Don't Waste Your Money On Batteries - The Shocking Truth I Discovered When Testing RV Batteries

День тому

Don't buy batteries until you watch this! Which RV or boat battery is best? We ran laboratory-controlled tests to determine the best RV battery type by power and cost. This video takes a look at lead acid vs lithium batteries, how much power and energy these batteries make, and what is the cheapest battery by energy provided.
After watching this video you can decide which battery type is right for you because you will be armed with real-world battery data!
The Real Reason We Installed Battle Born Lithium Batteries (Again) [2023 Review]:
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If you are interested in Battleborn Batteries check them out here : battlebornbatteries.com/produ...
The following is included in this video:
0:00 Introduction
3:24 Our Testing Setup
4:03 The Batteries we Tested
7:19 Takeaway #1 Lead Acid Did not make their Ratings
8:47 Takeaway #2 - Amp-hours are not equivalent between lead-acid and Lithium
9:53 Takeaway #3 Expensive Lead Acid Batteries are just that
12:18 Takeaway #4 Lithium Batteries are way cheaper over their lifespan
12:51 Takeaway #5 Lead Acid batteries need special charging and discharging parameters for cold-weather function
13:50 Takeaway #6 Heated Lithium-Ion Batteries should be insulated to save energy
14:38 Room Temperature Data Analysis and
16:58 Cost analysis of Data
20:25 Energy comparison analysis
22:25 Cold weather data analysis
26:18 Real-world cold-weather test with coffee maker and Microwave
30:08 9V Drop low voltage test data and analysis
33:00 Conclusion and my thoughts
Disclaimer: Battle Born Batteries paid for the tests we performed however this did not impact our judgment or tests and all the data provided to you is exactly as was tested. We are also affiliates of Battle Born Batteries and earn a small commission at no cost to a customer if a purchase is made through our link.
If you are interested in Battleborn Batteries check them out here : battlebornbatteries.com/produ...
Thank you for watching our videos!
We are Tom & Caitlin Morton and we are the Mortons on the Move. We are co-hosts of 'The RVers' TV Show on the Discovery Channel, PBS, and Fun Roads TV. We are the Creators of the Go North series available on Amazon Prime and UKposts. We've lived full-time in an RV since 2015.
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КОМЕНТАРІ: 3 600

@snookrookie 2 роки тому

Just an informercial for battle born. Real world for me is my 3 batteries costing $240 has powered my RV more than 260 days off grid. My set up is 200 watts of solar and 200 amps of usable battery and total cost was $585. No longer think about batteries just use them. Life is good.

@bryanmontello5702 4 дні тому

Awesome, I'm planning to do this for my gf. She lives in the Philippines so the grid is 220 there

@therasheck 3 роки тому

I don't think this video will shock me, for I am well grounded.

@clayed 3 роки тому

I don't think this video will shock me, for I am well insulated.

@LEIGHTONSTEW 3 роки тому

But you did gt a charge out of it , yes?

@dallassukerkin6878 3 роки тому

@@LEIGHTONSTEW Beat me to it! Now I am flat ... ...

@1boobtube 3 роки тому

@@clayed The best way to live up to your potential.

@rickquick8977 3 роки тому

Good to know dad jokes aren't dead yet.

@OldManandtheSuperC Рік тому

The whole point for AGM versus flooded lead was the electrolyte wouldn’t spill and required less maintenance. It was never really designed to perform better but was designed for mobile use in boats, cars, motorcycles. This analysis would have been more useful if you had tested deep cycle golf cart batteries instead of cheapo versions. BTW I purchased Trojans for less per AH than the cheapo Sam’s club deep cycle batteries.

@DrJoonPark 6 місяців тому

This!

@user-my8zo8uh3n 5 місяців тому

AND ALOT MORE FIRE PROOF LOL....

@jeffreyumeh8580 4 місяці тому

@@user-my8zo8uh3n Dude these are LFP Lithium Ion cells, people have drilled holes in them and nothing has happened, like don't tempt fate or anything because these is a lot of potential energy in those cells, but they are pretty darn safe as long as you don't have a lot of other cells to feed into them without a fuse to stop massive amounts of current going into 1 cell, like in the case of a car battery even if you make it out of LFP cells like you have to have a lot of cells in series to get the 100s of volts they want, but for 12 to 48V systems where you can put breakers or fuses between each parrellel string of batteries it's stupid safe. You are thinking about NMC cells, which nobody sells those anymore for residential energy storage, yeh they get used in phones and EVs because the weight and size matters a lot of those use cases, but for a house battery the extra safety and the increase in the number of cycles from 1000 to 5000 cycles of LFP is more than worth the extra volume and weight.

@spanishtreasure9551 3 місяці тому

and theres more , agm or lead acid will out last a lithium batteyr due to lithuim battery having a bms charging board inside that fails over time,(right when you least expect it) , this bms electronics( lead acid and agm Dont have ANY charging electronics) cant handle in and out current (NO matter what the company rep , china or the warranty says) . also as many marine guys do on here and show , you can mix 2 or 3 agm or lead acid batteries to every 1 lithium and tie them together resulting in Great power that compliments each other .

@dreddredd7137 2 місяці тому

@@user-my8zo8uh3n You got that right . When i was looking on this subject for power storage my first impression was that lithium has a lot of advantages against other battery's exept fires , and i saw many of them with this kind of battery's . Its called Termal Runaway , its heating up ( by a bad BMS and / or because of the chemical reaction ) and fires break out and even explosions occure . Now that is reason enough to not buying these and take the best ( affordable ) one in line ( AGM ) i also give you a reason what else can occure and make these systems to throw away . Ever heard of the Carrington Event from 1859 and the fires and shocks that event deliverd , that is called Geo Induced Current . Spaceweather and KP-Index storms can cause to electrical components ( BMS ) to fail ( and maybe even start chemical processes ) and because the earths magnetic field is declining fast the impact of smal storms can be enormous . This means much more of these lithium fires the can burn for days or even weaks , very bad if that is the place where you live and have your stuff and foods .

@thithamduong2223 8 місяців тому

After reading many reviews and watching a lot of videos, I chose this option for my first backup power station. ukposts.infoUgkxHypYDKHAN93Lp2RQpfvU_ksc70wJ00pt I was between this and a larger option that could power a wider range of items, but the price/size/capacity blend seemed right for this unit. Hasn't gotten a ton of use yet, but the build quality is solid and it charges fine via the Rockpals solar panel I purchased to pair with it. One thing to note is that the screen is optimized for a top down viewing angle, which makes sense, but this means it washes out at other angles - especially low angles. Not a huge deal, but perhaps a better option for the display could be used to provide wider viewing angles.

@smow999 2 роки тому

Whom ever created the science for this video, hats off to you. A perfect set of data points to push lithium, while ignoring industry standards on how AGM/Lead Acid batteries are tested and rated for their specifications. A lead acid battery's capacity is not determined by a 'loaded' battery and voltage, but instead by a specific time at rest, after discharge. Those AGM batteries were not at 50% DoD, at any of the specified load tests. Honestly, its great marketing! Nice job.

@AiChatbot443 2 роки тому

Crazy we are here at the same time thinking the same thing.

@sectokia1909 2 роки тому

Great video but the general claim at the end that Lead acid "are not reliable to be used in a power application" is utter garbage. They are now no longer the most cost effective way, but they have been used in power applications for an extremely long time. We have been using them to power entire hotels on fraser island for over 3 decades, back when Lithium ion batteries were still at >$10,000 per kilowatthour.

@stewie84 2 роки тому

I love how thorough you are. You guys are the best. I want to totally change the way I do RV'ing because of you.

@bradatherton9369 2 роки тому

Great video! I'm afraid some of the manufacturer specs may have been taken out of context. They are OCV (open circuit voltage). BCI (Battery Council International) regulates how lead acid batteries are spec'd, 100% DoD is 1.75v per cell or 10.5v for a 12v battery. The voltage drop in the 80A case will cause the lead acid capacities to be misrepresented dramatically. The Peukert Constant for a lead acid is around 1.3, whereas Li Ion does very well with a constant of less that 1.1, so Li Ion will still win this battle but by a lesser margin. Including cost, or dollar-per-watt-hour, you might be impressed at how well lead acid does. Also, were the lead acid batteries equalized regulary? For the the record, I'm a power electronics engineer and have worked for a Li Ion manufacturer and ran a lead acid desulfation research company.

@DW11111 2 роки тому

I've noticed he likes every comment that cheerleads his video but glosses over constructive comments like yours. Kind of adds to my notion this was just a 36 minute ad for Battle Born disguised as an experiment.

@ahuramazda323 2 роки тому

Have you noticed he did not reply to you? Its because of the hidden agenda here.

@DW11111 2 роки тому

@@ahuramazda323 I tend to agree with you. In Canada you can get one of these 12v 100AH batteries or eight GC2 6v for the same spend. So for a true apples to apples in terms of dollar cost he should have had 4 banks in parallel which would have lowered both the current draw out of each bank and lessened the DoD for a given amount of power. I think one would have gotten more capacity and a more aggressive ROI for that type of lead acid setup if he made the spend for the batteries equal. If you have a packaging, space, or weight constraint like the battery box in an RV, okay, I see the point of the methodology, but to make a blanket statement that Battle Born..erm... lithium ion is the most cost effective solution for *every* situation including home backup power I don't believe is true. Like I said in another comment, if this was TRULY about just about lithium ion vs lead acid, he should have gotten another brand lithium and withheld names of those like he did for the lead acid, but then Battle Born probably wouldn't have paid for the 36 minute ad...erm... "experiment".. if that had happened. (edited to fix typos)

@solarwind907 2 роки тому

I thought of your point regarding open circuit voltage versus voltage under a load. To someone who knows batteries like yourself, it’s obvious that if you have a battery under a 50 amp load and compare to 1 under a 5 amp load, The higher the load, the lower the voltage even at the exact same state of charge and the same temp. You are correct that the voltage/SOC numbers given by the lead acid batt manus assume room temperature and no load conditions. FYI, I’m not an engineer but I have worked on power systems with flooded and AGM lead acid batteries for decades and my field experience agrees with yours. It was great for me to read your comment :-). Thank you.

@user-ze7tl2dw4i 2 роки тому

This is what we need the dislike button for.

@jimleverso9155 3 роки тому

First of all, GREAT video and very extensive testing. I've been on the fence about changing out my current OEM flooded battery for Battle Born for a couple of years now. The one point that wasn't pointed out in the video about cost is that its not just the cost of swapping out the flooded battery for a lithium battery, but the significant additional required cost to replace the OEM inverter/charger with one that supports lithium, and for many people, the labor cost of engineering the lithium battery/charger/inverter solution to replace the OEM system, not to mention, for many of us, the cost to upgrade the alternator in our trucks to handle charging of the lithium cells while we're on the road. So, while there is no denying that using lithium cells are much better performance, for many it comes down to a cost vs benefit especially when factoring in the additional mandatory costs necessary to move to lithium. Thanks again for your very extensive report. You guys continue to put out very informative videos. Hope to see you both on the road. Keep it up!

@TravelWithTheHs 3 роки тому

Right on point. This is why I came to the comments to make this exact point. This is the only thing keeping me from doing the switch.

@tarefoot 3 роки тому

I would really like to see his reply to this. This has been a question in my mind as if my existing converter would charge a lithium battery. I'd like to know just what you would have to do. Thanks for your comment.

@Rumline7 3 роки тому

@@tarefoot Look up the make and model (maybe serial number too since sometimes mfg's change things mid cycle) and call the manufacturer. Ask them if that charger supports a LiFePO4 charge profile. If yours was made in the past 3-4 years it could well be compatible already. Prior to that probably not unless you have a high-end model. Even if it's not compatible currently I've heard that some models can be upgraded to support lithium fairly easily and at low/no cost either through new firmware or a circuit board replacement.

@tarefoot 3 роки тому

@@Rumline7 Thanks Michael......

@catmonkey4351 3 роки тому

Damn, even my van alternator could possibly need to be changed? Would my Ford Dealer know this info? I'm considering a LiPo system...

@johnnylightning1491 3 роки тому

Good stuff Tom. The results don't surprise me, but it's nice to see it confirmed. Keep the good stuff coming.

@tommays56 2 роки тому

Two group 27 Costco battery’s on my Sailboat maintained by a Bluesea ACR powered by a Genasun with 40 watts were perfectly happy running the boat at 7 years without issue even in Winter

@peacewarrior9500 2 роки тому

Nice work, but this felt like a SME corporate/commercial advertisement for Battle Born! I’d have loved to see the cost per power ($/Whr) of building your own LFP bank with EVE cells and BMS compared to commercially available ones like Battle Born. I’ve seen cost come down to as low as 0.1$/Whr. Battle Born is overpriced and overhyped, IMHO, at 0.67$/Whr. For those of us DIY types with some engineering background, it’s an insult to underhandedly suggest or highlight a brand-name on such limited data set. No one needs convincing that LFP is superior to AGM in almost every metric, but bringing down the cost-per-power by sourcing quality cells and components is where the rubber meets the road! Please do an episode on the best available power system components, ie, LFP cells, BMS, inverters, PVCs, charge controllers and monitors, etc. It would be of immensely more value to DIY enthusiasts than mindless brand-name consumers!

@DesertAdventuresinArizona 3 роки тому

Very comprehensive test and confirms my real world experience over the last 2 years I’ve owned my Battle Borne batteries. Thank you!

@warrenmaloney2497 3 роки тому

I was at 50% way through this video at room temp and I'm nun the wiser ! My brain shut down from low volts.

@fredread9216 2 роки тому

Ha ha ha hah

@genesnyder2985 2 роки тому

Or watts or amps??

@ralphandrews7721 2 роки тому

Way too wonky to be useful to the average consumer

@ryanskare6670 Рік тому

Great information. A lot of us are more concerned with the actual amp hour performance because we run equipment that draws a specific amount of amps. Knowing that capacity helps us decide the appropriate battery.

@matthewwiemken7293 Рік тому

LFP gives a lot when pulled hard. lead acid drops a lot when pulled hard.

@menglei6301 Рік тому

@@matthewwiemken7293 Yes, I think so too, after all this is a video from two years ago, now the LFP batteries are twice as powerful as lead acid batteries at the same weight and last longer, I bought ADCBATT 12v 100ah lifepo4 batteries on Amazon for my RV and towing machine, much better than the old lead acid, maybe this is technology changing life.

@casegarrison4488 2 роки тому

I've owned RVs (and lived on a sailboat!) off and on for almost two decades, and I've always ended up shrugging my shoulders and hoping for the best when it came to house power. Now that we have a newer fifth wheel, I'm trying to decide what direction to take house power and charging. The typical forums are filled with opinions and tribal knowledge, but little data. Your testing methodology and explanations were tremendously helpful, and provided useful real-world comparisons. I'm mechanically inclined, but certainly no electrical engineer, and I still came away with a much more thorough understanding of the state of the art (or science) in power storage today!

@MortonsontheMove 2 роки тому

Thank you! Glad you found the video helpful. :)

@JHA6100 3 роки тому

Tom, amazing as always. Love the detail and this confirms that our purchase of the 4 Battle Born batteries. The title of this video gave me pause as we just installed these last week so I had to watch this. MOTM is the best. 🤗

@fishing4happiness610 3 роки тому

Lol... Same, I was like you guys are the ones that convinced me to buy BB batteries 2 years ago. Good to know it was $4k well spent.

@rvnut1133 3 роки тому

I kind of knew what the expected outcome was going to be but I must admit it was very interesting to see the data in detail. Great Job! Thank you.

@agw5425 9 місяців тому

In mechanic school we were taught that a lead acid battery is empty at 10.5V, this is the lowest voltage you should use them at, at 10-20 degree C. If you have a high current short duration draw you may be better of running it on a start battery rather than a "house" battery as they are made for high intensity short draw (and fast recharge after use) like a starter motor.

@gsansoucie Рік тому

Outstanding. Excellent presentation of the data here. I was already sold on BB. We are going fulltime RV in our Airstream next year and I’m doing the research for the buildout this winter. Our flooded cell 12v batteries have served us well the last four seasons and worked well for weekend warriors. For FullTime use though, we need Lithium.

@vicabobtravels 3 роки тому

Watched your video and during the whole time watching I was thinking full time RV person as opposed to the part time RV person. I am a part time RV person and the cost of lithium would be way too much. If I was planning on full time boondocking and RVing, I would have no problem investing in lithium. A real world scenario would include use over time.

@krissfemmpaws1029 3 роки тому

I enjoyed this report and found it interesting, with that said I can't justify the expense of switching from my 6 volt golf cart batteries I have now.

@kcajmortsnnew1488 3 роки тому

EXACTLY...i got excited a couple yrs. ago , but thinking further , just couldn't justify $2K to run my fridge.....bought 2 6 v. golf cart batts.; but wish i could afford these...and there is the exploding batt facet

@IDVDalot 3 роки тому

Great thinking Bob!

@mckenziekeith7434 3 роки тому

Yeah. The 6V golf batteries will last a part timer 3 or 5 years (if you take care of them). The Battleborn batteries will cost 6 or 7 times more and last for 10 or more years. The cheaper batteries will still be cheaper over any reasonable time span.

@johnpianezze6519 3 роки тому

I disagree. This analysis shows that Lithium is more cost-effective over the lifespan of the battery, and this has nothing to do with how often it gets used. Although $900 for the Battle Born is a lot to pay up front, it will last 10 to 30 years, vs. 2-3 years for a pair of 6V golf cart batteries (assuming you wouldn't buy AGM because they are very expensive for what you get). Hence the lithium dilemma: are you willing to pull the trigger on the high upfront cost to get a lifetime of benefits?

@MrBrymstond 3 роки тому

If you have a permanent camp, bury the lead acid batteries 2 feet under the frostline and use conduit for the wires.

@DragonsREpic 2 роки тому

Thats stupid. Thats like burying a car to prevent it get rusted but you cant add gas anymore

@curtisscott9251 Рік тому

This is a super valuable video! Thanks for your time to make this much more visible!

@davidelliott5843 2 роки тому

AGM is great for punchy engine start current. The glass mats hold the active compounds into the battery plates. For slower discharge rates there is not much point in AGM. The glass matting gets in the way of charging and traps bubbles which block even more access to the plates.

@markb9347 3 роки тому

Thanks for sharing all the results of your experimentation. MOTM is awesome!

@setatrainingdirector3033 3 роки тому

Nice work. 25 years ago during my apprenticeship, I worked at Sears Auto Center. The cheaper car battery was better because there was more room between the lead cells. The more expensive batteries got hotter, the lead expanded and shorted out; this killing the battery.

@Deontjie 3 роки тому

I think that was a build in design, to sell more batteries.

@bingosunnoon9341 2 роки тому

The heavier batteries do indeed short out with greater frequency, they have less acid too.

@wtcamer 2 роки тому

@@Deontjie No that is science.

@hyperlogos 2 роки тому

@@wtcamer The plural of anecdote is not data, and this is only even one anecdote

@ppineault 2 роки тому

Great video and thanks for making the time and effort. Though far more expensive, always suspected that lithium ion batteries were more cost efficient in the long run...thanks so much (though being a total layman on the subject (don't know the difference between ie, an amp and a watt anyhow) much of the technical jargon might as well have been spoken in Aramaic)

@lawrencebush2603 2 роки тому

I served on diesel-electric submarines for 7 years. We had two main batteries on the last submarine I served on. Each battery consisted of 126 lead-acid cells that weighed about 1200 pounds when filled with electrolyte (distilled water and acid). Each cell was rated at 2.0 volts for 250 vdc per battery and connected through switch for normal operation of 250 volts but could beconnected in series for short bursts of high speed maneuvering (1/2 hour). We charged the batteries when new to over 13.0 volts per cell, verified by continuous electrolyte readings during charging. Typically the batteries were discharged into the high 10.0 volt per cell reading before charging. After several years and a number of monitored cylcles and deep equalizing charges the batteries arrive at a condition where the would no longer reach a high enough charge and sometimes a cell would reverse charge and would need to be disconnected and bypassed with a corresponding cell in the other battery. So lithium batteries might be better than a lead-acid battery, but you are not taking all factors into consideration. I have also worked with large lead-acid batteries used in large buildings to bridge power outages till emergency power gensets coul come on line. Similar results.

@ashforkdan 2 роки тому

That would make a great solar battery.

@ElectricityTaster 2 роки тому

The military is lowest bidder.

@Relic142 2 роки тому

I'm unsure of the conclusion you are making with this story. Are you saying if those lead acid batteries on the sub were replaced with lithium they would not perform as well in certain applications or overall? Can you tell me one factor he needs to take into consideration in the video where lead-acid in general is better other than the one mention in the video. He did list a car starter battery as an ideal situation for lead-acid.

@privateparty4900 Рік тому

2 volt cells charged to 13 volts? So you went from 250vdc nominal to 1600vdc? It seems like you would just get boiling/electrolysis if you tried to charge a lead acid cell to 10 or 13v...but I guess I haven't exactly tried.

@Factory400 Рік тому

13v per cell? Whaaaaaaat?

@colinsmith6340 3 роки тому

This is a very very good testing system. One point to note though is that you are not ever supposed to measure lead acid battery voltage levels while under load/charge to get any significantly decent reading. I would love to do that "discharge to death" test again for the AGMs, but give them a break. Say every 25 minutes, let them rest for 5 mins to rebound, measure voltage, then repeat. Otherwise the comment saying that an AGM 50 percent level is 12.0 volts is quite literally useless, as with the 8 amp load connected and with battery and cable internal resistance along with peukorts law throwing its annoyances in the voltage under load is just a bare indicate that the battery is still alive, not "oh we have passed the 50.00 percent mark." Other then that though there is some very important info here, especially with the difference between cheap and expensive AGMs. The floodeds also had a suprising uptick, but they are annoying to store and use in a sealed or semi-sealed environment. Very good data though, but with the voltage measurements under load being all suspect some retesting will have to be done. I bet that if you hit the "half capacity ah consumption" point at around 12.0 volts, and allowed the battery to rest, it would bounce back to around 12.2 volts as per the manufacturers spec sheet. Would LOVE to see scientific testing of that.

@JeremyAkersInAustin 3 роки тому

This wasn't supposed to be "scientific". This test mimicked real world use of these batteries. People aren't buying these to bench test them. No-one in a boat or RV is going to be able to configure their inverter to turn off all loads to test the voltage, and then turn them back on (or not) depending on if the voltage rebounds. What they did in this video is a more "real world" test because this is how inverters are typically programmed in a boat or RV. They don't have the luxury of turning off all loads for an hour, waiting for the voltage to rebound and then turning the RV appliances back on again, etc. Notice that the Lithium batteries were tested in exactly the same way and didn't need this sort of pampering with turning the loads off to check the voltages. And that's the point: In a RV/boat application the Lithium's give you much more *usable* energy for the money.

@jamesop22 3 роки тому

Sounds like some vw testing lol

@mitchpender8113 2 роки тому

@@JeremyAkersInAustin unfortunately the test was designed to show lithium batteries where they are at their optimum , constant discharge …lead acid batteries bounce back after discharging , in fact a constant discharge is very uncommon in a RV / boat typically batteries cycle between discharge/ charge / idle .. That is a real world test , this is a sponsored video with the test optimised for lithium ion , that being said for inverter use or high discharge requirements lithium is superior, lead acid batteries preform far better that this test showed.. btw 12.2v is 60% .. 12.05 is 50% Again a marketing ploy to make lithium look more cost effective than they are

@scotforshaw 2 роки тому

Kind of agree, but also have empathy for the comments that say it was supposed to reflect real world conditions. I frequently am amazed how well my leisure battery bounces back after a short high load drain.

@nortonnewmann3711 2 роки тому

I investigated "house battery power" for our Class C motorhome within a month of purchase. It had a single 12 volt marine battery from the dealer - and most people who've bought an RV KNOW how those batteries are treated! I knew I wanted solar, so 200 watts went on the roof. Next, I replaced the stock 20Amp PWM charge controller with a more robust 40 Amp MPPT controller. Then came the storage device. All I needed was a reliable source of 12 volt power to operate the motorhome slide, run the furnace fan, led lights and minimal power for the propane fridge (when not on shore power). If we need the AC, a hair dryer or coffee maker (high amp draw devices), we either run our on-board 4k generator or plug into shore power. So... 100 useable amp hours kept reliably charged would be perfect. My choice came down to two options: LiFePO4 12 volt (no maintenance) or flooded GC2 6 volt golf cart batteries (minimal maintenance). Two 6 volt batteries? $180, lifespan 4 years = $45 per year. One lithium? $900, lifespan 10 years = $90 per year. For me, the real world math tells the story. The cost/benefit ratio just isn't there yet for lithium.

@davidgirolametto393 2 роки тому

Believe that the cost of the 6v batteries will be twice what you quoted, thus equalling the annual cost of the lithium batteries. Factor in that the lithium batteries have considerably more usable power and your way ahead with the lithium.

@jeoinaforest 2 роки тому

@@davidgirolametto393 Agreed. Plus, the dreaded "oh no...we are fully discharged" is real and is not a big deal with lithium...but I've found that even after a SINGLE "fully discharged" event my FLA deep cycles no longer work as well as they did. I will absolutely be replacing with Lithium next time.

@stevelamperta865 2 роки тому

I've run lead acid and now lithium and there's absolutely no comparison ! I will never run anything but lithium from now on . Its half the cost when you figure everything correctly . And no maintenence !

@nortonnewmann3711 2 роки тому

@@stevelamperta865 Some buy a Prevost; some buy a Thor coach... to each their own. In the end it's about usable amp hours. What you decide to pay for those amp hours is up to you.

@nortonnewmann3711 2 роки тому

@@davidgirolametto393 $97 each at Sam's Club. 2x = less than $200. 215 amp hours ÷ 2 (1/2 usable) = 107 available amp hours. Now... how much does 107 amp hours cost going the lithium route?

@kylebultman3726 2 роки тому

Nice work - thanks for the info! I'm curious, did you break in the lead acid batteries before beginning testing? As I'm sure you're aware, a number of common lead acid brands don't start generating their full power until a number of discharge/charge cycles. I have a bank of 6 crown 6v batteries, and I've definitely seen the limitations of voltage sag under heavy load (130 amps microwave... can only run a couple minutes before inverter cutout). ...liking the looks of the battleborn heated batts!

@eliinthewolverinestate6729 2 роки тому

Get a super capacitor bank with batteries and you can run what ever. Having the super capacitor cycle means batteries last longer and don't draw down as much.

@gratefuldude7511 Рік тому

Excellent information for a newbie considering the full time camper lifestyle

@johnw.7584 3 роки тому

Thk you for all your hard work on this Great video. Now how to really get a great battery setup. Thk you

@phylisdeweese5490 3 роки тому

Wow! Thanks for taking the time to do all the research!

@Mark-jp1yi Місяць тому

THANKS BUDDY THAT WAS HELPFULL

@yachtwork Рік тому

And there I was about to buy a set of AGM. Thanks for the detail.

@sspence65 3 роки тому

I see a possible flaw in your testing method. It appears that you were testing the end voltage under load. The 50% 12.2v is at rest, not under load. If you drew the batteries down to 12.2 under load, and then cut off, the voltage pops back up, and you did not hit your 50% level. Retest with a hydrometer (battery voltage is not an accurate method of determining the state of charge).

@andymead3619 3 роки тому

Yes, and / or set compensation parameters for this in the inverter configuration.

@tomhargreaves8820 3 роки тому

This was a lot of work. However, I didn't hear anything about how you measured the "end" voltages. I infer from what I heard that you tested to a voltage under load because you kept referring to a "cutoff voltage". As Steve pointed out, and a I have learned by studying and living with rv batteries for 16 years, to get even an approximation of the state of charge (SoC) of a lead-acid battery with voltage, you have to let the battery recover after a period of discharge. In fact, to see the voltage of a fully charged battery, you have to let it sit unloaded for a period of time or apply a moderate load for a short period to knock the voltage down to its rest level. Every study I've read on lead-acid batteries emphasizes that voltage level is not an accurate method to determine SoC, only testing the specific gravity of the electrolyte is accurate. That's difficult with sealed la batteries.

@ThomasSuckow 3 роки тому

I also question whether the lead acids were deep cycle batteries which would be what would be in an RV and should have a greater than 50% DOD.

@sspence65 3 роки тому

@@ThomasSuckow 50% is the recommended DOD for lead acid deep cycle. Some recommend deeper DOD to get more usable ah, but cycle life decreases. 20% is the recommended DOD for starting batteries.

@PlanktoniusRex 3 роки тому

Yep that is 100% right. My AGM's sag to 24.1 under load by morning but VOC rises to 24.4 when measured disconnected and direct.

@razzix2 2 роки тому

Everyone always goes with the worst lead acid batts for these tests. I guess it makes sense for RV applications to keep weights realistic. I would love to see in depth tests done against trojan's specifically designed SIND 06 610 batts that have a pretty well proven track record/service life when maintained. I feel like any flooded cell rated for PSOC (like the SIND 06 610 batts) still gives lithium a run for its money in every way outside of weight and with proven service life well outside of these notions of '500 cycles' or '5yrs' that keep going around.

@rossbagley9015 7 місяців тому

I put our four LiFePO4 batteries inside the RV so that they're heated with the rest of the interior. The whole power system and a 12V fridge/freezer is under/behind the bench seat where the jackknife sofa used to be. Could put some silicone 12V heaters under the batteries as an extra layer of protection, but the BMS shuts everything down if the battery temps get low, so I don't yet see the point. This past June, we got an inch of hail in Colorado and I woke up with the exterior temp at 28 and the interior temp in the low 50's. Pretty wild weather but the batteries never got close to freezing temps.

@completelyboringstuff204 2 роки тому

Thanks for these comprehensive Infos! I did experience similar outcome even with starter batteries on my motorcycle, where weight is a critical factor on top of all. A84 Wh LI battery provides 10 times more starting procedures than the stock AGM 168 Wh one, weighs about 1/4th or less and serves now for the 5th year, while AGM never even made a second season.

@eliinthewolverinestate6729 2 роки тому

I agree on agm motorcycle battery. Like my lithium tool batteries it only makes it a year. I have kick starter and super capacitor now for my enduro. It should last 20 years.

@Tron-Jockey 2 роки тому

Be careful. Most of these Li-ion batteries for automotive applications are LiFePo4 chemistry which cannot be charged at temperatures below freezing without severely damaging them. I've seen where some of them will incorporate heating elements within the case but not all manufacturers do this. They should also have an internal BMS that protects against charging if too hot or too cold. Cheaper batteries may not have this protection. For an automotive application you may want to consider the relatively new Lithium Titanate (LTO) chemistry. They are a bit pricey and not as energy dense but they're virtually indestructible. They can be fully cycled thousands more times than LiFePo4 and have a much broader temperature range (-40 to 165F). They can also endure extremely high discharge rates without being damaged. They can take incredible abuse without damage. They're starting to show up on eBay, sold by companies like XS-Power. Google it...... Good Luck

@liam3284 11 місяців тому

I am a big fan of the LTO chemistry, but it seems to be hard to source them.

@able880 7 місяців тому

@@Tron-Jockeythats a good point you make about temperature - when tempeture is not a problem lithium is a good choice - also in boats, campers and aircraft weight.matters so often lithium is a better choice

@reginaldpotts2037 3 роки тому

quote 'Disclaimer: Battle Born Batteries paid for the tests we performed' Nuff said

@bradenmackey8116 3 роки тому

so a 40 minute video of all the testing is worth nothing just because a company paid for them to do it?

@richardwagner8498 3 роки тому

Dunning Kruger effect ?

@DaveMartin-co8et 3 роки тому

@@bradenmackey8116 Not at all. This 40 minute video is worth a lot to the people at BattleBorn. As for an actual user, one should be aware that there is a significant underlying bias here. For example the statement at 33:40 "lead-acid batteries are just not reliable to be used in a power application." This ignores the historical fact that lead-acid batteries have been used quite successfully in a variety of power applications for more than 100 years. I would not claim that lithium batteries are crap but it is foolhardy and ignorant to suggest that lead-acid batteries don't have any place in power applications. I use flooded lead-acid (not AGM's) in an RV that I use 20 or 30 nights per year. I recharge with a generator and with solar panels and a cheap PWM charge controller that has user selectable charge voltages and is temperature compensated. My setup has served me well for the past three years. While lithium batteries would probably deliver more watt-hours than I currently get, the BattleBorn batteries cost about 7 times what I paid. They would not be a good value for the way I use batteries in my RV.

@ezew4144 3 роки тому

I agree I have been heavily in the solar and battery spaces and it baffles me that they are pushing lithium so heavy. None of these folks can attest to a lithium set of batteries lasting 10 years, or 2000 to 5000 cycles. While NiFe batteries are tried and true to thousands of cycles and can have electrolytes replaced. We're talking a lifetime of use. By all means NiFe are not reasonable for RVs but let's be real who is using a RV in the way they are saying how many days out of the year is a person using a RV . Its crazy that he mentions battleborn by name but not the others, and also didn't use another brand of lithium as well as the battleborn. I personally think OPZV batteries are second to NiFe whith 2000 to 3000 cycles for a stationary say solar setup. I get RVs have limited access and space but again. It goes back to buying a cheaper battery every couple of years to dropping 4 k for some lithium batteries that you use 3 times a year maybe. I think the hype is so that they can get alot of their stock out before solid state batteries hit the market. Those will truly bring the rugged and longevity seen in NiFe along with less weight and more power density. Let's be real if your discharging a lithium battery the same as we do our phones we all know that now after 1.5 years a phones battery is toast and thats maybe hitting 1000 cycles. Also the electronics needed to fully utilize lithium is issue prone not just in a charge controller (very specific) but the batteries themselves have electronics bms etc. Realistically I look at lithium as great for small electronics, evs, and certain other applications but they are not the best for every situation requiring battery storage.

@jimthomas777 3 роки тому

Not only did Battle Born Batteries pay for these test , These guys get paid a commission for every battery sold , So the better the report , the more sales of batteries and more commissions are paid , So if I say they suck I don't get paid and if I say that they are great I get paid , Great or Suck ? That is a really difficult question to answer when you are broke and need money for food

@TaylorvilleOptimist 3 роки тому

Tom, all great information... for the seven battery engineers watching. For the rest of us, all we need to know is; what do we need, battery wise, to run our furnace overnight, in 20 degree temperatures. I recently had to run my generator overnight to keep the batteries charged up, as the furnace was too much drain for an overnight period. There are, of course, other small amp draws (refrigerator controller, thermostat, built in radio, etc.) that add to that drain, but for the most part, what do we need to be able to run the furnace overnight? Thanx for all your work and willingness to share what you learned

@MortonsontheMove 3 роки тому

Good question, one charged 100AH lithium will do it. Considering the furnace draws 300W that would be 4 hours continuous run, assuming a 20-30 percent duty cycle your looking at 12-14 hours usable runtime. If its a 50% duty it will just get you through. always depends on your loads. I will write a blog post on this topic!

@andrewzenn1719 3 роки тому

Tom, ironically people can understand miles per gallon, and yet amp hours or watt hours confound them. See it all the time. Would be nice to.see you draw analogies. Describe in painfully basic terms the difference between and amp and a watt. And then throw in what a watt hour is. Most rvers do not understand the difference between an amp and a volt and a watt. Electrozoom did.some nice things but he wouldn't appeal to rvers. You glanced over it and then you hand waved like a good EE. I explain this all the time but you are.getting paid. Good luck.

@conniechapin9278 3 роки тому

Andrew Zenn, the problem is that there are 3 ways to measure electricity. Amps, watts and volts. And then there is AC and DC. That gets converted back and forth in an RV. MPG is easy to understand for us in USA, but if we where talking to someone in another country that did LPK (liters per kilometers) we'd be a bit confused.

@stout_tossme7541 3 роки тому

Ted, exactly. Great comment. I watched this video and learned a thing or two. To the MPG comment. I am not an RVer. I am in the backcountry camping and exploring. Can't take an RV where I go. I worked as a mechanic for several years and am very mechanically inclined. When it comes to electricity, I have youtube and Tom to explain it to me. 🤷🏼‍♂️ I am not at all interested in electrical engineering. Lol

@bitworkx6028 3 роки тому

@@MortonsontheMove Adding to the furnace post: I would imagine , the lithium will recover faster than the AGM. So as the nights go on using the furnace, at some point, a generator will be needed to get the AGM back near 100% where as the Lithium batteries might last much longer before they need a generator or not at all (assuming no cloudy days).

@Fusako8 Рік тому

This video pretty much mirrors my experience living in Alaska. While I don't know which lithium battery chemistry I was using, I witnessed pretty much everything you discussed in this video. Kinda neat

@MrOrangeonion Рік тому

Kudos to the guys at the beggining, and gjob to you for using it on youtube! Great content

@mbusbridge1 2 роки тому

Great content here! Thanks for making it happen. At 9:06 You have a card up that says a Coulomb is the rate of flow of Protons? I thought it was the electrons that were measured for electrical current? I realize it's the same volume of charge per unit, so maybe that isn't a typo.

@TheRealMonnie 2 роки тому

A coulomb is the unit for the amount of charge. That charge can be static (not moving), or it could by dynamic (moving). If it's moving, the flow of the charge of 1 coulomb in a 1 second period of time is 1 amp (electrical current).

@geofflewis8860 3 роки тому

Tom, Thanks for your time and effort to educate us to an in-depth level. We enjoy your channel and look forward to switching to Lithium

@robertdavenport7802 2 роки тому

One thing to consider. IF you have to install your batteries inside, standard lead acids are out unless you vent. And at this point in time LiFePO batteries are close to the same price as AGMs for the same effective capacity. I just swapped out my exhausted 6V 4x225 AH AGM bank for 12V 2x100AH SOK LiFePOs in my older B+ van. Effective capacity is about the same. I had to change out the General Dynamics converter - that was $300. I also added a DC to DC charger to allow alternator charging - $170. Existing solar charger still worked. The LiFePO batteries cost 2x$570 = $1140. An AGM battery replacement cost for the same VmaxTanks AGMs is 4x$330 = $1320. My cost for LiFePO upgrade was (300+170+1140=1610 no labor cost, I did that myself) vs AGM replacement of 1320 or about $300 more.

@pensrud Рік тому

great comment :D

@NotPerfectButDone Рік тому

Thanks 👌

@CoralSea 3 місяці тому

Is LiFePO the same as LFP? Are they supposed to be very safe?

@smileycamel5635 Рік тому

Wow,...truly informative video,...answered a lot of my questions...thank you for testing so thoroughly!

@spencerstorck3298 2 роки тому

Great info! Wish I could go lithium but for the price of one battery I got a goal zero 400 a spare 35ah to chain to it and a 54l fridge and 150w solar panel and still had money to spare. It all works for me I run the fridge as just fridge but can do fridge freezer, charge phone, cameras, drone, RC and radios and it still cranking after 3 years. Run it in cold and hot weather and I'm out almost weekly using it

@the_kingd0m Рік тому

Goal zero 400 is lithium based...

@andrewbarnard667 3 роки тому

Just a thought were you measuring the battery voltage at the inverter during hi discharge or actually at the battery. Those battery leads were very very long . I've installed several inverter systems and battery leads of less than 1 meter improve the system dramatically and also as thick as will fit into the inverter.

@nessieandzee5194 2 роки тому

Thank you for this!! Just what I needed!

@GodiscomingBhappy Рік тому

i wish i found this video last year. great info. thanks

@trustedlocal2988 3 роки тому

Love this! I'm in process of doing research on building our own battery bank for solar for our self built skoolie. Cannot make up my mind for battery choices.

@MortonsontheMove 3 роки тому

Awesome! We've also written several articles about solar systems on our blog, which may be helpful to you as well. You can find all of those articles here: mortonsonthemove.com/category/rvsolar/

@sk7262 2 роки тому

very interesting video thanks. with RVs, boats etc batteries are always kept at full charge (float) via solar or mains all the time. how does this affect lithium vs pb? knowing Lipo its bad to keep them full all the time but at 50% long term is the same case? as that would make a considerable difference if you had to get up and go with only 50% in the tank

@lisinsignage Рік тому

Awesome. Leaving in the tropics in a place with frequent, short, power blackouts, so planning to install solar PV and batteries both for backup + save on electricity bill. Your study helped me clear my thoughts. So cheapest flooded if ok to give up on high load and low budget ELSE better to directly go LiPeFo if budget 😀

@kevinbreaux6769 2 роки тому

Thanks for your testing

@TomSpurlock 3 роки тому

Good data, thanks for sharing. You forgot to mention the other virtues of Lithium batteries. 1. They weigh half as much as AGM. 2. No venting is required for Lithium, they can be put most anywhere. 3 You can mount the Lithium in any orientation for stacking, unlike AGM that must be mounted with the top side up.

@MortonsontheMove 3 роки тому

Good points! I would have loved to go into more detail, but whew... thats a long video! Maybe when i compare different lithium brands in the future.

@guywood67 3 роки тому

AGM can be mounted sideways or in other orientations. Flooded have to be mounted top side up.

@dustyfeller 3 роки тому

Thanks for making this so easy to follow and relatable to real-life applications. If you can afford the initial price, the heated lithium batteries are by far the most capable and cost efficient over time for RV’s.

@MortonsontheMove 3 роки тому

You're welcome!

@chrislecky710 2 роки тому

I would support that motion. brilliant idea!

@dan149 2 роки тому

I'd like to see facts on charging times/costs for boating/RV applications as there are a lot more costs of other equipment, not just the batteries. More of a holistic approach. Yes you can discharge a lot, but how are you going to put it back, typical alternators on the engine won't do it, or running a genset for many hours. Also safety is the single biggest factor in my choice as I can't afford a uncontrollable fire on board a boat in the middle of the ocean. I do appreciate the data on the cost efficiency of just the battery

@brianc2341 3 роки тому

I'm a little surprised you didn't do any kind of test in the high temps. Which battery would work better in temps in 100 degrees or more??

@krisbrixon 2 роки тому

He was invited to battleborn due to their cold weather batteries.

@robswenson9598 2 роки тому

I agree, do things make a difference in a tropical temperature profile?

@flyboy5736 2 роки тому

I agree. Here in Australia cold temperatures are not really the issue for most RV'ers, cold is 10C.

@flyboy5736 2 роки тому

@@baddog9320 Which can be cheaper in the long run, you say lead acid and lithium are??? Depends on how long the “long run” is! I’m retired and if the long run means I have to own it for 10 or more years for lithium to be cheaper then I’m not sure I’ll be RV’ing then or even still be around! Horses for courses….

@flyboy5736 2 роки тому

@@baddog9320 Not too sure what all that was about. My point was you said lithium are cheaper then lead was, kind of confusing and the long reply above doesn’t answer it either?? Anyhoo, I think I’ll spend $250 rather than $1,100.

@andrewrivera4029 3 роки тому

Plus the Lithium iron phosphate batteries are 1/3 the weight of lead acid, important for RV’s.

@dansmith6990 3 роки тому

at 2/3rd's the weight, with 300lbs of lead acid batteries, you'd be saving 100lbs... that's nothing in an RV... don't be daft.

@overbuiltautomotive1299 3 роки тому

@@dansmith6990 so true so true

@Milesco 3 роки тому

@@dansmith6990 : Not quite as "daft" as you think -- the difference can add up. First, Lithium-ion batteries are actually about _half_ the weight of lead-acid batteries. Second, the larger your battery bank, the bigger the weight savings. If you have, say, six 60-pound lead acid batteries, that's 360 lbs. If you replace them with six 30-lb. Li-ion batts (180 lbs total), that's a 180 pound weight savings. Not huge, but not inconsequential, either, especially in a smaller RV. Furthermore, for a more apples-to-apples comparison, you have to take into account the fact that you can only discharge a lead-acid battery to 50%, while you can take a Li-ion battery all the way down to zero. So you really only need one lithium-ion battery for every two lead acid batteries. So then you can have just three Li-ion batteries to replace your six lead-acid batteries for an additional 90-lb weight saving, for a total weight saving of 270 lbs. That's significant.

@whatyoumakeofit6635 3 роки тому

Temperature control is also a very important thing to consider for rv batteries.

@overbuiltautomotive1299 3 роки тому

@@whatyoumakeofit6635 yep cold batteries lead acid ant the best. their need to cheaper materials used lithium is way to pricey for what it does really

@NapaHarp 2 роки тому

Great video and informative information. Especially the part that how cost affective the Flooded 6V Lead Acid Batteries are. I know that the LiFeP04’s are the latest and the greatest and that is what the video is pushing; however, your information about the cheep flooded 6V lead acid batteries says it all. They are very cost effective for what they are. Most RV’s are not pulling down 80amps on their batteries and the lead acid batteries handle the 8amp range very well.

@davidparker7156 2 роки тому

they are not cost effective over the life of a battery when compared to lithium. Especially if you build your own

@iamdeji 2 роки тому

Exactly my point. 8amp on 100Ah battery is not efficient. It is more than the 20 hour rating. He needs a minimum 160Ah lead acid battery bank for 8amps to be efficient. 1600Ah for 80amps. His lead acid battery bank is too small. I agree with using Lithium ion for high discharge but this video is not a fair comparison.

@andrehunter1295 Місяць тому

What do you think he earn his money from ? Giving away Lithium battery 😂

@jump429 2 роки тому

Great information, I have been working in the auto repair business for over 30 have seen battery quality go down dramatically does not matter what brand, flavor or cost, tried them all, your are lucky to get half the life out of a new battery as one made before 2008. In the U.S. there are only couple auto battery manufacturers they blame everything on all the electronics in new cars. I point out my 99 car OE car battery lasted over seven years and my 97 truck OE battery lasted over 9 years yet a new battery same vehicles will not last 3 years they have nothing to say. When there is a Monopoly and yes all the manufacturers are working together they even make batteries for each other the cost can go up and the quality go down. So it's no surprise to me lead acid batteries tested so poorly.

@garyswitzer6867 3 роки тому

Thank you for this extensive all enlightening series of useful tests! Just one quick question I would like to ask, because I just bought two (2) 12 volt flooded lead acid batteries for each of our two cars. I knew to put them on my "bench" automatic battery charger and they did read somewhat low and had to remain charging for almost a whole day before they were fully charged up & ready to install! Did those type batteries in your tests get fully charged up before proceeding? I'm sure you know & did this but I wanted to be clear it wasn't a design oversight since there was so much going on to set up and run your tests. Cheers.

@RVgeeks 3 роки тому

This kind of thoughtful, detailed information is so helpful, and presented so thoroughly. Awesome work, Tom! The incredible amount of work that you (and Cait!) put into creating, shooting, and editing a piece like this is obvious. How lucky the RV community is to have you as an asset. 👏

@MortonsontheMove 3 роки тому

Thanks guys! This was a tremendous ammount of work and we appreciate you noticing. :)

@ARepublicIfYouCanKeepIt 3 роки тому

@@MortonsontheMove The level of work necessary to create as thorough a piece as this is obvious. Echoing _RV Geeks'_ sentiment, _Mortons on the Move_ are a tremendous asset to the entire RV community.

@BEASTmodeontheRoad 3 роки тому

@@MortonsontheMove senpai notices

@ijblessjourney 3 роки тому

Agree truly helps for us who are currently looking at upgrading to lithium.

@ambersmith6517 3 роки тому

so true this guy knows what he is doing so refreshing

@dcphotoandvideo 3 місяці тому

Hi thx great video but how do you recommend insulating the Heat Lithium Batteries to keep them warm thx

@walrus10001 Рік тому

Very careful and thorough work. Thank you.

@garychandler4296 2 роки тому

I'm 67, started wrenching at age 7. One thing I've noticed with LA batteries is 3 strikes (full discharge) and you're out! Plan on amperage failure and a new battery very soon, worse in winter.

@MatthewBerginGarage 2 роки тому

Not necessarily, I am 63 and I accidentally left the CB on in my truck full discharged and froze my Exide Group 65N AGM battery in the middle of winter at -30C. I carefully thawed and charged the poor battery and it thankfully recovered and has lasted another 4 years. It still starts my 92 F150 every time I go to use it. The battery is on it's third vehicle and nearly 8 years old. If I had done that to a flooded lead/acid battery or a lithium battery it would have been scrap.

@exhauster2728 3 роки тому

IF i'm not mistaken, you left out one very important aspect in these tests. I would like to see the actual performance ratios of these batteries. Wh in / Wh out. For all battery types, brands and temperatures you studied.

@Sotzrem2007 2 роки тому

I learned A lot thank you. I work In Entertainment as an Electrician a common use case for 12v-24v batteries is Set Pieces that have a practical effect (Such as DMX Controlled Lighting or Mechanical) in them that can't be wired to 120v power due to the fact they need to operate on stage and be stored off stage during scene changes. Typically we use Ni-H batteries due to cost and that we are never running them down, and often are charged each night after the show. However, when Touring shows that are storing electronics at Canadian Winter Temperatures they often don't get enough time inside the theatre to warm up to normal operating temperature. Your video was very insightful about using Lithium batteries.

@MortonsontheMove 2 роки тому

Thanks for watching! :)

@lindapaulhelmstetter8704 Рік тому

This is the most compelling and complete review I’ve seen to date. I was wondering if you have you looked into lead crystal (SIO2) batteries vs. Lithium?

@johnfitbyfaithnet Рік тому

Also curious

@elbigotesdelatienda 3 роки тому

Great! I'm gonna go with Lead Acid batteries for my campervan.

@powell789 3 роки тому

If I was an a very tight budget and couldn't afford the LiPo, I would do the same. I had 6v lead acid batteries on my previous boat, the best performance for the buck except for LiPo

@traceywilliams2160 3 роки тому

Oh my, I was looking for the “translation” link to click on. I heard a little English throughout this language but I couldn’t grasp the language. If I knew the slightest of what you were talking about, I think I would have gotten a bit excited 😊 😊 I didn’t understand a word but I know you did an awesome job.

@nfinitymarine4466 3 роки тому

Long story short. Use lead for bullets and fishing weights. Use lithium for home and RV.

@a.w.thompson4001 3 роки тому

"Lifepo4" batteries provide a great combination of longevity (cheaper in the long run) and safety (e.g. fire danger.)

@magncity1817 Рік тому

Maybe in an RV situation, one would find it advantageous to run vehicle heater air into battery compartment, and occasionally run the engine to warm things up.

@easydiy224 2 роки тому

New subbie. I was able to use vMAX AGM battery for 4 years but by the end of the 3rd year the battery held very little charge and it was no longer a good experience. This is a great and informative video. Thank you 💓

@dscluchfc 3 роки тому

Awesome information! Pretty much as I expected...if you use the RV a lot, go Lithium...if you use the RV here and there, Lead Acid is better than AGM.

@SuperVstech 3 роки тому

@@ferp420 ... wow. I would love to see those dead lithium iron phosphate batteries you destroyed...

@SuperVstech 3 роки тому

@@ferp420 any chance you are near NC?

@Desertvanlife 3 роки тому

Don't let this scare you.... get what you can afford and you will be just fine

@jamest.5001 3 роки тому

Absolutely, no need to buy battelborn batteries for $1k each, it's much cheaper options that work as well or better, just try to keep them above freezing, and below 100°-115° F, basically keep the batteries in human survivable conditions, use a BMS, and be sure the high and low voltages are in check, don't depend on the BMS to prevent high and low voltage, they will last longer, and get what you can afford, and also double the capacity you think you will need! And get a tiny generator for emergency use, to charge batteries!!

@sparksalot4950 3 роки тому

I got what I could afford in 4 6 volt batteries, put a small residential fridge for 400 dollars verses a 1500 to 2000 dollar cost to fix the propane fridge. I have a 7500 watt gen that I start and run every morning to charge what the batteries drew out overnight. Went on a 30 day, 8000 mile trip around the states........no problems with the batteries.

@michaelbrinks8089 3 роки тому

If a person can't afford lifepo4 , I think spending more for AGM would be much better than going with flooded lead acid...#1 No maintenance/equalization charge,adding water,spills,etc...#2 more cycles/longer life plus they are more resistant/can withstand a deeper depth of discharge #3 they can charge up to 5 times faster than FLA since they don't need to use a 3 stage charging system. That right there is huge since the AGM can fully recharge if drained and there's only a few hours of sunlight left....(I'm still learning)

@flocof1 Рік тому

Thank you for this very informative video.

@RP-zm9kh Рік тому

Fantastic research and presentation. Thankyou for taking the time. I have taken a look at your other uploads and will start working my way through them and have subscribed. My hobby is sailing so there is some cross over info for me in your work. Good luck with your channel.

@MortonsontheMove Рік тому

Thank you! :)

@JeremySpidle 2 роки тому

I think I've figured out where the budget 6v flooded lead-acid batteries came from. The little round date sticker was the give away : I buy mine at my local Membership Warehouse, where their awesome warranty policies make their batteries an even better deal.

@kellypbr7742 2 роки тому

I've been living off the grid for over 30yrs, I use lead acid golf cart batteries and can get 5yrs of use out of them. They work, and cost less than these newer ones.

@davidchad77 Рік тому

You can get at least 10 years of those lead acid batteries if you overcharge them once ever 6 weeks like explained in Solar Secrets on emediapress by Peter Lindemann

@Ghredle 7 місяців тому

Agree with your real life experience

@seekerstan Рік тому

As a full time RVer in a small RV with 2 100 amp hr lead acid batteries and a single 140 amp solar panel. On any day that I use my 100 amp laptop for an extended time would pull my batteries down to 12 v every evening and the full recharge them early in the next day. So definitely not within the parameters that lead acid companies recommend. At the moment my batteries are toast but I am mostly on grid,. new LFP will go in before next off grid adventure. plus new low amp tablet to back up high amp laptop.

@tammiestevens6098 2 роки тому

Wow! Thank you for this research!

@MortonsontheMove 2 роки тому

Thank you for watching!

@dchungmanson 3 роки тому

Thanks for this exhaustive report The last 3 minutes are most useful

@christopherwhitney2711 2 роки тому

We seem to know this already in Australia as 4x4 enthusiasts and manufacturers have extensively covered this problem ad nausea. The drawback with Li's is it won't start your 4x4. Besides the idea isn't to have a stand alone battery to run flat, that's nuts, but to keep it topped up either as dual battery system in your vehicle, and if you can, taking advantage of portable solar by using a proper dcdc charger with a built in battery isolator, mppt and ETFO charging. You should even be using the mains at home or a generator to keep your battery healthy when it's on standby. So, in this scenario I just mentioned when properly rigged AGM's are fine to get you going and if done well some people never change. The idea of having a battery to discharge without topping it up or having a backup is a bogus application in a real world scenario, except if its for a small cheap throw away toy.

@dirkjefferson6202 Рік тому

i have definitely borrowed my solar agm to start my car a time or two lol.

@user-mq4sn9vj9e Місяць тому

MY GOD THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD INFO HERE!!!! AS A HD MECHANIC THIS IS THE VERY BEST DATA PROOVEN LAB TEST I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!

@michaels.ramsey7803 11 місяців тому

I can spot a "never start" when I see one, lol. great video. Thank you.

@stephencopestake2864 2 роки тому

I did an experiment recently with the discarded starter battery from my ML320 Wi63 - a Bosch Silver SO19 100Ah. I hadn't gotten around to getting rid of it and idly checked how flat it was and found that it had held a charge after a few months of being dumped under my kitchen table, so I connected a 12V 40W thermoelectric cooler to it and it kept working for a full 30 hours before stopping, and had kept 3 frozen freezer blocks frozen. So, even a 'dead' starter battery delivered exactly 100Ah. As it is 'dead' anyway, I figured it wouldn't do it much harm. It charged up again just as quickly as it would normally, so my next experiment is to try charging it from solar and using it camping while I save up for a LiPO4 battery, which will cost a fair percentage of what my car cost! 'If the resource is free, efficiency is not so important'!

@davidelliott5843 2 роки тому

A 100AH lead acid will deliver all of that energy but it will not for so at high current levels. You will also lose a considerable chunk of battery life. LFP will happily give 95% of its energy at near full current so what’s not to like?

@stephencopestake2864 2 роки тому

@@davidelliott5843 It's only the cost of LiPO4 batteries plus all the stuff to go with it...

@tyroneshulace3203 3 роки тому

I would have liked to see more Deep Cycle or Marine (which are a combined starter/deep cycle battery) lead acid batteries used in comparison than regular starting batteries. That is what the experiment test parameters were directed to......

@tomstdenis 3 роки тому

AGM1 is clearly FullRiver DC115-12 batteries. Which are deep cycle. The problem is he discharged them at the wrong rate. The manufacturer tested their claims at 5.8A not 8A.

@karlsjostedt8415 2 роки тому

@@tomstdenis Testing close to the use case makes sense for this test since the idea is: which battery is best for this particular use.

@marcuswetterlund2445 2 роки тому

@@karlsjostedt8415 I agree that's what the "test" in the video was but he States multiple times that the batteries didn't meet manufacturers specifications for capacity which is a test that needs to be done at the rate the manufacturer discharged at.

@MdShamim-ui9iy Рік тому

I have fall in love with lifepo4 battery. Extremely stable 😍

@gregf41c88 Рік тому

Thanks for your knowledge and abilities…

@fritzkabeano1969 2 роки тому

The real shocker (as of this time at the end of 2021) is there is now decent LiFePO4 100 amp hour batteries being sold for $300-400 on Amazon. Using that price structure makes buying any lead acid battery a complete waste of money.

@paulbianchi7877 3 роки тому

The next test should include the actual discharge and charge cycle comparisons. Also, the balancing that is not used on lead acid leave it at a disadvantage. Remove the BMS from the lithium is a more direct comparison. The VPC is in some applications, can be down to 1.67. Batteries are all not very efficient ever. Lead acid or lithium etc.

@emilen2 3 роки тому

What makes you say Li-ion or LFP are not very efficient? BMS is not an unfair advantage for Li-ion. You can balance cells at any level of charge, and it's basically only a safety measure should the cells drift apart.

@paulbianchi7877 3 роки тому

The conversion of energy ratio is not great, Even more so when the temp is over 80f and below 40f. The rate of efficiency decreases exponentially as the temp changes. The charge cycles and discharge cycles also decreases. Question> Why should batteries require heat or cooling.?

@keaneboyd87 Рік тому

I'd like to see them test a firefly

@rosaespinal7698 2 роки тому

THANKS MAN, VERY COOL TEST!

@louprentz8554 8 місяців тому

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC. I HAVE BEEN RUNNING TESTS ON BATTERIES A LONG TIME (YEARS) i agree with your findings. I get better results from the cheapest batteries than from the expensive marine deep cycle (ripoff)

@scotthelmann5156 2 роки тому

Excellent series of tests and review- all your tests confirm that the data from all my my experiments over the last 8 years are indeed accurate. Next up- perhaps you should talk about the difference between manufactures ratings of solar panel output and what you will see from a year old system in real life! This would be another huge eye opener for so many people!

@MortonsontheMove 2 роки тому

Thank you!

@solidsnake4022 3 роки тому

I would probably need 16 of these batteries for my home and trolling motors. That would cost nearly $16k. For that kind of money I prefer to buy a 60kwh electric car battery.

@RogueOntheRoad 3 роки тому

Okay... Sounds great if you have a tug boat. You will need a big battery totaling 1,333 amp hours at 12 volts. But your boat is huge so it uses 24 volts which would be only 666 amp hours. That's still a lot of battery.

@bobmariano3731 2 роки тому

Awesome info & video , much appreciated & thx 👍👋

@MortonsontheMove 2 роки тому

Thank you!

@ei513563854 9 місяців тому

Whenever a car battery reached its age limit, pulled it out of the car, refilled, put on trickle charger. I now have 6 of them. Runs camper 12v systems great. Solar panels and charge controller keeps them topped off nicely.