What is it you do exactly?

Thanks for the motivation

@@mathcodecomputer5301 silence means fake

​@@hh0686😊👍.

​@@mathcodecomputer5301well I guess he means he uses the documentation online instead of courses. (+ builds things I guess)

It's not a natural fact that whether self taught only will succeed or only non self taught will, there are many reasons behind landing a job, so we should not miss out all contributing reasons in our radar of analysis

Awesome this gives me hope, I’m self taught working in my first SWE job now, 6 months in. What’s your outlook on the dev work for the next 20+ years? How can I fight the odds of unemployment/underemployment

What field and what stack?

That was because there were less developers in the past. It’s getting too saturated now

To be fair, not many years ago you could land an internship with basic understanding of HTML and CSS. The landscape is vastly different today. That being said. Im starting next month as a self taught. It is possible.

Same here, imho, software development can never be learned in school, it's just a practice, simply doing it will make one better at it. It's a waste of time and money to attend a university to learn programming, real world software companies are far ahead of the academia.

@@xiawilly8902 It's not a waste of money you just have to understand that unlike quite a few university courses, you're buying the mentor and the commitment to the course with the network that heavily incentivizes you to stick to it and heavily disincentivizes you to stop. If you go to uni and your mentor sucks, your network is limited, your course covers random bullshit not related to things you are passionate about, and you spent a lot of money, it's more than a waste, it's a scam.

Code is code bro.

More Power to you man💯💯. Being able to teach and get students being a self-taught developer is really Awesome man🔥🔥

Sure you are. ;-)

I didn't. Now I'm creating my own web technology "sRWD"

I almost gave up like 6-7 times but I'm still going

how long did it get you? from starting from scratch

​@@wojciechsobiesiaksword

Hey, hi! I feel like I can relate with your decision to go the freelancing way. Having lost my job abruptly previously, I thought it would be 'safe' to not just dedicate my time to a full time job. I'd like to build my freelance career as a side hustle even though am currently looking for a full time role as a self trained data analyst. Do you have any experience regarding websites that would be 'friendly ' to a junior data analyst like me?

Think it like this, if you impressed engineers, you can do it again.

I never doubt you will push yourself toward your life achievement and finally win it! I was personally touched with your story telling because you simply told a story of myself in the past!! So I have much empathy with you and all my fingers crossed for your life success!! Go get it!

Nice to compare their journey when the whole global economy wasn't crashing to yours where it is crashing. They sound like narcissists that compare apples to oranges and always move the goal posts so what you do is never good enough. If you solved breast cancer tomorrow they would complain that you didn't solve colon cancer too. Why are you so lazy? You could only solve one type of cancer today? Pathetic! You're building a solid foundation and you'll start growing by leaps and bounds. Then they'll be angry at you for accomplishing so much and "competing" with them. Receiving criticism is a sign you are doing what's right/needed to accomplish your goals. The crabs in a bucket will be able to pull you back down if you view the criticism through the wrong lens. Don't compare yourself to others. If you're doing better today than yesterday and better this year than last year then you're own your way to success. Keep up the good work! You've got this!

Best wishes mate

Good Luck Eddie! If you ever get a job of your liking in the tech, do remember to update this thread here.

people should have a comprehensive screening test before being allowed to start a family. it is not a divine right, rather a privilege, a challenging responsibility

landing a job as a newbie has always been the hardest part lol. Also, it's much harder right now than it ever was, because of the horrible job market.

Man I am 28 now and I’m thinking that I am to old that there’s tons of freshman that the companies or startups will hire them and don’t even give a chance to me… when did you start learn to code?

@@arthurhakobyan7343 That's pretty much a hoax. I've started at 32. But as I've said, I was a self learner. However, I have met some people who started even in their 40s. Many people switched whom were even older than me. Age is literally just a number. I know a company who literally made a huuge mistake with this. They wanted only young talents in their team with only one single senior and lead programmer. You know what happened? Company went bankrupt. They realized that after having only fresh grad juniors, they are fucked. They wanted to save up money and have " hot shots " in the team. They made an insanely big mistake, it cost the company. It was one particular very important project which made their reputation sink. Nobody wanted any work from them anymore. Again, if you have the knowledge, willpower, etc. It's fine. I must tell you that though, in my high school, I majored in programming. So I already made snake game and other games / programmes by the end of my high school years. I didn't touch programming seriously for a few years after that, just a litlte bit. It's not a huge difference though. You can start anytime. Make the leap!

thanks buddy

Hey, thanks for the inspiring story. Reading through your post reminded me of my past and current circumstances. Started off loving to code static websites in the late Web 1.0 days and studied Comp. Engineering in high school but felt demotivated by Java, C, PHP. Somehow I couldn't make the concepts click in my brain. But like Travis said, I came to terms that I was just being too comfortable with what I already knew and avoided facing the challenges head-on. More than 15 years on, now, I'm hoping to break away from helpdesk/onsite roles once and for all by brute-forcing my way back to web development. Though I quickly picked off by self-studying again, I completed a Full Stack bootcamp to force myself through. Still a long way to go though.. I'm brushing up my basics first and hoping to jump to Leetcode/Codewars before finally starting my search for web dev roles. One thing's for sure though, I'm grateful that helpful content is much more accessible now unlike in the past. chatGPT has been my greatest (AI) friend to help out with breaking down complex concepts.

KFC

@@Agnes135 🤣🤣🤣

I believe in you

My man just keep pushing. You will manage to land a job eventually

that's the spirit! best wishes in your endeavors! you can do this!

What I find important about your comment is you like coding. Some get into it for the potential pay and get burned out. Keep pushing .

If society is to blame then it’s your fault. Genuinely not trying to be mean but it’s true. Ever heard the old “if you can’t see the crazy person on the bus it’s likely you”? It speaks volumes. There is no such thing as “society”, at least not in the way you and many others seem to view it. It’s not some big scary entity conspiring against you and everyone else, its a collective of somewhat likeminded people trying their best (just like you) to find their place and make things work. There are tragedies and miracles, each their own right to exist, you cannot live in peace if constantly worried about one or the other. An existence too concerned with the downfalls of nature will only see life as ware fare. A man loses his family in a car crash as another man witness the birth if his first born; a deer watches her doe be eaten alive while a mother lion brings home a meal for her cubs. Its a harmony natured figured out long before our tiny brains started finding responsibility in it, so don’t give the woes and wins too much thought Any notion you have of “societal pressures” or “societal expectations” is completely in your head. And just like programming, even tho you can’t physically grab a line of code, code runs shit. In that same way you may not be able to see and identify the thoughts and thought processes that limit you but they still hold you back and they’ll eventually run shit Comfort zones never start as such. They become such a thing once you grit your teeth, embrace the challenge and step into the dark. Every year of human life is done through stepping out of comfort zones, thats why the old are wise Your fears, worries, insecurities and the like only exist in the abstract world, so don’t see them as so detrimental, they literally can’t do anything to you, unless you see them as actual obstacles and roadblocks. If you have a voice telling you no it means you first had a voice telling you yes. You choose which one to listen to. Good luck my friend, go make some shit happen!

It can be done, I'm older and did it, currently using GCP in my backend role.

Great advice!

Bad advice! Those are very different than programming. You’ll not get experience you there working as a support guy and fixing MFDs.

> eventually How long is eventually? I have been actively looking for a job for a year and learning to code for almost three. I have sent out 700 applications and I have given up on the self taught route. I am getting my associate's then bachelor's degrees. Hopefully getting a couple of internships along the way. If this does not work. I will give, it would be ~five years of programming.

You took a job 30 years ago without a degree because the whole world was different and easier 30 years ago. You played this game in easy difficulty. Nothing you say matters for 2023. You are privileged for having been born early than us. Our generation will only have a chance at our 50s, when your generation retires or dies. You wouldnt be qualified for entry jobs today.

@@johnyewtube2286shouldn’t take too long, especially if you’re looking in atypical industries like banking, machining, food, etc. lots of vacant positions you can grow into from the ground floor. My first opportunity was working tech support for a fast food company, took about 8 months of applications and getting good at interviewing. Quickly moved into operations, and then into software. Took about 3-4 years. Been in the industry for about 15 years now, even had my old company pay to send me back to school, currently a sr dir for a fortune company. Took patience and a lot of moving around to get here. Also make sure your fundamentals are good.

@@johnyewtube2286 your situation looks similar to mine. I have a terrible family and wanted to move to another city. Nobody hires me because i dont have friends. Nobody thinks i might become friends with new people in another city. i just dont get a fair chance

I would say just take a course and try to build a project from scratch afterwards. I am taking the Meta front-end developer course on Coursera right now, I have free access for 6 months.

i have a firm belief that any electronics engineer can easily learn to write low level code because they already fully understand the actual physics behind how the device works. it's with very high level code like web frontend or dev ops that a different type of experience is probably required. but there are lots of people who are good at every single thing in the full stack

So how do you like the fast food service industry? ;-)

Congrats!

What did you start with and when did you feel comfortable getting a job ?

How did you get so good at interviewing ?

@@devonhyung2073 My first jobs were temping work. When I started the in 1995 Multimedia development and the Internet was just starting to become mainstream. I would be sent out for a straight html gig at a bank and then in the next cubicle they were having an issue with JavaScript. Another gig would be Video Editing and Lingo scripting CD-ROM…I moved from job to job and, as a temp, I was pricey so if they called me it was usually because they were desperate and the project was headed for failure. This translated to EXTREMELY long hours and having to fill gaps of knowledge very quickly (on the hop) - It was really ‘the Wild West’ and by the time the project arrived in my hands it was a REAL mess….but it was those sort of jobs that gave me the experience to take on my most challenging projects as lead - which I was most proud of. Being able to update Multimedia Kiosks when 128kb Internet was the fastest connection speed to over 300 Toyota Dealerships by creating my own language using xml 😂 because I blurted out in a meeting that I wasn’t going to be traveling all over Australia to stick CDs in computers all day….I’ll do it from my desk (this was considered impossible at the time) CD-ROM died and then I moved over to Flash and Asynchronous web services …and then Flash died and I moved back to JavaScript and Enterprise Web… I never feel confident about any job, really, even now (I just never let on) …besides, if I’m not doing it someone else who’s just as unsure will take my place and no one’s going to pay your rent for you….So this makes it easy[er] How can ANYONE feel confident when they are surrounded by people who are looking at them for answers…so they can pay THEIR rent at the end of the week…it can feel like a HUGE responsibility…but, like rock climbing, that’s the sort thinking that can cause you to freak out and fall - you just put your head down and build your app, one piece at a time. …’Just do it’ - don’t sweat the small stuff - ‘it will be all alright on the night’ ….and have fun

@@jgibson8092 I went in to each interview with it in mind that I already had the job…I’m not saying that thinking you have the job automatically gets you the job - that’s crazy talk (psychosis) …by thinking you have the job the language changes. You start asking about the problems that need to be solved, you start talking as if you are within the organisation AND they start to picture what it would be like having you work amongst them… So already you are starting to feel to them like you’re not a stranger. You’re empathising with them and they are feeling at ease with you….THAT’S why you’re in the interview. You’re not there to tell them your qualifications - they saw all of that in your resume - that’s why they called you in They want to see if you’re a good fit and if you can do what your resume says you can do. Try to look at your interview from their perspective, not yours. What THEY want, not what YOU want…then you will get it and you will say the things they want to hear. It’s kind of like a first date :) …that’s it - it’s that simple. (Well at least that’s what always worked for me)

Yo will do it , friend and excel in it ❤👍

Hey just curious, mind elaborating how your journey’s gone? What’s your experience consisted of in the last 3 years? Starting off and wanting to hear others’ experiences

Don't give up. The macro situation with the economy will turn around in mid 2025. There will be a surplus of jobs you'll be able to choose from. Hold on though, it's going to be a bumpy ride before we get there.

Dont give up.

Maybe your skill still not enough, try focus on improving yourself and apply job next half year

On the same boat, I graduated a coding BootCamp a year ago and still have not found a job! I have a portfolio full of projects and lots of connections including recruiters, the best thing you can do is keep coding and even if you can try to step your game up and freelance on fiver, its a good way to gain real-world experience.

Hey man. Keep up the grind, for sure. But more than that, build rapport and establish connections even with the companies that reject you. Maintain cordiality and express appreciation for the consideration in spite of the rejection. Ask them if they have any recommendations for areas to focus on. Showing an eagerness goes along way, especially if you can manage to establish a social relationship with someone in the industry and just talk to them on a semi-regular basis.

You study philosophy, or are a philosopher yourself? .. what philosophy have you come up with or worked on?

@@prico3358 I'm a master's student. Working on a master's thesis about Wittgenstein's rule following considerations.

Have you passed the interviews yet?

Recruiters have pushed me into roles i never thought I'd be comfortable applying for but turned out I was and I've been able to more than double my salary thanks to them... recruiters get a bad rep online but they're very useful.. i nearly hung up on my last one due to bs with previous recruiters but he somehow convinced me to take an interview and it was the best decision i ever made!

20 years ago the world was easier for you.

Any route is best as long as you land a job, whether that be via a recruiter or by some other means.

This "I didn’t pick up programming to prove myself to people. I did it because there are things I want to do with software". I've been feeling like you for some time.

Keep at it!

How . Did you know someone at the company I finished a boot camp and have projects and I can't even get a interview.

Who appointed you to the job?

Any advice? Should I just build basic CRUD apps to practice?