Same here. Honestly we should take this as motivation to go forward on our journeys in life. Live it to the fullest but also take the time to grow from your past failures. I know I have failed a lot. Thank you Toriyama and rest in peace.

Supa Saiya Jobber Tres (misnomer name as it isn't an ascension over an ascension at all, but another side-grade over SS1 with a big cost for little gain) wasn't going to save him even if retroactively humored. Vegeta would still trash him. Big facts. Want help learning this, boy-o?

@@BigVEEThat’s not what a Jobber is. It’s funny because Vegeta’s entire run in the series was basically jobbing to every villain before goku or someone else arrived. SSJ 3 only lost to two characters in the series while Vegeta lost to literally every main villain in Z and Super.

@@sideeyed7682 And GT

@@BigVEE Why don't you go outside, check yourself into a mental asylum, get better, and then finally finish school before trying to act smart.

@@BigVEE You're the type of person that goes and KO's kids at their school.

Pretty much lol.

@@goldman77700 I like to think it's the version of SSJ2 that's equal to SSJ3 that Future Trunks used in the manga as my headcanon.

It’s like a Super Saiyan 2 Evolution judging by the aura

@@Enerjjak it is bro, Vegeta doesn't need to turn ssj3, since his ssj2 is comparable to ssj3 (like future Trunks)

@@italianduded1161 Well as far as we know, Future Trunks in the manga is the only case of that we have happening and Vegeta was surprised by it. Anyone else having it would be headcanon since there's no aesthetic difference when we see it in the manga. That's why it's my headcanon.

Toriyama planned to give the role of the main hero to Goku's son Gohan, that is obvious since the start of Z to cell saga, then due to fan requests and his own failure to establish gohan as the main character in buu saga he went back to goku, even through entire message of the saga was about next generation Then he retconned perfectly good and original origin story of goku Aka bardocks story to copy paste Superman's origin story

I agree. Plus, I feel it was always implied that only Goku could have achieved SSJ3. Not because he has more potential, but because he was allowed to keep his body in otherworld. Goku struggled to maintain it when he was brought back to life, so SSJ3 was really only attainable and practical due to his unique situation.

@@AbOveandBeOnd1 Well but to be fair. Goku used it more and more throughout the time in Super for example, also in GT (yes not cannon i know) and even so goten and trunks needed to fuse, they were able to use SSJ3 pretty good. So i think Vegeta could achieve it, even so it would be harder for him, because he didn´t have the "easy start" in the afterlife.

And it's really ok because vegeta had enough potential to unlock super saiyan blue evolution and maintain the dark energy and turn ssjb berserk

Or you know just use their god forms after I am pretty sure that end of z is still canon

There's an ancient dragonball rpg on the super nintendo called "Dragon Ball Z: Super Saiya Densetsu". It ended at the Namek Saga because the Cell Saga hadn't even aired but the final battle was between Goku and Vegeta. No one had a form advantage in that one.

Agreed

Nope, final flas istn vegeta's strongest attack, gamma burst flash is

@@webgod7033oh right but I don’t watch or play xenoverse 2 so i didn’t know that

That was explained because of Vegeta's rage pushed his SS2 slightly above Goku's SS3 but not much but Beerus humored him until he realized it had nothing to do with SSG so he easily took Vegeta out. This is the reason why Goku decided to stick to Super Saiyan 1 and 2 tho and barely use Super Saiyan 3 because the Stamina drain isn't worth it when you can power up Regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 to surpass the power of super Saiyan 3 and not have immense Stamina drawback

Maybe if he hits Chi-Chi, then Goku would put a dent in Beerus.

>rivals Goku never wins. It is more that Vegeta is an arch-rival (nemesis).

@@BigVEEhe does win

@@Prod.Gohan1 >he does win I'm to take it you refer to off-screen, unsubstantiated claims from unreliable sources. Know what is reliable? What is shown. And it is always Vegeta. As for canon, there are no off-screen battles between them. Ever. They are barely around one another in truth (which makes Vegeta acting like he knows Goku all the more vexing **he is very wrong in his appraisals, but then he was just a mouth piece for AT who doesn't know his own franchise by his own admission**).

No he refers to actual canon being shown where goku has repeatedly overpowered vegeta in every one of their fights shown. Their first fight was goku winning and vegeta needing to resort to becoming a great ape and won that second round. Their next fight was goku literally handicapping himself against vegeta using outside help to boost his strength just to tie and sneak goku after the match was already declared over with the only time vegeta actually getting an official win was in the super hero movie where they were in their base forms and he barely won.

@@LegendXD00 >no Say "no" to the comma, capitalization, etc.? >actual canon The source material (published manga run drawn by and written by AT and no other in the end)? So, not Super (thus 4-0, not 6-0)? >where [headcanon] Funny. "Head Cannon" is what I refer to the Hammerfist (Double Axe Handle) strike to the back of the vassal's head (by his Lord Prince) as. >overpowered Too bad that's not a win condition (or true). >winning This ain't Tug-of-War, son. NOTE: Being anime-only as you are, shall you next give Vegeta the win for overpowering to the point of blowing his vassal over a cliff just to snatch him up and toss him to a wall to monologue at him prior to the next 'round'? Absurd. >resort to an option No rules. Also, not even true. Shall I teach you this reality? That Vegeta didn't even need Oozaru (and it was a bad call born of him not knowing he already won)? >their next fight was after skipping two more we don't talk about I see. >outside help Yeah, he was being smart for a tiny boost he likely didn't actually need, but whatever works. Tricked a wizard for an amp. This while Gokek got a tenfold multiplier back during the Pickle Senior incident via a cat giving him some lean (a fact, by the way). It is also how 'our hero' got ki sensing. Not earned since you care about this. Vegeta? Asspulls it. Like a boss. This while GTku is horrible for the double dip (Oozaru twice) and ignoring his limits (lower than Gohan), canon had his firstborn do this (Guru and later Old Kai). The same potential unlocked twice (with a bonus). Result? Jobs anyway. Awful. Super did a lot wrong, but the suddenly made-up concept of 'god ki' did offer one way around natural potential in forms (just wasn't well thought out). >just to tie KO is not a tie unless mutual, by the way. Generally the one waking first gets the dub. >declared This is not a Budokai, boy. Get tricked, son. Kakajobber should have learned back when Purple taught him this much less when he read the memories of Krillin to see Vegeta teaching Guldo that (to death). Vegeta then played him against Ginyu in similar fashion. No excuses (not that it would change what is). >base forms You seemed to whinge like Geets using Oozaru was not legit, but now higher forms potentially not had by another is fine? Hypocrisy. Tell me, did Nappa's defeat count or not? Regale me with your reasoning. They had a ceasefire between them. He was attacked from behind. The guy who did the Jobber Pose, promised to beat BOTH invaders and said he wouldn't need KK sure seemed to violate a lot of 'conditions' there. You know, it sort of sounds a lot like Bejita-sama's 4-0. >barely won >won See?

At least they've fought in DBS here and there which takes place before EoZ

He also didn't go SSJ3 during their fight because he had hardly used it which is why it took so long for him to transform during his plan to stall Buu and it had nearly exhausted all the time he had left on earth and it was so much that King Kai was highly against him using it and was trying to get him to stop.

@@AMysticLegend >SSJ3 >J Weeb, please. Also, Vegeta would have beaten him anyway. My offer still stands. Dare you take it, laddie?

@@AMysticLegend Exactly, regardless of what the vegeta fanboys are saying in the comments

@@LegendXD00 >let's be friends You going to exchange phone numbers? NOTE: Why is it so hard to finish your sentences?

Well just like how a early ssj1 was once level with Freiza to a few years later clobbering 2nd stage cell. You can also build on ssj2 power multiple times over.

Ah i remember it was only four years way back yesterday Goku did fought frieza,cell, and kid buu all four of them villains they are real badass warriors but goku did beat the stuff out of them 👍👍☺️ but goku he is strongest warrior but Vegeta he tries to out strong of Goku.

Caballeros del zodiaco

😂

I think dragon ball super happens just moments after the buu saga

@@cinder8155from buu to the end of z yeah. Somebody tried to argue that super goku was stronger than end of z goku and I was like how? Lmao

It was but then the author decided to come back especially after that awful DB movie that was made. Super takes place awhile before End Of Z tho so it doesn't ruin anything 100%

​@@manniefresh2022Nah EoZ Goku is obviously stronger as Super Goku takes place before EoZ happens. In the Super Manga EoZ still hasn't happened yet either and Goku has mastered his own form of Ultra Instinct too. I think a lot of those people are confused because they think that since the Super Anime and Manga are said to be after DBZ they think that includes the End Of Z also which is inaccurate.

No post game

@@freddyfartbear1987 There are still side.quests after the main story, the game itself says this

@@dragonballlover2880 yeah but this isnt sidequest this is main quest main quest has cinematic animation

no he said that in the og dragon ball first... when he trained goku and krillin remember

>one winner Vegeta is already 4-0. What more proof is needed than this? One for each dragon ball?

@@BigVEE4-0? You do know offscreen battles exist right? Vegeta implied many times he lost to goku

@@Prod.Gohan1 >off-screen battles Sure. But who counts such things? I don't with Trunks over Goten, thus he's just 1-0 over him. If you can't verify the claim, that's dubious. Worse, Vegeta's (and other's) word on this matter can't be trusted given so many (even the narrator) wrongly reports on the matter (like with Piccolo saying Vegeta defeated and killed him on Earth **we both know that didn't happen just as Vegeta never used ki barrage on Buu, yet Goku says Buu learned it from Vegeta**). Guy is left crippled while his opponent moves on to others? The defeated is the victor. Makes sense. You didn't think this through. Amateur mistake. NOTE: While you're on the line, what do you make of Vegeta's 4-0? This in reference to that fourth encounter's conclusion? Take any issue with tricking the naive into dropping their guard?

@@Prod.Gohan1 My God this dude is everywhere, I’m taking a scroll through the comments and he is in every thread doing the same thing

@@LegendXD00 >he's reminding them How horrible of me. >every Absolutes are absolutely tricky business. Only takes one exception to bring them down. >run-on Just like you. >still forgetting the full stop Why are you like this?

DLC 6: Goku’s Next Journey. It’s the latest one.

Tell that to Gohan

I think this is an alternate universe where Goku and Vegeta never met beerus

@@subzero112 then why wasn't Vegeta given SSJ3?

@@ronki23 idk but I wish he had ssj3

And this ocasion remind of Trunks of db super in that fight Goku again and him Go to ssj3 and Trunks rising his ssj2 até same level as Goku ssj3.

What kind of training did Vegeta and Trunks do to reach that

@@jonathonferreira7806 thats literally what Vegeta is using lmao

Goku doesn't tend to beat anyone notable by himself. And he never beats Vegeta (ever). Always loses, rather.

​@BigVEE If we're not counting Dragon Ball. In Z whether you consider guys like Nappa and the Ginyu Force notable is up to you but I do. He beat Frieza, he chose to back off against Cell, he could've killed fat buu but chose to leave it to Gotenks. He either beats his enemies or puts them through the ringer. Just cause he doesn't finish the job and kill them doesn't mean the victory means nothing.

@@THENemesisXX99 >not counting DB Why count anyone with this logic? Wouldn't we just skip to universal threats? Cell and Buu. No, it is within the context of the time. Is Tambourine a big dog? No. At the time, Old King Piccolo was that guy (ignoring things going on elsewhere in others places/times). And Goku jobbed. When he got young? Needed to be saved by Tien. He couldn't do it alone. And that's the point. Goku is far from HIM in canon. >beat Frisbee Not alone. Or did you forget how he lived long enough to use SS (inspired by the death of one of the people who helped)? Another took a laser for him after saving him from another earlier. Saved him TWICE. Even his brat was involved. Don't even try pretending it was truly 1v1. Vegeta got left hanging, not so much Gokek. This without getting into the nature of Spirit Bomb (when voluntary instead of involuntary like the first Earth case). >he ran, he gave up and he got eaten by Cell Sure did. BASEgeta dusted the crown of the big bad bug, which is hilarious. AT is funny giving him props like that. >c-could have No. You know nothing of what you speak. Majin Buu is not Mister/Good Buu. That one is less than half the meter. The other half was Evil Buu. Recall that Kid had a harder time beating Good Buu than Evil did. Neat, right? Because Goku was at about the level of Kid. Majin Buu was NEVER serious against him. He didn't need to be. No candy beam, no absorption. He wasn't even mad. Vegeta annoyed him, so he got serious showing some of his actual power (Super Buu). That was a peek at a power Goku wouldn't even front against (he later admits he had been stupid trying to act cool all this time with Buu **he was never actually capable enough repeatedly overestimating himself and underestimating the enemy**). Vegeta STILL (somehow) hurt him (by Buu's admission). No idea how that differs from others blowing holes through him, but Buu wasn't telling it like a joke. Just how AT wrote it. Back to that meter. 45% of it was SS2 Gohan. The other 55% was SS2 Goku (from getting the brakes beat off him by his prince for 4-0). Together this makes Super Buu who uses that power without being held back by goodness. For Majin Buu? He needs to get mad to dig deeper into his power reserves. Goku wasn't really ever 'in it'. He didn't have what it took. And that jobber form wasn't going to change that. he couldn't hang with Kid for a minute while SS2 Vegeta did more than that and then lapped it with BASE. >or [goalpost moving] Stop wasting words. Who, of note, is he beating solo? Go on. Try again. I'll wait. And make sure it is canon. Don't do something dumb like citing movies. >because it isn't a kill Who said it needed to be, lad?

@BigVEE This is awfully personal to you huh? It's one thing to make a counterargument but your words are laced with aggression and condescension. Hey you got it. My fault trying to have a casual debate.

@@THENemesisXX99 >personal Projection. >forgot the comma >repeatedly Of course. >gave up on arguing the matter I accept your concession. >casual Begone pretend "fan". Return when you are ready to learn the ropes properly. Until then, be sure not to engage in matters you don't actually understand or sufficiently care about if you're just going to run away (like Gokek from his nemesis **Bejita-sama**).

You am no real super sand!!!

You do realize he was too exhausted right? He used up pretty much all of his energy by being in Super Saiyan 3 And Kaioken in an exhausted or tired state could end up killing you or just temporarily crippling you. Not to mention this wasn't a serious fight so he had no reason to.

KK is gone in canon. AT just makes Gokek forget it. It isn't addressed in-verse why it isn't around (as with tails never coming back or zenkai going away). And SS forms beyond 'FPSS' (mastery of SS1) are worthless if you have KK. Using KK with SS3 would be beyond stupid (total self-destruction for no reason). Of course, KMHM matching GG is pure fanfiction when the two users are equal, but FF? Beyond safe copium levels. Gokek not jobbing to Vegeta is already this. Be happy you got a tie in your silly vidya. AT? Would NEVER do this. Would have been 5-0 (Vegeta is undefeated against Goku).

@@AMysticLegend Once again this guy is found in another thread doing the same thing

@@LegendXD00 What would that thing be? Is it helping people to learn the truth? Why do you hate reality? Is that why you escape it with the dream place through ASMR?

@@BigVEE Dude, you literally admitted to being an online broll. Give it a rest already and stop stalking my comment history, I’m only here because Mystic and another person said you were everywhere so lo and behold, I in fact see you in practically every thread doing the same thing. Move on already and do something else with your life

No it's just Mastered Super Saiyan 2 much like Trunks did in DBS

@@AMysticLegendAh.

​@@AMysticLegend don't you mean super saiyan rage?

@@subzero112 No. Trunks was able to master and power up his Super Saiyan 2 to be able to match Goku Black in his SSGSS form or "Rosé" in the Manga. In the anime Trunks could power up his Super Saiyan 2 to match the level of Super Saiyan 3

@@AMysticLegend oh... I don't get it though

HAAAA! GALICK GUN!!!

​@@The_Ultimate_Agent31:23 vegeta: FINAL FLASH

It's BS. It would only work if Vegeta's base would he leagues about Goku...and it clearly isn't.

@@mikitadou Yep. Super Shenangians.

not really, rn there's way more people who dick ride the vegeta hate than himself vegeta lmao

Alas, AT took his truth to the grave. It can never be canon. Vegeta will forevermore be undefeated against Goku. Sad.

1. It's supposed to be like a callback to their first fight. 2. It makes sense they'd draw because it shows just how strong and how much potential Vegeta has also to be able to match Goku. 3 The super saiyan forms are only as strong as the person's own strength and their mastery of the form. I think I'n the Manga and the anime Future Trunks had mastered Super Saiyan 2 to the point that it could almost match SS3 Goku's energy. I think even the creator said that 2 and 3 were just powered up versions of Super Saiyan and mastering Super Saiyan would push that power beyond those forms while also decreasing Ki consumption hence why Goku and Vegeta usually use Super Saiyan more than 2 and 3

Goku Base, Super Saiyan, 2, and Super Saiyan God faced a stronger Broly in the anime that Base Vegeta, Super Saiyan, 2, and God couldn't take on. And in the Manga Legendary Super Saiyan Broly could easily take on Perfected Blue Goku and Vegeta.

​​​@@AMysticLegend Yeah, you're right. People tend to forget that those ascended SSJ forms are just multiplied versions of the original. Even Bog Vegeta and Black Arc Future Trunks went beyond the level of ordinary SSJ2s. All it takes is enough power in their standard states or a significant rage amp to push them over the limit, regardless of the form.

@@150Hello Especially Goku in the DBZ Battle of Gods movie Super Saiyan 1-3 completely failed against Beerus but later on his body remembered and kinda imprinted on the God form and Super Saiyan 1 was able to match Beerus and Goku never noticed he fell out of his God form

@@150Hello Also Cell Saga Vegeta in the anime powered up to almost Super Saiyan 2 but not quite but to the point where Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, and Cell noticed his power spike after Cell killed Future Trunks and Cell actually had to brace himself for the attack Vegeta tossed at him. I love moments like these :D