Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. Transcript: lexfridman.com/john-mearsheimer-transcript 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Notion: notion.com - ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/lexpod to get 3 months free - InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off - Eight Sleep: www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - AG1: drinkag1.com/lex to get 1 month supply of fish oil 1:29 - Power 24:43 - Hitler 42:09 - Russia and Ukraine 1:38:22 - Israel and Palestine 2:39:13 - China 3:21:34 - Life and mortality

Finally Lex has someone on in regards to foreign policy who isn’t a neocon. It’s about time, there’s so many other world views for foreign affairs that have been missed.

Please bring back John Mearsheimer for another four hours IMMEDIATELY! Wow you two, I can't express in words how much I loved this conversation, and am eternally grateful for expanding my perspective on so many things!

This is the highest resolution in which I saw Mearsheimer. Plus, awesome audio quality. I thank your staff for both!

What a legend - so many people would have read Mearsheimer in university and it's great to hear from him in a long format interview.

Loved this guys intellectual honesty. Instead of disagreeing outright, he will go "well, in order to make that argument, you have to argue for X". This kind of devils advocism is really important to honest discourse imo.

I could listen to Mr. Mearsheimer discuss foreign policy all day.

Thank you for also putting in all the data and news articles whenever he brought up a point.

Lex Fridman you have a great talent for interviewing your guests, intelligent, well thought out questions that invoke a relaxed atmosphere were your guests can open up and speak freely without having to be defensive.

Before I even watch this, let me say I appreciate you for having Prof. Mearsheimer. He is a legend and I'm always interested in what he has to say. Thank you Lex. Stay true to yourself.

The images during the video are super! Really amazing your interviews! keep them coming

I hope, there are going to be discussions on this highly respectful and intellectual level on tv soon too. Minimum emotions, maximum objectivity. Thank you so much, Lex. You do a great job.

Thank you for these points of view. This conversation is very interesting and helps me understand the state of our world.

Mearsheimer is probably one of the most realistic analyst of global geopolitics, especially with the Russia-Ukraine War. Really look forward to his participation in more podcasts across platforms

Get Thomas Sowell before it’s too late: he’s a legend and he’s 93! An American treasure!

We are fortunate to benefit from John's ability to rationally deduce geopolitical happenings. Thank you gentlemen.

Thank you Lex for this amazing interview ! Thanks for a decent , intelligent, respectful conversation. Thanks for not interrupting your guest and respecting his knowledge, views and opinions.. Subscribed ..

This is probably the best long format UKposts video I seen in years.

Thank you both for this great conversation, I really enjoyed it. As a native Chinese, I found the argument from Prof. Mearsheimer of "we cannot let China dominant Asia as the way America dominat the west hemisphere" hard to agree with. I can understand it from a US hegemony perspective. But is a US uni-polar world better than a multi-polar world? I think we need to learn how to co-exist with each other.

I love how lex has a soft voice and remains totally calm, allows the hosts to talk without interruption and asks great questions 💗 just like Nima alkorshid and Danny boy hiaphong, I love youze guys ❤🎉

You are a hero for using your platform to encourage love and truth. Most people in this world don't have the balls.

И я люблю вас всех.Очень люблю умных и образованных людей.Спасибо вам за глубокий об --зор сегодняшней обстановки в мире .❤Спасибо за вашу лекцию.❤

A breath of fresh air in these troubled times! Love these conversations!

I gotta say... This has to be one of my very favorites. I could listen to this guy talk all day! Woke up to this playing and couldn't go back to sleep because it was so interesting. 3 hours later...

00:00 🌍 John Mearsheimer emphasizes the importance of power in international relations and how states seek power for survival due to the absence of a higher authority in the global system. 02:33 📈 Power in international relations is largely determined by population size and wealth, with these factors underpinning a state's strength. 05:31 🌐 Anarchy in international politics refers to the absence of a higher authority above states, leading them to maximize relative power for survival. 09:26 🤝 Nations strive for power to ensure security, not necessarily aggression, driven by historical examples like the Century of National Humiliation in China. 12:26 🌐 Realism versus liberalism in international relations: Realists focus on power, competition, and war as instruments of statecraft, while liberals have more optimistic views, emphasizing aspects like democratic peace theory, economic interdependence, and institutions for peaceful coexistence. 16:44 🏛 Democratic peace theory suggests that democracies tend not to fight each other due to shared norms and values, while realists argue that structural dynamics, not democracy, drive state behavior. 18:45 💰 Economic interdependence theory posits that economic ties between nations deter war, yet realists assert that security concerns often override economic interests in conflicts. 19:44 📜 Liberal institutionalism proposes that rule-based institutions can promote peace, contrasting with realist notions that survival trumps prosperity in critical situations. 23:13 🤔 Realist divisions include structural realists (focus on system) vs. human nature realists (emphasis on individual psychology) and within structural realism, the distinction between offensive (seeking power) and defensive (maintaining power) realists. 25:11 🌐 Structural considerations heavily influenced Nazi Germany's aggressive behavior, highlighting the interplay between structural factors and individual leadership (e.g., Hitler's "will to power"). 27:07 🇩🇪 Factors like resentment over the Versailles Treaty played a role in Hitler's rise to power, showcasing the complex interplay between historical grievances, individual psychology, and international conflicts. 28:02 🌐 Hitler's rise to power was influenced by factors such as resentment, economic depression, and his ability to pull Germany out of the Great Depression. 30:31 🌍 Structural elements drove significant historical events, like Hitler's actions in World War II, but history is multidimensional, involving various aspects beyond mere individuals. 31:56 🛠 Realism in international relations theory answers key questions about security competition and great power wars but doesn't explain every aspect, like the specifics behind events like the Holocaust. 34:24 🤔 Hitler's decisions in World War II had resistance internally within Germany, especially concerning the invasion of Poland and France, contrasting with the less oppositional decision to invade the Soviet Union. 36:29 🏹 Hitler's strategy involved various axis points in different directions during World War II, emphasizing the importance of different approaches and target regions. 39:27 🔍 Soviet Union's fierce resistance against Nazi Germany was driven by the genocidal nature of the adversary and the understanding that surrender meant death, motivating them to fight fiercely. 42:27 🕊 Putin's invasion of Ukraine in 2022 wasn't necessarily about conquering all of Ukraine, but primarily a response to NATO expansion into Ukraine, as evidenced by negotiation attempts to end the conflict soon after it began. 48:11 ⚔ NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe, particularly Ukraine, despite Russia's objections, significantly contributed to the conflict and tensions between Russia and the West. 51:31 🌍 The West's strategy aimed to make Ukraine a pro-Western democratic state within NATO and the EU, which clashed with Russia's security concerns and led to a dire situation. 52:57 🛡 Putin doesn't aspire to recreate the Soviet Union but prioritizes Russia's security, particularly regarding NATO's proximity to Russian borders. His primary concern is to prevent NATO expansion into Ukraine. 56:24 🌍 Putin faced a challenging period of national humiliation for Russia, and it took time to rebuild the country's strength. 57:51 🛡 The US held significant power from 1989 to 2017, remaining the strongest global player. 58:49 🇷🇺 Russians' historical experiences with invasions make them sensitive about Ukraine's proximity to their border. 59:18 🌐 Strategists need empathy to understand others' perspectives in international politics. 01:00:14 🤝 Putin's perception of NATO expansion differs from the US's benign view, impacting their reactions. 01:02:47 💔 Prospects for a meaningful peace agreement in Ukraine appear dim, frozen conflict likely. 01:04:55 🤔 Direct talks between Zelensky and Putin might have a sliver of a chance without US involvement. 01:08:30 💡 Potential solutions involve Ukraine's neutrality and accepting Russia's territorial gains. 01:13:02 🕊 Trust issues from failed agreements hinder the possibility of successful negotiations. 01:17:58 🔄 Removing Putin won't likely lead to a more peaceful resolution in Ukraine; a replacement might be more hardline. 01:20:36 🎙 Asking Putin direct, specific questions might reveal insights into his perspectives and intentions. 01:24:38 🚀 Deterrence Strategy: Mearsheimer argues that possessing nuclear weapons serves as a powerful deterrent, especially for weaker nations like Ukraine against potential adversaries. 01:25:36 🌍 NATO and Ukraine: Mearsheimer criticizes NATO expansion and argues against bringing Ukraine into NATO, foreseeing its destruction. He suggests that stability in Europe is better served by avoiding such actions. 01:26:35 💣 Nuclear Weapons Use: In a MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) world, Mearsheimer discusses the potential use of nuclear weapons for manipulation of risk and as a demonstration effect. He explains historical Cold War scenarios and speculates on Russia's potential use in a conflict with Ukraine. 01:32:28 🌐 Rapid Escalation: The conversation delves into the terrifying dynamics of nuclear weapon use in the modern age, considering the fast-paced nature of news, social media, and how a small demonstration of power can lead to unpredictable and catastrophic consequences. 01:38:34 🇮🇱🇵🇸 Israel-Palestine Conflict: Mearsheimer attributes the October 7th, 2023, Hamas attack to the ongoing Israeli occupation. He discusses the diminishing prospects of a two-state solution due to increased Israeli resistance and loss of interest, emphasizing the need for peace in the region. 01:46:52 🕊 Conflict and Leadership: Mearsheimer dismisses the notion that those in power benefit from conflict, asserting that Israeli leaders prefer submission over resistance. He underscores the importance of achieving a two-state solution for lasting peace.

@lexfridman Hello Mr. Friedmann. Thank you for this and other interviews you've already made. You're bringing more understanding and peace to this world with help of your guests. Is there going to be a german Version of it? Greetings from Germany😊

John is literally the most interesting and articulate storyteller

" …if that’s your definition of antisemitism, it’s taken an important term and stretched it to the point where it’s meaningless “ . That’s a great way to put how Israel and the US government is using the term

Mearsheimer owes me a full night's sleep--which I lost as a result of listening to this interview into the morning. Worth every minute. It's funny how you can forget what it's like to listen to or read a thinker who has knowledge, wisdom and the rare ability to communicate clearly.

also thoroughly enjoyed seeing such a good man think together with you, Lex. Many thanks for this great iluminating conversation.

Lex you are a Giant amongst Minnows I think you are 1 of the best persons in our world your smart compassionate and very strong you Rock bro I,m Danny from Austrailia

John Mearsheimer in my opinion, is a delightful, very intelligent, Human Being!!

What a great dialogue. An hour in, you can see that Professor Mearsheimer is having way more fun talking with Lex than doing one of his usual Q&A sessions after a lecture. And the interjected visuals---maps, graphs, and especially the quotes from the Minsk Accords liars---added immensely. Phenomenal podcast.

Absolutely love this way of listening to a person... I have learned so much by your conversations and am truly captivated by each of your guests. Sincerely grateful for all that you do!

3:26:27 well, I really love you two guys. So much enjoyed your talk. Greetings from Vienna, still not lost.

I listened to this podcast twice.. my goodness i was longing for an extreme objective human online. What high intellectual conversation

Phenomenon reportage...been on replay during my entire work day. Please continue with this endeavour

Thank you for your work ❤️‍🔥

Your guest ohs truly informed, fair and tells it as is. You should have more guests like this gentleman.

great convo, John Mearsheimer is intellectually honest and his realism is refreshing

Please bring Prof. Stephen Kotkin and Prof. John Mearsheimer to your podcast for a debate. I think it will be extremely informative and interesting two see opposing views (especially on the Russia-Ukraine front) collide!

The people need to unite. Rise up & demand peace. What a concept

Вступительные слова - великие..! Уже за это спасибо, Lex 🙏

People don't want to hear different opinion, they just want to listen someone else confirming their own opinion. Freedom of speech is hard. Thank you Lex for your sacrifice to freedom of speech. You bring hope, love and opportunity to grow to all people who listen to you. At the same time, I am worried about you. After having this brave professor as your guest, I wouldn't be surprised if they cancel you. I love you, you beautiful human, you are not alone. In collective unconscious we are all one.

So pleasant to listen to an articulate, very well read and non-aggressive person like Mearsheimer.

This is an impressive interview. Third time listening to it and it is still objective as well as accurate - its April

Just amazing. 3 hours to enjoy.

Lex, I'm continually impressed with your ability to have belief in humanity and the way you conduct yourself in these discussions. You are definitely one of a kind. Having people of exactly opposite views without you showing preference and bias is really applaudable.

I love all the added illustrations, articles and sources added throughout, over the guest speaking. Great episode.

great show , very interesting discussion the 3 hours felt like 3 minutes to me

Lex Great Podcast!!!!! What a Wonderful guest in John Mearsheimer!!! He is a very Wise individual that has very good perspective of the World Governments and social dynamics around the World 🌎 Lex great questions and great 👍🏼 interview!!!!!! God Bless You 🙏🏽❤️🙏🏽

Sooo true. Love your honesty, bravery and humanity. Keep it up sir. Our society needs more people of your stature to speak to the truth… regardless of the labeling and consequence.

Surprising, after 400 epiodes Lex just found John Mearsheimer!

Миршаймер - толковый, редкость в наше время , глубокий и проницательный человек, рассудительный и наполнен мудростью у многих которой ее не хватает ))

Definitely have this man back

Потрясающая беседа. Профессор великолепен в своем глубоком видении картины Мира! ❤

Hard topics, light hearted final moments, then the Plato quote to sum. I really enjoyed it all and found value in so much of the discussion. You do a great job Lex.

This is the type of journalism that the world is currently lacking amidst this chaotic environment, thanks Lex 🙏🙏🙏🙏

This has been the most intelligent conversation I’ve heard about the wars we’re navigating. This is the kind of real conversations that can make a difference in this complicated world. As the daughter of a holocaust survivor every cell in me is crying out for all the lives being lost because of pride, miscommunication and dogma. Thank you Lex for creating a platform for these conversations.

This is my second time watching this podcast. I hope listening to this and commenting does not go against thought police.

For 3 hours and 26 minutes I've not skipped a bit of this interview 👍👏

Thank you Lex and Dr. Mearsheimer for bringing this conversation to the world. Truly inspiring. So many ideas to unpack after listening to you both.

Okay, John Mearsheimer, this man seems to be really intelligent. He remembers everything exactly what he said like an hour ago point by point and brings them up when wise to do so, like a man holding down cards in a poker game when looking at them once. Lex gives him an argument, John knows and sees that Lex is way far too optimistic, he manages to put everything into context of that "optimistic" opinion and show the realism of that opinion. Lex keeps repeating questions in different forms but John manages repeat his previous answer in a different form and in the end saying like "like i said it before regarding this or that ... ". Really impressive guy.

This was an eye opener

Miersheimer is such a great speaker and one of the best thinkers on modern international relations. He just makes sense

In 2004, I was stationed in Tashkent and was watching a television program of a Russian news anchor interviewing a German journalist about the American election coming up. They both lamented that Americans were too stupid to vote for the most powerful man in the world. “The average American does not understand what’s going on in the world and they don’t even care to try and understand. They only worry about themselves.” This apathy, coupled with bad diplomatic and economic policy creates heartache all over the world. I fear they were right. Videos like this one should have millions of views and likes by now. Press on Lex. You are doing an important service to your adopted country.

Thank you for a great podcast , full of great questions and answers

I very much enjoyed this interview. Also, I appreciate Lex Fridman’s style of respecting his guest and letting them fully answer his questions. Another thing, Lex Fridman always seems to be prepared but can make room for the unexpected. Lex Fridman is a respectful, courteous, and professional interviewer. I think Lex Fridman may be a bit idealistic and maybe just a bit naive at times, but these are hardly threatening qualities and, as I said, show in small amounts. Dr. Mearsheimer is brilliant and a trove of knowledge. I greatly enjoyed hearing his thoughts in this interview. I may have to read one of his books now.

As someone whose main focus is on power dynamics and how power enforces the currents of life, John Mearsheimer is really interesting to listen to. He has a unique style when approaching such subjects, with an unapologetic attitude that helps get his point across.

Mearsheimer has an incredibly discerning mind. I'm continually impressed by the caliber of guests and the quality, nuance, and intellectual depth, of conversations on your channel, Lex. Lex is a fantastic interviewer on account of his intellectual humility. He doesn't seem intent on pushing a particular narrative, but lets his guests speak freely, something rarely seen in mainstream media these days.

This dude is so calm and watches everything so close!?? OMG

Thank you awesome conversation

One of your best interviews ever Lex 🙌🏻. John just blew me away intellectually.

Thanks for democratizing intellectual discussion at a higher level than what is out there in the red ocean of internet media

This was one of the greatest podcasts I've ever come across. Great work Lex. Thanks.

To była mądra i ekscytująca rozmowa. Życzenia zdrowia dla obu panów . Uczta intelektualna. Pozdrowienia z Polski.

I've listened to Mearsheimer maybe couple of dozen times now......this was the most funfamental in the elucidation of his position because of the long length. Lex did a reasonable job in the questioning, even if occasionally on the naive side (which is fine, no judgement). The strength of Lex is fundamentally the length of conversation he encourages, ne rarely interjects, and he has people of opposing views. Now that's a pretty strong list of positives in my mind. Top episode. Will probably be one of the most important in its influence.

Excellent guest ! One of the most intelligent level-headed and straightforward thinking people I think I've ever had the privilege of listening to. thank you both ❤

Great interview 👍. Thanks!

Thank you very much! Большое вам спасибо! ❤

When Mearsheimer visited Chinese universities in Beijing in 2019, I was there, I can confirm he truly was a rock star

I enjoyed listening to John so much. Full of so much wisdom and has good energy. I’d love to sit down with him and pick his brain, i’m 26 years old and I always learn something new from my elders, I also seem to have the best conversations with those older than me.

Thanks for the great guest and great topic!

Great discussion, refreshing to listen to such high discourse.

I just started listening to Lex. I believe he is amazing! This is the first one I listened to and I am still blown away. Keep going Lex. We need more people to watch you! Peace and Love Brother!

As always, Mearsheimer is a clear, rational thinker and I don't even agree with everything he says, particularly with respect to China. Thanks for hosting him, we can never get enough of his wisdom.

Nice kind intro. I appreciate your integrity and passion.

Este señor es un verdadero académico comprometido con la verdad. Siento un gran respeto por el señor Mearsheimer

"If wars can be started by LIES, Peace can be started by TRUTH." - Julian Assange.

Lex, what I love about your range of speakers is that they trigger me to ask myself, “What do *I* think about this subject,” rather than passively listening to a speaker who echos my preexisting thoughts.

This man should be part of every US administration period

Prof. is quite easy to listen to and his presentations are good.

About time, good to see this interview with John. Now lets have Norman Finkelstine.

An excellent guest to challenge one's assumptions, presumptions, prejudices and beliefs. Thanks Lex, John.

Большое больше спасибо за русский язык, Лекс! Переводи все свои видео, тк машинный (ML) перевод не очень. 🇷🇺🇷🇺 Привет из Москвы, ждем в гости

My 3rd time watching this. Extremely impressive and important interview

Wow, three hours with John Mearsheimer! Way to go, Lex.

one of the most level headed commentators on international affairs ,a privilege to listen to you both,thankyou Lex..

Lex, you're such a wonderful man. May the gods love thee and keep thee always. Very very good interview, as always.

Lex, I was touched by your words in the introduction. For what it’s worth, Lex, I love you too. 💕🌎☮️🌈🇵🇸