Have you seen the price of a steel bike? Carbon is cheaper

That’s true and ridiculous at the same time.

Ironic coming from Chumba...

Ironic coming from a whole segment of biking where people spend money on overpriced components and bags and bikes costing insane amounts of money in pursuit of a granola aesthetic.

That’s rich coming from Chumba who quoted me at $8k for a hardtail…

This vid almost looked like an episode of Portlandia

Thank god. Who needs more suits :)

Thank you for saying it out loud and in a polite way.

Stay weird!

If you think they're weird, you should take a look at the customers! 🤣

yep , I take a no thanks of electronic shifting etc.

When you cycle for fitness or competition simplicity is not the primary goal as long as complexity doesn't affect price and reliability too much. Granted, both are missed by e-shifting though. 😂

@@snigs5T5 I was 10 days in spain training camp. 50 people. 15 e-shift. I felt like every second day someone with e-shift had a problem. And next to ridiculous price once you crash the replacements cost a fortune and delivery time is eternal. E-shift imao the most useless and overpriced pseudo convenience 🤷‍♂️.

@@snigs5T5 The failures are no opinion. They are fact. I'm not trying to convince you. You made your decision and you likely never admit it was a bad one. No matter what may happen in the future. That is human. I give fact based contra hype advice to those who are undecided. And Im fairly convinced you don't have the skills to repair a broken electronic derailleur, but admitted I may be wrong you might work at shimano or something like that.

That same guy said dropper posts... as MTBr, dropper post are the best innovation for MTB in the last 15 years, hands down.

Yes to fenders! I have them on two of my bikes and they make a world of difference. Easily the best thing you can add to your ride to make it that much more enjoyable and extend your riding window to include all types of weather!

15 years of commuting in Seattle, putting the bike on buses, leaning it up against something the wrong way, the ulock or cable lock pulling the fender out of alignment, lazy wheel alignment, toe overlap. God don't even talk about changing tire size. Gave it up; it rains, you get wet, with or without. Bliss, sort of.

@@patricksheahan6530 no, I don’t get wet with fenders

​@@patricksheahan6530It's important that the fenders are long enough, especially on the front wheel. There's too short and there's SKS Longboard :-D

Word! I've been riding year round in Wisconsin since I was a teenager (I'm 45 now) and I just put fenders on a bike for the first time this year and they are wonderful! I should have done it sooner. Even in the dry they keep road grit off my chain and extend it's life.

When I started bicycling, I lost over forty pounds. That beats pretty much any magic bicycle unobtanium. Simple recognition that the rider, not the bike, dominates the weight equation.

I always found it amusing when a guy with a beer belly would spend thousands of dollars to get a bike that weighed one less pound.

I was a bike messenger for five years - very lean. That was almost thirty years ago.Since then I've gained a lot.Last year I started commuting to work by bike, and man did my butt hurt! So much more weight in a tiny area. It too k a month of riding before I could ride and not think about how much my behind ached. So yes, losing weight will definitely make riding bearable. Steel frames rule! Carbon fiber? Nah.

Underrated: getting a heavy bike with "tight is right" cups and cones to lose weight faster

@@443DMIt's a matter of priorities: Outright speed? Or lower cost and a workout?

Me too. ❤

Plp?

@@mathewreinhart8211 Path Less Pedaled, this youtube channel

​@@mathewreinhart8211 the channel. Path Less Pedaled

I don't mind my clipless pedals, but as someone who has multiple sew-up wheelsets, I do resent having new wheel tech shoved down my throat.

Look like he lives on prayer, or he got shot though the ❤️ or something.

I'm a cyclist because I can't stand hiking, no thanks on tubes. I've had my fair share of pinch punctures, I like to run on lower PSI on some downhill trails, tubeless (IMO) is the only way to go. Know on wood, but I haven't had a single (stranded in the trail) puncture with tubeless...

26” for what type of biking though? I think 29” was a great upgrade for my mountain bike

​@@captainjacobkeyes673326 for commuting in the city. Bike gets a smaller footprint, you can get old but bulletproof MTB parts for cheap, etc.

aluminum is so harsh and so unnecessary. You can easily find carbon frames for the same price that are lighter and more comfortable, or steel frames that are heavier and way more comfortable.

@@l.d.t.6327 carbon is usually an 600-800 dollar premium for the entry level frame sets. They are less resilient to damage but they are more efficiently (stiffer bottom bracket) and usually more compliant. So there is case to make either way.

@@1barnet1 There are tons of cheap 2nd hand or Chinese carbon framesets around 3-600 dollar. They are more compliant, stiffer in the BB and ligher, and thus a more comfy and enjoyable ride. Why anyone would still buy an aluminum race bike, except for very smooth asphalt crits, is beyond me.

Agree

100% this. Disappointed that kickstands weren't mentioned

I ended up grabbing a click-stand maxi for my touring bike and love it. No way I'm dumping my bike all day or wrestling with it to get in my panniers.

+1 for clickstand. So versatile.

Thumbs up for this comment! Most shops near me don’t even carry kickstands-

Friction shifting of course!

🎉

She was right! Path Less Pedaled is influencing things for the better.

Absolutely. Love my hybrid gravel bike. Broke everything on it twice so finally upgraded to a good GRX drivetrain that should last.

Definitely!

It depends how far you commute, I used to commute 34 miles per day, 5 days per week for 25 years all year, in all weathers. An upright bike would have been a nightmare against the wind, rain, snow and hail over a long distance. My racing bike with clip on TT bars made the job faster and easier to get to work and back and with it having multiple hand positions, very comfortable over a distance.

​@@stevezodiac491 but that's not the case for the vast majority of people, so clearly not talking about a situation like yours

Must never take his hands off the bars.

Cannot agree more. That guy clearly doesn't ride dirt.

exactly what I was thinking. After I tried a bike with a dropper for the first time there's no way I could go back

Almost all bike builders have a bit of narcissism that spills out when provoked with such deep questions as “how’s it going?”,

Now that cyclocross season is starting I’m missing my dropper more and more

@@ksnaxRonnie actually used to be an XC racer in his earlier years, he has some photos up on The Radavist when he used to compete

Yep...100%! I only really ride XC trails these days, but like you was cynical about the dropper...........until I got one, wouldn't want to ride off road without one now I also feel they haven't been exploited to help older (and shorter) riders on "regular" commuter/utilitarian bikes...

I think that many modern bikes are designed assuming that they will be equipped with a dropper post, which compromises the geometry when you don't have one.

It was a night and day experience for me too when I first bought a dropper post. I really like the PNW ones. They're not super expensive and just work well. Same with hydraulic disc brakes. My Shimano deores have been nothing short of reliable and easy to maintain. Although for DH, I love my Hayes 4 pot stoppers lol.

Any off-road riding warrants a dropper imo. Not fire roads, singletrack

@@stuartdilts2729what “many modern” Bikes were designed for dropper but don’t have one that make it hard to use a seat post? I really find this statement wild lol

Yes! Many of us can’t get our leg over especially when there’s a loaded rack. I bicycled from Chicago to NYC and could only get on & off my loaded bike if I had a way to lean it. What a pain. Especially for many of us as we get older.

Yeah this was pretty echo chamber-y. Who could have guessed people who make custom bikes to look cool and be unique aren't going to like race bikes.

​@roddyeskew3909 most people don't like race bikes. these are Bike People, they would be the ones to say it, reliability and practicality is better for everyone else that doesn't race

@@drivebay6479I think there's considerable value in a classic race bike _if_ you're seeking to cover significant distance at a good speed. I think modern race bikes are silly unless you're planning to take out a license and race.

@@christopheroliver148 a license?

I'd flip that around and say chains. Cheaper, ubiquitous, and no special frame modifications required. On certain bikes a belt is better, but the cost precludes use by many riders.

@@seitenryu6844 Ever commute in winter on roads treated with road salt? Yeah, those gears, derailleur, and chains have to be cleaned, dried, and lubed 2-3 times a day in those conditions. The belt drive and internal hub have been a godsend for me, and ultimately comparable in price considering what I didn't have to replace as a result of the belt drive system.

If you have to leave the bike outside, or use it daily through rain and pollution, then the hub + belt seems like a good alternative. But for leisure and occasional rides, you mostly get a less efficient, much more expensive bike with a belt.

I remember watching a GCN video where they were talking about their gravel bikes having absolute _chonky_ tires at 30+ mm...meanwhile my hybrid came standard with 38s and I thought _that_ was on the skinny side!

Shhh.....you'll cut into their mantra and profits!

I dont know how you define "hybrid" but from my experience, the large majority of hybrid bikes from the past has NOT a "gravel geometry" but a MTB-like Geometry with looong top tubes and high bottom brackets. I converted a hybrid to a budget gravel bike myself and searched several years - yes YEARS - for one with a suitable Geometry for drop bar conversion (btw. a 1991s Peugeot "Boston").

I put a gravel bike together all from parts and frame left over from years of bike building and upgrades. 2006 Gt idrive with 5'inch suspension -michelin country rock 60psi gravel tires . This is a high speed urban shredder with so much comfort with the 5 inch suspension. Cost 50$ total (tires)

when you put small tires on a mtb frame the BB drops almost a inch and old mtbs did not have long top tubes lol they had long stems.@@martinkrautter8325

So true! I built a "single speed" with an old Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub. These things are indestructable and easy to service. Loads of maintanance videos online. Looks like a single speed, but is better in almost every way.

Heinz Stücke can confirm! 43 of his 52 years, 530,000km with a 3speed bicycle. Total 196 countries, 78 territories, 648,000km.

Yes! All I need 90% of the time is 3 gears: start, easy, fast. and snow/mud/ice/salt/sand proof

Indeed - if your area is very hilly it might not go low enough, and if your distances are long and you're trying to eke out the shortest journey times, then the wide ratios may be constraining, e.g. spinning in 2nd when 3rd is a stretch, and I spin out at 22mph. But if you are OK with taking a few percent longer , it's an incredibly versatile set of gears. With 3rd as a single-speed ratio I only use 1st for setting off from stationary or for the steepest hills. Efficient too. I do use derailleurs a lot for the (Boston urban) commute in good weather, for the close ratios but not so much for the extra range. Every time I have to buy a new cassette I wonder if I should just use the 3-speed, that needs a very occasional service or new $10 cog.

Doesn't begin to give a low enough ratio for hilly cities such as Athens GA. I rode a three speed here as a kid and walked that thing up many, many hills many, many times.

It’s hard to beat, for sure

good enough for older campanolo , good enough for me

They are fun, until you have to replace an old one. Once they are stuck, only way of getting them out is by heating them up with a flame torch. And yes I do use the proper removal tool. I rather have some nice SRAM Dub screw in bottom brackets, much easier to work with.

Yup. Almost as light as carbon (not that weight really matters anyway), and almost as durable as titanium (not that frame corrosion is ever going to be a problem in your lifetime anyway). If aluminum was more expensive than carbon, everyone would be raving about aluminum frames.

But it’ll ride worse and won’t be as durable as steel. It’s cheap way to make a delicate light and stiff bike.

Doesn't aluminium work harden due to vibration?

@@uvwuvw-ol3fg It work-hardens and ultimately fails due to fatigue loading; in order to combat this frames are built heavier which in turn makes them stiffer and less comfortable. Crap choice of material for a bike frame IMO and yet another example of change for the sake of it / focus on one attribute (mass) of questionable value for marketing purposes, while ignoring all the drawbacks (harsh ride and short service life). I've only owned one ally-framed bike - was a proper bone-shaker and eventually died after maybe 5-6k miles as the frame cracked due to the above reasons. Needless to say I'll not be entertaining the idea of another..

​@@Mike-de7wv what material do u ride

Yeah, we wouldn't put up with having to charge and attach lights to a car every time we wanted to use it. And decent ones make you more visible during the day too.

All three of my bikes have dynamos, best thing in have ever done with my bikes.

Yeah, I hate to admit it but I didn't want a dynamo front hub on my bike because I was worried about the hub's strength when hitting the ruts. So far my Son dynamo is holding up. It just sits there most of the time but when I need light, bam, there it is. No charging no having to wonder. Yes I can slightly feel it drag but only when going up inclines. It is really hard to tell and is more of a cumulative fatigue over miles. I think it must be due to the hubs weight, like a rock-solid Phil Wood stainless hub.

@@markmoreno7295 maybe the sun hubs are different but the shimano hubs have not changed and is as clunky as 80 year old technology, and so difficult to adjust the bearings. most cities have plenty of light unless you find yourself in unknown territory, so unless you are charging a phone, all the energy is just wasted, compared to the old school generator that ran off the tire when needed...

Agreed. I have a dynamo on my newest bike and it's great.

Electronic shifting on manual bikes doesn’t make much sense to me, but on e bikes it makes a huge difference. Not just gearbox drive but also with UDH and electronic shifting, the drivetrain is much more durable. It’s apples to oranges imo.

@@matthewshultz8762 I haven’t seen that, but it sounds reasonable. Electronic shifting on manual bikes just feels like too much

Yeah I can see use cases for it (as mentioned, E-bikes. Hell I think belt drive trains should probably be more popular for E-bikes too). On gravel and mountain it feels backwards. I tried a Trek MTB with GX AXS on it for a couple weeks (loaner bike while mine was in the shop). I had zero feedback which gear I was in and couldn't tell how many I shifted up or down (which coming from an XTR mechanical shifter was reaaaaaally annoying). Then add in battery hassles I just don't see the point.

Electronic shifting totally underrated. Set it and forget it. Automatic front derailleur trimming.

Headset routing is a terrible trend too

Hahaha. 5’6” is short? Try 4’9”. I have a Cannondale Quick 2 with an extra small frame & 26 inch wheels. They stopped making it in that size 2012. People often ask why I don’t get a kid’s bike. It’s an insult.

Maybe you can still find an 650B in size extra small that fits well. Don’t be offended by female color schemes though.

@@thenormalberries6767 I'm 5'7 and find 29ers to be awkward. I live in a place with really technical trails and 27.5 gives extra maneuverability. YMMV

My buddy who is 5ft nothing on a good hair day rides one of those awesomer terry's scaled on 24in wheels.

Riders below 5'10 tall look funny on 29'ers. Like clowns in a circus.

And cheap cassettes & chains as well.

My road bike has 3x. Yep, a bit heavier but a good trade when staring up at a massive climb. It doesn’t look “pro” but I don’t give a rip about looking pro. 🙂

When the bike industry has finished selling everyone 1x you can be sure 3x will be the next hot thing.

@@thepandaman i always forget to change out the chain... meh, an 8sp cassette is ~18bucks less if you can stand black.

Yes - the perfect touring set up......

👍

Ha ha, yes, I noticed that too. Yet too many people won't be told that race bikes aren't for them.....

GCN stating how fatter tires, tubeless while weighing more are more aerodynamic is over the top. The gains optimized for an Olympic rider are still marginal. Guess you save the added weight by weight lost in your wallet.

Word!!

Long live 26” !

Yeah great for dirt jump bikes!

In the video that guy later alluded to square taper bbs so I think it’s more of ‘square taper axles are plenty good’. External bbs only arose from the development of larger, stiffer BB axles

Yea UDH is great. Was never a fan of electronic shifting till the new UDH stuff. Plus the derailleur sram makes for the frame is a tank and comes apart like legos. It’s awesome. Di2 sucks though. Outboard BB is my favorite set up.

Consider the Surly Preamble. Steel 1x9, 11-36 with a 40t crank, threaded BB, mechanical disc brakes on QR wheels with 35mm tubed tires, plus more fender and rack mounts than you'll ever need for under $1k.

Easy to maintain usually means having to maintain it more often. Cost effective equals heavier Lightweight hurts cost effective. Making it good for utility adds more weight. Especially bike packing. More expensive too due to all the required accessoires. Lights racks fastening options, fenders. What you speak is impossible. We all need to be aware that everything is an compromise. Just pick the compromise that suits your needs.

@@MementoMorIan mechanical disc brakes need constant attention. 1x9 derailleur needs constant cleaning Yes the work is easy and can be done everywhere. But it would be an lousy commuter bike.

They shouldn’t even be an option on anything save a mountainbike

@1barnet1 Disagree. With 11/12 speeds, you can easily have a good range for road / gravel riding on a 1x system. I get that some people don't want to use them, but for a lot of people a 1x is all they need and they should always have that option.

@@LukeRichardson1981 I am not debating the range. I am debating the massive gaps when you have the needed range

And the downsides of an 2 by system are less of an concern on the road or on gravel roads. And gravelbikes with an 2 by are more easily converted to an roadbike with an simple wheelchange.

Hard disagree. I just did a fully loaded road tour for two weeks in Japan. I have a 36T chainring with a 11-42 cassette. It was all the gearing I needed even with some crazy climbs. Additionally I HATE always switching back and forth between the big and small rings. 1X gives linear gear ratios that require much less thought

Couldn’t disagree more! Death to the rim brake!

Unless you live in the rainy mountains and fjords like me there’s really no need for disc brakes on a road bike. I switched to disc mainly because the weather and terrain here eat rims for breakfast and a wheel set was usually toast after a year or two.

@@ketle369 er du Norsk?

Disc brakes rule! I remember when using rim brakes watching my rims grind down until they split after 12 months when riding on millstone grit in the Peak District in UK. Also great mud catchers.

I ride there too, done exactly that @@stevemartin5448.

I agree, but I don’t think the bike industry does. Their actions indicate they are more interested in appealing to status hunters with deep pockets.

Because this group (and this channel's community) is not representative of the cycling community as a whole. It's a tiny minority that exists as a niche, but does not have the influence to sway the entire industry.

​@@tinglydingleI would rather argue that the group going for the new expensive releqses are the niche group, but they are targeted with lot of money, as companies can sell them all the new gear more easily.

@@tinglydinglei disagree, i believe the majority of people that ride bicycles would rather just ride a simple bike. Most people riding bicycles are not pros. They want something simple

@@torito880 To be blunt, "most people" don't give a shit about bikes, they just buy the cheapest option from Walmart or Halfords. This is an enthusiast community every bit as much as the viewers of GCN Tech, normal people don't care about their frame material, mudguard mounts, electric gears, ratcheting friction shifters, aerodynamics, or tyre clearance, they just want "a bike." The only difference between "us" and "them" is we prefer steel and chrome, and they prefer carbon fibre and titanium. We're a niche, and we shouldn't mistake our preference for simplicity for being a regular consumers: we're the hipsters of the cycling world. It's just that the dentists have more buying power than us, so the industry caters more to them.

Generally tubeless set ups use fatter tires and lower air pressure to achieve greater traction and shock absorption. Fatter tires weigh more and have greater rolling resistance. Not to mention if a tubeless goes bad on the trail it is much harder to fix than just patching a tube. Have you ever seen a guy on the side of the trail trying to stuff a donated tube into a slime filled tire after the bead busted off the rim? I have witnessed it more than once. Its about impossible to re set a tire bead with a hand pump on the trail.

I have VO Curvy bars on my 26” LHT. Bar ends to thumies, and a Brooks Flyer Special. Heavy and comfy.

False. 60% of those gears are duplicate ratios.

Maybe so but on a compact crank set I feel neurotic shifting so much. Going from 52-34 is dramatic and I then have to adjust cassette.With triple I can merely drop from 52 to 42 and pedal blissfully on…..✌️

Thank goodness for eBay!

If I had to delete one on my Hardtail I’d keep the dropper

Disk brakes are so good

@@brian_jake I agree but it's the dismissal of rim brakes by the industry that is unfair

@ebikescrapper3925 true, rim brakes are still relevant especially for commuter and road bikes

​@@brian_jakehonestly, I think hydraulic disc brakes are an order of magnitude safer when battling 2+ ton death machines out on the road. Dead stop within ~15 feet, without cramping my hands. Canti commuting bike = death grip and still takes an eternity to stop.

I agree that rim brakes are still relevant, _but _*_if_* I get disks on my next bike it'll definitely be either mechanical (e.g. Growtac) or hydro-mechanical (e.g JuinTech)

I love clipless pedals. I don’t clip in for my commute. But for long rides clipping in is a big help.

I went that route. The cost to buy some expensive bikes is the same as buying a custom bike. Why spend 7-9k on a bike you can't even pick geometry and characteristics

Lol you payed 450??? 🤣 my shop does it for free. You played yourself.

@@CityNDN Who said I paid $450? Reading comprehension problem?

Absolutely. A professional bike fitting by the Bike Fit Guru changed my cycling life. I would not be riding now if I had not gotten one. Also electronic shifting. I have some physical issues that made it difficult for me to make the large throws with mechanical shifting. The essentially no force push button shifting allows me to ride. Without electronic shifting I would not be able to ride.

But changing a simple inner wire requires 2-3 labor hours

I dont think the cables are visible enough to justify the internal routing. Lugged steel IS the most bike-like bike out there and its not good with internal routing. And lets be honest... Internals are only internal through the frame and are just as visible on the more visible parts.

@@denisrogers4358not necessarily. I see what you are getting at but some companies like Niner really nail the internal routing making the bikes clean AND easy to work on. No crazy cable fishing.

@@denisrogers4358 I'm not an expert with internal mechanical, but I built my own bike from the frame for the first time this year (internally routed w/ di2 hydraulic) and I'd done things like replace worn cables on externally routed frames before, and I found it somewhat easier for me (someone who doesn't work on bikes every single day) to use a cheap magnetic tool to route the internal cables than it was to figure out how long to cut my housing (x7) for brake and shift cable housing. Chasing ferrules under tables after they fall off and roll under a table, crimping stabby cable ends, etc. I've gotten the lengths wrong before, and it can screw up braking or shifting... With the hydro and wireless it was only 2 hydro tube lengths to figure out, and they're much easier to cut than metal-sheathed housing - I could sneak up on the right length. I definitely don't see how changing an inner wire could ever take 2-3 hours, perhaps that's bike shops overcharging. Maybe the first iterations of integrated cockpits were probably over-complicated and difficult, so maybe that's skewing perceptions a bit. I look at systems like Allied, No22, the new Ritchey system, and they're pretty well thought out.

Actually I think wrapping your cables under your bar tape is over-rated. Now there is no big lump under my bar tape. My tiny hands can grab the bar so much easier. So many more hand positions now. My Yokozuna cable sits perfectly under my bars and never moves or bangs around. I can take the entire brake lever AND cable off without touching the bar tape. AND I get to admire those beautiful cables. (Form follows function in my world).

It's always seemed to me that pressfit bottom brackets were created just so carbon frames could be made cheaper and easier. No more gluing in an aluminum threaded 'pipe' to accept the threaded bb, just drill a big hole in the frame and ship it. No performance improvement at all, just cheaper and noisy.

Sven says: Still Gravelling on a fixed gear bike at 63 yrs young is: Madness, yes.... but SUPER FUN!!

As someone who lives in hilly Seattle, I could never 😂

absolutely agree, i pass so many roadies looking at their latest groupset wondering why it’s not working. too many gears man!

@@kevinkace I've heard single-speeds are quite common in Seattle, from a friend who used to live there. I never understood why until I tried climbing hills on a fixed gear. I wouldn't want to do that every day, but it's a lot less bad than I expected.

@@cumpootuhruser9355 yeah that's true, there are a lot of fixed gear around here. I actually must admit I've never tried one.

Agreed. I checked it out and went "nope...I'd have to do it weekly". I would consider it for my race bike, since that lives on the trainer and only goes outside in nice weather. That said...I have considered an ultrasonic cleaner. Then apply my usual wet lube.

Yes, I can think of a well known channel who keep pushing waxing chains constantly.......

@@brannmacfinnchad9056 Have several chains, and do them all at once.

That rep looks small and light. I don't get flats(knock on wood) either-I'm 108lbs now. I wonder if lighter riders just don't experience the same degree of problems with tires/inner tubes. Now I'm riding 22lbs on my front Rene Herse Hill Switchback TC 48mm extra light slick tire, and extra light butyl inner-tube. 24 lbs on the rear.

@@stevenr5149I’d agree that being smaller helps in that department. I’m 150lb and my larger friends do seem to pinch flat more

Indeed - I (Dan) started Forager so you could say I’m a “rep” :)

@@stevenr5149Switch to high-end 23mm sew-ups, and you'll learn to _enjoy_ flats as most do. 😏 (Currently 140lbs but worried now that I've exhausted my stash of fresh tires.)