I understand having some concern over fatshark's potential delivery of Darktide, after all they have had more than their fair share of buggy launches. however im going to take issue with two things in this video: 1. I personally think the comparison to Deathwing is unwarranted to say the least. Deathwing is a bit incomparable simply due to A) the source material of the deathwing board game and the limitations that put on its adaptation and the past history of the developers being.... unique in their games design philosphy often being meandering and unfocused. And B) it being pushed out whilst production was being lead by a relatively small french studio who may have only numbered as low as a total of 11 employees (although helped by Cyanide Studios but to what extent is bit unknown) . Many would want a clean cut and dry to say the publishers are to blame for the poor state the game released in however considering the game may have been in troubled waters regarding its development its probably a lot messier. Considering the time between the release of E.Y.E divine cybermancy (their last game produced on a modified source engine, vastly different from Unreal engine used for deathwing) and the release of Deathwing, its very possible Focus entertainment (the publisher) had to cut their losses and release the game in whatever condition it was in regardless of quality, which is shitty but when it comes to industry happens due to tight budgets and turn arounds. These are two very different teams with different publishers so is worth keeping in mind. 2. People have been voicing their distaste for the "sameyness" of the 4 maps (2 are reused but are pathed differently) given to us in the Beta. I very much disagree and if you took the time to actually look at your surroundings rather than rushing through every level you would see they are as distinct as the setting of a Hive world could feasibly give you without spoiling later game missions. One lead to a courthouse and took you from the sewers to the gothic courthouse. Another leading through industrial areas before delving into a smeltery for the final mission. another going through more distinctly militarized guardsmen complex before the port. they are all very visually distinct if you simply look at what is around. All in all this is a good video, and I still agree with the tagline of being cautiously optimistic because frankly at the state of the Industry as it is, you should approach anything coming out of the gaming industry with skepticism, especially anything with Games Workshop's name attached, however when it comes to gameplay I think Fatshark will deliver be it if only due to their success in this genre and the lessons learned with both vermintide games. thanks for the video and im excited to see your thoughts on the games release!

So, imagine me, 8 pages into scripting a video called "My cautious optimism for Darktide" and I see this drop. Really well done! I'm happy to see another small channel make something so finely crafted. Your editing and attention to b-roll is very well done; I'll be looking forward to whatever else ya'll make. I think you hit the nail right on the head when it comes to monetization, but I think looking to Vermintide for reference, they're fine selling weapons and additional classes as well as cosmetics but at this point additional levels will likely be free for everyone. We'll see what prices end up being, how the addition of a premium currency feels with Aquillas and how intrusive it all feels but I can really see it being a point of contension. One other thing I have seen many people talking about but I'm planning on discussing in depth is the sheer number of voice actors they have on this project. There's like 21 total (6 for each class except Ogryn who only has 3) and I'm feeling pretty apprehensive about their ability to get all of them back in whenever they want to do big updates. I have a feeling some of the voices will feel pretty stagnant months or years down the road.

This is a great in depth way of company and deathwing and the concerns of the game are very vaild

I had the same feelings. When the beta finished I wanted more.

Best overview of Darktide I've seen. Hope to see more content like this from yall

Tbh this review still kinda keeps me optimistic. Maybe we can do it like the Orks, if enough of us believe its gonna be an epic ass game that doesnt fuck us over, it just straight up will be. We'll see. Look forward to shootin down the agent's of darkness with you fellas online 🍻

"It's not the most complex combat system." Vermintide veterans: HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!!

Awesome video if I had friends that liked warhammer I would send it to them

I have the same overall attitude, it may stem from previous disastrous gaming launches and practices but I also can't help but have this sense of apprehension. Although I hope Fatshark proves us hopeful yet skeptic players wrong about doubting them.

I am now cautiously optimistic. Great sumup y’all!

Wow what a great video) I like the way how you start a new chapter of talking :D hope soon you will got more views cus rly good quallity here!

Great video! Your ideas and opinions were very well thought out and articulated. My enjoyment of games like these began with tabletop RPGs and dungeon crawling. As a teenager, my friends and I would hang out on weekends, get shitfaced on Jack Daniels and Dr. Pepper, and crawl our way through stacks of graph paper dungeons. Eventually, we all got older, got jobs, moved away, got girlfriends/wives, and didn't have time to game like we used to. Then one day in late 1999, one of my gaming buddies shows up with installs this game called "Everquest" on my computer. At the time, I couldn't understand why I had to pay $10/month ($17.82/month in today's money, factoring for inflation) to play a game I already owned! I rationalized this by reminding myself that access to BBS's which hosted MUDs (the CLI version of what would eventually become MMOs) used to charge us for dial-up access. Once I started playing the game on my friend's account, I was hooked, and subsequently coughed up my cash. Some of the MMOs I'd played over the years featured group dungeons where 4-6+ players could take on content more challenging for better rewards than what could be had from questing/solo play. I really enjoyed this, and for several years, ran a successful guild whose sole focus was running them. Over time, other games would come and go, until finally, at the behest of my friend Danish Chris (a Warhammer fanatic), I tried Vermintide 2. What VT2 was (to me) was the distillation of the best parts of all of those experiences into a streamlined package. It ticked all of the right boxes for me, and I'd logged so 3,100+ hours of enjoyment out of it. Having played at the highest difficulties, fully kitted out in red equipment and enough red dust to party in Moscow for a decade, I'm ready for something new. All that to say that I don't mind paying $15 for a cosmetic pack here and $30 for a DLC there to support a game I got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of isn't so bad - particularly if it enables them to continue to make more content for me to enjoy. I draw the line at 'pay to win', but I'm not aware that Fatshark has ever done that, and don't see why they'd start now. 🐷

I’m optimistic for that commissar class.

Would love to see what kind of game this will end up as

Really cool vid. :-) Cheers!

I really hope we get a sort of extraction mission in the full release, where you have to do your objective while actively being hunted by a deathguard plague marine in terminator armor. Your only chance would be to not get slowed down by the horde. The objective could even be to lure it into a loyalist ambush and get a short end screen video of how you made that ambush a success.

Your roast of space hulk persuaded me into buying it lol I was already planning on getting it but the more you explained its nuances and shortcomings the more I wanted to play it lol

Honestly im going to love it. Played both betas and had alot of fun. Had some issues but nothing that i could not work around

its lookin preety good so far.

played the beta and im very much in the same mind set as you i played deathwing and felt it lacked a lot of content and the enhanced version was a lot better but still after the 10th hour i was feeling let down , vermin tide i love and vermin tide 2 and loved that also . iv pre ordered the game so on the 17th we will see !

Good video fellas

Spot on and great vid. I remain cautiously optimistic as well. There were some quality of life issues missing in the beta that are in place with Vermintide 2 that I hope get ported over with the full Darktide release. And I had some complaints about the Morningstar area. Like, why is it even a thing? Especially when you group with friends and don't even spawn in the same hub before or after a mission? I don't know. Fingers crossed though.

TBH I do feel the comparison to Deathwing is valid, but I didn't hear you mention the worst thing for me for that game. The gun jamming. That absolutely _killed_ the game for me. I don't mind the slow crawl through the hallways or the same maps being used, but my only real way of interacting with the game just randomly deciding 'nope, not working' absolutely killed any buildup or immersion that I had playing that game. Their insistence of having that in when all it did was drag down the experience, despite it being a large part of the tabletop game (which is not a co-op game, it's a pvp game) is something that should be considered for anyone adapting GW's properties. There's even an example of something similar in Vermintide 2 with the Warrior Priest. They let it slip on reddit that they wanted to include a flail only option for that class but GW put a hard no on that idea, despite it having a flail and shield option. Decisions will be made that are not considering their gameplay ramifications. Fatshark isn't CA, with that level of weight and pull to swing around, and this isn't Warhammer Fantasy (which was a dead property when both Vermintide and Total War: Warhammer was made) that they're making a game for. This is 40K, GW's money maker and they are frankly stupid about this IP. They both throw it around like it's nothing while also cranking down _hard_ on anything that they decide they don't like. Another thing we should be all worried about is the dedicated servers. I know people have been calling for those for literally years from Fatshark, but just look at their War of the Roses game. The servers were shut down and the game is not playable anymore because they decided that it wasn't profitable to run it. Dedicated servers was also used as an excuse to kill modding for Darktide, despite other games showing that they can, in fact, have both dedicated servers and modding happen at the same time. Overall I think you do have the right mentality going into it. There is plenty to be worried about and lots of decisions that are questionable to say the least leading into it. There's also a lot to be hyped about.

Vermintide 2 is awesome can't wait for darktide

I'm new to the series as a whole. Dumped a lot of time into the darktide beta and now a couple hundred hours in vermintide 2 and honestly I was hooked right away. I cannot wait to dumped an unbelievable amount of time into darktide. Was too fun in the beta.

Great stuff, I appreciate the long form and all the lore/trivia. The chapter titles "shouted" was a bit of a bother. Makes my apartment echo in the middle of the night while the audio is otherwise nice and calm.

I played the beta for about 40 hours, leveled the sharpshooter to lvl 20. I found no issue getting updated guns as I leveled, although I was partial to the shotgun over the rest. I played all 4 classes to around lvl 6 with the exception of the sharpshooter. I would like to see a little more depth to the classes, mechanics wise. Similar to the depth of the psyker but who knows. I have around 1700 hours into vermintide, have seen all the premium skins and classes added to that game and overall, for the hours of play I have in the game, I've spent less than 100$ for those hours. If Fatshark comes even remotely close to that balance I think darktide will be fine, but we will see

It’s not another halo infinite I’ll tell ya that

I have same problem, 31 hour in beta and I need more. Can’t wait for game to come out. Mission rotation and modifiers can make make it more repayable

besides many other criticisms that i personally have, i think you articulated very well what might be the main ones. very, nd i mean very few vermintide maps ever made me question what map that was. some more than other, but overall they felt very distinct, fun to explorer even tho they are smaller than it feels at first, and even throughout a single map you could get cool change of environment that made it a lot more unique and interesting. meanwhile in darktide, they all feel the same. they look gorgeous yes, but it just blends together. it barely changes through the course of the level, the level itself feels less interesting to play, and often times it feels bigger than it should be., even though in reality besides some big areas that are a pain in the ass, the levels probably werent that big, but it just felt like there was some many unecessary paths and areas , along with the fact u cant see shit and it looks same-y, it very quickly felt almost chore-ish and very boring to explore. so yes, i was also a bit bored from the maps and levels. not to mention most in game missions just feel unnecessarily long or boring, as if they are trying to just stall you.. with time, those become more and more of a pain, because usually the better you get, and the more time you play through something, the faster and more efficiently you want to progress. that actually disappointed me because i was under the impression they said they would give you more interesting and complex side mission stuff to do, but looks to me like they just added a bunch of "hold your ground" time locked events, the same grimoire mechanic, and thats it. not even dure if there are tomes or any other collectables. certainly not that i have seen. while in vermintide2 some tomes and grimoires felt like pretty fun exploration puzzles, some of them with secret pathways, locked doors, so on. meaning, the levels felt and looked more interesting, and still felt like they had more interesting side stuff/challenges. so i dont get why the sequel would be worse at something they did well before. either way, i truly hope they eventually add or find some way for the story to progreds in a way that allows us to have a bit of a different scenery or idk. As to the live service and possible microtransactions besides cosmetics idk, guess we are gonna have to like you said, stay cautiously optimistic. It can either go very wrong real fast, or it can actually improve the game and overall experience for the better. I certainly hope its the latter :-)

How sure can we be? Well, Track record is a great indication. They ARENT the same studio as many of the other ones who go FTP. Its a great studio that puts a LOT of heart into their product and try hard to listen to their players. This is gonna be a great one. Have faith in the Fat.

You mentioned graphics performance what are you’re system specs and resolution you are playing at

2k+ hours in Vermintide 2. Was a big fan of the melee combat. If Darktide had space marines fighting demons, tyranids, chaos knights, etc, I'd be buying it at full price. With the current state of things, it's a kinda "meh" experience for me, from all the videos I've watched, and probably gonna wait if my buddies from WV2 jump in first, and the price drops significantly.

I really loved this vid. I think there were some things not mentioned much in the beta that I think directly relate to the repetition problem and that's the simple lack of a story mode. I think if they do a story mode that lasts a good 7 or 8 hours that translates to about 10 maps (judging by UKposts vids length for mission) and we know that they've talked about reusing maps for different missions. I'm hoping we get a story that is a series of dives through connected maps back for blood or l4d style. It could take us from the depths of the underhive to the top of the opulent spires through churches, administratum and manufactorum areas, even outside the walls of the hice into the blasted industrial wastes! There is suck passion for the game from the creators and such untapped potential in the universe that I find it tough to be careful with my optimism. I bought it, the first game I've invested in fully since fallout 76 (I know, believe me.... I know). I don't play computer games anymore. Not really. But I think this one has so much potential!

I didn't have any issues with the game forcing me to use a different gun, I always had a new pattern of my favorite lasgun pattern. I think that was some really bad rng for you

Space Hulk could have been so much more. They nailed the visuals :(

Awesome video. I'd decided to tune out of following stuff about Darktide with all the delays, but I'm slowly letting myself get excited now that the game looks to actually be coming out. The Deathwing comparison might be a bit unfair, but I'm as disappointed as you guys are that Deathwing didn't live up to its clear potential. One thing I want to add about Deathwing that you guys didn't talk about was the exploration aspect of it. I really liked that every map in the game felt like just a floor plan, and that you were placed on one end and had to go somewhere else. Having to check the map and pay attention to your surroundings so you'd turn the right corner really added to the immersion for me, and massively tempered the tedium of it being a stomping simulator half the time. Unfortunately, the overall combat design was too mediocre on nearly every level (for the reasons you guys pointed out and even more, imo) for the game to still end up being fun overall. That and over time the game's performance seems to have gotten worse and worse...I actually get motion sickness form the inconsistent frame rates and stuttering in the game now. You raise valid concerns about Darktide, but I'm going to allow myself to be on the more...optimistic end of cautiously optimistic for it. They've only made Vermintide 2 better through the years, from scrapping the garbage dice roll system in the first game to all the various updates they've made to the second (except maybe Winds of Magic...). Their level design has improved as they've added maps to Vermintide 2 as well, imo (even if maps can get a little wonky in the roguelike mode). TBH the biggest red flag for me so far is your performance issues with the game. Vermintide 2 looks great, but it still seems disproportionately hardware intensive. The worst part is its performance doesn't scale super well. Most settings will net you marginal performance increases until you've turned nearly everything off or set everything to low...and only then will it be playable for people on lower end machines. Anyway, great video. It got me cautiously excited!

Best weapon in space hulk is the power sword.

Enjoyed the video, thanks. Here are a few thoughts: I've often said one of THE most important problems with the games industry in general is gamers are astoundingly BAD customers when it comes to demanding quality. Seriously, they're like addicts. They'll debase themselves again and again for a hit of whatever particular genre/IP etc they're into. It's as though their publisher of choice is their pimp and they are prepared to be screwed over and over just to get that next game rush for a week or six. It's sometimes frankly painful to watch, and it really gets me very angry that some of THE most abusive publishers are obscenely wealth and entirely atrocious entities. I'd hate to imagine what the people who run them are like as human beings. I'm a dinosaur, old enough to remember the very start of computer games. It's going to sound weird, but, frankly, in some very specific respects the vast improvements in PC tech and internet connectivity have been DISASTERS for game play quality. Why? A few reasons. Once upon a time, if a publisher put a game out that had bugs and serious problems, the ONLY way they could put a decent patch out was THROUGH PHYSICAL MEDIA. That mean, eventually, CDs sent to local game retail stores. As you might imagine, that tended to have them focus on making sure their game worked and did exactly what it claimed to do. On top of that, the games media weren't the generally appallingly compromised shills they are today. Any game company that pushed crap into the market got savaged. Put those two together and you ended up with devs and publishers that were legends, such as MicroProse. Why were they? Because they produced great games, REPEATEDLY. Second reason? Graphics are easy. So are sounds. Guess what's damnably difficult: PROPER "game design" which includes those basic elements but also the far more important ones of 'balance' (which means different things depending on the game; not everything OUGHT to be 'balanced') and, particularly important these days, the erroneously titled "A.I." (which I prefer to call the 'computer player' or 'computer opponent'). How many games can you name where the graphics were terrific, the sounds wonderful, but the game play and ultimate satisfaction utter bollocks? Well, there's the answer. Looking and sounding good are relatively easy. The REAL depth of game design is not, AND IT'S EXPENSIVE. That's why a franchise like Total War has been around for decades yet continues to produce utterly shite 'computer opponent' behaviour. Which brings me to my final point: the reason SO many publishers resort to these shitty and exploitative garbage moves is because PLAYERS are so pathetically weak when it comes to refusing to pay AND because it's a very easy way to make money. On top of that, governments are atrocious when it comes to consumer protection for gamers, although somewhat better in some places (I'm Aussie, for example, so I'm sure I don't need to elaborate, LOL). Put all that together and there are VERY good reasons to have concerns over shitty money grubbing tactics, repetitive junk, and ultimately feeling let down by really obvious flaws that leave you thinking the publishers really do treat their customers with contempt. We can all name a few of THOSE, after all. On the other hand, I think your review was a very sound mix of mostly positive expressions about game play and immediate hopes, but not "nearly drowned in the cool aide" drivel. Mentioning methods of 'encouraging' players to pay real money was and is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Cheers

Great video but let me assure ya one thing, Fatshark may have issues w/ servers or optimization but one thing they are not is greedy bastards. I play w/ my two lil brothers and only I have to own dlc maps for us all to play on, compare that to literally anyone but Valve (with LFD2) and you'll realize they are indeed very unique.

I'm a simp for Fatshark. I played both of the vermintides when they were rough before/right after launch and they have gave me almost 2000hrs of gameplay since. I'm looking forward to the inevitable garbage launch of Darktide too. Lmao

One thing for sure if Valve's goes for a third party developer to make a Left 4 Dead sequel I would totally go for Fatshark to make it. They did an total homage of the genre and knows the whole system of how a Horde co-op game works.

Sorry to hear that you felt pigeonholed into using the stronger weapons you got. As someone who played the beta an unhealthy amount (35 hours), I never really found myself lacking in a strong weapon of my choosing since the shop rotated frequently enough. The end of mission item reward also gave me some decent rewards. What difficulty were you mostly playing on? You will find with the tide games that at higher levels you really have to think about your build, and since the beta only let you have like 60% of the item slots as the main game, your weapons can feel really weak.

oh yes i was optimistic about this game but fatshark got this game right with the feel of the grimdarkness that is 40k the music, the gothic seting and theme, is just so so right makes you feel that you're in that hive city and excuse my language (FUCK DEAMONHOSTS) lol.

I'm sorry but you lost me when you started saying the storm bolter was the only accurate weapon. I do agree that we shouldn't over hype ourselves for Darktide because as someone who's played Vermintide 1 and Vermintide 2, I can say without a doubt people will say the game is optimized on release. Fatshark will probably never add a horde mode again like they did in Vermintide 1. Fatshark might also never add a mode like the chaos rifts to Darktide because they honestly have a habbit of chasing trends when a large amount of the Vermintide playerbase is DYING for a versus mode like L4D and Fatshark claimed to have heard but that project has been either an april fools joke or just canceled.

As someone with a fairly dated rig, optimization is my biggest worry.

His experiences and my own with FTP changeovers like OW and Destiny are the reasons why I will no longer buy those kinds of games. EVERYTHING FatShark has shown us tells me they WONT go that way. I trust these guys, They have worked hard to give us Amazing games in VT and VT2, and now DarkTide is coming to sweep us all away in glorious, dank, panic soaked chaos! I for one CAN NOT WAIT to wade in.

You have every reason to be cautious about Fatshark. They are in the very literal sense; incompetent and they have lied or lied by omission on at least four occasions. They have also been quite comfortable charging full price for DLC level content, and all of this was before they were purchased by Tencent, whom have their own list of "interesting tendencies". They are also quite political and you can quite literally lose access to your actual game by expressing a counterpoint or opposing *opinion* on any particular subject. Normally the very simple rule of "don't be a dick" would normally be enough to steer out of ideological discussions, but Fatshark quite liberally and literally has no problem breaking their own rules on policy and conduct when it suits them. As for the Incompetent part, the engine they taped together with spackle and spit still does not run particularly well, and they have walled off options for streamlining it that users would normally have access to this time around. They are also hilariously slow to implement balance and bug fixes sometimes on the order of three years before fixing game breaking problems that other developers have fixed in days in more complicated and intensive venues. aaand we're still waiting on the Sienna class + fixes and Versus Mode is nowhere to be found. Do your research, and buyer beware.

I can't tell if you were joking about beastmen or not

I just hope they don’t pull a vermintdie 2. I remember when this game came out, console servers where shit for almost 2 years and insane content droughts. Lets hope they do better with darktide

ok but why mention spacehulk when they recently made necromunda:hired gun that released in 2021? just seems weird to compare two different developers when comparing it to just vermintide 2 would suffice.

As a 'sequel' to deathwing i think we can be pleased but as a vermintide2 player looking back at fps shooters, that as u highlight, that have been done to death.. I'm disappointed by the lack of ai mechanics that are present in l4d and vermintide being seemingly absent in darktide.. its a backward step and i worry how both games will do in future.. I am angry T3 seems like the only way forward such a shame where T2/T1 has so many bug free assets and fatsharks history on bug squishing takes forever and expansion into the warhammer universe unambitious... Maybe Darktide frees fatshark from gamesworkshop shackles less lore breaking meaning free to do what they want....

I have to disagree with the idea that deathwing makes you feel like an astartes. All that slow ass clomp clomp clomping and constantly being out flanked is unsatisfying and not at all lore accurate. They're supposed to be all kinds of fast and mobile, packing the punch of an entire military unto themselves. IMO an astartes in FPS should feel more like the doomslayer in 2016/eternal.

Warframe is doing fine. That was samey as f for years I think darktide will be fine.

Get wrecked. That loud beep in the 18th minute caused actual ear pain.

Vermintide 2 is great but Diablo 2 is OG

Good vid, but your transaction slides are really cringe my only complaint.

The real Darktide is the swarm of crappy live service games the last few years.

Whoever is doing the yelling and stuff it's annoying but other than that I liked the video. Just my opinion, maybe alot less yelling next time

Ew, a death guard player. Jk lol love your vids