In case anyone asks, "hey, what about the area to the north?" It's all snow, baby. Thanks papa Morgoth.

It so clear what happened do Dark Lands.. Ungoliant fled there, infested the island with giant spiders and thousands of years later, those lands became known as Australia.

If ever there were a human whom we needed to live forever, or at least 120-130 years, it would have been Tolkien. Imagine the additional stories and details of Middle Earth he would’ve brought to life for us.

If the dark land is Australia then it makes sense that the huge nightmare fuel spider went there

You’re so good at making videos about things that have not really been talked about in the UKposts sphere. You keep coming with gems. Lord of the Rings is never ending content lol

I am a big geography fan in general and tolkien's world is no exception, I always think about what is there or what is here, who lives there, what lives there, and it is unfortunate that we know less and less about the world once you reach a certain point. of course the fan maps are not canon but I still think they are good maps, mostly because the lands beyond what we usually see are pretty open and a blank slate for people to come up with ideas on how to use the land in order to make fan maps or even things like game maps for the world where they create new stuff in the previously unused lands. sure, we know things like the avari and four dwarven clans living in the east, but we don't actually know their fate or if they are still around, especially the avari. with the dwarves we did get the war of the dwarves and orcs and they still say the seven dwarven clans, so they seem to still be around, but the avari could have been killed by the easterlings because elves often live in the woods and sauron/easterlings probably wanted to destroy the forest and all the elves in it anyways because they are the bad guys who tear down forests to fuel their industry. as for the south, we know there were other black numenorean colonies along the coast to the further south, but aside from the mumakil elephants that the haradrim use and that we know there is a deep jungle far south, we know very little about the place. and not to mention, the other continents of the world that may or may not exist, we know even less. were there prosperous civilizations of men in these places, or were they more primitive and nomadic? were there even men at all? if not, then what was there? etc. ugh, there are just so many questions to ask, and I will basically get no definite answers for it, but the point is, the world tolkien has created is far more grand than we give it credit for, and that is only the stuff we know a lot of, yet alone everything else. also, the fact that we simply call the eastern people "easterlings" and with the exception of certain groups like the wainriders and balchoth, we don't know the possibly many different groups of easterlings. same pretty much goes for the haradrim.

I'm fascinated by worldbuilding and sub-creation within Tolkien's world, and the videos on this channel really fuel that fire in me! Especially the ones about lesser know things and obscure references. Good work, love it!

My fan theory - the dark land is the domain of Shelob-like giant spiders descended from Ungoliant, and is possibly ruled by Ungoliant herself (assuming she didn't really eat herself) Sauron stays the hell away from the place because it scares even him!

There is a few things not mentioned in this video that we can say about these lands in the Third Age from most certain to least certain: 1. There are nomadic tribes directly to the east of the Sea of Rhun. 2. There's the wild white Kine of Araw, a type of Oxen that likely lives directly east of the Sea of Rhun. 3. At the start of the Third Age, Eru enclosed Arda with a sea and substituted Valinor with new lands (a proto-North and South America?). 4. The Blue Wizards entered these lands in the Second Age. It is unknown if they survived to the end of the Third Age. 5. Morgoth Worship was practiced in some parts of these lands. There might have been some adapted version of this promoted by Sauron as well. 6. There are additional unknown kingdoms of men to the south and east. Some of these people appeared at the battle of the Pelinor as vassals of Sauron like the short axe-wielding men and the dark-skinned men believed to be from 'South Harad.' Great roads lead east from Mordor. It can be speculated that his vassal territories are vast, stretching far to the east and south. 7. Aragorn and Saruman visited these lands to the east. Gandalf, Aragorn, and to some minor extent Smeagol visited the lands to the south. It is likely that Denathor also knew much of these lands and sent emissaries abroad. 8. There are stone cities of men to the south. 9. There is one or more sources of Mithril in the east. It is likely these are Dwarven sources. By the end of the Third Age, these sources appear to have either dried up and are no longer actively mined or traded abroad. This lines up with the accounts of the issues faced by the eastern dwarves. 10. There are one or more domains of Black Numenoreans to the south. These are Numenorian settlements established before the end of the Second Age. Some of these kingdoms are likely overrun or have otherwise blended with non-Numenorean men by the end of the Third Age. One or more of the Nazgul are likely from these kingdoms. 11. There are four tribes of Dwarves in the east. How many strongholds these dwarves operated is unknown. All we know is that by the end of the Third Age, the dwarves were under pressure from conflicts, with some fleeing west. 12. There are forests in the deep south of Harad, possibly inhabited by Ape-men (gorillas?). 13. Sauron had additional domains or fortresses he directly ruled in the east. This is mentioned in an offhand passage by Tolkien. What these bases of Sauron's power looked like, when he ruled these lands, and what the nature of this rule looked like is unknown. It's likely these were primarily mannish realms that Sauron used as a base of power before returning to Dol Guldor to search for the Ring. 14. The Avari elves are a branch of elves that inhabited the East. Their numbers and strongholds are unknown. 15. Somewhere in the east is likely the remains of Utmno. Tolkien mentions that the deepest pits of Utmno survived the assault by the Valor. These are likely buried deep underground or perhaps beneath some body of water. There may be something like the equivalent of the underdeeps of Moria out there where nameless things or other creatures of Morgoth exist. 16. Sauron probably used local Mannish servants plus some level of magical control to ensnare the minds of Eastern rulers. Saruman copied Sauron in all things, and Grema Wormtongue's control of Theoden was likely an imitation of what Sauron was doing with nearby mannish realms. I have a feeling that combating this control was one of the chief roles of the Blue Wizards during the Second Age. 17. The lands to the east and south roughly mirror Earth by the end of the Third Age. We see this in geography (Eurasian steppe in Rhun), human ethnography (Southrons), and naming (Khan = Turkish). Bilbo's "Last Desert" is probably a cryptic reference to a proto-Gobi Desert.

Not sure if you’ve come across this but there’s an amazing fanfiction known as the Lost Tales of Harad that explores and world builds in Harad in a Tolkienesque way. They’ve created an interesting map of Harad as well.

So few mentions of Dor-Winiön, the human kingdom that bordered the sea of Rhûn, their wine was supposedly the most potent, the stuff they were drinking in The Hobbit were barrels floated down the anduin and returned to the kingdom.

A lot of people miss the point, which you make, which is that Middle-Earth is actually supposed to be OUR world, our real Earth, albeit about 12,000 years ago, before massive geological changes, which is why it looks different now. In an interview with Tolkien, the interviewer placed Mordor at about the present day Balkans, and Tolkien agreed. Interestingly, this would put the end of the events of the novels at just before the real-world Younger Dryas event.

There be dragons, surely.

For some extra context it widely accepted that Mordor, the Sea of Ruhn, and Ruhn itself are the dried up lake bed of the Sea of Helcar.

I do enjoy looking at a good map (or few maps) and seeing how things unfold on them. Thanks!

Excellent vid, one of the few I’m pausing and re-listening while looking at the screen.

There’s a few great tolkien content creators but this guy 👆 don’t miss

I always took the maps to be “in-world,” meaning cartographers actually mapped these out, with the further areas using a lot of guesswork and hear say, much like real world historical maps.

One of the best videos from such a firm skeptic as Darth Gandalf! 7:00 I just want to point out, that while Wild Wood is an extremely cool name, I remember reading somewhere that it might not be an actual wood, rather the description of general woodlands in early Middle-earth.

I think the explanation (or at least the excuse) for the lack of knowledge available on the rest of the world is because the writing is supposed to be a translation of books written by in-universe characters, and so naturally just like in our own history, they would know very little of places distant from them (other than small snippets of hearsay) until much later in time (i.e. our own Age of Exploration and the Early Modern Era). Look at really old maps of our world, and writings like those of Herodotus for a comparative example.

Look at late medieval maps, and you can see things that look like transitional stages between Arda and the current world.

Great work DG. You would have to be very pleased with your direction moving forward. Always excited to see/hear your next works. Keep up the great effort! Cheers from down under Ronald & Stavvy

For me, the sign of a well-made video is one that leaves me nodding along to the reasoning behind explanations and just as importantly not leaving me with any questions to ask or worthwhile comments to make. This has been most true of late. The thing is, I like asking questions and making comments, but I cannot so I will not. 😊😊😊❤❤❤😊😊😊

The road goes ever on...

Oh this is gonna be good. Always have had questions of this topic

Cool video with some recap on maps. I remember that in The Lord of the Rings it was said that the attack on Minas Tirith would be only the first attack of many and that there would come many more armies from distant lands. So I guess Tolkien thought of quite a large eastern part of middle earth.

I've never really thought about it before but it must have been very sad for those Dunedain explorers to finally catch sight of land only to realise it is the eastern tip of Middle Earth.

YES, FINALLY SOMEONE MADE A VIDEO ABOUT IT, thank you man, thank you

Imagine how weird it would be for a world to go from being flat to being round overnight for the people living there.

I know its not canon but I do like the idea of CS Lewis Narnia being across the ocean from Middle Earth. The geography certainly matches & since Valinor was removed who’s to say that there’s no replacement continent with its own seperate myths & legends. Its entirely apt considering the great friendship between the two authors.

Thanks for this video. I remember the map from the role playing board game some 30 years ago, and i wondered why it is never mentioned. Now i get it is not kanon, even though it seemed very logical to me at that time.

But what people have to understand about world building is that the outdated maps aren't always "accurate." Tolkien said he started with a map. That map, along with the following, were subject to change. But there's no knowing.

3:35 I've always thought of the Dark Lands as Madagascar on steroids!!

At 10:40 It was said that when sailors reported back from these new lands they said “they could still die there”. Isn’t it the case that non elven races who travel to the undying lands still died to begin with? Tolkien describes it as a person rapidly aging and dying in peace when Frodo goes there to be healed and given rest for his part in the War of the Ring. It was just a point I was confused on.

Could you do a deep dive of the role-playing map?

This was fun. Thanks

Now that I'm older, one thing I noticed about the middle earth map is that Mirkwood shouldn't exist. The mountains in front of it would cast such a large rain shadow that whole area should be a desert.

the last desert, with the wild wereworms

I am always willing to defend Fonstad's placement of the Sea of Helcar at the point where Morder would be later, even after History of Middle Earth. Simply because it is the place that fits best with all that Tolkien has written. If it didn't exist there, there would be hardly any places to put it. Personally I don't think that Tolkien gave the location of the Sea much thought. Certainly not when he wrote the passages that would contradict Fonstad's version. So it's basically choosing which of Tolkien's contradiction you would accept. Personally, I will stick with Fonstad's version.

The worst thing about the Lotr franchise: it's never going to progress beyond what Tolkien had already written 😢

This 00:01 Map is kinda looks like map of Mount and Blade Warband lol

*Middle Earth Roleplaying* came up with lots of things to fill the rest of the continent. It was lots of fun.

Since Tolkien insisted that Ardur is in fact Earth, The Dark Lands seem to be Africa, and their name simply refers to a trend during Tolkien's day of referring to Africa as 'The Dark Continent', partly inspired by Conrad's 'Heart of Darkness', partly inspired by Africa's vast and unexplored dense equitorial jungles, and partly in a very passé way to refer to the races of people who lived there. To me, on Tolkien's maps, The Dark Lands look like a scaled up Madagascar, blown up in size until its northeastern peninsula meets the Horn of Africa and the southern tip of Arabia. However, the shape is also reminscent of Lemuria, a theorised lost continent that served as a land bridge between the Indian subcontinent and East Africa, which was used as an explanation before the discovery of plate tectonics as to how species made it across the Indian Ocean. Remember, Tolkien was writing before the discovery of plate tectonics and accurate bathymetric mapping of the Indian Ocean floor, so the idea of whole continents sinking and becoming lost, like Lemuria, wasn't a crackpot theory but mainstream scientific concensus. If indeed Tolkien imagined Ardur to be Earth in an ancient age, then the common understanding of the day would posit Lemuria at that time was still above the waves having not yet sunk into the crust.

Wow, now I feel better about my world sketches; if Tolkien was that... simplistic? with his!

I enjoyed this quite a bit

Tolkien may have been a genius but he was also just a man. Creating an entire universe is hard work

really good video thanks cheers from Canada. (Forcehl)

my theory is that the darklands became australia. Would explain the ridiculous size of the spiders there. Thanks a lot ungoliant

“The end (of Main Street) is just the beginning again.” - Pleasantville (1998)

Just imagine, if Tolkien lived 20 years longer and created a second Silmarillion, filling the next 3000 years after the Return of the King with a similar fine mixture of myth and history. The rise of the grand joined Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor, its wars with Harad and the Easterlings, expeditions to the farthest rims of the Middle-Earth, long-ruined Utumno, desolate and forgotten Angband, dragon skeletons of the size of a city, lost tribes descendant from the Numenorian colonies. Finding the lost Silmarils. And Dagor Dagorath.

As someone who has only read the LOTR trilogy and the Hobbit, this made zero sense to me but had me completely intrigued

David Day's map is perfect simply because the shape of these unknown lands is nothing more than speculation. His looks similar to real maps made before the age of discovery.

1:23 I always thought the Middle Earth Role Playing map was so cool beyond words. I used to just gaze at it and use my imagination on it. 👍💪

I always wonder about what lies beyond the maps described in the Hyborian age in Conan lore.

1:22 I have a very irrational hatred of maps that imitate or look like this one. One thing I love about most Middle-earth maps is that the coastlines look nice. To then see those other maps like this actually used-or worse, even in replacement of the -in my opinion- objectively better maps in the case of the Realms in Exile mod for Crusader Kings III-immediately turns me away.

That MERP map you showed was quite a bit different from the one in the playbooks back when MERP was initially released in the '80s.

Iron Crown Enterprises made a great map for the dark lands. Its a true work of art.

Good, rigorous work!

Curious name on that first map, the Lands of the Sun, given the Sun wouldn't show up for thousands of years.

Just found ur channel, that name made me subscribe

The sea could have transformed into a salt flat.

I find the distant lands so interesting and despite not being cannon i think the lotr mod for Minecraft has my favourite exploration of those lands

Lotro music in the background 😊 Rohan!

I love how people come up with those crazy theories. They are often very entertaining. Thing is, the truth about 'unknown' places and locations mentioned vaguely or with similar names could be extremely simple - an author changed it during the creation process and reused the names or ideas. Grey Mountains on Ambarkanta could be a prototype for the known Grey Mountains. I create few worlds in my life. And although they were never as detailed as Tolkien's, the process of creation is not always as straightforward as it seems like. Landmasses change, names are getting updated, drafts are being made. The whole concept of making multiple Ambarkanta maps supports the theory, that sometimes a name is just a 'in-progress' name and it doesn't refer to anything specific at that point.

Remember places didnt exist on maps till they were explored. Perhaps places exist in Lord of the rings that haven't been found

Wait wait wait what? My copy of Silmarillion (cca 2002 edition) has a well-drawn map of the whole world at the beginning, why is it not mentioned anywhere and unfindable on internet?! Is that some special map that was lost in time or was that fan-fiction by the publisher this whole time?!

It would appear the internet has created an appetite for instant knowledge of the most trivial sort, creating users whom always want a little more. It's amazing the depth Tolkien went to as well as a testament to his creative powers. This also fuels this desire to know more, surely there's more? On a side note I see reactors to older movies whom always appear surprised when the movie quickly ends after the climax/twist/resolution. They expect it to go on and it could be said they constantly ask questions instead of watch and put it together themselves from the information given. Story telling is the art of embellishment and detail. Skip to the end, life is short and there's just so damn much out there now.

I have to add a little note here... Although not cannon, a team of guys (Thomas Morwinsky, Stéphane Hoerlé, Gabriele Quaglia, Oliver Schick and Christian Schröder) in Other Minds magazine ("Mapping Arda", Issue 1, July 2007) published an article where they "devised" their own view of the shapping of Middle-Earth, throughout its different ages. I must say that it is quite interesting to read and that you might take a look at it...

This is one of those things where I really want to know more but I also appreciate the mystery of the unknowns. Oh if only Tolkien had more time!

Clearly there is the mountains of wind in the east, and the taurthrim and Morewaith in the south

I always like to think of thr dominant tribes of Harad coalescing into what we knew of as Sheba, and of course later the Ethiopian empire.

I have the Tolkein Atlas. I believe it discusses this

Great video - I've been wondering what your take would be on what the world map outside of the westlands looks like. I'll note that the Orocarni get one line in the Silmarillion, and find it somewhat curious that this concept from so early as the Ambarkanta maps managed to stick around but get so little attention late in the development. The Gates of Morning also get referenced once in the Akallabeth, an idea left over from the Book of Lost Tales era. Can you maybe comment on that?

Suppose Tolkien translated the Red Book without any maps, and without reliable distance conversions. How would you fit the legendarium on our Earth, perhaps before the Würm glaciation?

The blackwood aka Eryn Vorn is never brought up...why? Is their any info about it...

Wish books and films could explore these other lands.

I was always of the impression that east of middle earth was the land of Narnia (as Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends, it may be entirely possible).

I love this video

The lord of the rings mod for minecraft has cool concepts but non canon for Rhun and Harad along with a lot of lore.

We actually do know that the mountains of the wind are on the western border of Hildorien, and according to the tale of adanel Nuin had to cross through mountains into the Vale of Murmenalda to find the sleeping humans

So the Walls of the Sun were Middle-Earth's backrooms.

What lies beyond the edge of the map? Its just a large fence, guarded by a mean warg.

I thought the area beyond the map was just a large table, a few tokens, some dice, snacks, and books!

In that Middle Earth map at 1:22 is that a country of Tyranids beneath the Empire of Urd?

I think the best version is the CK3 mod map, it just looks great and is quite detailed

What if All the elves staid in the east and migrated with men to explore middle earth

I wonder if it's a coincidence that Kalorme sounds like Calormen, from Narnia

Next :a video on Hildorien

Beyond the map lies the realm of Fanfiction.

Amazon could've so easily centred their new series on these completely unexplored worlds without pissing off the entire fandom with lazy shit that messes up all the canonical stuff every LOTR knows already about the main regions in the Second Age. Harad and Rhun and Khand are entirely unexplored and clearly hinting towards non-European equivalents of Africa, Russia and Central Asia. I mean the Numenorian colonisation of Harad's coastline would be a perfect way to also deal with the subject of diversified/modern casting. Harad and Rhun and Khand and also what we already know of the Easterlings are perfect ground for a more in-depth worldbuilding that can flesh them out past some orientalist stereotypes.

To the east is the a small yellow ork known as chorks and to the south are tall stone age orks called blorks.

I know what lies beyond..! The edge of the paper probably

I like how the MURP map has the island of Hârn right in the middle

I kinda like the lack of a full canon world map. The idea that the War of the Last Alliance and the War of the Ring were just regional conflicts and there's a much bigger world out there is fascinating. Looking at a map of Middle Earth and wondering what exists beyond it... It makes you feel like a citizen of ancient Rome hearing the tales of Julius Caesar leading his armies north to the cold and mysterious island of Britain, facing off against towering barbarians wearing the pelts of monsters. Or hearing the terrifying fate of Crassus as he attempted to lead a conquest east to Parthia and the lands beyond. You would know there's some kind of powerful and alien nation to the far east because of trade along the silk road, but no one really knows much about it. And what lands might lay beyond the deserts south of Egypt and Carthage? The vikings found Iceland, Greenland, and North America basically by accident and a Spanish attempt to explore north of the Aztec territory ended in disaster when the expedition team made landfall on the Florida peninsula instead of on the Texas coastline. If those explorers had survived, imagine the stories they would bring back to Spain. There would definitely be horrifying tales about swamps filled with giant man-eating fish-lizards.

Not a particularly strong point to add, but Ungoliant being in the Dark Lands would also justify them being called the Dark Lands.

Considering the history and level of detail that Tolkien put into the rest of his worldbuilding it is really infuriating that we got a map that looks only half finished with vague descriptions of the lands that lie beyond. Tolkien's work is a masterpiece but if any change was to be made to it then it should be the addition of a complete map and associated lore.

Had the Dunedain been able to reach Valinor, they still would have died there.

the answer is easy and quite elementary...what lies beyond the map is....the top of the table (or wood planks) where the map is placed

I wonder when the last contact between elves and men would have taken place, particularly the Greenwood elves and the men of Dale and Greater Gondor. Near the end of the 4th age? Well into the 5th age?

Mtns could have became hills. Nature or dwarves effecting the landscape.