Fake Frames or Big Gains? - Nvidia DLSS 3 Analyzed

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Video Index:
00:00 - Welcome back to Hardware Unboxed
01:54 - What is DLSS 3?
06:05 - Where DLSS 3 Works Well
11:07 - Where DLSS 3 Struggles
17:19 - Input Latency
23:56 - Other Important Aspects
27:18 - Final Thoughts
You can also read this review on TechSpot: www.techspot.com/article/2546...
Fake Frames or Big Gains? - Nvidia DLSS 3 Analyzed
Disclaimer: Any pricing information shown or mentioned in this video was accurate at the time of video production, and may have since changed
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Outro music by David Vonk/DaJaVo

КОМЕНТАРІ: 4 000

@Hardwareunboxed Рік тому

PC Building Simulator 2 is out now on Epic Games Store: store.epicgames.com/p/pc-building-simulator-2

@James--- Рік тому

@DankBlank Рік тому

Not egg!

@GewelReal Рік тому

Epic...

@riba2233 Рік тому

on what? lol

@PrefoX Рік тому

you make one big mistake, you always say dlss 3 vs dlss 2, BUT you can use dlss 3 without the generated frames, so maybe you should say generated vs normal renderer or something. still a great video

@gustavosanches3454 Рік тому

Placing that 4090 so close to the edge of the table and then waving the hands around was quite the thrill

@luminusprotect Рік тому

thats just what in the industry is called edging

@atom_zero5413 Рік тому

Omg I can't unsee it now

@solhsa Рік тому

yeah, he could hurt himself

@volvot6rdesignawd702 Рік тому

with the size of that thing i think he would fall before the gpu does !!

@patricktho6546 Рік тому

his linus is locked out

@ukaszChorazy Рік тому

'Frame hallucination' is my favourite description of what NV is trying to do here

@iikatinggangsengii2471 Рік тому

native to quality has great increases though

@gamtax Рік тому

They're sharing what Papa Jensen is smoking...

@MrMeow-xl7pd Рік тому

DLSD

@Shini1984 Рік тому

We used to call this "smoke and mirrors" but this time around, smoke has hallucinogenic properties, it seems. And mirrors have imperfections.

@Danuxsy Рік тому

In the future entire games will be hallucinated with NN's

@GrizzledNoob Рік тому

Wow! Bravo for this video. It is amazing how you broke this down to a very understandable level. It is also very hard to put a video like this out that is fair pointing out the good and the bad and allowing the audience to make a determination how much any of the information may or may not matter to them. I am beyond impressed. Thank you!

@lonewalker527 Рік тому

I love this kinds of deep dive analysis. I really appreciate this kind of awesome and unique work.

@AlexanderHuzar Рік тому

This is why independent reviewers are invaluable to the industry and consumers alike!

@ekinteko Рік тому

True. Also 120fps/120Hz is plenty fast for 99% of gamers. So if you're already at that level, it actually doesn't make sense to use Frame-Insertion. Most would argue the experience is worse due to the lag and artifacts. Just like how Max-Ultra Graphics are mostly pointless, since you can have a game looking great with High Settings, and choosing certain elements carefully. Or having beyond-4K Graphics are overkill, when you have 1900p resolution intelligently upscaled. Or even using Raypath Tracing at this point in modern technology. Not even the best RTX-4090 is capable of such feats (2200p/145fps/Ultra Settings/RTX-On), but you will get something visually competitive with significantly cheaper hardware like RX-6800 (1900p/FSR-2/120fps/High Settings/No RT). I suspect that DLSS v3 is in "beta testing". Just like how DLSS v1 finally had its quality and performance issues fixed with DLSS v2. We should see similar thing with DLSS v4 launching in 2-years. The question is, does AMD-ATi have something in the works as well?

@nephilimslayer Рік тому

@@ekinteko 4k ultra are not pointless.....thats where i wanna play at 60 or even 70 fps or more

@blindguardian8599 Рік тому

I agree.

@lukesalvidge118 Рік тому

@@nephilimslayer ultra is kinda pointless, it's a lot of GPU resources for not that much gain in visual fidelity compared to high settings

@Zeus-gd2ne Рік тому

Don't listen to this dude people like him compromise themselves for 13k likes of slack people who cant get a job or work harder for their dreams lol For DLSS3.0 the artifact is truly unnoticeable and Also with RTX4090 on every game you get at least 110fps 4k max with DLSS3.0 quality mode so HUD problem is unconceivable. lol

@HardOCPTV Рік тому

This has to be some of the best investigative hardware journalism I have ever seen done. I can't believe you got this depth of analysis in such a short time. You deserve a nap, Tim.

@NoBodysGamer Рік тому

This is no different from all the DLSS 1 reviews way back when 2XXX series came out, making it like useless tech that makes games look worse, and than DLSS 1.1 came out, 1.2...2.2 and so on and now its perfectly find and technology most people wont turn off [i had 3090 and always used DLSS] Its too early to give deep analysis for DLSS3, we need to wait for them to fix all the bugs, make it out of beta and see that games implemented it right Now its just bunch of negativity

@NetworkNinja84 Рік тому

@@NoBodysGamer This is nothing like original DLSS. watch the video lmao. DLSS original was a the right product not doing what dlss3 is doing. Its just marketing crap. DLSS 1 just needed time. This is already doing what its suppose too do and just for small level of users.

@CutiePi Рік тому

They've been my go to for analysis and reviews.

@garyb7193 Рік тому

Nvidia did AMD a favor by releasing DLSS 3. FSR may have never caught dlss 2.x but dlss 3 is definitely within reach. Now FSR 2.1 and DLSS 3.0 has image artifacts. One with greatly improved fps, the other with fps improved to a lesser degree but improved latency.

@mausgrau Рік тому

Yes well done - I need a nap too from listening

@Qbit42 Рік тому

This is one of the best and most objective videos on DLSS 3.0 I have seen so far. Thank you!

@playmaka2007 Рік тому

I'd love to see a video of extracted dlss3 frames with no traditional frames. If every other frame in a dlss3 video is AI generated, perhaps it's possible to resample a screen capture video to only show the AI frames by skipping every other frame.

@SubOxyde Рік тому

That would be magnificent. 👌

@schmoogen Рік тому

I would love to see someone compile 60 FPS footage of AI only frames.

@MarcusHast Рік тому

ukposts.info/have/v-deo/e59koolqcI-rmp8.html

@TheEchelon Рік тому

That's would honestly be interesting to see

@TrollingstonJohn Рік тому

2kliksphillip plays with this idea in the video “upscaling” go check it out

@elektromagnetik2786 Рік тому

its really hard because video encoding would probably hide or exacerbate most of the AI artifacts, it would not be representative of the real experience

@mapesdhs597 Рік тому

@@elektromagnetik2786 Before the YT encode step, one could perhaps capture uncompressed.

@LG-jn5fx Рік тому

So to summarise DLSS 3 is only useful when you just do not need it.

@MA-90s Рік тому

Yup, I thought it that when he was discussing 60fps rates.

@user-wq9mw2xz3j Рік тому

I think its the opposite. It still looks bad at times, so I dont wanna use it and definetly would not pay $2k to use it lol, but its in games like msfs, and other slow paced low fps games where it is needed most, and there the frames being "fake" does not matter, the smoother image is whats wanted

@Skylancer727 Рік тому

Yeah it's really odd isn't it? You only benefit from it if you already have a good frame rate, but turning it on then penelizes you with screen tearing as there really aren't any 240hz 4K monitors. It also doesn't have DP 2.0 so getting monitors like that still seems unlikely unless they use HDMI.

@anuzahyder7185 Рік тому

The use case is rare

@1armbiker Рік тому

You do need it though, how else are you going to generate a graph that shows Nvidia is totally 3x faster than anybody else?

@emilnoren3694 Рік тому

I think frame generation would be much better used to maintain a minimum framerate, as artifacts in those scenarios may be preferable to stuttering. As a way to improve average framerate it seems worse than lowering image quality in its current state.

@thezeke1984 Рік тому

To get my 60 fps i prefer to lower shadow and grass rendering than getting weird artifacts like that.

@hagaiak Рік тому

@@thezeke1984 Wouldn't work. Most open world games these days have highly variable fps based on scenario. Crowded city, tons of NPC? drop below 50fps. Out in the open desert? 70+ fps. If you want stable FPS, the only way to achieve that is through dynamic scaling techniques, such as DLSS, and other dynamic techniques.

@thezeke1984 Рік тому

@@hagaiak open world -> mass grass crowed city -> lots of shadow.

@hagaiak Рік тому

@@thezeke1984 Again, you can't aim for stable FPS no matter what settings you choose. Decrease shadow settings to get 60fps in city = you'll have 80+ fps out in world no matter what settings you choose. Pick almost any game, that's the case.

@user-mh6ie9wm6m Рік тому

@@hagaiak I think that with time and a MUCH more strategic use of frame gen could offer complete frame stability. Imagine. Youre getting your desired fps out in the wild, youre getting 90- 100 fps. Now you trek back to the city where ordinarily you'd drop to 70-80 fps. So instead of DLSS 3 rendering every other frame willy nilly and trying to achieve the highest possible fps, it aims to maintain the fps of environments where traditional raster is only needed. So instead of generating every other frame, it could generate 1 every 10 frames; or, in a crazy hectic scene it could temporarily boost to its highest frame gen to maintain frames. I think it best case use would be the game using internal benchmarks to see where youre getting the best FPS and progressively turning frame gen on and off in relation to your 10% highs. It could be a seamless experience aimed to decrease the amount of perceivable artifacting whilst maintaining average frame rate and as low as possible latency. So imagine, you're in a city and youre in a gunfight. All of sudden, a massive enemy crashes through the wall leaving a ton of debris and particle effects flying through the air. Ordinarily, your 90 fps experience just dropped to 50 fps in traditional raster. But aha, frame gen kicked on for that split second encounter smoothing out the entire encounter to that buttery 90fps, then going back to traditional raster. The perfect support system.

@kamen42 Рік тому

Thank you, you basically confirmed both my immediate concerns when I heard how DLSS3 frame insertion works. (input lag, artifacts)

@TechHunterOfficial Рік тому

'Small knobs, big knobs and large shafts' I've never been so eager to check out Flight Simulator before 😂

@cap7215 Рік тому

And all that in the cockpit

@MrIsmaeltaleb85 Рік тому

The was fucking deliberate 😆

@Talbonator2000 Рік тому

This video is full of tips.

@texedomel01 Рік тому

Great analysis! So DLSS 3.0 gives you frames when you don't need it and kicks you in the face when you do.

@Ghos7king Рік тому

Basically. 😂

@bryzeer5075 Рік тому

And offers at least 2x performance over the 3090ti without DLSS and about 4x with DLSS.

@neoqueto Рік тому

@@bryzeer5075 defending nvidia there, I see? Go on mate, have fun. At best it offers little over 1.5x the performance. At 2x the price. DLSS nonsense is irrelevant. You're a clown 🤡🤡🤡

@qwertyouriop2 Рік тому

@@bryzeer5075 *40-50% rasterization, x2 with dlss in like 10 games.

@Tleilaxu_Mentat Рік тому

@@bryzeer5075 Nobody cares about proprietary features like this or PhysX or GSync or whatever especially since the major consoles are on the AMD platform. Only the Ngreedia fangheys are spooging over this.

@LXIX4U Рік тому

Great in depth video as usual. Keep up the good work mate.

@bb5307 Рік тому

The UI artifacting and increased input latency are a huge dealbreaker for me. I'll stick to DLSS 2.x and FSR 2.0 (luckily they are seperate options in the menu)

@PadaV4 Рік тому

Yeah i don't care about frame count, i care about latency. Its just that normally more frames = lower latency. DLSS 3 frames do nothing to lower latency, in fact it makes it bigger.

@bb5307 Рік тому

@@PadaV4 Yeah, I don't even mind that much how 30 fps looks ingame, it's just the moment I start playing it it's like a big fat turd through a funnel with how sluggish it is is what I can't stand about it. People don't mind low fps video playback because it looks good enough and latency and responsiveness is not an issue unlike with videogames.

@JustAnotherAccount8 Рік тому

@@PadaV4 With reflex, there is basically no difference in latency

@LSK2K Рік тому

@@bb5307 Reflex does iron that out to some degree. 7 millisecond in latency is not bad with DLSS 3.

@PrefoX Рік тому

you can use dlss 3 without frame generation, but it is still going to be dlss 3

@kingplunger6033 Рік тому

Maybe this is another reason for releasing the 4090 first ? If its worse when your base fps is lower, the other gpus probably benefit less and thus the initial impression of dlss 3 is better when used with the 4090.

@PrefoX Рік тому

no, it is known that all Ada GPUs have the same power for dlss' frame generation.

@tandlose Рік тому

@@PrefoX watch the video. Dlss 3 is better with higher framrates => its better with 4090 other the other cards

@attemptityourself5662 Рік тому

@@PrefoX nope. Way to be confident in you're misinformation tho. It's logical. The more/faster "real" frames you feed an algorithm the "better" it can predict the motion of the next AI generated frame. If you took an algorithm to predict frames between a GPU operating at 1hz that's A LOT of motion to fill in via prediction.

@FaridRudiansyah Рік тому

Not really, many high end card ( Or product in general always to be released first

@attemptityourself5662 Рік тому

@@FaridRudiansyah that's not true. The 30 series was the only gen to have a "90 or titan" card on release. Previously the 80 was upper gaming tier and released usually with the 70 then a "Titan" was released 6mos or a year later.

@finraziel Рік тому

Been watching several recent videos on this channel recently... I always discounted it because of the name, not really being interested in unboxings. How wrong I was on that count, these videos are excellent :) As for DLSS3, it's basically as I feared once it was explained that the tech needed to keep a frame in buffer for it to work. Basically you don't want to use it for the same reason that you don't want to have frame smoothing techniques turned on on a tv if you game on it. In the scenario described where you could use it (singleplayer, high framerate, not sensitive to inputlag...), that's the scenario where I personally wouldn't really value the result anyway. Maybe some people can really tell 200 fps (and Hz) over 100 fps in a lower pace singleplayer game, but I certainly can't.

@psyringe5627 Рік тому

It started as an unboxing channel, but changed its direction pretty early on (but not early enough to start fresh with a new name, I guess). Tim and Steve are providing some of the best hardware analysis in this space, imho - very competent, very thorough, and quite well explained and presented. I remember when DLSS was launched with the 20 series - almost every other reviewer just repeated nVidia's claims about the underlying AI technology. Tim seemed to be the only reviewer at that time who actually understood AI and neural networks on a technical level, and he was therefore able to quickly identify and demonstrate problems that most other reviewers missed (despite being glaringly obvious to anyone with experience in neural network design).

@MrRaphaelLippi 11 місяців тому

I think it could be used on single player games where you usually get 30fps, but want a 60+fps smooth image.

@bartbroekhuizen5617 7 місяців тому

Thanks for this review and analysis. Did you do also an analysis on DLSS 3.5?

@weetjewatikwil1 Рік тому

we are so lucky to have Hardware unboxed. you guys are mad lads x

@sahilrawat5621 Рік тому

Never follow the official narrative, the mainstream is misleading... kudos to Hardware Unboxed for standing with the people

@jeremyphillips3087 Рік тому

Sometimes I wonder if life is even worth living, and then I remember that we have Hardware Unboxed and I feel a little better.

@ThisIsCexary Рік тому

@@jeremyphillips3087 Hey man get help...

@RemusKingOfRome Рік тому

Wait till you see their "Fans Only" site ...

@EarthIsFlat456 Рік тому

@@jeremyphillips3087 It isn't.

@kaimaiiti Рік тому

So, in summary: DLSS 3.0 is perfect for people who are playing non-competitive titles and already achieving 120FPS on 144+ Hz adaptive sync monitors as long as the game is not input sensitive and does not have much moving UI text and the DLSS 3.0 is not pushing their frame rate above their monitor frequency. Glad to hear that this is not a feature for a niche market.

@TrueThanny Рік тому

Well, why should they limit you to sketchy interpolation artifacts? You want that screen tearing, too, so consider it an added feature.

@stale2665 Рік тому

@@xwize Half of which are in nVidia's marketing department

@jayh8840 Рік тому

I think 60 to 90 fps is a good spot to enable DLSS3, should boost you to about 90 to 140 fps.

@ender-gaming Рік тому

Don't forget not only do you not want to push over the frame rate but the game needs to have an even frame-rate by itself. If looking at an empty part of the city doubles your frame rate you'll not be able to be over 120 during the majority of the game and not over 240hz with DLSS3 when in the lighter parts of the game.

@EfrainMan Рік тому

It's kinda like Nvidia asked: "How do we take this technology we developed that really helps people with low end hardware only benefit you if you buy high end hardware..."

@jlmonterrosa14 Рік тому

Excellent, unbiased analysis, as always. Thanks Tim and Steve for all the hard work you do.

@DarkSwordsman Рік тому

@@MaTaMaDia Everything is inherently biased. It's more about how much bias there is and whether or not you want or can sift through the bias to find the data and context around the data.

@ErrrorWayz Рік тому

It's not unbiased - they heavily favour AMD, always have, which is understandable but sadly Nvidia just make the best card.

@jlmonterrosa14 Рік тому

They favor value over everything. Like everyone does. Doesn't make them biased. They still recognize a good product when they see it.

@ErrrorWayz Рік тому

@@jlmonterrosa14 Nah, they are biased, everyone is, it's cool, they still do good stuff.

@Piterixos Рік тому

"unbiased" xDD This channel has had a massive anti Nvidia bias since I can remember.

@NetworkNinja84 Рік тому

Bravo. What a video plus I cant imagine hearing it in any other voice lmao. Love the details and information in it. Broke it down like a G!

@joshduffety-wong9618 Рік тому

It was really bugging me that other content creators weren't really mentioning how DLSS 3.0 works, as it's really quite misleading how the extra FPS comes to be. Thanks for the detailed video! Really interesting stuff.

@H4rd5tyl3 Рік тому

it has to do with availability, several have allready stated it would come in a separate vid, much like HU

@khaledm.1476 Рік тому

DLSS 3.0 which boosts framerate, but is only viable when you're already generating alot of frames but the 4090 doesn't support higher refresh rates like 4k240 because Nvidia is the only one who skimped out on dp 2.0 (even intel has it), and in lower refresh rates the 4090 is bottleknecked and already maxes out most games, while for esport player it increases latency. Tell me who's this feature for exactly?? P.S also breaks vsync currently and causes tearing when frame rates exceed refresh rate

@khaledm.1476 Рік тому

@Doranvel except 4090 doesn't support over 4k120 it doesn't even reach 144hz. And it's such a pointless restriction as well for a buyer of a 1600$ card. Like if intel can put display port 2.0 on its a380 msrp 140$ and probably it's a310 which might be sub 100, it's a really bad look when nvidia skimps on it

@omarcomming722 Рік тому

Who hasn't been mentioning it? I've not seen a single review not talk about it and explain it

@Demon09-_- Рік тому

@Doranvel problem I see with dlss 3 is like here its 119fps had input delay similar to a native 40fps and thats a pretty bad experience

@Captainball439 Рік тому

Love that Tim is paying attention to small and big knobs … and all those shafts !!! You sir are a legend!!!

@andystovell Рік тому

"While looking around the cockpit" no less

@Naqaj Рік тому

I'd love to know if that was a one-take, or if it took him a few tries to keep it straight.

@domm6812 Рік тому

I'm amazed how serious he made it sound.

@stickboy8219 Рік тому

Reported

@Captainball439 Рік тому

@@stickboy8219 whats reported ......

@dklingen Рік тому

Wow Tim that was an excellent and very clear explanation and investigation - thank you!

@thehristokolev Рік тому

This is the DLSS 3 video that we were all waiting for. Excellent work!

@HorribleNimbo Рік тому

Way better than digital foundry's one

@angrygreek1985 Рік тому

@@HorribleNimbo Shill foundry

@Fallen608 Рік тому

@@HorribleNimbo Big surprise the guys who get nonstop exclusive nvidia content never say a bad word about nvidia.

@joakimp2711 Рік тому

Yes. DLSS3.0 is not good atm.

@johnboylan3832 Рік тому

@@angrygreek1985 Shillital Foundry.

@russha5891 Рік тому

Nvidia will maybe send you a letter say how dare that you are not supporting their narrative, how could you do that, as an independent tester. :-) what a great bit of great information that I had no idea of from the advertising, this is why I love your videos, and always use it to determine my purchases.

@AdaaDK Рік тому

you missspelled it, its Ngreedia. now with magic shitty and softlooking extra frames.

@igorthelight Рік тому

Big companies don't do that ;-) They would just silently blacklist him and NOT send anything interesting anymore.

@Whatareyouareyou Рік тому

Seeing as he had to slow down everything a stupid amount with the only really noticeable thing at full speed being some ui elements I doubt it

@LucasBadur Рік тому

Fantastic review, thanks for clarifying all of this hubbub.

@kingplunger6033 Рік тому

This actually makes me more interested in RDNA 3, because the 4090 has solid generational uplift, so if Nvidia thinks they need to push this, the competition might be very close otherwise. Wait and see I guess.

@d9zirable Рік тому

might be another 1080 ti vs vega situation again

@bonevgm Рік тому

@@d9zirable I expect it to be more of a 30 series vs 6000 series, but with great RT support from AMD this time.

@AdActivator Рік тому

This might be true, but I think it is more likely that NVidia is trying to make the second hand market GPUs obsolete by pushing the next gen as far as they can. So they can continue selling new GPUs.

@Luca-bx4fx Рік тому

Very close? There is a reason Nvidia is prepering a 4090Ti, because the 4090 will be beaten, and not by a small margin.

@user-wq9mw2xz3j Рік тому

4090 is decent (but too expensive), 4080's both suck (plus way too expensive)

@HasanAslan Рік тому

So basically this is really a similar experience to using a modern tv with frame interpolation.

@Jonatan606 Рік тому

To a degree. DLSS 3 will do a better job because it has access to motion vectors.

@liuby33 Рік тому

@@Jonatan606 unless a direct side to side comparison is available, the improvement here is just speculation.

@valrond Рік тому

@@Jonatan606 But you don't get the artifacts in the UI like with DLSS 3.

@shanez1215 Рік тому

Not quite. Motion interpolation purely processes the image. If someone moves a hand when it blends the frames together it will look more like the hand is fading out of position 1 and fading into the other position. With DLSS 3, the GPU KNOWS it's the hand that's moving, so it calculates the midpoint between the two positions and puts the hand there. Then use the backgrounds of each image to draw the background behind it. Frame interpolation has often been called the "soap opera effect" because it makes everyone's skin look super soft. Especially if there's big contrasts to their skin like a guy with stubble for example.

@Jonatan606 Рік тому

@@liuby33 Digital Foundry already compared it with other interpolation methods. Spoiler: DLSS 3 does a much better job.

@doggiehowzer Рік тому

The frame generation artefacts in FS2020 with the way point is almost identical to what I see when I enable Asynchronous Space Warp (Quest 2's version of frame doubling/generation) in VR. I always turn it off

@xthetenth Рік тому

One thing I'm really interested in is whether it'd work well for combat flight sims. The scenario I want the most overall image quality in is playing IL-2, since I want perfect frame latency for VR, full settings on maximum draw distance to see things at as long a distance as possible and also image fidelity because snagging a glimpse of color on a plane's roundel on a single frame as it whips right past my head can be the difference between a great flight and humiliating defeat. I'd expect that sort of very rapid movement past the camera would result in messes that are more trouble than they're worth, but I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised since I'm running a really high framerate.

@tertius4914 Рік тому

My take from this is that DLSS 3 is similar to a high overdrive(or whatever the manufacturer calls it) mode on a monitor; It looks nice and fancy in the numbers, but the visual experience suffers to reach a better number for marketing. Yes I know the analogy doesn't hold weight once you get to around 120fps native, but at that point is there really any need to enable DLSS3 over DLSS2 or FSR2?

@Antidepressiva1980 Рік тому

The need is there for a small portion of users only which is sad but it is what it is i guess.

@TheEPICskwock Рік тому

Trying playing a game like cyberpunk with ray tracing and you do need DLSS even with 4090.

@mannypaul7369 Рік тому

Agreed. Personally I play on a 75 inch TV so DLSS even when working I generally don’t enjoy visually since I notice it doesn’t look as good as native. If I can already get 1440p - 4K at 120FPS I see no need for it really. If I ever get a 360hz monitor one day then sure, but I’m not a competitive player anyways so I doubt I’d ever need it. Still, I love the idea of the technology and hope to continue see it evolve.

@nehcooahnait7827 Рік тому

@@TheEPICskwock 😕 I guess I will wait till I can play CP2077 with RTX 10090ti.

@biquiba Рік тому

About the use cases: a 2070 owner already bypassed the DLSS 3 restriction getting double the framerate but at a unstable framepacing in Cyberpunk w/ RT. So, there's benefits for a high end 30 series cards running a game already at a high fps with ultra high end monitors.

@loekhabets8698 Рік тому

9:33 "We're inside the cockpit of an aircraft here, we'll also find details: Smaller knobs, bigger knobs, and even some large shafts to look at." Nice one, Tim xD

@claudest-gelais8456 Рік тому

😂😂😂

@slimal1 Рік тому

I only caught it the second time around

@Aeveril Рік тому

Wow! Great analysis and ultra-useful! Thx a lot!!

@Adrian-is6qn Рік тому

Excellent video! This is not something easy for everyday joe to understand and see but it was really well done in my opinion. Great job :)

@p4radigm989 Рік тому

Thanks Tim. Great research done. I learned a bunch about DLSS and ai image generation.

@farzam0192 Рік тому

this was one of the best reviews i've ever seen, well done!

@BriBCG 11 місяців тому

I'm seeing this 'feature' trick a lot of people who don't understand much beyond FPS numbers. Now with the launch of the 4060ti being no better than the 3060ti without frame generation it's become even more obvious how much Nvidia is leaning on this feature. My favorite thing to say is 'why not just enable your TV's motion smoothing instead' since they're functionally not that different.

@raymonkee Рік тому

Stellar work from Tim, clearing the fog for the masses and validating objectively everything we enthusiasts target for in performance PC gaming.

@madjackgamingandfitness498 Рік тому

I was noticing this on some of the first demonstrations. Reviewers have been saying it’s only a little when to me it looked like a lot was going off in the distance. We’re just trying to hit frame numbers while ignoring quality with the image it’s like coming full circle with low frames with good quality imaging that gets chopped up.

@PrefoX Рік тому

well look at dlss 1 and what we got now, 2.4.9 is mostly better than native. give frame generation a bit time. and you have to get it into the market at some point for future generations, like with RT. RT is going the last keystone for real gfx

@anuzahyder7185 Рік тому

@@PrefoX no it’s not better than native. The game’s taa implementation has to be really poor for dlss to look better. N DF is going to hide these things as they are nvidia shills.

@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Рік тому

@@PrefoX at 1080p/1440p,its better than native but at 4k its slightly worse and at 8k its garbage compared to native. Dlss 3.0 looks like dlss 2.0 perf mode at quality its bad visually at all those resolutions

@alexatkin Рік тому

@@anuzahyder7185 There have absolutely been games where its better than native as its able to infer finer details that were lost in native, such as making small lines complete, reducing aliasing. Its a better solution than TAA in those cases.

@anuzahyder7185 Рік тому

@@alexatkin yes resolving those fine details doesnt make it better overall. There are other things to consider as well

@Vinyl-Movement Рік тому

Thank you for this analysis. Extremely helpful.

@0mnis14sh Рік тому

As a latency nut this is crucial information. Really great work

@FrankyJr Рік тому

Agreed! great video

@trulaila8560 Рік тому

Imagine calling yourself a latency nut...

@zefrog7482 Рік тому

Yeah, doesn't appeal to me either. It will likely get fixed, but by then it will probably have been hacked to work with the rtx30XX series anyway.😂

@pieterrossouw8596 Рік тому

Frame generation should be implemented by game engines because they are aware of the user's input, in-game events etc. and can strategically generate frames when conditions are ideal. Nvidia should have exposed accelerated frame-blending APIs for developers. Slapping it on at the end of the rendering pipeline just creates nice performance graphs for marketing purposes. It's a bit like fitting a muffler tip at the end of a small engine so it makes a louder noise.

@m_sedziwoj Рік тому

If Nvidia would give game dev they API, devs should ignore it, and use something open source, because this is not some kind of magic, because many TVs have this. And devs should think twice before getting any black box from Nvidia, or they ends as EVGA, they get it for free know, because there is AMD, but if not... they will have to paid for it, and when you become dependent on someone technology... oh Adobe :D

@mechano6505 Рік тому

Close sourced narrow usecase even if it was better wouldn't make sense with DLSS 2.0 being a thing unless NVIDIA pays these developers. That's a lot of work for developers to put in for a very small group who have the latest gen GPUs but want frame interpolation that has worse latency.

@SuperCapuka Рік тому

Thanks Tim for another great job covering DLSS, it's good when someone brings down to earth features that are sold as premium.

@surryp5076 Рік тому

Great Analysis. Love your work!

@gwynnblade9160 Рік тому

"...Even a few large shafts" Made me cackle in laughter, well played mate!

@zaksax3936 Рік тому

Great video explaining how the extra DLSS3 fps is not going to improve imput latency. I was surprised about how much of a negative effect it has on latency. 👍

@user-hz4le7sq5r Рік тому

Which means I don't need it 🤣

@guyfawkes8873 Рік тому

Yea this was always a big asterisk with the technology. sure stuff will be smoother but... what if you wiggle your mouse fast?

@DimitriMoreira Рік тому

Not only that but the image generated is even worse.

@isaiya6799 Рік тому

Still better than native, wth are these reviewers complaining about when its better than native???

@mitlanderson Рік тому

@@isaiya6799 the AI frames *_are not better than native_* . There's plenty examples of that in this video alone.

@Skylancer727 Рік тому

It's such a weird technology as it's made to make a game run at higher frame rates than normal, but it doesn't work well when the GPU doesn't naturally output that many frames. It really seems its main goal is dealing with CPU bottlenecks but I also heard CPU bottlenecks also limit the bonus of it. It's really confusing. It basically like it was only designed with the idea of using a 4090 with the highest end CPUs. It's so odd. I was honestly expecting it to be a lot better for lower end cards. It's also kinda unfortunate as being that it brings games over 120fps at 4K, it means that it will almost always hit latency by being over the monitor's max refresh rate. It's incredibly rare to find higher than 144hz 4K monitors and the new GPUs still only have displayport 1.4. That means going higher is still unlikely.

@emily_embers Рік тому

It is very strange. I think flight sim and civ are like the only games I could see myself using it on.

@masteroak9724 Рік тому

That's my impression as well. Just like RT back on RTX 2xxx series was pretty much useless on the low end cards, this will also be another something people at the lower end (4060 and bellow) will pay premium without being able to use.

@qwertyui5086 Рік тому

Designed to sell at higher prices than it's actually worth.

@jannegrey593 Рік тому

@@masteroak9724 Responding to all 3 comments. To be fair on 3050 and 3060 RT (except minimal RT settings) is still hard to use (DLSS 2 is fine thankfully). 40 series might be the first generation where it will be useful on lower end with decent RT settings, but not with DLSS 3. Also CPU bottlenecks that DLSS 3 is supposed to override are also causes of additional increased latency often, so it might hurt even more when CPU bound (though you'd have to be very CPU bound for that). As for Flight Sim and Civ - it would depend on how annoying the flickering of UI is. Since honestly in Civ you don't need that high FPS to play the game.

@Your_Paramour Рік тому

I'm not sure why you think it is weird, it's plainly obvious that the results of interpolation will be better the lower the interpolation window so it's naturally geared to boosting high frame rates. Most games already feel awful to play at 60 fps, so holding an additional frame in order to perform the interpolation is always going to feel bad. Probably a significant amount of non esports orientated titles can't be run over 150-200 fps whether it be via cpu bottlenecks or other engine limitations, so being able to double that to 300-400 fps for the next generation of high refresh rate monitors is a welcome addition imo, assuming the major kinks like ui elements and scene transitions causing problems get resolved.

@yurisuika Рік тому

Speaking of flight sims, this artefacting reminds me of the Motion Smoothing on Steam VR. In IL-2 it is noticeable on leading edges when near the ground and on UI elements.

@ACzechManGoingHisOwnWay Рік тому

Could you try and make a capture video of only the fake frames (drop the regular ones)? That would nicely reveal what the technology does.

@stephyhasnotificationsoff4325 Рік тому

I'm not surprised someone with that username in on this video. LMAO I'd go my own way if I was Czech too, don't worry.

@MoonMage67 Рік тому

great content as usual. thanks for the deep dive on DLSS 3!

@gamingmarcus Рік тому

It's also important to note that DLSS 3.0 artifacts will be much more visible with the emergence of OLED displays in the next 1-2 years. With an almost instant pixel response time you lack the natural blurring effect of an LCD display that would additionally help to hide those artifacts. I'd be curious if you could just give us a subjective view of how DLSS 3.0 compares on OLED vs LCD screens in your opinion.

@NadeemAhmed-nv2br Рік тому

LG is releasing there in a few months 27-32 inch 1440p 240hz oled monitors. they are slated to start production in late octorber early nov and will be shown off at ces 2023 so almost 1st week of 2023, atleast according to the leaks

@dragonsga Рік тому

Great Video, helped me a lot to understand the pros and cons of DLSS3

@syeddanishanwer Рік тому

Brilliant analysis. You have yourself a subscriber. It's good to view videos of experts who aren't paid or blind regarding performance and quality issues.

@thecooljohn100 Рік тому

This is the best DLSS 3 analysis I've seen so far! Thank you for all the hard work

@kiwimonster3647 Рік тому

It would certainly be nice to have a setting, how many real frames are rendered per "fake" frame, so that the visual & latency compromise can be adjusted to personal liking

@Rogerkonijntje Рік тому

great point!

@frequentfrenzied Рік тому

In terms of latency, the way it works now is the best case scenario. If you were able to configure it to generate a fake frame for every 3rd frame instead of every other frame then you would need to start triple buffering frames which would actually increase the latency between when a frame is generated and when it is displayed even further. Frame interpolation is a marketing gimmick that has no place in real high end hardware.

@bingchilling177 Рік тому

Let me *TRY* imagine this with my undervolted brain. If native fps is 120 fps and after turning on dlss 3 fps goes to 200fps then there are 90 *fake* frames, which means 1 fake frame between 1.33 real frame. I'm just imagining this so could be wrong.

@kiwimonster3647 Рік тому

@@bingchilling1771 "fake" Frame inserted into two "real" frames iirc

@robertvanzant2653 Рік тому

Excellent video thanks for the hard work and information!

@nolanblew Рік тому

Question: how does frame generation affect VR frames? I got a 4090 for a flight simulator, but already notice that DLSS2 can sometimes render different artifacts on each eye, messing up the illusion of looking at the object. Curious to know how DLSS3 will be implemented and if it will cause more issues in VR. You're all very happy with the performance bump with my 4090 though. Was getting 9 to 13 FPS on my 2070 super versus about 50 FPS on ultra settings on the 4090, both with TAA

@Tom_Quixote 7 місяців тому

At that price point, just get a real airplane instead.

@nolanblew 7 місяців тому

@@Tom_Quixote Oh I wish. 10 years ago maybe, but 737s are a bit pricier these days

@viktortheslickster5824 Рік тому

Great review though in your excellent latency analysis graphs I would have liked to see more cases of reflex off. 'Reflex On' does reduce latency by nearly 40% which is significant. I know you were trying to isolate the effect of frame generation, but in my view there should be more comparisons between DLSS frame generation and settings where reflex is off. Because that is what gamers have been used to until now, and it is arguably new tech added in conjunction with DLSS 3. More DLSS 3 supported games means more games with reflex, which is a win for gamers even if they don't choose to enable frame generation.

@TickTock725 Рік тому

Nvidia forces reflex on when dlss 3 is turned on. There might be a way to turn it off but I don’t think it’s a thing yet.

@FSAPOJake Рік тому

Here's the way I look at DLSS 3. It's a really cool piece of technology and a great proof of concept. But the entire point of getting higher framerates is to get lower latency and make the game feel more responsive. Turning on DLSS 3's frame generation either doesn't improve the latency at all or it makes it significantly worse. Meaning all you're getting with it on is higher framerate numbers to make your (and Nvidia's) benchmarks look better, while getting artifacts you weren't getting with DLSS 2 / 3 without frame generation. If you're not getting less input latency with the higher framerates from DLSS 3, then what's the point? It's a gimmick.

@alexatkin Рік тому

That's not the entire point though, higher frame rates "feel" more true to life, they are more immersive even in slower paced games and make the image less blurry. I had this very problem with Forza Horizon where at 60fps it looked more photo realistic but felt more fake due to the frame rate, but at 120fps it felt more realistic but looked worse due to having to reduce settings. I've spent hours in games like that just driving around enjoying the scenery, unlocking the roads, where the input latency being worse but the experience more pleasant is a night/day difference to me. Sure, a 4090 is already going to run that game at 4K 120fps fine, but this is about future games where they are pushing the graphics even harder, which is why NVIDIA used the example of Cyberpunk fully path traced. There are plenty of games where the frame rate looking better is more benefit than latency, just because you don't care about them doesn't make it a gimmick.

@PursuedByAMemory Рік тому

@@alexatkin Like the video said, using frame gen at low frame rates is going to increase the latency even more. If Cyberpunk path traced runs at 30-40fps on a 4080 12gb then turning on frame gen would increase the latency to unplayable territory, then there is also the question about how frame gen performs on slower GPUs, what if it takes even longer to generate frames? You really don't want to play a 1st person perspective game at 100ms+. It is a bit of a gimmick. Maybe DLSS 4 will be better.

@gamesapp22 Рік тому

Top quality video by Tim, thanks 👍. Also what kind of 240hz monitor not have adaptive sync?

@jai2628 Рік тому

Hey Hardware Unboxed, fantastic video as always! I just wanted to add an idea into the mix. In the beginning of the video you talked about how showing high FPS scenarios with DLSS 3 is difficult with UKposts's 60 FPS limitations. I was wondering if you could potentially provide a download of the footage or even just this whole video as a demonstration of what this new technology looks like. That would be really cool to see!

@Quizack Рік тому

They do have a Floatplane, so it’s possible they provide it there if you sign up to support them. If not, I’m sure they’d be open to it

@jai2628 Рік тому

@@Quizack That is true. Maybe this is too much to ask, but as much as I personally would be open to subscribing as I would really like to see DLSS 3 with my own eyes before I purchase an NVIDIA card, I think the PC Building community would really appreciate some footage (maybe not as much as their floatplane members) as a sort of "see for yourself" approach to a buyer's guide. Even with just a couple scenes with some varying framerates would go a long way in helping regular consumers understand what they are actually buying.

@Quizack Рік тому

@@jai2628 Yeah I get ya. It would be nice to see. It’s hard to tell with UKposts’s compression.

@AMD718 Рік тому

This is exactly why I always say "wait for the reviews". Excellent work from HUB as usual.

@bryzeer5075 Рік тому

And the reviews all say at least 2x without DLSS and 4x with DLSS and RT vs. The 3090ti and runs much cooler and uses about the same power

@campersruincod6134 Рік тому

@@bryzeer5075 shill.

@AMD718 Рік тому

@@bryzeer5075 I'm talking about DLSS3. What this review shows is that for the most part it should be ignored in your purchasing decision. Sites like PC Gamer who aren't able to look at it objectively were calling it black magic and dark wizardry. F that. It's an extremely niche feature based upon hiding lesser quality frames among normal quality frames.

@bryzeer5075 Рік тому

@@campersruincod6134 Can't handle facts or what?

@mimu9599 Рік тому

Aha.... and then buy an AMD Card, right?? 🤣

@Hairmess1 Рік тому

Thank you for the in-depth review. I own RTX 4070 and so far i am very happy with it. I have to say that DLSS3 looks and feels like smoothing gradation on LG Smart TVs. Somehow my OLED LG TV is doing a batter job at it than RTX 40 series. I get the double the frame-rate with almost no artifacts at the expense of latency of course.

@sergeitachenov812 Рік тому

Well, watching this at 30 Hz was surely a fun experience! Still a lot of amazingly useful info, thanks.

@weirdconnor Рік тому

really appreciated this breakdown and analysis, especially regarding latency. thanks for the time you put into making this!

@CanIHasThisName Рік тому

Great analysis, especially since you specifically point out things which aren't really noticeable while just watching a compressed youtube video.

@DannyNilsson Рік тому

Best unboxed video ever. really good explanation as i was really sceptic of this technology, but on paper it looked good all over the line. and could match it with TV motion smoothness. But it make sense it first shines at high fps and single player games

@mikebutler9332 Рік тому

Great break down as always Tim. I think the other issue with DLSS 3.0 working better for high frame rates is simply the amount of interpolation that has to occur. The higher the native frame rate the less information change that's occurred in between frames. So not only are these interpolated frames on the screen for shorter intervals, the artifacting in them should also be reduced as the model has to infer less information to fill in the gaps. It's a substantial challenge to get this kind of technology to work well for lower frame rates, where you'd want it the most.

@xSato Рік тому

Amazing In-Depth analysis as always, results are as most people expected tbh, hopefully frame generation is gonna be a much more useful technology in the future for lower end cards.

@pkpnyt4711 Рік тому

Frame generation would be useless for first person shooters or quick twitch games as the latency can be felt as mentioned by optimum tech. If you only play slow games then it's okay.

@victorn1291 Рік тому

One thing to note, you have an option in some games to use DLSS3+ DLAA and no DLSS2. So frame gen without the ai upscaling. This runs the game at native resolution and should therefore look better than an upscaled DLSS2 image

@damnsonalabanca420 Рік тому

13:32 Any standard interpolation softaware has options to either skip frame druing scene change or blend (like in video) so option should be there in nvidia as well

@elemnt360z Рік тому

You and gamers nexus are doing wonders for PC journalism. Thank you

@nuttyjawa Рік тому

absolutely enjoying this detailed look at DLSS in the real world, thanks!

@dascandy Рік тому

"Frame generation" seems to be taking the MPEG motion predictors (used for video encoding) and using them to predict where blocks move, and then just showing that "next frame" as if it was good enough to display.

@teletesselator Рік тому

Excellent video, Thanks guys!! You asked for our input? DLSS 3.0 is mostly a gimmick IMO and the conspiracy theorist in me believes it was conjured up solely as a vehicle of misinformation - as a graphic artist I would even go so far as to call their graphs fraudulent! The 4090 and 4080/16 are okay-ish cards as a next generation over the 3000 series but the prices are inspired by greed and blatant disregard for their customers. Additionally, the idea that we have gone from 240W max in the 2080Ti to 480W or so in the 4090 while just barely (and in some cases not) doubling performance and frame rates speaks volumes to me. Volumes of shame that is... If the 4090 were _between_ $800 and $900 with the _real_ 4080 being $100 to $150 less I would be singing NVidia's praises. As it is however, I think I will be looking much harder at whatever AMD/ATI brings to the table!

@campersruincod6134 Рік тому

Agreed

@MoonScythe1 Рік тому

I was thinking the same. Based on the information provided, it's basically a fancier version of LG's TV true motion, clear motion or whatever other TVs use to display artificial high frame rate when watching movies. It even does the same thing with adding high input lag and even some artifacts. Which is why those TVs have "game mode", which basically turns off that tech and other post processing effects to achieve lower input latency when playing a game.

@thenilusss4911 Рік тому

So from programmers perspective input lag results from bad code base. Every game that has input lag from dlss 3 or other technologies have a game loop that waits for completing rendering to receive new input. Some games are developed in a more modern way to receive input while rendering. Modern gameengines should not suffer from input lags (modern game != modern engine).

@harryhelliar1474 Рік тому

4080 is more efficient than any 3000 card

@MoonScythe1 Рік тому

@@harryhelliar1474 It is, but not $1200+ more efficient.

@RandomlyDrumming Рік тому

I applaud to the professionalism of HU! In my opinion, you guys are, by far, the most level-headed and objective hardware reviewers on YT. You consistently offer detailed, yet easy to understand explanations and you are refusing to fall for the hype. This is why HU is my absolute first choice and most trusted source for hardware reviews .👍👍🍻

@ofon2000 Рік тому

Gamer's Nexus is pretty good too

@RandomlyDrumming Рік тому

@@ofon2000 Yes, they are, too, without a doubt. However, HU tends to provide simpler, yet as detailed explanations of discussed topics.

@pokealong Рік тому

The video isn't bad. But I'll take Gamers Nexus or Digital Foundry any day.

@RandomlyDrumming Рік тому

@@pokealong GN is also great, as I said. But DF....While they are excellent in providing technical details, they're on Nvidia's payroll, usually shilling and overselling Nvidia's tech.

@pokealong Рік тому

@@RandomlyDrumming They literally have a video very similar to this one ripping DLSS 3 to shreds. They list point by point what's wrong with it with countless examples of where it's flawed and how vsync hurts it. They're no more in Nvidia's payroll than Gamer's Nexus is for having an entire video praising the cooling of the 4090 WITH NVIDIA. Maybe you all missed every GPU video they've done in the last 3-4 years where they praise AMDs value.

@sascenturion Рік тому

What an awesome video !.. What work you've put into the research and well explained Well done and thanks! 👍😀

@thescottishcyclist4640 Рік тому

Fantastic High quality video. You really highlighted all the flaws with DLSS 3.0 but I guess we can't have it all. I'll take your recommendations of performance RT with Frame gen for a more balanced responsive experience.

@SliceofKris Рік тому

Glad you made this video I had these exact same thoughts, you also forgot that it uses dp1.4 instead of dp 2.0 so cannot even show 240hz frames with 4k without chroma subsampling.

@con4609 Рік тому

I wonder if DLSS 3.0 could be implemented with a frame cap so it's only interpolates inbetween late frames so you only lose image quality when youd experience a frame drop. So you can effectively get much better minimum frame times at the expense of latency. Especially if you have a cpu bottleneck

@ufukpolat3480 Рік тому

I'm certain Nvidia only truly cares about a fat fps figure it can slap on their newest flagship $1.6K GPU. Marketing "our newest generation can generate some frames here and there" to keep a solid fps isn't as sexy as saying our new alien tech creates 300% framerate magically out of thin air. So, in essence you won't see Nvidia helping out the gamers struggling with low framerates, if that was the case, they wouldn't have forced RT down the throats of gamers when clearly it was designed to create an artificial edge over their competition while allowing some additional compute headroom in serverspace applications. In reality something like UE's Lumen is much more beneficial to gamers.

@CanIHasThisName Рік тому

@@ufukpolat3480 That is an incredibly weird take. Nvidia definitely cares about latency, there's nothing suggesting they don't. And they're not "forcing RT down the throats of gamers", they introduced RT and are pushing for devs to implement this entirely optional feature. In the few games where RT is implemented right, it looks phenomenal.

@jcdenton4911 Рік тому

With DLSS 3 I can just "sense" that when objects are passing in front of each other that things just aren't right at the edges and I don't like it. It just feels off to me all the time. I don't like it and I don't like how it's being pushed. The added latency kills it for me too.

@hitman480channel8 Рік тому

to me, it feels like a better version of the smoothing feature tvs have for years now. where it introduces a generated frame in between and sometimes produces artifacts. I used to use that on console when I played turn-based rpg to have a 60 fps feel because it does add latency

@paulcox2447 Рік тому

@@hitman480channel8 I use it sometimes with RPGs especially the ones with third person cameras where you effectively spin the whole world around every time you're trying to turn

@jcdenton868 Рік тому

For a moment I thought did I write this comment :D But yea I agree with you. Its obvious marketing gimmick to force high framerates. I dont see whats the point of high framerates if that is not going to decrease latency. Most important point of high framerates is more responsive control.

@splashmaker2 Рік тому

@@jcdenton868 I disagree on this last point. Displays require more frames to increase clarity when things move. If you remember there used to be a big push for gray to gray switching speed. Now this is very fast in gaming displays and oleds. The problem is that instant switching is frames still looks choppy, unless you have more frames. So fps starts to become more important than resolution, unless your game does not usually involve motion somehow.

@jcdenton868 Рік тому

@@splashmaker2 Yeah sure! What im saying is I would prefer to get more frames "naturally" without latency inducing effects like DLSS3.

@dbzssj4678 Рік тому

Here's what I think, motion on screen is a trick of fast frames moving, and while adding a generated frame between tricks your brain into interpreting a 'smoother" motion, I don't think that's it's a valid FPS benchmark to include because it isn't indicative of rasterization performance. However, It's a neat technology, but it probably shouldn't be used under an certain FPS threshold because it makes artifacts more visible. It reminds me of those TVs that would smooth the 24/29/30 fps video to 60fps, but at 4k it was easy to spot artifacts and blurs and to me, made it unwatchable. Where this tech excels is at frame rates past that the human brain already comprehends as motion but it doesn't add any perceivable difference to the gamer, only the benchmark.

@ioanalexandrutica1152 Рік тому

Exactly this. It's just motion interpolation, not real rendered frames.

@alexatkin Рік тому

Fair point, but what you have to realise is that the artefacts are less visible than TV interpolation because a lot of the places that falls down the motion vectors are able to fix it. Many years ago there I used to game with TV interpolation on because I hit on a TV that just seemed to do an insanely good job and the TV was so sluggish I didn't notice the lag difference. Granted I wouldn't do that now as I found I enjoyed a lot more games now I have a TV with decent latency and the difference is HUGE with interpolation on, but I will absolutely use DLSS 3.0 interpolation if it means I can have better graphics on modern titles with a native frame rate between 40-60fps interpolated to 80-120.

@scorpi_gan Рік тому

Nice video. What would be cool is if they opened up DLSS 3.0 frame generation to a user adjustable options menu that allowed you to tweak how it functions.

@MrGregAndo Рік тому

Great coverage, but I would have really liked to see power usage differences power can frame displayed.

@Darrylx444 Рік тому

DLSS 3 on a monitor appears analogous to Motion Smoothing (aka Motion Compensation, or ASW) on an HMD in VR. It extrapolates extra frames in order to increase perceived FPS without much CPU/GPU loading cost. But in VR the artifacts are much more noticeable for most people, and therefore I leave it turned off usually.

@electronus97 Рік тому

Yeah its fairly sickening there, smears everything in my experience, better to just get the raw frames.

@TheIronArmenianakaGIHaigs Рік тому

All I know is when I use DLSS in war thunder and escape from tarkov I get ghosting on things that are moving on the screen such as a gun barrel or gun. It makes the games look absolutely hideous to play so I always have it turned off. I game at 1440p.

@2020spaced Рік тому

This was an excellent review of DLSS 3. Tim explained the reality and facts about adopting this early technology. He provided his opinion and concerns about what Nvidia hasn't made clear, which is fantastic, and will help people avoid the pitfalls of using this technology incorrectly given their needs and expectations. Of course it is early days and we will have to see how developments improve this technology - I for one am excited about it and still feel very positive about DLSS 3 after this review. People can just mindlessly believe all the Nvidia marketing hype, but I'd rather know what is realistic and useful, so I can adjust my expectations and get the best out of what is currently working well, while keeping an eye out for fixes/updates that improve its limitations. Thanks Tim, informative and insightful as always!

@jmhgaming7155 Рік тому

What an amazing video. Just wanted to say thanks for all your hard work and effort into videos like these. Really appreciate this channel.

@Zeus-gd2ne Рік тому

Imagine all these Tests are without Frame Generation or aka DLSS3.0 with the power of DLSS3.0 quality mode you could get at least 120 fps on every game 4k max settings and picture are crispier and artifacts are not visible to human eyes ,damn RTX4090 is a beast ,True you cant use Frame Generation on competitive games in regard to latency but you don't even need that ,even without FG you could get at least 360fps over competitive games with Nvidia reflex you get lowest latency. lol

@AbhorrentRed Рік тому

LOL Imagine donating to a yout*ber

@8oxcast295 Рік тому

@@AbhorrentRed so what?

@barteqt Рік тому

@@AbhorrentRed whats so wrong with that? everyone needs to make money and hes supporting somebody so whats so wrong with that?

@_zombiezone Рік тому

@@AbhorrentRed did u just censor youtuber?

@Verpal Рік тому

The biggest deal breaker for me isn't the image quality problem of DLSS 3, nor is the latency problem, but the fact if you force vsync in DLSS3 latency become completely unplayable, no vsync and you get tearing, only in one scenario where your DLSS 3 result is within VRR range of your monitor then you might get a better experience.

@MatejKorosec1 Рік тому

Do u have this issue with g sync monitor ?

@Simon-tr9hv Рік тому

Nobody use vsync, it's 2022, you either use freesync or vsync, at least there are fast sync available so vsync is literally the worset option

@Keivz Рік тому

yeah, that's what dldsr is for. gotta find that sweet spot though. but agreed, latency is a non-issue. Most people don't even enable reflex. and the artifacts he was pointing out I couldn't see nearly any of them. gonna try it out myself later today

@Abu_Shawarib Рік тому

If it isn't in the VRR range then your frame rate is too low to benefit from the feature anyway.

@eniff2925 Рік тому

@@Simon-tr9hv You need to use v-sync to eleminate tearing with a variable refresh rate display.

@shanilsam Рік тому

Incredible work , Tim! Great to see such detail and nuance in this age of the hype machine.

@lordmann712 7 місяців тому

Superb analysis.

@remytv Рік тому

Reminds me of those 120hz TVs that were so popular over 10 years ago with frame interpolation tricks.

@robw3610 Рік тому

Wanted to comment on the UI element thing... While there can be some slight variances on the exact method games use to do this, each UI element is 3D geometry... Generally two triangles with a texture on it that is typically dynamically generated each frame. With text, the game dev can either bake the text directly into the texture, or make each letter a "3d object" and layer it on top of the background UI elements. I've used both approaches back in my indie game dev days. Because of this, I'd imagine it'd be extremely difficult for the AI to differentiate between UI elements and the rest of the frame, and handle them differently to eachother

@m_sedziwoj Рік тому

So what is difference between this box which is same place of frame, and car which is same place of frame (as in CP2077)? Because it looks like they train this algorithm on texture data and not on fain detal data, and this is why it have so many artefacts on this elements. Something as using JPEG for UI and not using PNG. JPEG is better quality/size for photos, but is bad for gui type elements.

@termitreter6545 Рік тому

I feel like it really depends on the rendering method. Btw, there is no AI running tho. its just interpolation.

@m_sedziwoj Рік тому

@@termitreter6545 so they do something really wrong, because when on screen eg in Flight Simulator you have this bubble with distance, if don't change place and it corrupt it most, and not side of it, but text in it. BTW AI is part of ML and for algorithm to name as ML you need only one number to change to fit model. Even we looking at NN it is enough to have perceptron, one neuron to name it NN (maybe 2 neurons but...), and perception is use by eg AMD in CPU in branch predict so is so fast, but it adapt so it is AI lol BTW2 most would think that if someone is talking about AI we are talking about DL = deep learning, which are deep neural networks (more then 1 hidden layer)

@termitreter6545 Рік тому

@@m_sedziwoj Idk, maybe its a bug, who knows. As for AI. Thing with neural networks is, they are made at nvidia with an "AI", but at home you just get the output of the NN at your PC. Youre not actually making one, your GPU is just applying the result. Tbf its a pointless detail, but it just bugs me sometimes.

@m_sedziwoj Рік тому

@@termitreter6545 I making NN in home, but not this one used by Nvidia ;) So training is hard, using is relatively easy. Maybe so many people make this mistake, because everyone is comparing NN to human brain, but they works completely in different way. It is more as air plane is inspired by birds, but we know how much they are working similarly ;)

@jamescampbell8482 Рік тому

What makes me so sad about this implementation of framerate amplification is that Nvidia did not apply any of the things they already know full well to be useful from virtual reality research. ASW 2.0 used in Oculus and steamvr can interpolate double the frames, making 45 FPS feel like 90 FPS. It doesn't have near the same visual drawbacks because the VR headset is fed data directly from the game engine, and latency is considered and reduced at every point in the pipeline. Nvidia using an optical flow generator basically means that we have the same technology that exists inside of your television set and gives you the soap opera effect, but a version of that that is an order of magnitude improved. It Just sucks knowing that this could be better, because VR has been doing a better job with frame amplification since 2014. I don't know why they can't feed engine data in. If the optical flow generator was aware of where the camera is, and was fed data about areas with occlusion issues, half of the artifacts in these videos wouldn't even exist. It's a little insane.

@decadent. Рік тому

Very good points. - For UI elements the game engine could specify areas to ignore to eliminate the UI issue entirely. - I totally agree with you . Nvidia should have simply accelerated the AWS 2.0 approach and that would have improved VR also while giving a better result for flat screen games.