The Battle of Thermopylae is one of the most significant events in the ancient world-and also one of the least understood. Brought to you by Total War: Arena! Use the code HOPLITE for extra goodies: redir.wargaming.net/wbm6j5va/?pub_id=video1

Me: So wait, one more time, how can you justify slavery? Sparta: in order to give us the free time to devote our lives to the military Me: and why do you need to do that? Sparta: I told you already, because we need to be ready in case of a slave revolt. What, are you slow or something?

Freedom* *Terms and Conditions apply

I love how ' Shut up and pay your taxes ' is such a theme thoughout history

This is one of the few, rare times where somebody has actually depicted Persia realistically and not as the "blood-sucking demons" everybody else has in mind for some reason.

Ah, the three hundred. And their 6700 allies

8:39 Persian emperor: I am your king! Greeks: I didn't vote for you. Greeks: We are an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

The Greeks definitely had a joint ethnic identity prior to Thermopylae- the Olympic Games held since 776 BCE which were strict in only allowing those with Greek heritage to participate demonstrate this.

Actually, from what I was taught at University, the notorious baby-killing may have been done in Archaic times, but it was probably symbolic by the time Persia came knocking. The Spartans did something to commemorate killing babies, or symbolically selected the weak as non-Spartans, but didn't actually kill them.

Xerxes is too short. Where's my golden 9ft God-man? 0/10.

Why let a few wars get in the way of a good alliance

Don't let this video distract you from the fact that we still haven't gotten a Cyrus the Great video (That comment was mostly a joke I love this series)

2:18 Ehhh... this is really exaggerated. Seems like it comes from certain Roman writers who lived quite a bit after Sparta stopped existing, at a time that the Romans looked back on the Spartans as a sort of romantic ideal and exaggerated their features (*cough* Plutarch *cough*). Spartan society remains pretty mysterious due to our lack of primary sources (mainly just Xenophon). There's no doubt Spartan society was very militaristic, but we don't know to what exact extent the second-hand Roman accounts are exaggerated, just that there are too many contradictions to not take them with a pinch of salt. -The whole "Spartan eugenics" thing... The children weren't killed if they failed the inspection by the elders. Instead, they would be "exposed", meaning they are left on their own on the mountainside for a set period of time. If they die during that time, then they're dead. If they survived, then they've proven they're strong enough and get to live as full citizens. This practice was fairly common throughout the ancient world. Including Athens. Note also: ---Spartan king Agesilaus II is known to have been lame from birth but quite obviously wasn't killed as an infant. ---With the manpower problems the Spartiates faced (what with being an oppressive minority that had enslaved the native population of its own country and all), extreme pickiness doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. ---The chasm some claim the elders outright threw the imperfect kids into as an execution has only revealed adult remains, suggesting it was an execution site for criminals instead. -The agoge certainly was militaristic but by no means entirely. They were also educated culturally (reading, writing, music etc) and socially. We can probably thank the Romans and their fanboyism of Spartan masculinity for distorting the image a bit, here. -Spartan military quality is another thing prone to exaggeration, though still very impressive. The Greeks as a whole produced the best heavy infantry of the world at a time and the Spartans were the best among them, but the Spartans were not so far ahead of the other Greeks as it's often made to seem. They did suffer their share of defeats. -The exact treatment of helots is very disputed as well, though certainly the Spartans were (whether or not it was exactly as cruel as some sources make it out) indeed constantly busy keeping them subdued hence the militaristic society. 8:46 Heh, well, the Athenians did a little more than just that. They burned down Sardis, the nearby Persian "provincial capital" in western Anatolia. So that puts Darius' reaction a bit more into perspective. But I guess that had to be cut due to time restraints maybe, you're still essentially right. 9:09 The Spartans indeed didn't want to interrupt their religious festival, but they did send troops when the festival ended. They marched to Marathon at a ridiculously fast pace but still arrived a day late.The Athenians actually made the strange decision to attack before the Spartans had arrived, after they had already been waiting a few days and could have waited one more. But I guess that also couldn't be fit, again you're essentially right. Great video though, just saying stuff because I happen to know it, not as a complaint. I guess this could be "lies" stuff but I'm not sure a miniseries like this will get a "lies" episode.

I think there is something wrong with your depiction of Greek bodies... The Spartans aren’t all topless to show off their abs.

And Leonidas and his 300 Spartans *and other 6 thousand Greek soldiers* would fight them in land.

Now I want to see an Extra History series on ancient Persia.

I find it weird that you depict ancient greecians as darker skinned than persians. As far as I know, they were a mixture of the remnants of ancient Myceneans with outside people that came from the north (leaving their pantheon as a curious mixture of Mycenean gods with northern gods that consolidated and became its own thing).

So in short, 300 is about as historically accurate as Braveheart.

The theatre at Korinth is wrong. Greeks at that time did not have a scene. It was also built into the mountain not from the bottom up. That is a roman theatre.

oh yes, the only extra cedits voice that feels right

“Persia the greatest empire the world has ever seen.” -Roman empire *gets up from chair* “alright bois someone hold my beer”

Dear people who complain about the Greeks' skin colour, War in this era happens in the summer, and Greek soldiers train outside basically everyday. Greece is a very sunny place and as a Greek i can confirm that in the summer, many Greeks (lol not myself, i'm like of the whitest whites) achieve a tan of this colour. Stop beeing so butthurt. Many Thanks.

7:09 Uhhh... The Achemenid empire _did_ have slaves, though: they enslaved rebels and prisoners of war. What you guys probably mean is that they didn't have a slave based economy and slaves were a very small part of the population (especially compared to the Greek city-states)

I'm going to miss you Dan. I really learned a lot from this channel thanks to you and the crew. I hope you have good luck in your next endeavor.

Many many years ago When Persia came ashore Hearing Leonidas' call The Spartans went to war

I'm glad you talked about the plight of the Helots. I've always had a problem with people who thought Spartan Society was 'good'. It was built on cruel, brutal slavery and a complete lack of value on human life.

Extra History, the only series where I go "Yay, I'm so excited that there is a new Extra History series on [x]" where I have no clue what [x] actually is.

Super hyped for this series! So many myths surrounding Thermopylai. Really intrested to see your take on it!

The most unbiased description of the events I have heard thus far! Thank you!

Many many years ago, when Persia came ashore Heeding Leonidas' call, the spartans went to war Joined by their brothers, a few against the fateful horde Hellenic hearts are set aflame, the hot gates calls their name A final stand, stop the persians, spear in hand Form a wall, live to fall, and live forever [Chorus] Sparta! Hellas! Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men Slaughter! Persians! Glory and death, spartans will never surrender [Verse] Morning has broken, today they're fighting in the shade When arrows blocked the sun they fell, tonight they dine in hell By traitor's hand, secret passage, to their land Know his name, know his shame will last forever [Chorus] Sparta! Hellas! Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men Slaughter! Persians! Glory and death, spartans will never surrender [Guitar Solo] [Chorus] Sparta! Hellas! Then, and again. Sing of three hundred men Slaughter! Persians! Glory and death, spartans will never surrender

Wait, are you saying Frank Miller lied to me? Im shocked. Did the Spartans at least wear no body armor and kick messengers into giant holes?

In a little over ten minutes, this video has taught and entertained me more than a certain film that told a version of these events. Keep up the great work.

always love the different view of historical events. keep up the good work

There was a third social Class under Spartan Rule, the Perioci/ Perioeci. They were free People, non-citizens who lived in the Settlements around Sparta. They farmed the Land, practiced various craftmanships, like Pottery, tailoring and Carpentry, production of weapons and armours and they also formed the backbone of the Spartan/ Lacodaimonian Army in the later years of the Terretory under spartan Rule.

Next do Alexander the Great. Your Greece stuff is awesome and a long Justinian-like series about Alexander would be awesome to see

From all the Greeks watching your channel: σας αγαπάμε και σας ευχαριστούμε

I just came from the Malian Empire video and its so funny how "we can't talk about Mali's participation in the slave trade because the transatalantic slave trade was 'uniquely cruel' and complex". Yet, here, you gave a short rundown of Sparta's complex society and cruelty of the helot system in about sixty seconds.

That feeling when your giant empire fails to invade a handful of city states

Really happy to see that Dan is finishing up his time as Extra's voice with some _really_ stellar stuff. What a fitting send off for him to explore one of the most iconic struggles in ancient history. 😊 I'm loving this to no end!

Your presentation and points are very clear. Thanks for this excellent work.

It's kinda weird how you made all the geeks dark skinned. Even darker than the Persians. They were probably both light skinned, like today.

Im glad you guys didn't just show the Greek side and demonize the Persians like everyone else

Every one of these videos is a shining gem of both history and storytelling. I wish I didn't find this channel so soon so that I could just sit and binge on it's wonder rather than wait between videos. Of course I'm kidding. You guys do amazing work, and I watch every video as soon as it comes out. Never stop.

I have a suggestion for a future Extra History if I may. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

When talking about contemporary understanding of "slavery" it's interesting to note that for "greek" city states, the idea of paying taxes was considered a form of slavery. Which is why the persian satrapies that had to pay a tax to the king of kings were seen by the hellenes as being enslaved. At least that's one nuance to it.

So about Persia and slavery. The Persians didn't seem to practice slavery as stated. At least not for heavy labor at this point in time. There might have been domestic slavery, but overall the Persians didn't seem to at least practice it en masse. That didn't mean there was no slavery in Persia. Their subjects were free to keep their practices, though Persians also released slaves from some enemies that had stubbornly defied them. Basically it's not a complete "no slaves in Persia", more a "Persians at this point in time didn't seem to practice it, at least not on large scale".

Thank you for the code! I’ve been playing Total War Arena for some time and it is fun!

I really love your content. Keep up the good work, guys!!!!

I watched a video that stated that the Spartans were actually not known to be exceptionally good warriors prior to Thermopylae. I think it said that the Thebians were actually the super warriors of the time and the Spartans created this myth about their superiority only after the battle. I did not research any of this myself, but the video seemed pretty well informed. If I find it again I'll update this comment, provided anyone gives a shit.

oh my god im so glad about this series i love this time period. Also I really want to see the campaigns of Cesar

Video far better and more accurate than what i expected. Keep up the good work!

Yes! Glad you're finally talking about this

THIS IS (a well-reasoned discussion on how Athens and) SPARTA (unified against a common enemy and established a Greek identity)!!!

It’s always so interesting how these ancient conquerors have such divergent reputations based on the geographical placement.

As always, an excellent episode! So often, the background events that lead up to the "historical" one, get lost in the telling.

I really appreciate the captions. Very polished and professional.

Can you please make something about Cyrus the great?

8:16 So efficient it brakes after death of the Alexander. Bravo!

Keep doing you Extra Credits. Fantastic work.

Ok, so I'm going to go over a lot about Sparta that is being discussed in the last 20 or so years of academia. But first, the good. You didn't add the famous lambda to their shields! Awesome job, that wasn't the Spartan standard until much later. Anyway, so there are some flaws with the idea that the Spartan state developed as the Spartans because they feared a helot uprising. That was what people thought, but it doesn't really seem to hold water. Now the major problem with all of this is that we just don't have the Spartan's writing on any of this, so all we really know about them comes from outsiders (usually Athenians) commenting on how awesome or how horrible they were. Thucydides the disgraced general who just lost a war against Sparta portrays them as poorly educated hypocritical monsters. While Xenophon the Athenian who joined a Spartan mercenary band, befriended the Spartan king, and had his son raised in the Agoge loves them. Alright so the Helots. In the old histories the militarization of Sparta is said to have happened because they needed a way to control the unruly helots. Here's the problem, they had conquered the helots for over a century before the heavy militarization occurred. What actually seems to have been the precursor was several failed wars in a row against their neighbors. There's also the problem that during this time, the Spartans armed the helots to fight for them. Even in the account of Plataea we are told of phalanxes of helots brought by the Spartans. Now the stories of the brutality of the Spartans going into helots homes and murdering is one of the accounts of the krypteia. This also has a problem. There are 4 accounts that mention the Krypteia, only they talk about 3 completely different things. Plutarch who was a Roman writing hundreds of years after the Spartans had become little more than a freak show is the one who talks of the krypteia as the secret police of helot murderers. Most modern historians are very careful when using Plutarch. Now, Plato also mentions the Krypteia as a rite of passage into manhood. Where the young man would have to survive in the wilderness without food or aid for several days. And still another account gives the krypteia as a military unit that fought in a few battles with no real distinguishing features. So, did the Spartans go in and kill helots? Probably, but not as much as we're lead to believe. Recent archeological evidence indicates that the territory that we sort of group as Messenia where the "Messenian" helots lived was open farmland well outside the power structures of daily Spartan life. The archeology seems to indicate that they were treated far more like serfs than the brutalized slaves. So where did the tales of Spartan brutality come from? Well, throughout the centuries where the Spartans controlled the helots there were two major revolts. The one we know more about only occurred when Sparta suffered a massive earthquake, weakening their manpower and increasing the burden of crops on the helots who were also affected by the earthquake. This, unsurprisingly, lead to revolt. And this is the time period where accounts of the Spartan brutality actually begin. There really isn't any before this point. And they cracked down on the helots hard. But things like the secret police and yearly declarations of war seem to be the invention of later authors trying to make a point about Sparta's political system. Ok, second thing. I know you were probably being poetical, but the Spartan soldiers were not unquestioning. There seems to have been some really hard to explain conflict where the Spartans were enforced to do what is best for the city-state above all, and to find personal glory. With the advanced military command structure and everyone in the society having knowledge of military tactics we actually get more than a few accounts of the Spartan sub-commanders completely ignoring their orders to do what they thought would be more beneficial. And usually this seems to have been considered a good thing, it helped win a couple battles. Then finally, because I'm running out of time. Spartans as the best heavy infantry of their time period is debatable. Now, there is some good evidence you can point to, to enforce this idea. This was in middle of a period when the Spartan army when marshaled had not lost a battle in 175 years. Which, as far as I am aware is a record that has never been matched. However, the Spartan honor guards and certain skirmish engages they seem to have performed about as well as any other cities honor guard. And we know that the Spartan honor guard was more of a prize for political and social means rather than just skill. So, a better comparison would be saying that each Spartan army unit as a whole was about as good as anyone else's best. The easiest example to point to is the battle of the 300 Champions between Sparta and Argos. 300 warriors fought on each side, at the end of the battle Argos had 2 left. Sparta had 1. Which is close enough to even that I'd say there really doesn't seem to be much skill difference. However, when the full Argos and Spartan armies fought later that week the number of combatants was supposedly even and the Spartan crushed their opponent. Anyway, really enjoyed the video.

"Funny thing about those slavers of Persia, they didn't own slaves." Um, how specific is that? Because I'm pretty sure the Persians did have slaves in some capacity. Every ancient civilization did.

Spartan elder: this ones left hand isn’t as big as it’s right on... Every single spartan in a 12 mile radius: YEET!

I learm this in Classics and watching this video taught me soooooo many new things about it, thanks alot🙏🙏

So excited for the rest of this series.

THIS IS.... ..something I've been waiting for! Yay! :D

Maybe you are pushing it a little too far on Greek identity being non-existent, since the Persian invasion started as a punitive expedition against the mainland Greeks that had helped the Greeks under Persian rule in a rebellion. We also know that the Greeks understood each other's dialect pretty easily, maybe with the exception of the Aetolian-Northwestern Peloponnese region. The Greeks had been united under a common state before the Bronze Age collapse, and Homer describes in his epics a clear sense of Greek identity. * Also that thing about Spartans killing babies may be a myth. *2 Even if it's not said in the video it gives the vibe that Athens overthrew its monarchy in a French style. Athenian transition to democracy was quite gradual, with the deposition of the king being explained in myths as: "there was nobody good enough to succeed such a great king".

Just learned about this in school can't wait to see your explanation and series on it! Big FAN

EXTRA CREDITS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?! XD Anyway, it's nice you go on this as I love this part on Ancient Greek history, something that's radically different from the awesome movie we all know. Keep it up, EC!

I know this is 2 years later but I just have to say as a Greek, we are not that tanned dude most Greeks are pretty pale, myself included

Spartan is the best heavy infantry in the ancient world... Alexander's perfected phalanx : Hold my beer

2:12 Being more extreme than impromptu shark riding is all well and good, but it was the "12" on the side that had me in stitches.

Yes yes yes yes this is the best thing ever! Thank you so much!!

Excellent video as always, but I would like to point out that in school we learned that Athenian slaves were worse off that their Spartan equivalents. Spartan "είλωτες" enjoyed various privileges like living with their families, being allowed to marry whomever they wanted and raise their children. They also got to keep half of whatever money they made, and could buy their freedom. The word Athenians used for their slaves, "δούλοι" , translates to: he who is no human like the rest, but mere property of some owner. Not sure about this one, if someone has more knowledge on the topic, I would love to hear it.

"What happened to the warriors at Thermopylae?" "Dead to the last man."

Thank you guys so much Many of your videos got me through 7th grade

Can't wait for the next vid!

About time Greece was about to get it's due.

I like how you guys used AoE town halls to represent city states. In other words, great job ! Age of Empires *REPRESENT !*

Yes I love you for this I can’t wait for more!

For the people discussing about skin color, there are some surviving greek paintings and mosaics (ver very few) and some roman mosaics that are believed to be copies from Greek paintings, it's always good to see how people represent themselves. I personally love Alexander mosaic, there is a video in smarthistory about it.

I want to add something. Although Greeks were not together as a nation. They shared the common name "Greeks"= Έλληνες. So they knew they had pretty much the same nationality

Yay, Sparta and the 300* *And the thousands of other Greeks

2 days ago was the 2500th anniversary of this event

I feel that it's worth mentioning that while, yes, Spartan boys were trained hard from an early age, they were not just trained for war, every Spartan boy was trained in poetry and matters of statecraft. Every boy was expected to at some point be able to fill the roles within the Great Rhetra. From Gerousia (elders) to Ephors. To simply being able to function as part of the Apella.I am not saying Sparta was flawless, they were indeed brutal and extreme. But boys were taught more than to fight.

For all the idealization that Spartan warrior culture gets it wasn't a system that could last. The rising numbers of helots meant that Sparta could never send a big army far away. They also couldn't afford to take losses. When your whole system is based on fear it only takes a small show of weakness before it starts breaking down. The Spartans were also inherently conservative and thus unable to innovate or recognize the innovations of others. They couldn't keep up as the techniques of war evolved. In the end they ended up as a backwater, only notable because others liked to come there and watch their system in motion. They basically became a tourist destination.

I love the phrase "dual monarchy", because it's not monarchy... It's duarchy

Persia, the greatest empire the world has ever known was about to invade greece Roman Empire: Did someone say something?

Thank you so much - I have an exam on the Persian Wars next week!!

Tbh it seems like Persia were the good guys.

Spartans killing weak babes is a myth. Sparta relied more on overwelming the enemy than elite soldiers (that was argos).

probably a good idea to mention the spartan mirage as well, but really great episode!!

One of the very interesting topics to cover would be the Roman conquest of Greece. Very few people have covered it and the political conclusions you can draw from it are incredible

I love that you guys got the long hair on the spartans. Too many instances of pop culture miss out on that.

Obligatory "this is sparta" memes

Argh damn you and your awesome story telling! Every episode ends in goosebumps!

Excellent video as always. Possible future topic, the Battle of the Plains of Abraham/ the Seven Years War.

0:52: Damn, that was a long intro for Extra history. It might even be the longest one they've ever made. Tell me if I'm wrong

It's important to note that most of what we know about the Persian War comes from Herodotus, who wasn't alive during the war, and also greatly exaggerated things like the size of the Persian army. Ancient historians often didn't have the same conception of rigorous history as we do, and even the better ones like Thucydides made stuff up at points

Will say Dan, it's great to hear you again. I will say though Matt is doing fantastic!

I like how the mentioning of Persian labor is mentioned but the omission of the killing of people who failed or the infamous "flog the river" shenanigans. Overall good ep, if you want a more expansive version of this which encompasses this period from Cyrus to Xerxes II id recommend Dan Carlins series called "King of Kings."