No yeah cinema sins is garbage now. When the channel first started a sin would be like "you can see the camera man in the shot" but now a sin is "oh they're talking too much in the movie"

Next time I flunk a test, I'll just tell my teacher it was a satire of bad test-takers.

Yeah, Obviously, I agree with 99.99% of everything you said. And the only thing I'll disagree with you on actually improves your point. I think that the Blade Runner sin IS an example of an intentionally wrong sin, almost stepping over into satire. (Playing the fool.) In fact, I feel like the idea that an EWW Blade Runner even exists is sort of an inside joke (I can't be sure, I can't even watch it, because...well you know.) But you know as well as I do that, while they can be lazy and disingenuous...maybe even deceptive at times, they're not idiots. They know that Blade Runner is based on Philip K Dick's work and that it essentially invented cyberpunk. Or was at least one of if not the first time futuristic sci-fi was mixed with dilapidation and grime on screen. But like you said, the problem is that I'm sure it isn't clear to a large portion of the audience. I just thought it was sort of funny that even someone like you (or me or Shaun) could miss it because it's that unclear. That's bad satire. If they renamed the channel Poe's Law, we'd all get the joke...well, once everyone googled it.

My biggest problem with cinemasins is that they try to play both sides. There’s interviews and podcasts where Jeremy basically says they’re just a group of guys making jokes about movies. On the complete opposite end there’s that video of Jeremy in his car after seeing some movie and going on about “THIS IS WHY WE MADE CINEMASINS. SO WE CAN CALL HOLLYWOOD OUT ON ITS BULLSHIT. THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS” and shit like that

The weirdest thing about the "it's supposed to be funny so you can't criticize it" defense is that there are countless occasions where Jeremy himself misunderstands a joke in a movie or takes it at face value (purposefully or not) as an excuse to sin it. So if you're not supposed to criticize things that are intended as comedy.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe I would actually take the "It's satire" argument if CinemaSins wasn't so painfully unfunny.

CinemaSins: * terrible criticism * Fans: Is this satire?

You know you’re old when you remember when the channel was called CinemaSinsSins

Someone who actually gives good criticism is civilly criticising CinemaSins. Thank you.

You can thank Leafy for every poorly written creator or cyberbully calling their work 'satire'

The "It's just satire!" argument also falls apart when Jeremy himself said he created CinemaSins to "call Hollywood out on its laziness and bullshit" in one of his videos. I think he also even made a CinemaSins video poking fun at some of the inaccurate sins he's made, which he wouldn't do if the point from the beginning was to be intentionally wrong.

One thing that always bothered me more than people calling it satire is people saying they don't want to watch a movie because "CinemaSins did a video on it." Like, do those people not get the point? Yeah CS does videos and crappy movies, but they also do videos on good movies. Their motto is "*no* movie is without sin" yet some people think that the second a movie gets on their channel it's automatically bad. You can't drag something like Star Wars or The LEGO Movie down to the level of The Emoji Movie or Hotel Transylvania, especially when most of the sins are half-assed like you mention. I suppose that's the exact opposite of the "it's satire" crowd. People taking the channel way too seriously instead of not seriously enough.

If cinema sins is meant to be comedy, where is the comedy? Its just 100% cringe

To be fair you have to be very intelligent to understand the genius of CinemaSins. The comedy is so subtle that only people with very high IQ can understand it.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I love the CinemaSins format! But I wish anyone but Jeremy was the one behind it. The format has a lot of potential but Jeremy is squandering it by hiding behind the weak defenses of comedy and satire, and it's disappointing. Great video, my man :D

If you do satire poorly, you just end up being the thing you're supposed to be satirizing. Even if the intent of Cinema Sins is to be a satire of poorly written, overly nitpicky failed attempts at criticism, they're going about it by being a poorly written, overly nitpicky failed attempt at criticism.

When Jeremy used to make actual reviews in his car a lot of times the incorrect points he would make it his reviews would end up in his CinemaSins videos. He wasn't trying to be funny he just got things wrong and never corrected himself

14:33 You are absolutely right about the Screen Junkies vid being better, but not just because of the writing, but by the performance and delivery by Jon Bailey. The man knows how to deliver serious lines and comedic lines, which help make his points and jokes easy to tell apart. Also, the man is a pretty good VA, being both Soundwave and Shockwave in Bumblebee and even Prime in the trailers. All in all, Jon Bailey is a legend.

"It's comedy, therefore it can't be taken seriously enough to be criticized!" From the wacky funsters who brought you "It's made for children, so it doesn't matter that it's crap!"

i hate how youtube shoves the cinemasins channel down my throat

I thought the "satire argument" was demolished years ago. Jeez some people are really stupid or are in denial

It’s amazing that nobody who defends Cinemasins as satire ever thinks “wait, what if this criticism of Cinemasins is satire too?!”

CinemaSins: playing the smartass for entertainment Fans of CinemaSins: you ruin CinemaSins by playing the smartass (12:45) #logic

Your best video yet, Jay. Keep up the great writing quality.

Remember when they took the "sins" part of the name literally and all the sentences were almost always "Hell"?

People go to such great lengths to avoid saying something that they like is bad. These 2 things are not mutually exclusive!. Cinema Sins is bad and I like it. The fact that I like Cinema Sins doesn't make it any better.

Wait a second, how did I miss rebrand 2: The Squeakuel?

If you watch any of Jeremy's non-Sins film thoughts, it becomes clear that CinemaSins is not satire, it's just what he thinks film criticism is.

The most irritating thing about people who defend CinemaSins (or any channel theyre a fan of) is how they’ll throw out statements like, “you just don’t get it”, and, “its satire and clearly not meant to be taken seriously”, or “you’re just a hater”, without a shred of so self awareness. The person criticizing the thing they live is always a monster devoid of reason, logic, or the right to have a chance to explain their opinion. And their points for why their favorite content creator are always so weak, to the point that they can easily be turned around on them and use as a defense for why they’re being unfair and bias towards the person that it criticizing their favorite content creator. It irks me to no end and literally gives me migraines. Surprised you hadn’t made this sooner. Great video as always mistah Jay. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna go sit down and clear my head with a warm glass of rhino milk! 😋

To the commenters who tell channels like Jay or Birdman not to criticise Cinemasins because “it’s comedy” . . . shouldn’t you also tell Cinemasins not to make videos on films like Central Intelligence or Bad Moms? They’re comedy too!

You should do cinnamonsins where you point out everything wrong with cinnamon.

The only possible thing they could be a satire of, is a satire of film critics. Unfortunately they don’t portray themselves as a satire of film critics, they just portray themselves as bad film critics

I sadly used to be one of those people using the "but it's satire"-defense. You see, that's before I learned the actual definition of satire.

My main thought with CinemaSins is this: If they do it for "comedy" or "satire," then how come 95% of the content in their videos isn't actually funny. Don't get me wrong, I like watching CinemaSins, so don't try to use that against me, comments.

I love how people assume that these kinds of videos and criticisms aren't humorous or enjoyable for people. We all have different tastes and senses of humor... some people blindly love CinemaSins. Some people actually get MORE enjoyment out of being correct when criticizing/making jokes about things. The idea that it's ok to be factually incorrect just because the intention is humor, but it's not ok to be factually correct also with the intention of entertainment baffles me.

I don't hate Cinemasins, and I actually still watch their channels, but I see where you're coming from. Great video! Edit: Wow! Thank you!

People who call CinemaSins satire, literally do not understand what satire is

You don't get it it's Satire

I absolutely despise cinemasins.

I think they say that they are a satire channel, because they don't want people to think that they make mistakes.

Hey jay I just subbed. I didn’t want to because I follow so many nerdy movie channels already but you made me laugh too many times (the one that won me over was the spider verse one XD). Keep up the good work my man!

*Video does not contain a lap dance*

I once saw a comment on one of their videos, which said something like „If Cinemasins made a movie, it would be completely flawless, right?“

Pitch Meetings > Cinemasins

Cinemasins be like: This secondary character has a background? BORIIIIING!!!!!!! *sin* This secondary character doesn't have a backstory? Aww, that's awful man i wanted to know every last minute of this guy nonrelevant to the plot *sin*

"its a joke it can't be criticized for it" looks at every cancelled comedian

The excuse that it's satire just exists to excuse the mistakes. I actually do think that jeremy thinks he's being satirical and some mistakes are deliberate. But many mistakes are not. And it's impossible to tell the difference. But I don't think this, itself is a mistake on his part. I think jeremy constructs his videos by trying to nitpick every single possible thing he can find "wrong" with the movie without any real regard as to whether it's legitimate. This means he doesn't have to do any research, he doesn't even have to pay attention to the film, he doesn't have any real obligations and he always has this fall back excuse, that I think he believes, that he is satirizing a nitpicky pretentious wrong asshole. When really, he's just being one, even if he happens to know he's wrong sometimes. But he thinks it's fine if he doesn't bother to verify anything and throws in wrong things because he can say it's satire. This, by the way, is something he will often sin if I am not mistaken. This trend in TV and film where creators think that pointing out what they're doing as a tired trope makes it okay to be doing that thing, as if it turns it into satire, when actually they're just doing the thing. It doesn't become satire just because it's self aware enough to know the trope that it falls under. Same for jeremy, just because he says "look I'm the nitpicky wrong asshole trope" doesn't mean he's not being a nitpicky, wrong asshole.

CinemaSins doesn't know how to make jokes with real movie criticism, and since a lot of people in their comments say that they watch the video instead of watching the movie first, that's really dangerous.

I don't get why some people are so annoyed that you're picking on innacuracies when that's supposed to kinda be the point of CinemaSins

I think Satire should follow the same rule of making an offensive joke: You DAMN well better make sure it comes off as a joke.

At least the Cinema Wins is cool

Another argument for it not being satire is that jeremy does or atleast did do first impression reviews of movies in the car journey back from them and the stuff he complained about in those reviews would usually/always come up as sins

People always say CinemaSins is supposed to be a joke but they're almost never funny.

Bobvids’ sustaining stupidity video explains really well how the “sometimes satire sometimes not” has had a negative effect on film review and the film industry itself.

I’ve been watching Cinemasins for so long and I always liked them (and this channel too cause it’s also funny), but more recently I’ve realised how less and less funny their videos are getting and how I’m watching their videos not because they are funny, but because I have a habit of doing so. I think this might be true for many Cinemasins fan: the enjoyment derived from watching their vids had decreased and masked by the routine of watching every single one of their videos. You did a good job bringing this issue up and I really do hope they improve on this. I also like the way you ended the video with the Amazing Spider-Man video because I also remember that video to be one of the best.

I used to think people criticized Cinemasins for not being “deep, insightful film critique” which would be ridiculous, since that wasn’t their intention. But if they fail at what they actually intended to do with bad writing, then that is a very valid criticism of their content.

These people think that comedy or satire is exempt of criticism. That's not how the world works. Anything can be criticized. Even the way criticism is delivered can and has been criticized before.

in italy political satire is really popular and usually comedians that make jokes in this field , are well informed people , because if you get something wrong, the audience will get mad and you would make a fool of yourself. This is an example on how satire needs to be correct , in the other case you are just mocking someone using incorrect facts.

i liked their content a lot better when it was mostly pointing out filming inconsistencies (i.e. objects or people moving/disappearing between shots) because it was something i wouldn't have noticed before and it felt like they had put more effort into watching the movies carefully. now, its all just "smart"-ass quips and cherrypicking scenes to find random things to sin

You may not be saying stop watching him, but I am. I was a fan of CinemaSins for years, but his Predator video showed how nonsensical his comedy or his "facts" are.

“You can be right and funny at the same time” I’m putting this in my back pocket

>It's Satire! So is "Meet The Spartans" Date/Epic/Scary Movie. Should people *not* point out how crap they are.

40k subs!! Doesn't seem so long ago you were celebrating 1000. Congratulations Jay ♥️

Roger Ebert once said if you have to ask what something symbolizes, it doesn't. I believe the same applies to satire.

Glad people are finally talking about this.

Watching Cinema sins is like when someone insults you but when they get called out it's "just a joke"

Love the new name branding! Glad to know you're open to honest critique from other (such as th3birdman) unlike some other channel I certainly won't name.

0 seconds of opening credits, thus ruining the gag. *[Ding, but it’s 2 sins for an arbitrary reason because there’s no set rules]* Video wants to explain why CinemaSins sucks but they’ve stuck with using them as a topic. *[Ding]* Criticism ex machina. *[Ding]* That’s CinemaSins-ist. *[Ding]* Video is right and that pisses me off. Fuck you, video!! *[Ding]* *[Total sins counter: 6]* Punishment: *WATCHING A CINEMASINS RUNNING GAG COMPILATION* “Fuck you, movie!!”

I watched a lot of their videos when I was a toxic contrarian teen, but even then I was a bit confused and annoyed by the fact that especially then, he was dinging movies for having stuff to read when they start, but then also dinging them for having that text narrated, and then dinging them if they just had a narrator at all. Also, it's a known fact that you are incapable of having good opinions on movies if you do a crossover with Doug Walker sorry Cinema sins, ding

If we can’t criticize satire, then that means we can’t say anything bad to Jason Friedberg Aaron Seltzer movies like Epic movie or Distaster movie.

I'm so pleased to see two of my favourite youtubers (Hbomb and Shaun) mentioned outside of the contexts of the leftytube sphere. Recognition...

Cinemasins parodies with random videos are better than Cinemasins itself XD

Any thoughts on nostalgia critic?

Not to mention the CinemaSins being satire argument falls apart when you realise a lot of the sins in the videos are genuine criticisms Jeremy has. Seriously he used to do a series where he would talk about a movie in his car on his way home from the cinema and he makes a surprising amount of complaints that later found there way into CinemaSins videos. If CinemaSins was genuinely satire, every single point would be wrong and so blatantly wrong that it can't be viewed any other way, and even then the joke would get old really fast. You can still make jokes at the movies expense without getting the movie wrong.

8:56 is the way I've always felt (well, since the videos have taken a nose-dive in quality) but never had the words to express. It's perfect

This.... is amazing. Back in the day I used to write a comment on each video that went through sin by sin and pointed out where they were wrong, had missed something or simply were contradicting themselves or deliberately (I hope) being idiots and people hated it. I “didn’t get the joke” and should “chill out”. Now they actively debate these points??? And what’s more there are entire channels dedicated to sowing how off their rocker Cinema Sins is??? I should’ve followed that train of inquiry all the way.

That channel ruined modern film criticism. It sparked an entire wave of people who just watch movies to point out flaws. If that’s the only reason you’re watching movies, then maybe they’re not for you.

Congrats on 40k subs Also I like the new channel name

The werewolf child's name is Winnie, because that's the same name as the werewolf from Scooby Doo, Monster School.

How about poorly written satire? They kinda forgot that they are supposed to be pedantic but mostly right jackasses and started being just pedantic jackasses. And leaving out the mostly right part kinda ruins it.

I'm a CinemaSins fan and I disliked this on reflex, but after watching I changed it to a like. Well-made video with sensible arguments. Good job, I don't change my prejudices easily.

When I first seen your name in my Sub box I was confused.

Your the only one of these "fine lads" you mentioned. You did this very professionaly because anyone should be able to critique anything. I agree with you that Cinema Sins writers are now in a chaos. Because they make pointless sins, or sometimes like you mentioned they even themselfes show that they're wrong. Like saying the false sin and then showing movie scene where it gets neglected. Huge respect and a sub ofcourse for the hard work;)

I honestly don't know why I still enjoy watching CinemaSins, but I do. Actually I think now I really like being able to watch a video by them and the corresponding cinemawins and sinssins videos. It feels like a whole conversation about the movie is happening on youtube, rather than just getting one person's opinion

Parody and mockery are synonyms of satire, but I’m not a comedy expert (is that a thing?) anyway I agree with basically everything you said. Their older videos are really good, but they’ve attracted a ton of trolls and are making the mistake of listening to them

I think Cinemasins started out as a joke, then for a while they started taking their time and really creating satire and jokes, and now, they don't take their time like they used to. But their new video on Eragon made me laugh

Here's what I don't understand about the responses to comments on CinemaSins' videos defending his bad sins. How can someone "miss the point of it entirely" and "not be able to ridicule it because it's satire"? Aren't those mutually exclusive? Which is it?

I literally watch both cinemasins and this channel... When I watched Deapool 2, I had both Jeremy's vid on it and yours in my watch later list, waiting for until I actually got to watch the movie first.

Cinemasins does good content if they really like or hate a movie. f they dont really care they pull stuff out of their a*ses to be done with it. and recently it feels like they dont care about most of the movies they are doing, because they already have done the best and worst movies. An they have to make a video every week

I do like cinemasins and I do recognise their inaccuracies, but largely don't care. I can see them myself and they don't really detract from the overall experience

In his video about Attack of the Clones he gave a sin when Padme fell and grunted when she fell over 10 feet

Keep up the good work, I am genuinely interested in seeing your review of mauler's unbridled rage take two, at this point I am convinced you could make a great video on it.

"Thanks for making my dreams come true." Jay is so cute. 😙

Can you do a critique of iilluminaughtii content? I used the watch their content, but now I am thinking it might be a lot of bs.

8:56 That art is magnificent.

Your videos looks well writtem, and thought out. So i enjoy watching you. Especially after watching cinema sins. Your both channels serves different purposes, while cinema sins isnt for comedy, or criticism, it is still very entertaining. I like watching it bcs this makes me think about some films, and this is their purpose (for me at least), it is sometimes funny which is good, but simetimes its really frustrating, especially when they show ignorance (i hate ignorance), fortunately, there is You, and your more accurate point of view, which can help me get over my frustrations, just for showing that not only i am seing that ignorance. Yet, i wanted to say, that to be entertaining video doesnt need to be funny or accurate ;)

Totally agree. I stopped watching Cinemasins years ago because it became such garbage, frustrating, inaccurate and lazy writing.

I used to love watching cinema sins. Heck, it would be one of the channels I'd religiously watch rather than let uploads build until I just binged the new vids all in a row. Which means I pretty much saw the decline of the channel's quality in action and it was the proverbial train wreck in motion. I'm not even sure it's Jeremy's ego that's the problem, I think it's actually he started to throw rando sins into the videos for shits and giggles and set himself on the "slippery slope" to where he got to the point he is now. I've kept an eye on his work and it feels partial as though he understands the criticism that comes his way but a) a part of him seems to just be pumping out the sins as much as possible like it's a quick job for money rather than any interest and passion the way it might have been at the start and b) he's fallen into the trap of not being able to split his "arsehole sin-giver" mask from his public persona.

Yea the screen junkies cinemasins episode was definitely the best one. I also enjoyed the madness that was "everything wrong with iron man 3 according to our fans" where screen junkies even had a cameo.