Hierarchy and Succession of Westeros Explained

День тому

A lot of fans get confused on how the Hierarchy and Succession of Westeros actually works, so today I take the time to explain them in full. If you do learn something and find yourself enjoying the video then be sure to like and subscribe.
00:00 Intro
00:24 Hierarchy
03:20 Succession
#asoiaf #gameofthrones #houseofthedragon #georgerrmartin

КОМЕНТАРІ: 43

@Chernobyl_Reactor4 22 дні тому

It seems like they have it all figured out. I am sure this society doesn’t have any fighting since they have it all worked out.

@HouseofLore27 22 дні тому

Definitely, the most peaceful land ever where every lord agrees with each other and they get along just fine

@truetory6231 17 днів тому

I’m sorry I have to say it but some more explanation was needed when it comes to talking hierarchies and succession in the Seven Kingdoms. When it comes to hierarchies all lords are considered nobility but the nobility is divided into different ranks. First there are the Great Houses which answer directly to the Crown and rule over one of the kingdoms. THEN there are the vassal houses which are also lords but they are sworn to the great house of their region. Also wealthier vassal houses such as the Hightowers, Manderlys and Velaryons are actually higher on the hierarchy than poorer vassal houses like the Momonts or Umbers. After the vassal lords are landed knights which hold land for their lords such as the House Clegane or House Seaworth. Landed knights are above other kinds of knights such as household knights or hedge knights such as Ser Duncan the Tall. As it regards to succession, there are actually three different succession rules. As explained, Dorne uses equal primogeniture so I won’t go over it again. Cognatic primogeniture is used as the succession rule for lordships in the other kingdoms where sons (and their children) come before daughters (and their children). What was not stated however is when it comes to the Iron Throne, succession is actually based on agnatic primogeniture in that all males of the royal family are placed ahead of females and only when House Targaryen has no male-line descendants left could anyone claim the throne through descent from the female line, this was what the Great Council of 101 AC had decided when it chose Viserys over Rhaenys and was Viserys violation of this rule that led to the Dance of Dragons. Ordinarily the succession rules would place Viserys sons with Alicent at the head of the line followed by Rhaenyra’s 2 sons with Daemon. In contrast Rhaenyra’s 3 sons with Laenor (or Harwin, since we're being honest here) would be placed at back of the succession line behind their younger half-brothers because of this same rule.

@HouseofLore27 17 днів тому

Thought I’d add to what you said, the hierarchy obviously has more sub divisions which I didn’t explicitly say but did cover, by placing high lords above the minor nobility, which were lesser lords then landed knights. Also with the succession laws bit, I contemplated talking about the Iron Throne succession but there’s no actual evidence in the books that it is definite, yes the fact that no Queen has ruled and that they have been skipped over might point you towards that but that’s more of a social isssue, with attitudes towards women in world, not with the succession laws. If you can find and tell me if it does explicitly says so then by all means, I’ll be happy to be corrected. This video is a simplified version of the Hierarchy and Succession laws, but it still covers everything, except the small minor details, but thanks for your comment nonetheless.

@truetory6231 17 днів тому

@@HouseofLore27 I welcome the opportunity of being open to explore this matter of succession and also I am happy to confirm that can indeed find such a source which comes from the Wiki of Ice and Fire (I know opinions differ on its use but I learnt a lot of lore from it and you did say to find a source). So based on what I found, I’ll post a direct quote from the page and also will post the link for you to see the rest of it. The source says as follows: “The agnatic principle laid down in the Great Council of 101 AC was slightly modified after the Dance of the Dragons. Thereafter, women came after all men in the Targaryen succession, i.e., women could only succeed if the entire male line of House Targaryen became extinct.” The source has much more to say on the subject of succession to the Iron Throne where the place of females in succession has been debated but ultimately that was the conclusion it came to: awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Iron_Throne#Succession

@HouseofLore27 17 днів тому

@@truetory6231 I read this on the wiki aswell whilst doing research for the video, and the reason I left it out entirely lies in what’s said in the middle of the quote you pulled, the fact it’s a semi canon source. At the moment, there is no 100% definitive answer so I’d rather leave it out of the video than potentially misleading a viewer. There really just isn’t enough information on the topic, and for a fairly simple overview of succession, it serves its purpose well

@tiringsarcasm 17 днів тому

⁠@@truetory6231I was actually under impression that the Great Council didn’t decide anything when picking Viserys, perhaps I’m misremembering here but Jaehaerys was very careful with his word phrasing during the great council. The lords’ job during the Great Council was specifically to *advise* the king on choosing his successor, not to pick it. Jaehaerys made it clear that it was his choice to pick not them, and they couldn’t say anything against it because well *dragons.* Rival claims of The Dance of Dragons hinged on the conflict between those 2 things that Jaehaerys established, whether a king’s right to choose his successor superseded the laws of agnostic primogeniture.

@saskiaviking9447 17 днів тому

@HouseofLore27 for Targaryens prefering male-only succession, you have the example of Viserys II who became king after his nephew Baelor died despite his niece Daena (Baelor's sister) still being alive and well. Aegon III was also legally Aegon II's heir not because he was Rhaenyra's son but because he was Daemon's, since all of Aegon II's sons died, despite his daughter Jaehaera still being alive. Daughters are last ditch heirs when all Targaryen men died or were dispossessed. Which is how Robert's claim to the throne can be justified (since his grandma was a Targaryen, and all of Aerys's descendants were killed/exiled). This is also why Tommen's heir is Myrcella and not the dispossessed Stannis (who should legally be Tommen's heir based on precedent). This is also why Stannis had no problem naming Renly his heir (should he bend the knee) instead of Shireen.

@Hamilton-bm4qj 18 днів тому

Shouldn’t there be an equestrian class below minor lords? There are plenty of knights who enjoy greater status than small folk, but do not own land themselves and instead pledge service to a particular lord.

@alexTorres-cs7co 18 днів тому

for sure theres space for granulation

@Hamilton-bm4qj 18 днів тому

@@alexTorres-cs7co I’d say the difference between a knight vs a peasant or a knight vs a lord is more than granulation.

@alexTorres-cs7co 18 днів тому

@@Hamilton-bm4qj seems like you didnt understand what i mean, i agree with you theres space for more granulation/more specific categories in between those in the vid, now you get it? damn dude

@Ace-cr9qt 19 днів тому

Love ❤️ the video can do one were you rake each kingdom in terms of strengths and weaknesses and soldier quality?

@HouseofLore27 19 днів тому

I’ve got a similar idea on my list already, but thanks anyway 👍

@aegorbittersteel2154 22 дні тому

Simple answer House Blackfyre The True Royal Family is on top. Great video as always.

@HouseofLore27 22 дні тому

Honestly, these Blackfyre talks are treasonous at the least. All Hail Tommen Baratheon, true born son of Robert Baratheon and King of The Iron Throne. That “Targaryen” pretender is a traitor

@aegorbittersteel2154 22 дні тому

@@HouseofLore27 OUTRAGEOUS

@HouseofLore27 20 днів тому

@@aegorbittersteel2154 😅

@katori8341 20 днів тому

Now the big question is: Does the Iron Throne follow the male only or the male preference primogeniture?

@HouseofLore27 19 днів тому

This was something I was going to include in the video but couldn’t quite get it the script right for it. It’s officially male preference primogeniture and a female could potentially inherit, but people don’t like it to happen. Hence why both Rhaenys and Rhaenyra never become Queen. Simple answer is it’s only been males so far

@michellex98 18 днів тому

I do think that the hand of the king is more powerful than the high lords, you can see that when Ned orders Tywin to court. Everybody basically told him that it was a stupid decision but nobody questions his authority to do so, like Pycell said that it was better to wait for the king for this decision but not that the hand could not make the decision.

@michellex98 18 днів тому

And of course this was ignored by Tywin but that is only because Robert died and Ned was usurped making it null and void, otherwise I'm pretty sure Robert needed to revert the order or Tywin would have to go to court by law to answer for the crimes of his banner man

@thatoneblackdude3333 18 днів тому

The hands power depends on both the king in question and how much political authority and influence the hand has , technically yes Ned is more politically powerful then tywin but that's just in name in reality tywin is far more powerful then Ned hense why so many people are so worried about his decision to try and punish tywin for his crimes because tywin is such a powerful lord and has so much influence pissing him off us dangerous to say the least, this happened a lot even in the real world several times in the past noble lords were more powerful then British/English kings .

@brianhelmick1105 18 днів тому

Isnt it first born son, then their sons, then second born son and their sons and so on

@HouseofLore27 18 днів тому

Yeah, this is the system I explained. A lords son inherits, then his children in order, then his siblings in order. If they have children then of course it adds more to the line of succession

@timotheopilus5133 14 днів тому

The Iron Islands tho follows elective succession

@HouseofLore27 14 днів тому

They follow the same laws as the rest of Westeros (except Dorne), and have done for centuries. The Kingsmoot was stopped before Aegon the Conqueror and comes back only once after Balon dies, but only because Aeron Damphair doesn’t deem any of the heirs in succession fit to rule.

@dlugi4198 19 днів тому

daugther > brother? Wasn't this the plot of dance of dragons?

@HouseofLore27 19 днів тому

Well no not really. Aegon and Rhaenyra are half siblings. The conflict is because Rhaenyra was named heir before Aegon was born, but traditionally when a son is born they are made heir. Big succession dispute but not a Daughter > Brother one

@alexTorres-cs7co 18 днів тому

@@HouseofLore27 in other words the custom gives aegon the throne over rhaenyra, shes an exception, with viserys decree naming her against custom

@HouseofLore27 17 днів тому

@@alexTorres-cs7co Yeah, there’s a bit more to it than that obviously but that’s the essence of it

@powaaaahhhhh5323 17 днів тому

@@HouseofLore27 Also The Green's won the Dance with Dragons. So even if Viserys I was operating under succession laws of a different culture or changed the succession laws after the Dance with Dragons Targaryen succession would've been standardized with the Westerosi succession laws (Cognatic primogeniture) after the war. Cognatic Primogeniture was also upheld in The Great Council where Viserys I was chosen to be king over Rhaena. Knowing this one could say that there was never a legal precedent of primogeniture under Targaryen rule.

@HouseofLore27 16 днів тому

@@powaaaahhhhh5323 Yeah, I agree with you. I mean the Greens didn’t really win the dance of dragons. Yeah they did short term, but long term, the throne followed Rhaenyras line. It’s all very confusing and until we’re definitely told by GRRM or in one of the books, we’ll never know the true succession laws for the iron throne

@ce666isa3 19 днів тому

So basically Danny has more of a claim than Jon

@HouseofLore27 19 днів тому

Well no. If jon is a Targaryen like in the show (not confirmed in the books) and is the son of Rhaegar then Jon has a better claim than Dany. The line of succession would be Rhaegar, Aegon, Jon, Rhaenys, Viserys then Daenerys. (That is if most didn’t die during Robert’s Rebellion). At the start of the books and show, the Targaryen succession, if Jon was a Targaryen would be (F)Aegon, if he is a Targ, then Jon, Viserys and finally Dany.

@thatoneblackdude3333 18 днів тому

@@HouseofLore27no the top person is correct it's not a matter of Jon being a Targaryen it's a matter of his legitimatecy not his blood if he's a bastard as he should still be both thematically and logically based on westaros rules then no Dany would be over Jon because she's a legitimate Targaryen while Jon is a basterd .