The internet is a crazy place. Where else can a high school drop out hair dresser, now a stay at home mom of 5 listen to a intellectual conversation like this, the best of humanity while at the same time it’s ruining us, social media poisoning our kids. Dividing us. Thank you for sharing this. God help us all. 🙏

A conversation I recommend to everyone. We are the luckiest generation we are getting this kind of quality conversations for free at the palms of our hands.

Dr. McGilchrist will be remembered as the most important intellectual of our era, in my belief. I've not heard anyone else speak with such diagnostic clarity as to the symptoms and issues which plague our time. The insights he sets forth are paradigm-altering. He deserves a bigger platform.

I am half way through reading The Master and his Emissary. I read it with a sense of huge relief. Feels like Dr.McGilchrist has articulated many things I was thinking but couldn't find the words for. Brilliant and important work.

This is the type of discussion we should see among politicians running for office.

when people talk about systems instead of enemies , you know you are on the right channel

This is a conversation I’ve been waiting three years for. Three of the most forward-thinking, influential, thought leaders of our time.

Please, please, you must continue this dialogue. The world needs it. Thank you.

This is one of the finest conversations I've seen on this platform. Thank you.

Thank you I feel like the mom with 5 kids - where can an 81 year old granny who has studied these things for years find them all consolidated like this. This is how technology should be used to help us evolve!

I wish this kind of conversation and intellectual thinkers were more common.

An unstructured conversation between great minds is a profound way to explore things. Although the three minds tend to move their comfort zones, I found it fascinating. I'm worried that this level of conversation is only for a (very) limited group of people, whereas this matters for all. I've learned a lot and will apply insights to my daily life. Thank you guys!

Very good conversation. I’m glad these questions are being tackled. A few comments: 1- the problems Daniel posits are second order ones that are mostly being assessed through a utilitarian mind-set. The first order problems are that created by a techno-globalist managerial system which is disempowering people while incentivising the secondary order problems - some in reality but also some which are convenient falsies. 2- the problems we face are arguably a necessary part of our social evolution. We have had to learn through the inevitable mistakes and experiences in order to ascend. 3- I’m glad it was eventually clarified that averting the problems we face will not be through educating the elite. It has to happen at a grass roots level. Only then will we demand a different governance - not the other way around.

This is a deeply meaningful dialogue between three wise men. Avatar 2 has approximately the same running time (192 minutes ) as this talk and after watching that film my mind was numb and dumb. This video, however, has had the opposite affect and now my mind is enlightened. Thank you for sharing. Peace.

Magnificent, i was so delighted how thoroughly you all addressed perhaps the most primary and problematic aspects of the current human condition: Power and Love....or power without love....

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🌐 The discussion revolves around the Psychological Drivers of the Metacrisis and potential responses. 01:18 🌍 The metacrisis is characterized by global risks and challenges, unprecedented in history, arising from technological advancements. 02:40 🚀 Powerful technologies like nuclear weapons, AI, synthetic biology, and global supply chains contribute to the metacrisis. 04:32 🔄 The polycrisis perspective emphasizes the interconnectedness of various issues, cautioning that solutions to one problem may exacerbate others. 05:30 🌐 The metacrisis is rooted in the unique ability of humans, driven by technology shaped by the human mind, to impact the environment on a global scale. 09:35 🔍 McGilchrist explores the left hemisphere's focus on abstraction and categorization vs. the right hemisphere's holistic, context-aware perception. 20:28 🌐 Schmachtenberger raises the question of why the emissary (left hemisphere) became dominant in global civilization relative to the master (right hemisphere). 24:58 💀 The prevalence of zombies in culture symbolizes the meaning crisis, representing individuals living meaningless lives, disconnected and decayed. 27:39 🧘 Positive responses to the meaning crisis include the mindfulness revolution, interest in ancient wisdom philosophies, and exploration of Asiatic philosophies that integrate knowledge and wisdom. 28:59 🎮 Video games provide narrative, normative, nomological, and flow structures, offering insights into what's missing in real-world meaning. 31:12 🧠 General intelligence reflects the ability to solve problems by having or becoming something, addressing two meta-problems: anticipation of the world and dealing with the explosion of information possibilities. 40:25 🔄 The discussion shifts to the etiology of ubiquitous meaninglessness, exploring the relationship between psychological phenomena and objective environmental challenges like nuclear risk, AI, and economic issues. 43:31 🎯 The recovery of Neoplatonism, emphasizing polarity over poles, using the Greek word "tonos" for tension. 44:00 🧘‍♂ Anxiety and depression are not the same; anxiety is not lateralized, while depression can be linked to unbalanced activity in specific brain regions. 52:11 🚀 Aspiration and rationality are intertwined; aspirational projects involve binding oneself to a future self through imagination. 56:26 🌐 Subjective-objective divide challenged; everything comes into being as a relation, emphasizing encounter, experience, love, and valuing. 01:00:58 🌈 Hierarchy of values from utility to the sacred; left hemisphere dominance tends to focus on utility, missing higher-level values. 01:15:42 🔀 Sociopathic defection, driven by short-term power goals, undermines the pursuit of collective well-being and meaningful life. Overcoming this requires fostering a sense of belonging to a just world and emphasizing values beyond immediate gain. 01:30:56 🔄 Religions, while embodying the sacred, often get corrupted by power-seeking individuals, leading to a mixed impact on civilization. 01:32:43 🔄 Despite challenges, there's hope in preserving cultural cognitive grammar and focusing on what remains across power shifts. 01:40:02 🔄 There's an ethical obligation for those valuing the sacred and wisdom to engage with power responsibly, preventing its misuse. 01:44:39 🤔 Plato's seduction involves engaging the left hemisphere in arguments and discussions, using that process to draw attention to non-propositional elements and the importance of character development. 01:45:32 💬 Dialogical practices, resembling Platonic anamnesis, can lead to a sense of intimacy and connection with the collective "we" or the logos, prompting individuals to undergo a Platonic pivot. 01:46:54 🤖 Logic's compulsory nature contrasts with the inability to compel wisdom and love, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability in pursuing these qualities. 02:00:38 🔄 The mixed bag nature of humanity, capable of both beautiful and horrific actions, is explored, with a focus on the vulnerability of our relationship to the sacred and the need for a fundamentally different approach to ethics and choice. 02:02:51 ⚖ Increased coordination within in-groups, coupled with competition with out-groups, creates a challenging game theory, leading to potential conflicts in the use of technological power. 02:06:54 🔄 Exaptive solutions are necessary, repurposing past elements like religion, to address the unprecedented challenges posed by evolving technology and its potential misuse. 02:11:35 🤝 Wisdom at the scale needed to prevent self-destruction requires rethinking the relationship between power, wisdom, and technology on a global scale. 02:15:13 🔄 Exapting elements from the past, such as Neoplatonism and Zen, could provide a deep grammar for large-scale reconceptions of fundamental human understanding. 02:28:37 🌌 Whiteheadian idea of creation: McGilchrist discusses a Whiteheadian idea where the divine Ground of Being is not passive but interacts with creation, suggesting that humans play a role in the ongoing evolution and fulfillment of the divine. 02:30:50 ⚖ McGilchrist’s Wager: McGilchrist proposes a concept similar to Pascal's Wager, suggesting that humans may play a role in the development and evolution of the divine, presenting an ennobling obligation to contribute positively to the world. 02:33:09 🌱 Optimistic view of the cosmos: Despite skepticism, McGilchrist expresses an optimistic view of the cosmos, indicating that humans, through their relationships and actions, can bring hope and dignity to the human condition. 02:34:21 🌐 Global synthesis of wisdom: John Vervaeke proposes a global synthesis of wisdom, drawing from Neoplatonism, Kabbalah, Sufism, and Eastern philosophies, aiming for a pluralistic approach that enriches various religious and philosophical traditions. 02:43:11 🧠 Hemispheric dominance and scaling: The discussion explores the connection between hemispheric dominance, scaling, and the challenges of addressing global issues without losing uniqueness and local instantiation. 02:44:54 🌐 Panentheism and reverence: McGilchrist expresses his panentheistic views, emphasizing the importance of seeing God in everything (panentheism) rather than God being everything (pantheism). This perspective fosters reverence and could potentially reduce conflicts between religious groups. 02:53:23 🌐 Emergence of a new religion: The discussion explores the idea of a "new religion" emerging, not necessarily to replace existing religions but to reify and reinterpret them in ways that address contemporary challenges such as ecological overshoot, planetary boundaries, and technological advancements. 02:58:03 🤔 Reification of religions and philosophical traditions: The conversation touches on the reification of existing religions and the development of new philosophical traditions. It explores how these meta-dynamics can contribute to wisdom, ecological stewardship, and aligning human values with societal structures. 03:00:37 🏛 Institutions and wisdom development: Addressing the practical aspect, the discussion emphasizes the need to create ecologies of practices within communities before reforming education. This involves changing the lived normativity of cultures to avoid education reforms being co-opted by existing systems. 03:05:30 🌐 Education should encompass history, literature, philosophy, music, and culture, fostering creative, empathic understanding. The emphasis on IT and procedural learning should be balanced with a broader, more holistic approach. 03:08:45 🤝 Synoptic integration: Advocating for individuals overseeing the whole picture, bridging gaps between disciplines, and recognizing the value of synoptic integrators alongside specialists in areas like cognitive science. 03:15:08 🌍 Orientation and agency: Encouraging a sense of hope, duty, and action. Emphasizing the duty to further larger causes and contribute in ways that align with personal strengths, advocating against despair. 03:16:57 💖 Love of wisdom and being: Highlighting the real possibilities of falling in love with being, emphasizing the reciprocal opening of possibilities over the reciprocal narrowing associated with addiction. Plato's concept of anagoge is referenced. 03:17:53 🌌 Epistemic humility: Stressing the importance of holding mystery and the unknowable at the center, promoting an epistemic humility that comes from being open to both the overwhelming beauty and suffering present in reality. 03:19:12 🌟 Sacred obligation: Connecting the sense of sacred obligation to protecting reality with clear seeing, being moved by the beauty of reality, and fostering a protective impulse towards the sacredness and meaningfulness of existence.

Hard times are coming, when we’ll be wanting the voices of writers(/thinkers) who can see alternatives to how we live now, can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies to other ways of being, and even imagine real grounds for hope. We’ll need writers(/thinkers) who can remember freedom - poets, visionaries - realists of a larger reality. - Ursula K. Le Guin

R. Steiner said 'it's not what you teach, it's who you are'. I have experienced teaching with no outside interference and it was wonderful. I was lucky enough as a child in London to have teachers who I revered. My children and grandchildren seem to be less lucky.

* Daniel Schmachtenberger has risen like the sun in terms of being an intellectual powerhouse and holding his ground and even offering key insights among these two. Good on him. He doesn't play any political games, he doesn't take sides, he isn't grifting for any ulterior motives; he's everything Jordan Peterson should have been.

52:57 - Flatulence that can no longer be held back, ricochets off the leather chair... "Ok, you want to challenge that" was a pivotal moment of this discussion.

Do this again soon. I’m huge fan of Vervaeke and Schmactenberger’s work. This was a great introduction to McGilchrist. These are deep conversations the world needs more of.

"The left hemisphere closes down to a certainty; the right hemisphere opens up to a possibility." -Sir Iain McGilchrist.

This is an extraordinarily accurate conversation pointing to the need for a spiritual re-awakening of what is called the perrenial wisdom. As a 4th Way seeker, i can affirm many correlates from personal experience regarding many of the "indications" presented and therefore can implore anyone who resonates with this conversation to seek out a true spirutual community. There are many and yet most operate under the radar. Gurdjieff groups connected with rhe students of the spiritual master can be found throughout the world. When i listen to Iain and John in particular i feel like im listening to an experienced 4th Way aspirant. Very encouraging to me.

I tuned into this conversation a few different times now. There are many layers that are worth listening to.

❤Thanks for this incredible dialogue. I will return to this often.

I can't believe Terence McKenna is sat in the middle😅

Evolved minds. These guys before any dressed up guru. Incredible 👏🏻

This is so good, I need ten more hours and a hundred more after! thank you for this!

The excitement was palpable. The discovery of another mind that can facilitate each other’s expansion and the joy of diligently earned discovery.

Wonderful conversation wish more people would listen

I love UKposts. My mum always think I’m crazy for paying UKposts premium… but I love watching these videos… no ads…. Can download… learn, reflect, ponder and understand…. UKposts is the best

What a thought-provoking discussion. I am currently immersed in reading Ian's first book, and I must say I'm looking forward to engaging with the works of John Vervaeke and Daniel Schmachtenberger to gain a more rounded perspective of how these three gentlemen view the world. It seems the issue at hand revolves around imbuing logos or teaching human beings how to exist in the world in a way that makes us more present and in touch with our current situations, as opposed to the delusions we construct to protect ourselves. If we could see the forest for the trees, a community would not allow a sociopath or a psychopath to become powerful for the same reason a swarm values the whole as more important than the individual. Thank you for sharing

Please do continue the conversation, it is very stimulating and can only bring the best in people. Deep Thanks to you 3!

Such a brilliant discussion. Thank you so much for airing this! Yes, don’t despair….

1/28/24… please continue this conversation in this work. I am just a lone soul, a small incentive of will, yet I fully support this undertaking passionately. Thank you.

Wisdom through relationship with the sacred. A way forwards. Another conversation please 😊

Thank you all so much for this enriching and insightful conversation. It crystallises so much that is helpful on an ongoing basis. I am a practising Buddhist so much of what you all said chimed with the direction I'm oriented to. I'm also someone who sees potential in the world and what blocks it. The left/right hemisphere struggle is indeed writ large in certain societal issues. For example, I would say that the current conflict in the NHS is Britain is between the empathic, vocational medically trained staff and the bureaucratic, controlling , managerial structures which are the ones supported by the government. Most people either working in or treated by the NHS deeply know and understand what has true value but the administrators somehow think they are the "grown-ups". It has also something to do with how we collectively understand what money is. Money is styled as being "scarce" when in fact it is only artificially (and ideologically) so. It is the world's resources and the ecosphere that have limits and money needs to be oriented in a way that increase harmonious relationality rather than being seen as "scarce". It needs to be seen not as "stuff" eg gold coins, or in "coffers" but as an enabling flow.

These men are at the pinnacle of reasonable consideration of these issues, and have come together with their vastness and depth of knowledge for us.

Wonderful conversation. Please continue.

Hey, that was one of the best conversations I have ever seen on UKposts! Looking forward to the next episode!

Please, definitely more conversations! This was profound.

I don't want to sound pretentious, but, it feels SO good to be able to indulge in substantive and real intellectual conversation. This stands out so much! Beyond needed. TYVM!!!

Half way through, but probably the best discussion I’ve ever heard.

Looking forward to this conversation! Thanks

I'm listening gentlemen. I feel nourished by these conversations and wish to be ble to share in the space with you. I cannot express accurately my deep pull and push to living in a state which best embodies all of which you have spoken about and referred to. I am currently looking for land for me and my family and would invite you all immediately to host any events to help to start to practice these things and explore how it may unfold. All my sincerest and most joyful love xxxx thank you all X

Im following this for my own benefit, but if you get lost and are still interested here is my take. First 50 minutes is position stating. I’m 48 minutes in. McG. seems agitated. He’s perspiring where the other two aren’t, the room cannot be that hot. Something seems a bit off, I don’t Vervaekes hand movements help to build rapport. Between 53 and 56 minutes there is a rather Pythonesque exchange, maybe ego is a driver of the metacrisis. At 56 minutes Daniel is invited back in, there is an unsubtle edit which suggests something went on in the room, perhaps a reminder to the academics about the purpose of the discussion, this is a very good intervention by Daniel. Around 1 hour McG. talks about three relationships that have been trashed: with each other in a community, with nature and with the sacred, these, in his words, bring meaning. These are more related to the right hemisphere. This is a good framework imho. Vervaeke has not been invited to speak for 20 minutes. 56 mins to 1hr 16 mins, is it because McG. Doesn’t play well with others? At 1 16 Daniel boils things down to those with influence in the world are power seeking (in the left hemisphere grasping way) and therefore not wise, he asks Vervaeke to talk about how we can bind the left hemisphere, he also talks about closing the evolutionary niche that rewards sociopathic narcissists in the first place. I don’t think we bing power with wisdom as the caption at this point says. I thing we rebalance left and right hemisphere and wisdom emerges. At 1 20 Vervaeke offers an example of connection as meaning making ‘having a kid’ regardless of all the negative consequences of health and other forms of well being. Daniel jumps on this and related having a child to sacrifice which is connected to ‘sacred’ strengthening the connection between McGs framework and Vervaekes statement…excellent facilitation. Going to stop here May pick up in another comment

Please continue this dialogue!

I've been noshing on this statement lately by W. Christopher Epler from what he titled The Zoom of Abandon (a rhapsody of personality transcending perception)- "When all boundaries become insides of outsides and outsides of insides, then all "relata" disappear into relationship." What's your interpretation?

Thank you all. Stay blessed

My three most favourite people in the world I go back to very often and quote. We need a session two focusing on practical strategies

Conversations like these are the closest thing I have to a cure for my own loneliness. However, one thing that surprises me is that you don't dive to deep into the poor parenting issue seeing as you mentioned it as playing a role in the development of psychopathic leadership.

This is an absolute goldmine of help with targeted thinking by applying the study of these learned folks to one's own work. I've already found so many parallels I can use to help shape my work - super grateful! Also serving as confirmation I'm on the right track with my ideas.

thank you...this dialogue gives me hope for humanity...

Please, part 2!

Wonderful conversation about all that matters! Thank you :)

I heard every word you guys said and it was marvelous. I would love it if you could get together again and go deeper on some specifics.

I envision a peaceful transition in power dynamics (when I'm not enraged lol) I think the world is more than hungry for it. The curtain has been so thoroughly pulled back on the intentions of those in charge of their own doing. 1:17:46

Wow!!! I'm moved, blown away and inspired by this meeting of three incredible thinkers

This is a gift and I'm thankful for it . I'd hug ya but I'm just words on a screen right now.

Excellent discussion, interesting the whole way. I have been waiting for an intelligent conversation about exactly these topics.

This kind of information, how to think through the meaning of your life …. was NEVER thought in school and University. As a 50sothing year old man, I understand completely this talk because I have been exploring this since my literature undergrad. My opinion is that this is in purpose to level down our collective awareness

Many more people need to subscribe to his channel. He explains all of the craziness the control the cancel culture that is happening now at warp speed.

In awe with these thought-provoking subjects expressed in this conversation. Big admirer of Daniel, through which I now come to learn about Ian and John. Don’t mind me. I’m just liking commenting and subscribing to help spread this a bit 😊

This is like straight out of The School of Athens. It’s the most enlightening and beautiful conversation of our time. I love it.

Dr McGilchrist your work is so incredibly incisively important! It really makes sense of so much of what we're seeing in the world...

Interesting timing to hear the bell ring as the conversation dives deeper into religion as potential meta crisis solution.

thank you so much. This is deep, wise and profound beyond words. It took me to the numinous and gives me hope. More please!

Brilliant conversation, thank you!

‘You’ve given me a language that I may go back to the religion I was brought up in and re-home myself.’

Definitely worth a followon on practical implications.

I think they got there in the final minute.... Center the Mystery of existence: Gratitude and Humility, properly oriented, will drive a sacred obligation (which I dub service) that generates wholeness and explorative spirit

Thank you. It would be helpful if each of the speakers and their work were briefly introduced, perhaps with a link

I’m only half way through but so far the discussion is fairly seamless. Even where an extra stitch may have been needed, the fabric still flows beautifully. Thank you! And more please! 👏

Thank you to make these thoughts available here.

Thank you. Heartwarming, hopeful, inspiring. Highly recommended.

Wonderfully insightful, intelligent exchange on critically important subjects. As a visual artist I particularly enjoy the discussions touching on right hemisphere function and the importance of integrating the two hemispheres in the direction of mutual respect and cooperative interplay.

Wonderful treat and more to follow on...

Such a wonderfully deep, meaningful, knowledgeable, beautiful, rich, creative conversation full of warmth, empathy, goodness and wisdom. One of the best I have ever listened to. Thank you so much. Better than a talk.

Simply magnificent

I really hope you continue to do these trialogues, maybe monthly? Thank you!!

I am grateful to Daniel for keeping the focus on solutions. . . although there seems to be no VIABLE, IMPLEMENTABLE solutions to the metacrisis we currently face and that has been beautifully articulated by these lofty thinkers -

Master composer of conversation in your quality of questions towards answers that lead a discussion towards the direction of solutions.

wonderful! Thank You!

The essence of Reverence comes to mind..Excellent debate very engaging and stimulating...Thank you!

That's a concise first question posed. Punchy and to the point.

I would like my first donation to the Consilience Project to go towards end tables.

I'm able to connect when Iain McGilchrist talks but the other two fellas feel so heady/analytical to me; enjoying it all nonetheless.

Souvent dans ces conversations se trouve les meilleurs moments, les pensées des plus profondes, vers la fin. Ici les thèses, antithèses, synthèses dans ce podcast convergent à 3h. Les noeuds de l'histoire se dénouent

Please go deeper! Loved this! Wish I could be on set with you !

Does anyone have a link to the 2019 UK survey John mentions at 22:00?

I look forward to reading your book. I ordered it.

Jack Dorsey is way smarter than we though! In all seriousness, Daniel has got to be one of the best moderators out there. Brilliant, and sharp.

Thank you all three for doing your very best to give what you call the metacrises attention. Very good questions and exploration around this, also in my opinion, important topic in and about the (future) reality of humanity. A great time of mine spendt listening - hope you will continue the discussion when possible.

We’re in “The Fourth Turning” and conversations like this are just what we need to get through it.

Really great. Thank you all.

My second time listening. Thank you. We can only pray that people as thoughtful, intelligent and wise as you three are helping to guide AI.

Thank you for pointing out the odd use of the word reification Iain. Great talk, great minds! Also demonstrated some of the potential blindspots in Schmachtenberger's tendency to totalistic, organizational, top-down thinking.

this is no bullshit. some very deep ideas were touched upon. thx a lot for having this convo !!

👍👍 Great! Thanks for this.

In narrowing my focus: it gets really interesting in 1:56:00. Where they have established some things they agree on and move it toward a solution. And while it’s not a specific solution it’s a ground, foundation that’s set with some criteria that can be pushed forward in the practical way they only just began to explore by the end of the video. On the edge of my seat waiting for the next conversation! With the local idea people in various focuses in their life can share their ideas about how these ideas can be applied in education, nursing, etc (insert any institution where a movement forward can be achieved for all and on an individual level as well). Excited for the possibilities. But man is it hard to have restraint while looking to achieve this endeavor…