I don't think anyone is seriously debating whether Putin is smart or dumb. Putin is clearly smart to rise to be the leader of Russia and hold power for over 22 years is no easy feat.

Wow, I was impressed by Jack Barsky openness when he said directly "You have just gave me a good lesson". He would be brilliant person for a chat.

We don't know a ton about his time as a kgb agent, so I can't imagine he was that bad of one. My guess is that he wasn't one to push the envelope too much and was always able to position himself well so he never took the fall for stuff going wrong

You should interview Yuri Shvets, who graduated from the same KGB institute as Putin, but unlike Putin he was stationed in Washington. He lives in the states, speaks perfect English and has a UKposts channel.

Lex shows good example of steel man in push back on Kalugin's opinion. Jack shows intelligent re-evaluation of his position based on point made by Lex. This is how good interviews are done. I will have to watch the whole interview. Great clip.

Lex you're a great interviewer, it is the first time I watch your show, keep it up man!

One thing that's true of intelligence-gathering as well as any other workplace--people who get promoted aren't always the best at the job, and the best at the job aren't always the ones who get promoted. Highly-motivated, highly-talented intelligence officers don't usually last sixteen years like Putin did-a lot of them burn out in less than a decade because espionage is one of the most difficult, most stressful professions in the world.

You can see the conflict running behind Lex in this interview. Truly to be impartial in this type of scenario has to be very difficult to impossible in a interview. I tend to think only people who are truly impartial would have to be from a different world. Props to him as he attempts as most people won't even go that far.

You are on the right path Lex with your determination to discover truth. Truth is the key to civilizational progress.

What makes a 'good' KGB Agent? It's not all being covert or turning assets. Organizational skills are always useful, in EVERY job. If you're a plumber who has no organizational skills, even if you're the best plumber in the world, your results will be overpriced and take too long. I think this is drilling in at weird angles to get the result you're looking for.

My father met him in Moscow after the fall of ussr. My father was secret service and went there with the president Al detail. He knew my mothers name and knew she just gave birth to me. Crazy to think of

Lex you were superb on this one. The gentleman remarked that poutin was not exceptional as an agent. This is likely true to the degree that in many fields the best are not promoted into positions where they are less effective. The "best agents" are too valuable in their positions in those key European countries he mentioned to ever reach leadership positions. What poutin did have was the necessary competence, ambition, and opportunity rise within his organisation. What is perhaps more significant is his ability to maintain in power for so long and effectively eliminate all competition.

Whether Putin was a good or bad kgb agent is moot. He discovered he was good at networking and getting in with the right people. Putin obviously has charisma. Like every boss while I was home watching T.V. he was doing something work related. His performance as a kgb agent was good enough to get him in the door with the big players. Someone thought e as good..

Lex doing his best William F. Buckley impression in this interview.

Lex you sir are an awesome non-bias interviewer!

Yes, politician have to be excellent at lying. Most can easily be detected now a days. How? Their lips move.

He was an agent, he speaks fluently english and french and i think german, i know that he was because a family friend worked for the jugoslavian secret agency and told us he met him when putin was very young and at the beginning of his carrier in the kgb, but he also told us that putin is a machine, very intelligent he understands everything very quickly.

Imagine taking anything a "former" intelligence operative has to say at face value.

if they say a particular agent was BAD....i believe tht agent has already cemented his grounds clean and is VERY GOOD to a point others didn't bother him.

I don't know how he was as an agent except for the story about him facing a crowd outside the Russian ambassy when the Berlin wall fell inj 89 where he showed exceptional composure But as a politician i've seen him on videos giving speech lasting hours in front of large audiences such as at the SPIEF or other times in front of smaller selected audiences or one on one on all kinds of subjects & he always expressed himself with intelligence & demonstrated he was in controlled of his dossiers & could answer at lenght to just about any questions he was asked sometimes out of the blue I consider him the most impressive politician & Statement i've seen in my adult life going back 5 decades The men is also considered a working horse & he's dedicated to his task as President or PM in the past I would extrapolate those qualities to the time he worked for the KGB One thing he's not is a "yes man" & i believe that will play against anyone in org like the KGB or the CIA & the Pentagon I also believe he's a man of integrity & that's not always something seen favoribly in some org He's a team man & i believe he's faithfull to his associates & friends What he did as leader of Russia after the mess caused by Yeltsin the US & Europe is outstanding he brought Russia from a failed bankrupt State to a country withstanding the full onslaught of Western economic Sanctions & a full out proxy war by NATO using Nazi Fanatics & turning the table on all of them both economicaly & militarily That speaks volume about the man !

I know people who were top of their class and are stuck in a dead end job.. I know people who were slackers and stoners who changed their life around. Being a good student is rarely an indicator of success. Its more like imagination, ambition, street smarts, Emotional IQ and other factors which make the difference.

You don’t have to be good - just survive.

makes sense, same way as you do not have to be bets salesman in order to be a sales team leader. Different skills. So in kgb, you do not have to be best skilled spy in order to be a top manager.

Man. Lex Friedman is a smart ass.

To do what Putin has done politically is arguably more impressive than anything any other world leader has done in recent history. It may have been brutal and unethical, but in terms of the sheer length of time he has remained in power, and the amount of influence he has exerted, he's impressive.

The guys who were stationed in East Germany were of mediocre intellect. He was good at playing office politics...in particular, cozying up to the mayor of St. Petersburg and becoming his right-hand man. This is how Putin started his political career. He weasled his way in.

People who get to leadership positions inside of institutions are not always the "best" of their ilk. They are good enough. But the greater skill is that of improving their position. Something that "the best" often don't have while being incentivized to maximally employ their expertise - think technicians, engineers, spies, lawyers, doctors who then become executives/administrators/politicians. The CEO who "started in the mail room" probably wasn't the best mail sorter but they were more motivated and socially competent.

You right about the people need to drop all the things we were told as children towards getting older for what is right and wrong. It's judged through politics, religion, etc. instead of following what's wrong and right as in being a good human being that knows what real right and wrong is about

The best field agents, don't necessarily make the best supervisors and managers. Sometimes, in my two IC agencies that I worked in, agents who were mediocre in the field, seemed to often find their calling once they were put in charge of things and other agents, instead of cases and suspects. And, a lot of the best agents just wanted to be left alone to do their thing, and really had no interest at all in moving into management. For the really good, it was almost like their calling or religion to work in the field, and they didn't give it up easily.

What are the KPIs for being a good KGB agent? We need to know this first.

Good clip! I'd like to see you interview historian Yuri Felshtinsky on the Ukraine situation.

Those are just opinions and like Lex said bias analysis. You don't know if he was good or bad. What constitutes good or bad?

He was smart enough to not outshine the KGB bosses and to not raise any eyebrows. He seemed good but not great . Smart move to keep rising in the government keeping a relative low profile until he got all the power. He is definitely evil and talented.

Woah that looks like Danil Dubov

If you want to get an idea of who put in is, or at least how he presents, it's no mystery. He talks at length on all sorts of topics in long form interviews, all available online. He's quite smart, from my understanding he's also violent and ruthless.

Excellent interviewing.

05:24what a brilliant insightful statement Lex makes.

To be a good politician or statesman you have to understand history . Putin understands history.

I’ve never seen you before and I’m kinda mad about it. Best interviewer I’ve seen hands down.

He probably learned things from his time there that he applied to his preferred field of leadership. Such as the menace and opaqueness as well as his thinking regarding threats/risk.

I thank the lord to find this podcast. The way he's asking questions, keeping the line of talking, my God! Not even a xanax could make sleep faster than listening to this dude. My sleep schedule is fixed, keep up the good work talking like this man! You saved me from my sleep deprivation!

Putin was a lawyer for the KGB, nothing more, nothing less. The CIA has lawyers as well, they aren’t considered “agents”. Putin was a logistics guy first, so he served in logistics positions, station chief being a good example of one. East Germany was active, there were plenty of American agents poking into East Germany. They didn’t tend to stay long that’s for sure. Much respect to this gentleman, but as a field agent he would’ve been in the dark about a lot of things including the goings-on back behind the Iron Curtain. He’s a humble man and he admits it, humility is how real men cope.

Well, sometimes in systems of power like the one installed in soviet Russia, talent isn't something that is premiered and rewarded. For someone out of their depth, people of talent and charisma is a threat to your position. Hence, a spiral of incompetence is put in motion, where as untalented people recruit untalented people and together in power. You see this in large western organisations as well where oligopols are formed. Old and lazy who keep doing what they've always done. Look at the people in charge at the Chernobyl power plant and in the city of Chernobyl, former shoe-store managers that became incompetent high ranking officials, most likely because the one recruited them wanted to stay safe in their position, not usurped by anyone else

Ruthlessness and determination are key factors that can make up where competency is lacking.

Damn gg Lex you really made this fellar look pass his biases

There is nothing surprising about Putin being a mediocre or even below average "agent", but possessing superior "managerial or executive" skills. I've witnessed this first hand in business, often times the people who end up on the top or near the top of the managerial pyramid are average or below average in "technical" skill. But, they have an innate ability to rise through the ranks via cunning, manipulation and outright lying if it's called for. "Shamelessness" is often a part of this package, and as we've seen with Trump, it works remarkably well.

did he communicate with a young julian assange via a vic-20 whilst stationed in east germany

an agent who is a good organizer, speaks the language is not someone I would send abroad but keep behind to line to verify what others are sending back. Also, if he is a good politician aka making connections and friends, is that not what a good agent should be able to?

..I lived in Germany for 10 years and heard Berlin and Vienna had the most spies..

This seems like a weird argument from Lex. I understand the gist of his general point but being a good kgb agent and being able to rise through the ranks of a political organization aren’t mutually exclusive traits. Barsky even says he had a different set of skills. Its like everyone needs top political figures to be some sort of shadow mastermind instead of someone who is literally and somewhat simply shameless and ruthless and organized.

Awesome content Fridman. New subscriber here.

I love the end of this clip, when you look at actions ... the not knowing the full truth ... brilliant as I continue to learn more and i dont even work for them 😂

Well Jack Barsky was sleeper agent and was allowed to live in US after it became known so there is just no way for him to be objective if he wants his status to stay the same. (Still interesting quest)

considering where he's at today i'd say he was pretty good lol.

It's not usually the super star who makes a great coach.

There's a Chinese saying that goes like "The talented, take longer to mature". Not sure if that applies to Putin. His rise was likely a mix of luck and being suited to the task. He also seems rather different today from the man he was when he was young. It's honestly kinda difficult to see how that kid became the Putin of today.

This guy also "discredited" Yuri Bezmenov in the same episode, use CAUTION in believing anything he is telling you.

Much respect for a guy who literally accomplished nothing of Vlad's magnitude but still manage to tell the world of his "mediocrity"... This is the problem the west has with Poutine. Everyone's is mistaking him for an idiot! He might be crazy... but he's not an idiot!

Amazing content. Thank you Lex. Clever

Silly question maybe, what makes a person divisive? By definition

I think Putin is a very intelligent man. A lot of his speeches actually do make sense from his point of view .

show me a western politician with the competency of Putin, ill wait.... whats up with our politicians is outragous, they workin against us constantly

It doesn’t even really matter at this point whether Putin was a “good” or competent agent. In hindsight his time with the department was purely a vehicle for him to use during his rise to power.

I think jack barsky giving interview about Kgb with lex while Putin currently running the russia should tell us that jack has got the statement wrong about Putin not being a good agent

I don't like Putin either but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a dork, pushing paper.

I had a couple of classmates in school who were not good students. They ended up having their own successful businesses, and in a way, they are way more successful in most life's sectors (family, finance, etc) than the best of the class are. Demeaning someone and making fun of his past, means we do not believe people can change/improve their skills/character. Say whatever you want about Putin, but I believe it is a very difficult job to govern such a huge country.

Every strategic geopolitical entity has its personal interests which much be safeguarded, regardless, the true outlook of an leader is if they take care of their own ppl.. we will never all be the same but we are all human

Watched Russian interviews of Putins ex KGB colleagues, according to them he was a the lowest ranked and valued among them. In fact they called him the runner boy. “Get this bring that”. Which tells me he was installed by the powers that be at that time and now. He was and is simply very flexible for manipulation. Thus his value to them.

Here's the deal with Putin. A long time ago he made an oath to the Soviet Union, AND HE'S GOING TO KEEP IT!

Speculation

2:38 Oleg told him that Oleg was not an impressive trainee.

He's still here and on top.

Putin is a good guy compared to Russia previous leaders .... and it's not like US never started unjust war with another nation. Honestly this scenario with NATO and Ukraine reminds me Cuban missile crysis but sides swaped

"Was Putin a good KGB agent?" ..H'm? let's see ...He now runs Russia _COMPLETELY_ ! So, yes ...I think the answer may be yes.

Your average to below average kgb agent is still very smart and capable otherwise they wouldn’t be there

To everyone whi wants to gain and better insight into how putin became the one he is I can definitely recommend the documentary series of Artem Kruglov about putin and his fellas. The documentary name is "Путинизм как он есть" and it is available on the YT channel "Острый Угол" as a play list. It is brilliant and involves a lot of rare footages and interviews. It is basically in Russian, however, maybe there are some subtitles. Anyway, I am quite sure, that the autor would add the subtitles of enough people would ask in the comments. If you are interested in understending ot better, how putin got where he is right now, you simply cannot miss this documentary.

Putin has legitimate black belts in Judo and Karate, 5th degree black belts if I'm not mistaken. He also is a international master of sport in sambo

Putin playing chess while the rest of the world is playing checkers........

He’s the premier of Russia so must be good at something Imagine how many hardliners were in line

Ive learned from Working with people that, being skilled at your job is as important as being a good politician when it comes to moving up the ladder.

If you've ever worked a day in the life you would know this: You can be a crappy whatever (nurse, firefighter, desk job person, drive thru person ..) but because of personality disorders, strength of character, lack of personality boundaries (psychopathic traits), strong narcissism etc ... You can make it to the top like Putin. A good fsb agent may not make it to Putin's level because he or she lacks the ruthlessness to scheme, fight and manipulate or jockey to the top.

As a head of state he clearly proven him and his performance is remarkable in all areas.

very few words slip off his tongue where you can hear a slight german accent impressive

I love how philosophical this is

My grandpa met Putin in Moscow just after the collapse of the Soviet Union. My grandpa made a joke about him and Putin leaned in and whispered in his ear, telling him his wife’s name, address, and where she was at that given moment. My grandpa was completely taken back and started shaking in fear. He apologised to Putin immediately. Putin pointed at him and said “Don’t let me catch you around here again”. My grandpa took the next flight back home and never went back to Russia.

“Good politician and made connections”. Oh so he did exactly what an agent was supposed to do. Sounds like he was playing chess

He was a lawyer not an agent.

anyone heard the story of young putin,durring the fall of Berlin wall, where hundred people came into his office to take him down,and he ,Putin calmly lifted his service pistol in the air and said ... "this is CZ, it has 9 bullets, 8 for you guys and 1 for me"... suposedlly all just turn oround and walked away...left him to flea...

Yes he was probably one of the best. Being a good politician makes you a good spy!

Well without a doubt he’s good at making his people and his country priority #1 and as an 🇺🇸 our country would be in better shape with a leader like Putin than the sellout we have calling the shots right now.

Anyone who's worked anywhere has seen unqualified people "rise through the ranks"

What makes a good kgb agent? (Apart from not getting caught)

5:00 Boy does he want his Putin Interview

Yeah he might not have been the James Bond of the KGB, but that was never his goal, his goal was much grander and he was way too smart to just be an agent, he wanted to Run the KGB/FSB and run Russia, become a face on the international stage, and he's achieved all of it.

Do you seriously think if he had worked on the other side of the curtain, anyone who would know would verify it? If there is any discussion on the topic in public forums, it could easily be misinformation by accident or design. We really know nothing!

hes very crafty

Best is subjective to the scenario. Looking at his trajectory now; I would quantify him as the best in class. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Putin is a exceptional politician. He is leading the worlds most hard ruled and corrupt country. Imagine the organizational skills needed. However he is logical, cold and very calculated.

There is something that makes him special and its not executive skills.

Lex is pretty wise for such a young man.