RENAULT'S SIMPLE BUT GENIUS HACK! The Story of the Mass Dampers (2005-2006)
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2 роки томуIn 2005, along with the tyre rules, came the higher front wings to reduce downforce, resulting in cars having to run stiffer at the front end. But because of the stiffer suspension, cars couldn't lob it in over kerbs anymore. Renault noticed this, and decided to fix it.
So they added a weight attached to a couple of springs into the nose cone, and found themselves some performance.
So what was it, and how did it get banned? There's two reasons why. One real, one probably made up. Still fun though.
Enjoy! And remember to like and subscribe for more!
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@danesorensen1775 2 роки тому
While watching the 2006 Hungarian GP at uni - which was of course run in the wet - my housemate noticed I had this weird smirk on my face and asked me what was up. I warned, "You're going to hate me..." but he insisted I say it. So I did: "Renault have lost their mass dampers, but Ferrari have gained a damp Massa." He kicked me out.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
Then Button won 🤣
@speedymouse2859 2 роки тому
I know you're an F1 guy Aidan but I'd love to see something on the FIA GT saga in the 90s (Bernies mucking about and it's eventual end)
@CreamAle 2 роки тому
Motorsports as a whole is welcome tbh. Especially during the off seasons.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
I did some GT Stuff a few months ago.
@speedymouse2859 2 роки тому
@@AidanMillward should've said "mostly an F1 guy that covers all motorsport" 😅
@y_fam_goeglyd 2 роки тому
@@speedymouse2859 all motorsports are welcome, and all related stories gratefully received, eh?
@speedymouse2859 2 роки тому
@@y_fam_goeglyd wasn't meant to look like I was slagging off F1 stories, it's interesting as hell on the technical side, was asking in addition to not instead of
@SilentShark 2 роки тому
Thanks Aiden. For the first time I've seen, someone has actually explained how the mass damper could fall under the classification of 'aerodynamic device'. It's been bugging me since it was banned, as it was entirely internal, it made no sense to me. The highlight of Article 3.15 in particular has cleared it up for me. And I always love a good shady Briatore story 😅
@fourutubez7294 2 роки тому
I was about to post the same thing .
@marklittle8805 2 роки тому
Bristore slimy? Say it isn't so....
@mickcompagnoni1114 2 роки тому
A shady Briatore story, is there another kind?
@LeafFerret 2 роки тому
Engines also had to last 2 consecutive Grand Prixes, BAR parked their cars in Australia and got in trouble for it.
@gabormiklay9209 2 роки тому
07:51 2006 Hungarian GP: there was an accident some laps after the start, involving a Renault. When the marshalls cleared the track, and one of them was carrying the nose cone in his hand, it was visible how heavy that nose cone is.
@Gosub315 2 роки тому
Hey bud, just want you to know that I'm a huge fan here from the U.S. Really dig your stuff. Love your insights and commentary. Love you going out on a limb to cover the U.S. open wheel series/debacle. Just a big fan. Keep up the great work!
@aaronaaronsen3360 2 роки тому
This explained a lot why the mass damper has been banned, I never really understood the official motive. I really like those controversies videos, thank you !
@Heksu99 2 роки тому
Mass damper, DAS, McLaren extra pedal, fan car, F duckt. Great inventions, some get banned when discovered, some after some time. But imagine the monster with all kind of cheeky inventions put in one. Maybe not the fan as it's overpowering to the others.
@6lemans10 2 роки тому
Tyrell P34 six wheeler.😎
@tylerwilliams8391 2 роки тому
i love watching these videos, pretty much always start with some knowledge of the situation and leave with a bunch more! keep at it!
@Neil_Samui 2 роки тому
If Briatore told me it was dark at night, I'd still go out and check
@doomtark8480 2 роки тому
I knew about most teams using the mass dampers but I didn't know why it was banned. Good video Aidan, I appreciate your knowledge.
@ITProjectManagerMan 2 роки тому
You are the MAN Aidan! I just love all your stuff, especially this kind of technical; historical; technical development; rule bending; political maneuvering; backstory intrigue …. Brings back the good old days memories. Thanks so much for not only bringing this type of content to all your fans but doing it in such a entertaining way, even with one hand tied behind your back (damn those restrictive bastards).
@y_fam_goeglyd 2 роки тому
Great video as ever, Aidan. I remember the hoo haa about this when it happened, and though I just couldn't be a Renault fan (for "leading" Italian rather than Spanish reasons, if you catch my drift), I do remember thinking that the rumours that were out - which in the early days of the internet, especially social media (I think I had a blog at the time, and ran some lists on Yahoo...) weren't as easily fuelled as they are now - were describing a very clever bit of kit. I couldn't help but doff my imaginary cap to the engineers. Much as I despise out-and-out cheating, I love new "solutions". That possible Briatore comment - IMHO, it's distinctly possible to the point where we're heading into probability territory. That's exactly the sort of thing he'd say. He's more money driven than Bernie!
@artysanmobile Рік тому
Calling a stabilizer that is not to any degree at all in the airflow “movable aero” is quite a stretch. The exposed suspension arms themselves are unquestionably movable aero by comparison and nobody would dream of outlawing them.
@ianwynne764 2 роки тому
Hello Aidan: Thank you for these stories. I always really like them.
@BertLensch 2 роки тому
Thank you for the explanation of the regulations from back then. There was a lot of argument back on the FormulaPod forums back then about what constituted "movable aerodynamic elements" and I know I was one of the ones guilty of overlooking the rules. Would be interesting to see a retrospective of banned F1 innovations from over the years. Everything from the 6-wheeled Tyrell, to the X-wings, F-duct, and blown defuser.
@dansmith6909 2 роки тому
I enjoyed watching this video. It, like all the videos from this channel, was a good video (if a little disappointingly short). Nice one Aidan ;)
@fearghus66 2 роки тому
Brilliant stuff as always Aidan!!
@stemartin6671 2 роки тому
Even though I knew all about this, it's still great to watch Aidan discuss it!
@Rotwold 2 роки тому
Loved the video! Having a simple graphic that shows the mechanism would've made it even better! Don't know if you make a lot of technical videos so it might not be worth it, but it would be cool to show the graphic while going over the theory of operation. But I'm just a huge engineering nerd and it might not add any value to others. Subscribed!
@martinlampert4721 2 роки тому
Lol that Briatore thing is hilarious! Never heard that before
@ceke 2 роки тому
yes very good breakdown of the mass damper system and its use in the 2005-2006 season.
@blacktoothfox677 2 роки тому
...i enjoyed the video and learned something new... good that you are dropping these like busy owl pellets
@DrangonfruitStudios 2 роки тому
Loving 2022 content mate
@Ziexsn 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video and/or learned something new here today!
@yingyangfeet 2 роки тому
Well done AM, You found yourself a new subscriber.
@WelshAl 2 роки тому
That was a great story ams although I've heard the story before you really found something new. I really felt like I learned something new from this video!
@mehmarcus1995 2 роки тому
Remember the Brabham fan car? The same guy who worked on it opened his own car company, and revealed the T50, a hypercar that has a rear fan for keeping the car sucked to the ground.
@F-Man 2 роки тому
That would be His Mechanical Majesty Gordon Murray, peace be upon Him.
@West4ea 2 роки тому
Worked on? He designed it
@patrickparisienne1917 2 роки тому
Well presented, keep them coming!
@ramirorybczuk9100 2 роки тому
According to the Article 3.15 of the rulebook, an engine is an aerodynamic device.
@matthalliday7629 9 місяців тому
New to the channel. Subbed. Great vid bud
@juli7xxxxx 2 роки тому
Great video! I hope that Briatore part at the end is true :D
@sultanabran1 2 роки тому
i enjoyed the video and learnt something new here today. actually i knew what the mass damper was but i just loved the 2005 renault and fernando.
@philllawrence1580 2 роки тому
Informative as always!
@rich1701 3 місяці тому
The mass damper was inspired by a similar large scale device installed into the Petronas Towers. A large suspended weight at the top of the building designed to counter and stabilise each tower in high winds. Similar devices can be found on modern cruise ships.
@AJSAN1971 2 роки тому
Loved the video and I learned a thing. Will that do? Cheque is in the post I assume?
@willyum6397 2 роки тому
i enjoyed this video and learned something new here today
@charlesrichardson4032 2 роки тому
Don't ever doubt Flavio briatore that man is it true legend . That man had some of the finest birds and never had to pay for them
@TheTWRider 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video and learnt something new as a result of this video.
@Mythbuster3808 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video and learned something new today
@Kefuddle 2 роки тому
Here is my algophilic comment to say thanks! I always wondered what the mass damper was but never got around to looking it up!
@nsperce2496 2 роки тому
Great video Aidan. What is that BTCC mod you have running in the background?
@stevenmacdonald9619 2 роки тому
When you hear stories of the super touring era, it tends to be described as money spending just went crazy, but you rarely hear details of just where that money went, so that part itself is fascinating. I've heard in the past that £120,000 is the starting point for a BTCC car, so the idea that they were spending £500,000 on them is truly nuts. I think the John Motson Trophy for absolutely endless information not in the standard public domain should be extended to motorsport and awarded to Aidan. We do learn something new in every edition. Nothing ever said about Flavio Briatori is ever a surprise 🤣
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
Matt Neal offered himself to Nissan for a factory drive in 1999 for free. Nissan said no and signed Laurent Aiello for 750 grand.
@stevenmacdonald9619 2 роки тому
@@AidanMillward I had heard rumours that F1 Technology was freely used in the Renault Lagunas, but it was hard to see where. They were on a different planet though, it's a shame they didn't find the middle ground. I still love BTCC but it just doesn't have the sting of those times.
@tillmansan 2 роки тому
you do goodwork, Aidan
@sadf1416 Рік тому
good job, nice explanation!
@DonWan47 2 роки тому
Great video. I love this topic, the mass dampers were a bit of engineering genius. I wish they’d stayed in F1
@MrGomez0724 2 роки тому
Keep up the commentary. Good content bud.
@Alan_Hans__ 2 роки тому
A suggestion for a video is a timeline of things that were developed that gained an advantage and then the FIA squashed them. Obviously the mass dampers, fan car and third pedal be among them. It would also be nice to see what effect it had on team performances/placing during the time before they got banned.
@ericHHII 2 роки тому
Love the new intro Aidan
@rotax636nut5 Рік тому
Great, thanks for explaining this
@DocProdusser 2 роки тому
I liked how the clip followed the rules of spacetime
@mbgmadbull1141 2 роки тому
Dammit I was about to sleep but the notification made my shorts a bit tight. Yes I love little technical details like the mass damper
@daytonaexpress7160 2 роки тому
Great video! Thank you
@balljointfd3s 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video or learned something new here today.
@Mr16bit 2 роки тому
More top notch explaining of things, about things
@Slikx666 2 роки тому
Another excuse to watch an old F1 race. 😀👍
@jamesvozar1 2 роки тому
Always great vids Aiden cheers mate, youtube is mad though, this is clearly 'fair use' for the purposes of education, i thought that was a accepted scenario, you know far more than me though. thanks again.
@minibus9 2 роки тому
awesome video
@ijustfelldown 2 роки тому
That was a brilliant idea and it's surprising F1 teams hadn't touched it since almost an entire century of the concept being established.
@thisjamescoker 4 місяці тому
great video!
@F-Man 2 роки тому
Who would win: The Juggernaut Ferrari brain trust of Byrne, Brawn, Todt, and Schumacher or One springy boi
@Titchify Рік тому
I would love to get an actual picture of the unit, as well as an accurate cutaway picture of it.
@lilithhiddenvillain5086 2 роки тому
It was probably Hartley. I swear he got launched into the lithosphere about 4 times that season and it felt like none of them were actually his fault. Also they have a point about the weight being dangerous. Imagine if a crash like Kubica's happened and he had one in the nose.
@davidfabish-wood5278 2 роки тому
What a wonderfully educational and enjoyable video. Thank you Aidan
@Blaghhhhhhhhhhhh 2 роки тому
Can we have some V8SC content. The absolute pinnacle of tin top racing.
@Hesitatedeye 2 роки тому
Flavio: "you need to buy them we own them" Unknown Team Principal: "ok who wants to ban them say Aye" Other Team Principals: "Aye" Flavio: "oh Jesus Christ"
@evant6288 2 роки тому
had to like the vid for "that word" being back
@ehsnils 2 роки тому
I wouldn't be surprised if someone has been able to make a different mass damper solution that's part of the suspension.
@MrPassy4u 2 роки тому
I can see the safety point remembering Justin Wilsons deadly accident
@gregoryjohnson3627 Рік тому
Right on.
@DarrylHart 2 роки тому
Cool video Aidan.
@jsquared1013 2 роки тому
To this day that justification re: moveable aerodynamic influence just doesn't hold water. It is entirely internal to the car, doesn't touch airflow anywhere, doesn't alter the attitude or shape of any aerodynamic device, etc. Its purpose was to stabilize the contact patch of the tires/tyres when driving over the curbs/kerbs. By that kind of twisted logic, nearly any part of the car could be in violation of that regulation. The pistons inside the engine are in violation because they not only affect aerodynamic performance (especially before the now-mandated single-exit-between-the-spars exhaust location) but they are actually in contact with that airflow, albeit in a convoluted manner. Suspension arms are moveable aerodynamic devices. Brake ducts are moveable aero devices. Etc.
@vsm1456 2 роки тому
I agree, their logic is questionable.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
Because they found it affected the air flow over the front wing more than it actually affected the stability of the car over the bumps. The opposite of what happened with the fan car.
@seannewman6046 2 роки тому
@@AidanMillward Why on earth weren't mass dampers banned as movable ballast? See my post above.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
@@seannewman6046 because the PRIMARY FOCUS of the mass dampers was improve front end aero grip.
@ZeGreatStick 2 роки тому
Finally, catastrofuck is back.
@shoominati23 Рік тому
The 05 / 06 Renault has to be my favourite modern F1 colour scheme .. BTW It's good to see that Danger Mouse wasn't the death knell of Penfold's Career!
@gbspikyfish 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video or learned something new here today in the designated comment subscription zone underneath this video. Ahem. I'll get my coat.
@chuckratkay43 2 роки тому
THANK YOU for not saying DAMPENER 🙌
@areasquirrel 2 роки тому
Way too fishy at the time for me. Renault and Alonso were the leaders, and suddenly after this device was banned, hey presto, Ferrari and Schumacher were dominating races like they used to and suddenly title no. 8 seemed nailed on. Is it any wonder that the long held Internet story was that this was the tyre battle of '03 once more. Ferrari International Assistance yet again. Ferrari weren't getting performance from this, Schumacher was going to lose, so ta-da! Banned. I did not know there was work going on to put it at the back, so you'll be pleased to hear that... I learned something. That suddenly makes it a lot easier to accept, as the safety argument about a flying spring makes my eye twitch with memories of what happened with a certain heave spring in Hungary three years later. Almost as if the FIA saw it coming, though not really, if that makes any sense. Moving springs of that form to the rear suspension would have been asking for that to happen every race. Hadn't heard that 'other' story before, either. Sounds like 'billhooks' to me, but then again it's Briatore and we know what a Richard Cranium he can be, so... Yeah I can see why it seems plausible.
@mArvAlcao71 Рік тому
Actually it was McLaren who protested the system. Briatore has said that.
@nathanstroud2223 2 роки тому
I always assumed an aerodynamic device was something that comes in contact with and interacts with the air as the car travels through it, but it sounds like the FIA already had verbiage in their rules that would've made the mass damper illegal from the start.
@5atoru 2 роки тому
I enjoyed the video or learned something new today in the designated comment subscription zone underneath this video.
@SHDW-nf2ki 2 роки тому
Renault: Invents a gadget that could make F1 significantly safer, faster and cooler. FIA: Banned.
@JohnSmithShields 2 роки тому
All hail the return of the catastrofuck.
@Einveldi 2 роки тому
Regarding the Brabham fan car: Gordon Murray, speaking on F1's Beyond the Grid podcast, said that the BT46B satisfied the rules in that more than 50% of the airflow was directed to cooling, and the FIA agreed, although they resolved to change the rulebook for the following year and ban it. The car was withdrawn because team principal Bernie Ecclestone insisted to prevent a split amongst the team principals he needed in his power-struggle to take over F1.
@Furnerfamilyadventures 2 роки тому
Im so curious on the tech BTCC had in the 1990s now.
@itsmeoli3705 2 роки тому
I really enjoyed this extremely educational and informative video. My brain has been, by the content of this video, educated to the point that my entire life has now been fulfilled.
@Digger818 2 роки тому
An algorithm friendly comment saying that I enjoyed the video or learned something new
@MARGATEorcMAULER Рік тому
I love story time so much
@Squilliam-Fancyson 2 роки тому
I enjoyed and learned sth. new!
@gravyboat2370 2 роки тому
Erm...I learned something new today . Is that OK Adrian...what you told us to say 🖒🖒😉😉
@buddyb4343 2 роки тому
I always thought the rules required all the ballast be fixed. (Or you could have a significant weight being actively shifted from side to side per corner.) I spoke of it at the time, but everyone else was still talking about it as an aero issue. Having a weight vibrationally isolated, or tuned, just sitting there, is not the same thing as having an oil pump or dry sump tank, on rubber mounts to keep it from cracking. IDK . . .
@eamonahern7495 2 роки тому
The thing that makes the Briatore bit implausible for me is the fact that you mentioned their was already a patent for a system as early as 1912.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
The patent was filed, doesn’t mean it was granted. Plus the design of Renault’s TMD could have been an all new design and eligible.
@eamonahern7495 2 роки тому
@@AidanMillward Ah! I see...!
@simonn2045 2 роки тому
My prayers were answered, can't believe I didn't spot this for 10 hours
@ZedNinetySix_ 2 роки тому
FINALLY!!!
@noliyoshida7486 2 роки тому
Algorhyming my appreciation
@WesllyOni 2 роки тому
Shady Briatore is best Briatore, I'd like more of those kinds of stories, please
@dextrodemon Місяць тому
seems like a pretty good solution to needing that stiff suspension for ground effect, they should rethink the ban. and it was a bullsht ruling anyway, it moves, but it's not aero, unless suspension is, and they should ban that too.
@raysat7256 2 роки тому
I've always wanted to see what F1 would look like if the mass damper and double diffuser would look like in today's cars. Would of been rockets breaking records every race.
@CroatiaMelbourne1953 2 роки тому
Agreed… In addition to removing all the extra weight, aero constraints, higher-revving engines over the past 18 or so years, not to mention having setups tuned to pace as opposed to driving to prescribed delta’s due to tyre degradation and fuel economy runs. I honestly can’t remember the last time a driver was able to genuinely take a car by the scruff of its neck and show it by having to correct the steering multiple times each corner on every lap
@raysat7256 2 роки тому
@@CroatiaMelbourne1953 exactly. V10's or V12's revving 18-20,000 rpm. Ultra lightweight, that's what F1 is all about. Hybrid era truly wrecked the philosophy of F1. Now they are fat and heavy. Trying too hard to innovate for the everyman. When they should be innovating to be lighter and faster.
@JapanCustomTours 2 роки тому
Briatore, almost as bad as TWR- one of the biggest cheats in motorsport. Great video as always.
@AidanMillward 2 роки тому
Tom wasn’t so much a cheater, more a very shrewd businessman.
@scottmcgilvery8511 2 роки тому
I enjoyed this video …
@zeberto1986 2 роки тому
As long as Renault didn’t get a patent for it the tuned mass damper could be an interesting bit of kit to bring back. Make it a standard part so there’s no development war. It could work very well with the new regs.
@wingracer1614 2 роки тому
A few points: 1. It will be less useful on 2022 and up cars due to the lower profile tires. The main advantage of the mass damper is to damp the oscillations of the completely undamped spring that is the tires. It would still have a positive effect, just less so. 2. Teams have already found other ways to get most of that performance potential via the inerter. Inerters are in a way a tuned mass damper that is directly linked to the suspension, unlike the regular mass damper. 3. The safety concern is legit. How and where they are mounted and housed would have to be tightly regulated. A big chunk of metal in the nose is exactly what killed Justin Wilson
@artysanmobile Рік тому
The mass damper was so ingenious it should have become standard.
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