Lidar is not supposed to be substituting camera vision, but to augment it with additional information. Sure you can measure depth with stereo vision, but only if the object has sufficient contrast and illumination. When you're driving in the full sun, and are about to go inside a dark tunnel, cameras can't see inside the tunnel. When there's a white truck against a white background, there may not be enough contrast to see it. At night, cameras can only see where the headlights point. Stereo vision only works when you have multiple cameras looking at the same object, which is a problem for the Tesla because the B pillar camera is the only one that covers important side view sections.

His answer is just an evasive way to say "Lidar is too expensive to be used in your 100k tesla...", meanwhile processing the streams from the cameras represents a heavy computational workload for real-time identification of features... distance evaluation, and all the matrix algebra involved. Lidar provides real-time distance "measurement" in 3D at very low latency and requires less cpu intensive processing. Last never the least lidar will work day and night regardless of light, which is required by the cameras feeding the CV module. How about cameras + Lidar ? For added safety and redundancy...

1:40 Just because humans perform driving using vision alone, doesn't mean an autonomous driving system will not benefit from accurate depth information via lidar. If humans had the physical capability for distance sensing for eg. echolocation like bats or dolphins, you can bet we will be using that ability for driving

Their argument of vision only is based on the premise that vision alone is 100% accurate.

I think it would be lame to rely on only cameras. Learning through different sources is the way to go

Remember that he sold 1 million+ cars with cameras only and the promise so unlock autonomous driving in the future. He simply CAN'T praise lidar now.

He is completely missing the point that during biological vision, the eyes move very fast and focus constantly to get the best perception possible, cameras can't do that. I wish humans had active vision like lidars, bc perception of depth based on vision alone is not very accurate to begin with. Musk is wrong here.

i dont know.. when it comes to 3d scanning , Lidar is faster and way more effective then photogrammetry using massers of visual data and processing it into a bizarre zombie version of a 3d model.. but i do agree with him about cell structures is way ahead of our technology. The problem is that we wont be able to get our technology anywhere close to the level eyesight is on in our life time, since that would require fully understanding how our brain works (and getting our conciousness to understand itself without commiting suicide)

The fly don't use LIDAR.

I don’t think it’s right to say that either option is the correct way. Safety is the number one focus and if both systems together can compliment each other to provide enhanced safety measures then I can see that happening in the near future. There have been numerous crashes and issues using just one or the other and if used together, it could vastly improve pedestrian/driver safety.

As a 3D artist and Python developer, I see that direction and need to achieve the level of the human eye for vehicular observation & navigation. In order to do this they are not only going to have to pursue vision but what he said was we had to develop our own LIDAR so now they will have to develop ocular-based camera technology to achieve their results.

Cue the video of a Tesla completely yeeting a child sized doll while all the other Thomas cars using lidar detect said doll and come to a full and complete stop

Does Elon know there is an automotive lidar on the market that offers dynamic range at low latency, and is under $500 per unit? Hell you cant even buy a car bumper for that much!

Wouldn't your car need a freakin' super computer onboard to run this neural net??

But the problem with cameras is fast changing light settings and dark spots of course the different angles of an object

this was 2 years ago which is a century in tech. Lidar is down to 500 $ and Tesla is using it on their next gen cars

Elon Musk likes to compare self driving against human drivers but he should remember that each human driver is legally responsible for his own failures. Near-perfection is not good enough for automobiles that are mass produced in millions and drive many miles every day. The problem with machine learning-based computer vision is that it can never guarantee its results, and that small chance of failure will eventually cause accidents in many places. Lidar is worth the effort if it can eventually reduce the chance of accidents by a very small amount.

What about when it’s Fog or dark how reliable will be vision. In those scenario Lidar is necessary. So to use fully autonomous vehicle probably need lidar and vision both for safety and reliability. Am I wrong ?? Anyone who can answer

What about infrared and other wavelengths of light? They provide all the characteristics of traditional human vision

I would agree with Elon Musk, if they had cameras with comparable performance to the human eye. Unfortunately such a sensor is not have been made. For that reason i think that lidar is necessary to make up for the lack of information. Also it is not bad at all, if the computer have more information about the dept, than a human, there are accidents where false dept perception was the cause. I agree that vision should be the primary information source, and for that reason you don't need a state of the art lidar system, a worse consumer grade sensor would be plenty.

I disliked the modern internet hyperbole of using words like "slam" or "hate." Just because Elon Musk says that LIDAR is a bad idea doesn't mean he "hates" it or is "slamming" it. Maybe to investors hopped up on adderal and cocaine it may seem that way but he's casually saying it is a bad idea and we shouldn't depend on it and give up on the idea of autonomous cars.

One thing people dont understand lidar( infra-red ) and vision (visible light) are the same thing with just different wavelength !

If the goal is to solve driving in good weather than sure cameras can solve the problem but if we want our self driving cars to go beyond the capabilities of human vision and drive safely in low visibility situation than at this point of time Lidar is the best solution. My prediction is that in the future Teslas will only run inside tunnels OR Elon will be forced to add Lidars as backup. After all extra $300 bucks on a $40,000 car means nothing when it comes to Human life.

I love how the captions are just a strong simplification of what is being said without question, like tech could be summarized as "good" or "bad". This Musk's groupies should start a cult.

The statement that no one uses lidar to navigate our body is facetious. Of course we dont, but we also arent made of inorganic material. A computer and a brain are two very different things working on two very different spectrums.

I think that is too broad we had to use right tool for the right job . For fast and long range then lidar is good like drone aerial photography but for deep underground or behind building then ultrasound and radio wave , microwave and nano aloha are unbeatable and harmless so each is designed 2ith functional in mind

The compute power is what makes lidar better. You can do a lidar scan with a Resepi lidar unit from Inertial Labs and the small internal unit can make a 3d cloud almost instantly. 30s after landing a drone you have a point cloud compared wit 5-6 hours with picture for 3d mapping. In other words lidar gives far more detail far quicker.... and yes it is expensive.. a Resepi Lidar unit costs 30K so it isn't viable for vehicles yet and cheap lidar isn't much better then a camera.

Given most humans can't drive worth their a**... I'd give lidar a try.

And then it rains, is dusty, or there is fog. or you come up against a highly reflective or highy mat surface that imagery cannot percieve depth from.

how do the cameras do with rain on them or fogged up ?

The point of computers and tech is to be able to do what humans cannot, why is there this emphasis to try making vision systems behave exactly like we do? Computer vision isn't great. I've heard of Teslas crashing into motorcycles because the computer vision thinks the two very close, low down tail lights on a motorcycle, especially a touring motorcycle are in fact a distant car. Absolute joke, LiDAR would have seen this.

seriously doubt someone as unqualified as elon "spearheaded" creating spaceX's LiDAR. what he means is the same thing Steve jobs meant, someone else designed it and he announced it

LiDAR helps to do a lot of new things that you are not able to do without it. Digital twins are one example of it.

Those guys are clueless. Airplanes have VFR for clear skies and IFR when no vision is possible. The more sensors, the better.

The people talking about Lidar clearly didn't watch the video. If you watch the very end, he states the benefits of Lidar.

Very Interesting stuff

VOLVO will be using LIDAR for the EX90. Lidar is not lame. VOLVO knows about safety. Trust me on this. radar ranging is also essential technology and TESLA shouLd be using it not removing it and then patenting a SUPER RADAR!

Normal glasses was not made to see better in the dark, only a infrared glasses, i mean LIDAR was developed to air surveillance and reconnaissance, not to sensor of self drive car

What if it’s pitch black dark?

Yes

Humans crash cars all the time and are a horrible benchmark for autonomous vehicles so saying humans can navigate without lidar is really not a good argument. You can use cameras and such to infer distance but feed in accurate depth data into that data-set and you'll have huge improvements in your learning algo. Additionally, Lidar doesn't need black box ML algorithms to produce the depth data, so make for more a more predictable system which is great for a safety mechanism. Machine learning algorithms frequently act unpredictably when presented data that wasn't in their training set, and we can see that there have been crashes in Tesla cars that simply wouldn't happen if they had lidar data to check the algo. Additionally, Lidar is getting cheaper... it's in consumer electronics so this idea that it's expensive is evaporating quickly. Maybe Musk is right and once we "solve" computer vision, lidar will be unnecessary, but if we can get cheap accurate depth data, why not?

Specifically speaking navigation in a car? What if i am a sailboat entering a channel of ever changing currents and shoals. I fly a drone of the entire sweep of of the channel overlaid with the contour of an existing navigational map. Another passive income owner 80 acres of timber wants a real time summary of how many trees, what volume, board feet, and have an almost perfect analysis of volume, count and board feet. So just one of many aspects of the use cases, and saying it is lame, is like saying the docking with the docking station is lame. Practical value is realtime mapping of growth, change and passive fingerprinting for the mariners, woodland owners, farmers, and developers of the future cities that did not have the supply chain or the trail surveyors map. So the title may be invalid and lame for saying lidar is lame, the value to surveying damage, growth or change far outweighs robotic navigation for space station or car driving. Great to know it is lame for your products. Now what about those who work to feed, house, and navigate the channels of life.

this makes intent. Profit motive with intent. I could build a case with this.

He promoted Hyperloop too. People make mistakes.

Compare Bat vs Human navigation ability hmmm

With optics and image analysis you get the probability of an object, with lidar you get solid data. Too many bugs with visual perception.

So funny when it thought about how a ai is Able to tell where it is I thought dots

Instead, smart use Lidar to win battles 🎉. If every country get lidar in their military and a nuclear, no one can threaten you.

So basically lidar is long distance brail

I agree and disagree. 1) Developing AI camera based computer vision equal to that of human capabilities is essential. Using LiDAR as a crunch is for losers 2) Driving down the price of all sensors to a few cents/dollars is essential 2b) Once the price of a sensor is low enough to be negligible, adding it to a tech stack increases future capabilities and use cases

just like a human would normally do, an autonomous car should adapt its driving choice according to the visibility conditions. ex: If a autonomous car can see through fog and so doesn't need to slow down, that would be seen as danger for other non-robot drivers, and so create a grater danger.

The question: if human could shoot lasers and get depthmap on top of the color vision, how the brain could it? Why evolution totally skipped that capacity? or maybe it has been developped, but it was a failure and so disappeared.

Lidar for landing gear on rockets ….

3:04 my brain must be broken, they are the same size for me.

what do you mean ,you came here only with vision ,young friend and what is will then what is intention what is attention

Bruh 🤦🏿‍♂️ even a kid would let you know redundancy is best. They really got lost in the sauce of "once you solve vision, you solve autonomy" my brother in christ, you're not getting full self driving if you're stubborn aboutyour data streams.

i think they both have to work together lidar and vision! what if theres no light how can vision see??

Guaranteed Elon uses LiDAR

Lidar can tell me if im actually heading into a tunnel or if the roadrunner painted visually accurate tunnel in front of my Wile E Coyote ass. Visual information like symbols, traffic, road signs, pedestrians yes That should be visual. and it is my job to see it. but lidar aids that. Lidar is objective. Lidar says, with certainty, something is truly there, and isn't an illusion or mirage. And there is a measurement between source, and target. Where with a camera, there isn't. Cameras help me see an image with immediacy an image I need to see now, and with clarity to extended ranges Lidar needs to work in TANDEM with my camera to tell me how far away everything is, as lidar alone cannot produce visual clarity like a camera can, but Lidar provides objectivity in what its lasers CAN hit. so that my car can respond to it My car is my co-pilot in this endeavor. If I get something wrong, the car gets it right. If the car gets something wrong, my judgement corrects it. And together we form a complete brain Removing LIDAR is like removing touch from your senses. You are going to notice that sense being missing And wish you had it once its gone. It would be like if your hearing went from stereo to mono, and you could no longer tell relative directions and distances of sound sources. It would be maddening to not have a vast combination of complex senses after previously having them.

Yeah, Elon musk doesn’t use LiDar, instead, use super expensive gpu for all the vision tasks. Must be genius for budget

but camera can not see well in low light/rain/fog condition, and LiDAR has become much cheaper now due to technology advancement

If Lidar's cost comes down to just couple thousand, is it still stupid?

OK, release your product when you actually "solve vision".

first of all using autonomous vehicles to drive us around is lame. I don't want to rely on any kind of machine to decide how and when to drive me around. I don't want my life to have to adjust to the autonomous machine in order for me to get around. I want to remain the one in control of my whereabouts and I want to remain as the one to be in control of the machine that'll take me to and from where ever I may be going. I don't want my life to be autonomously controlled by any kind of machine. I don't care if it makes everything else run smoother for everybody else, I care on weather or not I'm in control of whatever may make my life smoother. When you go to an amusement park ride, you are not in control of the vehicle you are in, I don't want my travels to be limited to have to stay in my vehicle till the vehicle stops and it decides and tells me when it's safe for me to exit.

Lidar on the street cams no more crims demolition man future total recall

Game theory in action. Give more ideas

U cannot call someone’s invention stupid

elon musk is really one to talk about “expensive and unnecessary”

Engineer. Don't forget.

Imagine an NFL quarterback retrofitted with LiDAR and software uploaded into his brain to compliment his eyesight. It’s just a ridiculous example but you’d get complete passes all day.

I call bullshit. Visual interpretation is susceptible to misinterpretation. Lidar is a theoretical bump stop.

Fact vision can’t detect distance as lidar. If China solves the cost to be affordable than they will lead better car autonomy.

Someone bring Musk to Lahore, Paksitan. So he may check fog here. No eye can work here. 😅. So the cameras won't. Self driving cars are supposed to overcome the humans weak points as well. Like no vision in the case of fog etc.

it is almost end of 2022, there will be a very little time left when he will have to eat what he said here.

Diffraction limited, all I have to say.

elon out of his depth as usual

LiDAR mars

My car has Lidar and saved me a couple of times. In this age of cellphones almost everyone are on their phones while driving so LiDar is necessary

and winners have his FSD crash into police cars, one after another

Agree with Elon

Yet another thing Elon will be wrong about. Lidar allows for so much more data that a simple camera just can't do reliably. Try using AR apps on an iPhone with the lidar sensor and an iPhone without one see which is more accurate.

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But the cars hit ppl and crash

Con men LiDAR is the future

Guess cars functioning at night is for losers. unless... well I'm sure 360 degree infrared will be much cheaper /s

More money for musk

his attitude is why people burned to death in his cars

The speaker after Elon definitely ate one too many adderalls before this speech

And losers deal with musk.

Elon keeps saying human level is the metric we need to reach and is achievable with camera's only.. It is absolutely unacceptable to have this as the bar. There is a big difference if someone is killed by a human driver and if someone is killed by a corporation via their self driving program. It's going to stunt trust in the autonomous driving industry and open Tesla up to lawsuits. I don't get why he thinks that is acceptable when in fact he uses Luminar Hydra LIdar sensors to calibrate his own nueral network and gather ground TRUTH data which wouldn't be neccessary if his camera's were up to task. Cool with me he Tesla will soon be passed by others fairly quickly as they put out an average of 1 million cars a year while Nissan for example puts out 4 million passenger cars themselves and 9 milliion cars per the alliance.

Lying about LiDAR 😏

remotasks lidar lame

Elon is a tool. LIDAR is the future for improving autonomous driving.

Yup, Elon and SpaceX makes lidar, he should know.

Wtf are these guys talking about. I used to listen to Elon musk but this is so transparently cringe. Using LiDAR is trying to create fully autonomous vehicles and there are countless accounts of hilarious Tesla self driving malfunctions. Obviously I can see if I drove there. Thanks for the anatomy lesson on eyesight. This makes me want to invest in LiDAR because of how scared these dudes are of it to produce this cringe

and the worst self driving system out there goes tooooooo..... tesla XD elon isn't your friend, he's money hungry, and a 4chan troll

Lame argument. Animal don't have wheels as a mode of transportation just fine. Let's get rid of wheels on the car too!

remotasks

Stupid prediction as always.

He's the loser who has Robo taxis not Tesla