Agreed. They are the model for good defense.

Oklahoma state use to do a aweosme switch defense on screens. I think 03-04 when they beat St Joes

How the only won one year what’s happen since belt to ass

Texas Tech ran a no middle a couple years ago, I think it’s a big12 Defense kind of thing

That’s awesome! Good for you guys. What HS do you play for, if you don’t mind me asking? And do you do anything specific that’s different than what you saw in the vid?

@@TheFilmRoom1 I play for Dover High school in Ohio. The only thing we don’t do is trap in the corners because it opens our D up for a skip pass three.

​@@jacobhanner8625are the players you face really good enough to consistently make that skip pass? Even at the nba thats a pretty difficult pass for all except the best passers. I feel like the value of trapping the corners outweighs the threat of skip passes

@@jojoprocess2820 yea, we are D1 (largest schools in Ohio) and there are some hoopers. A lot of teams play D this way around here, and we are taught to “look opposite” for the skip.

I think it’s really effective! Glad you learned this when you played.

This is such an insightful comment. Couldn’t agree more!

Actually I've watched a few videos on the no middle and the year Baylor switched to it they were pretty successful right away. I love the scheme but it's recruiting the players that have the x Factors that were highlighted. High effort, fast hands... Not every player has to shoot a 30 ft 3 to add value and Baylor seems to recruit this well. Remember you're talking about kids that have played with different AAU and high school coaches for the last few years so changing scheme is a part of their natural development at this point

Really appreciate that, Alex. You’ll have more content soon.

Thanks for the comment!

Really appreciate the comment! And you made some great points. The NBA needs to be put in a separate category, because those guys are so elite that the best defense in the world is still giving up 100+ per game. Their offensive abilities are on another level. As far as college & HS - I believe the goal should ALWAYS be to force the offense to shoot 2 types of shots. 1. Contested, non-paint 2pts and 2. Shots from guys who aren’t their ideal scorers (KYP - know your personnel). I think it’s hard to allow results to determine how good your defense is because a bad shot can still go in, perfectly executed defense can still get scored on, and terrible defense can still result in a missed wide open shot. So I like to get the teams I coach to focus more on the process than the results. Did we disrupt their flow? Did we let them get to the paint on middle drive? Did we take away rhythm shots from their best scorers? Did we rotate on penetration? Did we box out and pursue the rebound? If we can say yes to those things consistently - we give ourselves a chance to be a good defensive team. Hope that answered your question.

@@TheFilmRoom1 Thank you so much for the response, that answered it perfectly. I never played real organized ball so this is something that can really get lost on me either watching or playing defense myself, thank you for the insight

I appreciate that!

Pause

Thanks Anthony!

I appreciate the complement!

Thanks Zachary. I agree! I would say 1. Setting a lot of paired side Ballscreens, forcing the ice, and throwing the short roll so we can play the 3v2 advantage. 2. Trying to drive a lot from the slot and get straight downhill. I overemphasize it from a defensive standpoint to not let it happen because it can destroy your defense. 3. Spend a lot of time working on the 3 spots you need to get to on baseline penetration (since you know they’re going to let you drive from the corners) the T-Up, Corner, and Slot/Wing. And I have videos on 1 & 3 if you’d like to check those out.

I can understand that frustration for sure.

This is the only video I’ve done on no middle defense. I’ve got a few other videos on defensive concepts like Tagging and Stunting, but nothing else on no middle. Thanks for the kind words, they’re much appreciated!

Great question and observation. I think it was because of two reasons. 1. Kansas ran such a quick action to turn the corner and get downhill that #24 ended up being the crackback because he wasn’t in position to rotate. 2. Lightfoot (the big who got the dunk) isn’t much of a 3pt threat, and it’s not uncommon for guys who are guarding non-shooters to sag off & stay in the paint, which will typically make them the full-time goalie, which is what happened here. If #24 would have been locked in, the transfer of responsibility would have worked just fine. Let me know if that makes sense? Thanks for the question

I appreciate it! Have you noticed any glaring issues that team exploit?

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the comment.

Thank you!

I am actually surprised the film room1 responds to a comment so quickly. Are you a coach for Baylor?. Thank-you.

Haha no. I’m a D2 assistant coach currently. I’ve taught the no middle philosophy for the last several years and wanted to explain it for other people to benefit from.

Hi with all your knowledge you should be head coach at Baylor. Don't you agree? .

Being a head coach requires a lot more than breaking down the X’s and O’s of the game. I’ve been a head coach for two seasons and it’s much harder than people understand. I appreciate your kind words

Haha I know, his intention & what he’s taught is to force baseline, even though he got beat. They did a much better job on the other side when it was caught in the corner. I appreciate it!

Great question, and thanks for reaching out! That spacing does make it confusing for sure. I would recommend keeping your big a step, or two, off of his man when the ball gets to the wing (or below) and always be the early help in that situation. Then your defender guarding the opposite corner would need to crackback if the 5 dives to the rim on dribble penetration. If the 5 stays at the FT area, you can probably stunt on any catches & your 5 can rotate back in front after the ball gets passed. I doubt you’ll lose many games vs a team relying on their 5 man to make FT line jumpers. Just make sure that the defender on the opposite wing sinks and takes away the hammer pass when the crackback goes to take the big at the FT line. Essentially, the 5 man has become their “T-Up” he’s just really far away from the basketball. Let me know if that’s helpful, if it all makes sense, and if there’s anything else I can help with!

I’m not familiar with SOS defense. I’ve heard the term, but don’t know what it is. Something I’ll have to look into. Thanks for the comment!

@TheFilmRoom1 thanks for the vid. It's very similar to what the run. It can be affective running in spurts, to catch a team off guard. If you are down and you need a stop, or need a spark, it's great. If you have the right personal, it would be tough to break. When you look in to it, I'm sure you will.be able to see the similarities

www.championshipproductions.com/cgi-bin/champ/c/Basketball/No-Middle-Defense-3707.html The Alvin Brooks video has some good stuff

rotations after you guys help or get beat

I think it’s a fine place to start. My stance of defensive philosophy is this - no matter what scheme you run, as soon as someone gets beat off the dribble, you’re going to have to rotate. The reason I like forcing baseline is 1. It adds another “defender” (meaning the baseline) and there’s only 3 consistent options out of it. So, if you can rotate properly, you can get very good at rotations. I would tell you the top two priorities as you start teaching your kids is 1. Closeouts. Get really good at taking away initial catch & shoot 3s and don’t give up any straight line drives to the rim. 2. Help the helper. If you can rotate to the ball handler and cover up the helpers man (typically a post player in the short corner or a guard in the opposite corner) your kids will be light years above kids their age. Happy to help anyway I can, Brad!

Appreciate it!

Do you mean Kansas’s defense scheme?

@@TheFilmRoom1 yea

Hard to believe, right?? 😅

The more athletic your players are, the easier this is. The goal is to force baseline, BUT to stay out of rotations as much as possible. If you’re giving up straight line drives, this defense won’t work and part of avoiding SLD is having quick lateral movement from you guys. The other thing that makes this defense more successful is having a rim protector who is good at blocking shots without fouling.

Great question! And I don’t know if there’s a “right way” to make that happen. I would bet that there’s hundreds of coaches who feel the same. The two things I would suggest you try is 1. Showing your girls a team who plays like you want them to, and the success they have from playing hard. 2. Continue to challenge the ones who you can tell are holding back from giving their best effort AND (most importantly) when you see glimpses of the effort you want - you need to praise that effort publicly as much as possible. Would love to step up with your progress as you continue working with your team. It’s not a simple fix - it’s a daily process. Don’t get discouraged!

www.championshipproductions.com/cgi-bin/champ/c/Basketball/No-Middle-Defense-3707.html

This is a man to man defense. I know someone commented that it’s a matchup zone, but it’s not. When the ball gets driven baseline, their rotation principles have some “zone-like” qualities, but it’s a man defense.

Thanks for the reply appreciate it

I agree with you completely.

I believe they can. I would start with closeouts and build from there. At that age, most players they compete against won’t be elite shooters yet, so I would focus on getting them to close out under control & take away all middle drives. You need to be committed to not letting them closeout without a hand up while they’re doing it every time (that part can seem insignificant, but it’s vital) One you see that your team can consistently keep the ball out of the middle - id implement some shell drill situations and breakdown how rotations work. If you can find consistency in those two areas alone, I think you’ll see a pretty solid defense from your guys. Would love to help more if you need me.

I would always start with close outs. Easily the most important part of all of it. Focus on inside hand (closest to the FT line) close outs and the angle to make sure you’re not giving up middle drives or straight line drives to the rim going baseline. Then I’d make sure everyone understands baseline rotations. The bottom defender giving early help on the baseline drive, the “crackback” taking away the big in the “room”/short corner or hammer pass to the corner, and the backside elbow guy dropping and being in rotations. If you can do both of those things consistently, it’s a great foundation

When the ball goes in the post, they double team and scramble when it gets thrown out.

They’ve moved the college 3pt line back to the FIBA line, and most schools didn’t take the old 3pt line off the court.

In the slot/wing area - it’s pretty common for guys to open up too much and give up straight downhill drives. Once that starts happening, and you get into rotations, you can get picked apart. All defenses are in trouble when they get into rotations, and it happens to this defense when “no middle” turns into “it’s okay to get beat to the rim as long as it’s to the baseline. Other weakness is guards who are excellent passers that can throw lasers off baseline drive.

They both have an overall “no middle” philosophy. Tech has had several coaching changes recently, so each coach has brought a little bit of a different identity to how to do it. Overall, I think their philosophies are a lot alike, but one major difference is how aggressive Baylor is when the ball gets to the corner.

That’s a great point! Unreal bracket to get through

@@TheFilmRoom1 and they won almost all of those games by double digits the only exception being against Arkansas winning by 9

There’s a lot of similarities between the two. I think the main differences would be SOS has a lot more random traps. The SuperSonics would run and jump the ball handler at the beginning of the possession a lot. They were also not as strict on never letting the ball get to the middle of the floor - they would just heavy stunt once it did get middle. And the last biggest difference, imo, was post defense. They were pretty consistent in post firing (double teaming) on most catches and Baylor is more willing to play 1v1 post defense. If you have a chance to watch Iowa State - their defense has a lot of SOS principles in it. Check my vid about them beating UNC if you’re interested. Great question - hope this answers it

What zone do you think this is?

It’s man to man. There’s no zone involved in their defense, because everyone has their own man. The “zone” aspect of it, is how they rotate when the ball goes baseline. There’s typically one person on the backside of the defense who will take the first pass out, so in a sense, for a moment he is in a zone type situation. Pack line is a similar concept with rotating, the main difference is the pack line forces the ball middle rather than baseline. Hope that answers your question.

thanks - that's helpful@@TheFilmRoom1

You could. You’d just have to play 1v1 from the FT line from there. I’m sure they don’t let anyone get an easy flash & catch. But with Baylor, you still have to score 1 on 1 vs their really good defenders. Good thought!

The reason it’s not a zone is because guys don’t pass off their man when they cut or space to different places on the court.

Sorry to disappoint, I could have put him in there for sure.

Correct.

I think it will be difficult (if not impossible) because of the wider court - better overall 3pt shooters, and most of all, defensive 3 seconds.

already been done in the nba, heard a podcast clip of hero turkoglu when he was on the spurs he was talking about how popovich ran no middle defense

Could you explain that a bit further?

I feel like Coach Cal has changed his defense a few times in the last couple of years because he has a new group of guys every year. I’ll have to look into that.

It’s a great philosophy to teach kids how to play help defense for sure! If you use this strategy, I hope it goes well. Let me know if I can help

I would have to disagree that “it only worked 1 year”. They’re consistently one of the top defenses in the country. And Iowa State ran this same concept under Coach Oz the last two seasons and were ranked very high on KenPom defensively.

@@TheFilmRoom1 that’s cool but this not college football college basketball is you only as good as you do in the march madness you can loss ten games and still make the dance but you lose a college football game it’s over the pressure is different they only look dominant 2021 the been just good don’t say great or greatest those teams win championship if you not first you last

I would say it’s all relative to the competition. You couldn’t take a group of slow footed short players and do this at the power 5 level. But that same group could execute this at the D2 level. But personnel makes a huge difference!

I just made a long winded comment to say that same Loved the breakdown and never had put what I was watching into context

Anyone can play defense. Lazy people won’t work in this scheme makes more sense

That’s a nice strategy! Very insightful

It is definitely not a 2-3 zone.

Correct

What do you mean when you say regular? There are teams who regularly force the ball to the middle.

I don’t think it’s fair to say they copied it from Beard when Scott Drew was running this defensive scheme before Coach Beard got to Texh in 2016.

not true, it was a beard assistant that baylor hired from TTU to teach the defense.@@TheFilmRoom1

Who was that? And when?

Something to consider is this - regardless of what defense you’re playing, you’re always going to give up something. Good shooters can only expose this if that team also has great drivers who can also make on-time & on-target passes against pressure. If you’re not forcing baseline on dribble penetration, then you’re willing to let them go middle, and there are significantly more options available when a ball handler gets to the middle of the paint than to the sideline/baseline. Nothing about Baylor’s principles is a “gamble” anymore than letting someone drive middle is a gamble. Their philosophy is intentional & practiced meticulously. Not to mention, one of the best statistical defensive performances in the last decade.

@@TheFilmRoom1i appreciate your point but watch the weakside. 2 guys are always wide open because one defender has to stand in between to cover multiple guys. All it takes is one solid cross pass. I call it gamble because this defense heavily emphasizes paint protection and relying the weakside defender to anticipate the trajectory of the pass.

Correct. What defensive philosophy do you think eliminates open shots for the offense?

@@TheFilmRoom1 I believe defensive schemes is all about scouting your opponents. Forcing them to play their weak hands. I am not saying this isn’t solid philosophy, I am just saying this won’t work on every opponent. If you put emphasis on the paint, shooters get open and vice versa. However, there are defensive schemes where you only leave non shooters open. Let the big man leave his guy wide open and roam the paint and others put pressure on the perimeter. If there are 2 non shooters that would be a bonus. Again, this also won’t work on everyone, if the non shooter sets screens then the defense is vulnerable to slips/rolls. At the end of the day, they key is scouting your opponents

I agree with scout specific game plans. The “no middle” defensive scheme can do the same thing. If there’s a big on the perimeter & he can’t shoot - your 5 man can stay in the paint & be the “goalie” full time and you don’t have to rotate as much on the backside perimeter. And when the ball gets kicked to the perimeter you can scout specific close out as well.

On the contrary, nba teams should/do use this philosophy as well. You are a one dimensional thinker. Its not teaching "men" terrible habits, its adding multiple diminutions to their defensive skill set. You are the worst type of basketball fan commenting nonsense. I hope you're not a coach 'cause I can tell you're not keen to basketball. So quit hating.

?

No one cares Tyler

You are correct about 1 thing. It doesnt work in the pros because of the illegal defense rules but in college they dont have to worry about having the "goalie" or 'deep" man just camping under the rim. But you have to remember 2 things, first, college coaches first priority is to win games, and second, not very many players end up playing in the pros and if they do they are usually good enough to make the adjustments once they are there. But college coaches have been running this same exact Defense for decades, its not anything new and it is effective.

@@user-ti7rh2tv7e yea.. it’s just trash for those that went to college to become a pro like me. Absolutely trash