A friend of mine went to a Scientology boarding school in the 1980s for about 1 year. In one class, she was told by the teacher that the aim of Scientology was to take over the world as quietly as possible. I was a kid at the time and I laughed but now it doesn't seem so funny

What a pleasure to listen to people who speak coherently and use correct grammar. They are few and far between these days

"Scientology is the outpouring of someone who has a psychological condition." - WOW. I believe that, 100%. I wonder how many charismatic cult leaders would fall into the same category.

I bought a house from Jon in about 1981. I havent seen him since but I can safely say that then he was one of the smartest, funniest and most palpably decent people I have ever met. A perfect illustration of quality of people drawn to the madness. I am so pleased that he has freed that fine intellect from the snares of a cult and used it for the public good. Though I do remeber on the day we were supposed to move in he hadnt quite struggled out of bed and we had to help him and his family pack. Its a tribute to his charm that we didnt mind a bit.

I was in high school in the early 80s and I remember getting a tutoring session from my Algebra 2 teacher. I don't remember what got us to that point in the conversation, but I made a wisecrack about Dyanetics while working a problem at the chalkboard. He proceeded to tell me that he actually went to college with L. Ron Hubbard and that he was a real crackpot even back then. He said Hubbard was trying to convince other students that they could walk through walls and other mystical stuff.

My ex is a malignant narcissist... spot on description, thank you!!! Sadly I took him to court, 5 mobiles full of threats, witness, lost 16 kilos in 3 weeks...and I lost. I was the 4th woman to take him to court, there has been another 4 or 5 since over 10 years...zero justice.

Great to meet others who are 'night owls'. Something I've had since childhood too and spent all my baby raising days feeling jetlagged and struggling. After my kids had grown up people have often mocked me saying how lazy I am for waking up so late, or sleeping all day till I firmly put them in their place when I ask them certain questions. 1/ How many hours do you sleep?... Reply; oh, I need at least 8 to 9 hours. Me; well I sleep only 6 on average. 2/ What do you do with your spare time? Sit twiddling thumbs while watching tv? No hobbies?... Reply; yes, I watch TV and I don't have any hobbies.... Me; Well, I cannot sit twiddling my thumbs watching TV I have to be doing something at the same time, like knitting, crochet, sewing, painting (I'm a pro artist) crafting etc. So who's the lazy one now? Long, long ago we used to be the Night Watchers who took care of the Clan while they slept. 😎

This lifetime of experience that Jon Atack has been able to use amazes me, answers questions and makes me question belief even more. Thank you. Each day there is so much to learn.

Brilliant guest. I've seen a few interviews with former scientologist but this is the best so far. Jon has great understanding and insight into the cult 'programming'

Thank you for speaking about what happened to mentally ill and disabled people, it's not talked about enough ❤️

"Scientology is the outpouring of somebody who has a psychiatric condition". So perfectly stated, Jon Atack. And scientology invites all to go down the rabbit hole and donate, donate, donate and fundraise, fundraise, fundraise. So the able become more able.

Excellent interview!!! I had never heard of Jon Attack but am so glad I do now. What a brilliant, personable & engaging man.

Thank you Jon Atack, what a sharp gentleman! 💜

I love Jon Atack. I found him quite recently, but I could listen to both of you talk all night long. You both have fantastic voices.

My husband, who was one of the most well-read, intuitively smart people I’ve ever had the blessing of encountering, told me essentially this: L. Ron Hubbard was somehow in the company of 3 or 4 very driven, smart men, maybe playing cards or something-but that essentially, Hubbard made a bet that he could, in short order, create a religion that would have a huge draw of members and thus make himself rich-then, he wrote Dianetics, created Scientology, and won the bet. I may not be repeating exactly what he said, but that was the gist. Have you ever heard this?

L Ron Hubbard went to the cupboard to fetch his meds. But when he got there the cupboard was bare and Ron decided to write a book instead

I was diagnosed with delayed sleep phase syndrome from sleep studies. I have definitely had this from childhood and was labelled and lazy when I struggled to get up early. I always feel more awake and cognitively alert later in the day.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Atack. This is the first time I've heard him talk explicitly about emotions as the entry point (my words) for being hooked. Glad to hear his advancement --.he's almost there. Being hooked by scammers has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with emotions -- ways we are NOT taught how to connect with and understand our emotions that scammers of any type use against us.

Leave it to New Jersey to be the place Scientology got started. But at least we had the guts to take it to court! I definitely can see where he’s coming from about being subjective as opposed to objective. This was a really good one again, Andrew. You keep hitting them out of the park.⚾️🙋🏻‍♀️

Thank you so much for sharing the concept of eveningness. I too have experienced this all my life (I’m 61) along with the subtle or not so subtle almost moralistic injunctions against being a night owl. The period 10 pm to 3 or 4 am is like heaven to me. The rest of the world is asleep! The frenzy of daily materialistic life has died down; the air is clear and still; and you know you’re not going to be disturbed. That’s the time that I can dive deeply into my mental/spiritual work without feeling drained. it’s so good to know that there’s an acceptable diagnosis that goes along with us now! Thank you from Aus 🇦🇺 Love you guys! 🥰

Super deep conversation. This is part the best of what the internet has to offer! 👏🏽

Love the way you interview. You delve pretty deep but manage to stay fairly neutral and always respectful. You don't mock people and it seems like you're always genuinely interested

I got in because they had a billboard outside the org stating ´´Think for Yourself´´ which I loved as I was always anti establishment. I wanted to help the planet as an empath... six years later I had lost my soul and my sanity. I saw them turn beautiful people into psychopaths in the end. It was horrific. The warning signs were there but the love bombing overroad that particularly as I had had a very unstable and abusive childhood. Excellent interview thank you both.

I like listening to Jon Atack. He has such a library of knowledge - mostly from his extesnsive personal research but also his experience while he was a Scientologist. And he is a good speaker - clear and logical. I hope you can have him back again.

"Eveningness." I like it. It sounds so much better than just calling myself an insomniac. I was that way since early childhood, in the 60's. And you're right about the stigma. People just assume that we're lazy. That has always been my natural pattern, but then to make it worse; in the 80's, i was newly divorced with two preschoolers. I lived in a rough neighborhood. Peeping toms, burglars, (one time the dog started barking @3:00 a.m.. The next day i found my kids' bedroom window partially pried off, and a crowbar on the ground), so it didn't feel safe to go to sleep until it got light out. I felt as if i had to "stand guard" all night. Then i would get up, take the kids to daycare, then crash.

I could listen to this guy all day !! He’s so intelligent!! He should be a college professor!! 👍

I'm a total night owl and it does bug me that people think I'm lazy because of it, even though it sometimes does interfere with what I need or want to do with other people. Thanks for another really great video. Jon Atack is such an interesting intelligent, well spoken man, I love hearing the two of you talk! It's like getting to eavesdrop on two well spoken, smart guys talking to each other with respect, while they talk about about subjects I'm very interested in! Thank you!

I grew up in Clearwater, Florida. In High School we used to buy cartons of eggs then drive by the church in Downtown Clearwater and Chuck the eggs out the window @ the Scientologists walking around. Because they walk everywhere 😊 We felt we were truly doing the lord's work. I pray 🙏 teenagers are still committing drive-by eggings. I encourage it. Just don't get caught! In my day, there were no Cell phones.

My parents were on one of the ships (sea or members) and Dad said one of the punishments was keehauling. Rope tied around the feet and not only pushed into the water, but actually swung under the boat.

I don't get the reference to satanism, could he elaborate what he meant?

Great interview! Jon is a wealth of knowledge and lived experience. I follow his channel and he has a lot of great videos and interviews that dive into "cult think" and how people get involved as well as other subjects around coercive control. Thanks Jon and Andrew!

What an absolute treat listening to the actual historical past of the cult with the interesting anecdotes. Should be an inspiration to all night owls ! Fascinating and informative

Tom Atack appears to be shy. But what a fierce and articulate intellect!! I learned a lot from this interview. Thank you both.

Stimulating and fun interview. Great chemistry with the two of you. Thanks, Andrew and Jon.

I have had this exact sleep gene and slumber time my whole life, which made me a highly tired child but I was never able to break it, every job I have had follows my natural sleep schedule thank goodness. I got it from my dad, who has been on 4 to noon his entire life as well. So cool that there are others 🙌

Thank you for trying to educate people from these kinds of cults.

Yesterday, I found your podcast through your interview on Profiling Evil. Loving your various topics and what an insightful conversation with Jon Atack! I am a follower of Jesus(not considering myself religious) but have experienced many of same tactics of attacks when asking the hard questions to people in churches with walls. In any kind of group there can be the same unhealthy elements of emotional following, rejection or attacks when you disagree with the group. Confirmation bias is alive and thriving everywhere and most of us don't recognize when it is occurring.

I’ve always called it vampirism myself, but I love your hours Jon! Been living themselves as often as possible, and always now that I’m retired!

Such a well spoken knowledgeable person. Thanks Andrew & good job interviewing him. Pamela from Texas

I’m the same with the late rising. My mom would ALWAYS demand that I “need to be on a schedule and wake up by 6am” when in reality I AM on a schedule just not on HER schedule. She’d demand this even when I was an adult who worked evenings lol

I'm so glad I found your channel.....so many fascinating episodes to watch, can't wait to start! I love your style, letting your guest actually talk and explore an idea.... So many interviews are really just the intervewer taking centre stage and not allowing their guests to speak, but you don't do that. I've just subscribed and wish I'd found your channel earlier!

at 11:55, Atack counts Modi amongst the pathetic, little, tyrannical dictators along with L Ron Hubbard and that itself is worth the life time price of my internet subscription. Thank you Jon Atack, we love you.

Much respect to Andrew Gold. Thank you for your amazing education. I could listen to you for hours.

Fair play to you Jon Atack for your honesty, humility and kindness for spreading the truth regarding this (one of many) radicalising extremist religions. I actually called a number on a leaflet from the Jehovah’s Witnesses posted through my letterbox instead of popping it straight in to recycle. The 75+ yr man was a lovely person who grew his own organic vegetables, cared deeply for preservation of plants, trees, local wildlife, bee’s demise and the impact there of. So I asked him why women are never treated equally nor given positions in decision making let alone even allowed a voice, always only men at the top ( I think there are just seven men who control the whole show?). Then also asked why, if I as a female was made in their God’s image how is it God is always depicted as a male? He had no answers to these questions and said he’d have to get back to me. A few weeks hence I received a letter in the post which just quoted/promoted preaching verses from their version of their ‘Bible’ with no reference to my questions and no phone call from that lovely man I rang. Talk about avoidance!! During my initial and only call to this dear older J.W guy, I asked why @ such a late stage in his life he had ‘converted’ he (reading between the lines) hinted he was lonely, loved the community feel + being a part of folk who cared. Mmmm….. 🤔 cults seizing vulnerable empathetic folk with a generous + gentle nature for the greater “bad” ? Plus him having no family are they targeting his will + property when he dies? Sure have targeted his ‘will’ to hold on to an enquiring mind? ❤🇬🇧

Super interesting interview!!! Thank you x Transparency and flow is the answer, no one person or regime has it. Obedience has been our biggest murderer, not terrorism!!!

This: "They recruit emphats, and then weaponise them". So true.

John mentioned Scott Morrison-his first action as Australian PM was grant his Church $250,000

I love how Jon talks and animates. His facial expressions and his speech. Fascinating to see.

I have a circadian rhythm that is off with the rest of the world. It’s really frustrating. Was perfect for when I was in college, playing in a band and able to schedule my classes to not start before 11:00am! My current employer allows me to start at 9:00am, and that’s still a struggle.

This such a great interview, such insight and honesty.

You simply cannot reason with an unreasonable person. It’s literally impossible.

Every time I hear about Scientology and the push to spend more money reminds me of when I did Landmark Forum. They harass you so much to bring people on and sign up for more course. The courses aren’t as $$$$ as Scientology but still they are on average $550-900 a pop. I found out later that there are definite links between the two. I did 5 courses of the Landmark Forum, kept being told I wasn’t coachable bc I didn’t sign up for more courses or bring people along. Plus they want people to work & crew for free at the centre. I got really worn out. After 4 years of trying my best, I was done!! They are also definitely cult-like.

Late to the party but this was a very interesting, well put together discussion. Thank you both.

What a fanfreakintastic discussion!! I love the discourse towards the end. I hope that these topics are more easily discussed in our culture moving forward… comedians are having to be brave for all of us by breaching the subjects and breaking the silence!

Hello, new subscriber! My husband & I r now retired & both "night owls" & wake up around noon also. For years 6 a.m. the alarm went off & our busy days started; happy to say those days rr far & few between now a days! Thanks for sharing, interesting & informative guest. 😊

TC does absolutely nothing for himself. Assistants, chefs, valets, security, bodyguards etc. etc. they do literally everything. They’ve built buildings for him, installed security systems you name it. I’m not sure he even wipes his own ass.

I really wish Jon Atack would stop with this misunderstanding of epigenetics Genes don't mutate epigenetically, epigenetics only changes the expression of genes. Epigenetics cannot express a trait in a way that isn't coded for in the gene, it is basically selecting from pre-evolved ways of expressing genes. Dawkins selfish gene model is not contradicted at all by epigenetics. Both Shelton and Atack trash mainstream evolutionary theory without seeming to have a proper understanding of it.

Oh great job on all of the information you bring forth! Tyty

Am so annoyed with Scientology's irritating names of entities. Poor writing as far as I am concerned,

He is absolutely enthralling and lovely to listen to.

Came over from A Psych for Sore Minds

Love this guy he seems so credible i believe every word keep exposing this cult

I think, there are links between Mrs. Blavatsky & Oscar Wilde: 1.O.W. 2- nd son Vyvyan 2-nd wife, was Thelma Besant ,great-grandniece of Anie Besant 2.Constance Wilde, she was a member of Madame Blavatsky's Inner Group & a "dear friend" to Annie Besant. 3. George Bernard Shaw

Late riser here, too. And yes, I need fewer hours of sleep when I go with my own sleep pattern :) But yes, there is that stigma and I've spent half of my life trying to hide it or to fix it (and sometimes I will say "I do not materialize in the morning. I just don't exist at that time of the day" )

I realize I've come a year late to this interview but what a brilliant interview! I found the roll of conversation between you and Jon very easy to listen to. For the record (or not) I am a night owl too. I find I have my most interesting thoughts and am most productive between the hours of 11: p.m. and 3:00 a.m. Although I love to be awake during these hours it can work against me sometimes. I am a teacher and trying to cover a yawn can be difficult at times. My students miss NOTHING lol! I wake naturally around 6:00 each morning so I guess this makes me an early bird too 😳😵‍💫😴 Come to think of it, I think I need to find a way to get more sleep. Regardless...(I do tend to waffle on sometimes lol)!, I will always be a night owl. The easiness of what your interview with Jon seemed, made me want to listen to more. I wanted it to continue for a bit longer. Very fascinating and educational. I'm looking forward to catching up with your content. Blessings.

I love the way Jon discuss things, very intelligent, knowledgable, and interesting to listen to. A fantastic guest, very happy he has left and living a happy life now.

Another excellent interview as always

Jon Atack is brillliant. I had never heard of him before.

JK Rowling is 100% right. Biology is undeniable.

Stumbled across this discussion today , very interesting , great conversation ! 👌

Hi Andrew ♥ What a great interview. I've reciently subscribed to your channel and I'm catching up on all your interviews. I really love your channel. Thank you Andrew ♥ for all your hard work. Brilliant xxx 💝

Truth about Tom Cruise? You only mentioned him for around 10 seconds. False advertising!

Just finding these videos and loving them! And my family are night owls as well!!

Just wondering, how can TC be so high in Scientology and be dyslectic? That's a disability.

great interview and thank you to Jon Atack for making it so easy to understand this subject...

I used to say I live on vampire hours- go to sleep between 4 or 5 sleep until noon, was always was my best. Finally found a Doctor who not only believes me but wants to work with me. Apparently I have a skewed Circadian rhythm, but whose to say my rhythm is wrong.

Wow! Me, too! I'm up late and sleep late. I HATED my alarm. I always said that the first thing I’d do when I retired was to take a hammer to my alarm! As for dyslexia, I can understand why Tom felt so inferior. In those days they had nothing that would help kids in normal schools to overcome it. As a teacher I had a child with severe dyslexia. I spoke to his parents about it. The only option I could say to them was to have him watch a lot of PBS. Nova, Frontline, science programs of any kind, etc. He liked to talk about science. When we talked about science in class he understood everything I was saying. He just couldn't read it in a book. Luckily, I didn't use the book much. I used hands on whenever I could. I’ve always wondered how he turned out. Then my cousin's son was diagnosed with dyslexia. She was like a pitbull. She made sure that he got every help that was available to him. and what the school did not provide for him she provided for him. He’s doing great as an adult. But, with Tom, unfortunately, his dyslexia turned into an inferiority complex. Scientology and acting gave him a superiority complex. He chose superiority, for which you can’t really blame him. The problem is he’s now an egotistical jerk, thinking he knows everything about everything.

Night owl here too. I stay awake from 1:00pm to 5:00am the next morning and then sleep from 5:00am to 1:00pm. I have never been an early morning riser then work all day until 5:00pm or 6:00pm. My energy is completely off during those daytime hours. I literally struggle to keep my eyes open and struggle to even concentrate. It’s nice to know that there are many others who also have my same sleep pattern.

My typical sleep pattern is from 4am to Noon, and the pattern started due to Spinal Stenosis and Sciatica. I'm now 71 and this started over ten years ago. Being self-employed and single makes this schedule easier, and I've decided to just live with it.

Im a Christian and you can get the Bible for free it doesnt cost millions. I would love to have been at the pearly gate when hubbard showed up and God had to have a discussion with him about who was in charge

Just as you say, critical thinking is often subjective, though the premise of it, is that it is completely neutral. Jehovah Witnesses believe they have been taught to 'think critically' - but when you look at the 'facts' they present, they dissolve into nonsense. In fact they just repeat what they are told.

I love your gentle but effective interview style. Will def check out more of your videos!

Just found your channel and I have so enjoyed binge watching videos!🌠

Excellent program. Recently started watching you and I am so impressed. Starting to go through your whole catalog.

Thank you both very much - your work is so important. Much power to you.

Finally catching up on some of these past videos (it's always nice to find a channel that has plenty of content for you to catch up on!) - this was yet another superb interview. There aren't many good interviewers anymore - they always want to interrupt and stick their oar in (I miss the days of Wogan and Parkinson, who knew how to steer a conversation without trampling over their guest) - but Mr Gold is certainly one of them, questioning, reacting, interjecting and conversing, but never talking over, always giving the guest the chance to speak (and isn't that exactly why we invite them on in the first place?!). I have heard of Mr Atack, but this is the first time I have seen him interviewed, and a realisation came over me - it is fascinating to me that every one of these ex-Scientologists is a compelling and entertaining speaker! Don't get me wrong, I'm not endorsing Scientology AT ALL, but ex-Scientologists seem to make excellent speakers - Mr Atack, Mike Rinder, Leah Remini, Aaron Smith-Levin, Doug Scott Kramer, Chris Shelton - I could listen to them for hours! It helps that they're generally talking Scientology, a subject that I find deeply intriguing and deeply horrifying in pretty much equal measure, but even when they venture into other topics they are just a joy to listen to. I wonder if this ability has anything to do with Scientology's practices, or if it is indicative of the type of people who join Scientology, or (perhaps more likely) indicative of the kind of people who LEAVE Scientology...? I suppose it's just another one of those nebulous questions that have equally nebulous answers! Anyway, thanks to Mr Gold and Mr Atack for this interview - an absolute pleasure to listen to you both! xx

I march Jon on anything about Scientology he knows everything about this subject and many more

I live in Spain and Catholicism has some very useful loopholes...or advantages. Confession being one.

When there wasn't artificial lighting, hard workers had to get up early to put in enough hours. The Sleep Police haven't figured out that we can work from four to midnight, or midnight to 8 A.M.

The best interview related to Scientology I’ve seen. He is so articulate and the questions were well thought out. Well done Andrew Gold!

I have slept like that for years, the same as my mum. I worked nights for years to make it work for me.

The word Aryan has roots in world that Iranians called themselves by Aryia, meaning free, noble and steady. The word Iran is derived from this very root, having been transformed from Aryan to Iran, meaning the land of the Aryans. .

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you guys!!! I have always thought there was something wrong with me for being a night owl. Pretty useless in the morning but fully functioning at night. ❤ Great interview.

Hubbards books were awful!

Brilliant Podcast...Just found this channel and really love your style of interview!

I'm a night owl, my mom said I've been like that since I was 2 years old. It doesn't go off well with the rest of society, I know how it feels. After telling a group of women at a tea that I'm up late and I can't fall asleep before 5 in the morning one of the women asked me disgusted: "well do you get up early at least?" Her husband was a psychologist, but nothing of him rubbed off on her. It was terrible being at school, and an office job was a total nightmare for me. I've been to therapy for it, and I remember one telling me to sit outside with sunset so my body can understand it is time to switch off. Hahaha. I literally hate sunrises, I dislike the feeling of daybreak. Sunset makes me feel energised. I started investigating why I'm not a day person and realised there is nothing wrong with me. Many are like me, rolling around in bed waiting for the sleep to come, only to feel drowsy two hours before I had to get up. 😩

I'm awake all night and sleep in the day, and my son is the same. I've always been a night owl! You're not being lazy if you're getting the same or less hours of sleep than others! When you get up is irrelevant. You work the hours that suit you!

On the part about “smart” people falling for things, I think that there are a few important things to note. And the first is that being educated or learned, doesn’t mean that one is smart, but rather just knows a lot of facts. And the second is that-I think that it’d be fair to say- that smartness is more about how well one is able to apply and think about information. But I do think that truly smart people are able to fall for things jsut like that rest of us, because they’re still people at the end of the day.

Very knowledgeable guest! A breath of fresh air. Thank you for letting him talk!

45.16: "when you start believing absurdities you will be willing to commit autrocities...." is a very important quote which regretably enough is again totally appropriate for these present days ( with excuse for probably misspelling some words, I'm not english 😊)