Me too lol I left it instead of saying something to the editor

Why would efficiency improve? Technically yes, heat pumps are more efficient with a higher delta T, but they also have to do more work. Even though the work is done more efficiently, it's still more. Air source is nearly always fighting delta T, warm air outside and you want cold air inside, or cold air outside and you want warm air inside. Ground is more often than not a lower delta T between what you want and the ground temp.

Yeah I agree efficiency would probably decrease. Ground source has substantially higher COP’s year round and doesn’t drop that much when it’s subzero and gets really cold. There was another commenter that posted about a system I wasn’t aware of that uses solar loops and ties into geothermal heat pump ground loops so your ground loop can melt snow off the panels, and also the heat from the panels can augment the ground loops. That seems like a very smart design. Older solar water / hydronic loops had a reputation of breaking down / leaking but hopefully the newer ones are more reliable.

@@TheHVACDopeShow Thanks to both of you. Interesting to understand a bit more about it all..

Short answer is yes there is I’ll have to look into it more but basically the way it would work is you would likely have hydronic thermal loops going to hydronic air handlers. Truth is I’m not familiar with that application but will definitely look into and get back to you. I’m not sure if the efficiency gain will be worth it since it’s predominantly for cooling purposes but can verify and get back to you. There’s some very high efficiency mini split systems on the market that push 25+ SEER even as air source heat pumps, so avoiding geothermal would save installation costs and complexity of service in the future. Most of the geothermal applications I’m familiar with are used because heat pumps at very cold temps (think Canada) just don’t do well for extended periods below -20F for example, but geothermal efficiency doesn’t drop hardly at all even at -30/40F or colder

Sounds like my house R20 walls R65 ceilings thermal brake. 3400sqft all electric. But I live in wisconsin. Mostly heating. My cooling is handled by the geothermal system. Chilled water fan coils. Look like mini split head units. Just have cold water running through them. Geothermal unit allows down to 36°f. Could actually freeze it. But won't let it go below 36f for pipes. They do remove a lot of humidity. But down south. You're probably going to need whole house dehumidifier. Even with mini splits. Plus Im sûre you alread know this. But with a house that tight. You're going to need an ERV. Air to air heat/humidity exchanger. I have panasonics cold climate ERV. Usually have to use just HRV (heat recovery ventilation) in northern climates. I self built my house almost totally by myself. Had a contractor put up the outside. And I did everything else myself. While driving a forklift 65-70hrs a week 12hr shifts to afford it.😂

Im not sure how that would pan out just because a lot of the refrigerants are specifically engineered to enter air handlers / coils at specific temp and pressure conditions so if that gets altered somehow the system or refrigerant might not function as intended. If you try something like that I’m curious to hear your thoughts!

@@TheHVACDopeShow With ambient temperatures in the summer of 117f and night time lows of 96f, our air conditioner gets a lot of work. The cistern water won't be cold, and the returned refrigerant will probably be warmer than the returned refrigerant if it was 80f out, so that should work.

Thanks! Glad you enjoy it. The Mitsubishi intelliheat is a good option for this. If the furnace is 20 years old that might be why they’re saying that but if it’s a newer system you should be able to find someone willing to just do the heat pump.

@@TheHVACDopeShow thank you for the reply… wasn’t expecting one. I will research this Mitsu model but I was leaning toward using my Ecobee thermostat and its dual fuel function to add a heat pump and A coil and the Ecobee will run the A coil until I reach a certain temp and then hand off to the furnace.

Right on I’ll have to look into these more that’s very unique and I like the snowmelt tied to PV that’s pretty smart!

www.geothermalsolutions.net/slinky-loop-geothermal-slinky-ground-water-loop.html You may have to copy and paste this link since UKposts doesn’t like links in comments sometimes but this article explains it well. Depending on your region it will vary. In Colorado I’ve heard of mostly vertical loops being drilled because the “slinky” style of horizontal loops can have capacity issues if not designed properly. I’m not a drilling contractor so I’m not as familiar with this aspect (we only recently started doing geothermal) but from what I’ve learned thus far the majority of geothermal problems come from poor loop design that result in finished capacity / freezing ground etc. They will probably be cheaper to install than drilling but you still have to excavate a 10’ deep 5-6’ wide trench in order to put in a horizontal loop like that.

If you do install one of those, make sure to pressurize it to test, then keep it pressurized during back fill and compaction. You don't want the pipe collapsing after it is buried.

Mine was installed on my 1 acre lot on one end 4 loops for 4 tons. Here in wisconsin 6'-7' down is sufficient. Mine were installed 8'-9. He charged me $5,000. Came back and flushed and filled system with ethanol and water. When I got it all hooked up. Been running 7+ years no problems no maintenance. I have checked the water temperature comming out of the loops. Is actually 2 degrees warmer now than when it started. So the loops are sized correctly. For my system. In wisconsin heating is way bigger than cooling. 3400sqft all electric house. Heated and cooled at all times to whatever temperature I want. 10,080 watt net metering solar. Zero bills

Yes it can, I don’t know when they’re coming to the US and can’t find a straight answer… hopefully this year but I’m not 100% sure

The hottest water a geothermal heat pump is going to make is 120f. Even at that temp the heat pump is not running efficiently. If you have a hydronic system using radiators that require 180f water temperatures. A heat pump is not going to work.

Infloor heating usually around 108f is what you want. I tried turning mine up to see what it would do in my in floor heat. I got it up to the 128°f that I had set it. Temperature taken from probe in boiler buddy. Without any problem. In a short period of time. I right away descided it was too high. And dropped it back down. Didn't try anything higher.

Solar. Anyway, I think he was meaning that you're too far out to run gas lines but you can run electrical lines much further, so you can still be on the electrical grid but not have access to gas

I live in town. I have 10,080 watts of solar. Grid tied net metering. Have had zero bills since solar started up. 7 + years now. Am currently buying more panels 30 390watt canadian solar. For $112 apiece. Brand new delivered. 71.5 kwh worth of 5 powerpro wall batteries $16,885 delivered. Am going to be able to just go off grid. 3400sqft of all electric house. Won't have to worry about load levelling. (Not running my 2stage compressor when I'm welding) If my utilitie company ever gets rid of net metering. They are trying all the time. Until they do I will be building up a much bigger credit. They have to pay me out. When I go off grid. Plus those prices are before the 30% tax credit. So yah if you are way off grid. You could have a mansion and not sacrifice on anything. Geothermal helps reduce the size of solar needed dramatically.

Also off grid (or still connected to grid but middle of nowhere out in the boonies with no gas lines) you’re choices for fuel are propane / oil which is expensive to heat with. A geo gives you plenty of capacity and cost savings vs. propane and oil normally makes it feasible financially

@@danmccoy6164 I am going to go solar soon. The crappy house I am in has 2x4s holding up the roof. I pay a guy who weighs 110 pounds to clean it off periodically, and it really shakes when he is up there. I think adding solar would kill it. I am going to get some shipping containers soon and add solar to the top. Also this house is a stepping stone and I don't want to invest too much money into it that others would not value when I move on. For the batteries I am going to get my own lifepo4 battery cells from alibaba. They currently cost about $70 each, and 1kwh each. mb30 is the new chemistry for 10,000 cycle long life. The eg4 powerpro are nice.

@@TheHVACDopeShow Often times in the country they use wood for heat in the winter with a boiler shed that can take whole logs in 4 foot segments. Burning that much wood is usually not allowed in cities. In the country on larger lots trees laying on the ground (that you did not cut down or pay to cut down) are free and plentiful.

We want to go as many places as possible at some point! I don’t have an answer for Indianapolis, current plan is expanding to a few markets in Texas through 2025, after that Midwest is definitely an option!

Checking if your ground is suitable for drilling with radar?

Air compressor?

Sorry didn't notice the phone changed AC to air. Refrigerant compressor. AC as in air conditioning compressor.

This is true

I mean a little dirty but not much… they’re not really cost effective imo in most situations.

That’s a great question, and honestly I’m not sure - I’ll have to look into it!

That’s what she said

@@TheHVACDopeShow hahaha who have you been speaking too 😂

And I lasted for 3 minutes 😂

You are correct. If you have natural available and don’t have access to off peak electricity it’s actually cheaper to heat your home with natural gas. With the advances made in air source heat pumps I think geothermal will eventually become obsolete. I’ve been installing geothermal systems for 30 years.

Don't think so air source heat pumps can go lower in temperature but work way harder. The colder they go. I installed my system completely myself. Other than the horizontal loops because I don't have an excavator. Loops cost me $5000 4 loops 4tons on my 1 acre lot on just one end of the lot. He came back and flushed it out and filled the system with ethanol and water. After I got it all hooked up. Including all the inslab and warmboard infloor heating chilled water fan coils. For $22,000. Way less than the 2 estimates I got for conventional heating and cooling. $28,000 and $34,000. I drive a forklift for à living. Took me awhile to instal because I had never done it before. But is surprisingly simple. Running 7 + years no maintenance.

@@danmccoy6164 "Don't think so air source heat pumps can go lower in temperature but work way harder....." == Is your cost of work $0.?

I had 3 different estimates done for geothermal. By supposedly geothermal experts. All of them had wildly different ideas for equipment. The first 2 were $45,900 $45,790. The 3rd had actually been installing geothermal for over 35 years. He had really simple ideas for equipment. I thought great I will actually be able to afford this. His estimate came back at.....$45,200. I asked the hvac guy at work to order the equipment of of the last guys estimate. He does the hvac for our 1,700,000sqft plant. He did at his cost. The estimate for my cost was just equipment. That includes warmboard subfloor upstairs and extra cost for having it installed and insulation and pex I installed myself in the slab downstairs. All the manifolds I made. The $5,000 for the loops. Everything. But my labor. All by myself. Like I said took me a long time because I drive a forklift for a living. If I actually did it for a living. I figured it would have taken me and another worker acouple of days. Maybe if we stretched it out. A week. So the installers were going to make $23,000. For Maybe a weeks worth of work. Conventional heating and cooling. Is way simpler and cheaper equipment costs. So yah add. Normal labor cost to my geothermal. And it would have been closer to the lowest conventional estimate I got.

The guy that had been doing it for over 35 years. Said the majority of the original units he first installed were still running.