, you will never get paid equal to your true output." How do you determine what is a worker's true output and just compensation?

@whedonfreak976 11 років тому

A must see for everyone i really like Richard Wolfe.

@chingada47 13 років тому

Great video. It's too bad the audio wasn't better. Whoever miked him up should have checked the audio before filming.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me You don't need to know about sports to know that you're being ripped off. A robust jobs program would probably create some jobs. That would be easy to see. But you must look at what is not seen: what would have been done with the money for the program if the people who earned it were able to spend it themselves. Instead of politicians deciding what jobs to create, we'd have more real jobs in response to consumer demand.

@MoragTong 12 років тому

my god, richard wolff is remarkable.

@marcvongelb9970 10 років тому

Yes, you got it right, Credit default swap is insurance. The only problem is that any insurance by name is regulated by law, while so-called credit default swap is NOT at all regulated, and that is where the whole thing went wrong. 'Cause one can only fill in few lines here, sorry no details as to why is that, and you might wanna talk to your insurance law professors, and insurance professors, if you wanna find out why the whole mess came about.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "but that gold will always change it's value" That is true. Gold value will has fluctuated slightly over the centuries as supply and demand has changed. That's the market at work. I object to a money supply that changes according to whim rather than the market. Those who have the least wealth (such as those who depend on foodstamps) always suffer the most when the elite decide to change things in their favor on a whim.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Libertarians hate centralized authority." Actually, we hate the initiation of force. If a business owner whips an employee or secretly exposes him to harmful chemicals or pays him less than the agreed-upon salary/wage, then that is aggressive use of force. The only legitimate use of force is retaliatory force--either against a violent crime in progress or the government's apprehension and punishment of a criminal or repelling an invasion.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me There are 2 sides to the price of gold in the U.S. One side is gold and the other is the dollar. If you look more carefully you will notice that the dollar is the one that has been drastically changing since 1970 (actually, since 1913). The more worthless the dollar becomes, the more of them you will need to buy an ounce of gold. Gold is much more stable, that is one reason why it makes such a good currency.

@wcropp1 11 років тому

What's frustrating is the chicken vs. egg nature of modern economics--some blame the government, others blame business. The world has never seen democratic socialist planning, nor has it seen a market absent of government influence. Who knows what the results would be. It seems, overall, that government does more for business than it does for the people (though I'm not sure this necessarily has to be the case). However, it seems businesses can have perverse incentives free market or otherwise.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "If it's not my business then why did you ask me." Because you clearly do consider it your business. I'm trying to understand how and why. Settle for less freedom? Working for a boss is a trade. Your time for their money. There is mutual benefit there (the win-win I was talking about). I don't see any lack of freedom in such a scenario. But some people with particular skill and drive choose to be self-employed. Freedom of choice.

@Buddhabebop 11 років тому

For we have only our chains to lose.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Education, healthcare, a job" Yes, I disagree with those for a simple reason. If you have a right to education, then teachers are your serfs. They must teach you whether they want to or not. That is wrong. Same for healthcare. You are confusing rights with values. Healthcare is a value, like food, shelter, entertainment, transportation, etc. If you are claiming a right to a value then you are claiming the right to the labor of the person who supplies it.

@draoi99 12 років тому

Workers of the world unite!

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@malkooth Are you trying to make me angry? What for?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "don't own yourself the way you own a house" What does it mean to own something? It means that only the owner may decide what is to be done with it. This is crucial: if you can't decide what you can do with your own body, then somebody else will. A person who doesn't own his own body is a slave. If you understand and desire freedom, then self-ownership is the most important thing you can have, followed by having air to breathe and water to drink.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Your vision of society would have us all be beggars, kneeling before the feet of the elite, praying for a pittance." Is that what you're afraid of? That's what happened during the age of monarchy (when the king owned everything). I am talking about a society in which every individual has the power of a king. Everything you own is yours and only yours, starting with your body. Nobody has the power to take your wealth/time/life.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "we shouldn't pay people less than a living wage" As I said before, minimum wage causes unemployment. $5 is better than $0. If you want that $5 to have more purchasing power, then I suggest you consider lowering the overall tax burden. Consumers are the ones who end up paying most of the taxes, because they are added to the cost of most consumer goods. It would also help tremendously if inflation was eliminated (people at the bottom suffer the most from it).

@randyterpstra5928 11 років тому

well said. the original force & direction of the Russian Revolution was lost after Lenin's stroke & Stalin's successful consolidation of power to repress the Left Opposition.

@Ponyjon 12 років тому

Nikita Khrushchev was right, "capitalism contains the seeds of it's own destruction". So did Communism. So what is left? Socialism is left and it's working better in Northern European countries, in every metric, than what we do here in the US.

@tomasinacovell4293 5 років тому

This is just a lecture, where can I see the film?

@TheGoodNews01 11 років тому

It was state capitalism. Remeber Lenin's New Economic Proposal (NEP) during the Tenth partdy congress of 1920? Wherein he reintroduced capitalism into Russian society. If you want real socialism/communism look to the anarchist Free Territory of the Ukraine or the Spanish Revolution that Orwell wrote about. "As far as my personal preferences went I would have liked to join the Anarchists." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia page 116.

@SHarviroc 12 років тому

We like to call this monetary system capitalism, but its simply exploitation.

@OJYout 11 років тому

Education and Healthcare in America are poor because there's too much privatisation, not too little.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "What exactly have our taxes been used for that was immoral, other than wars of aggression?" War is a big enough reason for me. "Yeah, I don't mind a bit of coercion to do that." You can't use evil means to achieve benevolent ends. You lose before you begin. "cheap laborers in China were more valuable" Does your father want his business back?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "the freedom of workers to choose employers is nice, but not enough" How do you propose to rid the world of employers?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me This is as good a point as any to stop. I wasn't planning on talking about this forever, anyway.

@liasparks 11 років тому

"nothing left to bubble" HA....how about education?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "the freedom to commonly own your workplace" If you want to own your workplace, you'll need to either purchase the company you work for or build your own. "There was mutual benefit in slave societies too" You know as well as I do that there is zero benefit to being a slave. "Capitalism just lets you choose your house and your employer." There is more power in such choices than you realize. But don't forget the self-employment option.

@9avedon 11 років тому

The only crisis here is that the greatest demonstration of Democratic expression,the Free Market in 2008 was not allowed to eliminate social and corporate welfare.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "vulgar to me to even consider humans as property" To be somebody else's property, yes, that is quite vulgar. But to be your own person, that is wonderful. "We don't donate food or aid to property" Being a self-owner doesn't make you a thing. Having zero self-esteem or zero consciousness makes you a thing. Could you do me a favor and give me a definition or list of human rights. I want to know what you mean when you say it.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "a market is supposed to break the backs of failures and reward successes" A market is win-win. Nobody wins if successful businesses are drained in order to support obsolete businesses. The Pony Express went out of business for a good reason. Now we have the internet. Who knows what we'll have 100 years from now? And you can't really be against monopolies and in favor of government schools at the same time. That would be a contradiction.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Have workers own the business they operate in." How would you make the transition from a worker-as-employee to a worker-as-owner environment, exactly?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Centralized authority more often than not initiates force on someone." I agree. "someone who disagrees, and as a result, has force used against him" That is why democracy is immoral. "morally bankrupt to work as a wage laborer" Consider the communist alternative. If everyone owns the business, then nobody does. The hiring/firing process would be a nightmare. And if you get paid the same as everyone else, why do a superlative job?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I was making a comparison with property rights Vs. human rights." All human rights are property rights. You have a right to have food, clothing, medicine, shelter, etc. But you don't have a right to my food, clothing, medicine, shelter, etc. "house on fire and you're off to jail" If you commit insurance fraud, yes. "Govern your property, but don't govern me." What do you mean by "don't govern me"? I'm 100% willing to leave you alone.

@MarkoKraguljac 14 років тому

Poor in a sense that their input and output (no metter how big) have to be equal. Allowing people to save real wealth hurts capitalist economy (as they dont buy junk) and hastens decay of whole capitalist system. Capitalism in which everyone is slowly becoming capitalist is like a feudal state where everyone becomes feudal lord sooner or later. Its impossible cause majority (in this system) has to do what has to be done (dirty, boring, repetitive, subservient jobs).

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "As for the 500 word thing, guess what, you can make multiple posts." You said you wanted me to prove something. Which point did you mean? But be careful what you ask for.

@southsoundhomepros861 Рік тому

CRIME does not equal capitalism. But lack of prosecution does equal oligarchy

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Whenever you go to work for a capitalist, you will always receive less than you produce." If you give that worker back the money he pays to Social Security, Medicare, income tax, he'll be sitting pretty. And of course, if he really wants to get more wealth, he can start his own business. But not everyone likes the risk involved in self-employment, so they agree to work for someone who already paved the way. I say let them.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me If you truly own your home, then you can run it into the ground or set it on fire if you like. It's yours. Shut down a human for being sick? Where did you get that idea, ancient Sparta? "The self-ownership concept implies property, which in turn implies laws, which in turn implies governance." What's wrong with that?

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "without the money to pay for buildings, books, teachers" The answer to poverty is not to "just give them more free stuff." That is a trap. You can see so many poor Americans caught in that trap right now. We shouldn't be treating the poor like pets, we should be taking off their shackles. We should end the minimum wage and vocational licensing laws, which keep the poor from getting jobs. Return their school tax money and they will easily afford education.

@FletchforFreedom 13 років тому

"Factual." Oooo. Caught me in a typo. No, I do not consider all views inconsistent with my own void of any remote reality. There are any number of issues about which I do not know enough to make such a statement. With regard to the accusations you have made about capitalism (particularly "pro-authoritarian", which is a definitional impossibility, "anti-liberty" and "inefficient" - each of which are demonstrably aspects of socialism) there is no such problem.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me If a work force voluntarily agreed to work for an employer who paid them X while he earned Y, what for you would be the minimum acceptable difference between X and Y? This seems to be a very important issue with you and I would like some clarification. As you might expect, I think that the difference between X and Y is none of our business.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I'm all for that, but it's just not realistic" Then you're not really all for that. So, you don't like freedom and you don't like democracy when it's stacked against you. What do you really want?

@powelllapwert 11 років тому

what is capitalist ideology

@WInnerwinnerchickendinner. 10 років тому

Prof Richard Wolff was wrong about Great Britain.The GBP is the fastest growing currency in the world and the growth will be higher than Germany in 2014.But he did warn economist predictions are the same as The lady in amusement park.

@mhikl4484 9 років тому

***** Yupstir, Marius. All democracies that follow the wagging tail are going down. GB is so close behind it gets poo in the eye, Canada and Australia are stepping into it. Chips and party hats at the ready for the big show. In the meantime Richard Wolff (middle initial D or P depending on ?), sets the stage. That someone is smart and actually cares is refreshing. Namaste and care, mhikl

@Ziggy84x 9 років тому

***** at Paul Nodalo...so where did you get your advance degree in economics and history? Just curious...

@chbrules 8 років тому

+Mhi kl You sound like Ron Paul and his gold-backed money pie in the sky dreams.

@nlsupernovaable 7 років тому

the gbp is doing real well lately....

@mhikl4484 7 років тому

chbrules Study takes time, chbrules. Know pre-and post- Roosevelt, his time and legacy, and what came after in the early seventies is an eyeopener; especially by those who experienced it. To be born two or three years before or after time X, made a whale of a difference. To experience both sides, to see the immediate decimation of opportunity, and then wonder how our youth, millennials are going to fare takes a heart. Heart and brain are a lost commodity, it seems; in our propagandize world. And it takes an open mind to look at that which one is uninformed. All sides must be studied. Namaste and care, mail

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "The people who produce and distribute gold will have control over the society" Gold is what it is, there's no changing it. When people trade in gold they are trading tangible value. Fiat currency is whatever the money monopoly men say it is. Huge difference. And if China digs up more gold than other countries, good for them.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "consumer demand is not going to employ everyone" True. Not if our hands are tied. "Capitalism is the new god figure." Perhaps for some. I am an atheist. I don't believe in gods, old or new. Reason is the only guide we need.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me Trying to help people is your intention but that's not what happens. We have given away over $9 trillion in entitlements since the 60's and what is the result? Poverty still rages. Welfare doesn't work. It can't work. Now, if it were entirely up to you, where would you set the minimum wage? $20, $30, $100 per hour? It should be obvious that wherever it's set, the people whose labor is valued below the rate cannot be legally employed. That's not fair.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Preventing workers from having a say in how the wealth they create gets distributed necessitates force." WTF? A business is a place of cooperation, not force. Everyone who works in a business does so voluntarily for an agreed-upon salary. If you think you can walk into a business and claim ownership just because you want it . . . good luck. Yes, self employment takes some money, but most of all it requires focus. It's not for everybody.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "So, we've had the same amount of crude oil since 500 a.d.?" Matter can be neither created nor destroyed. It merely changes form. The oil that we have used has been converted to CO2 and water, mostly. Those in turn have been consumed by plants. In a free market there will always be jobs available to those who want them. That is why so many immigrants came to America and found jobs (and created new wealth) in the 19th and 20th centuries.

@aninconvenientdeath 12 років тому

This video holds eternal truth, and as such, will NEVER be viral on youTube. The shame of it all is hard, cold truth is rarely sexy, provocative, or pop culture related. A video like this should have 10,000,000 views. But, honestly, if I were to film myself taking a crap into a mouth of a sleeping crocodile, it would be seen by the masses, Oh lord, is the world in trouble my dear friends...

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I want freedom, and liberty, and a strong society." If people need your approval (or the approval of Marxists in general) in order to engage in various peaceful activities then they aren't free. Leave us alone. Let's not wait for some theoretical "reasonable" time for freedom to be permitted. Freedom is the prerequisite for prosperity--just ask the average prison inmate.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "a handful of people deciding for the entire company" The owners/managers deciding what the company will be doing. That's right. If you want to start a company without leaders, be my guest. "Benevolent dictators" A company can't make you do anything. They must pay you to keep you on the job. Huge difference. "measures against insane corporate payouts" Then don't buy their crap.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me Worker produces $15,000 car. Worker gets paid $15,000. Is that what you want? How are you going to pay all of the other people who contributed to the creation of that car? The person who physically assembled the bumpers and windows of the car deserves a portion of the sale price, not the entire sale price. And if you think Social Security and Medicare will take care of you in old age, you're in for a rude awakening.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "give people the opportunity to have an equal education" The dinosaur education system we have today is producing unacceptable rates of illiteracy. One-size-fits-all education is undesirable. I seek separation of education and state, for the same reason that we established separation of church and state. The government can't manage education for millions any more than it can manage health care for millions. They're in over their head.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me They are asked to give up the right to property, of course. The secret is that all of your rights are property rights. You have a right to live your life as you see fit and to keep/trade/give away the wealth that you create. You own yourself. Under communism, you do not have rights, only privileges. Your life and property belongs to everyone except yourself. I don't think you would like that any more than I.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "Look up the Mondragon Corporation." I will. "people can rule themselves and the damn business too" Then what are you complaining about? Just move to Spain. I'll bet that many of them speak English, and you'll pick up Spanish in no time. If there was a perfectly capitalist country elsewhere in the world, I'd move there in a heartbeat.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "cautious approach to your small government, all market, no regulations" Capitalism is what happens when nobody tries to stop it. If you want to stop it, you'll need to shred the Constitution first. But you don't need to shred it, it's being done for you. All you have to do is wait. If things keep going as they are, you will win.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me Yes, people lose jobs in the world. But under capitalism (if only we really had it), more jobs are created than destroyed. If the light bulb puts candlemakers out of business, they can get a job elsewhere. In '08 I would have proposed that we end the Federal Reserve (the cause). It is much more practical and humane to lift the poor out of their poverty rather than try to structure our entire society to accommodate and prolong their hardship.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me I have nothing against this Mondragon company. It is a voluntary effort as far as I can tell. I also wouldn't object to a U.S. company doing the same thing, as long as it is voluntary. What I don't like is the idea that all companies should be compelled to follow this model. Like I said, capitalism is the absence of force. People can engage in any sort of economic activity they choose, as long as there is no theft or fraud. Keep it voluntary.

@uniloaderman 12 років тому

AT least we businessmen now know that you consider us "Enemies" You cannot ethically deny the attraction of people all over the world to America during the period of "laissez faire" The people MUST have preferred it to what you propose.

@FletchforFreedom 13 років тому

I'm not anti-capitalist at all. In fact, I was laughing rather heartily at the silly notions that capitalism is "pro-authoritarian, pro-vice, anti-compassion, anti-equality, amti-liberty, practically anti-human" since they are nothing more than emotional attacks supported by ... not a thing.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@malkooth You aren't nearly as articulate as HardHouseMusic4Me. Maybe you should sit this one out.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me A free person has the right to trade with anyone he wants, including with people in other countries. You have no right to stop that (every effort to do so will actually diminish our wealth). If you want to stop the hemorrhaging, then start by punishing those who authorized the banker bailouts under Bush and Obama. You want "good" people to be in power? I want the individual to be in control of his own life. Nobody can decide my future better than I can.

@timobrienwells 7 років тому

His productivity/wages chart is plainly wrong. Non farm productivity has only doubled since 1970, his data is trying to suggest that it has almost quadrupled.

@MisbehavingMal 13 років тому

@hanter012 Corporatism is direct government intervention in the market. People don't hate "mom and pop" businesses and flea markets; they hate corporations. Corporations weren't even supposed to exist in the United States, they were part of why we revolted. Just look at the East India Company(s). Capitalism means free trade, competition, and sound money, not managed trade agreements, government contracts, government subsidies and fiat money. Quit spreading nonsense.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "he got run out of business" Did he own his own shop? Did he make his own jewelry or sell jewelry made by others in America? Assuming that he had the talent and ambition, I'll wager that he could have kept his business if he had that other missing element: freedom. Small businesses have been struggling under an ever-increasing burden of taxation and regulation. He loses and we, the customers, lose. Now we must go to Wal-Mart for jewelry. Lame.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me "I don't appreciate the fact that you think I'm being fooled or something." I'm just telling you what I see. The basic difference between you and I is that you consider people to be unfit to live in freedom but fit to be the rulers of others. And please stop pleading for democracy. You don't like democracy any more than I do. For example: if the majority of Americans decided to completely end public schools, would you accept the decision?

@FletchforFreedom 13 років тому

You're right in one respect. That wasn't debate - that was religious dogma - kind of like the content of the lecture, which bears no resemblance to reality either.

@Shozb0t 12 років тому

@HardHouseMusic4Me When a man works for a car factory, he owns his paycheck. It's a trade. I give you some of my time and energy, you give me money. Simple. What I don't understand is how you can vilify the people who give the man money and praise the people who take it away by force (I've never met a Marxist who didn't love the IRS). Making a car is a complex endeavor requiring designers, managers, marketers, welders, etc. They all get paid differently. Get over it.