The world does need another 1000 unboxing videos! Sadly them idiots get far more subscribers.

For those who don't know -- Jeff has a very interesting channel of his own. Subscribed!

@@Graham_Wideman not just Jeff but his dad too (Geerling Engineering), especially if you're into high power RF stuff.

@@KeritechElectronics Agreed!

@@KeritechElectronics We just finished setting up a new electronics bench, and I have watched far too many EEVBlog videos and read far too many forum posts in preparation for choosing the equipment we'll be putting in. My Dad and I both have our own home workbenches, and they're a hodgepodge of different tools and equipment (his much older than mine-he still has some tape degaussers!), but neither of us has a bench we would call 'efficient'. Trying to make a bench we can both use for our projects and keep it nicely organized! We'll post a video on it soon. Thanks to Dave and to everyone in this community, it's been immensely helpful!

Yes, it's slower screen waveform updating, I should have been more clear. So basically a processing throughput issue.

@@EEVblog I think that issue was mentioned on the 800X, so it's likely going to be fixed for both models in newer firmware.

@@Jmpguitars Thats the laggy UI when you interact with the scope, which could be fixed. Unlikely the performance of rendering the waveform will get much better.

Ohhh! That's good to know!

Seems you are right. I thought the PCI express connector was also a serial interface,

@@EEVblog AFAIK all of their scopes with built-in LA use the same probe. There's a DIY version of that probe on your blog site.

Same :)

Just beware inbuilt AWG's don't offer much in the way of amplitude or complex waveforms and even in HiZ mode will struggle to reach threshold levels of some devices.

@@tautech8196 I only need to generate a sine wave at a given frequency, though the amplitude requirement escapes my memory at the moment.

Be aware that this scope does not have a built-in AWG. Even if you add the AWG option, it relies on _external_ hardware to actually generate the signal.

@@tautech8196 My reply seems to have disappeared. All I need is a sine wave generated at a specific frequency, and I cannot remember the required amplitude at the moment.

@@Graham_Wideman What additional hardware is required?

SDS2000X HD is the better instrument all day long in every respect. Smart fan, fixed mem option, 500 MHz design, better probes, better system clock, internal AWG, professional grade LA/MSO probe as an option. They are also on promotion until June 30 2024 offering a heavily discounted option bundle with a new purchase.

Like the Tek I have has ?

You do sound pretty confused...stop demanding what YOU wanna see, and maybe be a tad grateful for what he is delivering to you free of any expense. Dave is making great content for you and I, and he even mentions that he ain't feeling well, so maybe have that in mind before asking for things. Let's hope he gets well, and perhaps then he can do all these things you want him to do..

@@jakobh.4422 Er what? 20:57 Dave says: "let me know if you want to do a full review or if you wanted me to test specific things I can do do that quickly and whack it up on the uh second Channel". Your imagination must really be turned up to 11 to read my reply to Dave as a "demand". Sheesh!

I've done a video related to that: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/kp6opGangm6F258.html

@@EEVblog Yes, thumbs up on #601 and #610 which are indeed related; solid and valuable discussion about the capture and rendering of noise. But I'm talking about the coarseness of the ADC capturing the signal in steps, and the coarseness of the display rendering slopes with steps. (ie: not about "electrical noise" though obviously quantization is a form of noise in its own right). This should improve with higher res ADC (4096 instead of 256 steps), and higher res screens (though this SDS1204X HD still has the 1024x600 screen same as SDS2104X Plus etc). Even with unimpressive 1024x600, traces could be smoother with judicious anti-aliasing, I think. This of course won't negate your points about noise -- but will allow the "aberrations" we see on the screen to be more certainly about legit noise, and not about the shortcomings of sampling and rendering. I'm hoping. A nuance is the way that low-amplitude electrical noise interacts with the quantization steps of the ADC: A finer res ADC does, by itself, improve one aspect of noise: Any signal voltage nominally at an exact ADC step threshold will permit any tiny amplitude of noise to produce one whole bit change at the ADC output (0.4% FS for 8-bit ADC), whereas that same signal nominally midway between ADC step thresholds would need a noise amplitude of over half a step (0.2% FS) to affect the digitized value. When the ADC is 12-bit, at least those amounts change to 0.024%FS (size of steps, sometimes unwanted) and 0.012%FS (worst case required to register), which should be a good improvement in hiding the noise that's not significant, and displaying more proportionately the noise that is worth seeing. As long as the limited res of the screen doesn't water down the effect.

Yes. Mine had so many bubbles that i was forced to remove it from beginning. Anyway a bench scope shouldn't need a screen protector. Glossy screen are worst to watch than a mate screen as this scope have.

You could still use the wb interface, but yeah, existing HDMI projectors etc

Yeah, I have an older (still nice) Siglent, and the web view of the scope is pretty nice, would be fine for most class purposes. In that regard way better than the conceptually similar Rigol feature. Also useful for conveniently capturing scope images to drop into documentation.

@@EEVblog One feature that can make Rigol name their price. Imagine somebody would made a screen-less scope, perfect input amplifiers and sampling whilst allowing you to bring your own 4k monitor and your favourite mouse to drive it. Would turn Bob into an new type of uncle!

But it would be easily confused with the SBUS port.

​@@LawpickingLocksmithR&S has got you covered :D screenless scopes are more intended for production testing ofc, and using the web interface on the computer that you're doing the work on is more comfortable anyways

The SDS1052DL+ is a very low end scope, and hence slow.

@@EEVblog I believe I know a thrift store that's going to end up with it because I have a 40 year old analog scope that will blow it out of the water.

@@ScottGrammerif you're going with a marine-based metaphor, I'd certainly say the 40-year-old scope would be a supremely better anchor! But seriously, despite several digital scopes, i do loves me my Tek 465!

@@Graham_Wideman Simply put, the old analog scope does exactly what I need. I just have to clean the switches once in a while. The new one is wholly incapable of displaying an eye pattern from a CD player, and it can barely display the waveform from two audio channels at once. And despite being "low end," it cost $300, and for that I expect competency up to at least 5 or 10 MHz, which is all it takes to display an eye pattern. Since it's supposedly a 50MHz scope, I assumed (wrongly) that it could do that. It appears that the problem is that the scope I bought has no intensity grading and not enough memory for the display. Oh, well. Live and learn. Anybody need a $300 digital boat anchor?

@@ScottGrammer Right. A digital scope is not a faithful replica of an analog scope, emulating a CRT, it's a different instrument with its own separate features. The main benefit to a digital scope is that it has digital storage and does not require a repeated waveform to capture and display a signal. Consequently, it does not have the built in shortcoming of an analog scope of a CRT with some short amount of persistence and no erasure mechanism. That shortcoming is an accidental benefit for the eye diagram display. But on digital scopes it is only replicated as a special feature, typically on scopes that also have intensity grading, as you noted. Your surprise at not getting this "basic capability" on a digital scope would be like a digital scope user being shocked that their newly acquired analog CRT scope lacks the "basic" capability of showing the signal before the trigger (on non-repeating waveforms). So unfortunately this scope was a poor choice for this particular task. That said, I rather doubt that it has trouble displaying two channels of audio, though the low end scopes may not have the prettiest displays due to limited screen resolution. But in general this particular scope at $300 does not seem like a good deal compared to applying that amount of money to any of several modestly more expensive scopes that are much better. I have had a lot of good use out of my Rigol DS1054Z, currently at $350 or so, and according to EEVBlog posts can do the eye diagram (I haven't tried it). In the $750 to $2000 range I prefer the Siglent line for some particular features, notably the web UI.

You can take the web interface and show it as large as you like!

Webserver via a PC works really well and allows for full remote control. Every possible operation can be done via a mouse just as it can when its directly connected to the scope.

@@tautech8196 I totally forgot this… You are right. Thus option works…But still, a dumbo screen can be find in the dumpster, and has no boot time, etc… Is just more convenient.

This are from screen protector. You can remove it. The scope screen is matte.

Cost saving.

i remember once upon a time netgear switches using hdmi connectors for 10GBe uplink lol luckily that didnt last beyond one product generation

For a moment I was expecting common sense. But room for legacy usb at the back!

Revising my earlier incorrect comment: Apparently this "SBUS" is not simply individual digital wires for the MSO feature. Evidently for this scope there's an outboard module (SLA1016 ) that provides the interface to 16 digital connections, and concentrates that into this SBUS connection. As a high-data-rate signal, I guess it has the same sort of electrical requirements as HDMI, hence Siglent's reuse of that type of connector and cables. (Not unlike serial ports that use RJ45 or RJ11 connectors, or foot pedals that use "phone" jacks.)

@@norbert.kiszka Also a low cost well behaved response connector, that is specified to handle nearly 1GHz clock rates, and which has multiple suppliers as well, with near identical products. Good number of insert cycles as well, cheaper than making your own.

[Edit] I'm now not so sure what the reason is for the sample-rate limitations for this scope (SDS1204X HD). The spec sheet shows: One channel mode: 2 GSa/s, Two channel mode: 1 GSa/s, Four channel mode: 500 MSa/s. So that seems like the bottleneck is not the ADCs, but rather downstream from there. In which case, if you want to use two channels, it should not matter which two you pick. But I was not able to find that written down.

There are two independent ADC's in each package. Look at the datasheet

@@ninethirtyone4264 Which datasheet are you talking about?

@@Graham_Wideman 10:34. 2 GSa/s interleaved or 1 GSa/s dual ADC, per each ADC.

@@ninethirtyone4264 OK ADC12D1000. The chip appears to have two independent ADCs and I think the datasheet says you can run them both at full bandwidth. But it has the option to multiplex the digital output to a single LVDS channel, and that could be the constraint in this scope. But the additional halving of scope sample rate with 4 channels suggests the bottleneck is downstream in the FPGA processing.

Got it in the Mailbag

@@EEVblog nice! When was i? I'll look for a video because I don't recall watching this one.

Datasheet spec: ENOB *1 (typical) 8.4-bit

SDS6000 models provide HDMI outputs also.

@@tautech8196 I was comparing them under the premise of recently released/reworked and being 12 bit, which the SDS6000 isn't afaik, well it also has a high res mode, but according to the manual that cuts down your effective bandwith to 0.028*Sample_Rate if you want to push the 8 bit architecture to 12 bit.

@@ignispurgatorius5297 Well all SDS6000 models in China are all10&12bit and we could well ask if they and western models share the same HW and I strongly suspect they do. On the China website all SDS6000 models, 4&8ch versions are listed as 12bit. An interesting exercise for possible hackability.

14 bits is 16k resolution. You got a screen that is 16k pixels tall?

@@Graham_Wideman people can save the waveforms which then allow you to really take advantage of the extra data, though i agree that if you have 12 bit its likely more than enough.

​@@Graham_WidemanMost 8-bit scopes can't capture microvolt-level signals with any respectable quality because of their resolution, input offsets, and ADC noise. Some struggle with low-millivolt signals. 12-bit scopes are a significant improvement, but I believe 14 or 16-bit scopes will eventually be the reasonable limit. When you're cranking up the gain to see small signals, the screen resolution matters very little compared to your ADC resolution and noise floor.

@@asm_nop But range switching is mostly performed by adjusting the gain of the input amplifiers, not by the firmware using just a subset of the ADC range (though the latter might apply to the very finest range or two, in which case I agree with your point.)

The Owon XDS3000-E series is 14 bit and in the same price range. Sample rate plummets to a mere 100MSa/s in 14 bit mode though. I wouldn't bother.

And Siglent's web interface is nice.

Siglent DSO's with Bode plot capability take control of the AWG for the stimulus sweep. It's full plug and play with any Siglent AWG and no AWG licensing is required to do Bode plots.

@@tautech8196 Thanks for that comment, good to know about not needing the AWG license for bode plot. For completeness, there are other Siglent scopes (including my SDS2104X-Plus) that do have an AWG built-in. Hence the SDS1204X HD AWG option description is confusing. But as I noted, the built-in AWG is not necessarily a win.

@@Graham_Wideman AWG option for the lower cost scopes comes in 2 parts, the HW and SW licensing. The optional MSO/LA is the same. Your X Plus uses the far better SPL2016 LA probe assembly. There is a DIY thread for these in the EEVblog forum.

@@tautech8196 Thanks again for your reply. Not the main subject of this thread, but when you say "the far better SPL2016 LA probe"... far better than what?

Wrong model

Too cheap, must be a different model.

This was the old 8 bit model -SDS1024X-E

@@Psi117 ok, the 12 bit version is not on Amazon when I searched.

Black spray paint is cheap and sticks good!

To signify the 12 bit range. In time the SDS2000X HD range will go to the dark scheme also.

As relevant today as it was back then. ukposts.info/have/v-deo/fX2BhpxpgmaitIE.html A proper comprehensive review video is a massive undertaking in time, and I produce over two dozen different types of videos. The curse of being an eclectic channel. Those debunking videos are popular BTW, often more popular then review videos. And yeah, I'll be feeding an oscilloscope to my kids tonight. If you gave two seconds to think about what you just said, you'll realised that to do an extensive comparison review I have all the other scopes to compare it with, I can't just go sell them to feed the kids.

Websters dictionary entry for "Entitled"

You Paying? If so, get a TEK and R&S while you're at it.

Nobody is going to follow advice to spend 3+ times the price of this scope that is completely unsubstantiated and quantified in units of "suck". But while we're on the subject, you know what sucks? Keysight's web interface and network software.