No ‘Hippie Ape’: Bonobos Are Aggressive...

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Philip A. Lederer M.D.

Philip A. Lederer M.D.

День тому

Differences in expression of male aggression between wild bonobos and chimpanzees
www.cell.com/current-biology/...
No ‘Hippie Ape’: Bonobos Are Often Aggressive, Study Finds
www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/sc...
So much for summers of love
news.harvard.edu/gazette/stor...

КОМЕНТАРІ: 20
@mmaphilosophy
@mmaphilosophy 11 днів тому
Thats not an angry bonobo, its a yawning bonobo and humans take it out of context
@Pootie_Tang
@Pootie_Tang 15 днів тому
Also, yet another aspect of the matter to think about is sex dimorphism in different species. If I'm not mistaken, the most kinds of gibbons have the least degree of it amongst apes, almost non existent at all, we have it pretty low also, bonobo a little higher, regular chimps higher than bonobos, gorillas... well, it's obvious. But there are also the ability and drive to mate year round that makes us pretty unique, maybe bonobos are also somewhere near, but we have in female population it combined with a disguised ovulation (not sure about how accurate this term in English lingo, I guess close enough). It all pretty important factors and at the same time tells a great deal about the nature of behaviour of certain creatures. Also, fun fact, human have the biggest ding-dong of all apes, even compared to gorillas, not sure how to interpret that, I guess there may be also some practical sense, not gonna speculate =) Also, look at baboon type primates, they believed to evolved into themselves roughly at the same time and place that we are, they had the same food sources that we did, but their evolutionary strategy was and still is different in terms of a super highly hierarchical and aggressive society and a powerful and scary anatomical weaponry in a form of jaws and teeth (many species of them have k9 in males that in closed mouth position spread lower than the lower jaw, it's just hidden under lips, which technically makes them a sabertoothed primates, they have them longer than recent big cats) which they use as a protection from predators and in internal aggression. As a general rule the bigger the face/teeth - the more it indicates the use of dominance rather than cooperation, of course there are a number of factors. Gibbons have small faces because they don't have no aggression nor cooperation =) And other factors too. For example, speaking of different human population, it's believed some have bigger face part of scull and bigger teeth, either where in some hot climate zones to widen the area of mucous membrane to help to cool down body and brain with evaporation, or in cold climates where they need to have bigger nose and mouth cavities to warm the inhaled air, or where for a long time they ate harsh foods, such as raw meat without the extensive use of tools, for example northern peoples who often ate almost exclusively meat, or Australian Aboriginal people, who lived in a place where food were abandoned resource hence they could not bother making much tools and just casually hunt local fauna and aet it raw, they believed to have (or rather had, because colonization sadly wiped them almost entirely) the biggest teeth of all of us and also the biggest number of them, roughly 1-2 molars more then average on the planet. And sometimes in us as in many animals from spiders to birds and anything else, some features, especially external, might be quite random and a product of sexual selection, basically when partners (often females) in different species of even in different populations of one species tend to pick and consider attractive different non essential thing (such as this exact length of decorative feathers of this and this exact colur etc.). And sometimes this mechanism might be not so random, for example, there is a known tribe living now or in a nearest past, that had men noticeably smaller and "tender" built compared to women. When asked, they revealed, that they had a tradition, so to speak, of men regularly and "thoroughly" beating their wives, so generation after generation women tended to choose smaller men as husbands, because "smaller man can't hit as hard" =))) There's many more to think about that really entertains mind and as you've said enables to (at least try to) better understand the world and ourselves
@Cegros
@Cegros 15 днів тому
What an excellent read this comment is! I only wish there was some type of paragraph spacing, to make others more inclined to read it through!
@Pootie_Tang
@Pootie_Tang 14 днів тому
@@Cegros Haha, thank you, just wrote it in the moment) Added some paragraphing, more or less at the places that make sense=)
@fregward
@fregward 14 днів тому
This study doesn't really go against anything we know about bonobos - there is, of course, still very little male-female violence (while female-male violence and male-male aggression is increased when compared to chimps). It's also important to consider the extent of these aggressive interactions, which are sometimes fatal in chimps but never in bonobos. The term "hippie ape" comes from the stereotype that the "sisterhoods" ranked at the top of bonobo society often resolve conflict through sexual interaction, play, and sharing of food. Their society, when compared to chimps, is remarkably more oriented towards maintaining non-fatal interactions between individuals (especially out-group individuals). This has a lot to do with the abundance of food in the Congo Basin Rainforest - for which there is a notable lack in competition. Bonobos, like all wild animals, can be violent - but this has never (as far as we have observed) escalated to being fatal. Of course, the study is still fantastic and I find it very interesting. But it does not contradict the "hippie ape" stereotype as seriously as the NY Times article (particularly) claims.
@wordswordswords8203
@wordswordswords8203 15 днів тому
Fascinating topic. It's amazing how much we are controlled by our biology. Good thing to study and understand. I love the idea of learning from the animal kingdom and building more peaceful communities.
@Pootie_Tang
@Pootie_Tang 15 днів тому
it's also the other other way around too, our biology is the product of a chain of evolutionary challenges and hardships that was necessary to survive and compete with other species, most species that ever lived are extinct after all, we are amongst lucky ones. Other thing is that as our social structure "evolves" much faster than it's possible for our biology, there is more and more inadequacy between those two things, which we are trying with some degree of success negate with social adjustment, but still. In the future, distant or not, we might well be driven to the regular use of gene modification of ourselves to eradicate this growing discrepancy and also the fact, that in a comfort (compared to other animals' and our predecessors' life) of social life we lost most of the natural pressure of selection, hence we, as believed by many scientists , and I'd say it's pretty logical, will naturally degrade in physicality (maybe not a problem), in health (a problem) and in terms of intellect and brain size and capacity, because our mind formed under pressure of a need to survive in a very harsh prehistoric environment, without the ability to hunt or defend ourselves much against pretty much any predator with just our bodies, hence only natural selection dictated that only those who were smart survived, who were able to overcome all this and also compete within our own species by wit (which were applied to use kill pray and neighbors often still, but in a witty way=). Now it's still rewarded, but not required, and no matter the wit nothing stops an individual to leave behind as many own genes in as many offspring as pleased, basically, and they all will survive. It's not good nor bad, it's just a simple fact. Also, many relative to our ancestors species extinct this way if place in a "heaven", some relatives of proto humans, for example when got to an isolated island with no predators or competition long enough, we see this by paleoanthropological findings (bones) dated chronologically, reveals to us drastic decrease in size and brain shrinkage not by per cents, but by manyfolds with according findings of degradation in ability in making tools that we find alongside, as they became much more simple in behaviour and in intellectual capacity, which were not a problem by itself, but when suddenly other species arrived they just were wiped and killed/eaten in a blink of an eye, historically speaking. It's all indeed a very fascinating topic to thing about, and also I find it problematic for us all, when we either forget or ignore or deny that we are just a species of animal, of ape, our "greatness" is just a lucky and fortunate and effective specialty, just as any living thing has their own, life in general driven only by what genes are more successful in spreading more of it's copies and maintaining the stability of it's "pool", and for us, just as for any other live, it's not giver nor guaranteed. Not denying nor condemning humanity as a concept (pretty much opposite), I see our tendency of distinction us from animals as if we are something completely different is a very dangerous and blinding and damaging (to ourselves and to surrounding life) arrogance
@Pootie_Tang
@Pootie_Tang 15 днів тому
I actually very much like your line of thought and habit of looking for connections etc, glad to stumble upon your video. Wow, you're just mentioned Ukraine as I write it... Greetings from Ukraine, I wish we had chimps as our east neighbors, they would be much more human alike in their mode of operation... wish us luck
@markwagner8609
@markwagner8609 16 днів тому
Bonobo or chimp. Just aggressive or more. Female or male dominated society. I choose... Orangatang!
@Pootie_Tang
@Pootie_Tang 15 днів тому
My pick wound be any kind of gibbons =) Just swing happily with your wife and kid like top tier athletes and sing to mark your territory communicating with your neighbors from a distance, don't letting the aggression in your life by the very principles of it! =)))
@iraniandude2899
@iraniandude2899 15 днів тому
Found the r*pist! (almost all sexual encounters between orangutans are r*apes)
@mmaphilosophy
@mmaphilosophy 11 днів тому
I choose Gorilla's. Most peaceful ape along with orangutans
@ChuPerez-mb2il
@ChuPerez-mb2il 15 днів тому
Feel sad for you
@PhilipLederer
@PhilipLederer 16 днів тому
:)
@erikbrush
@erikbrush 15 днів тому
It's pronounced Boe-no-boe. Not bonnah-boe. Just an FYI.
@st.fiacre6685
@st.fiacre6685 15 днів тому
Thats a nice shot of your face and skull on top of the monkey picture, so we can see the resemblance.Your a good example of evolution and your desire to progress by showing that you have been tamed by civilization. Great job, you should be proud of yourself.
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