I paid about £5k to do an electrical course that promised the world, fair enough they got me qualifications but NO practical knowledge, I’ve learnt more from your UKposts videos than I did on the course, thank you and keep them coming 👍

And when you find an unexpected spare neutral in the switch some years after the install - you get a very happy customer 🙂

Great stuff. I would not strip the neutral at the switch end and use a standard choc block connector to save the Wagos...

Neutral at switch for myself is a winner 👍

The 3 electrician's i do work for, loop-in at switch for all new installations as it is much easier and safer for fault finding and testing.

In Denmark we use a 5 core for everything to do with switches so we have a permanent Live, neutral and ground in every switch and light fixture. I find that perfect for future proofing

Interesting and informative video. I did my apprenticeship in the late 70s and have kept up to date since. Now retired, but still have an interest for my own purposes at home.

This is definitely the way forward as it gives so many options post install and some commercial installs have been doing this for years as it gives the property owner the option to illuminate the whole property by providing a Live to the Switched Live side of the individual switches from one central point (Also particularly good for Fire / Burglar alarm systems)

Here in WA (Western Australia) most new build have a neutral at the switch, for existing homes that are looped at the light, most switches just have a twin (hard active and switches active). Getting a neutral to the switch isn’t always possible unless the customer wants their walls chased.

I have said for many years that a neutral block should be made to be attached in the back of a box to allow for a neutral cable along side the earth cable for such reasons a device comes along where such a connection is required.

Only electricians will understand this other builders will get confused for 2 way switching 👍🏽great idea keeping a neutral there just incase

Great job. Will be used on the next job. Thank you

Another really excellent useful video. The through-the-switch method tends to get quite busy. This seems like a great solution.

Remember once seeing in a two way switch, the live conductor in L1 the switch wire in the comon terminal, and the neutral in L2. Worked well.

Took a similar approach 10 years ago on my self build. I all light fittings go to the switch. All switches have a neutral back to the master cabinet and as many lives as there are lights in the room. This gives me the following options: 1) conventional switching 2) module such as z-wave in the backbox 3) ability to switch live from my central home point using automation. Thankfully I had an understanding spark who followed my design to the letter because he could sign it off under option 1 which is essentially a standard setup. But gives me the flexibility to adjust any room to suit my automation needs and still allows the whole house to be reverted to conventional switches should i ever sell the house

Great tuturial for someone learning the ropes as they say.....

I always put permanent live to L1, so when the switch is off there's one less live terminal. Good Painter and decorators are had to find and one less live terminal is probably a good thing.

Definitely the way forward, and I need to get my hands on those wago's for sure

Another great video. I have recently relocated a light switch in my living room and while doing so, picked up the neutral from the lighting circuit and ran a single to the new switch location. While I have a little access under floorboards, will try to fish in neutral for landing/hall light and kitchen too.

Much better imo to in and out of switch with neutral.

Very good informative video especially for the newer people to the game. I stated running 3 core and earth to switches as standard in 2015 to minimise the number of cables behind the switch plates especially where either flat plate switches are used and the back is used for loop in wiring. The floating neutral is ideal if a 5 amp socket or in the case of this video, a smart switch may be required in future.

Using 3C&E to give a neutral, is something I was taught to do 30+ years ago.

Thankyou so much for your great content, im currently on an electrical installations course which is run by 24/7 training uk, and I find that your videos are very helpful. Keep up the good work bud and great video 😊😊.

Thanks for your efforts Gaz. I think neutrals should now be fed to all switches on new installations/ feeds. I know you said that its more expense for the extra core but let's face it, it's minimal and it's a lot cheaper than replacing a T&E further down the line. I've just ordered the new Wago 221-2411 for my toolkit, I think they're a great addition and the way forward for the likes of extending cables to a socket etc and will replace my current Ideal Industries inline splice connectors, especially for class 2 cable.

I can wire a plug that;s it, but this was awesome and I subbed straight away to start to learn and understand.

Great video presentation, great idea and makes a lot of sense. I personally would prefer the first method using the wago connector. It's very handy having a neutral in the switch box, if for example it was in a hallway and you were installing an outside light, you normally would have no return from the switch, which could leave you clambering around in an attic or lifting up floor boards trying to locate a neutral to give you a return from the light. Also doesn't take that much longer to install. So well worth doing in order to future proof the system.

In my opinion if you want to really future proof your install you loose the ceiling roses completely as they are a pain with a lot of the lighting fixtures customers use that are nit designed for ceiling roses and either loop at the switches or use the widely available spliter systems to reduce the ammount of cabling. Great video though

Hi, Thanks for uploading such a nice videos. Any chance you upload combi boiler, thermostat and programmer wiring like this . Thanks

I thought most people were wiring through the switch nowadays anyway. What’s the first thing that happens to the ceiling rose when the homeowner moves in, it gets replaced with a fancy light and connectors above the plasterboard, then there are the wall lights. Much better to fit a deep back box and loop the neutral in some wagos. It was frowned upon when I served my time but times change

Seeing the folding over reminds me every time... Have you tried the NWS linesman's pliers? There is an indent at the tip that is amazing for folding over conductors in one fell swoop.

Really useful, thank you!

Always done it this way

In brief Gaz. Are you saying ...if u get a rewire ... Or partial upgrade .... 3 core /CPC is future Proof Great channel Gaz Long time viewer Learnt so much more .

Very interesting video. I agree 100% with you that its better to leave the neutral on a wago connector. One must keep in mind that not all types of switches have that option.

That’s actually really clever!

A floating neutral, that's a good description. One would know it's a neutral wire ready for future proofing for smart switching. 😳

We were told at Leeds college of building that it is good practice to take a neutral to the switch. My boss is set in his old ways and doesn’t like to do it.

I had the same conversation with my tutor at college gonna have to start using a flex/flat cable with more cores as the neutral will have to be the neutral and switch live will have to be something else.

When I did my AM2S the specification asked me to provide a neutral at each switch, which makes a lot of sense because of future proofing and it takes minimal effort if it’s done at the time of installation.

Just a note to add that you’d should use the same size conductors with a 3C&E to the switch.

Great video

Brilliant

With some drying boxes there's a prong that I use to push a choc block onto. I use one for the neutral and the other as earth on class two switches. As it's not carrying current I don't think it's necessary to use a wago. Would you usually sleeve all three cores with 2 way switching? I can't see how it would be ambitious in a domestic environment.

As a DIYer (I mean I've replaced a switch and not much else!), it would be far more obvious to leave the un-used neutral floating rather than terminated in to the switch. Before seeing this video - if I saw 3 cables plugged in to a 1 gang/2 way switch with 4 terminals, I think I would probably make a bang after replacing the switch with a 1g/2way 3 terminal switch. Leaving a neutral at every switch on new installs should be standard, but I expect a significant portion of new build homes won't get this treatment, because the cheapest quote is most likely to win the business, an extra £1-2 per switch in materials adds up quickly - my 4bed has around 20 light switches, multiply that out by 80+ homes on most estates and you quickly add thousands to your bid.

In NZ and Aussie they have always wired feeds into the switch, hence only twin and earth to the light fitting.

I’ve done a few rewires the other way around. 2 plate but run a three core to the ceiling rose. 2 plate saves extra cables at the lights…. but any benefits against this way are probably marginal.

Very good video, thanks for making it, although I wouldn't strip the cable to go in the Wago. Efficient or lazy 😂

Hi, maybe we should stop using blue wire as switch live and also phillips / pozi terminal screws.

Is that Wago inline connector new, first time I've seen them. Brilliant informative video as usual, Gaz you have taught us so much, thankyou.

Apologies if this has been asked before - I am wanting to swap a standard switch to a smart switch, I have 4 neutral wires currently chocked together in the switch box. Do all 4 need to be wired to the neutral of the smart switch? Or can I just use one of them? Many thanks.

You can buy smart switches which do not need a neutral. I have one in my kitchen. The only extra I needed on LED strip lights is a 100MF capacitor because there was a 50 Hz flicker. It was included in the box by the manufacturer.

Hi Interesting video. Just looking for some advice. I have a one way light switch which controls 2 ceiling lights. The switch has 3 cables coming in which confused me -1x 3 core and earth and 2x twin and earth. There is a neutral loop connection in the switch with 2 x blues and a grey, one com with 2x browns and 1x L1 with a brown . All earths are connected to the back of the box and there's a black wire just lying loose in the back. Could you explain this wiring to me? Most videos on light switches just seem to have one cable coming in.

Hi how can you use the current wiring for a smart dimmer switch.

Not an electrician but have done a nee install on my summer house, I ran my 3 core into the switch and run a 3 core from the pendant but inside the switch I used a blue butt crimp connector for the neutral and then just run my brown as the switched live, so I have a neutral at the switch should I need it, is this acceptable ????

Hi, great video. 22 seconds in you mention that there is also a video showing an extractor fan being added as part of your 3 plate wiring series. I've searched for this video before posting this but have been unable to find it, are you able to point me in the direction of this video please? Thanks in advance !

Just loop in at the switch!

Where does your neutral supply come from on a two way or three way switching system. The neutral at the other switches? Do you need to run a single neutral between switches as you’ve already used 3 core for strapper.

Perhaps you can save the wago by connecting two cores in parallel until such time as you need the neutral.

could I not run the consumer live through the switch and onwards to the rose terminating at the live in the rose running the neutral back to the common neutral in a junction box if I'm in a small house? If I used a 3 and earth from the switch, I'm thinking I could also connect it into the neutral at the rose without having to double up. I'm using a spider type system for my circuits running from a central junction that runs through a fuse box back to the consumer unit...I have a pretty small house and the rose I want to connect to doesn't need to be looped through

Can you show what would be Connected to the new grey/blue

Great video gaz just like to know are these students on daytime or evening classes

Nice one gaz 👍 your videos are going to help me massively when I eventually get to college to retrain 🙌🏻🙌🏻 can I ask gaz this may be a silly question but youl probably know , but most of the starting level 1course dates are all now sept2022 so is it possible to join the previous year class if you no what I mean , I’ve to speak to colleges when they open but just wanted to know if you could shed any light 💡I’m an adult learner so would be night school paid for by myself etc ... any room on your course 😂 I would love a teacher like you 🙌🏻🙌🏻

Some thing I always nag for to use 3corn than 2 just in case.. sooner be there than be a pain later

Id definitely leave the neutral in the wago at the back- just stops any unwanted accidents

Years ago the NICEIC would complain to us that we shouldn't have floating cpcs or neutrals in back boxes, albeit it tended to be connector blocks as Wagos weren't really common place then. We used to have to use 2 connectors fixed with a screw through the middle of the connector or use a strong double sided adhesive tape to secure the connector. Always thought it was an absolute waste of time and it was short lived to be fair. It's not something I've heard being raised these days.

CAN I USE A SOCKET TESTER AS A SYSTEM OF A SAVE ISOLATION AN TO FIND AN UNKNOWN CIRCUIT BREAKER

Also gaz after taking level 3 can they wire domestic houses or do they need to do other courses

This reminds of modern houses having the permanent line in the common with a neutral. Now when installing the smoke and heat alarms under LD2 upgrading no permanent line in ceiling, pain in the butt.

as a electrician in America, I an frequin lost in your video!

Assuming smart switch used electronic switching (i.e. no relays) and its circuit uses less than 1 watt, that equates to approx just under 5mA, so can we not use an earthing conductor as a neutral and get away without having to rewire for a smart switch on older installations, and again using no more than two or three smart switches per lighting ring circuit, such that total current drawn by these switches is just under 15mA or half of a normal RCD trip current of 30mA, or could you not upgrade RCD to 45mA trip current to compensate. Most small electronic circuits use a simple capacitor and a diode to generate approx 10v to 12 volts for the electronic circuit which in turn can switch on a triac to switch power to lighting circuit. Although this may not comply with wiring regs, but it can definitely work without tripping RCD and the rest of the circuit would still be protected by the RCD. A switch electronic or not is not suppose to consume too much power in itself, its like an electric meter cannot use too much power or the meter itself becomes a power consumer or an unwanted load. Or we could also balance the current running through an RCD such that if Live is drawing 5mA for a smart switch through an earth being used as Neutral , then we make the Neutral also drawing the same 5mA current by connecting a power resistor of overrated wattage of say 5 watts ( when only 1 watt resistor is needed of approx 47K) from the RCD protected Neutral to unprotected Live inside the consumer unit, his would balance the RCD and stop it tripping. Those who don't understand Electronics will most likely frown upon this idea, but it can certainly work and can be just as safe as long as the resistor is mounted in a small heat proof box and left inside a large space of a consumer unit or wired in another box next to a consumer unit if there isn't enough space. Of course, every aspect of safety needs to be looked at, and the only problem here is if an earth is being used as a neutral and is steadily drawing a small load current for running smart switches, a hazardous situation can arise only if an earth loop in loop out gets disconnected in another socket or ceiling point and may become live though its current will be limited to 5mA. But it may be enough to buzz anyone not expecting it to be carrying current, so safety warning can be stuck on those sockets or ceiling roses, to warn to disconnect that circuit from the CU before carrying out any earth disconnections. warning note also left in the CU. An Experienced or qualified electrician would or should never disconnect bunch of earthing's on a live circuit knowing that it may be carrying other minor fault currents such as leakages from suppression capacitor filters in appliances.

Wire to switch all day long for me.

I agree with everything, other than the use of the Black as switching. I am old School, I fitted Red & Black wiring long before the Colour changes, so automatically relate Black as a memorable Neutral. The Grey being "other". Call me old fashioned, but it sits better and more logical with me.

The only time a neutral is needed at a switch is when the switch is switching an outside light where both the switch wire and the neutral need to be isolated for total safety requirements

Could you just use a 2-way switch? Switched live to common, perm live to L1, neutral to L2? That way your switch in one position supplies live to the light, and in the other position supplies neutral to the lamp - we know the other side of the lamp will always be neural. Any reason that wouldn’t be safe?

Why does the new cable have such a confusing colour scheme? Why not Brown, Blue CPC and grey?

I've haven't moved over to smart switches yet. I just wonder how this will work with 2-way switching, if we need an extra neutral at the 2nd or intermediate switches, would we benefit from a 4-core flat cable? I really don't want to start installing two twins for every 2-way switching circuits. Kinetic switches might become a better option in the future, not sure if there is a way to make them dimmable without cabling though as yet. Regarding your comments on the looped neutral connection at the switch and DIY'ers, I wouldn't really give it much thought. If someone is changing a switch and aren't competent then that is their own fault. We can't allow for stupidity during our installations.

Wago need to produce a single (one wire) connector that can be used as a blanking end for cables.

a good video to make work for electricians , nothing more.

I notice that your wire strippers are marking you insulation on the wires

Can we use a single core wire?

one could also just pull 2 cables to the switch, one feeding with 3 wires, and 3 wires going to the lamp, this way the phase, neutral and ground are always clear and nothing to go wrong there, of course the one installing SHALL mark which is the feeding cable...

In stead of making all the connections at the ceil rose why not do it at the switch using a slightly deeper back box and all you have at the rose is a live and neutral, this also stops the diy'er add lights all over the place

Did hear of this prospective amendment prior to 2018 , 18th regs , double pole light switches etc, and its only just being potentially publicised now ? 🤷‍♂️

Great video Gaz . But I just can’t bring myself to like the idea of having a neutral at the switch? To me that’s what they did back in the 20s and 30s it seems the industry is going backwards not forwards . Also you say you like to double over the conductors ? That is what we are supposed to do it has always been tort in colleges as it gives the screw a better area to bite on but we don’t need to double the ends over when two or more conductors go in the same terminal. Fantastic video as always mate 👍👍👍❤️

It seems that loop connector in the switch is not very well marked and could be improved.

Been running 3 cores to the switch for L, (P) 2 s/l's for donkeys years now using 4 cote L 3 s/l's or 2/l.s N☑️☑️☑️

If pulling down a neutral is not a option, it's always possible to create a "virtual neutral" to power your smart switch, using diodes and a capacitor. ukposts.info/have/v-deo/cJhjbWNnqaaCq6M.html

the idea of "de-neutralising" the black wire is an interesting one. personally I have been using black as a neutral with blue sleeve/tape on that ground that if the sleeve did fall off for any reason it could still be clear to someone what it is. maybe we just need to ditch black neutrals though.

Who wires at the pendant anymore , nightmare when a fancy light put up , thought everyone wires feeds to the switch?

Why not ask the manufacturing industry to provide a neutral connector in the back box or the patress?, much tidyer / safer,🤔

I would guess in 10 years time every switch will be a smart switch. Having a neutral means they just work. No neutral ones are very unreliable, the wrong bulb and it will flash. After thought - I suppose we have kenetic type switches too.

Why wire 3 plate anymore? Classic pendants are mostly ripped out as soon as someone moves in to a new property in favour of downlighting or more decorative fixtures, which don’t accommodate 3 plate. Time UK sparks came inline with the rest of the world and just wired 2 plate as standard

No a fan of those cable strippers, it’s just another tool in the bag. Also, depending on the size of the enclosure, it’s not always possible to get all the grey sleeve off. Much prefer side cutters, although they take a bit more skill to use properly.

Better still, future proof: get network cable to your light switch! Wire to a central location!

That three core and earth cable. The colour code is awful. This is commonly used cable as well. It should be brown (L), blue (N), Y (switched live). Then no ambiguity.

I would favor never adding a neutral to a switch in any way shape or form, it's going to catch somebody out one day. weirdly my house which was built in 2006 before smart switches even became a thing already had neutrals available. it also used Brown Brown Blue and earth, much nicer.

I note your strippers consistently nicking the inner insulation. Any localised stress on the cables (bending/pulling) can then easily result in the insulation failing. This is not good and IMO should result in the installation being snagged and failing inspection.

You can buy no neutral smart switches,so no if you buy no neutral smart switches then no neutral is required at the switch,so to me in 99% of domestic properties the only time you would need a neutral would be at the front door or backdoor switches where the neutral is required to be isolated ,so if you are a DIY person all you need to do is to Google the relevant information which will save you following some of these videos

Great video but this shows the nonsense of the colour colouring of cables in the UK. 'Sleeving', - I know it's been used for years - but it is an absolute crap method of colouring cables because the sleeving isn't easy to see (blue against grey!) and often get missed. We should go back to the red/black colours and we should adopt the Irish cable system of having the earth sleeved green/yellow throughout the length of the cable, as well as going back to the more sensible 4 core cable colours red, yellow, blue and black rather than the 'new' brown, black, blue and grey. We could also have cables with numbered wires, i.e. a number printed in white into the cable, 1, 2, 3, etc. Let's face it, the cost of cable is next to nothing compared with time.

Or you do what one lazy so called electrician did and use the cpc to the switch as the negative for a smart switch.