For all the problems of the modern world, the fact that I can so easily listen in on a conversation between two minds such as Penrose and Peterson makes me feel blessed.

Despite being a brilliant mathematician, Nobel laureate physicist, worldly acclaimed academic, I love how willing Sir Roger is to say "I don't know"

He is 90 years old and he is talking about advanced physics. That is another level of badass!

What I LOVE about this talk is that questions are asked, they listen intently to each other until they have a good understanding, then there is answer. Nobody is getting self-righteous, or annoyed. THIS, my friend, is GREAT conversation!

Never thought I would understand Dr. Penrose's answer more than Dr. Peterson's questions.

i appreciate peterson's courage to ask blindly in a field not his own. you can see a childlike eagerness and curiosity to know more.

Although the interview flapped during the first part, and the guest is aware of it, annoyed by the questions, the conversation improves when he speaks of his memories and experiences, but he is misunderstood or asked questions that do not relate to his field. He is strictly about physics, a genius! I thoroughly enjoyed listening to him towards the end, I think that we all learned a lot from this interview, including Peterson. We don't know what we don' t know.

Thirty years ago when I was in grad school (physics), a philosophy professor asked me to lunch to discuss a concept that was bothering him. He asked about a statement he read that a photon feels no time. Watching this discussion I'm fascinated that Jordan seems to have focused on the same concept. The discussion ended up covering many aspects of physics and beyond. It was obviously memorable.

After quitting my philosophy studies in university 10 years ago because I was bored out of my skull most of the time, I didn‘t think I would ever get this excited about a 100 minute long recording of 3 older men in a poorly lit room discussing intellectual topics.

I enjoy how careful and precise Roger Penrose is to make an erroneous connection between two seemingly related topics. As a physicist, he is concerned with the facts and reality, it is very much the case that two physics concepts are in fact very different, or else they would only require one law. He is concerned utmost with being factually correct, so as not to undermine his existing body of work and his own credibility as a Nobel Prize-winning scientist. Contrary, Peterson plays with the framework of ideas, he draws the gist out of incredibly complicated ideas from many different fields and tries to refine his mental representations by adding similar examples, very Feynman method-like, and an example of multi-modal analysis. Jordan aims to find universal truths that can be reached across multiple levels of analysis from different fields, despite not specializing or understanding the finer mechanics of those fields. This interview very much demonstrated the Harris vs. Peterson divide on the definition of truth. Penrose takes this as empirical, whereas Jordan is more open to metaphorical and narrative truths.

Simply wonderful. Thank you very very much. It is an immense pleasure to hear Sir Roger giving clear answers, as "No" or "I don't know"

I never imagine myself getting interested in this topic even though I flunked out of college. Sir Roger is Amazing

First time I have heard Jordan sound more like the child rather than the father. Great conversation. Was nice to see Jordan's child like curiosity come out. Penrose is "off the scale" intelligent.

Dr. Peterson’s humility is refreshing. Never afraid to put his ideas out there. He is acutely aware of other points of view and and willing to adapt and refine his ideas. Always learning and progressing.

Thank you for this interview, so many references. Abundance of knowledge, yet so concise. Bless you all.

Understanding is something which requires consciousness... This is such a great relief in whole podcast. Thanks Roger. 😊

I am so thankful that people like me can have access to this kind of thought provoking and educational discussions between people of great merit like Roger and Jordan. What a privilege and blessing. I feel so fortunate.

This guy is 91 years old. To maintain this level of mental wherewithal and wit in his advanced age is any thinking persons dream.

Roger clearly explained his position in the first few moments, and they spent another 20 mins trying to understand it

I am absolutely glued.. I need this knowledge snd opinions and all of it... Jordan Peterson, you are the best therapist I've ever had. You will be remembered for your fight for truth when the world tried to bury ethics in medicine and science. You are leading a war against corruption by using compassion and logic. This is a direct example of knowledge being the true power. Continue to be like water flowing over rocks until they wear down to sand. We love you and your amazing family. 🤍

I’m not an academic but for some reason listening and watching this discussion made my heart sing. Pure joy for me. Thank you to you BOTH!

My admiration and love to Roger Penrose after this conversation have increased , he has so an incredible and humble mind. My blessings to him.

thanks ! Sir Penrose is a calm, brilliant man in Physics and a paradigm of applying Platonic thinking. Math related to higher forms. TThanks Dr Peterson for participating on behalf of consciousness,

What a wonderful discussion. Jordan, if this Jordan could turn up to every meeting and every discussion you had … your ability to influence the world would expand by an order of magnitude. What a lovely Jordan to be in the presence of. So it’s to know he is always there … and how can we get how can we get him to always be there.

I am going to sit through this and pretend I understand every word of it.

Jordan and Roger were definitely talking past each other on several occasions, meaning the same thing but using a different type of language. Still a great conversation to listen to. Two of my heroes talking to each other.

This is probably one of the most amazing videos I have watched in a long time. I have pondered the existence of the universe since I was a child, and I have hypothesized the exact thoughts Penrose spoke of near the end of this video. I have thought of both the expanding and collapsing theory and the this continual theory many times. I could not put it into mathematical or scientific language as Penrose did though. This is amazing, thank you.

This is delightful. I could listen to these two forever.

I've never seen Dr Jordan Peterson so on the edge of his seat, asking questions and getting excited to hear what will be said or explained. I think it shows the true nature of Sir Roger Penrose' intelligence, and knowledge in general on these subjects. And just how interesting a subject it is.

Penrose is brilliant. He is wonderfully straight forward, intelligent and unpretentious.

It's extremely hard to have a casual chat with a top physicist I suppose, he'll constantly ask you to clarify or correct you :). Nice interview, thank you!

We can't REALLY understand Einstein without sir Roger Penrose.... 92 years so sharp, unbelievable. amazing. thanks, brilliant one .🙌❤️🌠

If you take a step back and look at this moment objectively, it is so beautiful and what a privilege it is to be alive at a time where this conversation was both possible, as well as documented for us to watch for free. This conversation could have just as easily never manifested itself for an endless, countless slew of reasons...but it did. Thank you, Dr. Peterson.

Peterson's openness is on display here. A few of the connections he makes across domains don't land, but some do, and they enrich the conversation

I’ve been looking all over for this talk,Much Gratitude for those Who posted this.💐

Mr. Peterson... What a privilege to be engage in such a varied and deep discussion and privilege for me to observe. But...! Listening to Sir Roger's words, tone and observing his demeanour, I cannot help but think that he has some thoughts about some subjects that he decided not to mention. I am sure those thoughts would have been just as intriguing and potentially controversial. This was an excellent discussion that has challenged me to find a connection between all that was discussed in this video and the spiritual realm... Never stop thinking.

Imagine being in a presence of Sir Penrose and Jordan Peterson... Its like watching your heart and brain having a discussion

Aren't we all so fortunate to be able to listen in and watch a conversation like this?

This is gold! I am so glad and grateful I found this content💖

Just started listening! Man this is an intense exchange. I am so glad to be able to listen to it.

And just like that, Dr Peterson casually drops a conversation of a lifetime... As I was listening to Sir Roger's explanation of his model of the universe, man, awe and gratitude were the only things in my mind. Once again, thank you for everything, Dr Peterson.

I'm so happy Sir Roger Penrose dedicated some of his precious time to have this discussion with Jordan Peterson! Considering the huge popularity of the latter, it sure will bring questions about physics, cosmology and the "hard problem of consciousness" to a large audience, which is great. More discussions like this one. More!

I felt like Peterson was outside of his wheelhouse (and said as much) when it came to quantum physics and general relativity and he spent a lot of time trying to find psychological and physiological comparisons at the beginning. I really did enjoy his explanation of his theory of the cosmos! (Einstein’s mistake part, onward) The end of infinite expansion (photon soup) is equivalent to the beginning of the expansion (also a photon soup). Very interesting! I really can’t believe Jordan gave up the thread at that point - that’s where my interest really peaked. Roger lives with cosmological timelines in his head; where the Milky Way black hole collides with Andromeda and another observer confirms his hypotheses in the next eon. Jordan’s focus on consciousness and human realizations seemed a bit too meta-physically vague for Roger. The hunt for meaning is such a small subset in his bath of mathematical truths in the cosmos. I think for him, meaning = objects + rules / spacetime

When Penrose really gets going he's a wizard.and very eloquent.

Truly grateful to Dr. Penrose and Dr. Peterson and Dr. Blackwood for making the conversation happen, and to all the people for their work in making it publicly accessible.

We need more people like Penrose! He is really thinking outside the box. He doesn't put assumptions on all the things he learned, like many smart people still do. We need more people like him, who is curious and ask the right questions. He truly knows where the black spots are in our knowledge. He points them out clearly. We are watching a genious of our time. 200 years from now he will be known because he was one of the few who understood how little we know and where we should look

Penrose seems to be exercising every bit of physically conscious patience in this interview.

I love Jordans profound curiosity for life experiences…consciousness, where the mind is and so on human behaviors

This man's mind is a goldmine, and it needs to be mined completely before hes gone. Long live Sir Roger Penrose, one of the greatest minds alive today.

Oh what privilege we have as a society that we can listen to the conversation of such gentlemen. What a privilege to be able to rewind and play it back as well.

This is a great conversation between two of the greatest minds in recent history! Wonderful!😊👍

So engaging. Two famous people who are discussing weighty subjects of great importance - and BOTH are acknowledging their "don't know" perspective. Great video.

This is the type of discussion that gives me a huge amount of hope for the future. The audience is pulled along for a ride and respected, not belittled. It says this topic is serious and should be respected, and the audience deserves to hear what has to be said. So often the corporate press treats the audience as though they are children and give them watered down version of what is to be said. This is not the case in this instance.

Damn this man is sharp for his age. My granddad (bless his soul) only got to live to the age of 79 and in his last 3 years he deteriorated to such a degree that he couldn't function at all. It was sad to witness. Sir Penrose is 90 now (almost 91) and he talks about stuff in a very clear way which most adults aren't able to do. Amazing.

Yes Dr. Jordan Peterson. Thank you for this important episode. Brilliant

Dr Jordan gradually realizes how smart and intimidating the presense of this man is. He gradually adjusted the conversation from the colleague tone to being a good and engaging student. It takes a lot of humility and self awareness to do this on the spot on camera. Many healthy cognitive functions interacted to produce this. I would say Ti + Ne + Si + Fe stack.

It’s interesting to see Sir Roger tame Dr. Peterson in his eagerness to understand the questions he’s asking him. You can clearly see that Penrose is the teacher and Peterson is the student here. You can tell he is so excited just listening and learning from him.

This is one of the best interviews i've seen with Sir Roger (and i've seen many, one of which in person), becuase Dr Peterson is not afraid to ask questions and to request more detailed explainations. He is not afraid to say he didn't understand. Many other interviewers just do not not dare, because they don't want to look stupid, as if failing to understand Sir Roger's 5 dimensional chess arguments on the first take would in any way make you stupid. Bravo to Dr Peterson here.

Such a great podcast! Thanks for sharing!

Just like with Jordans biblical lectures I could listen to this 10 times and learn new things. Thank you Mr Peterson for everything you do.

A fascinating conversation which seems to me to reveal more about the participants' thought process than the subject itself. Peterson continually pushes to abstract more concepts out of another, and Penrose continuously snaps him back to what is known and not known.

Wow, Roger Penrose at 90 sounds so incredibly sharp. Also well done JBP for preparing for this so thoroughly. Amazing conversation.

The immense respect these interlocutors have for the process of discovery is revelatory. This is how great minds pursue a shared understanding of reality. The thinking world should pay attention.

Great interview, good it has somebody intelligent and respectful as Jordan, intelligent to understand and apply logic to a science that is not his forte, and respectful to ask clarificarion on ambiguity instead of letting it pass and not thruly learning what the professor is trying to explain.

Roger Penrose is a living legend, and it's an amazing privilege to listen to him, so thank you for this conversation. 20:29 "The creative people use lower probability concepts and words in their approach." This is because in lower probability concepts and words convey more information in Information Theory, since information is defined as negative entropy. This means that there is less randomness, since entropy is basically randomness. 20:01 "Creative consciousness doesn't seem to be a random walk." Well, obviously because the less probable the idea, the less random it is, according to Information Theory. So, he understands "creativity", but he has to learn the basics of Information Theory/Cybernetics (and he should know cybernetics since it's being used extensively in psychology, and he also mentions it on one of his lectures).

Watching Jordan’s youthful interest and nervousness is so touching. He seems so genuinely curious, he’s not afraid to reveal his ignorance on certain topics in search for the truth.

WOW!!!! That was one of the best talks I have ever heard, much less watched! 2 big brains from their own respective specialties hashing out reality, what a chat!

Stephen for the win with those crazy deep questions near the end!! Wow! Beautiful man!

This is fantastic to see these two amazing gents talking together. Coincidentally I recently passed my PhD (mostly AI related) and quoted both Jordan Peterson and Roger Penrose in my thesis! :)

Such a great man, Sir Roger gave a talk at my university and I was lucky enough to get a signature from him

"thank you for uploading these videos. Even if I'm having a hard night, I just put a relaxing astronomy video on and listen. It always makes my nights go much easier. Thank you!!!"

I love that Jordan is trying so hard to ask tremendous and profound questions, and at the same time, the place he’s coming from is so fundamentally different than Penrose that sometimes the questions don't seem to compute. Then, around the 1hr mark, Jordan humbly admits to being out of his depth with regards to these topics while, at the same time, he's asking questions that are incredibly insightful in an abstract sense. It's always a toss-up as to whether people who think in two profoundly different manners will get along with each other. I think by the 1hr mark, Penrose is beginning to get that Jordan isn't trying to be obtuse or sneaky but that the gulf between the two kinds of thinking is what makes Jordan hard to understand from a concrete thinker’s standpoint.

There was a fundamental misunderstanding between the reasoning and propositions between Sir Penrose and Jordan. This significantly impaired the initial discussion and the perception of the meaning of such propositions. It is necessary to fully grasp what "computational" might even mean in the simplest mathematical terms before even considering algorithmic thinking and to extend such a primordial form into questions of predicting the future and statistical phenomenon of math and physics is impossible. These two great men have shown why in some sense, social sciences and natural sciences are so disconnected and far from eachother and that it is too naive to draw conclusions about our behavior and cognitive structure from the fundamentals of logic. I had no idea we were this far behind and ofcourse I did not understand the propositions of Sir Penrose either but his borderline annoyance to the way these were taken as parts of a very different set of ideas.

We live in a wonderful time when I and everyone else on earth can watch this beautiful discussion

You can't have this conversation without an economist at the table Mr. Peterson! Humans are intermediaries in the deterministic and teleological world. And human action is a major driver of change. Psychology is a science that deals with the ends we choose but the corridor betwen that subjective realm and the objective realm is not consciousness, it is action. Human action in the real world. Economics is a branch of praxeology, an a priori discipline, whose laws are derived deductively from an ultimate axiom. Praxeology is the application of formal logic to the concept of human action in economic terms (not psychological) in that it deals with objective realities like scarcity, time, and the means. I would highly recommend Ludwig von Mises's Human Action to you not just because I liked it, but because I think you would like it. You are a thinking man. And Ludwig von Mises is one of the few literary economists who can show you how to think about economics. Bless you for all you do.

An absolutely brilliant conversation and I'm at minute 12:19 of this video while typing this comment. I have just listened to the first 12 minutes and while stopping, repeating and focusing on understanding what they say, I start myself thinking about this topic in such a deep manner I was never ever thinking before about any topic at all. I start to recombine these thesises together with my experiences and limited knowledge for about over an hour now and it blows my mind literally. I don't know exactly why and how (maybe subconsciously), but I guess these are the most inspirational first 12 min of a conversation for my own mind and brain I've ever had ...I can't even put in words what I was thinking all about just by listening to this (it ended in "God")...never was the word "mindblowing" so perfectly describing the feeling, THIS conversation is triggering in me. I take my hat off to Sir Roger Penrose and also to J.B. Peterson. To all intellectual people on this level...please keep sharing your thoughts and "perceived knowledge" with us.

JP is SO GOOD at getting at the motivation of someone to find out why they think what they think. He's both working out his concepts and getting Penrose to consider different angles. I would love to see Jordan sit down with all of our greatest thinkers and scientists and just pick their brains. It's so rewarding to watch. He's both increasing his understanding, and politely challenging the other person's understanding. This is such a great way for both parties to grow. Jordan is just hardwired to improve himself and others. It's refreshing. I do think Penrose has been "confined" to his interpretations, and the general scientific consensus, for such a long time, that he has come to consider much of what he understands as gospel (pun intended). That's not to say that he doesn't know his field incredibly well, or hasn't provided many salient points. But, he had a wall up here, and it only grew when "faith" was mentioned. He put that guard up when he got the notion something vaguely religious entered the discussion. To address that behavior a bit, I think that a certain amount of faith is necessary in science. We can only understand so much as it is, that so much beyond what we can't predict has to be taken with a bit of faith. Speaking personally, I think that once one believes in the existence of God, or a creator of some kind, much in science makes a LOT more sense, and only bolsters research. I think not understanding this, or at least the potential for it, limits your scope as a scientist. However, I make no judgment of Penrose for this. It's the primary and promoted interpretation of existence in the scientific community that we came about as an accident, regardless of the many unpromoted and prominent Christian scientists of the world, and the logical fallacies said theories contain. I actually really appreciate that he was willing to have the dialogue in the first place. Saying that, I think JP might have plucked a few of those cognitive strings, getting Penrose to consider some angles beyond his normal comfort level, and gradually opened him up to dialogue. That's saying a lot for someone trained to regard mention of "faith" or God as taboo. Great discussion! These talks are masterclasses, for so many reasons. Is Alan Guth next? 😁

Professor Penrose just WOW! One of my intelligence heroes and he is the first to admit "we just don't know!" I really like how he probes consciousness and knows it isn't what humans think it is and like quantum is so much more complex and strange.

Great vid . Thank you for the enlightenment . My brain will never be the same . ❤ from 🇨🇦

Even Jordan Peterson is humbled by Sir Penrose 😂 So funny to watch.

Jordan - “What are the geometric forms conceptually?” Roger - “I just like doing puzzles man.”

Peterson has an enormous intellectual curiosity and a desire to extrapolate from one discipline to another, to synthesize different strands of thinking and so enrich his 'map of meaning', a cartography of the world. This makes him fascinating to listen to and explains a lot of his draw as a populariser of academe, and a scientific communicator par excellence. The trouble is, maths and physics are such deep, esoteric disciplines that - even for the very intelligent outsider - Peterson's worthy attempts to draw out the parallels he loves seem to strike Penrose as superficial or off-point. What happens when the ultimate specialist meets the ultimate generalist

Roger Penrose's sometimes partner, Stuart Hameroff, in consciousness studies (an emeritus Professor of both Anesthesiology and Psychology) is equally interesting. You've seen him speak, and you should also interview him!

I knew for the first time when I heard Jordan was not saying something to hear him, and this proved to be right when he is face to face with Penrose!

Sir Roger will probably be with us for another decade, he seems incredibly lucid and physically well, my grandfather is 96 and still going strong, and he looked very much like Sir Roger does here when he was 90.

16mins into the conversation and my brain is already fried. Penrose is extremely smarter than I expected before watching the interview. And Jordan never disappoints either. The attention to details… the choice of words…. I’m speechless

It’s fascinating just how differently their minds work. Both are deeply logical, intellectual but also abstract and creative thinkers but in such profoundly different ways. Roger Penrose is a deeply mathematically logical thinker but still many of his theories and thoughts are creative and original, but Peterson’s abstraction on the human mind is such a vastly different form of imagination and vision of people, their minds and logic that Penrose doesn’t see Peterson's perspective and vice verse. They don’t see eye to eye but it is entertaining in itself to see the unique ways they think.

6:32 Understanding is the stuff of this new age to come. 4th Density transition, based in love and understanding, compassion and self acceptance. So great he said that.

Bringing conversations like this to the masses is such a profoundly beautiful thing. Different people may disagree with aspects of your politics (I know I do,) but here it should be unequivocally clear to all that you're a positive force for humanity, and we're lucky to have you. This, your harvard lectures on youtube, your biblical series...you're doing truly fantastic work. Thank you.

That was a very interesting conversation to listen to. I don't feel quite as slow when also I hear theoretical physicists say they don't understand a question which I have to listen to a few times before I have a grasp of it. Thank you for sharing, Dr. Peterson. God bless you and your family.

Can you three get together again and do another ? You opened my mind up even more than I realized about many different things related to this universe....it's like sitting in class listening to a great mind ....loved this

What a joy to watch the dynamic interplay of the precise, contractive mathematical physicist and the exuberant, expansive mytho-poetic philosopher!

Only a few minutes in , this conversation is already GOLD.

oh this is the craziest crossover ever. Dr. Peterson, you should also have Dr. Peter Fenwick on the podcast - he's the prominent neuropsychiatrist/physiologist who's a pioneer in near death expriences.

Penrose is a gentleman as far as I can tell. It's great that there are top scientists like him

Good to hear Peterson asking questions.

This interview shows why Dr Peterson comes across as so real to so many people, and also why he is so successful in his field and his new found internet fame. The ability to be truly curious and ask questions is a dying trait

Dr. Peterson, there is another physicist (turned philosopher) who wrote a lot about the nature of the mind and of consciousness, basing himself in his understanding of physics. His name was David Bohm. He is now deceased, but he wrote a book called "Wholeness and the Implicate Order" in which he discusses several things which might be relevant to this conversation, and which I found very enlightening. I recommend it to you. And while you're at it, you might as well also look into his interpretation of quantum mechanics, called Bohmian mechanics, since you showed interest in quantum theory. His interpretation gets rid of the inconsistency/incompleteness from which the standard interpretation suffers in an elegant and easy to understand way, and in a way which takes all of the apparent "magic" out of the theory. I was fascinated to see that Roger Penrose uses Godel incompleteness to support his views on the nature of consciousness, since I came to the same conclusions on my own years ago based on the same mathematics. So cool to hear my ideas coming from the mouth of such a brilliant man!

So often it comes down to how a question is posed, as witnessed here. After nearly 30 years of studying physics, I am relieved with the work that Sir Roger Penrose is working on regarding consciousness. I have always wanted to ask a neurologist about their thoughts on what is known as co-consciousness in people with Dissociative Identity Disorder, formally known as Multiple Personality Disorder. As there are many minds and many different perspectives in one person with this disorder. I believe that studying their minds would help somewhat in the understanding of consciousness.