The unexpected car problem F1 teams are battling in pre-season testing
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2 роки томуModern F1 teams are always super-prepared for a new season, even in a year like 2022 where the cars are designed to brand new rules. But there was one element that proved very difficult to simulate ahead of the cars running on the track for real.
The problem is known as porpoising. And it is a phenomenon that was a problem during F1’s last ground effect era in the late 1970s and early 1980s. At its worst, it can result in damage to the floor and give the drivers a big headache.
Some teams have struggled with porpoising and its variants during pre-season testing in Barcelona. So what exactly is causing it, why is it so hard to detect and how can teams solve their problems?
#F1testing #F12022 #porpoising
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@Mgoblagulkablong 2 роки тому
Haas has a different problem: Tortoising.
@DanceySteveYNWA 2 роки тому
Sponsored by Shell
@izzyf9446 2 роки тому
Probably one of the funniest things I’ve read all week 😂😂
@randomdaveUK 2 роки тому
The porpoising tortoise
@F1ll1nTh3Blanks 2 роки тому
XD
@marouanekibani9607 2 роки тому
You sir have just made my shitty ass night, thank you
@EliteSkid123 2 роки тому
Fun fact , active suspension existed because of porpoising.
@Hemersonr 2 роки тому
good point
@pb-pw4lw 2 роки тому
"In for a penny in for a pound", you want close turbulence free racing lets go full AI with active aero flaps and pressure relief panels, this can become real fun and super technical ...
@zooot820 2 роки тому
And it will come back. Eventually
@codyheath8590 2 роки тому
Williams still has secrets about their active suspension in case it ever returned. Maybe F1 will allow active suspension again due to this issue. Williams on top in the next 5 years then yeah.
@mitchell-wallisforce7859 2 роки тому
@@pb-pw4lw Full AI? Do you mean autonomous cars or a machine learning program onboard the car (like Yamaha does with its endurance racing -YZR-M1- YZF-R1 superbikes)? A machine learning algorithm figuring out how to avoid porpoising could be EXTREMELY cool.
@KimiButNoDrink 2 роки тому
The Venturi tunnels coming back is probably the most overlooked thing. Yes it caused the Lotus to become unstable but the downforce was absolutely and ridiculously amazing. I'm so glad to see them back.
@michaelperry9180 2 роки тому
I think the new Venturi tunnels are meant to be much more stable. The skirts used to seal the floor on the old cars were attached to the bodywork so if the car lifted, the seal would break and they’d lose downforce immediately. I believe the new cars are using vortices to seal the floor (genius) which is much more consistent/predictable.
@mali5469 2 роки тому
And dont forget they don't come with as much drag as there is with over body aero
@JeffBirdOfficial 2 роки тому
I don't think it's been underrated at all. The entire rules are based around them.
@F1ll1nTh3Blanks 2 роки тому
To counter this, teams would use smart actuating damping and aero either passive or active but that's all banned so teams will have to find other ways, the team that does the best job will yield big. I wonder if we'll see a complete fresh drawing board approach from some teams in the future, that focuses on neutralising this.
@thatsl1ve183 2 роки тому
@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks in the past Mercedes have done interesting things with there suspension systems. But we will see who comes up with the best solution. At least at the start of the season, this could be a big advantage. Until the summer break i would think all teams handle it very well. Maybe not Haas, but the rest :D
@MiniMii550 2 роки тому
Hydraulic suspension systems like the ones banned as of this year would help a lot as their porpoise was to maintain a consistent ride height which would help lot to stop the porpoising
@eudofia 2 роки тому
I see what you did there😃. The 'porpoise' of the hydraulic suspension is to help prevent porpoising.
@ArkadiaII 2 роки тому
🤣😂🤣 Yep. Slow clap Ross Brawn!
@oisinleonard2648 2 роки тому
Duel mass dampers the easiest way of fixing it without the suspension being stiffened
@ChernyawskyNikolai 2 роки тому
Russia unexpected declare war at 4 am yesterday.
@danielbum912 2 роки тому
*sigh* take your upvote
@frankowot4 2 роки тому
Are they doing it on porpoise?
@coolice46 2 роки тому
Highly underrated
@ApothecaryTerry 2 роки тому
Not sure whether to like or dislike this comment...Dads around the world must be proud.
@timb171 2 роки тому
As a dad I approve of this comment
@tdyerwestfield 2 роки тому
This could also be due to difficulties setting up the brand new suspension and tyres that the teams haven't learnt how to counter-act the effect of the less spongey tyres on the car over bumps, kerbs and how that reacts with the Venturi effect at high speeds.
@Habdabi 2 роки тому
Yeah some feedback going on that isn't captured in simulation
@ChernyawskyNikolai 2 роки тому
Russia unexpected declare war at 4 am yesterday.
@KnowledgePerformance7 2 роки тому
@@Habdabi I'm sure teams knew this was a possibility, many of these teams have a ton of experience and modern computer simulations are incredibly powerful
@rbarnes4076 2 роки тому
Just proof that when suspensions and down force creation are adjusted at the limits of car performance, trade-offs exist. I'm sure everyone in F1 knew about this (at least in theory) , but simulations can only simulate so much (because simulations only express what we KNOW, not what is REAL). No matter how good a sim is, you only really know by real world testing and experimentation. This is true for ANY simulation of ANY real world system. Better data in, better data out.. but it will never be perfect.
@thevinceberry 2 роки тому
And no hydraulic suspension either 🙄
@1964mcqueen 2 роки тому
We experience porpousing in skydiving. For us, the solution is to relax. This allows the air to move more freely past our falling bodies. It seems that something similar is needed here; a sort of pressure release system to allow air to escape more freely.
@jhomkarlopatinoperez3 2 роки тому
Like an active down force reduction system? xd
@Gatotsu2009 2 роки тому
There are 2 simple solutions to this problem. One is to stiff the suspension but that will make the car bounce in even the smallest bump and avoid the best racing line in slow corners (therefore losing time). The other way will be to reduce DWF (downforce) but again that will make cars slower in the corners. Until last years the teams could run very complex suspension systems (hydraulic systems, inerters, etc.) due to this is hard to control the bouncing like before. You cant replicate this problem in wind tunnels because regulations only allow them to run at 180 km/h.
@klodinkediloni762 2 роки тому
@@Gatotsu2009 why not just say downforce 💀
@durim187 2 роки тому
the correct term you are looking for is active aero, not allowed in F1 though. but i totally see F1 allowing a flap under the diffuser to be programed to move in certain angles in certain speed, nothing fancy and F1 can keep all the data.
@F1ll1nTh3Blanks 2 роки тому
That's basically passive/active actuating aero and suspension/damping. All of which were banned in entirety, the later for this season. I see X and co have already explained this well enough.
@ebutuoyYT 2 роки тому
Was it really unexpected? The same issue occurred in the 80/90s, when underfloor downforce increases, meant teams ran ultra hard springs, affecting driver comfort in a big way. Active suspension was the solution, until politics banned it. This might ruin the 2022 season, as the first team to solve this issue, while still using all their available downforce is going to Brawn the season.
@wolfgangvan-uber6515 2 роки тому
Maybe they should reintroduce that too, wouldn't be such a bad idea.
@ebutuoyYT 2 роки тому
@@wolfgangvan-uber6515 The electronics / computing parts for active suspension are now highly affordable and accessible, unlike in the early 90s. There is also a direct role for active suspension in road cars, once F1 has done the R&D work.
@nickypoundtown9568 2 роки тому
They may aswell bring active suspension back seeing as they've brought back turbos and ground effects This could be the era they find a way to make all banned technology work together
@Barni2212 2 роки тому
They thought they can simulate everything with computers and wind tunnels. At the end they realise that nothing is more accurate than real life data.
@rnichol22 2 роки тому
Eh ground effect was banned years before active suspension was used
@mckeonthulani2122 2 роки тому
As an engineering student I'm interested in seeing how they solve this
@Den_Anderen 2 роки тому
Active damper in the nose might make a comeback
@F1ll1nTh3Blanks 2 роки тому
@@Den_Anderen Wasn't any kinda damping already banned for this season. How will it come back without regulation change.
@DeKempster 2 роки тому
Duct tape!
@90enemies 2 роки тому
Active Suspension, like no joke when ground suction were starting to emerge back in the 80s and the team faced this identical issue, they developed Active Suspension as the solution But guess what *it's banned* now
@loopie007 2 роки тому
It's great to see lots of teams having this issue and not have it plague just one team. Now we will get to see how the different teams "minimize" this issue, while keeping it legal, light and fast. It sort of reminds me of a aero wing that is stalling, or a wing that has flex along it's cord. Way cool..
@barrymorris7856 2 роки тому
I can see kerb damage as a real problem to these new cars.
@TheCheesenChips 2 роки тому
I think that was the FIAs plan, they want drivers to stop cutting corners.
@daytoncooper1891 2 роки тому
Red Bull Ring licking its lips to these cars
@doppey33 2 роки тому
@AdmiralOddSock Tracks the same for everyone! Yea it's hard to overtake, but it's more about not slamming the hard up the wall or off a kerb while pushing. Alternative is loads more tracks like Paul Ricard, flat, loads of run off, no punishment for mistakes. Should start forcing them onto tracks like Brands Hatch, Castle Combe and the full Nurburgring circuit.
@Nick-qx1vf 2 роки тому
The Porpoise intro was absolutely freakin incredible. Great stuff as per usual, guys!
@timwoolliscroft4201 2 роки тому
Inglorious Bastards style
@ChernyawskyNikolai 2 роки тому
Russia unexpected declare war at 4 am yesterday as Gilter in 1942.
@jesuschrist7169 2 роки тому
@@ChernyawskyNikolai yay
@KimiButNoDrink 2 роки тому
Almost every tall driver: * complains about difficulty seeing the track * Tsunoda: 😐
@hey2335 2 роки тому
You can joke as you like, but Tsunoda doesn't complain compared to tall drivers because he has already ridden 18 inch tires and has more experience than them. Not once did I hear him complain about the visibility in interviews. On the contrary, he says he will use the experience from F2 for this time.
@KimiButNoDrink 2 роки тому
@@hey2335 Yeah apparently they also handle like F2 cars as well with the extra weight which is an advantage for drivers who recently came from F2 / did well in F2.
@kevinchristopher2294 2 роки тому
In the video, you described porpoising is the wave motion as the porpoise skips in and out of the water. In actuality, porpoising is called that because of how porpoises propel themselves through the water. Porpoises (and whales) use an up and down motion with their tail fins and bodies, where as fish use a side to side motion. Which, is also where we get the term Fishtailing.
@CouriersLondon 2 роки тому
...and to help clarify matters further, Porpoises actually stole their movement from the world of break dancing. Yes, B-Boys were funking away with 'The worm' (or centipede) dance move long before any fish came along. I wonder also which driver we will hear over the radio being physically affected with motion sickness.
@seanriopel3132 2 роки тому
@@CouriersLondon well the missionary position got its name from the priests who would spread the word of God which had the unintended effect of also spreading women's legs which a "celibate" man couldn't resist.
@kevinchristopher2294 2 роки тому
@@seanriopel3132 pedantics matter. There was no disrespect, only clarification. The term is not at all being used because it is similar. It is being used because of the reason I stated. Now, he maybe using it that way because someone told him that the cars were porpoising and he went and looked up videos of porpoises and came to his own theory of why it's called that. That doesn't mean thats the reason it's called that.
@kevinchristopher2294 2 роки тому
@@seanriopel3132 😂 i guess you learn something new everyday.
@seanriopel3132 2 роки тому
@@kevinchristopher2294 there is a big difference between something causing linear motion from vertical movement and vertical movement caused from linear motion.
@jamiewaelend9242 2 роки тому
Great explanation, keep this type of content coming. I love following the technical challenges of the 22 regs
@chairmankaga2821 2 роки тому
Back in the original ground effect era, it was just as much of a problem. Skirts helped to minimize it but it was still something to deal with at every race.
@jiboo6850 2 роки тому
wrong! skirts maintains the seal of airflow which increases the downforce. which in fact increase porpoising. the more you push the car to the ground the more chance you have to bottom out and create the porpoising. the solutions are titanium blocks to keep the car at a minimum height or active suspensions. because with the raising of ride height, they will lose downforce on slow corners. considering the weight of these cars, it will be very slow in slow corners. not sure it's what they want.
@davidbrown8517 2 роки тому
When the FIA brought in these new rules surely they must have anticipated this problem.
@officialWWM 2 роки тому
Yes but they also know the engineers are clever enough to fix it.
@thegreatotaku118 2 роки тому
And that's why the FIA simplified the suspension system, to force the racing team to find the solution.
@captaintoyota3171 2 роки тому
Yes but untill your in real world theres no data to make solutions
@waynetowers5046 2 роки тому
The FIA are like Politicians, they get "ideas" for the everyday person (Engineer) to do which work in their minds, but in the real world the people know better and end up making things more efficient & workable. An example is the 2022 spec cars, they came up with a basic design, the teams made it better and are resolving flaws.
@MLB9000 2 роки тому
The FIA's only function is to set the rules, it's up to the teams to build the fastest car within those rules, and don't call me Shirley.
@theslimeylimey 2 роки тому
I'm guessing they will be able to get this under control with changes to spring rates, dampers, tire pressures or suspension geometry at the expense of grip or handling. It is a blessing they don't have the old tires with taller balloon sidewalls because that would have likely made the porpoising problem even worse and harder to manage.
@cjsnowdon 2 роки тому
I think the 94 Williams had a similar problem at the start of the season. The car got better after the enforced changes after the Monaco gran prix (or it may have been the Spanish grand prix)
@Mr_Jingles_147 2 роки тому
Agreed, and has been shown to have contributed to Senna's crash at Imola due to wear on the floor.
@ahmadfirdaus4183 2 роки тому
I remember alan jones interviewed in the 1983 french grand prix about that year flat floor regulations changes. He said that the current is car (the flat floor one) is much better in terms of driver comfort compared to the ones he's used to (wich is ground effect cars) but not necessarily easier to drive because its has the tendency to sliding around
@FelpsX44 2 роки тому
Ground effect + active suspension = perfect combination
@asterixdogmatix1073 2 роки тому
My thoughts as well.
@adityaramesh7565 2 роки тому
Also death race2
@gregmason8150 2 роки тому
They need to shorten the wheelbase and lighten the cars substantially.
@Shasha_Mynx 2 роки тому
That guitar when you introduced the porpoise got me good
@boomerang-digital8514 2 роки тому
if so much downforce comes from the floor. does that mean floor damage is gonna have a huge effect?
@fkez0510 2 роки тому
Absolutely, any floor damage will be devastating
@boomerang-digital8514 2 роки тому
@@fkez0510 worrying. considering so many track have damaging curbs
@fkez0510 2 роки тому
@@boomerang-digital8514 yep
@MrPHILFULL 2 роки тому
@@boomerang-digital8514 They will have to change the curbs on many tracks
@psk5746 2 роки тому
@@MrPHILFULL Or drivers will have to stick to the track limits for once
@okothobbo 2 роки тому
A problem I frankly had not heard about until the Barcelona tests. Very well explained. Only wish you had actual footage of the cars porpoising. But great video.
@harrybrown4815 2 роки тому
I've been commenting on this since before the launch of the new cars, and why ground effect was banned in the first place. When the air stalls the car loses downforce and then can not perform in a uniform way. That is on entry to a corner after a straight and cutting across the track the following cars air stalls and suddenly there is no downforce. Rather than being able to overtake that car is forced off track by not being able to retard the speed as there is not the expected braking available as seen in the previous ground effect era. Ground effect can only be safely used with active suspension.
@gerhardvaneeden5615 2 роки тому
Yeah, I see some major accidents happening. If a car is going through a fast corner (Pouhon, Spa), and this happens, it's going to be a quick and bumpy trip to the barrier.
@Grooove_e 2 роки тому
I wonder if this could result in lower downforce rear wings and stiffer rear suspension, less downforce over the rear wheels of the car and more reliance on the downforce generated near the car's center of mass by the venturi tunnels. My theory is that's where we will see many changes in the next few testing days
@imadrifter 2 роки тому
Stiffer F1 suspensions? Yikes
@donpaul4269 2 роки тому
Or no suspension. Like williams did😅
@dheerajmurthy393 2 роки тому
maybe not, i think its the tires, suspension and floor thats causing this problem. The teams are using drs to manage the situation which means the downforce created by the wing is enough. More downforce will make the floor touch the ground bit earlier. As for solution probably an underbody drs could be introduced.
@mignik01 2 роки тому
The tunnels don't compress and expand airflow. These cars work mostly in the incompressible flow regime and can't change the local density of the flow.
@chrispraz5198 2 роки тому
Great coverage. The Race has become benchmark stuff!
@iqdziksilver3884 2 роки тому
I just want to appreciate the excelence of the montage. It's really very entertaining to watch ^^
@Marine450x 2 роки тому
And now you know why IndyCar puts so much development into their "shocks". Also, isn't this what F1 wants, putting the drivability and management there-of into the hands of the drivers? In my mind this should make the on-track racing better and make who's fast & who isn't variable from race week to race week, and not the same 1 or 2 teams dominate each week.
@MX304 2 роки тому
That was not unexpected. It is always a concern when using ground effects.
@imtherealvict1m 2 роки тому
I think they meant it was unexpected That it was so severe or maybe they thought the teams would’ve found a way to at least help counteract porpoising
@jrc51773 2 роки тому
Nicely explained with great animations -- well done.
@TheMrFishnDucks 2 роки тому
This is something I never knew about before. Looking forward to how the teams will rise to the challenge.
@Nesformers 2 роки тому
It was bound to happen when they forced teams to simplify the suspensions to go kart levels.
@TomDeWeerdt1 2 роки тому
Simpliyfy the suspension? There are something like 8 elements to the suspension per wheel.
@Artiick 2 роки тому
@@TomDeWeerdt1 FIA banned mass dampers and other genius ideas. Compared to early 2000s the modern era suspensions are much simpler.
@squelchedotter 2 роки тому
I mean the rules served their purpose right? In an era where suspensions didn't need to be complicated, they saved a lot of money on developing complicated suspension systems. That can now change.
@psk5746 2 роки тому
Have you ever seen a schematic of a 2021 F1s cars suspension? It's far from simple
@losFondos 2 роки тому
@@psk5746 basically a go-kart lol, not the ones my local track has for rental
@Kev79 2 роки тому
It could really make for some interesting racing this year with no data on any track save for the testing ones
@ashantedula5696 2 роки тому
Active aero is the solution . Trim tabs that activate at a certain speed. Planes use them in the form of speed trim of the horizontal stabilizer and yaw dampers to inhibit dutch roll
@sammieessien 2 роки тому
Best explanation I've seen. Thank you.
@KillZoneHart1 2 роки тому
I think we saw this on the iRacing or the Asset Corsa game model. Thought it was just a glitch but turns out its real lol.
@Koziolrh 2 роки тому
I was thinking I was going mad at some point! Haha
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 роки тому
2021: When the floor stalls the floor drops. 2022: When the floor stalls the floor rises.
@carlandaimeeworden2814 2 роки тому
Fantastic video. Great information thankyou!
@kyalami7725 2 роки тому
Great analysis guys - love your site
@frenzybar7936 2 роки тому
The driver who has the best adaptability gonna reap the spoils this season!
@ijustfelldown 2 роки тому
So refreshing to watch a video not getting ruined by hearing Aramco.
@Dean0017 2 роки тому
You guys are awesome for explaining this. cheers
@jredcarenielsen5919 2 роки тому
Great information! Thank you!
@jayhow997 2 роки тому
Renault knew how to deal with it back in the day. Mass damper.
@ZontarDow 2 роки тому
I await the FIA's decisions on how to handle the Russian Grand Prix given Vettel is already boycotting it and Max has stated it'd be wrong to race there in time of war, looks like Malaysia may be back on the schedule.
@fkez0510 2 роки тому
Very unlikely to be Malaysia Probably will be Turkey
@sharpe3698 2 роки тому
I thought the consensus rumour is that Turkey would replace it
@ZontarDow 2 роки тому
@@sharpe3698 There's already a consensus on rumours?
@danhickey1227 2 роки тому
Would like to see hockenheim
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 роки тому
Lets see how this goes first, this might just be a storm in a glass off water. I have jet to see large columns of heavy armor crossing the border in to Ukraine.
@AfricanCryptoWarlord 2 роки тому
You are world-class. The village appreciates your effort
@jamespisano1164 2 роки тому
Very cool explanation. I hadn't heard of this before.
@prongATO 2 роки тому
I’ve been a subscriber for years now but think it would be very cool to get The Race over 1 million subscribers before the end of testing tomorrow! Let’s all try and make it happen to thank them for this awesome free coverage of testing that we would have been totally in the dark without!
@Petidani0330 2 роки тому
200 000 subscribers in one day? Talk about ambition...
@JohnDaubSuperfan369 2 роки тому
Google has really pulled the wool over your eyes if you think any content on this platform is "free". These people are simply doing their job, you don't pat the postman on his back either just because he's delivering your bills.
@applesandbannanas123 2 роки тому
I've heard Haas's indie car experience might have helped them to design for porpoising. Any way we could we get an observation/report from the people on the ground?
@jorgealain5126 2 роки тому
Look up for the Pietro fittipaldi UKposts channel. He describes day to day things on the Haas team
@ChrisBl33p. 2 роки тому
Haas don't have IndyCar experience. They have NASCAR Cup Series experience.
@leadlefthand 2 роки тому
@@ChrisBl33p. Newman-Haas has won multiple Indy/Cart titles in its history. Nigel Mansell can attest to that.
@ChrisBl33p. 2 роки тому
@@leadlefthand that is a different organization altogether.
@ChrisBl33p. 2 роки тому
@@leadlefthand you're thinking about Carl Haas who had the Haas Lola Formula One team. Gene Haas, no relation to Carl, is the namesake of the Haas F1 Team.
@dougharvey9766 2 роки тому
I guess a quick fix would be some very heavy/slow rebound damping, but ultimately a button that changes rebound damping when the driver needs to control rebound. Yamaha had a mechanical system on motocross bikes many years ago that was connected to the rear brake.
@jeffrykopis5468 2 роки тому
It seems to me that, similar to the roof and hood flaps in NASCAR, small flaps could be added to the rear floor pans, when the pressure or "suction" overcomes a spring or valve. Before the rear can drop too far, the flaps briefly open.
@alvin5603 2 роки тому
Pressure regulating valve ?
@paulheinrich7645 2 роки тому
The instability of physically skirted ground effect cars was proven in the 80s. How did F1 think that a vortex skirted ground effect car would perform any different?
@JeLifeCoach 2 роки тому
Totally different cars and situation from then to now. So little was known then about how things interact as an integrated unit. We know so much more now. Adrian Newey talks about all this in his book “how to build a race car.” The problems now are just from a lack off data but will be solved.
@Tjulfar 2 роки тому
Wouldn't this be easily fixed by not giving the chassis so much travel in the suspension , so the floor tnever gets so low that the Porpoising is triggered or would this be to easy ?
@Tjulfar 2 роки тому
Ah alright already Mentioned in the Video :D
@joshaltea 2 роки тому
Good one
@TheJohnlyh 2 роки тому
Or prehaps a better solution is an unsprung floor or diffuser. So basically the floor attaches to the suspension which moves together with it. thus having a constant height to the road even under compression. Oh well but then again im no expert at this.
@JoseNovaUltra 2 роки тому
Yeah, but it come with its own problems, cars would suffer far more for bumps and kerba, body-roll would increase, and it would probably negate the benefits of the camber in tires. There are another problems, but I don't know that much. To solve it maybe a suspension that gets exponencially stiffer? An anti-stall aero device? Changes on the wings?
@rinkwilbrink653 2 роки тому
yes but the tires flex too,this is something you cant really stiffen up
@8alakai8 2 роки тому
nice flying of the racing drone following was smooth maybe gopro stab to make it more smooth
@doppey33 2 роки тому
I'd love to say/think it would work out to just set the rules as..."Build the fastest car possible" "anything goes", No safety cars but if there is an incident that blocks the track everyone comes back to the grid for time staggered restart. No limits would push innovation and would let small companies design/build and race absolutely ridiculous things...Fan cars, 6 wheels, adaptive/adjustable everything, f ducts. mass dampers, electric, V12 turbos that make 4000hp etc etc. Got a feeling it would just end up as...Electric cars going that quick they can't actually race each other though.
@Chikaboom97 2 роки тому
I think we need to bring back active suspension to counter this issue
@nbain66 2 роки тому
Quite the opposite, they simplified the suspension this year. It's up to the teams to fix their cars
@autoacoustics4938 2 роки тому
Maybe teams should try something similar to the FRIC suspension system that was used before
@johnjones928 2 роки тому
Unfortunately FRICS and heave springs have been banned.
@formuladrama8992 2 роки тому
They just need to find a balance that's best for the specific track they are on. They can't build in any active aero as the rules stand right now, so either need to reduce downforce, stiffen suspension etc. Would be interesting to see how they manage on a sprint weekend with limited practice to tweek setups.
@benistingray6097 2 роки тому
What about progressive springs? You could run any compression curve you need so you have a soft start of compression for slower corners/loads and increasingly harder compression rate for the higher speeds were the car compresses the most. Maybe even combined with a second helper spring?
@SymplMan81 2 роки тому
lol, love the nod to Inglourious Basterds - "Everyone knows *Porpoise*"
@guquadros3 2 роки тому
Not unexpected at all. Mattia said teams knew it would happen, but didn't know it would be this bad.
@shaunlamminga4326 2 роки тому
Stiffen suspension at the rear, push rod should be better, and spring mass damper to dissipate the effect when it occurs.
@daniellawson2169 2 роки тому
1:29 that was hilarious, so unexpected 🤣
@TheSpacecraftX 2 роки тому
Could this largely be fought with stronger heave springs in the suspension setup?
@FTWGame0N 2 роки тому
Then you wont be able to run the curbs and the car will bounce a lot on bumps as well. So its one negative with another.
@gaxanuziagain1748 2 роки тому
hanging on to the above question, could bump stops solve the issue - only allowing the rear of the car to drop to a certain height and then no further. Once you know at what point the ground effect stalls, just put the bump stops 1-2mm above this and it should solve the issue. I'm not an aero engineer by any standards, and happy to hear differing opinions.
@Jabid21 2 роки тому
On top of that a more uncomfortable ride with stiffer suspension, especially on street circuits. It’s a delicate balance that has to be considered depending on the circuit. Mass dampers or active suspension can also help a bit but both are banned.
@TheSpacecraftX 2 роки тому
@@FTWGame0N The heave springs are the active component when both sides of the car change height in the same direction at the same time, to my understanding. So shouldn't that mean you can strengthen those and have a more rigid car on the straights while still having the car comply when only one side is going over a bump like a kerb?
@sheldoniusRex 2 роки тому
@@FTWGame0N heave springs only work when both sides of the car lower. A kerb hits on only one side, so the heave spring is bypassed and the regular spring and damper take that hit.
@joshoriordan3325 2 роки тому
This is why we need to bring back active suspension. @The Race.
@lemmor6791civ 2 роки тому
at 8:04 you can see the effect in standing water of these returning types of suction, the water in the track gets turn into a very fine sprays, almost like a cloud, it gonna make rain-in weekends more interesting...
@RedGandalf 2 роки тому
Mad respect for using the Hugo Stieglitz sound effect when introducing the porpoise.
@AndyFromBeaverton 2 роки тому
Drivers will need a cushion to sit on to keep from compressing their backs.
@DanClark_ddc 2 роки тому
Active cockpit suspension
@AndyFromBeaverton 2 роки тому
@@DanClark_ddc `Someone built one once and it was banned. I can't remember who.
@DanClark_ddc 2 роки тому
@@AndyFromBeaverton That is hilarious.
@KirbyCharkra 2 роки тому
It would be interesting If they just allowed DRS everywhere at anytime.
@Murciielago 2 роки тому
Bad idea bro. That means drs is pointless… the defending driver will be able to use it
@KirbyCharkra 2 роки тому
@@Murciielago There are many people who don't want DRS at all, so it wouldn't be much different than that. I think it would be amazing to see how design philosophy would change with that in mind. Maybe if you wanted to, you could have a limited time allowance for using DRS across a race... the equivalent of 10 seconds per lap or something like that.
@Murciielago 2 роки тому
@@KirbyCharkra yes, the DRS conversation is long. Referencing the initial comment “DRS everywhere at anytime” I don’t think this will ever happen I do think you have a somewhat feasible alternative. Having boost per lap/race where you can use a certain amount of DRS. This could be interesting but may be a safety issue F1 is moving in a direction that will hopefully eliminate DRS altogether. DRS is artificial and takes away true, hard racing
@KirbyCharkra 2 роки тому
@@Murciielago yeah I vibe more with my second idea. I would like to see more strategic options on race day. It's true drs makes it artificial, and needs to be improved on. Who knows if drs all time would really be that much more unsafe. I can imagine some wild dive bombs... But again who knows, it's obviously better to have grip in the corner, so the drivers will use it as much as they use the brakes. End point, I can't wait for next regs to focus on smaller cars and combative driving.
@meshplates 2 роки тому
Excellent explanation. Very enlightening.
@4192362 2 роки тому
liking the Inglorious Bastereds references, good to see hugo stiglitz as the AM reserve driver😎
@Kev-O 2 роки тому
Will COTA be undrivable if they don’t fix this problem?
@PeterSlovakthepeterson 2 роки тому
It already is, but this will make it 10x worse
@stefancroes 2 роки тому
COTA has been resurfaced entirely this year
@Artiick 2 роки тому
It will
@Artiick 2 роки тому
@@stefancroes 🧢. What's the source?
@calebkirby9109 2 роки тому
@THERACE Love the channel. The only thing keeping me from subscribing is your video titles after a Grand Prix. They're too spoilery sometimes and as a North American on the west coast not able to always watch races live I've had a couple outcomes accidentally spoiled for me in my youtube suggestions. Thanks
@MrSCOTTtheSCOT 2 роки тому
So feathering the floor rather than a single solid floor area to reduce the suck , or if you have a vacuum cleaner there the little flap at the top of the handle has little circular holes which reduce the vacuum pressure when you roll over rugs on a hard floor so you don't suck it up , so if they can vary the pressure with a little flap and various holes they can reduce the pressure build up to be more controlled
@HATECELL 2 роки тому
Flaps or vents coupled to the suspension could be a solution. Set them up in a way that they reduce the underpressure below the car if the suspension sinks down too far. But I'm pretty sure this would break some of the rules regarding active aero
@vivos71 2 роки тому
So what you're saying is that active suspension needs to come back? 🙃
@philosofiza 2 роки тому
I was expecting this, just wait until high speed spins lead to them helicoptering 20 ft into the air. Hopefully it won't end in cars clearing safety barriers and landing in the crowds! !
@annahenrietta9517 2 роки тому
Quickfix solutions would be adding bumpstops to limit maximum compression of the car, adjustable on a per track basis to maximise performance. Or a rebound damper to control the upwards motion once the floor stalls. That however can lead to an excessively rigid behaviour from the chassis and threaten mechanical grip loss. It's gonna be very interesting to see how the teams will deal with the issue. Especially since with the rnd cap they cannot just sacrifice floors galore for maximum performance.
@stephenr6427 2 роки тому
Needs turbo style grooves under the floor pan to clear the turbulence or boomerang shapes that will work I recon
@RealMaxoou262 2 роки тому
Lets go back to adaptive suspension that keep the ride height stable
@TheJGJR9 2 роки тому
monza will be a race to see
@seinfeld11123 2 роки тому
the rear suspension is too soft. thats what triggers the start, you see the rear bottom out because of the spring strength being too weak. also the tyres are contributing, because the 13" old tyres did A LOT of the suspension work, they now have to tune the springs and dampers much more to also negate this
@innnlove 2 роки тому
"ideally the teams will want the cars to work as intended", great analysis
@davilago2559 2 роки тому
No Russian flag on Mazepin. Nice
@TonySopeano46 2 роки тому
The whole car is a Russian flag Lmao
@indelible721 2 роки тому
Good catch. Didn't even notice that
@testpilotian3188 2 роки тому
Haha it’s almost as if nobody at the FIA looked in a history book.
@KristijanVragovic88 2 роки тому
They knew. But they want teams to to go along with it
@dannyvaux9040 2 роки тому
The porpoise intro at 1.30 killed me 🤣🤣🤣
@mordsythe 2 роки тому
Thank you for explaining porpoiseing… I’ve spent years wondering what it was. And yea, I know I could have looked it up… just too lazy.
@ActionEHamshraershV 2 роки тому
This is a non-issue. It's a "problem" insofar as it's innate to the technology. You don't hear sports car or Indycar drivers talking about it because they never banned the concept.
@G40s_WW 2 роки тому
That's what I was thinking, maybe they need to ask Dallara how to handle it 😂
@Turtle3000 2 роки тому
First like and comment! Hello from Los Angeles, California, USA!
@kevinmai4326 2 роки тому
Is increasing the stiffness of the last bit of the suspension an option? / Increasing the bumpstop / or make a really stiff little spring that is slightly larger than the current bumpstop when fully compressed / or maybe add a plate at the end of the internal dampening which compresses the fluid harder when fully compressed which can dampened the bump with fluid at a higher point
@josephhynes5874 2 роки тому
Show the animal. Play a stinging, heavy metal 5th chord...! LOVE IT! Great video. :)
@DingStiing 2 роки тому
Video starts at 1:48
@Tom-qb1rj 2 роки тому
Thank you
@stigmata77 2 роки тому
"meet the porpoise" genius
@OzDeaDMeaT 2 роки тому
Best use of a guitar rift to introduce a porpoise.
@SGAcba 2 роки тому
it is the same effect (jumping) that in 1979 happened to the Lotus 80 and the Arrows A2, that made the cars not work, in fact the Lotus 80 (full ground effect according to its design) only ran 4 races and they had to return the model of the previous year... I don't know how they will solve the problem now, which from what you see, all F1 2022 have it...
@arnelehrke1994 2 роки тому
I think of myself as a well informed fan but I didn't know about this. So thank you for this video!
@nathanmarkcuzkumar848 2 роки тому
This is quite normal to happen in prototypes when they aren’t quite setup right I remember being at spa in a ligier lmp2 and it suffered from this. Made it impossible to drive
@larsniklassonhede3798 2 роки тому
Thanks , very good information. Could you please turn of the sound in the background (music?) It's given me heart problem.
@Unamatrix01 2 роки тому
I am not surprised with the porpoising effect making a return. Pitch sensitivity along with porpoising occur when racing cars generate a majority of the downforce from underfloor aerodynamics, specifically venturi tunnels. Since venturi tunnels require a flat plane for maximum effect, incorporating rake would reduce the overall efficiency and therefore negative pressure crated. As stated by others, the porpoising effect was the catalyst for R&D and eventual implementation of active suspension in F1 cars. Since the new regulations have banned inerters, heave springs and the FRIC (Front and Rear Interconnected Circuit) suspension system used by Mercedes-AMG F1 in previous cars until it was banned. The only option available is a combination of suspension setup and underfloor tuning.
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