I also want to say that, most of the koopaling bosses have nothing to do with the level there in. For example, Larry's torpedo castle has zero torpedo based obstacles in the actual boss. Or, Roy's conveyer castle has conveyers in it, until the boss where Roy has a Bill blaster instead.

The biggest problem is No Batman :(

no joke I was telling a friend about Bowser's palette swap brother yesterday. it's such a stupid and pointless piece of trivia that i kind of love it. Imagine being Bowser's brother, realizing you'll never be as cool as him.

The Koopalings had a ton of potential for wonder, they all have unique personalities and some like Ludwig ca flutter jump I wouldn't have minded to have them in Wonder

I've always said that the Koopalings wouldn't be so ill recieved if they actually tried to make them interesting. They have cool designs and personalities, but the amount of time you have to hit them is criminal. It's why I mostly never have a problem with Ludwig. Not only does he always have the most interesting patterns, he is also allowed to actually show it off. I really like your ideas on both how the Koopalings can be more than just more colourful Boom Booms but also how we can have them and cool new bosses too.

Idk man, iggy fight #4 is pretty epic

Use the Koopalings for the mid points, Bowser Jr for airships and unique world bosses = recipe for a successful experience

Replace all bosses with boom boom. Problem solved

Honestly I feel like Paper Mario Color Splash did a good job with the koopalings, they each were themed with the world they were in, (for example Larry riding a train and Ludwig’s Ludship) and they had different ways to fight them. I wonder how well that style would translate into a 2d Mario game.

WHY IS COOL BOWSER NOT AN OFFICIAL BOSS FIGHT COME ON NINTENDO

It's repetition. Like in New Super Mario Bros DS, every Bowser Junior fight is basically the same with a slight difference. Oh no, the arena is _slippery,_ or it *moves.*

If there's one thing I wish Mario would borrow from Megaman, it's the approach to bosses. Even on the NES, Megaman games had bosses that were pretty intricate, interesting, and all distinct from one another. Their designs and gimmicks are intertwined with the stages they inhabit, giving them each a very strong sense of identity despite their relatively low screentime. I know these are two different series, but I've heard people say that the point platformers is to do platforming, but fight bosses, so why should it matter? But you definitely _can_ do bosses really well in a platforming game.

I think the real issue is that for many of these fights you aren't really "fighting" the boss, you're just waiting for them to finish their invincibility cycle so you can jump on them again. There is so much waiting in these fights.

Super Paper Mario, while not a mainline 2D game, probably has my favorite bosses from any 2D Mario. They’re easy, yes, but they’re all unique and fun. You do repeat fights sometimes, like O’Chunks and Mimi, but they’re typically midbosses and not the main boss of that chapter.

I just wanna say love the editing here that you put in this video. It's so well-established and I could never stop myself from grinning at the little FNAF and low-quality picture gags 😂👌

I liked the boss ideas in Yoshi’s Island, they are all larger versions of regular enemies and feel uniquely different. Also the Fight with Bowser was great.

2:50 technically half the Jr. fights are supposed to be a little different since he puts on his bandana for the latter half of the game, giving him enough braincells to hide in his shell if you try to jump on him. Even though it makes the intentional way of fighting him a little tricker and more unique, it doesn't mean much when it's not impossible to chain-combo him 3 times, and his behavior change doesn't even matter if you can fireball him to win in 2 seconds

This man did not just insult the magnum opus that is Boom Boom fight #14

tbh invincibility moments for the koopalings is a bandaid fix. They should always be vulnerable but take more hits, less stun between hits, no sliding around in the shell, but attacks that can intercept you in the air so it's risky to chain hit them.

Odyssey's refusal to ever say Mollusque Lanceur's name always gets me

4:20 (nice) Dont worry, Odyssey! We're ok with multiple cool bowser references per video!

They need to have a mario vs Luigi boss fight where it’s like a computer of a second player going against you

The problem is that it’s not made for everyone, unlike the normal platforming. The platforming can be easy or hard depending on if you go for all collectibles, but boss fights are the same difficulty for everyone.

2:11 One thing you forgot to mention is that in the NES version, Clawgrip (or Clawglip, depending on which you prefer) was added to the game because in Doki Doki Panic, that fight was originally a third battle with Mouser.

‘I hope they add Rango in the next mario kart game.‘’ what a legend

I think the best way to make bosses account for all skill levels is to just allow for high risk plays to defeat the bosses quicker. Odyssey does this for some of its bosses and they’re the best. You can stomp on topper during his spin attack or when he’s sliding on the ground to end the phase early, but it requires you to put yourself in harms way. If you’re a skilled player, it’ll let you complete the boss faster and if you’re not, you can just wait the attack out and they’ll eventually reveal their weak point naturally.

Wonder not imitating Yoshi's Island bosses (ie, regular enemy supe'd up on Kamek's magic) was a *HUGE* missed opportunity.

as a developer who is working on a 2D mario fangame, I can confirm this information is true

I feel like 2D Mario Bosses peaked in the first New Super Mario Bros game. It was such a great variety.

I LOVE the Koopalings because I love turtles!

Amazing watch I had there. I love the style you chose for the "and then there is that" - moments. Made me burst out in laughter tbh

As a kamek fan, I was so sad when he was only in cutscenes

I still can’t believe how unbelievably bad the bosses were in Wonder. Not only did they do the Koopalings again and reskinned them to all look the same but the also just straight up made two worlds not even have a boss to begin with. I audibly laughed only my first playthrough after playing two world without any final level in a row. Also really enjoying the editing in this one. Great video.

They knew how to do it in Yoshis Island though...

"you can just hit them before they get to attack" meanwhile, Spewart:

The Koopalings are the embodiment of “Unfortunately, it seems this is the best we can do.”

7:06 Larry is supposed to Larry all over the place

This is why DK is more liked by the fans when it comes to bosses, while the first Country game had repeated bosses, the rest have unique boss fights minus the ghost Necky from Country 2, even Kirby has unique fights despite each one having a version of Whispy Woods

1:25 Bowser is indeed very cool.

I think Mario Maker 2 shows, that changing the environment instead of the mechanics is another great way to improve boss fights. Some levels have amazing boss fights and even Nintendo themselves created some pretty unique ones in the SMM2-campaign. (Btw, I love your videos! Amazing editing, I can’t even imagine how time consuming it is to film and cut these❤)

Mario bros. DS makes me kinda sad that they messed up wonder’s bosses

Here's my boss loadout: World 1-Tower: Larry World 1-Castle: New Boss World 2-Tower: Iggy World 2-Castle: New Boss World 3-Airship: Boom-Boom World 3-Tower: Wendy World 3-Castle: New Boss World 4-Tower: Roy World 4-Castle: New Boss World 5-Airship:Pom-Pom World 5-Tower: Lemmy(The theme would be a circus-forest theme) World 5-Castle: Petey Piranha(It fits with the world theme.) World 6-Tower: Morton World 6-Castle: New Boss World 7-Airship: Boom-Boom and Pom-Pom World 7-Tower: Ludwig World 7-Castle: New Boss World 8-Tower: Bowser Jr. World 8-Airship: All the Koopalings World 8-Dungeon(The level right before 8-Castle): Kamek World 8-Castle: Bowser World 9 Last Level: Boss Rush! Comments if there should be any changes.

This was a very well-done video, props to you. I liked a lot of your suggestions (not being able to cheese Koopalings, having Koopalings only be mid-bosses, etc) and this was an overall fun look at the different approaches 2D Mario took to its boss designs (my favorite is still NSMB DS. I miss you, Mummipokey). I think another way to make the Koopaling fights more unique is to give them different attack patterns for when they retreat into their shells. Have Lemmy bounce around while in his shell, have Morton fly up and try to slam down onto Mario (like what Pop Pom does in 3D Land), have Wendy defy gravity and bounce around the arena like a DVD screensaver (also ties into how her rings function), and so on. It's not the biggest change but it would definitely go a long way in upping the uniqueness of these fights.

Luigi's mansion 2 does the "koopaling" thing brilliantly with the professor ghosts. They possess or summon the actual boss and they only get attacked when the boss itself is vulnerable

Cool video! I know you said you don't want to rank all of the bosses just yet, but how would you rank the 2d games by the quality of their bosses?

I just realised I was the first one to view this 😂😂. Love the video :) also a really simple way of making these bosses more engaging is maybe restricting powerups (or have a specific power up) and more hitpoints

3:48 bro's words TANKED in credibility with a take that bad

Three hit syndrome is also an issue with Mario bosses

The only boss that repeats in Odyssey in a bad way is Spewart. He barely changes at all between fights and it makes me sad. They should have made him spit out lava for his Luncheon fight

I’ll never forget the experience of reaching New Super Mario Bros Wii’s final boss of Bowser growing to the size of the screen and you being forced to platform away because nothing you can do will even scratch him. it was such an amazing memory, especially as such a young kid playing with my siblings. it holds a very dear place in my heart.

In my experience, they seem to go all out for the final bosses but the smaller bosses get a worse treatment. Take NSMBW for example, where Bowser chases you frantically and you have to use his attacks to clear the way. I also think the FIRST Bowser Jr boss fight would have been perfectly fine if the other ones were unique. I can literally think of plenty of ideas off the top of my head. What if YOU became a goomba and some random goomba became whatever character you were playing? What if Kamek got the wonder flower and started to manipulate the world to previous locations is some crazy chase scene? What if you had to fight an increasing number of shadow Mario clones by leading them into beams of light?

You actually hit the nail with the hammer with that "Wonders boss lineup is just DS' villain bosses without the world bosses". All of Bowser Jr. fights in Wonder are honestly pretty decent if you're comparing it to the previous game's mid-world bosses, but because he's the ACTUAL boss of the worlds, it feels underwhelming. And on top of that, it would have been really easy to just give these worlds the NSMB treatment. We got all these new enemies, many of which are WORLD SPECIFIC, and all these Wonder effects and we SEE them combined for some of the levels. We literally get King Boo as a Wonder effect to basically be just a glorified autoscroll wall, so why they didn't just go all out on this for the bosses is beyond me. Also kinda unrelated, but they really should have had Kamek, who SPAWNS the airship, as the actual BOSS of the airships, because it's kinda a problem when there's a genuine question if the machine we get at the end counts as a boss or not

14:52 I love it becomes sad and then becomes joyful with that background music

The reason Wonder’s bosses stand at as so bad is because Nintendo has been making really good bosses lately, and has been knocking it out of the park with their final bosses especially. Tears Of The Kingdom, Forgotten Land, even Splatoon 3 have all had incredible final battles, so the expectations for this were really high.

I love how there is NOT batman

I think I know how to add a boss to these worlds that don’t have a single boss in Mario Wonder. For Shining Falls (W3), I think that they could still keep that scene of Master Poplin giving the Royal Seed to Mario, and it actually should collect it before the boss fight, but Bowser Jr (or maybe another guy) steals it from Mario (kinda like the final fight in Yoshi’s Crafted World) and one gives it back after the fight. It could be the same thing for Fungi Mines (W5), but it could feel repetitive. Instead, I propose that the “miner” Poplins mine a key for the palace that Bowser Jr (or ya know, maybe another guy) accidentally lost, so now Mario is able to use it to enter the palace and defeat the boss. Hope ya like it!

I think the "not *_enough_* bosses" problem of Mario Wonder, can be pointed to as a factor in making a game feel full in general. Even in NSMBU where you had two bosses per world and 3-4 more put in very specific positions, that's still less than 20 bosses. A JRPG can oftentimes have 30-50 and each of those fights is *_longer_* than a simple three-stomp cycle. There's really no harm in just increasing the number of fights. But you still need to have more variation to give them a point. I say that an eight-world format could use similar theming rules to your suggestion. You could use 2-4 of these four boss domains per world, in any order and quantity depending on the world: 1. Checkpoint keep. This is a tower, fortress, outpost, etc. used by a boss-class enemy that isn't a single character necessarily, such as Birdo, Boom Boom, Reznor, Big Boo, Undergrunt Gunner... 2. Koopalings' personal airships. Full airship level, with the respective Koopaling as the boss. Each is still themed to the world it's in, but much more subtly, such as being fitted with equipment used to perform standard tasks related to the world before Mario got there. 3. Themed dungeon. Each with unique map model, such as a temple, giant tree, stadium, flaming ruins, a colossus. The boss would match the dungeon theme and tie into the world-contained story arc, such as Knucklotec guarding the ring. 4. Stronghold/Key strategic position. A castle, command center, naval base, mine and refinery, a factory, etc. The boss here has something to do with the world arc directly, and the level and boss can be themed after the world plot, rather than the world itself - King Bob-Omb, Petey Piranha, Kamek, Chief Chilly, those ones. The bosses don't need to *_strictly_* adhere to the type of domain, even if they still fit the theme. You could have an early-game stronghold boss be a checkpoint keep boss later, such as the non-individual boss-class enemies Boom Boom and Reznor, or the make-it-bigger-and-stronger regular enemies Goomba, Sumo Bro and Chain Chomp. The world's Koopaling may abandon ship and leave you with a boss they set upon Mario, before taking off to be the dungeon boss instead. You may have a recurring boss who changes how they fight, and can be put in any level category, such as Bowser Jr, or Kamek. Any other boss that has a rematch, can get extra things in the fight, like fighting two Boom Booms, or Kamek hangs out in the background while you try to fight an Undergrunt Gunner. Finally, make direct plot links between the bosses. If the stronghold comes before the dungeon boss, maybe have the commander in a video call with Bowser about the progress of their operation, then later, the dungeon boss thinks you're the invading force it was warned about. If you put the Koopaling airship between the dungeon and checkpoint, then said Koopaling may have tracked Mario down to slow his approach to the objective. If there's another faction in the plot, have them explain why they're at this level, or a little detail about the boss they're summoning if they're not it - such as finding Princess Shroob at a flash-freezing facility where you navigate over liquid nitrogen instead of lava, and she frees a Shrooboid. There are so many ways to make 2D platforming work in a way where the bosses are fun, and there's an actual story. It really isn't hard.

Yoshi’s Island had the best bosses. It wasn’t just where the whole Giga-bowser and Kamek shenanigans started, but also the different way each boss had to be figured out, and the creepy designs of a lot of them. The Black Bird on the moon, The Koopa, Giant Baby Bowser… that game left me speechless when I first saw those bosses

Honestly I would love more bosses that are just the enemies but bigger/stronger. Giant Goomba functions similarly to a normal Goomba, but now you actually have to think about how to get all the way on top of his head. Something similar could work for a giant Koopa Troopa, or a giant Hammer Bro. Heck, they could even do something with newer enemies, like a giant Outmaway that you have to approach while it kicks blocks at you

I'm so glad you're the only person that who gives the full story regarding New Super Mario DS boss battles. The castle fights are creative, sure, but absolutely everyone forgets about the horrid Bowser Jr. fights in the towers, which are honestly worse than the Koopaling fights. They're so mindless: You just use a fire flower at him for a couple of times, and you're done right then and there.

You don’t need to have only one cool bowser reference per video. We want more cool bowser!!

I think the main weak point for Mario 2D boss fights while a couple other long-running 2D platformer series (Mega Man and Kirby in particular) tend to have _great_ boss fights comes down to this: Mario's moveset, or lack thereof. Mega Man's core moveset is to walk left and right, jump, shoot a horizontal projectile, and a burst of horizontal movement while grounded (a slide/dash that shrinks his vertical hitbox and moves him quickly). Every main stage boss can be approached and defeated using only these moves, and their projectiles and movement patterns can be set up based on knowledge this array of moves is at his disposal. Kirby's core moveset is to walk left and right, jump, slide along the ground similar to how Mega Man does (barely ever used), fly slowly in the air, spit out a puff of air when leaving his flying state, and to suck in and spit out various objects including certain stage blocks and enemy projectiles. Boss fights can thus be designed with the knowledge Kirby can always escape from pits, and the boss itself can generate the projectiles for Kirby to throw at it by overextending an attack against him and being evaded. So far as I know, all bosses are immune to the little puff of air Kirby exhales when leaving his flying state while regular stage enemies usually aren't. Mega Man can also gain permanent powerups to replace his horizontal projectile with more powerful attacks, attacks with a different trajectory more amenable to hitting a boss's particular movement pattern, or a "rock paper scissors" mechanic of doing extra damage based on sometimes esoteric logic. The special weapon that is more effective could also be designed to be one that's innately harder to hit with, making a risk/reward system to mastering the use of it. Kirby can bring in temporary powerups to change his attack moveset in various ways, though he's apt to drop these if hit (sometimes every hit, sometimes every few hits). Mario, though? Mario can walk left and right, can jump, and can sometimes do special types of jump (wall kick, spin jump, midair twirl, ground pound) from game to game. Of these, only "jump on top of the enemy's head" is a default damage cause state available to Mario in every powerup state he might have, so all these 2D bosses need to be designed around being beatable with either that or with evasion and triggering a stage hazard (switch block or convenient axe to chop down a bridge). All the Mario boss fights need to be beatable as the regular Mario, not even Super Mario much less require the Fire Flower, Tanooki Tail, Super Cape, or whatever. Stage enemies can build on the base mechanics to be fireproof but not jump-proof, or to be spiky on top but killable with fireballs, or immune to fire but weak to ice, but the boss fights can interact with none of this gameplay nuance the standard stage enemies spend the majority of your playtime teaching or enforcing in the main gameplay loop. Now, think about Super Mario Bros. 2 for a bit. Think about the main thing it did different in combat from the other 2D Mario games before and since, and how its boss fights are all bangers. That's right, it's _throwing_ . Mario doesn't harm enemies by jumping on them in SMB2 and while some still hurt to attempt to jump on top of, various enemies and objects can be picked up and thrown as projectiles. Similar to the Kirby example, this lets some bosses set the pace of the fight by spawning the projectiles in an attempt to hit Mario, and also lets some projectiles be placed inside the boss arena manually by the developers to give specific desired properties to the flow of the fight. Mario _can_ grab and throw objects in Super Mario Bros 3, World, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii; I'd presume he can in the other 2D Mario games made since 3 as well, and yet fights that rely on this core mechanic are scant (Big Boo in Super Mario World is literally the only one I can think of). Simply having foes that can't be jumped on and spawn in some sort of projectile that needs to be thrown, especially if they get better at evading it or avoiding easy setups to be hit by it as the fight progresses, mixed in with bosses who can be jumped on...that would do it, really. 3D Mario doesn't have this problem because in basically all of those, _some_ bosses need you to jump/ground pound on them, some need to be grabbed, some need things grabbed and thrown at them, some need to be punched/kicked when they leave themselves open, and if there's a shiny new toy (FLUDD, Cappy) you can bet they're going to be used quite a bit in boss fights as well as stages.

Also a reminder that Kamek appears in Wonder but you never fight him. Imagine a Wonder Kamek battle with his magic being amplified.

I was really expecting wonder to have incredible bosses considering the creativity behind it

Why we have to fight the same people over and over again in 2D Mario games

Nsmb was so close with the boss thing, if they take the original bosses at final castles theme and use the koopalings or smtn for mid bosses (with the budger I frames) then the bosses would genuinely be fantastic

Putting the games into a tier list(based on how good their bosses are): SMB1/Lost Levels: C- These are the first two games, so they get a pass, but they still aren't good. SMB2: C+ Bosses are unique in design and attacks, but points are lost for Birdo repetition SMB3: C Similar case with the first three games, fortress bosses repeat, Koopalings are different but feel the same, Bowser carries SMW: A The Koopalings have different attacks compared to SMB3, Reznor repeats but the secret exists needed to get to each fortress make up for it, Big Boo as a boss is a neat idea, wish he was in more games, Bowser boss music is cool SML: C- Bosses are unique, but they're too easy SML2: B- Bosses are more unique, but still nothing special NSMB(DS): A Bosses are all different and cool, the only reason it's not 'S' is because the final boss is mid, at least the theme is cool, Bowser Jr repeating is fine because of what Nintendo was trying to do at the time NSMBWii: B+ Tower bosses in Worlds 1-7 are mid, Bowser fight is one of the best in the Mario series NSMB2: B Tower bosses repeat, Koopaling fights are mid, the Bowser and Dry Bowser fights carry NSMBU/NSLU: B+ Boom Boom fights are very mid, best Koopaling fights, Bowser Jr has cool boss fights, this Bowser is my favorite mostly for the theme SMB Wonder: A+ Bowser Jr might repeat, but he's different enough for me to like, the only reason this isn't 'S' tier is because I wish there were more bosses

You are wrong 3D Land has the greatest boss fight of all time

One of the BEST "boss fights" in MM2 i had ever gotten to enjoy (watching) was a very well built level fully themed around a Ghost Ship using Dry Fish where they can fully "swim" and unfortunately if you hit the POW's too fast the level breaks.

In SB3, when you fight the miniboss at the end, it is always after a tough ship. So it is good that they are similar and you can get used to fighting them. I always enjoyed it in my playthrough.

So I'm guessing that the graphic at 1:34 is all the 2D Mario games that you're including in your 2D Mario level ranking video? I think it's a shame that the e-Reader levels from the GBA version of Mario 3 aren't present, because those are my all-time favorite 2D Mario levels, but this was what I was expecting. No one ever counts them. :(

Is it possible that for the next video or so, you rank the Paper Mario bosses or something along that topic.

Unironically just dont kill the koopalings as soon as they come out the shell spin and the fight gets way better. Sure, its not efficient, but who cares it feels so much cooler and fun to actually let them do something instead of insta killing them. NSMBU has some great fights if you just... let iggy back on to the roof, or morton get a pokey up, or ludwig jump up. Should you have to do this on purpose? Obviously no, but its so much more fun and engaging if you do!

You made my day because you made me laugh so hard a few times. I usually never comment but you’re different. Subscribed and your almost to 200k😘

Hmm, i dont know much about fangames but now im kinda curious on what do they do for bosses... Anyways great vid

4:29 I get your point and I 100% agree. But don't tell me that 3D isn't the same. Your gonna tell me a slippy floor and "Oh but wait, there's 2 Now!" Is different. Come on man 😂

5:02 I now get this, its because the wings complement the blocks really well, actually making the boss fight way less cheasable then becoming intersting but removing the wings just removed that option.

Honestly the koopalings were always my favorite compared to bowser jr. not because their fights were particularly ground breaking but because they each were very unique in design and personality. It hugely disappoints me that rather than… put in effort to make more advance and unique bosses based on each koopaling and level they’d rather just cut them…

I've always thoughg of this, every koopaling needs a unique invincible state, think about it, lemmy trows some bouncy balls while he turns into a spiky bounce ball himself and if he damages you he also knocks you far, but also give him some time to attack like you said

I think a huge factor that matters with 3D Mario's boss fights is that said bosses are only vulnerable at a certain point in their attack cycle, forcing the player to survive the onslaught until the opportunity arises to hit the boss. Along with this, the 3D Bosses aren't afraid to throw surprisingly quick or challenging attacks at the player. If you compare a huge portion of the 2D Bosses to a good few Odyssey fights, you'll quickly notice the difference in pacing as Odyssey is quite a bit faster and more intense, and the bosses have at least 3 moves available to them at all times, meaning even when the fight drags on, it doesn't turn stale. Koopalings are lucky to have more going on beyond spinning around in their shell or shooting projectiles, nevermind Bowser Jr or Boom Boom who sometimes DON'T EVEN GET PROJECTILES, forcing them to just do the first attack of praying for contact damage, without the invincibility to offset this.

I also think it'd be cool if some 2D Mario bosses took the Galaxy approach of being designed around specific power-ups, like one that need the propeller hat or one in which the blue shell power makes things easier. Helps adds complexity to run, wait and jump on head

The bosses of a platforming game should not be just thematically fitting, but also gameplay fitting. Imagine if you're playing a turn-based RPG and the boss battle in each dungeon is a rhythm minigame, that's how most of the Super Mario bosses feel like. If a world introduces the gimmick of falling platforms and is used throughout the levels, then the boss should include an arena of falling platforms; that simple design choice is enough to make the bosses feel memorable and rewarding to beat.

11:20 you're making me unironically want rango in the next mario kart

I think the best way to solve the bad 2d bosses is to make them invincible until they do a certain attack that allows you to eather stun them to attack, reflect it back at them, ect (kinda like bowser jr's 3rd fight from nsmb wii)

i've always thought this too. mario boss fights have never really felt like boss fights when compared to other 2d platformers

The thing is, the 3D Mario games differ a lot in gameplay and their bosses take advantage of that to make the battles so good (mostly). But the 2D ones, beyond some new additions to the movements, feel pretty much the same. The games are distinctive (mostly) in several aspects but the gameplay hasn't changed much, and that's not a bad thing, but with the bosses you can notice the problem.

The problem with being able to basically stun lock the koopalings made me appreciate Iggy’s fights more cause he almost solves that problem, not a complete fix but he can sometimes be hard to hit. In Wii it’s really dependent on the Chain Chomp position but also it’s a unique take on their shell states so that’s a bonus. Nsmb2 is kinda similar but I found it a bit easier. Wii U had the possible chance of him booking it back into the pipe cause of how he constantly goes through the pipes on the sides in his shell state, he could possibly pop out when you’re not near him

I wonder how much of this issue is also tied to poor checkpointing? Most 2D Mario games only have 1 checkpoint per level, usually located around halfway through the level rather than specifically before any boss it might have. I wonder if the developers are afraid of having bosses that are particularly challenging or unexpected because the Koopalings/Junior have essentially become a band-aid fix to this poor checkpointing? Losing to a boss and having to redo half a level to get back often feels terrible and is only really expected in games where the iteration time is to some extent the point, like Dark Souls and its derivatives/imitators. Even then, FromSoft has moved away from boss runs in the name of having the bosses themselves be more unique and demanding. It seems like 3D Mario figured this out too, fairly early on, but for some reason official 2D Mario never quite has?

13k left for the ultimate video im so excited

how long did it take for you to beat lost levels?

They should just add herobrine, unique character and fun boss fight, what could go wrong.

I got some ideas for how the koopalings could've worked with the wonder gimmicks. W1: Larry (Shifting ground) Larry fights largely the same as in the New Super Mario Bros games, jumping and occasionally shooting magic from his wand. His 2nd phase shrinks the arena by removing the floor from the corners of the room. Lastly, Larry's 3rd phase would basically just be his Castle fight in Wii. W2: Wendy (Various ring attributes) Wendy has skates similar to Mario U, and still uses bouncing rings. However, in her 2nd phase, the fight changes a lot when the rings become icy, gaining the ability to freeze parts of the floor when they touch it, resulting in ice physics (Wendy is immune, for she has ice skates). The rings also become larger. Things only get crazier in her 3rd phase, as Wendy's rings transform into Condarts upon touching the ceiling, and charge down whenever Mario goes under them. W3: Roy (Movement methods) Roy starts off with a simple ground pound and magic attack, plus the pipe movement from Mario Wii, but things become intense after he takes damage. In phase 2, he can jump incredibly high, similar to a Hoppycat, and his head becomes spiked. The only way to damage him is after he does the Hoppycat jump while on the ceiling, after which Roy bumps his head on the floor, exposing his belly to be jumped on. Finally, phase 3 turns the walls of the arena into giant bill blasters that Roy himself can enter, catapulting him horizontally. However, he loses the hoppycat jump and armor. Periodically, bullet bills can spawn. I'll figure out the rest at a later date.

I love your ideas!

random idea but, if they ever kept the koopaling-per-world fight system, maybe they could redesign them to fit their worlds, like giving them desert gear like goggles and scarves if they get put in the sand world, or scuba/diver gear if they're in the water world

hey guys it's me

There is one particular Mario game that I think shows another way to let the Koopalings be in the game without making it feel repetitive, Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga. It uses original bosses pretty much through the entire game (aside from one which doesn’t matter), but then throws out the Koopalings as mid bosses as you trek through Bowser's castle. While that game is an RPG, this could still be used in a mainline Mario game as you make your way through the final level, leaving room for original bosses along the way. In order to make this less repetitive though, I’d say have 2 Koopalings fight at the same time meaning you have to work around them (aside from Ludwig since he is generally seen as a leader). I could see that working alongside your suggestion for a boss mechanic, as you could have each be faced one at a time in mid bosses, therefore people know what to expect from each boss whilst fighting them. Somewhat like Mario 3D Land, where you fight Boom Boom and Pom Pom as individual bosses before they start battling together near the endgame (just far less repetition in bosses).

About the cool bowser gif. Do you know where I can find it?

My favorite 2d mario games when it comes to bosses its definitely Wii and DS, both of these have repeating mid-bosses and wii has some repeating castle bosses. I like how DS had very unique bosses for most castles and the bowser jr fights and the final boss in Wii are also great

I've not seen the video yet but love to remember the bosses of NSMB DS. The are the best and most memorable to me.

12:44 this is exactly that I thought, when I played NSBM first time. I was like "nice Koopalings return after all these years and even in 3D." And then... Larry jumped over to the next castle and I was like "wait, the are the only Bosses and I ahve to fight them two times each?" Edit: to improve the bosses? Please ! remove the shell-phase! It is overdone. I can't take it anymore, jumping 5-10 seconds over and over again over a spikey shell. I got it, we can do that, it is a very basic dodge, and it is repeated over the NEW Series over and over again, even in Mario Maker it appears.