Arcane has multiple strong female characters, both protagonists and antagonists. What it also does is still retain strong male characters, the female characters aren't strong because the male characters are weak, they are simply strong characters. Its maddeningly well written and I hope they continue the quality in the 2nd season.

Watching episode 3 of Arcane, I was literally clapping my hands, going "Oh boy, oh boy! Powder's gonna save the day, and totally wreck Silco's operations, now that she's finally figured out how to make her bombs work properly! This is her moment to shine!" I was fully prepared for an epic, massive explosion that demolished the entire building... I was not prepared for the consequences of that explosion.

Remember: The magic of subverting expectations well, is not the the subversion. Anyone can come along and just do what's unexpected out of nowhere (*ahem* Johnson). What takes real talent is the expectation. Leading the audience down a false path that _feels_ genuine, only to pull the rug out and still have the real path make sense, _that's_ magic.

I have a friend who loves Star Wars and is in film school no less and feels TLJ is "pretty good" based only on the fact it was subversive. I keep arguing that it matters what is being subverted, how, and to what end. The sheer act of subversion alone doesn't make you a creative genius.

The biggest point of subverted expectations for me in Arcane was when Jynx used the flare and Vi was running towards her. I was so sure that something was going to stop Vi and that was why Jynx was gonna have issues with her. "You said you'd come and you didn't". But Vi made it to her. They reunited. But then Vi and Jynxs mindsets at the time and inability to communicate wih each other tore them apart again. It was so painful and so real. Its typical story telling when things in the universe just cause problems between characters. But it was so fucking raw for two people to just not be able to get on the same page and come to an understanding with each other.

I don’t mind the subversion of Rey’s parents, it’s the fact that they acted like Rey had been watching the movies. “Your parents were no bodies! They weren’t even main characters!” “What?? They were my parents, why would I give a shit if they’re galactic celebrities? What a weird thing to say.”

To me arcane is proof you can have almost all the things that modern audiences like and still make a good show at the same time. It literally has almost everything most people would complain is pandering yet did it very tactfully, atleast in my opinion

I hated that they acted like Poe was somehow wrong even though had the Dreadnought not been taken down right then and there, the entire fleet would've been decimated during the chase. It was already stupid that the First Order fired on the abandoned base, since it was hastily abandoned, any competent military would instead send ground troops down to scour for any left behind information, instead of just firing on the waiting ships in front of them. We all know the bombers were a horrible choice, but one of the strongest ships in the First Order fleet for like 8 bombers is a pretty good trade. Luke's bastardization was just Rian being as obtuse and changing as many things as he can. A better way to subvert expectations on why Luke ran away? Make Luke believe in Kylo, even knowing he's got darkness in his heart, believing that even with that darkness, much like him and his father, he will face that darkness and grow over it, leaving it behind. Then, Kylo betrays Luke's trust, killing all other students of his new Jedi Order and destroying everything Luke worked for, now, Luke is shaken to his core, he constantly believed in his father and knew he'd return to the Light Side, but now he sees how his belief in people can be misplaced. This would make sense canonically and it would be a much better way to explain his exile, which still sucks overall, but at the very least you can explain it away as his internal conflict, between wanting to believe in his nephew, but not wanting more people to fall into the light and dark struggle.

As someone who is a League player and have known Arcane's characters for the last 7 years. I know full well that Jinx will have to happen eventually, but as the show goes on, I was starting to empathize with her that maybe there's a chance. In episode 9, I know there's no way that Jinx would kill Caitlyn and put her head on that platter but I was hooked into the scene and felt like tgey were real that at the moment I was also scared. It just left me questioning myself why would I even believe that. And that's when you know the writing is that great.

Really appreciate how this touches on what TLJ did well in addition to the bad, a take we don't see often

I love the complex "grey" characters in Arcane. No one is really a "good guy" or "bad guy"

When I was watching arcane, through both the 2nd and 3rd arcs, I was so hoping that Jinx would come back as Powder, but part of me new that wasn’t going to happen. I have a little bit of hope right there at the last episode, and at Vi and Powders initial attempt at reunification at the end of the 2nd arc, but I think the show went in the right direction with it

The problem with calling Rey's parents nobodies, it's a meta line. She didn't care who her parents were in the Force Awakens only that they'd come back. The only reason the parent thing became relevant was people wanted some explanation as to where her force power came from if she didn't really train at all, but can still mind-trick effectively out force-pull Kylo and so much more. Anakin, before EU stuff, was a gifted nobody from Tatooine who still had to train to not overstep his bounds. But we knew how he felt about his family. He worries constantly, asks about them, we see his relationship prior to the abandonment. Rey's parents being nobody does nothing because we don't know anything except that she hoped they come back. Rey being a nobody in context of only until the lightsaber trip scene in Force Awakens is fine. After demonstrating force abilities that are only seen in masters some "lineage" was the only way to explain it, or maybe even a guardian of hers who told her about the force in stories on Jakku would be better than the nothing we got until :I ROS.

I actually like how Rey’s parents were (or well at least supposed to be (sort of?)) nobodies. I thought that it was good subversion too. Cool to see I’m not alone

I watched Arcane expecting nothing special about it. All I knew is that it was set in LoL's universe (which I never played), to me it was just a way to pass the time. And sure the first three episodes were entertaining enough so I just followed along. Then... Man... The ending of ep.3 left me stunned like no tv-show or movie had done in a very long time... TLJ did not stun me at all, I had even less expectation from it as I came into that new trilogy very cautiously and new the main plotlines, I was disappointed that it was even worse than I think it could be, especially by the way Luke seemed completely ruined. Thanks to you I finally understand why I felt those ways. Thanks.

Arcane's best "subversion" was done by not subverting expectations during the blue-flair scene. Totally thought "Ok here we go Vi's not going to make it and Jinx is going to assume she's abandoned again and then double down on the evil" mostly because that's what all the crappy writers have been doing for years. BUT! Vi made it! Kept her promise to Powder, and for a brief moment we were able to struggle against our tear ducts and wonder if we were about to see a POWER HOUSE TEAM-UP. That was the moment that really made me an Arcane fan for life... or until someone like Ryan Johnson, Kathleen Kennedy, or JJ gets involved and F's it up.

The biggest problem with Rey's parents being nobodies is... her saying out loud to Kylo (and the audience) that they were nobodies. The last film established that Rey simply wanted to find them, she knew who they were, she didn't expect them to be significant characters in the galaxy's history. The idea isn't bad but the execution is tone deaf, it's like she is breaking the fourth wall and actually commenting on stuff that only exists outside the universe of the movie.

I think the way they could have handled Luke drawing his lightsaber on Ben would be via a vivid vision that had him react. Say Luke senses something, so he walks to Ben's room, then gets a vision so intense that he pulls his lightsaber out to deflect a hit from a helmeted figure (kylo), which wakes Ben up and then continue as it was in movie. You would need more scenes showing Ben being corrupted or in inner turmoil. This way, Luke isn't trying to preemptively kill his nephew, he's reacting in self defense to an extremely intense and realistic vision. This is how I head canon this shit anyway, that Luke reflexively drew

Arcane is a masterpiece I never fully realized the disservice to Luke on the first watching, but it soured over time and thought. You have given me a new appreciation for thematic subversion.

I can't believe I forgot about Arcane... I made a personal top 10 series I've watched and I 100% missed arcane

What I find interesting about Arcane is the difference in experience of someone who knows nothing about LOL VS someone who does. For someone who knows Lol lore, the dynamic of Vi and Powder in the first 3 episodes is itself a subversion of expectations. That entire section of the show is dramatic irony and suspense as you wait to see how everything goes horribly wrong.

Even when knowing LoL lore, knowing that everything has to go wrong at some point, and even calling that Vander, Milo, and Clagger would die at some point, Arcane still suprises you. Nobody expected everything to go wrong so early on, nor did we expect all the subplots and side character development

Good video but Iv always felt the problems with the Sequel Trilogy started with The Force Awakens not TLJ. Remember that insulting "A Good Question for another time" JJ used to hand wave away any problems with his mystery box plot. It's been admitted that they didn't have Luke show up until the end because he took the focus of the ST characters and Poe was meant to die in the Tie crash but was kept alive for no other reason than Oscar Isac asked too.

Part of the reason why subversion worked in Arcane is because it's driven by /character/. Powders actions make /sense/ for what was established for her, and as awful as it was, still made sense with the context of the world. They felt true to a sense of realism and coherence. Luke was absurd and made no sense for his trajectory, as you said.

The arcane shot of the monkey hits me like a truck. It's amazing how much the show managed to pack into a single... Clap

Well, to be honest I never felt like the whole "Rey's parents were irrelevant" was a good subversion of anything. Not in the way it was done at least. The only thing I thought back then was "why did they take a space shuttle if they were just going to a bar a few miles away ?". Even if that retcon of Episode VII was retconed by Episode IX (retconception), all of this was just pretty questionnable writing. Anyway, I totally share your analysis of Luke's character. A guy that refused to give up on his father who had done actual genocides and murdered children with his own hand(s), a guy who knew that future could be changed for having done just that by going to Bespin and a guy that showed years before that Yoda was wrong and that it was possible to come back from the Dark side shouldn't have had the idea to even hurt his own nephew... not even for a split second. Heck why did they make Luke fail at remaking the jedi order anyway ? There was no reason for him to fall for the dogmatic vews of the jedi of old. He defeated Vader by using his rage but then immediately chose non-violence in the face of pure evil. He literally proved that a jedi could remain a pure hearted hero even after aknowledging his own feelings and emotions and that both of his masters (both members of the old jedi council) were wrong in many ways.

I stumbled upon arcane completely by chance and is since one of my all time favorites ❤

That episode 3 of Arcane ... It didn't just subvert the expectation. Once you start to see it can happen, we are slowly descending to pain. It was not some stupid, jump scary twist. Once you see it coming, you will immediately realise it was always coming. What happened to powder fits perfectly to the build up soo far, just that there was a trope that it didn't follow. Arcane is soo damn good

I’m sure I’m not the first to mention this, but the way ep. 9 ended in Arcade. That was just as unexpected, at least to me

The main issue with The Last Jedi's subversions (as someone who saw it once and is going by memory) is that they seemed SO dependant on fan theories, that have long since been lost to time, that anyone who wasn't aware of them will probably just be like "huh, that was a weird decision."

I'd like to make another point about Jinx and Vi meeting again: My expectation was for Jinx and Vi to be enemies. I expected Jinx to still be mad about what happened, even expected her to be mad at Vi for not coming when she lit the flare. This was further set up by the fact that they are enemies in game and it shows them fighting in the opening credits. I was expect them the have a final battle where Jinx may be redeemed after being defeated. But none of that happened.

Arcane was incredible. I didn't see a lot of those twists happening beforehand, which is unusual I'm generally good at calling a story before it happens. But in hindsight, knowing where Jinx's character arc was going, it makes sense. That's why it worked. As you said they built up her characters development and even after the time skip they reinforced that character development so that it felt genuine.

arcane gives me second hand pride. Im just so proud of all the hard work the creators went through to make such a compelling story

I remember watching Powder’s disastrous attempt to help her friends, and sincerely, really hoping in my heart that it was going to be a dream sequence, or something going on in Powder’s mind before we all snapped back to the reality that existed before. The fact that that was not the case absolutely caught me by surprise, and in a really good way. It’s not just that my expectations were subverted, but that the writers and animators of the show made me really enjoy and believe in the characters in the first few episodes. To see them experience such a tragedy, and especially to watch Powder and Vi get separated at that critical moment…bro it was a master-stroke. I was already invested in the plot before that moment, and that’s what made that moment and everything that followed so good to me.

Loved Arcane!! Such a well done show overall.

Arcane subverted expectations in a number of ways, but for me, the biggest subversion was that it was actually GOOD.

Can't speak for other people, but I was an avid league player when Arcane came out and I was excited to see the backstories of my favorite champs animated. I already knew where everyone would end up, and I knew it would be tragic. What I did not expect was how fast they turned it around. I thought it was gonna be a slow burn as Powder and Vi slowly grow apart and Powder loses her mind bit by bit, but NO it was catastrophic from the start. So gut wrenching and they did it so well

I'd argue that Rey's parents being nobody is still a bad example of subverting expectations. Let's start with what the purpose of subversion is: it is to change an expected arc's direction in a way that is still logically consistent on a rewatch and creates new implications to consider and new paths for the characters to take. Arcane's third episode is great because its subversion is entirely telegraphed by the characters and their motivations. It goes against the expected convention of a group of young kids against unstoppable odds, but the character dynamics lead to choices that will naturally prevent the expected convention from properly forming. Once Powder is told that she's not ready by the one person that has always had her back, it doesn't matter how sound the decision is to leave her behind because Powder will do anything in her power to prove herself, no matter how destructive it ends up. Moreover, this change in arc creates new paths for the characters to follow as they are fundamentally shaped in drastically different ways by the events. Compare this to Rey's parents being nobody. Rey's parent's could have been anybody, regardless of preestablished relevance, that would make Rey reconsider things about herself or the hope that she was holding onto or make others see Rey in a different light. Instead, we get nothing, a dead end, a surface-deep subversion. This was exacerbated by the fact that Rey's concern for her parents was already resolved in TFA when Maz told her that whoever she was waiting for on Jakku isn't coming back and that she should instead seek Luke to train her. Her sudden interest in her parents again in TLJ is jarring without something to reignite this interest. But the whole reason her parents have been made so important are because of two main flaws in Rey. 1. She is lacking in any other defining trait like Luke or Anakin had, so audiences latch onto the one promise of development that they've been presented with, hoping that it will lead to something that will define her. 2. She is given too many skills that let her escape situations that the plot throws at her. The Prequels already established that Jedi can come from anywhere, Rey isn't special in that regard. Anakin wasn't from some blessed bloodline, he was the start of the bloodline. Obi-Wan wasn't from some dynasty, neither was Mace Windu or Yoda or Qui-Gon. They all trained to be as skilled as they are, and proper dynasties are unlikely considering the Jedi Doctrine's stance on attachments. But Rey didn't need to train to be so inexplicably skilled, so people speculated that she must have inherited her skills. If she had some defining character traits that helped her better distinguish herself or wasn't as skilled to start (preferably both), questions about her parents would not be as significant.

Thor Skywalker started his channel with a Rey's parents are nobody theory, but switched to they have to be somebody after Episode 8. I liked that she came from nothing, it was tragic that her parents sold her to fuel their vices and reinforced the idea from Anakin that anyone could become a Jedi. I grew up with Clone Wars, but rewatched the Original Trilogy a few time. I did not grow up with Luke, but respected what he represents so even I thought Rian did him dirty.

The only critique I have of your take on the subversion in arcane is that it was really only a major subversion for people who hadn't played League. Players know Vi and Jinx were against each other. What caused the rivalry? That we didn't know when they came out but there were some hints if you knew where to look. As soon as I saw Vi and Jinx as kids I thought "origin story" not "new adventure with band of misfits." Definitely subversive to newcomers though. Great vid.

I loved Arcane even though I saw all the twists coming. Not because I think I know how all writing goes but because I had been playing League of Legends for nearly a decade a prior and was very well versed in the lore of the universe. So when I saw all these characters appear I knew that something *had* to go wrong in order to get them from point A to point B. Even knowing this the way that Arcane went about it was incredibly well done as it felt completely natural for these characters to make the decisions they did to end up how they did in the end.

I freaking love Arcane and have been obsessed with it for over a year now. It was like lightning out of a blue sky, an oasis in a desert of mediocre entertainment and one of the few shows i will 100% call a masterpiece. I remember being surprised and impressed with the writing prowess and subverted expectations throughout the show and am nervously hopeful for season 2! I like the good subversion that TLJ pulls and the sense of hope. I hadnt noticed it like that before and makes me appreciate it more 👍

Finding your channel has been an abject joy. You’re a fan of some of my most beloved stories, and I’m actively trying to study to improve my writing- and looking at the classics through your breakdowns is incredibly helpful. Thank you master Samwise, chiefest of all Hobbits- the grandest gardener there has ever been 🌱❤️

I knew the characters in Arcane from the game, so I knew things where going to get ugly, but I was certainly amazed on how well they told/delivered this story. It's truly a masterpiece.

I will never get tired of Arcane analysis 😁 great video!

I did not see it coming in ep 3 of Arcane. I was going into it blind, totally, I have never seen anything so blindly without spoilers, story synopsis or even trailer. After ep 1 and 2, I expected EXACTLY what you said, group of mysfit heroes, struggling to save their mentor when suddenly the smallest, most useless memeber of the team shows up and saves them... and then... BANG. During that shot my mind was like: It didn't work? *bomb explodes* WOW *bomb hits Powder* NOOOO... wait shes fine, phew *bomb explodes to Silco and Sevika* YEAH take that *bomb explodes the whole drug lab* WOW NO WAY *bomb explodes inside* wait what the... *Milo and Claggor are dead* !!!!!!!!..... Arcane blew me away, I would consider it as close to masterpiece as a show can get and I can't wait for season two. Great video by the way :D

I think you made a very important point: You're taking your characters to a new level. I believe this whole "Subverting expectations" started with Game Of Thrones, especially in their episode "The Red Wedding". However, that moment wasn't there just cause, it pushed our characters and the audience's understanding to a new level where you can't just be naive in a political world and think that everyone will play fair, some will play dirty and backstab you if it's more profitable. I also noticed this trick used to perfection in the anime Attack On Titan where every time you think you have a grasp on the plot and worldbuilding, the show goes NOPE! YOU'VE SEEN NOTHING YET! And reveals a new element in the story to make things feel darker and more complicated.

An important element to add to your debate on expectation subversion has to do with something I think should be touched upon: believability. The trope of the young childs in Arcane leads to the idea that, to prove herself, Powder will be there, use her toys and save the day. That's how it should go following the expected path. You could subvert that path in any number of ways, like for example, Powder changing sides and becoming Jinx without buildup or explanation (not saying that's a good path for it). But the one chosen is the best subversion possible because it is believable: if you are a little girl playing with explosives you don't understand and using them in an uncontrolled manner, the logical consequence is that people are gonna get hurt and things won't go as you would think they would. The trope, since it's supposed to be the hero doing it and not the backstory for the villain, is set in a way that we expect the unreasonable to be what happens (that she would save the day), when in real life such an outcome would not be expected because we don't have heroes and plotlines in the real world. So a large part of doing a good subversion of expectations has to do with you making that alternative take actually feel more real than the expected one, like almost unavoidable once it comes to pass: of course Rei's parents are not Skywalkers, did you really think the galaxy is so small every important character has to be from the same family? Well yes, that was the expectation to many, but the reasonable situation is actually the subversion.

Arcane is one of the most brilliant show I have seen in recent years. It deserves all the praise it gets!!! I just fear the second season will not top the first one... the first season is a 9.8 out of 10. How can you top that?

Arcane did a brilliant job of subverting expectations in a way that was organic and almost inevitable because, while unexpected, given the characters and the world, the choices and the results could not have been otherwise. Basically, subverting expectations done well: unexpected but inevitable (natural, organic, makes sense and is in line with pre-established story elements)

The Sequels were more like that "who shoot first" moment when every movie tried to fix previous one (previous ones in case with Episode VII (tried to fix the Prequels)). Also beside fact of differences between artistic visions of Whedon and Abrams. Joss is very pliable with interests of those who stands above (therfore Poe and Finn were pushed aside by Strong Female Characters™), while J-J just does whatever he want (so idea of given up Luke was his own, which was asked to not be forgotten in next Episode). We basically need a remake of Sequel Trilogy made by single person in charge or just forget them, because now we have Rey rebuilding Jedi Order. The same Rey who killed Palpatine, who now should live within her hear (by his own words of course but still) xD

Thank you for putting into words what I have been feeling about the new Star Wars Trilogy. Comparing it to Arcane was genius. Great video.

my favorite thing about arcane is that despite me knowing the lore, the twist was still insanely well done. they did an excellent job of mapping the story in a way that was still unpredictable despite knowing the general end point

The problem is when characters changes off screen. Luke's change could have worked if they added a lot of flashback to really explain his change, maybe even a full movie. But a huge character change without showing the transformation is bad, if the writer can't come up with a way to show the transformation in a believable way then they need to scrap the idea.

Man, I love your detailed breakdowns and comparisons. I'm writing a massive sci-fi crossover fanfic, and I care about quality. I'll now be using your channel for reference and advice. I also like how several of your individual videos are divided neatly by writing topic - writing, choreography, etc. I'm also a fan of several UKpostsrs like Dave Cullen, Critical Drinker, Nerdrotic, etc, but your videos are actually better in their own way, especially as a shop reference for writers. Whereas their videos are more just for the casual viewers.

The more I thought about the Last Jedi, the less I liked it. The more I think about Arcane, the more I realize how well written it is. Good video 👍🏿 Edit: I just had an epiphany. As a microcosm of its issues, TLJ has point A (the Luke at the end of Episode 6) and point B/B' (the Luke who was tempted to murder his nephew on a vibe/the Luke in the present of the movie). TLJ goes from point A to point B and skips the line between the two when the line is more important and more interesting.

Reys parents being nobodies creates a plot hole that only gets bigger as time goes on. If you want to go that route, you have to then explain why she was so good with the force and lightsaber fighting, given she's had no training on either. RJ couldn't be asked to do that. The whole movie is RJ shitting on TFA and leaving nothing for the followup to do.

1:19 This isn't an example of a good subversion of expectations. I didn't need Rey to be related to a previous character or a clone to be interested in that story. Her parents could have and should have been original characters. The problem is that the subversion does away with any potential for an interesting story. It is in fact the opposite of a story. It isn't the job of a writer director to essentially insult their audience over there fan theories. It's their job to tell a good story. Imagine if Rey's parents were new Jedi characters Luke was training who turned to the dark side and assisted in the corruption of Ben Solo. Imagine if Luke had to kill her parents with kylo Ren revealing that to Rey at the end of The Last Jedi. Perhaps as a final act of good Ben could have sent her into hiding. Maybe they could have had it to where he became close to her during their training. This would also be a payoff for why we see Kylo Ren killing one of his Knights of Ren in The Force Awakens flashback. Perhaps he could have used a mind trick to modify her memory for extra security. This could have also been why Luke was almost shocked when he sees her at the end of The Force Awakens. Believing that she had been killed the night Ben destroyed the temple. And Luke having given Ray some training previously would have helped smooth out the reason she was already proficient in the force. And this could have also offered some conflict between Rey and Luke going forward and provided the backbone for an actual danger of her going to the dark side. It would have been especially interesting if all Kylo Ren had revealed to Ray at the end of The Last Jedi is the fact Luke killed her parents. And Luke sensing her conflict over this could have withheld the full context from her until after her training and after he steers her away from the dark side. Luke could have given Rey the opportunity to kill him as a final test and she wasn't able to go through with it and so afterwards he reveals what actually happened. You know? Something like a story that pays off plot points that had been previously set up as opposed to nevermind. It all meant nothing but we had you going didn't we? And I'm not saying my proposal was the only thing they could have done to make it interesting. Any writer worth their salt could have told a compelling story without resorting to previous lore or cheap tricks. Either way this subversion is just as trash as the rest of the movie.

Subversions need to be used as a condiment. The more often it happens, the faster it starts to mean nothing. In TLJ specifically, I feel like it would have gotten a much better reaction if Luke had simply not taken the lightsaber. If he told Rey to keep it, and that he no longer deserved it, then it wouldn't have seemed like he stopped respecting it but rather that his isolation and lack of action was a result of personal guilt.

RIP to all the poor bastards who watched this video without watching Arcane first. May your souls rest in peace.

If it was instead Kylo who attacked Luke while Luke was sleeping due to building arrogance and cavalier attitude towards the dark side of the force and snoke's corruption.. We would have been totally on board with Luke wanting to run away like a failure. It would have also made Kylo's wavering redemption arc more potent since he could be seen as feeling he burnt the bridge and couldn't be redeemed anyway, so doubling down is the only way.

The truly mind-blowing thing about Arcane to me is that it subverts your expectations both if you don't know LoL lore _and_ if you do know. I went into the show already knowing that Jinx would go crazy, that Vi would team up with Caitlyn, and that Viktor would become a maniacal pro-Zaun cyborg. I also knew that in LoL lore Jinx and Vi/Caitlyn would become arch-enemies, as would Jayce and Viktor. So the big wham moment of the 3rd episode didn't subvert my expectations like it might have for others. But past that point, every single time I _thought_ the show would set the characters into their established game lore relationships, it refused to, in the most fantastically heart-wrenching way possible. Like every time Vi and Jinx clashed, I thought "okay _this_ is the moment they start hating each other". But they _never do._ Even by the final scene of the show it's clear they still love each other. And even more so for Jayce and Viktor! Not only do they not hate each other by the end, but they've even _reconciled!_ And not in a "nothing will ever go wrong again" kind of way, but in a "how long will this last" kind of way, so it doesn't feel cheap at all. God this show is so brilliant.

Gotta agree that Rey's parents twist and the message that one's talent of using the force doesn't reside in genetics or bloodlines but rather yourself which could also be related to our real world is one of the very few good things about the sequel trilogy (even tho even that twist wasn't executed any properly itself)

Subverting my expectations by subverting my expectations for this video. You son-of-a-gun, I'm in! Great video again!

Of coarse Rey could have a "strong character arc", because the writers handed everything to her on a silver platter. She's an almost perfect textbook definition of a 'Mary Sue'. She never had to work for anything, it just appeared when the story required it.

The problem I have with the subversion of Rey's origin in TLJ is that it still results in a highly dissatisfactory and jarring portrayal of the theme it's going for. If Rey's not a "chosen one", then she becomes even less relatable to the audience, because she has demonstrated power and prowess in the Force surpassing that of the actual chosen one from earlier in the franchise - the message can't be "Rey isn't special and regular people can have the Force too" if the entirety of the rest of the story is reinforcing that she is clearly special in every way, and the only other character who is close to being as special as her (Kylo) is descended from a Skywalker. There were two parts of the question around Rey: who are her parents, and how is she so powerful? People assumed answering the first was the same as answering the second, which isn't necessarily true. But still, if the answer to "who are her parents" is "well, her parents don't matter", that still leaves a giant question mark over "how is she so powerful?" Instead of empowering people to feel like they can also be Rey, it pulls the audience out of the story and makes them wonder, "well so she's special just by sheer chance?" That may ring true to real life where there is something to be said for natural talent, but it makes for a deeply unsatisfying story.

THANK YOU! for 2:57-2:58 I have heard next to no one even mention the similarities between the scenes let alone reference it as the rip-off of rebels that it was. Great video as always! Loving your channel.

This is a great video. I just want to make a few comments of my own. The subversion of Luke's character is particularly galling because the most important thing that happened to him happened off screen. As it stood, we knew Luke as the Jedi who doesn't give up. I think you hit all the nails on the head. The thing you say the movie did great is overshadowed by all the detractions. There was actually a good movie in there. Imagine a movie where Poe and Finn are forced to step up after Leia is taken out. Imagine a movie where Rey finds Luke hiding with his students, unwilling to face Ben, because he is unable to perhaps due to responsibilities he has taken for his students? Then the movie is about the nature of accepting responsibility. Hint that maybe Finn has the force and that Rey's parents weren't anyone and you recognize that the force can awaken in anyone.

I didn't care for the sequel trilogy, but I always thought Rise could have stuck the "Rey's parents are nobody" subversion, by revealing she is a clone. Her parents are literally nobody because she didn't have parents. She was made to be a vessel of pure evil. And now her fight for individuality vs destiny would be a similar journey as Luke's in Return.

I think that more than subverting audience's expectacions, it should be more alike to Bong Joon-Ho take when he was promoting Parasite (amazing plot twist btw): "make the movie you want" You stablish characters, settings, themes...and you start playing with it.

When powder had the bomb I was fully prepared to see powder save the day and become an equal member of the group, but then my jaw dropped unironically for the first time in years!! Arcane is so well written and shocking in a good way, I could not believe what had happened and had no idea what was going to happen next. From the start of act 2 I was hooked and could not stop watching it. It was something completely new compared to the avatar the last airbender arc which I love and is always fun to watch (avatar was a really good show that I have seen multiple times and enjoy a lot) But arcane made a new and unique story arc that catches you off guard in a good way, suprising you and carrying you through an emotional roller coaster. All in all arcane will go down as the best video game to tv adaptation in history.

speaking about subverting expectations, just watch Succession if you haven't so, there is a masterclass case of subverting expectations meanwhile respects the audiences' memory.

Being familiar with the lore of Arcane and its characters, I didn't notice any subversion. In fact, I thought it took a long time getting to exactly where I thought it would end up. But that's not really the fault of the show, and more of what I brought into it. Interesting to see how an outsider saw it, and probably why so many people enjoyed it more than I did.

Got disagree the whole anyone can be a Jedi message it already done in the prequels which there are certain sect of people who are force sensitive can be Jedi or Sith the whole message isn’t really uplifting because it already been done.

Great video and breakdown. I knew nothing about Arcane going into it, never played LoL, but the art style caught my eye and my gf and I binged it in 3 days, amazing show.

This is a very interesting take. I guess from the view point of anyone not into the League of Legends lore, Arcane would have subverted your expectations. To those who were engrossed, it was more of a moment of payoff or clarity for how Jinx started. A catalyst of this magnitude would have then been expected. I was personally surprised every time a potential moment for Jinx to be born turned into a relatively ok moment.

Killing snoke was a pretty good subversion of expectations ; the obsession of his origins was sterile, for Kylo it was a great character development and a wonferful setup for the next movie. What a shame it wasn't followed through.

It’s pretty hard to get into any new Star Wars thing now since we know how it ends. Absolutely shitting on beloved characters and destroying everything they stood for, with no hope to change cuz literally every single one of them is dead. Everything they did being absolutely meaningless.

TLJ subverted our expectations by making returning beloved characters look like assholes and idiots. It can even be said with TFA too, it started that. They made Luke transform from not giving up on the most evil man in the galaxy to bring him back to the light, to trying to murder his nephew as soon as he saw a small bit of darkness inside him. Same with Han, TFA undid all of the character development he had in the originals.

I liked the idea that Rey was born of nobodies and that the Force is more of a gray thing. The most compelling scenes was with Kylo Ren knowing this, wanting to go in another direction and offering Rey to join him in seeking that new way. It would have been cool if she did an so much more intriguing to see where it would lead. Arcane's third episode really made me fall in love with the series, because of everything you talked about. I really love Andor not because it's subverting things but showing us things in the SW universe we really weren't aware of, like the sacrifices it took to get the rebel movement going and what people had to do to get an alliance built. It was very gray.

I think one of the key ways that Arcane subverts expectations, also, is that it frequently doesn't subvert *everything* about a particular trope or expectation. We expect Powder to create a bomb that works using the hex crystals, for example. What it subverts is our modern-media-driven predictions of the outcomes. She creates a bomb, it works, it kills a bunch of people and ends up indirectly forcing Vander to die as well to protect Vi, and what's more, it shatters everything we thought we were coming to understand about the scope of the show thus far. Half of the main characters in the Undercity plotline are dead, three episodes in. We don't know what happened to Vi. We don't know what's going to happen to Powder, but we're scared of it because it involves Silco. This is an incredible way to subvert the audiences expectations of the rescue attempt. This also comes right on the heels of the previous episode's predictable trope of Vander turning himself in to protect Vi, which is immediately subverted by horror as everything goes wrong and Vander ends up in far worse hands than Piltover's.

Thanks for the video! This is SO right on, and so important! Don't be like the GoT producers who just got tired of people guessing the story, and go WAY beyond just subverting expectations, completely ruining the last season!

As someone familiar with League of Legends lore (sadly), that moment didn't catch me by surprise as much and didn't realize it would for others. If you played the game you know how everyone turns out eventually and I was constantly waiting for those moments other characters (not in the game) would leave the picture. But the journey getting there was unknown and the show did a great job fleshing out so much from pretty little.

For everyone insisting/screaming that Luke's character was ruined or that he acted contrary to his original characterisation in the original trilogy and that he would never give up on Kylo/Ben merely because he sensed some nebulous darkness in him, I'd like to bring up a couple of points in defence of The Last Jedi's handling of Luke. First, Luke spends the majority of Return of the Jedi attempting to pull his father out of Darth Vader, he repeatedly says that he doesn't want to fight him and that he believes there is still good within him. But there is a moment during their final duel when Luke forgoes attempting to reach Anakin. And it is the moment that Leia is mentioned. The moment Vader mentions that if Luke will not fall to the Dark Side, then perhaps Leia will, Luke loses control. In that moment, he gives in. He embraces the fear, the anger, the hate, he launches an overwhelming series of attacks, he smashes Vader to the ground and slices his arm off. And it is only when Palpatine starts laughing, that Luke comes back to his senses, realises what he has done and is on the verge of doing. He's not just standing at the edge of the abyss, he is about to freefall directly into it. Years later, Luke is in a similar position. He senses the darkness within Ben, a darkness which would lead to the deaths of thousands including his best friend and (seemingly) his sister and in a moment of fear, he draws his lightsaber thinking he can save them. But he doesn't swing it. He takes a moment and realises that once again he is letting fear lead him to the Dark Side. Only this time he doesn't need the additional benefit of Palpatine's mocking laughter ringing in his ears. Second, Luke is a hero to the galaxy. The farmboy that destroyed the Death Star, survived the Battle of Hoth, fought and defeated the right hand of the Emperor, the one to kill the Emperor himself and finally the Master of the newly reformed Jedi. And all this isn't touching upon the expanded universe content which would include his exploits with Rogue Squadron and other adventures. Anyone could let that get to their head. So he founded a new Jedi order. He took his nephew and other potential Jedi, he built a new temple and he began to train them. And by everything in the galaxy, he believed he would succeed. Because he was the Legendary Luke Skywalker. And then he gave into fear for a single moment, and he drove his nephew into the Dark Side. And he didn't just lose his nephew, he saw his nephew return and destroy everything he had attempted to rebuild. And he was left with nothing but the ashes of his failure and all the self-loathing that came with that. Because he was the Legendary Luke Skywalker. Who wouldn't become bitter after that?

One of the most frustrating things about The Last Jedi’s subversions is how Rian Johnson is so clearly thrusting his ego in our faces from start to finish, constantly using his nonsensical twists to say “Ta-da! Look at what an absolute genius I am!”

The worst part is scapping the idea that Finn was a potential love intrest for Rey. Love makes us do irrational and (lets face it) stupid decisions which can be justifed simply on the grounds that you love them. When Finn picked up that lightsaber and faced down Kylo just to save Rey, he didn't do it to face down his previous demons, and he didn't do it to "stick it to the man." He did it because he cared deeply for Rey. He was willing to stand for himself and her because she gave him a reason to fight. Her. She was the reason.

Arcane was brilliantly done

Arcane episode 3 was one instance of me remembering sincerely dropping my jaw for a long time. *Vi is facing Deckard, Milo is still working on Vander's shackles and Claggor is working on the wall* "Come on Powder, I know your bomb can work! " *Vi safely holds Deckard at bay, Milo frees Vander and Claggor opens the way out* "Wait, what? It's working?... Wait a second, then what about the bomb and-?" *THAT happens* "😱😱😱😱😱" Seriously it was glorious.

The short of it is plot twists shouldn't involve lying to the audience. TLJ turned everything we knew about Luke's character into a lie.

I will never get over the complaints of Luke's character in TLJ. Of all the things in the film, the most interesting plot was between Rey, Luke, and Kylo. Y'all haters of Rian's version of Luke need to listen to one of RJ's interviews where he goes into his thought process for how he wrote Luke. You can hear how much he cares about the character and wanted to do what he could to not just do his character justice but add new layers of depth. Star Wars is heavily modeled after Campbell's Hero's journey. What RJ did with Luke is continue Campbell's Hero's journey after they achieve their goal and what you typically do in this regard is to have them lose something in order to build them back up within the framework of your story. RJ literally followed the Campbell formula. George Lucas himself had written and conceptualized some things for his version of an episode 7 and guess what? He does the exact same thing with Luke making him a bitter old hermit with a young ambitious new Jedi who wants to learn from him and he rejects. That's because Lucas is also following Campbell's model as he has been the entire time. The reason y'all hate RJ's version of Luke so much is because of JJ Abrams. TFA is the real reason the sequel trilogy failed because it failed to establish this new world properly, instead opting for weaponizing nostalgia. JJ's obsession with mystery boxes failed this trilogy because he never has any answers for them. So he made Luke a mystery plot MacGuffin instead of actually using and establishing Luke's character and character arc. In what way is it the sequel's responsibility to establish plot details that were set up in the first film? That's bad filmmaking. RJ got the short end of the stick because he made the best film in the trilogy, he cared the most for the characters, he did the most to evolve the franchise, and yet he's hated the most despite TRoS being so unforgivably bad that it's an embarrassment of a film. It's so bad I just don't even consider it canon and never will. In fact because of JJ's poor establishing of Luke's character (in that he DIDN'T) Rian HAD to make Luke's character the way he did and in that interview I referenced he goes through the process of trying NOT to make an out of character Luke but within reason. He's missing throughout the entire first film which has some pretty important things happening and he had to explain why Luke didn't help because that would be out of character. So he goes through explanations. He says he can't have been capture because he should still be powerful enough to be dangerous. He'd have to be disconnected from the force otherwise he would have felt Han's death and the destruction of several planets, and the rising of the dark side and he would have gone into action. He has to be there isolated by choice and he has to be convinced that what he's doing is the right thing. Yet you think he intentionally ruined Luke's character when he was limited by JJ's failure to even establish his character or character arc. Every single one of you people who hate on Luke's character arc in TLJ always say the same things yet conveniently ignore established lore. When Luke tosses his lightsaber, y'all hated on it like Luke would never.... Excuse me but what was the last thing you saw Luke do with a lightsaber? When he decides to be passive and put down his weapon, he tosses it like it's garbage. The idea that a lightsaber should be respected by Jedi is severely out of character for the Jedi. For one they are simply tools and tools of defense. While a lightsaber may be unique to each Jedi they are not meant to be worshipped or something. Luke has always never really given a shit about his lightsabers. Remember how he lost Anakin's lightsaber in Ep8 and no one said shit about it? Then he shows up with a brand new saber he constructed himself and at the end, tosses it like scrap. You say that's out of character for Luke? Lol. Well your wrong. He never gave a shit about that lightsaber. And he doesn't want to fight. He put down his weapon as a Jedi should. The next complaint is what happens between him and his nephew. And again y'all always say the same thing. Luke is the guy who saw the good in Vader and turned him so he would never even think about hurting his nephew.... Guys... y'all know damn well what it took for Luke to achieve that. Like I know y'all know the ending of ep 6. Like right before Luke saves his father he literally cut him to pieces in a furious rage and nearly killed him and was literally on the cusp of turning to the dark side. Hamill is literally making the same face during the Ben scene as he did when he cut Vader down. Luke would never hurt his family member? The entirety of the original trilogy is about everyone trying to get Luke to kill his own father and he nearly succeeds. Even in the context of RJ's script he still only for a split second reacted tohis vision and you say it's out of character for Luke to defend his loved ones? Luke literally says it during the flashback. He said he saw the destruction of everything and everyone he loved at the hands of his nephew. And what does Luke do when you threaten his friends and family? Can you reference the original trilogy for me? That's right, every time his loved ones are threatened he response with emotional rage and immediately comes to their defense without thinking. Luke losing his shit for a split second is totally normal. Why do you guys think Luke should be a flawless character? Flawless characters are boring. What RJ did with his core cast of characters was challenge them in the most difficult way possible. You think Poe was mischaracterized? Lol. Okay tell me what his characterization is in TFA? He's simply described as the best pilot in the resistance. He's brave and brash. and that's it. We see him outside his cockpit only a few times and otherwise he's piloting an X-Wing. So with his only character trait being "the best pilot" RJ takes away his X-Wing to force more characterization from him,\. Yeah he's a good pilot but is he a good leader? RJ's simply adds much needed depth to his character. Rey is characterized by her mysterious parentage. If that's the most important thing about her character then the most difficult thing for her to deal with is being a nobody in this story. It forces her to be her own character. Finn didn't seem to exist separate from Rey in TFA. He had a weird obsession with her. But he also doesn't have an arc in TFA. Yes a common theme in TFA is that no character has an actual character arc except Kylo. Finn doesn't end up fighting for the Resistance because he cares about their cause. He only joined with them to save Rey. So RJ had to give him a reason to fight and since he was tied by the hip to Rey, RJ separates them for the entire film. Luke is most known for turning Vader back from the dark side. The most difficult thing for Luke to deal with is inadvertently creating another Vader within his family. Kylo is meant to invoke Vader but has a temper. So RJ gets rid of the helmet because letting Adam Driver emote in his scenes is far better than covering up his face and does what Vader couldn't and supplants his master which was the most interesting thing to do with Kylo because he was literally just another Vader and we need something different. These are not easy writing decisions to make. These are decisions made by someone who cares about the characters they are writing. They are challenging to a writer and he did more than a commendable job, he actually made it work cohesively and on top of that threaded each side plot into the main narrative where all plots intersect at the end in a natural way. A feat in and of itself. None of the other films in the sequel trilogy are as narratively tight and engaging as RJ's TLJ. Not all of it works. It's not a perfect film but for the sequel trilogy, it's the most well made one of the three. It's the only one that tells a complete story. Sorry for the long post. If you got this far, thanks for coming to my TED talk

The twist that Rey's parents is not only a good twist for the statement it makes about who can be Jedi, but it also fits in fantastically in the scene itself. Rey is just like Kylo, looking for a place to belong. In saying this, followed by his offer to take his hand in joining him, is providing both him and her a purpose outside of this war. And for a moment, she almost takes it. I'm not saying that twist where she joins him would fix the movie but God would it have been better than what we got

When it comes to subverting expectations, there's literally no other show that will throw natural plot twist after plot twist like the ATTACK ON TITAN anime It still blows my mind thinking about how wrong we all were in sn 1

You explained everything perfectly, with one exception; the changes made to Star Wars were done because Kennedy actually hates the franchise and everything about it but also knows it will still make money no matter what she twists it into. Luke's character assassination was not only deliberate it was done specifically to the fans the finger.

I think k how you describe the arcane twist can be described with tlj too or really any expectation subversion. What really separates as was kinda pointed out is luke is a character lot of us grew up loving and cheering along who got his hard earned happy ending. Putting a twist to that kind of character is frankly kind of dumb. But it works fine with characters we don't have decades of attachment to. Which is why arcane works. It doesn't have a multimedia generational presence like star wars. Frankly I found both just fine stories without that context... I'm personally tired of twists for the sake of shock value.

I have never (and probably will never) played League of Legends, so I had no idea what I was getting into with Arcane. I didn’t know the characters, world, or any of the lore. So with the first few episodes, I was expecting the plot of plucky street rat children going what they could to survive of some shit. I was absolutely not expecting what happened. Phenomenal.

Less than a thousand likes? This video is underrated af

Arcane subversion is so great because it bombs the meta expectations based on watching hundreds of shows. SW subversion is bad because it twists the internal logic of the story in most awkward and crude way possible.

I feel that like most people, you misread Last Jedi. Remember that scene in Return of the Jedi when Palpatine was trying to goad Luke on and Luke lost his composure and was just kind of wailing on Vader until Luke realized what he was doing? Remember how he responded to that? He tossed his lightsaber away and refused to keep fighting. And in Empire Strikes back, when Luke goes into the cave during his jedi training and sees a vision of himself becoming Darth Vader, what does he do? He balks, horrified, and soon abandons his training. So then, how is it "so out of character to the point of character assassination" that when he tried to revive the jedi order and saw the pattern of it falling to the dark side threaten repeating, he pulled away (like he's verifiably done before)? And no, he did not just label his nephew as irredeemable and try to kill him on a whim, he only lit the lightsaber in a moment of pure reflexive indistinct- which he immediately regretted before Ben had even noticed. Sure, it was a weak motive for such a plot-critical moment and Luke shouldn't have had such a quick trigger finger for someone wanting to bring jedi back to their mystical spiritualism roots as opposed to the paramilitary they were in the prequels, but that wasn't your criticism. If you're going to criticize the film, make valid criticisms.

i think it was kinda jj abrams fault for not utilizing luke earlier and setting it up for ryan. if he would have not put luke into hiding but instead introduced him as a hero they couldn’t undo that.

I agree completely about Rey, and if that was the only thing Johnson subverted, it likely would have been a lot less divisive.