Watching this while switching between x1, x.5, and x.25 speed randomly for the true Zack Snyder experience

Netflix has no taste. Why do you think Oda INSISTED on being directly involved with the One Piece lave adaptation. That alone was a huge reason it worked out as well as it did.

Heh, Kratos is _literally_ laconic. (Laconia is the region of Greece around Sparta.)

Fun counterecample: Ryu Mizuno published his DnD party's minutes 1st, THEN did a huge editing job and transformed them into novels. That's what the Lodoss anime was adapted from. Mizuno knew that copypasting a dnd game report couldn't lead to a good novel, they're apples and oranges.

Since this is a Snyder film, this comparison I thought of seems particularly fun: When you spoke about the edgy stoic character trope being every character it reminded me of a similar thing James Gunn did in Suicide Squad, where both Bloodsport and Peacemaker are extremely similar characters with extremely similar backstories, motivations, and skill sets. Of course, unlike Snyder (who always does this, because he thinks the dark and broody character is cool, so in Justice League, Batman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Cyborg were all like that too), Gunn does this with purpose: first he highlights the toxicity in both; second he used their similarities to then show the difference in how they change and progress, with each one having to deal with their past and their toxic traits differently to become better people. Bloodsport does that in the Suicide Squad movie, and Peacemaker does that in his own show. He also makes them very similar to highlight the falsehood of the narratives within the stereotype: they’re made to feel present themselves as unique heroes, but ultimately they’re not heroic (in that they’re not good people at first, and only become that once they do away with their old way of thinking, and in that what they thought made them exceptional really just made them useful tools), and they’re certainly not unique. I guess you can do multiple characters that fit a single trope, but that really works only if the point is to confront and challenge that. Edit: another comparison with Gunn. In Suicide Squad, there’s the bits where Amanda Waller talks about each character’s backstory a bit. Then throughout the story it’s revealed that that information is either kinda wrong, incomplete, or heavily biased

I had a campaign where the 'sit around and tell your backstory' thing happened. One of the PC made us sit around and ask each other questions and if you refused, you had to *pay the person asking 15 gold coins* to keep your secret. Needless to say it was an awkward and upsetting situation. Not only did it suck the fun out of having a mysterious backstory but now nobody had a reason to bond with each other because now there was hostility between people who didn't want to give away their secrets.

Justice for Lockwood and co, it was so good.

Funnily I realized also, that all characters are some kind of „That Guy“, tropes of Players in a random game.

And this is exactly why DC threw the "Snyderverse" in the trash.

A moment of silence for all the great Netflix shows whose futures were robbed to feed this monstrosity

The fact we had slow mo grain harvesting says it all about the movie. The movie battles felt like a rail roaded encounter with how bad the empires soldiers were, made specifically for the farmers to win. Unless your nemesis who the DM forgot about and let die because he couldn’t really care for her. It’s truly sad because if each character had a movie themselves exploring them and their origin in this universe it could have been baller if he wasn’t directing it.

The thing about the "stoic badass" character is that they kind of need a non-stoic character to play off of in order to work. This is precisely why Batman and Superman make such a good duo (when they're being written and characterized properly - I'm sure I don't need to remind anyone how Zack screwed up that dynamic). And even when Batman isn't teaming up with Superman, his own Bat family contains more youthful, enthusiastic heroes like Robin and Batgirl. And there's a reason his most well-known nemesis is The Joker, the polar opposite of Batman's serious badassery. The "edgy rogue" needs contrast in order to stand out.

“It was disappointing, but I expected it to be disappointing so it doesn’t count!”

THANK YOU CRISPY!!!!!! Laser focusing on lore and worldbuilding first at least feels like a massive trend for current creators, and that's certainly putting the cart before the horse, as you phrased it. I've been saying for years that no one will care about your story unless you have characters that make them care. It should *always* be characters first; that's why The Owl House and Avatar the Last Airbender are so beloved. PS: I love Candlekeep Mysteries! 😍

Literally every character in Rebel Moon: (Brooding in a different corner of the tavern, not talking to anyone)

As a DM, I'm always wrestling with the two voices in the back of my head. One is saying "Flesh out all the lore of your world!" and the other is saying "No, focus on the small-scale stuff first and build from there!" It can be paralysing, especially since I really do want to build up to this epic conclusion. This recontexualises the internal argument, so now I should be good to focus my efforts on what matters.

Funny, for a second I thought you were going to talk about the actual RPG horror story here: Netflix contracting Evil Genius to make an rpg for Rebel Moon and then trying to screw them on the deal

I was literally just ranting to some of my DND party about how bad rebel moon is. Some of it was about how it's a world that wants me to take it seriously but doesn't have a single character that has any... Character despite a large portion of them being portrayed by charismatic actors. Sofia Boutella has more personality in that bad Mummy movie than in this. On the parts where she's a mummy.

Some very good points there. Apparently Rebel Moons was going to be an rpg setting too (but legal stuff happened). I imagine this franchise existing is more due to having Snyder's name attached that it actually being good, but I may be biased here as I've never been a fan of his work.

For a better (or at least more entertaining) sci-fi version of "Seven Samurai", check out 1980s "Battle Beyond the Stars". No shortage of memorable characters in that one!

The problem is relying too much on a single trait to carry a character. An edgy character can have traits such as; being reserved, being calculating, being a show off, being cautious, being professional, being impersonal, being Arrogant, being competitive, etc. Just like classes have subclasses, tropes have traits that can give each kind of character so they don't feel like the same character when you make them.

14:11 as someone with a lot of anxiety let me explain something- I am always afraid the world is about to end. That doesn't mean that I'm not worried that my dad will never hug me, it just means that the world will end AND I'm not getting that hug. I know people think it's unrealistic that characters have these deep personal conversations in the middle of overthrowing the lich king, but it's also pretty unrealistic that you're a medieval peasant off to defeat the lich king, and are in no way concerned about how his unending winter will affect your farm, and who is taking care of your ailing mother, and how the inkeeper gave you mutton when you asked for venison because goddamn it dinner is the only thing you can kind of control right now

I burnt out on running big campaigns in my early 20's. Haven't been able to pick up anything bigger than 4 or 6 sessions as a gm and stick to the smaller ones now. And you know what? I enjoy them. I prefer running them. I can tell a punchier story. I have a lot of admiration for people who can run these titanic campaigns but It's something I can't do anymore. Love hearing you talk about your take on short campaigns and smaller stories.

Ngl my impression of these movies is that Snyder handed his team an unfinished first draft, and barely edited the result. There might be *seeds* of something in there, but overall it felt like a bit more of a fever dream. Really he should have hired some script editors and maybe have made a series instead, if he wanted to go into making a crazy long space opera

SO I WAS RIGHT! My thought halfway through the movie was that it's a RPG campaign made into a movie like

15:29 I recently DMed for the first time in years and I ran a oneshot with Candlekeep mysteries. I can confirm that it’s one of the best modules WotC has published, it makes it easy to practice and have all the information right there

I watched this with my mom after she had chosen it randomly as something to have on in the background while doing some work. I walked in partway through the movie and legitimately thought it was a Warhammer 40k movie until looking it up later and realizing it wasn't.

Thank you! I couldn't believe how bad this movie was at first I had to look up a review just to learn the main characters NAME even after watching the whole film?

Literally, when my brother and I was watching this money, we were like " Are..ALL of these characters are the same...but from there OWN different setting/show????"

loved this discussion. youre always poking my creativity neurons crispy!

Every other Rogue: Dark mysterious, brooding. My last Rogue: Dr Jeckal and Mr Hyde styled. Normal: Happy, bubbly and flamboyant. When he changes personalities: Take a slasher villain and make them an interrogator. Current rogue I'm playing now: Son of a Casino Don. Worked in the Casino that had no shortage of adventurers and heard stories. Got permission to go out and adventure. Makes poker/gambling jokes from time to time. Is also half Tabaxi and half Tiefling. Also uses magic playing cards he can throw and use spells depending on the hand he pulls during combat each turn. Yes. Husk is my favorite character in Hazbin Hotel. Why do you ask?

YES!! When I watched the first one my first thoughts where "This is a rip-off of other media and not even disguised or changed in any way" and "This feels like the first session of getting the D&D group together to go on a quest" :D I haven't seen the second yet, will this weekend because I want to hate-watch it with my gf (we watched the first one together too) xD Not to mention stuff that didn't make any sense in universe even...

I loved Seven Samurai, my favorite character was the farmer posing as a samurai. The Magnificent Seven was pretty good too. I guess I dodged a bullet by never checking out Rebel Moon.

I was just thinking about this for the past few weeks. Because yeah… Cora: The player with a paladin with a ten page backstory. Right down to the whole disgraced bodyguard to the king troupe. Kai: The “it’s what my character would do” guy. Everyone else: The player that has no idea what they’re doing, they picked their character because the class art looked cool, and haven’t thought about anything beyond the numbers on the sheet. So when they needed a backstory, they played madlibs with the paladin’s backstory

To be honest, this movie reminds me a lot of all the shit star wars imitator movies that came up in the eighties and nineties.

45 seconds! I have ultra instinct!

word is they uh green lit 5

Yeah! What we need is fewer broody loners and more fun-loving goofballs!

I didn't know what the hell that was about thank u Crispy fur saving my brain

I would suggest Anthony Gramuglia's video on Zack Snyder, which kinda analyses where all of Zack Snyder's Snyder-isms even come from. Really helps get in the mind of the guy

I've always been a lover of the once you go big, go personal. Congrats you saved the kingdom, you are basking in the wealth and the partying for returning the long lost royal back to the throne. Maybe if you hadn't been doing that you would have been around to protect your beloved, spouse, family member. Remember that bandit lord you quashed as part of how you rounded to 5th lvl? He had a brother... and that brother wants to remove someone that you care about. Good luck catching him since you are a massive celebrity and crowds form every time you stop somewhere.

There was a dnd show I used to watch a while ago that introduced within like the first 20 episodes not one, but two, universe ending bad guys that the group was going to need to fight. And I really lost interest at that point. Which sucks because the cast was a lot of fun to watch. But it really started to feel like the dm was continually uping the threat level way to soon. Like it was more for ratings (and gaining audience) then telling a story. I don't even think the idea was bad, but the 2nd bad guy was introduced way too freaking soon. They had barely even talked to the original Big Bad. It really felt like it took all the threat out of him when they clearly had bigger issues to handle. Which sucked.

My Saturday campaign, we're up to session 152 so far. No group changes since session 33 (in October 2021).

Thanks for your review🎉

SECRET TUNNEEEEL! SECRET TUNNEEEEL! ❤

Between this and Last Witch Hunter we’re really not doing well on Hollywood types dragging their DnD onto the big screen are we? At least the actual DnD movie was solid

Someone explain to me why they keep giving Snyder money?!?

They canceled Dark Crystal, but greenlight this *sigh* That said, this was an interesting way to look at tabletop issues through another medium.

Seven Samurai in space was done better by Roger Corman with Battle Beyond the Stars in 1980. No more rebels.

There's a difference between being a man of few words and an asocial brick. Heck, even Snake Eyes, a man of literally no spoken words, who is often deprived of a human face in characterization, still interacts and expresses in stories. And he was originally created from inert plastic painted black to fill out an empty character slot in the production run in the heyday of ninjas being the hot new trend. It goes to show what imagination can get you. From a recolor of a base mold for set completion to one of the most developed and beloved of his franchise. Snyder didn't even have any limitations put on him when creating this and still churned out lifeless action figures in the end product. While characters created from actual action figures are anything but basic and lifeless.

I'm actually in a campaign right now where everyone is playing a rogue. But the key to making it work is that we are all different types of rogues. We have the folk hero gladiator that's a major attention whore, we have the assassin who keeps insisting that casting dancing lights is better than candles, torches, and lanterns (the light is named Linda btw), we have the go with the flow scout that likes to steal apples, and we have a freelance detective that loves trying new consumables and whose high passive perception gives him severe stress and anxiety if left unchecked too long. We are less dark and edgy and more a quirky bunch of morally grey dumbasses who like the challenge our new employer has put in front of us.

I went into this movie with no knowledge of what it was going to be. I turned it off after the spider lady. It was more grueling than waiting at a doctor’s office with my phone in my car.

My first but certainly not last Crispy video!

Th title for the first post-intro section. XD Totally read that in MatPat’s voice.

Rebel moon just seems like a chimera of other properties without understanding how to fit it all together

See also the anime Samurai 7 And the *Star Wars: the Clone Wars* episode "Bounty Hunters"

Snyder focused so much on lore, and yet, he never addresses why a dreadnaught SPACESHIP is powered by a COAL FURNACE! Seriously, when I saw Kora leap onto a pile of coal that people were shoveling into a furnace, I had to rewatch the scene three times to make sure it wasn’t some bizarre fever dream that my ADHD ridden brain came up with.

I started building a Bionicle Moc world and of course I need main characters, it wasnt hard to figure them out but it was hard to make them all very different to where it wasn't to much

Laconia is the region where Sparta existed, so yes, Kratos is Laconic.

Snyders biggest issue seems to be world building where as the zombie movie he did on Netflix wasn't so terrible. his approach to the DC universe was, this is before we get into the notion of superman being cowardly and letting his dad die to a tornado. the reason pa kent dies to a heart attack is because its literally something no matter how hard superman tries he could do nothing to prevent it vs watching his dad die to a tornado and refusing to do something to out himself. obviously that choice bothers me so much

40k mentioned, weeeee

They also Killed the Dark Crystal prequel series. 😢

Shadow and Bone season 1 was awesome. Season 2 suffered from a multitude of things and lost my interest just a few episodes in.

Rebel moon took Star Wars 40k and Dune, mashed them together and attempted to pass it off as original.

I thought playing my Skyrim character using Baldurs Gate 3 rules was bad....

George Lucas took inspiration for "Star Wars" from the Kurosawa film "Hidden Fortress".

The only part I really liked in that movie was the robot character, Jimmy.

do we have to wait for the "Snyder Cut" for it to be good or what?

I have a slight disagreement about what is more important to people, Lore or the Story. There are people who love to dive into the lore first than the story and vise versa, story first then lore. But I will say that in DnD the story have to lead first. Because the player experience is when thier characters interacts with the game, which is the story. If the GM leads with the lore heavy then the players are getting more of a lecture than actully playing.

I haven't watched Part 2, but Part 1 had a lot of unnecessary characters and scenes. What was the point, for instance, of the griffin scene? That griffin didn't get taken along with them and had no further relevance. It was just about making the character look cool, which it still didn't because it used old-style horse-training as a model. That method of "breaking" horses is now widely viewed as abusive, and one session would absolutely not make an animal completely trained or plausible for anyone else to ride. Beyond that, I think there were all of 3, maybe 4 characters who actually mattered to the plot of the first movie. I barely remember them because they were so unremarkable. I think the lesson here is that when writing, you should build up the characters who matter and not worry as much about what might be cool vs. what actually works to advance your characters and plot.

I regret watching the first part so much it was so boring. Now I hear the second part was worse and I almost want to see it out of sheer curiosity. But with some irony the ONLY name I remember from that movie was General Titus. You could show me the pictures with every other character and a half finished hang man of their name and I would not be able to tell you who any of them are. Everyone else from that movie have gotten nicknames from me like "Traitor Girl", "Robot Druid", "Beast Master", or "Rebel Twins"

This should have been a good movie, so much of what was happening could have been good, but it wasn't, I could go into detail, but it's hard to put into words, but making it feel 40k adjacent was the biggest problem

I rather like this movie to DND comparison I'd watch more of these

I thought that her got green lit for 3?

I loved the look of Nemesis but she was so wasted it made me actually irritated.

Sortiara

Meh, it's bad, but it's kind of starship troopers bad... Just get high enough and enjoy the stupid 🤣

no more rebels

I liked the concept of this movie but was so bored with it by the end lmao. Everything moved too quickly to appreciate once the action starts, and way too slowly in all the like people living scenes and the flashbacks and such. Which is saying something coming from me bc I seriously will watch absolute garbage as long as its sci fi bc I want more of the genre so bad. And it's why I watched the whole movie when I really wanted to just stop Knowing that they literally just sit and share their backstories I'm so glad I didn't know part 2 came out bc I probably would've watched that boring crap

Zack Snyder seems to be that one rookie DM that tries to shove in everything he thinks is cool with no rhyme or reason. He's better off running premade modules than his own stuff (read: adapt other people's work rather than make his own stuff wholesale). And even then, the quality is so-so.

"NO MORE REBELS." I'd never thought of DND or TTRPGs in those terms--the terms in which I think of and write fiction. But it makes a lot of sense. And I NEVER start a story with an apocalypse or an imminent one. Unless I'm starting in media res, which is a whole different kettle of fish. And the best in media res-openings also end that way. So, if one is making a story that has an ending, it should start at a beginning point and work its way to that end. And kinda likewise, if a story starts in the thick of the hugest stakes ... it should end before we get the ultimate ending ... how those stakes shake out. Otherwise, it feels rushed or like important stuff was skipped over. People can accept hanging off a cliff forever. They CANNOT accept ... an ending that doesn't feel "earned." Story style shouldn't just change when it's convenient, or else the audience feels cheated--or very confused and unsatisfied, at best. I've barely heard of Rebel Moon--had no clue it was a film. I thought it was a rip-off of Jedi Survivor, or something. But from the sound, Snyder's heart was only in the end of the middle and the very end. So that was the story he told ... with some hand-waving that indicated backstory and character development. Yikes. THANK YOU for this video, Crispy. It was illuminating, and I mean that one hundred percent. And I'll keep it in mind for TTRPGs and for writing. It was never a conscious thought, this "only start in media res if you plan to end there" but it is, now. Even when I wanted to start in the middle or even the end, to get to the good parts, I made myself find a beginning point so I could create a journey where an ending made sense and had HEFT. For myself AND for the reader. It was just more satisfying. Made more sense. What's a destination with no journey? Sounds like Snyder skipped over the very things that make endings really MATTER to an audience. I'll do my best to not forget this wisdom. Thank you, again

They cancelled The Brothers Sun for this!?!?!?! I quit...I just do...

When I saw the trailers for this I thought it was just another shitty Star Wars spinoff. It didn’t even have the Star Wars element but it was so bad I assumed it was one.

The whole scene where every character went around telling their backstories had me laughing out loud from the cringe. I feel that all of Zack Snyder's movies look cool from the trailers, but are all terribly executed. The man has a good eye for creating cool scenes, but he is a terrible story teller.

One thing that bugged me about pt 1 is that all aliens and villains were painted as awful and very often queer-coded (which, ah, says a lot about Snyder's view on LGBTQIA+ people). Like... not even George Lucas went that far with his aliens - most of the ones in his movies are perfectly nice people.

It's ashamed. Space operas are a hard sell given the costs involved.

There is zero buzz on this. He screwed up DC and cost WB time and money. I hope NF boot his ass too.

gonna have to agree to disagree with you on Justice League. That movie is hot garbage and the only reason it has ANY watchability is because of the established characters and dynamics he already had to work with, and the fact that he had a team of editors keeping him in check. like oh boy, if you've seen the Snyder cut of the movie where he puts back in the stuff the editors took out, it is an incoherent, disjointed, meandering MESS.

I'm sorry you lost over 4 hours to dark and edgy garbage and I'm sorry that you might have to deal with more horror stories inspired by it.

Okay, it's not all on Zach Snyder. Let's start with the scripts of the two Rebel Moon movies - they suck!

Ima be honestly, I actually enjoyed the first one and need to watch the second one

It was a truly terrible movie 😭. I had so much hope in the first few cinematic shots they were beautiful 🥲😭.

Snyder gives other Zachs a bad name

Fourth comment

Snyder is a good visual director, but he's a terrible writer.

If you watched the second movie, you'd know their back stories.

Gotta hard disagree with you on this Crispy... It's good and people who can't see why are just boring tbh

I loved both movies and I disagree with this entire vid

Look Chrispy man nothing against you or anything but I don't even pay attention to professional so-called movie critics I never have I'm not going to sit through a video of you reviewing a movie any more than I would for Siskel and Ebert there is one person whose opinion I care about when it comes to movies that person is me