The most important CONSONANT in English

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Dr Geoff Lindsey

Dr Geoff Lindsey

День тому

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Secrets of what I consider the most important consonant in English, the various ways it's made, and how it differs from other language.
0:00 Introduction
1:40 Important meanings
3:05 Important endings
4:32 Loudness differences
5:00 Surfshark
6:12 UCL's anechoic chamber
7:24 Spectrograms
9:16 Awkward combinations
9:48 months
11:12 Assimilation: howzat
11:52 TH-fronting
13:07 English and Spanish
14:05 English and Japanese
15:57 Articulation: reality check
18:39 The alternative: lips!
Thanks to:
Gordon Mills of Psychology & Language Sciences, UCL
Hernán Ruiz for help with Spanish
Prof. Masaki Taniguchi for help with Japanese
Animation of vocal tract by Speech Graphics • Speech Graphics' Simon...
British National Corpus www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/

КОМЕНТАРІ: 1 400
@FreakyRufus
@FreakyRufus 13 днів тому
The Japanese heavy metal group Babymetal has a song called “Babymetal Death”, which is really just them introducing themselves. “Babymetal desu” becomes “Babymetal Death” when sung to heavy metal music.
@qwertzy121212
@qwertzy121212 13 днів тому
What a psychotic thing to say ​@@ivo9202
@HermanBelmer
@HermanBelmer 13 днів тому
@@ivo9202 what a strange thing to say
@chocoholicbeverage
@chocoholicbeverage 13 днів тому
@@ivo9202 what an unusual statement to utter
@marrow94
@marrow94 13 днів тому
@@ivo9202 they’re 25
@KarlDeux
@KarlDeux 13 днів тому
Well as a group you'd rather say "The Japanese heavy metal group Babymetal haVE a song", as a group is plural. Btw, no prob, everybody understood ;) I was lucky enough to watch them on stage last December. I was amazed also by the audience, with family, old hard rock looking people, very young ones as well. BabyMetal are strange, but they are actually universal though very unique.
@DaveChurchill
@DaveChurchill 13 днів тому
That transition to the sponsor was a masterclass. Well done
@stuchly1
@stuchly1 12 днів тому
All of those sounds in one sentence. Nice.
@bearcubdaycare
@bearcubdaycare 11 днів тому
Good match of sponsor to topic.
@noelleggett5368
@noelleggett5368 13 днів тому
There is a famous story about Marlene Dietrich and her ‘battle’ with English ‘th’. When filming her breakout movie, Blue Angel, in 1930. Dietrich was playing a cabaret singer, and had trouble with lyric with a song that she had to sing in the movie. She just could not get her mouth around the ‘ths’ combination in the line; “Like moths around a flame”. After several failed takes, the director, Josef von Sternberg, solved the problem by having an extra in the movie call out for a waiter at the moment she sang the word ‘moths’, obscuring her voice for a spit second. ‘Blue Angel’ became a classic of European cinema, and the song, ‘Falling in Love Again (Can’t Help It)’ became a worldwide hit, and Marlene Dietrich’s signature tune. The poor woman had to wrestle with that English consonant combination for the rest of her life.
@virtuous-sloth
@virtuous-sloth 13 днів тому
I'd be interested in Dr Lindsey speak with ventriloquists about th-s-sh and alternative ways of making them, since I imagine ventriloquists need that skill.
@starkeclipse
@starkeclipse 3 дні тому
Oooh yeah. That would be fascinating. Ventriloquism replacement hacks overall would be a fascinating topic.
@qwertywillbecool
@qwertywillbecool 13 днів тому
That advert blend was impeccable lol
@Jake-ek8qp
@Jake-ek8qp 13 днів тому
I literally laughed out loud and went to like the video, but I'd already liked it.
@curtbushman7842
@curtbushman7842 13 днів тому
The original advertisement in its entirety is even better. ukposts.info/have/v-deo/aH2Gp4yakJ52s40.htmlsi=9BSdTiJEhZHTLzxi
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 13 днів тому
maybe he only ac/s/epted their /s/pon/s/or/ʃ/ip when he found the right topic, like /ð/i/s/ one!
@akkay47
@akkay47 13 днів тому
I didn't see any advert? Oh that's right, I have SponsorBlock.
@DavidFrankland
@DavidFrankland 13 днів тому
@@akkay47 Cheers! I'm going to investigate before UKposts deletes your comment.
@tottoriteal9661
@tottoriteal9661 13 днів тому
The more I watch Dr Lindsey’s videos, the more I become frustrated by language education. I’ve come from studying English at a young age to today living in an English-speaking country and no longer considering myself a “learner”, yet throughout the entire time, I was not told how to pronounce “clothes” or “months” and always thought it was my “th” prononciation. Anyone studying English needs to be shown Dr Lindsey’s videos at a very early stage.
@atriyakoller136
@atriyakoller136 13 днів тому
I remember just struggling with those words so much even when explained how to pronounce them. Eventually I practiced them so much and heard them enough to be able to automatically pronounce them. As a language teacher I'm frustrated by language education as well. I feel like the only place where you can study a language in-depth and go into all the nooks and crannies is a linguistic university and the department of the language in question. In any other place you are just not given enough hours for the phonetics.
@carolinejames7257
@carolinejames7257 13 днів тому
Many native speakers have exactly the same problem. We're not taught how to pronounce them, we just pick them up in childhood. If your local dialect uses 'muvver' instead of 'mother', that's probably how you'll pronounce that word despite the fact you can actually produce the 'th' sound. Which is fine. 😁 But if you have a parent who constantly mispronounces certain words or sounds (through lack of education, poor reading skills, mishearing a word and then persistently mispronouncing it, etcetera) then you may well pick up those errors and keep using them (even when exposed to standard forms or corrections at school or elsewhere) and pass them on to your own children. A certain amount of that happens all the time, which can be one way language changes. But others are so glaringly erroneous (not a dialect or local idiom) as to obscure meaning, cause confusion, or lead to deleterious impressions in, for example, job interviews. Believe me, it's not a problem confined to second language learners.
@ealusaid
@ealusaid 13 днів тому
My niece still struggles a lot over her -ths endings. I'm so excited to see if this approach helps her any, because her older brothers definitely act like it's the th sound she's got wrong.
@yurisei6732
@yurisei6732 13 днів тому
Language is so complex and inconsistent that I think it's fair enough that there are some words you just have to stumble into getting right as you go.
@idjles
@idjles 13 днів тому
He is a linguist and most teachers have never studied linguistics. It's like asking a school teacher how a computer or pen works - they just use them, they don't understand the engineering. A Linguist is a language engineer. And that is why most language learning in a classroom context is terrible, because it's taught with teaching principles, not linguistic. For Example the CELTA training has a 25%:25%:25%:25% focus on listening, speaking, reading and writing, when in reality language learning is probably more like 90% listening, 3% speaking, 7% reading and 0.1% writing.
@Dr_Mel
@Dr_Mel 13 днів тому
It never occurred to me that the finger to the lips when shushing someone is, intentionally or unintentionally, enhancing the potency of the shush.
@CraftIP
@CraftIP 13 днів тому
I thought it was symbolic but I really like the hypothesis of it making the shhh louder
@widmo206
@widmo206 13 днів тому
That actually works
@CallMeMrChainmail
@CallMeMrChainmail 12 днів тому
You put your finger on your own mouth?
@NeonBeeCat
@NeonBeeCat 12 днів тому
​@@CallMeMrChainmailas opposed to, someone else's mouth? Someone else's fingers???
@swored.
@swored. 12 днів тому
@@NeonBeeCat😂 who knows
@sierranicholes6712
@sierranicholes6712 13 днів тому
my boyfriend is french, and although he has lived in america for ~16 years now, he still drops the final -s off of words!! i've always found it really interesting!
@allme2547
@allme2547 13 днів тому
A while back, I watched a vid of a couple (Guy was from the South. Girl was from the North) that compared their drastically different way of pronouncing certain words. Maybe you also could make a vid as a couple that showcases something similar!
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 13 днів тому
probably also a result of french not pronouncing the s anyway except in liaison, so "boîte" and "boîtes" are both said /bwat/
@sierranicholes6712
@sierranicholes6712 13 днів тому
@@notwithouttext yeah i think this is the main reason!!! and he mostly does it for plurals, i think because in french there are typically other markers for when a word is plural (adjectives, articles) that he like subconsciously doesn't view the plural -s ending as being meaningful compared to other -s endings
@Darxide23
@Darxide23 13 днів тому
My girlfriend is a French speaking Belgian and she has the opposite problem. She adds the S sound unnecessarily to the end of a lot of plural words that normally don't get an -S. We have been talking about sushi a lot recently and she says "suishis" instead. Although like most French speakers, her 'th-' is nonexistant and replaced with a 'd' instead, so she doesn't have the problem described in this video with the weak S and SH sounds. She is just fine with those. It's the TH she simply cannot pronounce.
@emiliog.4432
@emiliog.4432 13 днів тому
I am a student of language and all the variations, regional accents, provincialisms, and the interesting way words are used and invented. I think language is more important than mathematics.
@FairyCRat
@FairyCRat 13 днів тому
TH-fronting definitely is a thing for some non-natives. My French dad once walked into an Indian restaurant in Dublin meaning to ask for "a table for three" but instead requesting "a table for free", which the lady found hilarious.
@badaboum2
@badaboum2 13 днів тому
It's even permeated french popular culture to some extent, like the 90s boys band "2Be3" was a play on "to be free".
@timolson4809
@timolson4809 13 днів тому
This was probably also the case of being in Ireland, where “th” is instead pronounced as an ejective t, the opposite of th fronting.
@Nikola_M
@Nikola_M 13 днів тому
Voiceless th turning into f is also in Austrian accents. (Voiced th by the way turns into d)
@KittyHerder
@KittyHerder 13 днів тому
I have had Irish coworkers who call it "tree".
@FairyCRat
@FairyCRat 13 днів тому
@@timolson4809 An ejective? While in Dublin, I've heard it more pronounced as a typical dental stop, though it probably does sometimes occur as an ejective word-finally.
@dominusalicorn3684
@dominusalicorn3684 13 днів тому
Oh my goodness, 4:56 was THe Smoothest transiTIOn to an ad I've ever seen
@Sokrabiades
@Sokrabiades 13 днів тому
I know. That was so sick. This should be the top comment.
@JohnWilliams-gy5yc
@JohnWilliams-gy5yc 8 днів тому
/*_S_*/moo/*_TH_*/e/*_S_*/t /*_S_*/pon/*_S_*/or /*_S_*/egue
@patrickhodson8715
@patrickhodson8715 13 днів тому
You literally said “it’s just finished” (2:50) like within 3sec of my laundry finishing in the other room
@widmo206
@widmo206 13 днів тому
_There are no accidents_ - Master Oogway
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
I'm the giant from Twin Peaks
@TestUser-cf4wj
@TestUser-cf4wj 6 днів тому
​@@DrGeoffLindseythank for being a Twin Peaks fan
@ZuyFean
@ZuyFean 13 днів тому
As a native Polish speaker, where we have a triple contrast between "s", "sz" (english "sh") and "ś", I felt like these sounds didn't ever pose a problem for my pronunciation. Polish does not, however, have "th". This led me to coping with it for a long time by saying "dat" or "fenk you". Living in the US right now I feel I've improved at both voiced and unvoiced variants of "th", but I think I still pretty often retreat to "d" and "f" when speaking more quickly. Your video was very helpful for my understanding why my Japanese friends would often baffle me by pronouncing "senk you" where my Polish brain would expect "f".
@InertialMass685
@InertialMass685 12 днів тому
Fanks! You'd be OK in the UK! Most youth - not just in London (where it began) - now pronounce unvoiced th as 'f'. It is stereotyped as "lower class" speech, immigrant speech, working class speech, etc which can give the impression (prejudice, of course) that the speaker is ill-educated, lazy or a bit unintelligent. I don't like it to be honest but understand it might be difficult for people who have never been taught properly (there are a lot of bad teachers at school!) or whose parents also can't pronounce th (a lot of immigrant families, for example) . I am working-class - growing up in a poor area where English speechcraft and elocution was not the best - but I make the effort to pronounce th properly. I find it quite empowering to speak a language well. When learning Spanish I went to great lengths to ask native Spanish how exactly they articulate particular sounds in their mouths. I think good pronunciation is more important than 100% correct grammar in being understood.
@danutagajewski3330
@danutagajewski3330 12 днів тому
As a Brit-born Pole I used to cringe when my parents and grandparents couldn't pronounce "th." It was either just a t (tank you) or d (dere). Conversely, my issue was with the triple contrast with the s/sz/ś, which to my ear was either s or sh. I'm in my 70s now...and thankfully can manage those contrasts, although not without many tears "tanks" to my mother's insistence on Polish elocution lessons!
@retrobubblegum
@retrobubblegum 12 днів тому
Actually, English "sh" sound is somewhere between Polish "sz" and "ś" which is why native English speakers have great difficulty distinguishing the two. Poles, on the other hand, tend to replace "sh" with Polish "sz" in English words. Funnily enough, I noticed that older generations of Poles pronounce the voiced "th" as "z" rather than "d" (so "zis" and "zat" not "dis" and "dat") - not sure when and why it changed, could be a fun thing to examine more deeply.
@arkadiuszfilipczyk488
@arkadiuszfilipczyk488 12 днів тому
As others have explained, sz is not sh, you can quickly see in Wikipedia what the difference is. But moving from established facts to my personal experience, there is a funny thing going on with how Polish (me) and English (Aussies) speakers hear each other's sounds. I hear English sh usually as sz. If I had not learnt better, I would too think that they are the same sounds. And ś to me sounds very different. So usually, like most Poles, I use my sz in English words that call for sh. However, interestingly, Aussies often hear my sz as s. If I want to make sure they hear sh, I actually use ś.
@ZuyFean
@ZuyFean 12 днів тому
@@arkadiuszfilipczyk488 I just read about the difference, that's pretty interesting. Wikipedia also states there are some regional Polish dialects that merge sz and ś into the sh sound, and the same for the voiced variants - rz and ź merge into the sound found for example in English viSIon - where I always used the "rz" sound.
@austingee238
@austingee238 13 днів тому
I am an American from deep in the Ozarks. I pronounce “months” as “munts” and “month” as “munt”. Didn’t realize it until I moved somewhere else. Crazy.
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 13 днів тому
For me it switched from Month -> /mɒ̈̃fs/ (sometimes with another n/m) in the singular... mʌ̈nθ̼ ... As f and θ̼ for me are treated as allophones as a last syllable. So I can tell the difference in first syllables, second, but not third. The nasal quality happens time to time due to stressing certain parts and a more closed mouth position.
@WolfA4
@WolfA4 12 днів тому
I'm a native new yorker and I say "munfs", same for other similar th words like ninety-fird, and "maf" instead of math.
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 12 днів тому
@@WolfA4 ._. For me, it just nasalized. Though Ninety-Three is much like " naindɨθɾ̥ï: " ( sometimes the N just becomes nasalized ). Typically in the possessive/plural, the vowel typically becomes more open. So an unintentional consequence of sort of needing a long vs. short system is due to vowels voicing or leniting consequences. So a soft glottal or d comes out.
@lindickison3055
@lindickison3055 10 днів тому
Also Ozarks.Do say 'munts'(kinda awkwardly tongue-y to say months . But we do say 'munth'. I'm frequently accused of saying "thang"! Can't do "thing" without stopping midsentence!!
@austingee238
@austingee238 10 днів тому
@@lindickison3055 I’m from that portion of the Ozarks that kinda sounds like a hillbilly from Appalachia had a baby with somebody from the heart of Saint Louis; tal’n ‘bout “babe, whurr’s my car keys, ya say’n ’em?”
@lanasinapayen3354
@lanasinapayen3354 13 днів тому
As a French speaker of English, Japanese, and Spanish, who is hypnotized by spelling and scared of th, this video was awesome
@David_Robert
@David_Robert 9 днів тому
Hello 👋How are you doing today?
@sb792079
@sb792079 13 днів тому
I’ve been making the “bottom lip S” this entire time, and I never noticed! I was so confused for 80% of the video because the mouth shapes didn’t look what I was used to doing at all.
@markfoskey
@markfoskey 13 днів тому
I do it the "teeth way", and I tried using the "lower lip" approach and found it really hard! I guess we get a lot of practice making speech sounds.
@Darxide23
@Darxide23 13 днів тому
It now makes a lot more sense to me why some people's S sound is so... unattractive and grating to my ear. It's the lower lip S doing it and I never knew that was a thing.
@Zederok
@Zederok 13 днів тому
As someone who was unfortunately born with a pronounced underbite and even less unfortunate losing my front teeth in my early 30's in a work place accident I have always used the bottom lip to produce S. This video was astounding and very informative.
@clearlieme
@clearlieme 13 днів тому
Me too! And I tried to do the high tongue S and really struggle without pulling an absolutely insane face to accomodate
@Selieca
@Selieca 13 днів тому
I always thought that an S was made using the teeth, but I've just tried it while moving my bottom lip. Apparently, even though my tongue is in the "teeth" position, the actual sound is due to my lip
@konstanzavalenzuelasanhuez4763
@konstanzavalenzuelasanhuez4763 12 днів тому
there's a kid book (i think it's from the narnia's series) where the protagonist is trying to hide with another person, and they decide to speak without the "s" because they sound too loud even when you're whispering.
@twilightmist7369
@twilightmist7369 12 днів тому
Yes, it was the last Narnia book, The Last Battle. One of the characters said thee instead of see, because it was quieter.
@cboneperlstone9661
@cboneperlstone9661 13 днів тому
The segue to the ad was incredible. I was floored with the smoothness
@ChelseyK1ng
@ChelseyK1ng 13 днів тому
Russian English learners often substitute "th" with "s" and "z". Not so much "f" and "v". Just an interesting fact.
@jezalb2710
@jezalb2710 12 днів тому
​@@ChelseyK1ngwe Slavic folks tend to pronounce "th" differently. Depending whether it is : Soft "th" - like in: thank you. Hard "th"- like in: then/than
@jadziajagoda6187
@jadziajagoda6187 13 днів тому
Dr Lindsey, you’re worth your weight in gold. I was learning RP pronunciation, but gave up when it came to „s” sound. Even though I don’t have a lisp, I just couldn’t do the „s” sound the way the articulators were shown on the mouth cross-section image. I was thinking, either I do have a lisp, or I’m mental, or deaf, but I can’t reproduce the sound the way which is shown, even though I seem to achieve the same effect in some different way... Now it’s all clear, and I even can make the „s” closer to English way ☺️
@MatthiasGorgens
@MatthiasGorgens 13 днів тому
Are you sure you are learning RP pronunciation? Basically no one speaks RP these days, and it's not really taught either. (They are probably teaching you some contemporary prestige accent of British English, and just call it RP. See some of the other videos of Dr Lindsey for more background on RP.)
@timosalo5003
@timosalo5003 13 днів тому
The case of RP… For us non-English, ”received pronunciation” sounds so natural, modest, time tested and uncomplicated that we don’t suspect any privilege (not to mention a fad) being involved. Promoted by public schools, you know.
@MatthiasGorgens
@MatthiasGorgens 13 днів тому
@@timosalo5003 No. Listen to some actual RP. Dr Lindsey has some examples in some of his videos. You are mixing it up with modern prestige dialects.
@Ezullof
@Ezullof 13 днів тому
You were sinking? How did you get help?
@WitchOracle
@WitchOracle 13 днів тому
​@@timosalo5003 just a note that "public schools" in England refer to schools for the elites. "Public" in this case refers to the fact that they are open to students of any denomination or location, but they are not publicly funded, there are tuition fees.
@TerezatheTeacher
@TerezatheTeacher 13 днів тому
My English phonetics teacher at uni told me I had a lisp, which completely shocked me. I even saw a speech therapist, who quickly gave up, saying that my front teeth are just hella weird. She made me put the tip of my tongue behind my lower front teeth, which is what all the diagrams show for Czech /s/, but I just can't produce the right sound like that. Made me realize I pronounce the English /s/ when I speak Czech. Years later, job interview at a school. The headmistress says I pronounce the English /s/ when speaking Czech, which is a problem, but that she's willing to overlook it and hire me. Made me self-conscious, so I refused and ended up with a better-paying job somewhere else.
@tantuce
@tantuce 13 днів тому
Try positioning your tongue behind the teeth in all sorts of different ways and maybe moving the lower jaw as well, just keeping your lips open. And you'll get there.
@TerezatheTeacher
@TerezatheTeacher 13 днів тому
​@@tantuceThanks for the encouragement but I won't bother. The only people (to my knowledge) who have ever noticed the difference are trained phoneticians/speech therapists, everybody else was as surprised as me. So I'll just keep doing my "good enough" English /s/ in my other languages.
@carcyaxon5532
@carcyaxon5532 11 днів тому
By the sound of it I've been using the Czech /s/ when speaking English all my life. I only found out a few years ago when learning Mandarin (same /s/ as Czech, apparently), but I learned that I can only really make a high pitched whistle when I try to do it the 'normal' English way. The words for this are 'apical' (tongue tip) and 'laminal' (tongue blade). Also, I don't know if it has to do with how I pronounce /s/, but the apical /s/ can really bug me when it makes that whistle sound too
@lanasinapayen3354
@lanasinapayen3354 11 днів тому
​@tantuce clearly you mean well but the fact that she literally saw professionals makes it clear she won't just 'get there' with one youtube comment
@MeowMeow-bi4lj
@MeowMeow-bi4lj 13 днів тому
I had some tooth complications and had some teeth removed almost two years ago, and I have braces now. At first I found it really hard to make sibilant sounds without enough teeth near the front of my mouth, but discovered that I could actually use the wire bridging the gap where the teeth used to be as the air blockage point to articulate the sound. My sibilants now honestly sound better than they ever used to before, even if how they're articulated is a little unorthodox.
@etorepugatti9196
@etorepugatti9196 12 днів тому
Hum, repeat after me, Surf shark is superb without expelling the braces..😊
@trevoro.9731
@trevoro.9731 13 днів тому
Also, I recommended you earlier African Grey parrots, they, unlike many other parrots, can make distinction between human sounds at the level of pronounced letters (some can make up new words out of sounds) and transform them to their understanding - and it is remarkable because they don't have the generic human speech adaptation for the specific range of frequency and sequences - resulting in clearly distinct and characteristic identification and reproduction of separate sounds - in particular, "s" is reproduced as loud vowel-type high frequency sound (it appears that most of African Grey parrots who learned to identify separate sounds reproduce it in that way). It is still perceived by humans and parrots as "s", loud and clear "s".
@1earflapping
@1earflapping 12 днів тому
Which raises the question: how do parrots create human speech sounds when they have neither lips nor teeth?
@trevoro.9731
@trevoro.9731 12 днів тому
@@1earflapping There are a lot of studies how parrots reproduce sounds.
@caffetiel
@caffetiel 12 днів тому
​@@1earflapping Syrinx. It's a neat organ
@DaveHuxtableLanguages
@DaveHuxtableLanguages 11 днів тому
Totally brilliant! Talk about learning things you didn’t even know you didn’t know.
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 11 днів тому
Thank you!
@Dunkle0steus
@Dunkle0steus 13 днів тому
Just finished a year in Japan as an English teacher. This video might've been helpful if I'd been able to watch it a year ago!
@wetteefun
@wetteefun 12 днів тому
Yes this is typical! I’m Dutch and lived in Thailand for many years. Most Thais when they want to learn English want a ‘native’ speaker as well, not realizing that being a native speaker doesn’t make you a good teacher. Native speakers often don’t have a clue what are the particular problems of their own language. They mostly don’t understand why their students make the mistakes they make.
@KyleWeiher
@KyleWeiher 11 днів тому
@@wetteefun Me learning German has, for the first time, made me think properly about how English works, and how ridiculous it is in the end compared to some other, more regular and structured languages.
@carylgibbs6094
@carylgibbs6094 8 днів тому
My linguistics professor in grad school picked up on /sh/ for the s in street when a student spoke in class and correctly guessed her family had come from Britain. I have never forgotten that difference and now I live in the UK and I hear it every single day.
@elizabethdixon5536
@elizabethdixon5536 2 дні тому
The Sh often comes when pronouncing st before r here in Australia too. You’ll hear “Aushtralia”.
@villeporttila5161
@villeporttila5161 13 днів тому
Great video. So many L2 speakers say English is 'easy'. That's only because learners of English are not expected to learn the language to as high a standard as learners of other languages - it's almost a given that you don't have to bother learning the difficult pronunciations. If you actually learn English to a truly high C2 standard rather than just swapping out the bits you can't be bothered to master, it's extremely difficult
@vaska1999
@vaska1999 12 днів тому
Extremely? Hmmm.
@villeporttila5161
@villeporttila5161 12 днів тому
@@vaska1999 I'm talking about learning English to C2 standard. That means no pronunciation features inherited from the L1, proper native-standard use of phrasal verbs, no excessive noun usage, no lazy misuse of tenses, and so on. It's extremely rare you see an L2 English speaker really get to that level, and I think that's because lower standards are accepted than they are for learners of other languages. I'd say that makes it extremely difficult
@vaska1999
@vaska1999 12 днів тому
@@villeporttila5161 The same is true for all other languages, most of which are far more complex and therefore much more difficult to master than English.
@mnm8818
@mnm8818 11 днів тому
well in English- change the tense of one word and you have to change the whole paragraph of words its in. crazy when i realised other languages don't need this... I'd like a modernisation of languages rant: also there's no need for plural when you already have 5 words before it starting its going to be a plural form... its redundant... eg ten cat, many cat- we all know theres ten or many of the cat species...
@HolgerJakobs
@HolgerJakobs 10 днів тому
English has a flat leaning curve at the beginning, but it gets steeper and steeper. It's the other way around in many languages. Once you get over the first difficulties, things become easier.
@trademarkshelton
@trademarkshelton 13 днів тому
I like that it seems like you found a good portion of your clips while watching videos about making UKposts videos. Always encouraging to see people you respect working to improve their craft
@stevecarter8810
@stevecarter8810 13 днів тому
More than one of my German colleagues ends up saying "thomesing" for "something". i love what this suggests about the cognitive processes happening for them
@meyague
@meyague 11 днів тому
it's more to do with muscle memory and the development of their mouth than a cognitive process.
@TP-om8of
@TP-om8of 10 днів тому
Don’t mention the war.
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 13 днів тому
2:50 and even "does" or "us" as in "what's he want" and "let's do it"
@Nikola_M
@Nikola_M 13 днів тому
S Battle Advanced
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 12 днів тому
@@Nikola_M aj sij ajslij pəzəlz fæn ɑr jʉw
@VisboerAnton
@VisboerAnton 13 днів тому
"What are you sinking about" wahaha
@jadziajagoda6187
@jadziajagoda6187 13 днів тому
I think he really asks, „What are you singing about?”
@soniasaldarriaga5166
@soniasaldarriaga5166 13 днів тому
😂😅👏🤣
@SurfTheSkyline
@SurfTheSkyline 13 днів тому
​@@jadziajagoda6187it is supposed to be mishearing "sinking" as "thinking", there is the distinct hardness of a K in there.
@skayt35
@skayt35 13 днів тому
In aeronautics, saying /s/ instead of /θ/ is considered best practice: 3,000 ft is pronounced "/s/ree thousand feet" instead of "/θ/ree tousand feet". This is because the /θ/ sound isn't recognisable with the traditionally bad radio quality in the noisy environment of most cockpits. The /s/ pronunciation is intended to better identify words and avoid misunderstandings.
@jangelbrich7056
@jangelbrich7056 13 днів тому
Typical for Germans, mixing up th with s. He asked "what are You thinking about", because he misunderstood the "we are sinking" for "we are thinking"
@jergarmar
@jergarmar 13 днів тому
My daughter has gotten over a lisp almost completely, but I was kind of confused why words like "complex" cause her lips to come together somewhat, hiding her bottom teeth, compared to how "dentally" I say it (with very open lips). Only from this video (and having her say some of these words) did I realize that she was using her bottom lip! And not only that, but Dr. Lindsey pointed out that it's even somewhat common. So in a very practical way, thanks for the video; I feel that I need to worry less about this particularity about her speech. Linguistics is way more complicated than it seems!
@topherthe11th23
@topherthe11th23 13 днів тому
9:50 - Today I learned that the 12 divisions of the year called "mumfs" are spelled "months".
@moladiver6817
@moladiver6817 13 днів тому
I heard mumfs for the first time a couple years ago and it took me a while to understand. English isn't my first language. I'm Dutch and had never heard that variety before.
@stevecarter8810
@stevecarter8810 13 днів тому
There are some awful messes of pronunciation in the south east of England. Twelve months becomes twewv mumfs . These are the bo'l o' wa'er people of internet meme fame. I now have extra fun because my heating falls away sharply at 8kHz meaning voiceless th can disappear totally for me.
@vaska1999
@vaska1999 12 днів тому
😂
@vez3834
@vez3834 12 днів тому
​@@stevecarter8810 wa'e* :D
@stevecarter8810
@stevecarter8810 12 днів тому
@@vez3834 o ye' you' qui'e righ' abou' tha'
@richardcochran260
@richardcochran260 13 днів тому
A fascinating video, as always! I'm a native speaker of American English, married to a native speaker of Venezuelan Spanish. Venezuelans seem to be particularly prone to de-emphasize or sometimes completely drop the final "S" from words in Spanish. And their Spanish is perfectly understandable the way they pronounce it. I've picked up that habit from her when I speak Spanish, while I've tried (with mixed success) to break her of the habit when she speaks English. You've clearly articulated what I knew intuitively but didn't know how to explain: Proper pronunciation of that sound is absolutely vital to carry the meanings of so many English terms. On a related note, my wife neither hears nor articulates the difference between "n" and "m" at the end of English words. I'm frequently trying to fix her pronunciation of "gum"/"gun", "William"/"Willian", "drone"/"drome" and similar pairs, some members of which are not actual words in English. I've heard her sisters and other Venezuelan friends make the same mistakes. I suspect the distinction between those two final consonants is rarely crucial in Spanish.
@Zzyzzyx
@Zzyzzyx 13 днів тому
I find the same with my Venezuelan students. They also seem to mix and match final /k/ and /t/.
@Paul71H
@Paul71H 13 днів тому
@@Zzyzzyx The n/m thing helps to explain why Albert Pujols (American baseball player from the Dominican Republic) talks about hitting "hone runs".
@languageservices8723
@languageservices8723 13 днів тому
Note that English words that end in M often end in N in Spanish. Jerusalem is Jerusalén in Spanish. Bethlehem is Belén. Harem is jarén.
@marcoscuervosantos8594
@marcoscuervosantos8594 13 днів тому
Spanish only has one native nasal coda spelled -n and realised [n̪] ,or [ŋ] in some varieties. Coda m only appears in unadapted loanwords, from Latin very often or English, and are only contrasted with the native coda by some speakers, in higher prestige situations mostly. Same goes for coda k and t, neither appear in native words so nativised pronunciations include: nor pronouncing them, changing k to [ɣ] or [χ], depending on how that variety treats native codas , and t to [θ],[ð], or changing both to s, with all the implications that has on "s-dropping" varieties.
@andrewdunbar828
@andrewdunbar828 13 днів тому
Final -s dropping in Spanish doesn't exist in Mexico or at least is rare enough I can't remember it, but as you go south it gets really common somewhere around Nicaragua or Honduras. Final -d and -g start to blur after that too.
@CarlosMagnussen
@CarlosMagnussen 13 днів тому
As a Dutch speaker, I usually replace th sounds with t or d, instead of a sibbilant. I believe that this is what has historically happened to the Dutch language as well, as can be seen in our definite article (English "the" vs. Dutch "de") and demonstratives (English "this" and "that" vs. Dutch "deze/dit" and "die/dat").
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 13 днів тому
I hope this makes you happy. When I speak very fast, apparently my coworkers only hear my TH's as T's in the beginnings of words, but at the ends of words often switches to purely an F. Also it doesn't help regionally. Vowels are much stickier so OF +THE often slam into each other. Eachother I think of as one word due to o became /ʌ̈:/ in that context and ea -> /ʏ/ or with a glottal stop. Doesn't help when I speak, I have a tendency to shove consonants in the back of my throat or front them for sharper contrast. TR, DR, SR ( only foreign words), but using a tapped R to avoid cluttering, but use the normal back R in-between words, but over-rhotic due to a more inwards mouth position. So vowel contrast becomes more important. Though at a huge consequence with harsh R sounds following rhotic vowels. There ( daar ) almost no longer becoming a homophone of their for me. :X
@fugithegreat
@fugithegreat 13 днів тому
Like in the song " 'S Wonderful", you can even cut the "it" out of "it's" and just leave the 's.
@iout
@iout 13 днів тому
I've noticed in a lot of online conversations I've been a part of that I and many others have started writing " 's alright" or " 's good" more often.
@cathjj840
@cathjj840 13 днів тому
'S ok. Rully, I mean it, 's ok, man.
@thatotherted3555
@thatotherted3555 13 днів тому
" 'Zat so?"
@catriona_drummond
@catriona_drummond 13 днів тому
S'pose it is.
@balaam_7087
@balaam_7087 13 днів тому
Some say the gopher from Winnie the Pooh haunts the nightmares of Dr Geoff Lindsey. And now you’re re-reading this post in the gopher’s voice, whistling each ‘s’…
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
I love comments I have to research to understand
@robinharwood5044
@robinharwood5044 12 днів тому
I don’t recall any gophers in the Hundred Acre Wood.
@q-tuber7034
@q-tuber7034 12 днів тому
@@robinharwood5044this character is not in Milne, but was added in Disney’s film adaptation
@artugert
@artugert 12 днів тому
I was going to comment that I was surprised he didn’t mention the “whistled” s.
@kkaree1234
@kkaree1234 7 днів тому
I would add the beaver from The Lady and the Tramp too
@laurencefraser
@laurencefraser 13 днів тому
"sixths" is a fun one. So many ways to (fail to) resolve that "-ksths" consonant cluster. So far as I can tell, I actually tend to lose the s sound from the x, but there are definitely people who lose the th (and then struggle with having two distinctly Seperate S sounds with... nothing in between, because it's obviously not just siks, but there's no vowel in there, but...)
@austingee238
@austingee238 13 днів тому
I cannot hardly pronounce anything similar: fifth, sixth, seventh, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth. I’m a native speaker of American English - but I’m also from where the hillbillies live. Those words come out as “fif, six, sevent, nont, tent, levent, twelf”.
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 13 днів тому
i say "fith" and "twelth", and i pronounce all the sounds in "sixth", but if i were to drop a sound it would be the "th". also fun one: "asthma" has a silent th in it
@Zzyzzyx
@Zzyzzyx 13 днів тому
Yeah, I say "sikths" for sixths.
@thatotherted3555
@thatotherted3555 13 днів тому
I hear more British people say "sicth" and more Americans say "sixt" and in all honesty I (an American) find both versions kind of annoying, but my "six'ss" is probably the least clear option 🤔
@angeldude101
@angeldude101 13 днів тому
I'm pretty sure I front the th in "sixths", giving something like "siksts".
@tannerh7774
@tannerh7774 13 днів тому
Dr. Lindsey, after watching your video, once again I am left questioning things I took for granted. I consider you a true scientist; you base your thoughts on your own tangible research instead of just echoing what is said by those who are esteemed. You inspire me to trust my own thoughts and dive deep into my own suspicions. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the world.
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
Thank you! One of the best comments I've ever had.
@philiptaylor7902
@philiptaylor7902 13 днів тому
I remember an ancient Benny Hill (radio!) sketch where he was playing a supposedly French character who spoke in perfect English. When challenged if he was really French he replied "It's hard enough to pronounce all the s's in English, let alone with a French accent"
@KarlDeux
@KarlDeux 12 днів тому
I am not sure Benny was able to speak French, but when his accent when he was speaking French in his sketches was very good.
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
Benny Hill on the radio?? Must check that out!
@philiptaylor7902
@philiptaylor7902 12 днів тому
@@DrGeoffLindsey Actually, it was an LP, which why thought it was the radio as a child. Issued as “Benny at the BBC” / “The World of Benny Hill” according to the interweb, not sure if it’s possible to get hold of a copy these days. The sketches may have been originally televised.
@philiptaylor7902
@philiptaylor7902 12 днів тому
@@DrGeoffLindsey I stand corrected, it was Hugh Paddick on "Beyond our Ken" ukposts.info/have/v-deo/aKR9k357pW2QmXk.html at 16:50. Is there nothing that's not on the web these days!
@deliusmyth5063
@deliusmyth5063 11 днів тому
@@KarlDeux Benny could actually speak French. There's a video on YT of him interviewing the actor who dubs him for French TV.
@rasmusn.e.m1064
@rasmusn.e.m1064 13 днів тому
I often come to these videos with a strong sense of accomplishment in my L2 skills and leave with a profound insecurity that I may insufficiently pronounce something I had never questioned before. Today's video did not disappoint. Especially considering I heard the 's' that supposedly wasn't there in the clip starting at 10:46. I just thought it was retracted like the 'n' before it.
@christopherrseay3148
@christopherrseay3148 13 днів тому
this is the first video i've ever seen from you. i'm hooked
@jessehammer123
@jessehammer123 13 днів тому
Lucky! I recommend Hard Attack, Theme Tunes, Pink Panther, and Sbeech as my favorite videos (those aren’t their names, but they are the operative words).
@Mullkaw
@Mullkaw 13 днів тому
there's a smorgasbord of great videos on this channel! I recommend CAN and CANT, foreign words like PASTA, and Why these English phonetic symbols are all WRONG
@TechieSewing
@TechieSewing 9 днів тому
Was Weak Forms for me. Highly recommend that one :)
@leslieschott754
@leslieschott754 6 днів тому
Me too! Fascinating, and I thought I’d like to teach English!
@TheForeignersNetwork
@TheForeignersNetwork 13 днів тому
Beyond being important for grammatical purposes, the /s/ phoneme also has sociolinguistic connotations, at least in American English. Hypersibilant /s/ phonemes are associated with femininity, to the point where males who use this phoneme can be perceived as effeminate. This phoneme is made with the tip of the tongue pointing upwards. In contrast, hyposibilant /s/ phonemes are often associated with masculinity, and are pronounced with the tip of the tongue pointing downwards. AAVE is a dialect where this pronunciation is particularly common among both males and females, while other dialects have a prominent gender divide in terms of the pronunciations of that letter. This is very interesting because it also affects mouth posture and the way that some vowels are pronounced.
@missellyssa
@missellyssa 13 днів тому
Thank you for including that clip at the beginning! That has been my favorite ad for 15 years!!
@caraiya
@caraiya 10 днів тому
@DrGeoffLindsey You know, we do have a dialect where the s is frequently dropped: AAVE (African-American Vernacular English.) For instance, a person can tell someone about a student continually attending a school: "He go to Duke Ellington." Or, where he lives: "He live 'round Chesapeake St." Or...this little magical sentence about food preferences: "Yeah, he like crabs." The above is an extraordinary example of both dropping an s on a routine action AND adding an s to a word that technically would not use an s to denote plurality. The same applies to ownership: That's Keshia's book: "That (usually pronounced as "dat") Keshia book." It is the coolest thing, and it's so awesome to hear how it flows...or, flow.
@elisaastorino2881
@elisaastorino2881 9 днів тому
Not cool, just lazy speech.
@caraiya
@caraiya 6 днів тому
@@elisaastorino2881 NO, AAVE is not lazy, and I'm not sure how you can come to such a conclusion. AAVE is a vibrant and a living language dialect, with complex rules and structures, just as you can find in any other dialect. There is nothing "lazy" about AAVE. What is lazy, however, is making a lackluster assessment based on nothing aside from general disdain. You can dislike the dialect (why though?), but to claim that it is "lazy" despite having similar structures to other dialects and languages that are not considered "lazy," is asinine at best, and ignorance at its worst. Even more, your sentence lacked an antecedent. Why did you leave the antecedent out? Laziness?
@BFDT-4
@BFDT-4 13 днів тому
Another issue is the voiced/voiceless versions of these sounds. The placement can almost be the same, but the sound differs greatly when the voice is employed versus when the sound is just the sibilant noise of the air rushing through. Spanish speakers in South America do not use the /ð/, /z/, or /ʒ/ and instead use /θ/, /s/ and /ʃ/ for both, and have great difficulty switching on the voice in these cases, since in Spanish they are always voiceless, and sometimes even muted. So, while this was a great video, we need to show those voice/voiceless distinctions, too! :D
@artugert
@artugert 12 днів тому
I was thinking the same thing. Needs more voiced examples.
@fburton8
@fburton8 13 днів тому
0:05 Reminds me of an old Victor Lewis sketch where he calls an electrical goods shop pretending to be a German customer wanting help with a TV that he accidentally poured Blue Nun ("very good, expensive wine") into and is now "very smoking". "and so I put my hand into ze back." "I would switch off the mains first before you put it out." "I do not come from Mainz, I am from Frankfurt." "Switch the electricity mains off!" "Please sir, please.. if I touch the one on the side like this..." *bang!* "Hello? Hello?" "Hello... I was thrown across the room. The television has blown, there is glass everywhere. What is the number of the ambulance, please?" "999" "Why are you saying no to me?"
@David_Robert
@David_Robert 9 днів тому
Hello 👋how are you doing today??
@leslieschott754
@leslieschott754 6 днів тому
Laughing my head off! Of course you’d have to know that “nein” in German means “no” and is pronounced “ nine”! 😂
@jitsukerr
@jitsukerr 13 днів тому
Fascinating. I have a gap between my upper two front teeth, and when I'm tired I can find my s's starting to slip into th's -- a particular problem when singing. While I've never had a lisp, this video has helped me work out some issues with my s mouth shape and develop some potential strategies for more effective sibilant formation. My singing teacher will be very happY!
@CorvusNumber6
@CorvusNumber6 12 днів тому
I could never understand why so many so many English speakers pronounce 'th' as though it were an 'f'. Eg; wiff, free-two-one, I fink... etc. We regarded it as a speech impediment and always corrected our children when we heard them repeating it from TV or something. Great video with superb content! 👍🏻😎
@oatsmcgoats8493
@oatsmcgoats8493 12 днів тому
One of the recent tics I developed is a hiss, which seems to have taken over a clicking sound I used to make. And I tell you no one ever noticed the 'click' but one hiss and I have people looking at me - it's not surprising now that I've learned the 's' is such a loud and distinct sound. A very interesting video, thank you.
@coolandhip_7596
@coolandhip_7596 13 днів тому
I spent years dealing with a mild lisp unable to figure out what to do with my tongue to pronounce s properly. After several years of trying and many searches on youtube i came across a video that explained it as a breathy t which did wonders. I am glad to see the wide diversity in means of making what we perceive as an s.
@pansepot1490
@pansepot1490 13 днів тому
That’s cool! Nowadays one can learn almost everything on UKposts.
@TioDeive
@TioDeive 13 днів тому
Dr Lindsey is just brilliant. Thank you.
@Hermanubis1
@Hermanubis1 12 днів тому
He is not. He presents English as if it is just a choice and the language can be whatever it wants to be. He is a complete descriptivist extremist.
@n0tthemessiah
@n0tthemessiah 12 днів тому
Related to the 'Articulation' section: a decade or so ago I got a prosthetic device to replace a front tooth that had to be removed (lateral incisor). It's a clever little thing that goes across my palate and fits in a gap on the other side of my mouth. Anyway, my point is that I basically have a false palate from this prosthetic that sits a bit lower in my mouth than my real one and it made pronouncing S really hard for a good few weeks until my tongue got used to it. Now, whenever I take it out, it's equally difficult to pronounce S sounds without it!
@elisaastorino2881
@elisaastorino2881 9 днів тому
I had the same problem when a dentist decided that aesthetics were more important than speech.
@KGTiberius
@KGTiberius 10 днів тому
I would enjoy Dr. Lindsey crafting several creative sentences for us to submit/tag for review, while including the subject’s home town, teenage town, college town, and parent’s information as well. Map/diagram where changes are happening and the potential influences. Also, include a few tongue-twisters for fun.
@1oolabob
@1oolabob 13 днів тому
I'm a native of California living in Chicago for the past 35 years. The first difference I noticed in the common Chicago accent is the "th" sound being completely left out of all speech, often replaced by a "d" sound, or when that's impractical, with a plain "t" sound, and in "going to da te-ater". The second remarkable feature of a Chicago accent is the final-s sound being lengthened, sometimes to a ridiculous degree--"dat's jusst how it issss"--and sometimes without an "s" being at the end of a word at all. For instance, there's a well-known chain of grocery stores here called Jewel. Chicago speakers often call it Jewelss or even Jewelsess.
@innertuber4049
@innertuber4049 13 днів тому
I am one of those people who doesn't close their teeth. I always just thought my problem was that my tongue was a little too far forward, but putting it back only ever served to make my s's sound more like sh. Thank you for going so in detail about what's going on in my mouth! I was finally able to make a normal s sound!
@w.reidripley1968
@w.reidripley1968 3 дні тому
Exactly. S > tongue farthest forward behind teeth, has a whistling sub-note. SH > tongue tip back a little, still having that little whistle. Russian Sh -- one letter in Cyrillic, looks like a Roman numeral III -- carries it even farther, the tongue tip drawn to practically the middle of the mouth, producing not a whistling but a mushing sort of sound by this difference.
@advocatingAvian
@advocatingAvian 13 днів тому
I had speech therapy classes as a young child to improve a lisp I have, and I remember being incredibly frustrated at the ways the sounds were being described to me versus what I could and couldn’t pronounce. I remember being advised to move my tongue tip back so far there was nothing in my own mouth to obstruct the air, and being absolutely bewildered that my teacher could hiss just fine “like that”. I eventually improved just by practice, playing a card game where you had to hiss like a snake to score points. Regardless, I feel a lot more vindicated for how I felt during that class after this video - it certainly had a Lot to do with my front teeth, which were nowhere to be found at the time. Ha!
@joelwebster8227
@joelwebster8227 13 днів тому
The amount of thought and work that goes into Dr Lindsey’s videos is mind-blowing, and this is no exception. The transition into the sponsor read is, as has been pointed out, nothing short of brilliant. Thank you, Surf Shark and thank you, Geoff!
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
I really appreciate it
@default3252
@default3252 13 днів тому
4:03 "I can't call to mind a single process of English which deletes a final /s/ or /z/ - they're just too important." Unless I'm misunderstanding, isn't AAVE an example? Possessive 's can be deleted, so you get phrases like "my momma house."
@KirkWaiblinger
@KirkWaiblinger 13 днів тому
Yeah, also, AAVE adapts the th sounds differently (d/dth instead of f/v). Maybe he just spends more time focused on British English 🤷‍♂️
@AllUpOns
@AllUpOns 13 днів тому
Good call. I knew there had to be something. I think AAVE can also drop plurals, ie Fitty Cent instead of fifty cents.
@MrAntonla
@MrAntonla 13 днів тому
Also, I think that I have heard that whenever General American can make contractions, AAVE can omit.
@keith6706
@keith6706 13 днів тому
AAVE has a general trend of deleting final consonant, but by far "s" and "z" are more likely to be retained. Possessive 's is dropped as a grammatical change, not a phonological one.
@revolution1237
@revolution1237 13 днів тому
​@@AllUpOnsHere's another example: "It's wild how all animals be openin' they mouth when they hype!" As you can see, there are two contradictions (I don't know what's the better term for this) here. "Animal" has the plural -s whereas "mouth" doesn't. Fascinating.
@vyt2622
@vyt2622 13 днів тому
I am now trying to figure out how I naturally/automatically make an s sound. It might explain why I was identified as having a slight lisp in Lithuania after growing up (and not being labeled as lisping) in the US.
@petrhomolac3740
@petrhomolac3740 11 днів тому
I have been learning English more than 50 years but nobody ever told me the essential difference in decibels between th and s! Extremely useful information, it solves my problems with that and for many Czech speakers too I think, thanks very much.
@trishgreydanus7004
@trishgreydanus7004 8 днів тому
I remember asking a Spanish speaking person what English sounded like as a "tune" and they made a droning sound. This made sense in comparison to their own roller coaster language sound. But now i am hearing the impact of the consonants at the end of so many words creating little halts all through the sentences. Especially listening to your British delivery.
@seileach67
@seileach67 8 днів тому
You may be interested in Dr. Lindsay's video on the rhythm of English speech relating to the Pink Panther theme song. I love that video and re-watch it occasionally.
@yuvalne
@yuvalne 13 днів тому
the smoothest sponsor segue I've ever seen
@Ms.Pronounced_Name
@Ms.Pronounced_Name 13 днів тому
8:20 i didn't hear "thin" here, i heard "bin" for some reason. I'll try it again later with a different pair of headphones, and some speakers I've got at home
@ozenugurlu3319
@ozenugurlu3319 12 днів тому
I heard bin too!
@DonTornado
@DonTornado 9 днів тому
14:05 Ok this makes sense now. I was listening to a cover of a song called Cinnamon and Clove by a Japanese singer named Ichiko Hashimoto, and it kind of sounded like she was lisping. I’m not really familiar with her music, but this would explain why she pronounced certain words the way that she did. Thanks.
@ThiagoFSR83
@ThiagoFSR83 День тому
I'd like to thank (fank🤭) Dr. Lindsay. I'm a Brazilian linguage teacher (Portuguese and English). Some of these videos help me a lot to produce more and better English classes to my studants. Cheers from Brasil!
@comradewindowsill4253
@comradewindowsill4253 13 днів тому
eeh??? 1 minute ago??? my phonetics professor would be amazed to see me get somewhere on time
@bcp-7
@bcp-7 13 днів тому
until you realise you forgot to do your homework
@sirati9770
@sirati9770 13 днів тому
oh yeah 3 mins ago. yours is the only comment
@comradewindowsill4253
@comradewindowsill4253 13 днів тому
@@bcp-7 no, no, I finished all this week's homework on Saturday--
@nimzodragonlord
@nimzodragonlord 13 днів тому
Woah I've always wondered why my S's whistle. When you showed the diagram at 16:45, I realized that I've always pronounced my S's with my lower jaw relaxed and my tongue resting right beneath my top row of teeth. Lo and behold, when I closed my teeth and made an S sound, the whistle disappeared.
@fugithegreat
@fugithegreat 13 днів тому
My S's have become more whistled lately because my two front teeth have developed a small gap in recent years. My tongue is shooting that jet of air right through the gap.
@BBP_BKK
@BBP_BKK 13 днів тому
@@fugithegreat You have Willem Dafoe's S sound. I like his S so much. 😆
@Pixietoria
@Pixietoria 11 днів тому
@@fugithegreatSame. Occasionally it comes out as such a clean whistle it takes me by surprise. Happens more and more the older and gappier my teeth get. I also find it easier to intentionally whistle with my tongue as opposed to my lips. Do you find that? I can whistle both ways but find it way less effort with my tongue. Sharper and louder though… which might not sound as pleasant I guess. 😂
@BennyPowers
@BennyPowers 10 днів тому
The amount of enjoyment I get from your videos is truly abnormal. Keep going! I find this particular topic fascinating in relation to the pronunciation of Hebrew: comparing modern (always T and D), litvish (T or S, always D), galitzianer, and Yemenite (T,S,D, Th, and Dh) pronunciations, as well as the old Ashkenazi pronunciation which preserved the "th" for the unpointed thuff consonant
@oliviamayumi
@oliviamayumi 13 днів тому
fascinating as always! i'm a native speaker of brazilian portuguese and for the first seconds of this video i thought for sure it would be a th! we also use -s for plurals and though brazilian speakers often struggle with words ending in consonants (often pronouncing "it" as "itty" or "lab" as "labby" for instance), s is not one of them. but the th seems to be a bigger struggle - so much so that i find myself willfully mispronouncing it in certain instances to avoid seeming pretentious 😅
@robertfitzjohn4755
@robertfitzjohn4755 13 днів тому
Ah, that explains why the manga/anime/film "Death Note" is written in Japanese as "Desu Nōto" (デスノート).
@2Cerealbox
@2Cerealbox 13 днів тому
What were they gonna write it as, Dethu Noto?
@andyv2209
@andyv2209 13 днів тому
​​@@2Cerealboxi could see a t being used rather than s if i didn't know anything about Japanese pronunciation already.
@2Cerealbox
@2Cerealbox 13 днів тому
@@andyv2209 Japanese doesn't have the "tu" syllable/character.
@notwithouttext
@notwithouttext 13 днів тому
@@2Cerealbox but it does have "to", like in "nōto", so why not also for death? "deto nōto"
@2Cerealbox
@2Cerealbox 13 днів тому
@@notwithouttext "o" isn't really a neutral sound that gets dropped like "u" does. "Desu Noto" would be pronounced as "des noto" (at least by many people).
@funnysilly5020
@funnysilly5020 12 днів тому
What’s really interesting is that Old Spanish developed both forms of “s” Classical Latin didn’t distinguish s [s] from sh [ʃ] so it only had an intermediate s [s̠]. But by 200AD, people begin palatalizing ce and ci, making a soft C sound. West of Italy, this happens [kʲ] > [c] > [ts] > [s]. In this same region, clusters like [ks̠], [kt] get a palatal squeezed out [js̠], [jt] > [ʃ], [tʃ] So you suddenly have [s] vs [s̠] vs [ʃ] out of thin air. *captiat (“he hunts”), casa (“house”), capsa (“box”) becoming caça [kasa], casa [kas̠a], caxa [kaʃa]. This system collapsed because the sounds are too close in the mouth. Most of Spanish history has been spent trying to move them as far away from each other as possible. This sent [ʃ] even further back, all the way into the throat [x]- ahora escrito como jota. Then in the North of Spain [s] was pushed forward even further until it was [θ] but in the South [s̠] is pushed forward until it’s just [s]
@thatotherted3555
@thatotherted3555 9 днів тому
I think I've read that it may be thanks to the influence of Basque, and possibly the other pre-Romance languages of the Iberian peninsula. The late Larry Trask, still the foremost specialist on the history of Basque as far as I know, reconstructed the prehistoric stage of that language as already having the distinction, and it could be an areal feature that tends to persist in that region. Also interesting is that when the 16th-century Spanish started writing Classical Nahuatl in the Latin alphabet, they almost always used or for its sibilant phoneme, not .
@owlfrog
@owlfrog 12 днів тому
Seriously, this is an absolutely smashing and thoughtful discourse on such a crucial sound.
@carolinejames7257
@carolinejames7257 13 днів тому
Fascinating topic. The varied uses of the 's' in English to convey so much additional information means that for those who find it difficult to produce, it can do much more than give them a 'lisp' or make certain words difficult to pronounce. (I was fascinated to discover as a child that my mother wasn't able to pronounce the word anaesthetist. She can produce both sounds separately, but not together. ) If producing the sound (or certain combinations like sth) is so difficult that you mispronounce some words, they're often still recognisable, especially when it's a frequent or common usage. However, I'd never previously stopped to consider that *dropping* them because they're tricky and you think they're not important, can cause you to omit a lot of information, and even alter a communication enough to cause frustration and misunderstanding.
@remycallie
@remycallie 13 днів тому
If you've ever since the movie "My Cousin Vinny" (which if you haven't, you should, because it's one of the funniest movies every made) the Brooklyn-born Vincent "Vinny" Gambini (who took 6 tries to pass the bar) is defending his young cousin in a murder case in Alabama. The cousin and a friend are driving out to California to start college and are accused of shooting a clerk in a convenience store where they stopped. (Actually two other kids in an identical car did it right after the cousin and his friend left.) On cross, Vinny asks a witness if he saw "these two youths leaving the store" only Vinny pronounces the word "yoots." The judge stops him to ask "what's a "yoot"?" Eventually Vinny figures out that the judge can't understand his pronunciation and says sarcastically "Oh excuse me your honor!" and then hyper-over-pronounces each sound "these two you-th-ss."
@pierreabbat6157
@pierreabbat6157 13 днів тому
If the case were in the western USA, they could be two Utes leaving the store. Especially, of course, in Utah.
@remycallie
@remycallie 13 днів тому
@@pierreabbat6157 True -- but probably not in Alabama. :) Also the two kids are Italian (the cousin) and Jewish (the friend).
@postscript67
@postscript67 13 днів тому
Churchill certainly didn't try to avoid "s" in his speeches, did he? - "From Shtettin in the Baltic to Trieshte in the Adriatic", "Shome chicken, shome neck", "THISH wash their finesht hour!"
@PaulVinonaama
@PaulVinonaama 13 днів тому
Stettin is pronounced Shtetin in German!
@postscript67
@postscript67 13 днів тому
@@PaulVinonaama Indeed! However I'm quite sure Churchill wasn't attempting to pronounce it like a native. Witness his reference in his VE day broadcast to General Jodl, which he didn't pronounce "yodel", or indeed Trieste in which the final e was silent.
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 13 днів тому
To me, he sounds German as it gets with doing ST's as realized SHT's
@moritamikamikara3879
@moritamikamikara3879 10 днів тому
That's just as a result of his weird jaw. I'm a voice actor and the way that Winston Churchill speaks is referred to as "Protruding jaw" and it often results in accidentally making sh sounds instead of s sounds.
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 9 днів тому
@@moritamikamikara3879 I didn't know then again this accidental mistake
@janetmackinnon3411
@janetmackinnon3411 13 днів тому
THank you for your clarity!
@draig2614
@draig2614 13 днів тому
I come to pronunciation via singing, and s is a fascinating sound. It is such a piercing sound that in choir, we sometimes joke that if there is a final s (especially after a prolonged vowel), only one singer needs to pronounce the s and it will sound like we all are. (This also avoids the complication of all of our loud “s”s coming in at a slightly different time 😂)
@patrickf.4440
@patrickf.4440 13 днів тому
I remember, twenty-five years ago, reading the Hobbit to my children (before the movies came out) and reading aloud the words spoken by Gollum [oops, I originally said "Golem"] ("my preciousss") and how they got into "Gollum" speak for a while. Did enough 'S' sounds for a lifetime. Yes, the 'S' is preciousss!
@thatotherted3555
@thatotherted3555 13 днів тому
This is totally a tangent but I've never understood why some people mix up "Gollum" and "golem". I say the first one like "solemn" and the second with the vowels of "totem", and I'm pretty sure etymology is on my side in both cases.
@alanscottevil
@alanscottevil 13 днів тому
You're correct ​@@thatotherted3555 . The Lord of the Rings character is Gollum, GAH-Lumm. The creature from Jewish folklore is Golem, Go-Lemm.
@patrickf.4440
@patrickf.4440 13 днів тому
Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. I got lazy and tired and should have checked.. sorry.
@carolinejames7257
@carolinejames7257 13 днів тому
​@@alanscottevilExcept for Brits, and Aussies like myself, and other non-Americans it's GOLL-um, but otherwise I agree. The two are distinctly different. 😉
@japanpanda2179
@japanpanda2179 13 днів тому
@@thatotherted3555 Huh, well today I learned! I'd always pronounced them both as rhyming with "solemn".
@zelandakhniteblade5436
@zelandakhniteblade5436 13 днів тому
Germans often struggle massively with this soft th to s transition. I sometimes recommend them to practice saying the word myths, with the suggestion of starting with the tongue tip between the teeth and pulling it back to form the s. The other major confusion in this area comes between sh and j. I once went to a meeting in Germany about shop jobs and literally could not tell the difference between the words, having to rely exclusively on the context for understanding. No doubt Dr Lindsey can easily explain that one too. Finally, on the s formation, I also had issues with this sound and even speech therapy as a child. In watching this video I realised that I form the s using the teeth and tongue as the constriction with no idea that this might be unusual. I can pull both lips away with no change in sound for the th, s and sh and simply move the tongue in and out to transition between them. I wonder how many others do the same thing.
@AllUpOns
@AllUpOns 13 днів тому
I believe that is the "standard" English way of producing a loud S sound. I'm pretty sure Dr Lindsey was just exploring alternative methods that might not be as capable of producing the same volume.
@a_kris
@a_kris 13 днів тому
Now I, a German speaker, am sitting here at six in the morning trying to figure out why shop and job sound so similar when we pronounce these words. I guess I'm doing it wrong as well 😂 My guess: We tend to shorten the o sound and skip the /d/ in the /dʒ/ sound almost entirely or replace it with a short /t/ which makes it sound more like sh. Some dialect speakers might have less trouble. Did you speak with southern Germans back then?
@zelandakhniteblade5436
@zelandakhniteblade5436 13 днів тому
@@a_kris It's possible I should have said Franconian rather than German, since Ps and Bs here are a little special but I suspect the difficulty in pronouncing the English j (closest equivalent being a German dsch- as in Dschungel) is fairly universal. Combined with the hardening of German sh at the start of a word to sch, the result, in this meeting at least, is a nebulous sound somewhere in-between (dsch- vs sch-). From a German perspective I can easily imagine the sounds are completely different, as per u and ü or final -e and -a, which in some (not all) contexts, sound to me completely identical but Germans assure me are quite distinct.
@donwebster9292
@donwebster9292 13 днів тому
Love teaching us with your ad reads.
@caraiya
@caraiya 6 днів тому
This was an awesome coverage of how essential the consonant is within the language, and how it differs from many other languages. Thanks so much!! 🤩
@Auriflamme
@Auriflamme 13 днів тому
If I might make a correction, in the examples you chose for Japanese です (desu) and ます(masu), the speakers had strong lisps and wouldn't be considered exactly standard pronunciation. Although the sound is indeed somewhere in between the American English 'mass' and 'math' as you have indicated.
@niwa_s
@niwa_s 12 днів тому
It was a bit misleading to use that sample as a seeming "representative" of the Japanese "s", but I wouldn't say the speakers "all had strong lisps". They mostly fall perfectly within the norm of what is considered "s" -- as do the many other speakers whose "s" sounds are much sharper. Which I think is really the point he's trying to make: since there's no distinction, that "unambiguously s" range is quite wide. Same phenomenon as with "r".
@zxkver8943
@zxkver8943 13 днів тому
what are you þinking about
@lpschaf8943
@lpschaf8943 13 днів тому
good old thorne
@catmacopter8545
@catmacopter8545 13 днів тому
me when i have two mouths and one is binking but the other is pinking
@farmerchuck7294
@farmerchuck7294 13 днів тому
what are _you_ ðinking about?
@AIainMConnachie
@AIainMConnachie 13 днів тому
😂
@kamo7293
@kamo7293 12 днів тому
I said we are SSSSSinking
@marcuscarter
@marcuscarter 13 днів тому
So insightful, I love the way you find all these examples across YT as examples. Thank you as always 🙏
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 8 днів тому
Thank you Marcus, much appreciated
@barbararowley6077
@barbararowley6077 13 днів тому
I went through speech therapy as a child, because of my s’s. Because I have gaps between my teeth, I would get quite a prominent lisp. Quite honestly, this video has a clearer explanation of what’s going on, and better strategies to get around the physical issue than the therapist ever did, so a big thank you!
@MaoRatto
@MaoRatto 13 днів тому
To me, it should be required to show and describe the sounds themselves and know exactly what's going on rather than " FIX IT! "
@ericfielding668
@ericfielding668 13 днів тому
twelfths is a fun one to pronounce
@Allan_son
@Allan_son 13 днів тому
Next time someone tells me English is easy to learn I am going to write that word on a piece of paper and show it to them. :-)
@topherthe11th23
@topherthe11th23 13 днів тому
I would have guessed "r" is the most important consonant in English, because it's the one that has the most variation from accent to accent. In the past-tense word "cawed" no American sees that "w" as being anything like the "w" that begins "wet". We don't see a consonant. We see "aw" as a way of writing a vowel. But in words like "car" and "marred" Americans always see the "r" as being something like the beginning for the word "red". It wasn't until I started watching this channel that I realize that in some parts of the word the "ar" in "part" is in no way shape or form deemed to contain the initial consonant of "red" as "part" does in my U.S. diction. Many people see "ar" as a way of writing a vowel without a consonant, just as Americans see "aw" in "draw" as a vowel with no following consonant. "R" is the letter that's all over the place in the Anglophone world.
@topherthe11th23
@topherthe11th23 13 днів тому
Later on in the video I caught what he was saying. The "s" carries a heavier workload than other letters, to convey a wide range of things.
@pansepot1490
@pansepot1490 13 днів тому
It’s UKposts. I wouldn’t call it clickbait in this case but even creators with academic credentials and educational content know that titles must draw attention.
@Paul71H
@Paul71H 13 днів тому
Dr. Lindsey has some great videos about that British "r", which it sounds like you are familiar with already. The question of what role the "w" plays at the end of words is interesting. I'm American, and I would say that if I over-enunciate a word like "draw", then I can hear that "w" at least a bit -- though that's more true for words ending in "ow", like "low" or "slow". And I think the "w" sound is there (lightly) when I say the word "drawing." Edit: It just occurred to me that the "w" thing is probably affected by whether the speaker has the cot/caught vowel merger or not. I think that if the speaker has the cot/caught merger, then they would be less likely to perceive even a hint of a "w" sound at the end of words like draw, saw, claw, etc. For example, I was once listening to a podcast where the host asked a photographer about taking digital photos in "rah" format (as I perceived it). I know a little bit about cameras and image file types, and I was trying to figure out what "rah" format could be, when finally it dawned on me that he meant "raw" format. 🙂
@sarahpowell671
@sarahpowell671 13 днів тому
Best ad intro I've ever seen. Bravo.
@David_Robert
@David_Robert 9 днів тому
Hello 👋How are you doing today??
@elsalaiho1699
@elsalaiho1699 13 днів тому
This was interesting, thank you for the video! I'm Finnish, and I find that here, the English th sounds tend to get simplified into a t (sometimes aspirated, sometimes not) instead of an s. But pretty much all the English sibilants can turn into an s, depending on the speaker, because the unvoiced s is really the only one of them that Finnish has or uses a lot (some loanwords can have the sh sound, but loanwords can be a little weird sometimes anyway, we also get loanwords that break the finnish vowel harmony and stuff like that)
@fuckdefed
@fuckdefed 13 днів тому
Dutch is another good example of an accent where ‘s’ sounds remarkably like an ‘sh’. Spanish speakers often seem to accidentally say the ‘th’ sound of ‘this’, sometimes spelt as ‘dh’ to distinguish it from the ‘th’ of ‘think’, for a ‘d’ sound despite it not officially existing in their language - they seem to say ‘Madhreed’ or ‘Feliz Navidhad’ for example. I’ve noticed French people who theoretically can’t say ‘h’ say it in an elongated breathy form at the end of the word ‘oui’ (so basically as ‘weehhh’).
@Cortov
@Cortov 13 днів тому
In the case of French, it seems to be closer to [ç], which is articulated in the same place as [i]. The [iç] sound sequence sometimes occurs in Portuguese, or at least Brazilian Portuguese (which I speak natively), as a pronunciation of the word "ir", meaning "to go", as it requires less tongue movement than articulating the final "r" at the back of the mouth, although final r's may also be articulated as a plain [h] or not at all. As for Spanish, I believe that's due to a weakening of the consonant in between vowels, which also occurs in European Portuguese, so the voiced "th" sound of English functions as an allophone of "d" in some places.
@maxthomas6686
@maxthomas6686 13 днів тому
@@Cortov For Spanish, pretty much, yes. The voiced stops (/b/, /d/, /g/) are realized as voiced approximants ([β̞], [ð̞], and [ɣ̞] respectively) when preceded by a vowel or any consonant that isn't a nasal or, for /d/, a lateral, including across word boundaries.
@patrickscannell6370
@patrickscannell6370 13 днів тому
After "oui" is more of a palatal fricative, same as in German "Ich"
@emiliog.4432
@emiliog.4432 13 днів тому
Is spelt a word? I thought it was spelled.
@jan_Masewin
@jan_Masewin 13 днів тому
Oh it's not a mistake for Spanish speakers
@Consumerismania
@Consumerismania 13 днів тому
7 minutes in and I'm glad to see even university research guys are just using Audacity, same as me 😂
@sahidcm
@sahidcm 11 днів тому
My mind is blown. Thank you for the great lesson, Dr. Lindsay!!
@ChelseaaaL
@ChelseaaaL 9 днів тому
I have never finished a youtube video longer than 20 minutes. Thank you doctor.
@marcelosantos5683
@marcelosantos5683 13 днів тому
There's one thing I think you didn't mention when talking about the encounter of s and th, which is that sometimes people swap the th for a d, like "is dat it" or whenever speaking quickly like "the good, the bad and de ugly". Apart from that, I really liked the video, as a brazilian non-native but with decent English, I enjoy a lot learning more about it. If there were Portuguese captions I could share this with friends that aren't as good on English...
@barneylaurance1865
@barneylaurance1865 13 днів тому
swapping th for a d is a form of th-stopping
@bdwon
@bdwon 13 днів тому
I struggled for several months to learn how to pronounce "physician." Doing so "correctly" was not an issue until I went to college and found myself surrounded by people with PhDs, rather than MDs
@dothedo3667
@dothedo3667 13 днів тому
Huh?
@meobeutter2695
@meobeutter2695 9 днів тому
Thank you for making these videos. You are my hero
@WildStar2002
@WildStar2002 12 днів тому
I was on a red-eye flight some years ago and I heard a couple speaking softly to each other a few aisles in front of me. I didn't understand the language, but I got the impression that it was quite sibilant - hissy, like two snakes speaking together. I was *very* surprised when I listened more closely, trying to identify the language, when I suddenly realized it was my own native English - and that I was hearing it the way non-native speakers probably hear the language! 😮🤣 And now I have a better understanding of *why!* Thanks, Dr. Lindsey! 😄
@MikeOfKorea
@MikeOfKorea 13 днів тому
My Korean learners said 'months' as /mun thiz/ inserting a vowel sound.
@HagenvonEitzen
@HagenvonEitzen 13 днів тому
4:50 How ironic that "sh!" is loud. I wish there were a language were the command to be quiet is something less loud, perhaps even just a glottal stop ;). However, such a command would scertainly be overheard by the adressee ...
@DrGeoffLindsey
@DrGeoffLindsey 12 днів тому
The whole point is that 'sh' can be heard over background hubbub.
@maciejrataj4255
@maciejrataj4255 12 днів тому
Thank you for yet another great video. And yes, guilty as charged, I spend 2.5 to 3 full 90-minute classes teaching the two dental fricatives to my Polish students but rarely the /s/ and /z/ sounds even though I realise they are somewhere between dental and alveolar in Polish, so that using them in English may lead to misunderstandings. By the way, contrary to the stereotype, Polish speakers of English usually do "th"-stopping /t/ and /d/, not /s/ or /z/.
@UltimateHammerBro
@UltimateHammerBro 4 дні тому
When I saw how you talking about speakers of other languages and the contrast between θ, s and ʃ, I was half-expecting Spanish to make an appearance. You're right that European Spanish "s" is somewhere between s and ʃ, but within Spain it's more of a spectrum. To my ears, the examples you've picked sound very skewed towards ʃ, but there are people who pronounce it the opposite way and it's not really perceived as deviating from the standard. In fact, our former Prime Minister's way of speaking was extremely notorious precisely because he almost only used ʃ. That said, kudos for your pronounciation of the word "más". I had to do a double take when I heard it, it's completely flawless!
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