Why Mercedes has got F1's current era so wrong so far
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День томуOne of the biggest stories of F1’s now-cancelled Emilia Romagna grand prix weekend was going to be the debut of Mercedes’ highly-anticipated car upgrade.
The package is expected to be the first step in a change of direction for Mercedes after it clearly misjudged F1’s ground effect rules era at the first two attempts.
When Mercedes got things wrong at the start of 2022 there was a feeling both inside and outside the team that it was just a temporary setback.
But here we are, 27 races into this rules package and Mercedes is still well off the pace of Red Bull and has slipped to fourth-fastest this season thanks to the rise of Aston Martin. So how has Mercedes got things so badly wrong since the rule change, and why is it taking so long to troubleshoot its problems?
00:00 Upgrade debut delayed
00:57 Initial mistakes
02:45 Tricked by its tools
03:52 Struggling in action
05:30 Sticking to its guns
07:06 Changing direction
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@XscrewdriverX 11 місяців тому
A thing to remember is that the zero-pod is an evolution of the lineage of cars from the previous era. The trend there was to shrink the bodywork as tight as possible.
@Nemoticon 11 місяців тому
The 'zero-pod' design is easy to see and therefore the obvious candidate to blame. But the real issue with the Merc is it's floor and suspension geometry. The forward cockpit design is also somewhat of a fundamental problem for car balance... all of which is entirely independant and unrelated from the zero-pod design.
@jacobmassey3897 11 місяців тому
Making excuses for a consept that failed 😂
@junyutan2172 11 місяців тому
@@Nemoticon no sidepods also means front wheel wake isnt as effectively kept outboard as can be seen in many shots of the w13/14 locking up
@Nemoticon 11 місяців тому
@@junyutan2172 NO. That's only 1 small issue compard to the massive, fundamental problems of the areas I highlighted. The floor and suspension are the worst aspects of the car, meaning it suffers on both high speed aero and low speed mechanical grip.
@junyutan2172 11 місяців тому
@@Nemoticon the tire wake affects the rear wing, beam wing, diffuser how is that a small issue.
@shadowwsk3507 11 місяців тому
Remember when Mercedes first unveiled their zero sidepod w13 and we all panicked about how Mercedes will dominate f1 again for the next 6 years?😂
@ThesocialmuteHD 11 місяців тому
You was worried about the wrong team my guy
@Ruylopez778 11 місяців тому
All of the "GENIUS!" comments and, 'I hope Mercedes aren't punished for innovation!' LMAO
@groundedgaming 11 місяців тому
@@ThesocialmuteHDrather see a team almost undefeatable for 8 years, and then another 6 years for 14 years in total? Or a fresh face for the next 8 years?
@TheoF1 11 місяців тому
@@Ruylopez778 Yeah i remember thinking the same thing until Steiner came out and said they had that design in the tunnel several months before and they didnt found much performance of it. And how shocked Newey was that they chose that direction lol
@Ruylopez778 11 місяців тому
@@TheoF1 Yeah, the 'Newey is overrated' comments aged like milk. But now there's the constant whining from all the Merc fans.
@zXPeterz14 11 місяців тому
When even williams has the budget to redesign their car away from your concept you know youve fucked up 😅
@Shifftee 11 місяців тому
You know you fucked up, right?
@adamannear 11 місяців тому
“It was that point they knew they F$&’d Up” 😂
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
@@adamannear Mercedes always know they always MESSED UP.
@joelsantos3092 11 місяців тому
Williams no longer has the budget problems or limitations it used to have. First, there's a budget cap for all to respect, and second, the new owners, Dorilton capital, do have the money to spend. But they can't just throw money at this, though.
@The666opal111 11 місяців тому
your brain is undeveloped
@MaartenOosterbaan 11 місяців тому
1 key element I am missing in why Mercedes has got it so wrong, is the impact of losing a lot of people to both AM and RBR and the effects of the cost cap.
@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 11 місяців тому
The cost cap lead to them losing many employees to RB & Aston, they always had $40-$90 M more on their budget than the rest
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
I approve it.
@WhiteG60 11 місяців тому
Yes. Toto flat out said over the winter (I think it was) that if there was no cap, they'd simply build an entire new car right now, but they don't have the ability to do it with the cash limitations. They lost people because they couldn't pay them anymore.
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
Merc lost ENGINE ENGINEERS to the new Red Bull Powertrains 2026 factory....NOT to RBR. The former engineers arent working at the RB19 or for the current race team. They work at the engine factory for 2026
@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 11 місяців тому
@@gealingeman8643 but RB has been running engines under RBPT badge. I know its still a Honda but its the 2nd year, I'm sure there's some tweaks by RBPT atm
@nitram.9621 11 місяців тому
That's why i'm so excited for the spanish gp, a test track and most top teams will have introduced their "b" spec cars by then, much to look forward to.
@Ticklestein 11 місяців тому
I’ve got mixed excitement and worries. Both worries the other teams won’t have caught up much, and the worry that they did.
@nitram.9621 11 місяців тому
@@Ticklestein Yeah we're in the same boat xD
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
@@Ticklestein Tessa Ticklestein, Mercedes 2023 suffered a slow decline right now. Ferrari 2020 also got total decline before.
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
Lol they will be experimenting updates at Barcelona, ALL TEAMS.
@ChickenMusiala 11 місяців тому
The Mercedes fans and social media admin hyping up the W13 and 14 got me creasing
@andrewmelton2686 11 місяців тому
Bro said creasing 💀💀
@MuhammadNiz007 11 місяців тому
Let's all take the time to appreciate that Mercedes did something that many teams thought was impossible. Adrian newye said that it's not just about the aerodynamics or chassis, the Mercedes concept requires the level of PU DEVELOPMENT that I have never seen before. (Referencing to the cooling)
@Ticklestein 11 місяців тому
I know you have all the best intentions, I try to look at this from best intentions, but I can’t help but have a “Wow, the cope is high”-thought when reading your comment.
@user-ww9pd2rz4e 11 місяців тому
Newey was flattering them
@BigMic69 11 місяців тому
The truth is the truth, no matter how minor it may seem to some... 8 straight drivers & constructor titles says enough (lolol)... IJS
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
@@user-ww9pd2rz4e yep. So did Toto.
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
@@BigMic69 W14 is as disappointing as W13 imo.
@xenonentity713 11 місяців тому
Fall of another dynasty looks like, happened with Mclaren in the 80's, Williams in the 90's and Ferrari in the 2000's. Even Red Bull had a similar downfall after their success with Vettel so I consider it a natural cycle of the sport. The current Verstappen-RB will also have their own meltdown sooner or later like the Merc did. If would be fun seeing who'll challenge for wins later down the season.
@nithssh 11 місяців тому
This is a very well made and informed video documenting the topic, thanks for making it
@Whisper555 11 місяців тому
The cost cap killed Mercedes. They could have thrown another 100m to catch up last year without batting an eye lid. Now they cannot do that any more. The penalty for getting things wrong is much higher these days, especially for the better funded teams who used to be able to spend their way out of trouble.
@MarcelVolker 11 місяців тому
Basically, if your F1 car does not look like the one that Adrian Newey designed, chances are you've got it wrong.
@illegitimate0 11 місяців тому
Except of course, for the 8 years of Mercedes dominance.
@potatogirlcultist19 11 місяців тому
@@illegitimate0 And the MP4-18, although we don't talk about that here...
@TassieLorenzo 11 місяців тому
@@illegitimate0 That's true, though Mercedes were very insistent on not supplying customer engines to the Red Bull from 2016 onwards for some reason...
@MrOasis316 11 місяців тому
@@illegitimate0 that was to do with having a way better engine than everyone else and nothing else
@JKearns98 11 місяців тому
@@illegitimate0 to be honest, the engine was more of a limiting factor than the aero package. Redbull always had a good car, but the renault engine was horrible.
@ELSTERLING 11 місяців тому
I'm sure Merc will see decent gains from the new parts as they roll out but yeah, having to introduce them at Monaco... ouch. Not a weekend you want to spend struggling to retune your car setup.
@philipbarton3456 11 місяців тому
I doubt they will introduce them unless they have no choice because the Monaco suspension setups rely on the upgrades. Would be safer (and more Mercedes like) to hold out, use what they have, and just refine the upgrades till the Spanish GP.
@monochromedout 11 місяців тому
@@philipbarton3456it's time to get them on the car and start using them. There is little advantage to waiting unless you are a big proponent of points for 5th and 6th being crucial in the fight against Aston Martin for 3rd.
@philipbarton3456 11 місяців тому
@@monochromedout while I agree, the problem is that Monaco is such a weird track that teams often bring track specific components to Monaco as is, from suspension to wings and so on. So the question is, do you want to gamble and take a car and make it more unpredictable by changing it up so much to the point the car is a different animal then it was previously, throwing the drivers through a loop where they are spending all weekend learning the car? Or do you go with what you have, bring the Monaco specific parts only so the car is at least more predictable so the drivers can focus on qualifying because Monaco qualifying is so important. The car they have now they at least have some known predictability, and it gives them leeway where if anything gets damaged it’s stuff that was going to be ditched anyways which is integral in a budget cap season when you are racing on arguably the tightest track of the year. Especially since it’s going to be quite possibly in the wet again this year.
@dustinabigan2776 11 місяців тому
End of the day a team is bound to get a regulation change wrong and as a result fall behind someone else, Mercedes is no different. What should be a question is how it took them a while to realize the problem and deciding to make significant changes only during early this year, which isn't something anyone likely expected coming from a top team like others who can introduce solutions to problems quickly. Now it feels like they got lured into a sense of calm in the later half of 2022 then reality brought them back in 2023.
@ibleminen 11 місяців тому
Maybe because this year’s regulation probably expanded the flaws of both the Ferrari and Mercedes concepts and maybe even covered for some of redbull’s ability to control their floor and airflow. Also I know Toto was one of the major backers for this year’s rule about raising the floor, but sometimes small adjustments can favour some teams, like in 2021 were redbull was able to catch-up to Mercedes.
@Ruylopez778 11 місяців тому
Complacency and pride off the back of years of domination, combined with their spending power being eroded and losing key people to other teams (also part of complacency).
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
I am doubting it...
@dpjohnjones432 11 місяців тому
Yep I agree. The reluctance to change trajectory is liken to insanity and not a trait of a top team. That is concerning.
@WhiteG60 11 місяців тому
@@ibleminen It wasn't just Toto that wanted the floors raised. McLaren and Alpine did as well. There was talk that RBR was able to 'control' the height of the floor in an automated fashion based on the speed/downforce that would lower the car below the minimum ride height. The same was thought of Ferrari, but without the 'control' of it. Ferrari's was a natural effect of the downforce. The problem was 'how do you measure ride height while the car is at speed?' That's why they put the sensors on the plank to measure and that's why as soon as they did that, Ferrari fell off a cliff. They made the excuse of 'Oh, we stopped development to focus on next year' while they were still in the middle of a title fight, albeit slowly losing ground. No one with a chance to win the championship is going to say 'You know what? We'll just focus on next year.' when you're barely over halfway through the season. That's some Haas level scared thinking.
@Dabayare 11 місяців тому
It is like racing a car after enveloping a mask around the body work. It is a miracle they r still more competitive than most of the teams.
@LordMungo 11 місяців тому
Adrian Newey King of Aerodynamics. That's why Redbull is doing so well. It's not all about having a dominant engine anymore.
@pe-peron8441 11 місяців тому
It never was: Mercedes had always had the better aero package of the turbo hybrid era even when its engine was way superior to the others', and that showed when Ferrari catched up in PU development
@person81045 10 місяців тому
Not be following much past few years, in Newey back?
@dsdy1205 6 місяців тому
I mean let's not pretend that the Honda engine isn't literally the best PU on the grid right now
@samueljayachandran2849 7 місяців тому
Squeezing weight closer to the center also helps with reducing yaw inertia, but you can’t do that if that means your drivers feel like they’re driving a light truck where they’re too far forward and have to consciously decide to turn-in artificially late into each corner. They need to bring the cockpit back, use some kind of front-facing sidepod bluffs sculpted to direct air to a more complex floor front corner (with vortex generating winglets), have a massive cutout in their “sidepods” to just send air to the rest of the floor area, then bring the “sidepods” out to squeeze air into the gap between the rear tire and diffuser. That’s how they get everything Red Bull gets, and their shrunken body for weight distribution gains and the benefit of their increased floor area. I don’t know, I’m spitballing.
@samueljayachandran2849 7 місяців тому
Ironically if you do a fusion of the front sidepods of Ferrari and Williams’s 2022 starter sidepod and then the rear parts of the Aston sidepods, then you can get the front tire wake deflection, vortex sealing of underfloor, diffuser sealing from rear tire wake and the increased floor area as every team intended.
@samueljayachandran2849 7 місяців тому
Ferrari and Red Bull sidepods also did a bit of front tire wake deflection, and curving the airflow between the wheels and frontal chassis down towards the vortex generating elements at the front corners of the floor edges. Plus the back of the sidepods also shoot air at the gap between the rear tires and diffuser vanes to make a vortex seal there. You need those vortices and the airflow to the right parts. There’s many ways to get this and maximize it, but do so in a way that doesn’t reduce your ability to maintain good tire contact patch area in various conditions of driving (dive in braking, not choking underbody flow while taking kerbs etc). I’m keen to see if the Ferrari concept can be maximized by another team (perhaps Mercedes). But it’s the Red Bull concept that works on all tracks except Singapore (Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari seemed quicker than Red Bull there).
@jeantrg.9503 11 місяців тому
Thank you for a brilliant video as always. This one especially shows the array of engineering complexities we F1 fans “understand”. If someone wants to get an idea of how much work goes into just one car for one season they should study and watch this video until it makes sense. 🧐
@ericmcmanus5179 11 місяців тому
The fact that Aston Martin could be down near the back of the field one season, then semi switch to a red bull design and be up in 3rd place the next season really shows what team found the best path for these new regs.
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
Aston Martin 2023 seemingly had gone completely evolved.
@dylanburston7453 11 місяців тому
AM is a mix between RB and Ferrari
@WhiteG60 11 місяців тому
@@dylanburston7453 And Merc. They use Merc engines/transmissions/rear suspension and designed the car in Merc's wind tunnel.
@garbage2882 11 місяців тому
@@WhiteG60 They use their parts, but not aero so they didn't really follow Merc, they only used their parts to optimize the engine and how it works since they are still getting the same engine and they don't have their own wind tunnel yet
@dylanburston7453 11 місяців тому
@@WhiteG60 Not aero/chassis wise. Thats where the performance deficit is, all the cars are pretty much equal in terms of power over a lap.
@tedpowertrain 11 місяців тому
The banned of J Damper in the suspension affect the car performance the most as the rear become so unstable and so oversteery.
@diarmaidmoloney5611 11 місяців тому
The budget cap is what made them fall behind as they used to spend more than double the current budget cap. Also in they past they spent more than everyone else.
@sej8806 11 місяців тому
100% correct. They were cheque book champions and are finding it much more difficult to build a dominant car under the budget cap.
@petertownsend2255 11 місяців тому
True...but that has ALWAYS been the case in F1 only Brawn won a championship on a short string but the car was developed by Honda plus a small team from Super Aguri before Ross & Nick bought the team... had that season been two or three races longer Reb Bull would have won the championship.
@andrewhezekiahdaniel 11 місяців тому
@@sej8806 Nope, Ferrari had bigger budgets in the past, and Red Bull and Honda also had enormous budgets.
@Lanse1984 11 місяців тому
FIA took away the 2 massive advantages Mercedes has. - introduction of the budget cap - engine freeze Mercedes enjoyed a massive engine and spending advantage for nearly a decade. The engine, which is likely the primary reason for the dominance, is now nul and void. Car design is the new goal and under budget. Mercedes is not going to claw this back
@a.m3687 11 місяців тому
I can't see Mercedes catching up Red Bull anytime before 2025.
@alexcepile1420 11 місяців тому
or even after.. their time is up.
@anurag15271 11 місяців тому
Agreed, as long as the cost cap exist they can't
@felopateer1 5 місяців тому
2026* redbull will dominate till 2026 , as huge amount of new regs will be added then
@baronvandedem3997 11 місяців тому
Mercedes needs more than a new sidepod concept. Like the whole field, they need to switch to RB's suspension concept to challenge for wins again. Not even thinking about titles....
@henriwolbrink 11 місяців тому
One clear difference with other card is their pull rod rear suspension. Where interlinks need to pass under the gear box. Taking up space in the area of the tunnel floor. Though McLaren is doing this with a Mercedes engine.
@njkboom 11 місяців тому
nobody doing it as well as the race right now keep it up!
@LDTOK-zs8oz 7 місяців тому
I think the zero pods had a chance but Mike Elliott did not not concentrate on the front, rear suspension and floor. He focused on the aero.
@siopao_81 11 місяців тому
I bet that the sidepod is kind of a wing producing slight lift. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but look at their rate of porpoising oscillation compared to others. The lift fights the downforce just enough that the ground effect isnt able to stall the diffuser and isnt able to make the car bottom out, but also allow it to get low enough so that the ground effect still remains highly effective. Not saying this is the ONLY reason for redbulls performance or less porpoising compared to everyone else, but i bet it does play a significant factor.
@procatprocat9647 11 місяців тому
All Professional Engineers have experienced this to some level in their career. This is a particularly extreme example, but one which is mirrored a million times a year in the UK alone. It's one of the main skills of an Engineer.
@mrj3217 11 місяців тому
Mercedes are for the first time having to design a car with a capped budget. The multiple world championship car was build back when money was not capped. Then the actual developments teams were able to make were also locked to 1 or 2 major parts of the car per year so it essentially froze the grid. Well I am glad Mercedes are experiencing these rules for the first time.
@thelost3rdroundofsurf407 11 місяців тому
Are we forgetting the only team that overspent during the cost cap era was Redbull?! 🧐
@sebastianlucero4571 11 місяців тому
Another thing you are forgetting is, Adrian Newey was born -as engineer- in ground effect cars, the others are only adapting to it...
@Sam-hc3zb 11 місяців тому
two *floored* cars, to be fair
@rickden8362 11 місяців тому
One thing all these handling vs power gurus neglect to point out is the symbiotic relationship between the two. If you exit a corner faster, you gain speed quicker down straight. If your car has major power, as it increases speed on the straight, it needs to brake sooner at the corner.
@markg650 11 місяців тому
It's awful when you can't lobby for engine dominance and build in a generation defining advantage
@hanstubben 11 місяців тому
They got it wrong for not having imagined the car would porpoised. Then they thought they could manage it better with the mid season change pressuring the FIA, which was a shot in their own foot, it made Redbull more dominant. As the suspension layout from Redbull allows for greater ride highs, and have more experience with raked car that fits Max's riding style, Mercedes will be up for a hard task to catch up with them.
@y_fam_goeglyd 11 місяців тому
I know that private testing has been cut to save money, but I think it's part of the reason why we are not having the more competitive season. IMHO, particularly in the first year of a new set of rules, each team should be allowed up to say, two days of such testing - perhaps one before the official test and another halfway through the season. If that doesn't work, the same arrangement could be made for the second year. I say "private" to allow teams to hide any bad as well as good parts from the other teams and the press. Each team should have identical conditions so as not to play favourites. A maximum of two days (three at a push if the teams deem it necessary) shouldn't increase spending too much, and it might even save money in the long run as the various teams wouldn't need to try this & that throughout the year. Only allowing it for the first two seasons of the new regulations should also put the onus directly onto all the teams to get their concepts right asap. Hopefully, this would increase the number of teams competing for podiums if not wins.
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
W13 and W14 are a big dissapointments.
@WhiteG60 11 місяців тому
I agree. This is all because the CFD and computer stuff was flat out wrong. Adrian Newey knew what to do because he'd lived this stuff before. There's not a TON of guys still around from the last time ground effect was legal. It seems particularly bad to NOT let the teams test the cars in the real world. We would have known the porpoising was an issue. We would know the zero-pod wasn't working. We'd know Ferraris can't keep tires on the car when pushing. We'd know that McLaren went down the wrong path so did Alpha Tauri. Who knows? Maybe with real world data, Red Bull is even quicker, but the fact of the matter is that they're not letting the teams actually test their cars except for one track one time when the entire world is watching. They should set a flat budget 'cost' for a track rental day. Let some teams split the cost if they want to. IE: Red Bull and Alpha Tauri both rent out Silverstone for a day and they each get hit for half the cost. It seems so counterintuitive to say 'Hey, you need to build completely new cars with completely new rules, on a strict budget and limited CFD/aero, but also... you can't test them in the real world until a week before the first race.'
@garbage2882 11 місяців тому
yeah, it would help mid fielders catch up to the top, but it also might give a bigger advantage to bigger teams as they can use testing better, the only way to introduce it would be to do like Wind tunnel time, the top 3 would not be able to do such tests, but the teams below would be able
@stevenst6337 11 місяців тому
@@WhiteG60 every single team was warned well in advance of the regs starting that their would be porpoising. You think Ross Brawn the guy who designed these regulations doesn’t know how ground effect works?
@WhiteG60 11 місяців тому
@@stevenst6337 If everyone KNEW porpoising was gonna happen, then why was it such a scandal when it did? Of course Ross Brawn knew. And Newey knew, but I guaran-damn-tee you that Brawn wasn't double checking everyone's work and saying THIS IS GONNA BOUNCE. Plus, if everyone was warned there'd be porpoising, then ... maybe the rules need to be tweaked to avoid that from the get go? Isn't it kinda silly to say 'These rules will cause problems with most team's designs, but it's the TEAMS who are wrong, not the rules and regs!'
@dpjohnjones432 11 місяців тому
Innovation sometimes requires sacrifice. And everyone laughs until you get it right. Even with the failures from last year (and this year) there is a lot of data to be gleaned. People for some reason think if you get it wrong that you are a failure. The only reason someone would ever think this is because they have never actually attempted anything demanding themselves. However, there is a fine line between determination and insanity. True genius is knowing the difference between the two. One “ultimately” leads to success and the other to the loss of everything.
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
Lol Newey knew immediately when the CLAY BLOB as Vettel called it, rolled out at Bahrain 2022 😊 Newey knows exactly what Mercs issues are and its not just the sidepods. His book How To Build A Car, his biography AND tecnical guide for us to understand what it truly means to design and build a car, will explain a lot to many who want to learn more. Im half way now and I recommend it as a read. Its hilarious, sad, informative and eye opening all at the same time.
@Whatisthisstupidfinghandle 11 місяців тому
0:31 very interesting and helpful graph!
@rutvik5879 11 місяців тому
I believe till 2026 rule change no one can beat RBR. Don't expect anything from Ferrari and AMR. The only team that can challenge RBR in all terms is Mercs and like said by toto everything is progressive in F1 so if Merc progess so will RBR, until rule change that will make field even for them.
@dogger37JC 11 місяців тому
Yep
@Ruylopez778 11 місяців тому
Can we agree right now that we won't spend *all of 2024* talking about a midfield team searching for upgrades and enabling their exaggerations and accusations and excuses, because this has been the most repetitive and tedious story of the 2022/23 regulations? Undoubtedly, the remainder of this season will be about their 'upcoming upgrades' and eventually turning to accusations about other teams and requesting more changes to the regulations.
@Nemoticon 11 місяців тому
Not while the subject is the most discussed topic in the sport, meaning content creators are going to continue making these videos so long as they get the views.
@soundscape26 11 місяців тому
How is Mercedes a midfield team though?
@Ruylopez778 11 місяців тому
@@soundscape26 By virtue of being way behind the top team on performance, but not as bad as slower teams like AT , Williams and McLaren. And having only one podium due to luck with the SC and restarts. If Ferrari hadn't had such bad luck and mistakes so far, Merc would have even less points.
@Daniels656993 11 місяців тому
I can't fathom how Adrian Newy is so far ahead of his field. The guy always seems to get it right when he designs a car. What is it about him that makes him so uch better than the rest ?
@F1ll1nTh3Blanks 11 місяців тому
@@soundscape26 Technically anyone that isn't Redbull can be argued mid field. Although if theres brackets it's: 1. Redbull, 2. AMR, Mercedes, Ferrari. 3. Alpine 4. Haas and the rest.
@OK-fi4yq 11 місяців тому
I seem to remember the W13 being a race winning car..
@britishfilmguy 11 місяців тому
Just the one 😂
@OK-fi4yq 11 місяців тому
@@britishfilmguy was still the quickest package at that race weekend and multiple others.
@britishfilmguy 11 місяців тому
@@OK-fi4yq occasionally yeah still suffered alot of other issues mainly porpoising and drag so abit slow on race pace.
@Dre_The_Millennial 11 місяців тому
That win was a false dawn.
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
😆
@Dre_The_Millennial 11 місяців тому
Mercedes, as well as most teams, were caught out my the "porposing" phenomenon and chased maximum downforce from their floor. Adrian Newey's master's thesis was on ground effect so it not a coincidence that Red Bull have the best ground effect car.
@Frenki94 11 місяців тому
Zero pods is a flawed concept for these regulations. It was very noticeable in Baku when Lewis got past Stroll it was like he hit a wall when he left Lance's slipstream. Sidepod shape allows a laminar flow around it so that air is efficiently directed towards the rear of the wall. Merc no pod design stalls the air, making it turbulent when it hits the rear tires, creating insane amounts of drag. The point of concern is that Mercedes entire engineering team keeps saying that they don't know why it isn't working. I think the team's pride got the better of them over the winter, that's why they didn't abandon the entire concept even though Lewis and Toto were pushing for it.
@JakeM218 7 місяців тому
Simply that James Allison wasn’t there. There’s different interpretations of what counts as the most dominant car in the history of F1. A lot of people view this as the number of 1 and 2 finishes for cars from a particular year, and I believes it’s the James Allison Ferrari from 2003 or 2004 that takes that title. This year has been Max dominance, but it hasn’t been Red Bull dominance due to the gap to Perez.
@UncleKennysPlace 11 місяців тому
We design jet engines; whilst computer technology is awesome, there are _always_ surprises when hardware is tested.
@Ticklestein 11 місяців тому
The amount of bad luck of not being able to run a new monocoque/chassis at Imola and having to do it in Monaco, is hilarious beyond. I’m not a Merc fan, but it almost makes me feel bad for them. 😂
@dogger37JC 11 місяців тому
Guess I’m meaner because I’m really enjoying this. It’s the only interesting entertainment left in F1 right now.
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
Mercedes 2023 started to mimick Ferrari 2020. 😂
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
@@dogger37JC James, Mercedes 2023 seems like suffered slow decline.
@MDE_never_dies 11 місяців тому
This is honestly amazing
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
The new chassis is in 2024..... not this season due to budget cap.... Merc is only bringing other updates NO CHASSIS
@samwlloyd 11 місяців тому
Martin Brundle mentioned that Merc use to build 9 different cars in a season from 2014 - 2020 and just picked the less draggy one. Unfortunately you cant do that if you don't have a 500 mil budget and a overpowered locked PU. See you in 2026 Merc !!!!!! ( If you figured out how to do it with 1/4 that budget by then )
@mrj3217 11 місяців тому
Mercedes arrogance and their past ability with the last F1 president allowed them to be able to ask for a change in the regulations when they needed to change a part of their car before. They would do the thing like Baku last season where they put on a show thay the pourpsing was so bad it was hurting the drivers and needed to be allowed to switch their suspension. Mercedes knew they messed up with the suspension and with the other suspension system would have gave them the benifits it needed to keep the ride hight low. So not only had Mercedes missed on the Zero-Side pod concept, they missed on the suspension. I am sure we will see the Mercedes looking like the Red Bull with sidepods when we see the car.
@ronmurray7349 11 місяців тому
The amazing 24 Hours of Nurburgring race (available free on UKposts) got me through the week-end. As for Mercedes, I am beginning to wonder if their years of domination from 2013-2020 were all about Merc's massive power advantage, and not about a Mercedes chassis They got KERS right and all other Power-plants struggled. It took 7 years for Honda to catch up and pass the Benz engine. Now as we see with Red Bull, more power means more downforce, better cornering, while maintaining straight-line speed.
@zippo5294 11 місяців тому
At least they tried something with the w13 design, too bad they were so stubborn with it. Time for a change now.
@denzelbezuidenhout3007 11 місяців тому
1:27 that is an airplane wing on the side of that Red Bull😮
@MichaelB-qu6uu 11 місяців тому
The photo @ 8:08 strangely doesn't have either of the horizontal lines on the Red Bull 🧐🤷
@johnh9200 11 місяців тому
The one thing with all these comparison videos that bugs me, is that they don't look at the front wing. The 2022 Mercedes had a very curved wing and both Ferrari and Red Bull have far straighter ones. The Porpoising surely must come from an imbalance between the front and rear wings and, to some extent the uneven disturbance being generated above the Car by the curvy front wing, particularly in a ground effect Car. To me, that is the other obvious difference (after the side pods) between the Mercedes and Red Bull and Ferrari.
@ajegelin 11 місяців тому
It really all comes down to them not having their enormous locked in engine advantage.
@gealingeman8643 11 місяців тому
Exactly
@maxmagnus3793 11 місяців тому
Yes exactly. The turbo hybrid era was always a Mercedes coup of the whole sport. The only other team that was able to build a good engine (after 4 seasons) was Ferrari because they had the cash and experience. Ferrari being Ferrari, this still left Mercedes to keep dominating until Red Bull finally got Honda to build them a competitive PU for '21
@stevenst6337 11 місяців тому
Mercedes fans complain about how these regs are made for Redbull, but yet Mercedes literally invented the 1.6L hybrid concept and lobbied to the FIA to use their blue prints for a baseline of the regulations. They designed hybrid engines for 4+ years before other teams even had a clue what was coming.
@pe-peron8441 11 місяців тому
@@stevenst6337Renault was the one that lobbied for the concept
@stevenst6337 11 місяців тому
@@pe-peron8441 lol nope. Ross Brawn and co literally designed the hybrid concept and then lobbied for it. Renault had nothing to do with designing the hybrid not sure why they would lobby for it, especially considering their V8 engines were top of the class, would make zero sense for them too.
@CaptGC 11 місяців тому
They should've gotten at least a hint when their customer teams changed their sidepods last season..
@xperience-evolution 11 місяців тому
They need to fix the position of the driver seat and a better high-speed
@divinemeta 11 місяців тому
It was probably also worth adding that the reason their simulations were so off was due to them messing up measurements in their models...
@squeakybunny2776 11 місяців тому
Do you have a source for that. Sounds like an interesting read.
@notfrom63rd6 11 місяців тому
They should decrease the difference in points in higher postions in order to have closer championships
@ph4nt0k3n 11 місяців тому
A lot of people seem to complain about the amount of content related to mercedes but I think it’s completely normal. It’s always a big talking point when a extremely dominant team loses its place at the front and struggles to improve. Yes the car is not as horrible as they make it out to be but it’s still bad by their standards. It’s kinda like 2014 rb or 2020 ferrari
@andrewmelton2686 11 місяців тому
Its funny that they are complaining yet they still clicked on the video 😂😂😂😂
@JackScooter17 11 місяців тому
3rd in constructor’s doesn’t scream getting it “so wrong” to me
@dogger37JC 11 місяців тому
Considering how most of the teams outside of Redbull and Aston Martin have taken a step backwards I don’t think 3rd is all that impressive especially when it’s a team that recently won 8 straight championships.
@tenej6992 11 місяців тому
By an 8time championship winning team it is. Same was when ferrari was nowhere in 2005
@clemfandango2930 11 місяців тому
Yea it’s getting very tiresome hearing Lewis and Toto cry every week about how bad the car is and they talk about how slow they are you’d think they’re finishing 18th and 19th every race but they usually wind up finishing between 4-6 every race.
@mirianmeladze4189 11 місяців тому
easy they dont have engine advantage like they had most of the time , second they can't spend 100s of milions more then others, their personal is leaving them and they have problem of having high quality staff and their operational issues are now visible when they haven't got competitive advantage of 1 second to others.
@tenej6992 11 місяців тому
Aka a sinking ship. They still make a very solid car in the end. That should speak volumes
@mste456 11 місяців тому
merc got the rules changed to increase the ride height as their car was crap. Now as a result we have utterly gash races as the guys cant overtake due to the lack of ground effect. F1 is a total mess
@henriwolbrink 11 місяців тому
I'm still trying to find the video with Toto smiling when they unveiled the sidepods to their competitors.
@flyingberserker3965 11 місяців тому
What kinda saved mercedez was the porpoising rules changes
@Perrydrives 11 місяців тому
why is the audio sped up? sounds normal if you custom slow to .95x
@MrReese 11 місяців тому
4:53 the porpoising was under control but it was bouncing too much...? huh?
@photodave219 11 місяців тому
Merc’s zero pod concept is high-risk, high-reward. They gambled on something radical and it just doesn’t work. My thought is that if ground effects are based on the car being at a specific ride height, seems to me that you should build the car around the suspension.
@soul0rison536 11 місяців тому
The most important thing on the cars right now is the underfloor that is aside from their beam wing the reason redbull is so fast because they are able to generate more downforce with their floor than other teams and thus use less wing angle decreasing drag
@photodave219 11 місяців тому
@@soul0rison536 Well says you, I'm a dude on the internet! 🤣🤣🤣
@alebelliard 11 місяців тому
they relied too much on the engine. with 2022 new cars, aerodynamics played a more important role than in recent years, and the no-side pods concept affected their aerodynamic performance, which led them to fall behind
@87TIG 11 місяців тому
Give them time and they can over-engineer anything just like they did there. Simulated performance doesn't equal real performance it's easy to skew data on entry because the team like a particular design and want to show that in simulation.
@kambibolong4906 7 місяців тому
Did anyone notice that the Redbull front wing of 2023 is copied from the Mercedes 2022 car.
@LXT00 11 місяців тому
I just hope they go forward and not backwards.
@jamescampbell1242 11 місяців тому
The cost cap, they can’t throw stacks upon stacks of money at car development
@avint247 Місяць тому
They makes it 3 in a row now
@schorni87998 11 місяців тому
Do you think the Zero Sidepods would have worked with the cockpit further back? Like at the Red Bull Position.
@NotOnHerb 5 місяців тому
I work for Red Bull and I can confirm that yes
@DarthSparhawk 11 місяців тому
You know, I am waiting for this update, but IF it doesn't work IMO it will show that this team is a lot more Ineos than Mercedes-AMG, unlike their golden age and lack of overwhelming budget advantage means that they can not replicate what it once did.
@purwantiallan5089 11 місяців тому
2024 we may see Mercedes fighting Williams at this rate. 😂
@joereality1664 11 місяців тому
Easy to build a fast car when they had enough money and engineers to just brute force it till it worked.
@IamYuto 11 місяців тому
Never fall in love with potential
@Whatisthisstupidfinghandle 11 місяців тому
3:45 the simulators did not in fact, simulate
@jacobbarton6689 11 місяців тому
0:26 williams making a comeback 🙏🏼🙏🏼
@rossrreyes 11 місяців тому
Ahhhhh Zero Pod. Why have you forsaken me
@procatprocat9647 11 місяців тому
Merc were extremely innovative for the 2022 season. The depth of innovation was considerable. It obviously didn't pay off and it's baffling that they're still digging the same hole well over a year later.
@Redlingstein 11 місяців тому
Lol how they fooled themselves with the win in Brazil….. not realizing the others didn’t bring updates anymore and RBR had a wrong set up there. They kept fooling themselves in multiple races claiming to be fastest on track lol while others were driving a pre set laptime and not their fastest laptime lol
@whassupg89 11 місяців тому
I worry they just don’t understand the secrets of success with these rules
@ajegelin 5 місяців тому
Remember when Mercedes first unveiled the zero pod and the race said hit will have a much higher performance ceiling than all the other cars? It is almost as if the race doesn’t know that Mercedes only dominated their era because of their locked in engine advantage.
@alfred7350 11 місяців тому
Do you all honestly believe Mercedes changed their mind after one race and have used their wind tunnel and cfd allocation so efficiently that they’ve been able to bring 3 new major components??? No, w14a external surfaces are extremely basic and just a facelift of w13. They waited for more cfd and tunnel time to refine w14b further (from winter allocation) making the gap to red bull smaller to close.
@encoreartz1028 11 місяців тому
It's not bad it's second third best. This will work
@alistairemson4986 7 місяців тому
There is nothing wrong with the merc cars. 2022, was the 3rd fastest and a race winning car. 2023, 2nd fastest, not quite a race winning car. Far better than the cars they used to make when they were 5th/4th/6th fastest.
@hunter111uk 11 місяців тому
Producing a second underperforming car this year (relative to the competition) following last year's debacle is nothing less than a simply huge Management Failure. It is astonishing that Toto gets such very easy treatment from the motoring press instead of rightly having to take full responsibility, as the buck surely stops with him!
@xelasc 11 місяців тому
The problem for Merc was that in 2022 they designed 2 cars based on their arrogance that they can beat anyone with what they got because they are so good and they failed to put all of their efforts on a great design rather than showing off. Let them sink to oblivion for all I care and better luck for 2026.
@yindyamarra 11 місяців тому
0:31 good to see Haas and williams going up the ladder
@tonychan9752 11 місяців тому
Hindsight asset management is the best performing hedge fund in the world. Remember the reactions when the pundits first saw the W13, who could have imitated them?
@spauldingjones5763 11 місяців тому
But I watch The Race videos on UKposts. So, I know more than an entire team of engineers. All they need to do is put new sidepods on and they will be faster. Problem solved. It's so easy!
@gregoreo1975 11 місяців тому
This video is a masterpiece about masterpieces!
@immatureradical 11 місяців тому
I'm not an aerodynamicist but upon seeing last year's car I thought cool, but I wonder how they are going to keep the front wheel wake outside with those narrow sidepods. Since then, all photo and video evidence in wet conditions or under locked front wheels clearly show that indeed, wake ends up at the edges of the diffuser. So it seems baffling to me that any simulation data would have shown otherwise, or that that they would think their design offered any significant advantage to offset this. It's like you saw it with your naked eye as a hobbyist and they didn't.
@phightinphil25 11 місяців тому
Its almost as if they thought, less sidepod = less drag but then failed to figure out how the sidepod functions aerodynamically and how downforce can help you corner or provide grip. It's like someone who designs top fuel dragsters was in charge or something. It is all slightly baffling.
@masattac 11 місяців тому
@@phightinphil25 their sidepods actually produce more drag because the rear wheels are more exposed.
@phightinphil25 11 місяців тому
@@masattac Exactly. It's like something collectively between the ears of the designers stopped working at a critical moment and nobody questioned it. Every pro to the no sidepod setup seems to have at least an equalizing if not negating side effect in reality. They can't go faster because as you said above they haven't actually reduced drag and they have taken away massive amounts of downforce at key periods the car doesn't stick and can't corner and when it does stick especially last year the porpoising ruins it, leading to the rear wing changes or having to raise ride height and essentially ruining the whole concept of the car.
@spauldingjones5763 11 місяців тому
@@phightinphil25 I find it hard to believe that a team of very talented engineers don't understand how a sidepod functions or how downforce increases performance. My guess is they had a theory that the benefits would greater than the negative effects of the small sidepod. Now, that doesn't seem to be the case in reality, but I'm also fairly sure anyone with actual knowledge of designing a F1 race car, isn't watching The Race videos on UKposts.
@TassieLorenzo 11 місяців тому
@@spauldingjones5763 Good points! It is telling though that McLaren made their (initially slim) sidepods a bit wider, then a bit wider again, then a bit wider again in multiple steps. Like there were gains to be found by iterating in that direction.
@bynahelemaal 11 місяців тому
I feel like Merc knew their concept was meh last year, but purposefully kept it this year, even though they had a regular sidepod concept car ready, which we saw in testing last year, solely to intensify the the pressure on Fia to nerf Rbr. bc it's only been a couple of races in and never have I seen such a huge the amount of "should Fia adjust the rules bc rbr is so far ahead" type questions and vids during the whole Merc domination era! Coupled with comments from Toto, Russell and Hamilton about how the rbr car is 1 min faster than the rest, which isn't true, meanwhile the Merc actually was for several years! Toto already got Fia to raise the floor, which didn't really effect anybody as hard as Merc, bc they all figured out how to combat that, which coincidentally also made it harder to follow again, as the rules before the adjustment seemingly had worked in terms of being able to follow more closely. merc had the chance to fully change their concept and go back to the other concept during the winter, but they kept it, even though everybody and their grandma knew it was a shitty concept. make 0 sense, especially since Hamilton outright said they should abandon the 0 sidepod concept
@englishmaninfrance661 11 місяців тому
Newey is just a genius
@mn1907 11 місяців тому
mercedes for 8 years been taking his advantage from engine that was so op they have to lower power so fia won't put restriction on them, Once Honda develop quite similar engine RB dominated them in terms of areo
@jkliao6486 11 місяців тому
Didn't AMR realized that's exactly how they went with the bulky design and switched half way? Because the simulation was giving them better results?
@Tyrellle 11 місяців тому
Mercedes won’t be competitive until 2025 at this rate. Especially now they can’t dump $500M into development each season
@chrishood2883 11 місяців тому
Why are Red Bull at 100.038% of the fastest pace set by Red Bull? Or is that the team average Vs the individual highest setting the benchmark?
@sluggotinfantryman 11 місяців тому
I hate the channel racing in city circuit. Walls of advertising and narrow. And camera coverage media is way better in Nascar more television friendly
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