Hey guys, as many of you may be aware, new information has been released regarding the NOC saga, which may have rendered some of our views outdated. As with every episode, our aim is to explore different perspectives of a given situation, especially if it isn't one that is regarded as popular. On this episode, we wanted to explore possible reasons or attempt to explain certain behaviours that come from the stresses of running a company and how bosses can be easily attacked when their correspondence is taken out of context. At the time of filming, we did not have the context we do today and did not foresee the full extent of what has transpired. Many of you have kindly requested for us to address the latest allegations that have made light. We are opting to wait for the dust to settle before deciding whether to further comment on this.

I think we should not normalise the condescending way of treating employees by saying "That is the culture of SMEs and startups". Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right. And I also disagree with the statement "If you can't take it, you can just quit and move on." That is the reason why the environment of most SMEs and startups are so toxic because no one is brave enough to call out/change the toxicity. With this NOC saga, I hope it will serve as a warning letter to all the managers who are still treat their subordinates/employees poorly.

Still think that it is important to be professional, bosses can be strict without making personal attacks towards employees. Just because it is normal doesnt mean it is ok

Maybe my views are slightly more traditional. But whatever it is, whether it is a good or bad cop, i think the basic thing is to treat each other as a fellow human and give to them the basic rights to dignity. Even bad cops can still do their bad cop stuffs without being condescending, humiliating and downright being an asshole.

Exercising self-control and showing others respect are signs of maturity and professionalism, whether we are leaders or not, work in startups or MNCs.

I like JP and Denise's standpoint about the issue. Have a high respect to JP's words that " you as the boss no matter what you are, you set the example for your organization. To talk that way about another employee, how does that look and what is that trying to say and show to them that they can also do the same thing? " Just a thought, if this is the norm for bosses to talk this way to their employees and employees just need to adapt then will bosses like it if their employees will also do the same things or say the same things to them?

I love Denise's perspective and her questions towards the other hosts. Really an intellectual conversation.

Praise in public, critique in private. That's the basic premise of good management. You can be direct and give stern feedback. But do it in private. And do it constructively.

What Jon said is 100% true, not sure why his point was not elaborated further. It's fine to say "fuck" and other vulgarities, depending on the context. This in itself does not create a toxic culture. However as a boss and a founder of a company, it's part of your job to represent the culture that you want your company and employees to have. Taking shit about people behind their back, AS THE CEO, in group chats, is just very very poor form. This has nothing to do with "high energy startup environment" - this is just bad leadership.

we can be stern and strict without being toxic. why are we equating one to the other, and/or mixing up both? i have experienced "bad cop" management which was not toxic (something i appreciated), and also "good cop" leaders who were actually super toxic which took a toll on my mental health.

i dont really think its cancel culture but more of demanding that person to be completely transparent and owning up to their mistakes. basically asking her to take accountability of her actions

what a mature and sound conversation. Everyone needed this version instead of being so quick on taking sides

Normal doesn't make it right. U can put your point across but calling your staff names and using so much vulgarities has crossed the line. Don't forget she was also championing mental health awareness. How ironic.

Ok, since you guys asked for our experience. I once had superiors who were calling me names behind my back (no expletives just derogatory) and it got forwarded into a group chat where external people were in. I called them out and left the chat. One of them "apologised" for the slip of the other. But when I told him that both the person who texted that message and the person who forwarded the message (incidentally the Boss) should apologise to me for using derogatory term when speaking about me, no apology was sent from anyone. I have since left the company (due to a myriad of reasons.) But it is important I feel to call out bad behaviour and not condone it. Doesn't mean to "CANCEL" that person but sometimes it is just a blindspot and speaking to them about it may help them grow. In my opinion, if you want to rant about someone (1. you work with/ 2. you work for/ 3. they work for you) in confidence to another, because they have tested your patience sure. But when you have the sanity to speak objectively to said person, address the issue and move on. If they don't acknowledge/care, I would advise to anyone reading - stay professional and uphold your contractual obligation and once it is possible to move on do it. That's what I did.

I think what made everyone angry or blowing the whole matter up is because she is constantly talking about mental issues as a person who has been tackling it. And having her influence, she has a huge amount of audience that supports and respects her because of the persona that she shows, but is completely opposite in this recent drama in her own company. Not only is she the opposite, but she might even contribute to mental health issues in her workplace, which contradicts whatever that she represents? And let us not talk about her own drama with Ryan. Also, she sends a lawyer letter and constantly using the word 'alleged' against sgcikenrice, and didn't admit to her wrongdoings. Only after sgcikenrice decided to 'fight' her, she posted an apology letter in which Samantha pointed somethings that are untrue. I mean seriously nobody knows when will she ever be truly sorry, and at what cost. Despite everyone's effort to protect the rice bowl of NOC's talents. Pardon my english, hope everyone is able to understand.

Does not mean that the industry culture is as per such, it should be normalised. Professionalism should be two way. With clients and employees alike

I used to be from the cut throat MNC advertising industry, 4 companies. Using F is common, the only diff is, its an expression. But at least dont be a mean or unkind person, there is a diff. To me, those are character flaws....If U can speak to clients in a nice manner, why cant u do the same to yr own employees who laterally is working for U (helping u get job done and earn money)?

There's a important difference between targeting the situation or the person. Calling someone stupid is different from saying that what he/she did is stupid. A boss can be a 'bad cop' without insulting people.

I think more of us should speak up against abuse at work and not let it continue to be considered "normal".

Love Denise questions and perspective! Brings about really good conversation for podcast.

Petition to bring back the beaker!!

Appreciate the fair and objective discussion here. While yes previously it may seem like a malicious attack towards Sylvia, I feel like the employees who are providing all these info have probably exhausted all avenues to talk to her, or to approach the management, so putting all this dirty laundry online was likely the last resort. Especially the video where Ryan was trying so hard to talk to her and raised the concerns of the employees, and her not addressing it properly, it is likely that it is not a one-off incident, and I can understand why the employees behind these posts are so frustrated that they have resorted to such extreme measures.

The fact the vulgarities is called vulgarities because its derogatory by its essences, normalizing something that's derogatory is still inappropriate, why not think of it as "things that are normal may not be right or good", pointing it out and exposing it is not cancel culture, in fact we should see at as a reminder that as a boss or leader we should carry ourselves at a higher standard.

Never been in a SME company before so I'm not sure how it would actually feels like being called a fxxk face 🤔 but IF being in my current company, I was called that by my boss, I would definitely leave. Because to me that sounds like he or she obviously hates me hence I won't be able to progress anyway. (I doubt being called a fxxk face/ stupid will motivate me to become better also la, jing stress leh like that? How to NOT be a fxxk face to my boss??)

There is a fine line between a Bad Cop and a Crazy Cop

I think the mob reaction is definitely overblown - unsubstantiated allegations of infidelity/sexual misconduct should be refuted with authority, if false, a hundred percent. I think if Sylvia/Ryan wants to challenge these statements in the court of law, it’s entirely justified. These allegations run tangential to the original whistleblow, and are really quite obvious in their intent - to jump on a bandwagon, and discredit someone in a position of power, however possible. That, I agree, is as toxic as the behaviour that the mob is trying to denounce. On the other hand, I agree with a lot of the comments here that the crux of the issue, sans the distractions and noise, is what should be acceptable behaviour in the workplace. Your employees did not sign a contract to be verbally abused - REGARDLESS of the size of the company or the purported ‘workplace culture’. I absolutely REFUSE to believe that (1) honest, transparent, constructive feedback, (2) clear instructions or (3) the setting of firm boundaries necessitate the use of vulgarities. The bosses in the panel should really reflect - do the ends really justify the means? Just because it’s an easier way for you to get things from your employees, doesn’t mean it’s the RIGHT way to do it. Have you actually considered the opportunity costs of your behaviour (e.g. the impact of your words on your employees)? Your role is not just to ensure that your employees get paid. You are there to help your employees grow - personally and professionally. You are the benchmark and the role model. You represent the vision of the company. But please do not forget, you have an absolute obligation to protect the mental wellbeing of your employees as well. Look at all the the goals listed - money, growth, self-actualisation - and really think about whether bad language is a necessary means to achieve them. Just because some of your employees tolerate you, doesn’t mean it’s the right way to treat people. Of course, it’s entirely up to you, as head of the company, to fire anyone who doesn’t comply with your toxicity, but you really don’t want to be the boss who drives someone to the point of despair, or to really push the point, suicide.

Being direct and demanding doesn’t mean that you have to be verbally abusive or use vulgarities. At the end of the day, whether you are rich or poor, successful or still striving, powerful or powerless, treat people the way you want to be treated.

Whether the backlash Sylvia currently faces is fair or not is besides the point. Life isn't fair. You choose to be in the media industry, you take the good along with the bad. As a famous person, every little thing you do can potentially be used against you. Too bad if you don't have the aptitude to manage fame. Don't forget that even if she gets cancelled, she's still a millionaire. She deserves that, because she worked hard and grew the company successfully. Its a consequence of her hard work. Just like getting cancelled now is a consequence of her egotistical dictatorship style. Does she deserve a second chance? Maybe. But it's not up to her, it's up to the public. Like it or not, fair or not, you want to play in this media landscape, your ultimate bosses are the people.

Please do a part 2 with relations to the freshly released allegations! Would love to hear your analysis and takeaways from it:))

I'm not sure about start up culture since I have been in one. I ever met a big boss that verbally abuse my boss to the point that my boss felt that he is worthless and becomes suicidal. When my boss talk to the big boss regarding this issue, the big boss continue to verbally abuse him and told him that everywhere is the same. My boss is convinced that he is worthless and no one will hire him due to his age, so he doesn't even have the courage to look for jobs . I spent almost a year time trying to convince my boss to look for a job and leave. He is REALLY capable, just that he couldn't see his worth due to his toxic boss. Now my boss have left the company and he stops having suicidal thoughts. He is at a better work place now. In fact, the big boss has been asking him to go back to the company. I'm glad that my boss didn't went back since he heard that his big boss is still as toxic as ever. Some said that she is just a straight forward boss. I agrees that there is nothing wrong with being straight forward, in fact I like people who are straight forward even sometimes it hurts to hear the truth. But there is a difference between being straight forward vs being a jerk. Not long ago, I heard from my friend that his company also had a toxic boss, and the behavior is called out because one of his colleague almost killed herself. Police report is made, the C levels make some changes. The toxic boss is still toxic but just not as bad as before. Looking back at what happened to my boss, I shouldn't have just told my boss to leave, I should have told him to report it to the higher management so that we could stop this toxic work culture. According to my boss 17 years of working in that company, many of his colleagues have left the company due to health issue, some are physical, some are mental. Those who stayed just thought that those who left are not strong enough, until one day their body takes a troll. Toxic work culture doesn't stop just because people left the company, because there will be many who stays thinking that this is a norm, and people who leaves are just weak. I think that toxic work culture should be addressed and not wait until when one life is loss. It should NEVER be normalized. This being said, not everyone dares to be whistleblower. If the industry is small, everyone will know that he/she reported his/her boss to the authority. Not all bosses will hire a whistleblower especially if they are one of the not so ideal bosses.

I think u all shld do a follow up now that mustsharenews have shared a new article with interviews of several ex-noc staff. It’s no longer about one person, but how she treats everyone including Ryan.

think not every employee can be 'ready to leave' when met with such situation in a company. Many factors play a part, i.e. feeding one's family during an economy crisis. I think most people who relate to this and shown hate might be putting themselves in the shoes of the employee being scolded as 'f face' by the boss. No one in the right mind will want to be scolded for doing something wrong - it bcomes a form of negative reinforcement and the only way to motivate the employee is to strike fear. Leaders should be inspiring employees and not striking fear into them, only then will the company prosper. My 2cents.

Excited to hear John's new perspective with the new information! 👀

No excuses for anyone who brings about toxicity to the work place even more so for those on the leadership team. One of my ex bosses was exactly like that and to be working under such toxic influence, being gaslighted on a regulated basis becomes the norm. Even when you know there are documented evidence/willing witnesses that can get him/her fired by HR, there is still a massive fear to make the 1st step and whistleblow on them. Especially when HR in your company is the kind that doesn't want to cause trouble/have this escalated to higer management.

Can we have a second episode discussing some of the issues raised in the comments?? It’ll be gold

"You as the boss, no matter what, you set an example for your organisation" "No boss wants to make their employees unhappy, and their productivity dip"

What happen to Real Talk 1? 🤣

If dee kosh wasn't in trouble, he would have covered this saga as well for sure

Would love to see a part 2 of the debate based on the new allegations and updates. This debate is great!

Had unsubscribed from NOC after hearing such news. Never like supporting any company fostering Toxic workplace culture Which is unfortunately so prevalent in Singapore. And by the way, We should not normalised such behaviours. It is NOT right to be disrespectful to your employees, PERIOD!

Yall gotta do a follow up episode after the stuff that came out today. You guys had some interesting views but this kinda changes the whole narrative considering now it's not just one person involved.

It's always not about what was done but about the way it handled.

The head bop at the start tho😂😂

Firstly, there is a need to expose her because as a follower of her I would want to know her true colors since she obviously does not advocate mental health as she seems to be. Secondly, being a bad cop doesn’t mean you have the right to use vulgarities on your employees. There are many bosses acting as a bad cop and still able to put across their points bluntly in a professional way.

This was a very well-balanced conversation.

i think at the end of the day, communication is key. Talk it out, understand each others' intentions

The chemistry is great betw u four! Keep it up! I love yr views!!!

Sigh. Doesn’t mean all 3 startups you work in has that toxic culture, doesn’t mean it’s OK to say it’s Normal. And to say it’s normal that Media industry is like that…

time for follow up episode? 🤔🤔

My ex AD was always smiling to me and approved my leave. On the day of my performance review, he list down all the days I took leave and said if I am unable to meet the expectation, look for something else. (This is scary) Now I understand what is 笑里藏刀

About the Gordon Ramsey example, Gordon owns that persona and everyone knows what to expect. Unless Sylvia and NOC are transparent with their employees that that is their culture, there needs to be corrective behaviour from the top

I like the discussions with differing views. Keep it up! 💯

Kudos to Denise n Jon Paul ….Especially about the way a boss speaks to his/her employees

Honestly, I think this whole thing blew up because she didn’t respond in time and let it fester. The C&D letter is just putting oil into fire. As someone working in the media industry, shouldn’t it be common sense to put out a statement ASAP when this thing trended? Also, I think it is still very demeaning and derogatory to call someone stupid in a group chat where other people can see, no matter how normal this culture is in the media industry. I think as one of the faces and the manager of company, Sylvia should hold herself better especially in public capacity.

I don't understand why there's a need to use expletives??? I think it's unnecessary...really..

This channel stands out with their authenticity. My only complain is if the hosts can speak up a little. Sorrie old folk here.

Another great episode! Thanks for covering the many views and sides of this SAGA, its refreshing to hear an open conversation around these kinds of issues :)

Love you guys!!!! It’s good to always see you guys upload videos

Culture defines an organisation. I'm not for or against Sylvia's actions because she, as a co-founder defines the culture of the organisation. Completely agree to all the arguments and pointers mentioned in this podcast, very mature and objectively pointed on.

a very welcome podcast..great job to all and keep up the good work & relevant topic(s)

It’s not just wat u say, it’s how you said it.

would it help if one’s salary was high 10k/20k - I mean this is common in IB but the pay is good to smoothen the pain though it works in the short run arguably

Pertaining to Dan's point which he was speaking about at 10:50 and a little before, if I as an employee had known that the company culture that I am supposedly going to work for consisted of bosses hurling vulgarities at workers whenever they are frustrated and justifying it with being concerned about the company's bottom line, I wouldn't have agreed to take on that job even if they accepted me after the interview. I don't think it is fair to tell the employees that, "hey, this is the culture here, if you can't take the heat, get out" when they are already in the job. If the bosses only wanted people who could take the "heat", be clear and upfront about it in the interview. I don't think it is fair to expect new entrants to the workforce or that particular industry to know the ins-and-outs of the industry, if they had never worked in there before or be exposed to such an environment.

Tea is boiling hot. Birds of the same kind flocks together and they will receive their timely retribution. She is "friends" with burqq chua (an influencer under jh) and burqq chua is one of my ex class mates. She is super toxic as well and is a big bully (super rude and entitled). No gaslighting, not online bullying but I am calling out burqq chua as she has tormented so many people with her bullying and yet still put up a goody two shoes act in front of the camera. I guess they really have the same personalities hence can bond so well together. Also just based on my personal experience and like many of the other commentators have said, a "bad" cop doesn't mean you can say vulgarities or bully people to the point where they feel suicidal. Being in power doesn't give you the chance to torment others. I truly believe in karma, if sylvia is really just being stern/strict, the whole company won't be standing up against you.

It's fine if you want to be stern or fierce or a bad cop in front of your employees so that you can get things moving when things needs to be done. But it can be achieved without using derogatory terms.

love that you guys are speaking of this in a non biased perspective. People are really just too quick to jump into the bandwagon of cancelling people, calling them names, cursing them to die and shit, not knowing they are being hypocrites of what they supposedly "fight" for. its like, these people are calling names and saying vulgarities towards sylvia for trying to cancel her because of her language. Its not new that we all know sylvia as a fierce and vulgar boss, and the guts for the people that exposed her really just hated her to the core and just wanted NOC and her to die, while acting like victims and gaining public sympathy (manipulating society through sympathy)(which is something that disgusts me alot). What i have noticed so far throughout m y life is that people that are the most straightforward, the most angry people are also the most genuine people ever. It is those people that act nice and call themselves victims are the real perpetrators. Things like this should be dealt with amongst themselves and not to be brought into the public eye. NOC creates content for us to watch, and thats all. We should not be involved in their internal drama that should have been solved between themselves. It has been very frustrating to see people, especially of my generation, to jump to conclusions so quickly and being such hypocrites. Im sure most of them arent even fans and dont even watch their content. PEople just want to hate, and bring negativity to others, which is fking disgusting to me. ANyway, i like your contents, i also liked deekosh and Thethirstysisters contents, however they have been taken down. I hope your contents will remain gold and not get cancelled too :")

I have realised that many Singaporeans are saying that the work that they do is too tiring (e.g Having to do OTs) or that they are underpaid. Which I can understand. Especially if your job was told to be a 9-5 job. Being in an F&B industry as a student for some reason I have felt that Its normal to be working 12 hours. I do feel that the pay is very low (e.g 6 days work week 11hours / Day. $2.1k Salary) we get paid shit but we stay for passion. But not only do we get paid like shit. We are also treated like shit. Many people in sg treat their servers or chefs like servants which Is very very wrong. Just wanted to share this out

You can call me vulgarity as I do to you/others as well. I'm not okay to be emotionally abused the point you make me self-doubt my worth and desire to live. No one should go through such trauma be it whether he/she is your boss, partner, friend or family member. Life is too short to grow up in an abusive environment. That's my thought. And, great episode btw! :)

Informative, balance and positive video. All the best to u guys and hope u all expand bigger.

they should really talk about sg dating adventures in the next episode

the episode i've been waiting for :kek:

No leh I disagree that no boss wants people to be unhappy working in the company. It really depends on the personality / character of the leader . To add on, if you study management style, some management personnel strive by creating conflict within the company to drive changes. The very fact that she got continuously attacked shows that those people know this girl wouldn’t change despite the initial leak .

Respect begets respect. Too many vulgar words used at work is appalling. Be professional or one might use it unintentionally to your clients

Regarding cursing: I work in high stress environments all the time, and not a single time did we use "F**k" on a colleague, boss or junior. Start up, or not, whether verbally or text.

Please do a follow up episode after her interview with Xiaxue! 😊 She did an excellent job of interviewing Sylvia!

Striving for best does not mean is to belittle ppl’s abilities, capabilities, intellectuals & all. respect is the key word.

I think the real question is *How many people in NOC uses the word "Fxck" or "Fxck Face"?* If half the company uses this word, then Sylvia is just talking as per the company's culture. I hear Ryan saying the F word a lot too. Whether it's just an expression or to attack someone personally, how sure are we that the NOC employees do not openly call each other Fxck Face? I don't condone name calling but I'd also like to know whether this term is just used loosely in the company and the Sgcickenrice account is just cherry-picking on Sylvia's words only?

A good boss sets standards and expectations for the employees A successful boss will convince employees to set better standards for themselves and for the company

I think the line should be drawn between being co-workers and being friends. It is certainly Sylvia's lesson to learn that she can use whatever language she likes with her friends but be professional in workspace, be abit more proper, and respect people that works for her. Because its a shared environment and not everyone shares the same level of closeness/relationship. On the other hand, i'm not sure if social media used in this manner to stand up for justice is the best way.. Perhaps raise the issue to your boss in private, respectfully first? I mean any boss that doesn't take the conversation in the right way, you probably also don't want to work under him/her in the longer term..

The fact that no one compared the AirAsia saga with the Sylvia saga. It's literally the same saga but difference is one is MNC and one is SME.

I think partly why Sylvia is getting a lot of hate is because isn't she like a big advocate for mental health (Super sensitive issue), so she acting the way she did makes it so hypocritical and was she just representing it because of the benefits that only SHE will get? :/ It kinda makes people mad because the influencer world is already as fake as it can get, so what's there to trust? Knowing Sylvia's on screen personality, it's not surprising that she speaks this way, not saying that it is justified, but combined with other surfacing allegations, it makes more serious than it actually is.

the easter egg at the end HAHHA

Stupid is a super lousy word to use to anyone on earth. Imagine if your child is being scolded in sch & u as parents heard/witness it. How do u feel?

If 1 person or 2 person says that something is wrong with the boss then it might be personal issue. But when so many of them or all of them are saying the same problem then all should resign? They all are not cut out for the environment? Or all of them are the problem not the boss.

Well balanced discussion from angles from managers, HODs and bosses of company. I do agree that we have a choice, if the environment is not suitable, employee can choose to resign. Working in start-up or corporates is not a bed of roses, especially for companies who need profits to survive and pay the employees. Employees can raise to the agencies/ authorities than spilling and doing expose online, i guess? Putting things online is only a one sided view and put in a vulnerable position. If they do things wrongly, then there are guidelines to "correct" her behaviour than punished by the cancel culture.

14:35 "because I've also worked with people they you never know where you stand with them. They don't bother telling you. They keep it to themselves. They want you to quit but they don't fire you. They force you to a corner for you to resign and make your job suck and then they blame and .."

Would like to hear your views (NOC saga pt. 2) with the recent list of allegations and evidences that has come out. Do you still believe that only using vulgar words would have made the employees retaliate? And why were they holding back so far? Was Ryan the neutralising factor? What could happen next?

People should really look at Jian Hao and see how he runs his company. He build’s all the talents up and people genuinely like working with him and being around him. The employees actually fight for him and his visions because he fights for them. Startup is a bad excuse for poor management. When you watch the videos he produces you can see the quality due to the cohesive environment he has created.

Common/normal doesn’t meant it’s acceptable ok. U can be a deliver the problem/issues and still be civilise. Bruh. Good leader knows how to communicate properly and still evaluate employees.

Everyone starts as a ‘clean sheet of paper’, so we try our best to fill the paper with positivity and this encompass on how to be a person with words of grace, patience, good wisdom. Not fill the paper with words & actions of negativity & vulgarities.🤟

Professionalism should always be priorities in any organization if a manager finds that an attitude is unacceptable then a personal chat is warranted and trash it out. Not using group chat or personal msgs i may be old school but a face to face chat is better expectations can be manage or the employee can move on.

not the CICAKMAN reference. is John accepting friend requests?

How about the army? The recruits everyday kena vulgarities from sergeants and officers leh.

Love this podcast!

Anyone excusing her behavior has never worked in a large listed MNC, where there is a proper HR department and whistleblower platform to sound out these disrespectful behaviors that even the CEO is also held accountable for. Anecdotally speaking, I was young and wide-eyed when I held my first job in a Singapore SME, and I didn’t understand the line between professional feedback and personal attacks. If anyone ever had a slight doubt on whether any workplace interaction with your bosses was just merely poor leadership/ management skills or pure unprofessionalism, I urge you to check with objective third parties. If things seemed iffy, you may consider lodging a complaint with your HR department, and if all else fails, lodge a complaint with MOM or even consult someone at NTUC Union.

Bad cop turned evil

if this is normal in the workplace then why is this becoming a big issue now? 🤷🏻‍♀️

You see the source of mental health problems? Where being scolded vulgarities is supposed to be 'normal'...no its not.

Why should using vulgarities be accepted? We do it alot in NS, in our younger days(and most of us grow out of it) but it's not acceptable at all just because she's in a media company or startup culture. That's like saying oh, showbiz is all about , so it's ok for people like Show Luo, Seungri etc. to do what they did? I think for 2 individuals to use vulgarities or even Singlish, certain level of trust and respect needs to be established first (2 way). It’s ok to use Singlish with your friends but with your big boss or first time clients? Try to reduce la. Great discussion but I just don't agree on that point. Leaving is always a choice but many people get "trapped" in pushing on esp for a bigger company like NOC.

The good cop/bad cop method is definitely necessary as long as there is human interaction and I want to believe that the intention always comes from a point of wanting something or someone to improve. This is regardless of the "cop's" personality, I think the issue is that we don't do enough effective damage control after the criticism is given; esp when the bad cops hat is put on. The way I do it is, I will address the flaws and areas of improvement of the person because it is needed, but I always follow up with guiding the person to improve or to discover/channel the person to another avenue where he/she can discover his/her potential and excel as a person. This follow up process will take some time but I take the responsibility because I was the one that chose to point these things out to you and it is mindful to not place a time period on this as well as everyone requires different time periods to improve/re-discover.