OMG its you

It’s more helpful for predators to move backwards, they have a limited sight

Yeah. the prey that were dodging were fun to watch. I just wish they had stationary food to eat to gain energy,, because after they dodged amazingly, then they got tired and became sitting ducks

You did not get it, preys have 360 degrees vision. Eyes are just cosmetic feature with no influence.

I hate that, I think this shouldnt be the case.

I agree, as a biologist myself I was really impressed with how well this simulation demonstrates predator-prey interactions. We even see numerous adaptations in both the predator and prey populations. The prey population for example began creating herds at some point where individuals at the center were more protected. Truly awesome work.

@@jamalyeboah4322 Same with how the predators would start working together or approaching the prey from behind.

I would like to have that at my school

bro this has been done soo many times let the man have his simulation there are more that are better then his

@@dlastwire5365 And who asked smart guy? Why don’t you go watch them then.

It's basically the fox and rabbit equation. If one variable (predator count) increases at a rate based off of another variable (prey count), and that variable decreases at a rate based off of the other variable, they form a cycle of increasing a decreasing, with the predators being about 90 degrees behind in phase.

Food web

It was surprisingly interesting to see how low the numbers could drop and then skyrocket back to the max. It should put us to think before trying to intervene when observing changes in the ecosystem. It's part of dynamic balance.

@@robwilliams6753 if there were no more arguments, your ego would drop off too

@@digitalisdizzydamn..

I noticed that as soon as they started grouping, and the predators behave like wolves.

@@hyperblueeonbeta they would converge to wolf like behaviour if there was communication mechanism between the predators.

@@udittlamba I was stating that multiple predators can be observed "attacking" a prey.

i mean yeah prey animals usually like to stick together

@@toetruck1589 Some prey get super territorial, but most seemingly stick together (strength in numbers and easier to blend in with a group making it harder for predators to pick out any individual)

I 'm pretty sure that is already implemented

Moving backwards should also come at a speed pentalty.

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@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 moving "backwards" is irrelevant in this simulation, the eyes are just a visual thing and the preys have their circular FOV so theres no "front" or "back" to the preys

@@JMaximusIX There is a front and back, as their sight is dependant on direction.

Thank you! Didn't know about Lotka-Volterra, thank you for the reference! it is always fascinating to see a natural law emerge spontaneously from a simulation

Yeah!!! I was thinking about those differential equations (lotka-volterra, predator prey model) And I would like to see the whole simulation but without an upper boundary to see what happens. Pretty nice work!!

I worked on a project with L-V equations so I don't wanna mention how hard my heart sank when I noticed that they were following an L-V model lol

Love seeing the expected periodicity in the predator and prey population sizes in the bottom right, shows you did a pretty solid job modeling :)

@@oscareduardofloreshernande7853 I coded something like that (but way less fancy and without evolution) as a toy demonstration of the lotka-volterra limit cycles for a uni assignment a year ago: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/f2SiqGuaiomXmoU.html

Thank you!

@@PezzzasWork it was very cool! I also have an idea: what if some predators/prey are slightly different speeds than their parents? They could be slightly different tints, and I was wondering how that would work out.

i wished he could also make a variable for actual "physical" fitness. Eg, give predators and prey a standard deviation of energy and speed. cause that would have proven even further evolution through fitness.

Less like "survival of the fittest " and more like "The perishing of the maladapted"

​@@DG-iw3yw Fundamemtally, that is moreso how evolution works

No.

@@teet1337 bruh it’s a good idea

see if any of the predators start eating foliage and start holding Signs saying eating Prey is Murder

There is a game u can download called the bibites that sounds extremely similar to what u just said. Lowkey think this guy got the idea from that.

I'd love a remake of the video with your ideas included

exactly this were my toughts too! I even went a step further to add clime as well rain, temperature, etc. :)

I would add prey defences just like in nature such as deadly horns, kicks, and stampeding.

@@mtolives exactly, or even something like mobbing by prey, protecting young by prey, threat perception by predators. Some form of aggression/deadliness modifier. Could be done by rng? Eventually those with a higher aggression number would breed, but the counter aggression/deadliness by predators would also be forced to evolve. The proverbial ‘tooth and claw’ evolutionary mechanics. Evolutionary arms race we see irl.

I agree with Mark. 1. Prey should also the predator of lesser being, like plant. So they also have to find their food. 2. Predator should have bigger feature than the prey. 3. Terrain, aka Hiding place. There are should hiding place all around the map where predator has bigger problem to reach it. But because prey also need to find food, they eventually has to get out of their hiding place. Make both prey and predator a bit more complex. like they should also need to sleep.

@@gunh4129 AI, like ants do not require sleep in order to function. They do however, require energies.

thats what the resting represents

I don't think they can see each other, I think since they reproduce when they stay still, they tend to grow into big colonies together just because that's where they were born

Thank you! Your turn to do a video now :D

@@Hailfire08 There's a reason why I said "seem" lol... I've actually written some similar simulations before where the entities *appear* to display social behavior, when in reality they have no idea that any other entities like them exist, I just think it's an interesting example of emergent behavior

@@PezzzasWork I was actually just working on editing my next video and I took a break to watch yours haha

Nice! I will be there when it is published!

So humans farming and herding is predation behaviour.

@@Zenovarse Not necessarily, as predation is the act of 'hunting' a prey. Humans have in the past derived a large amount of food from hunting, however farming and herding is separate from hunting. They are born and raised in a captive environment and then slaughtered, there is no hunt or predatory behavior, it's simply a life cycle that's controlled from start to finish by the harvester.

@@Zenovarse it did resemble how dolphins herd fish into balls in order to catch them easily

@@Lithane97 ehem, yes and no.. It's different but same at the same time.. There is a step between domesticating the prey and pure hunting.. Population control.. You don't hunt in special times, even if you could.. You hunt animals that have "overpopulation" or endanger you otherwise, this makes hunting more efficient.. And domesticating is then just the next step.. U get rid of the need to put energy into finding the prey..

@LEO&LAMB YES

dmub bnnuy

I agree

Thank you, this comment is like a second christmas to me :)

add stress level? more rays adds more stress/time but you can temporarily disable the rays (closing your eyes) to reduce stress/to rest moving a lot also increases your stress level if it goes to 100% you die

Yes, and make predators and prey start with the same FOV. That way making predators and prey having the FOV they had will not seem like an arbitrary decision, but rather one that evolution favours.

Prey would likely favor higher fov since they only need to sit still. If there aren't a lot of predators, they'll have plenty of time to sit around. However, if there are more predators, prey may favor lower fov so that it can run for longer.

You should add health bars too. Instead of it being a one-hit kill with the predators, make it a 2-hit kill or randomize the damage, or base it on other factors that can develop with the evolution. The best bart though is why not let the prey do a little bit of damage? Make it so they do 10% or so damage to the predators max health so when the predators dive into the big pools of sitting prey, they have a chance of not coming out alive. Could randomize their damage too and a way to regen health, maybe. I feel like you wouldn't want to make their lifespans last longer for the sake of the speed of the simulation.

watch bibites

Nice 😉

Completely wrong. you completely disregarded the point of the demonstration, overlooked the interdependant variables. everything. in this simulation both prey and predator GET STRONGER OVER TIME! always! this how the simulation is SET! there is no "tought times" or "weak man/creature". its a cicle that CANNOT and i repeat CANNOT be extrapolated for HUMANS. and you know why? cause the biggest predator of humans, are HUMANS!

I think we are in in 3rd stage right now..

@@amin56754 Dude your like 5, stop making everything edgy

@white lady gaming what did they say?

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@@EEEEEEEE E

Maybe there would learn to farm the prey by just standing close to them while surrounding them so that they have a constant source of food.

I think they can see each other. They start hunting in groups at one point.

@@superboi If they move in the same direction they don't split. And they move in the same direction because they have similar brains.

I did something similar to this once but with the addition that it cost more energy to stay alive the more upgraded it became so it had to be able to utilize the new speed/strength/etc effectively. It allowed for speciation into cheetah types, tank types, etc. My favorite was what I called the plant. It soaked up the ambient energy (light) and had zero speed, defense, etc. Just exists

but there is, at 2:20 they explain it edit: 2:14

@LEO&LAMB I can't tell if you are joking or not. 😅

@@nicholaslogan5185 lmao this guy 😂

@LEO&LAMB In a GAN the AIs fight it out which is why these simulations are non-deterministic. They are meant to go out and try new things. We give them the building blocks for growth, and they apply those rules until they reach a point where they reach conclusions logically that were derived from the rules of logic but not concretely expressed.

Same, even if the predators did win, they wouldn’t have any prey left so they’d die

I don't know why I started doing this but I enjoy it very much :D

Flocking does actually occur a lot with prey. It can be seen clearly in the timelapse.

Same, it could lead to a lot more interesting behaviour.

I will try to integrate that, with some rules to allow preys to defend themselves for example

@@PezzzasWork this game about to become a race war with two way fights

@@PezzzasWork Damn these videos are awesome. You really need to implement these nice new things and then make a video out of them again, that would be phenomenal.

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@@EEEEEEEE I concur

And to fight back and mutate phicical power

Someone figured out how mother nature works. Usually this is taught as a program in coding classes, with wolves and sheep. You can manipulate the amount of sheep, and wolves, and watch in real time that when there is more food the wolves multiply quickly and hunt sheep, but when there is a small amount of sheep a majority of the wolves die. Three Results happen towards the end of the program, the sheep manage to starve out the wolves, and explode in population. The wolves consume all the sheep, and quickly die. Or you get the numbers just right, and the cycle continues forever.

@@notleviathan855 The reality is that once the sheep population drops to the point they become difficult for the wolf to find, the wolf switches to different prey, prey that is more abundant, giving the sheep numbers time to recover. The difficulty with such models is you are modelling the interspecies relationships between a single prey and a single predator, and the real world is almost NEVER that simple. There are a few cases where it is, but they are very much the exception not the norm. Most predators rely on multiple prey species, as most herbivores rely on multiple plant species. When you start trying to model those complex interactions than the simulations both start looking very different, and climb rapidly in complexity.

@@alganhar1 , it is reducible, though, to something like this, where you can just consider all predators as one group and all prey as another group. Regardless of how many of the predators are made up of wolves, coyotes, etc. or how many of the prey are made up of sheep, rabbits, etc. That simple simulation can still reach the same conclusion as real life, typically equilibrium, but sometimes the destruction of one or both groups.

@@notleviathan855 In coding classes? I learned that wolf/sheep example in biology!

yeah. Ideally, the predators would want to be good, but not TOO good, in order to survive. But the natural curves we see are observed in nature too.

maybe some of them would turn green to try to be an (among us impostor noise) fake prey

I just assumed they gain energy from photosynthesis. xD

That would be great to bring irl consequences into play.

Would have to be careful with the first one, they might de-evolve and identify as something else and not breed at all! (j/k)

@@DavidMTheKrucifix Playing w fire, my friend

@@DavidMTheKrucifix lol thats what i was thinking. that must've taken much bravery to say in a public thread.

@@robyrobt1714 It's because FACTS don't care about others feelings ... Remember, that Gen X noone wants to talk about ... well their kids oare almost voting age!

@@UniverseofDominion Well, I identify as NOT OFFENDED, so I don't care!

This! Please would you share the code or a compiled executable?

Or at least tell in which language this is made.

Pls I was thinking the same thing I would love to be abble to do this to just enjoy myself playing

Le dot

Code or tut would be nice!

When you give predators the ability to eat predators and evolve into herbivores, it's quite likely that they will evolve into herbivores. Because being a herbivore is easier, as you don't have to chase other creatures. And I think the only reason predators were able to last so long is because they couldn't eat each other. Predators eating each other would have saved them when they were starving, but it would also take away their advantage over herbivores: lack of predation. The reason predators last in real life despite being able to eat each other is because herbivores make the best meals. Plants are hard to digest, and carnivores are dangerous, provide worse nutrition and are more likely to give you a disease, especially if they are scavengers. I know that some scavengers, like vultures, stop disease, but that may be due to competing with other scavengers, like flies, and eating scavengers could still give you a disease.

@@magentamonster IRL herbivores are dumber and slower then carnivores and omnivores. BTW most of the animals that we call herbivores are actually what is called "Opportunistic Carnivores" like the humble deer which will munch on a bird if it gets the chance. true herbivores are like cows. they can stampede but are otherwise pretty slow. Also cows are among the animals that shouldn't still exist if humanity hadn't farmed them. soooo yeah, the world tends towards omnivore and predators might evolve a secondary ability to eat plants but it's more of a 50/50 if set up correctly.

@@liamnehren1054 Perhaps another reason why predators evolved into herbivores and scavengers in the simulation is because it was too easy. In real life, it is complex. Many genes control diet. There is no use in an animal wanting to eat plants when it doesn't have the appropriate digestive system. And herbivores are more vulnerable to predation, so any animal evolving into a herbivore must adapt to counter the increased risk of predation. And I think that the reason why predatory traits are lost when a predator evolves into a herbivore is because they waste resources and are vestigial. Sharp teeth may make it harder to eat plants. The reason why sharp claws are lost when an animal evolves into a herbivore is probably because it is worse for locomotion, since some herbivorous, bipedal dinosaurs like Iguanodon, therizinosaurs and hoatzin chicks have them on their arms. Also, many herbivorous birds have sharp claws on their feet.

Yes. It was a bit silly that predators ignored prey close by but off to the side. They should have a simulated sense for hearing and smell or at least the ability to “glance” left and right. Could predators also use teamwork to hunt one target, and take half the energy from a kill they herd/trap?

@@magentamonster Birds need claws to hold on to branches, bark, and masonry. All life is different, and the most fit to an environment are most likely to breed there, as evident by Darwin's study of finches.

The more pressures you add the more complex the model gets and the more inaccurate. That is the very reason why Evolutionary Models are considered by those of us who actually work in the field as imperfect tools. This is not to say models are unimportant or useless, they are not, they can and do help drive our understanding of the true complexity of the tangled web that is Evolutionary Pressure and Selection. But we always have to keep in the front of our mind that they are imperfect tools, and while useful they should not be taken as gospel. The problem is they are simplistic. No computer can handle the huge number of variables that are all traits of a single organism responding (so being selected for or against) by the environment in which the organism lives. Bear in mind that environment does not just include inter specific competition or interactions, but intra, as well as the innumerable reactions to the physical makeup of that environment. And this is before you add the elephant in the room that is random mutation. Now most Evolution is essentially selective pressures working on traits that are naturally variable in any population of sexually reproductive organisms. Usually mutations are either neutral or deleterious and either remain in the population not doing much, or a swiftly weeded out in the case of the deleterious mutations that have no positive advantage. Occasionally however you get a mutation that is advantageous, and it spreads like wildfire. A good example is the rise of Lactose Tolerance in humans. Go look at mammals and see how many are lactose tolerant in their adult years. Humans are literally the only example, at least as far as I know and I am fairly up to date. That is a mutation that arose some time early in the history of domestication. That is pure random chance, and no computer on the face of the planet, now or likely ever, will be able to come even close to modelling the effects of random mutations!! Including I may add humans themselves!!

Well, the goal of these is rarely to emulate life or reality, as usually the only thing that is being 'mutated' between generations is behavioral choices. E.g. generation 9774342 is just as fast/slow as generation 1, but the later generation has developed the ability to control its rigid physiology better. Barring the AI finding a 'hack' as they often do when tasked with a gamified task and goal, I fail to see how it could become more inaccurate (at showing the rise of behavioral changes in response to environmental stimuli)

Pretty sure Omnivores have a huge advantage, but it would be interesting to see if it creates some kind of never ending cycle where nobody ever wins

@@Ze_Chevalier My thought would be omnivores couldnt 1v1 a predator, and they would have more access to food but have a disadvantage at the nutrient gain as they arent specialized in digesting any type of food. Maybe they could even require a balanced diet and a mutation could effect the spread there, but that could be making things too complex.

@@TravisTheArtist dead animals leave bodies which can then be eaten by meat types, and depending on how much of the body is left uneaten (maybe it has 5 small food points), it will then cultivate plants in that area after some time

@@TravisTheArtist The prey in this simulation would be the plants, they are the begin 'food'. The predators in his simulation would be the herbivores, they hunt the plant. If you make the omnivores eat herbivores and plants, that's 1 competition between omnivore and herbivore for plants. Then make predator eat ominvore and herbivore, 2nd competition between omnivore and predator for herbivores. If you make predator eat predator, then the moment it spawns a new generation, it would see it's offspring as food, and the offspring sees parent as food. Simulated cannibalism ;)

If u want to add canibalism, then u need to add gender and multiplication with it, or u end up with one predator eating his own children

well it's possible to co-exist on some patches of mutual benefit in civilized society, this example was not one of those lols

From the point of view of a single prey or predator, they did co-exist quite a bit. Everything comes to an end.

Don't forget Orange & Yellow, I'm not colourblind but I have a friend who has trouble differentiating the two

Black and White on a Purple background would be perfect, I'm assuming.

Is there some kind of filter that you could use that could replace green/red with yellow/blue? Maybe a monitor setting? Obviously that wouldn't work for everything, but for situations like these where it's specifically the green/red that you wish to tell apart.

@@chad_bro_chill Yeah I feel like this is the kind of thing that a browser extension could probably fix for him for any future issues he might have. Dalton is the one my friend uses iirc

@@chad_bro_chill as far as I'm aware there's nothing that can do this well, at least not on mobile which is where I watch most videos. Besides, with ~1 in 20 people having some form of colour vision deficiency designing things in an accessible way is important, and red/green is possibly the least colourblind accessible combination you could choose.

You found the code yet?

Same here. Looking for some good example code to study for this type of simulation. This one is super polished, love it.

Would also like the code

I think the avg lifespan of prey because the predator will catch on in numbers. More prey, more predator. Less prey, less predator.

I'm not sure if there is much bias when the simulation is based on whether or not the predators can hunt all the prey, and both the predators and prey look like they have their own advantages, being the predators can kill multiple prey in a row and the prey don't need to seek for food for energy or survival

I don't really think that it's the bias when predators win and lose simultaneously. If irl predators would eat everything they can, they would simply die of starvation. The more biased result for me is that, when prey wins, they could also lose. Why? Cause irl they would also eat up everything they can, and in one moment they also might run out of food. Still, the greens can start growing back, so when the prey population decreases, the food amount will grow etc. So yeah, it's pretty natural that if predators win they lose, for predators to live on they just can't eat all the food in opposition to prey, where food has a chance to grow back automatically

Casual Geographic has a video about "biologic Jenga" on his channel here, look it up

@@squotty_patty4478 if the prey starts eating up all the green they'll cause a collapse in the ecosystem for many other animals, namely destroying food sources and allowing for the plants that they don't eat to further push out other plants and cause mass erosion and all that. At least that was the case when the elk population shot up after wolf extinction. Young aspen and willow trees got ate, the beavers almost went extinct, wetlands became rivers and tore up the soft ground, and the coyotes ate pronghorns into the floor.

I was also thinking about what strategies would evolve in the organisms with both a prey and a predator, since those tend to be the most interesting creatures in real life

As well as possibly having a second type of predator which only preys on the first type but has larger energy storage

Thank you! I am not using an engine, it’s written from scratch using c++ and bgfx for the rendering. What is shown on the video is the actual 14 minutes of simulation running in real time on an m1 MacBook Pro. This program is currently single threaded so it could run faster but it was enough for the purpose of this video

@@PezzzasWork wow thanks for your reply, now I'm even more impressed! Crazy to think about all that is going on (even without rendering) on one part of a single chip 🤯. Also amazed that you could set this all up, seems like a lot of hidden work I underestimated, thinking you used an existing game engine or something... Contrats !

Thank you! I am now using BGFX instead of SFML

After watching some of those videos i started making my own in c++ 😅

@@diogofidalgo2202 I would really like to know the tools you use. I am really interested in this kind of things, and I am studying programming, so this could be a great concept to investigate.

@@sebastianr.1919 C++ and a 2D game library called allegro. I draw everything on ms paint. Since i learned programming by myself my skills are very limited. For example the view range is a circle, they have a mutation called "eyes" with 5 lvls. At lvl 5 u see the creature with 5 eyes. Legs is also a mutation that affects run speed. The brain however is not this good, they have some things that change, migration direction, diets, colors they eat (8 or 9 colors) and hunting true or false.