Why 879 Men for 45 Tigers?
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The authorized strength of a Heavy Tank Battalion (Schwere Panzer-Abteilung) was 45 Tigers, yet such a unit also around 879 men assigned. The question is, why so many men for just 45 tanks? In this video we look at the organization of a Tiger Battalion based on German Tables of Organization and Equipment (TOE) or as the Germans called them Kriegsstärkenachweisungen (KStN).
Special thanks to Leo Niehorster.
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» SOURCES «
Schneider, Wolfgang; Köhler, Frank: Tiger im Kampf. Band III. Schneider Armour Research. Verlag Wolfgang Schneider: Uelzen, Germany, 2013.
Fletcher, David; Willey, David; Hayton, Mike; Gibb, Mike; Hayton, Darren, Vase, Stevan; Schofield, David: Tiger Tank. Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger I Ausf. E (SdKfz 181). Haynes Publishing: Somerset, UK, 2017 (2011).
Niehorster, Leo W. G.: German World War II Organizational Series. Volume 1/I: Mechanized Army and Waffen-SS Units (1st September 1939). Dr. Leo W.G. Niehorster: Hannover, Germany, 1990 (1988).
Spielberger, Walter J.; Doyle, Hilary L.: Panzer V Panther und seine Abarten. Motorbuch Verlag: Gerlingen, Germany, 2010.
Friedli, Lukas: Repairing the Panzers. German Tank Maintenance in World War 2. Volume 1. Panzerwrecks: Sussex, UK, 2013 (2011).
Wilbeck, Christopher W.: Sledgehammers. Strengths and Flaws of Tiger Tank Battalions in World War II. The Aberjona Press: Bedford, PA, USA, 2004.
#Sponsored #ad #WorldOfTanks
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
Sponsored by World of Tanks! Register here ► tanks.ly/37OuQnT to receive a Tier V Premium Tank Matilda Black Prince, 7 days Premium Access, 1 Garage Slot, a 100 % Trained Crew, 2 Rental Tanks for 10 Battles each, namely the famous Tiger 131 and the Sherman Firefly with the code FIREAWAY. Applicable to new users only. Also be sure to check out virtual Tankfest Stream here: tanks.ly/3dojE2z > 1:09 - I said 14 Tigers but show 12 Tigers, I forgot to show the 2 Tigers of the Leader Section of each Platoon. So 14 is correct. (thx to mensch1066) 4:14 - I said & wrote 32 Tigers, yet it should be 42 Tigers, since 3 times 14 is 42 Tigers. (thx to mensch1066)
@praevasc4299 3 роки тому
I wonder when will you be sponsored by that much more realistic other tank simulation game...
@adamabele785 3 роки тому
Die Logistik-Sektion war für gewöhnlich anderswo stationiert als die Panzerbataillione. Die Panzer waren dauernd woanders, während die Nachschub- und Stabseinheiten nur alle paar Tage oder entsprechend der Entwicklung die Stellung wechselten. Somit brauchen diese Einheiten selber wieder einen Stab, Fahrezeuge, Flugabwehr und eigene Reparatureinheiten etc. Die Aufklärer waren auf der Suche nach geeigneten Stellungen, markierten diese für die nachfolgenden Einheiten, verzeichneten sie in Karten und gaben die Standorte an die Pioniere und die Stabseinheiten weiter. Die Pioniere z. B. bauten provisorische Brücken und Straßen, legten Schneisen durch Wälder und stellten Wegmarkierungen auf, somit brauchten diese wieder eigene Fahrzeuge und eigene Reparatureinheiten, die Bergeeinheiten dienten dazu Fahrzeuge und Personen aus der Kampfzone herauszubringen oder aus Gräben, Flussbetten etc zu befreien. Häufig wurden diese unterhaltenden Einheiten von anderen Einheiten mitbenutzt z. B. wurden damit, Artillerie, Infantrie oder Flugabwehrstellungen vor Ort versorgt, die ansonsten unter eigenem Kommando standen, aber räumlich in der Nähe waren (und umgekehrt). Und diese Personalstärke war immer so gerechnet, dass Personen beurlaubt sind, krank oder verwundet sind, oder schlafen müssen oder irgendwelches Training oder Schulungen machen oder dass welche zeitweise anderswohin versetzt werden. Die Stabs- und Logistikeinheiten mussten sich ggf auch selbst verteidigen können, hatten also auch Gewehre und Maschinengewehre und sie haben auch rund um die Uhr arbeiten müssen. Z. B. hat man versucht Reparaturen so weit möglich über Nacht fertig zu stellen, damit das Material am nächsten Tag wieder einsatzbereit ist. Truppen wurden über Nacht mit Essen, Treibstoff und Munition versorgt, wenn der Transport bei Tag zu gefährlich war. Ein Koch oder Schuhmacher musste also auch Wache schieben oder Flieger abwehren etc.
@xirenzhang9126 3 роки тому
Praevasc otherwise known as the boring coin flipping game where heads is one shot kill and the tails is ricoshet
@creativityfails1 3 роки тому
@@praevasc4299 Ah yes the other tank game that claims to be realistic and a simulator when tanks magically repair themselves, clip through terrain, and observe questionable ricochets.
@praevasc4299 3 роки тому
@@creativityfails1 Yeah, but still more realistic than WoT with its HP bar and random shot dispersion, and completely fictional ammo types, and no simulation of internal damage mechanics. ;)
@looinrims 3 роки тому
“We are missing 439 men” I feel like this was a common saying after 1942
@Vidhur 3 роки тому
Painfully accurate...
@isaiahcampbell488 3 роки тому
Oof, and hearted as well!
@kairos1091 3 роки тому
Imagine being the designated shoemaker in the Wehrmacht's Schwere Panzerabteilung. Like someone asks you what you did in the war, and you can say both 'I was in the heavy tank battalion, and I was the shoemaker' .
@talknight2 3 роки тому
The army marches on the soles of its boots! A shoemaker would be as popular as the medics when things got rough.
@princeofcupspoc9073 3 роки тому
Not to mention the bakers and butchers, grinding up pigs into sausages.
@MrSqu1nty 3 роки тому
Holy balls, being responsible for that much trenchfoot mitigation and sweat damage, let alone mere marching for ungodly miles? Yeah, he's a lot of peoples hero.
@juliancate7089 3 роки тому
Yep. Important job. I think the U.S. Army had a better system of dealing with uniform repair and salvage - which not only saves a LOT of money, but keeps vital equipment readily available and close to the front - by organizing all the relevant people and skills into one unit, rather than dispersing cobblers and tailors out to every unit in the army.
@joseph1150 3 роки тому
@@juliancate7089 One of my former coworkers who served in the Korean War said that the US army had 2 sizes in uniforms and boots: Too Small and Too Large. I have a feeling he would have liked a tailor.
@ragequitchan5981 3 роки тому
how do you fit 19.5 men inside a tiger?
@Erik_Arnqvist 3 роки тому
With difficulty
@mexicoball2529 3 роки тому
Its not a problem when the crew is 16 years old.
@Lejdorf 3 роки тому
That's why you need supply battalion equipped with hacksaws
@ally_crawford 3 роки тому
A lot of scratching
@iuliuglad6813 3 роки тому
U put em on the tank as additional armour
@robincoppel9142 3 роки тому
"Heavy Kitty Battalion" I'm going to call my armored units that when I play HOI IV from now on.
@x7731 3 роки тому
And I’m gonna call my super heavy tank divisions “Garfield divisions”
@sld1776 3 роки тому
I call my 40-width, 20-infantry battalion divisions "Burrogrenadiers".
@randomnepali7772 3 роки тому
@@x7731 "I chug oil Jon, it's what I do."
@podemosurss8316 3 роки тому
@@sld1776 XD Burro means donkey, so you should use that name for cavalry...
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
> 1:09 - I said 14 Tigers but show 12 Tigers, I forgot to show the 2 Tigers of the Leader Section of each Platoon. So 14 is correct. (thx to mensch1066) 4:14 - I said & wrote 32 Tigers, yet it should be 42 Tigers, since 3 times 14 is 42 Tigers. (thx to mensch1066)
@garank4971 3 роки тому
Noooooooooo ;)
@kleinerPanzer 3 роки тому
6:50 - 23 is said and written for the men in the Supply Train, yet the graphic shows 25 men
@imperatorecho9527 3 роки тому
this reply was sent a day before the video
@DiscombobulatingName 2 роки тому
As someone who has spent some time in the military, I was honestly more impressed that each tiger only had an average of 20 men behind it.
@Sea-zu4bj 3 роки тому
History channels are a goldmine for free world of tanks and warthunder codes
@ricky7426 3 роки тому
warthunder not so much gajin is fucking cheap you know
@blitz2973 3 роки тому
@@ricky7426 what
@staliniumprojectile 3 роки тому
aren't those registration codes, where you have to register a new account in order to use the code, and get nothing but a useless lowtier tank and some premium currency, hence it's totally useless if you already have an account? correct me if im wrong please.
@glorvalmacglorvas6082 3 роки тому
@@staliniumprojectile /In the past/ this is what I found out all the time, I do not know if its still the case but it was a couple years ago at least.
@ricky7426 3 роки тому
@@blitz2973 the english is quite lackluster i see
@MichaelWarman 3 роки тому
The hoops you have to jump through to have a sponsor on here are outrageous when films and TV can just drop branded goods into the hands of the star, and newspapers can write 'news' stories about how great the advertisers product is 🙄
@lycossurfer8851 3 роки тому
Now you see why they had the height requirement. Chieftains need not apply
@axeavier 3 роки тому
what hoops in particular?
@shingshongshamalama 3 роки тому
That's because TV networks are gigantic corporations with corporate lawyer divisions who arrange that shit for them.
@SilvaDreams 3 роки тому
Yeah but no one pays attention to commercials even on TV or in papers.
@tokencivilian8507 3 роки тому
When I was younger, I always was amazed at how low the "Tooth" to "Tail" ratio was in the military. But, as one gets to know about logistics and what it takes to keep people and equipment supplied & maintain in the field, having about 1/4 of the battalion as fighting crews seems quite reasonable. Plus I'd say the engineers and AA units within also qualify as fighting men, even if not tank crew, which would push that fraction higher. An interesting tidbit on the tail side of things - how many of those 879 or so were cooks? How many did it take to get hot chow out to the rest?
@KaDaJxClonE 3 роки тому
US currently maintains a minimum of 7:1 ratio of support personnel to combat arms personnel. Combat arms is a large field and some units are their own suppliers, so the math is all kinds of stupid.
@matthiuskoenig3378 3 роки тому
@@KaDaJxClonE in ww2 it was 11:1, if i remember correctly.
@looinrims 3 роки тому
In Stalingrad? You only needed 1 cook
@shady83 2 роки тому
@@KaDaJxClonE sometimes the difference is only on paper, what jobs count as "attached from" or "attached to". As I get older and reflect on the military I'm beginning to think attachments should be re-cap badged and built into the fighting unit as much as possible so I like this formation it counts the fighting & support together as they should be anyway. In the UK Royal Marines provide their own chefs and clerks from the same fighting men while British Army infantry put up with spoiled REMFS/POGS who dont have to fight or even train to the same standard. It's bad for morale and cohesion. As the grunts get older and miss promotion, they should be retrained for the support roles in their own unit giving them a better chance in civvy life and make the fighting unit more coherent, instead of a whole shitload of barely trained teenagers from all different Corps & schools and expect them to work together as if by magic.
@willus567 3 роки тому
7:30 Medical sections are always small but they will be specialised they arent the guys putting on bandages but rather operating or evacuating
@jessealexander2695 3 роки тому
0:30 I very much like the 0.53 man symbol!
@wraithcadmus 3 роки тому
Don't talk to us or our son ever again.
@IQsveen 3 роки тому
9:09 "Remember; 45 Kitties are very thirsty, and milk doesn't always cut it" 😂 😂
@olofbooij8703 3 роки тому
Germany around 1943: "Why 879 Men for 45 Tigers?" Germany at the end of the war: "Why 237 Civilians for 2 destroyed Panthers?"
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
did not get that
@vexintersect1312 3 роки тому
@@andrebas1124 hypothetically in the battle of berlin, you could see 200 civilains organizing panthers that cant move bc they dont have oil or a functioning engine.
@adampodlewski5140 3 роки тому
@@andrebas1124 The joke should be like: "I did not get it" "Them neither"
@jemb67 3 роки тому
I thought that was a comment on how many of the educated, skilled workforce you need to build these (& ferry them to their bases, etc.). Another one for economic games.
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
I did not get it after comments above
@MightyTiki 3 роки тому
Unless you have served in a line unit, I don’t think most civilians understand that without combat support and combat service support personnel, a combat unit can not operate or function. As a young grunt, I had a very narrow minded view of the military and saw my world as “grunts”and “grunt support”. It didn’t take long to figure out that it takes of team of dedicated professionals to achieve mission success whether it was in garrison or in actual combat. I appreciate you taking the time to conduct the research and back it up with credible sources without bias. Keep it up 👍
@nottoday3817 3 роки тому
I'm currently studying and practicing aircraft engineering. And yes, logistics is a freaking nasty woman. You might be the bravest and strongest man in the world, but don't keep her in check and you'll lose your house and/or life. I was an intern at an airport once and man, the logistics were crazy. (I know because they asked us to creat a model for one). Like not only do you need to say how many firetrucks you manage, but the exact positioning of the fire station in order to: 1. Reach any point on the perimeter of the airport in less than 2 minutes 2. Be close to facilities (water, gas, electricity etc.) 3. Not disturb air traffic. And this is one of the easier tasks regarding logistics
@MightyTiki 3 роки тому
Not Today most jobs in the military has nothing to do with direct action or combat. I can’t recall off the top of my head but it’s fair to say that for every person who went outside the wire, there was something like 15 to 20 people who did not. Likewise, not everyone who physically went into the red zone had a direct combat role (medics, truck drivers, military police, etc.). In regards to logistics and supply, I was reminded several times by supply: “try fighting without us.”
@2adamast 3 роки тому
Parkinson understood that by nature army units support grow independently of the actual changes in combat units size.
@Iason29 3 роки тому
Simple answer, cause Tigers need constant taming and care. You do not want them eating the wrong people.
@talknight2 3 роки тому
As a veteran I highly doubt most of these units ever had anywhere near the official staff numbers. My artillery unit joined combat with 40-50% manpower. We often didn't even have enough people to crew all the guns at the same time.
@kaneo1 3 роки тому
13:02 He mentions they often had far fewer men.
@INSANESUICIDE 3 роки тому
That is my experience as well, then again I was in the Ukrainian army in a "territorial defence unit" aka as militia absorbed by the army, so the while eastern european post soviet bundle of issues was common. Where did you serve and with whom?
@MightyTiki 3 роки тому
During my deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq (2002-2010) my units would increase and exceed the number of personnel assigned to the modified table of organization and equipment (MTO&E) starting about 6-months prior to the deployment since not everyone would physically deploy downrange. There was always a rear detachment (rear D) that would stay behind to conduct administrative actions, help with the family readiness group (FRG) and help facilitate replacements and incoming personnel to the unit. I cannot recall a time when we were drastically under strength and no longer combat effective.
@INSANESUICIDE 3 роки тому
@@gracchus7782 oversimplification, hyperbole for comedic/sarcastic purpose, or something else?
@INSANESUICIDE 3 роки тому
@@MightyTiki then again the military population and economy of Afghanistan vs US is incomparable, the situation of ww2 is closer to Afghanistan attacking the US the Soviet Union as well as other minor nations around them, and atop of that doing shockingly well for several years
@GenMaj_Knight 3 роки тому
looking at the title, im either thinking I know the exact answer or I have no idea whatsoever.
@Chuckinca 3 роки тому
I was in a US Army Recon Cav Squadron (battalion) near the Fulda Gap in West Germany in the 60's. We had about 700 troops and 27 M60A1 tanks in 3 "line" troops and also an Air Assault Troop (with a few pilots - most were in Viet Nam). Every enlisted man had to get a driver's license and learn to drive some military vehicle, other than a tank or APC, because there were hundreds of support vehicles.
@rare_kumiko 3 роки тому
"Unless you don't believe in logistics, and then you might be in the wrong channel anyway" What's logistics? Germany should have just invaded the UK, anyway. Don't kill me Bernhard I'm kidding.
@thelvadam2884 3 роки тому
Here we meet against, our battle will be legendary!!
@panosfasoul699 3 роки тому
@Claus Bohm logistics say if you dont attack Russia you'll run out of oil though
@panosfasoul699 3 роки тому
@Claus Bohm the Persian oil was way too far away for it to be used. The line of supply would be impossible to sustain and to do so would mean basically waiting all of the oil itself to transport it. Ukraine on the other hand was closer and more manageable, had they defeated the red army in barbarossa which was the plan
@overboss9599 3 роки тому
@@panosfasoul699 they would have managed it if It wasn't for the massive supply of aluminum,shoes,trucks etc supplied to the red army via lend-lease. The Soviet industrial capacity was even worse than the germans pre-WWII.
@rare_kumiko 3 роки тому
@@overboss9599 Bernhard has a couple of videos (I don't remember whether it was in this channel or in Not Visualized) where he looks at sources on the impact of Lend Lease. There is no consensus among historians as to whether the Soviets would have won without Lend Lease, but most of the help came after the Germans had stopped advancing in 1941, so it's likely (even if not certain) that they would have managed to stop the Germans and eventually push them back, but it would have taken more time.
@mensch1066 3 роки тому
MHV organization videos! I've been waiting so long for one of these!
@bskorupk 3 роки тому
NEW from the Makers of "Why 278 Men for a Frigate? #Nelson's Navy" comes Another Logistical Homage "Why 879 Men for 45 Tigers?" :)
@jurtra9090 3 роки тому
Why 874 men for 45 Tigers? 225 for operating the Tiger 654 for pushing it when having a engine breakdown
@dertechie 3 роки тому
Meanwhile I'm like "879? That seems honestly seems if anything undermanned for the logistics to keep heavy tanks running".
@orangephoenixbrazier4978 3 роки тому
Each repair platoon had a painter? Did his grenades consist of throwaway paint tins?
@talknight2 3 роки тому
Painter/IED bomb-maker
@nilloc93 3 роки тому
Paint is fairly important since it can be used for anti magnetic coating, in modern armies the paint of some vehicles can also offer a level of IR/anti radar absorption
@rollerofdoom1 3 роки тому
And, you know, just regulard old paint to keep rust away, camouflage up, and unit numbers displayed.
@mtnbound2764 3 роки тому
they did have to change the paint color and camo from time to time, and you know paint wears off.
@artificialintelligence8328 3 роки тому
What about the plumber?
@rrl4245 3 роки тому
I wonder how many battalions were actually fully staffed with people and vehicles (particularly tanks), at any time in the war. I was a US Army Infantry officer, and even in 'peace time' we were undermanned and were often short of our TOE vehicles.
@adamabele785 3 роки тому
These were paper numbers. It is counted as if nobody has vacation, gets sick or wounded, none is away for training and every unit works on a three shift rotation. So in reality these units had about 3/4 of the men at the start and 2/3 of it after some combat.
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
Soviets had 10 k men for 240 tanks which gives a rate of 41 men per tank vs 19 men per tank for Germans.
@dimakapeev3156 3 роки тому
Does the number include tank desant troops though.
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
yes, 10 guys of troops per tank. they descided to train them togeather for better collaboration
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
2 400 of those 10 k are infantry, assigned to each tank. A lot of troops in artillery units. 1000 are tank crews. Not so many units in tank support, most are in combat units. they had snipers and machine-gun troops in tank corps
@dimakapeev3156 3 роки тому
@@andrebas1124 now this is proper combined arms.
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
it was smart - to assign infantry to tanks so they can play as an organic unit. there were also tank regiments of 22-24 tanks. these were designed for some particular task and might be assigned to division or army as an additional unit
@ussalabama2870 3 роки тому
Could we see US calvary in the late 1800s early 1900s. It would be interesting since they got to see some of the most action (for a cavalry) in the world and had to move in extremely long ranges and also was one of the last hourse units that was arguably that was the most important part of the army.
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
its boring. who cares about us cavalry?
@brucetucker4847 3 роки тому
@@andrebas1124 Geronimo?
@andrebas1124 3 роки тому
Dovator and Belov corps in the battle of Moscow are way more interesting. German huge military hourses, they had 600 k of them in Barbarossa.... this is interesting not some cavalry in the us
@ussalabama2870 3 роки тому
@@andrebas1124 Yes, but they where not doing the bulk of the fighting like what the cavalry was doing during the Indian wars.
@Ralphieboy 3 роки тому
Some people fall asleep counting sheep, I fall asleep counting organizational tables of armored units...
@ninaakari5181 3 роки тому
This is exactly the type of content, that I started subscribing your channel for years ago :) Thank you!
@ninaakari5181 3 роки тому
Btw, didn't the heavy tank batallions include Pz III ausf. N's and / or Pz II's at some point?
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
yeah, the early early version, I think that one only had around 20 Tigers also. Problem was, the just shot up the Pz IIIs, later on they used halftracks, but in a different way.
@hanshull6687 2 роки тому
Excellent explanation. When I was in US Army armor battalions in the 1980s-1990s (four tank companies) we had a similar balance of all the other troops that supported or sustained the tanks (M60 and M1). It takes quite a few.
@domingomastromatteo8905 3 роки тому
Comprehensive, informative and educational as always. Thanks to keep sharing and uploading really good information, I love these kind of videos. Here is clear to see how in a military unit is essential the logistics and maintenance personal. Not everything is shootings.
@Shantykoff 3 роки тому
Stalin: Great Patriotic War Hitler: Anti-Bolshevistic Crusade Military History Visualized: Second Vo Vo
@maximilianolimamoreira5002 3 роки тому
he is Austrian,you know? It's his accent showing up
@maximilianolimamoreira5002 3 роки тому
even though,i can't quite get,why a German speaker would say war as "vor".
@Shantykoff 3 роки тому
@@maximilianolimamoreira5002 you were thinking about this for 2 weeks?
@williamballangarry2995 3 роки тому
I'll admit it, this had me cracking up XD
@jemb67 3 роки тому
Thanks! I've been obsessed with this sort of thing for years. Panther battalions had over 1000 men, with similar organisation. For comparison, USS Carl Vinson off Afghanistan 2001: c5700 inc 250 aircrew, 2250 others in her Air Wing, 240 in ship's Major Aircraft Maintenance dept, 65 med & dental, 250 food service (priorities...)
@michaelpalmer4387 3 роки тому
I remember being interested in the military organisation of panzer battalions when I did my work experience at IWM Duxford (nearly 30 years ago!) I remember reading later that Soviet tank battalions & regiments were always a lot leaner. While they had maintenance & supply organisations, I believe they were a lot less. Later on, during the Cold War, a Russian was supposedly surprised by how personnel heavy US tank battalions were (including cooks, mechanics, etc.) They wondered if US tank battalions included penal infantry or something.
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
Didn't the Soviets have a lot of rear service troops that weren't counted in their divisional setups? At least for WW2 I know this is a common problem comparing German vs. Soviet division strengths.
@podemosurss8316 3 роки тому
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Indeed. The rear service troops in the Soviet OOB were included as part of the corps or army HQ elements. In the case of the Soviet armored units, they had around 1 tank for 10 men in the combat sub-units, and also included 1 maintenance company on the brigade level. Engineers, medical units, communication units and such were included on the corps level. They also included heavy artillery regiments directly attached to the corps or army level, that were to be used in a "Grand Battery" style.
@jemb67 3 роки тому
If I've got it right, the US units aimed to supply and maintain equipment and crews more effectively, so they had more non-combat service elements nearer the action. In Iraq, the combat units needed such long supply columns, I think a higher proportion of casualties were in transportation units: insurgents don't stick to frontlines.
@michaelpalmer4387 3 роки тому
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I think I once remember reading that the British Army tried to go down the route of using tank crews as mechanics. It clearly didn't work as you need additional personnel to repair, etc.
@PvtSchlock 3 роки тому
I used to play board, or tabletop games like "Panzerblitz" and "advanced squad leader" where the logistical elements were "subsumed". Yet because of my background study in military history and friends and relatives, I understood that log was very important. It is rare to have a story, or game about an ammo runner. I like this episode a lot, thank you.
@a.f.nik.4210 3 роки тому
There's a game called foxhole, players handle all the logistical aspects there. From gathering materials to producing rifles and ammo to driving fuel trucks for tanks.
@supaflylob 3 роки тому
sometimes im not sure if hes speaking german or having a stroke
@KaDaJxClonE 3 роки тому
Those are quite similar in nature.
@darthcalanil5333 3 роки тому
He is Austrian, so both are right!
@michaelhawkins7389 3 роки тому
@@darthcalanil5333 oh wow hahaha
@sergeantrecker5399 3 роки тому
This was one hell of an informative video, love it!!!
@phillip5245 3 роки тому
6:55 Only one Schumacher? Was it Michael or Ralf?
@rhoddryice5412 3 роки тому
Toni?
@mattpinky7125 3 роки тому
It may have been mick
@ralfweber4346 3 роки тому
Very well done (as always - I really enjoy your videos) Minor mistake in 2:17 (recon "bataillon"......should be "platoon") Keep on the good work!
@MarcosElMalo2 3 роки тому
I can account for the discrepancy between 879 and 878. The clerk assigned the responsibility of counting forgot to count himself.
@nottoday3817 3 роки тому
I'm at 1:17 Let me take a wild guess and the reason why you have so many 'extra men' is for logistics as Tigers were quite demanding machines and losing them would cause some major problems to both tactics and morale. So you needed every single one of them capable of firing and moving as fast as possible, thus putting major effort in logistics and repair was critical. So most people are going to be tasked with logistics and/or repairs. And, perhaps, some replacement crews (but doubt it)
@theduck3876 3 роки тому
i never thought i wanted to know the nitty gritty of these things until now. how fascinating!
@gmanawesome5773 3 роки тому
EVERY TIME I WATCH YOUR VIDEOS I LEARN SOMETHING NEW
@ericsbuds 3 роки тому
great video as always. thank you!
@danielburgess7785 3 роки тому
Facts and humor in one concise video. Thank you.
@seanrundell9510 3 роки тому
I wouldn't get to rapped around the numbers. As a forward observer, I was the only one with nine positions in a Ranger company, and the platoon leader would have me doing something else anyways like carrying a anti tank gun or a MMG.
@aleksandarvasilev4042 3 роки тому
You have new subscriber. Greetings from Macedonia
@lemike1880 3 роки тому
Interesting vedio thanks buddy i hope u are the best Also is this how u say it fliegerabwehrzug?
@marsupiallion94 2 роки тому
Plumber and the painter coming in clutch.
@jim99west46 3 роки тому
Excellent look at Tiger TO&E
@jonathanevans4610 3 роки тому
Great stuff, do you comparable figures for a medium tank battalion?
@anbitye2134 3 роки тому
Like in HOI4, why would you need 20 men to pilot 1 plane...?
@talknight2 3 роки тому
It includes ground crews
@jemb67 3 роки тому
When I obsessively looked up armed forces stats as a boy, I always noticed air forces typically had around a hundred personnel for each combat plane. That was the early '70s, so the tail's probably even longer now!
@podemosurss8316 3 роки тому
7:43 So about the necesary personel to fix all the suspensions that break on the battalion...
@samadams2203 3 роки тому
As always, logistics is the most important part.
@markholm6955 3 роки тому
Not sure how I missed this until now - anyway - outstanding work!
@leiloan7677 3 роки тому
ah yes, the infamous heavy kitty batallions, they're so damn cute when they're destroying allies tanks
@therealkillerb7643 3 роки тому
Thank you for this. In my experience, most people, other than veterans, just do not appreciate how many men it takes to make a modern army operate. For every guy who pulls a trigger, there are great numbers of others whose job is to get him where he can fire, feed him, clothe him, medicate him, supply him with ammunition and fix his weapon which he will break almost every time he picks it up.
@talknight2 3 роки тому
Hey, 99% of the time it's not his rifle that breaks, it's the vehicle he shows up in!
@DanielWW2 3 роки тому
6:54 You mean the single most important person in the battalion. ;)
@calebr908 3 роки тому
He has to continually tell the troops there are no winter clothes to go around
@MakeMeThinkAgain 3 роки тому
It might be interesting to compare German and American medium tank battalions. Of course you would also want to know what the actual availability of the tanks was... what percentage of the time they were in fighting order.
@Atesz222 3 роки тому
This doesn't add up. Oddball was talking about only 100 men and 3 Tigers :O
@napluvr4173 3 роки тому
i was an AAV mechanic in the marines and our vehicles roughly required around 4 hours of maintenance for ever 1 hour of field operations.The proper maintenance ratio of a tiger 1 must have been astronomical.
@venator5 2 роки тому
It was actually 1 hours for 8 hours in action. Could be worse depending on environment thou.
@NBblowyouup71 3 роки тому
I think you made a small mathematical error at 1:14. Figured I’d point it out just so people don’t get confused. Love your videos though!
@johnknapp952 3 роки тому
This is normal for any unit with vehicles or aircraft. In my Navy helo squadron we had about 12 aircraft and about 250 personnel.
@jemb67 3 роки тому
When was that, and with which helos, please?
@leonpeters-malone3054 3 роки тому
Cue joke about the Germans having spare parts for the Tigers. I'm wondering about the plumber here to be honest. It's probably not for the engine, nor for the turret or gun. I'll have to check a few things, across a few vehicles. Hydraulics would be what I would first look for. Maybe the fuel units? Something to research, at least.
@UnintentionalSubmarine 3 роки тому
Given that there is only one plumber I think we are looking at a person that would specifically craft maintenance spare piping etc, rather than go about repairing failed units, which the mechanics could probably do much better anyway. A bit like the ship's carpenter in the age of sail.
@bradyelich2745 3 роки тому
The plumber would know how to; solder and braze, seal the pipe joints, and cut pipe to length for fitting.
@DagarCoH 3 роки тому
Uh... I only listened with half an ear and thought of the guy who determines where and how the outhouses are built...
@talknight2 3 роки тому
@@DagarCoH That might also be part of it
@leonpeters-malone3054 3 роки тому
@@DagarCoH Fair point. I'll pay it. Sanitation is impossible to argue against.
@steelmagnum 3 роки тому
Do you have a playlist setup for videos like this where you do breakdowns of all the sub units, manpower, and equipment?
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
yes: ukposts.info/slow/PLv0uEimc-uN_8nKD6ACOs0j86VcEC5fUF
@emperorspock3506 3 роки тому
Me: Years of studying, practising and successfully using German in professional and private life. One Upper Austrian boi: Moacht des Kraut ah net fett. Me: Contemplating suicide.
@TigerBaron 3 роки тому
For whoever is interested I highly suggest the book Combat History of Tiger Tank Battalion 503 which has organizational as well as history writings of one of the best Heavy Tank Battalions during the war that served on both Eastern and Western fronts during the war and were also probably the most famous King Tiger equipped unit as well.
@DavidJohnson-qk5zt 3 роки тому
Is there any particular place you get the vehicle silhouettes, or are they just gathered from the Internet?
@smiles8886 3 роки тому
I just wondered if a heat round went off by going through the track armor/spaced armor and the hot metal melted on one of the tracks or wheels would it detrack or break the tank?
@FraserJBWalker 3 роки тому
Most important man in any military unit - the paymaster
@benhur4154 3 роки тому
Kelly: That's the normal amount of support for three Tiger tanks. Big Joe: Tigers?! Where the hell did the Tigers come from?
@SaintMarneusCalgar 3 роки тому
Super video wie immer! Falls du nicht gerade in ost österreich lebst kann ich dir echt empfehlen mal in die schweiz nach sg. Magreten zu fahren und die festung heldsberg zu besichtigen oder auch nach ruental full da ist auch eine fast baugleiche festung und ein tolles militärmuseum, das abgesehen von geschätzten 60 panzern unzählige flugabwehr systeme und kanonen beherbergt. Gruß aus vorarlberg :)
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
danke! Schweizer Museen stehen am generellen Plan, aber ich arbeite im Moment noch ideale "Museumsdoktrin" aus, weil so ein Trip bedeutet mal 1 Tag An- und 1 Abreise. War jetzt gerade in Panzermuseum Munster, 2 Tage An/Abreise und 3 Drehtage mit der Vorbereitung etc. 70 Stunden und das ohne die Zeit für das Schreiben der Skripten. Das Ergebnis mit Munster sieht im Moment gut aus, aber ich muss dann mal die "Endabrechnung" machen.
@SaintMarneusCalgar 3 роки тому
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized da steckt offensichtlich mehr arbeit dahinter als man denkt :0 bin gespant auf das video. danke für alles was du uns bietest! keep it up! :)
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
pro Visualized video 20-40 Stunden; not visualized um die 10 Stunden, manche aber bis zu 20 Stunden. In Munster hab ich jetzt auch viel Referenzaufnahmen gemacht, die in Zukunft auch Zeit sparen können. Ansonsten sei mal auf das Wiesel 1 Video gespannt, dass wird wohl bisher die beste Kombi aus Visualized, Museum- und Eventbesuch.
@SaintMarneusCalgar 3 роки тому
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized kanns kaum erwarten :D wünsche dir weiterhin viel erfolg mit deinem channel! Und danke das du dir zeit nimmts um mit deinen abonenten zu schreiben :) much aprechiated.
@stephens7136 3 роки тому
A little bit disappointed that you didn't have counters/images for any of the other vehicles, it would have helped to visualize how big the group would be in convoy or in a rest area. Other than that, a very informative video.
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
as addressed in the video, it was simple not feasible, I started out that way and ran out of space even with the small units.
@stephens7136 3 роки тому
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I posted before watching to your notes at the end. Credit to you for putting in the effort, even though it didn't fit into the video. Perhaps you could make a separate chart, if you have enough counters for each vehicle type?
@kaneo1 3 роки тому
13:15 Sometimes the angry kitties would get duckies!
@CAP198462 3 роки тому
Leo Niehorster’s website is suß. Organisational tables for every nation in the Second World War, the symbology, and the numbers of personnel assigned. I’ve used his site a lot to make battle groups for steel division.
@liamfoley9614 3 роки тому
Can you say more about the staff? And what would be the rank of the commanding officer.
@llamathenerd1672 3 роки тому
2:04 - the best part
@Lqualls11 3 роки тому
Are these numbers consistent with other nations heavy tank battalions?
@peasant8246 3 роки тому
Yay! World of Tanks! Love that game.
@cnlbenmc 3 роки тому
When considering the maintenance and fuel consumption problems the Tiger had; it's no surprise that about half the manpower in the battalion is allocated for maintenance and logistics support.
@Palora01 3 роки тому
Is this ratio more or less the same for regular tank units?
@johnnyjet3.1412 3 роки тому
"any idiot can study tactics, professionals study logistics" I started my career as a medic in the 82d Abn, and ended it as a Nat'l Guard truck driver, I went to Iraq driving HETs(the trucks that haul the tanks) in between I spent time in Intel and track mechanic. A lot of years doing everything but combat.
@Azylath 2 роки тому
Would like to see a comparison of this with either a US or British Tank Battalion
@loupiscanis9449 3 роки тому
Thank You
@neilwilson5785 3 роки тому
Big Keanu/Little Keanu meme at 0:38 lol.
@Ralphieboy 3 роки тому
So how many vehicles were there overall in a Tiger battalion? (asking for a friend who wants to assemble one in 1/285 miniatures)
@Wargamer-sw8yh 3 роки тому
Can you do a video on tank buster aircraft
@user-xj1jk5rr4q 3 роки тому
I am interested to know how they used to carry spare transportation caterpillars? Did they move them along with the tanks or were they left at the railway station? Each of them weighs enough to require a separate truck for it. Looks too complicated.
@williamscottshelton945 3 роки тому
LOL! talk about timing I am currently painting up a tiger company for the game flames of war!
@heavydecibel 3 роки тому
This is valid for every organisation be it a football club, a rockband on tour or what have you. Iron Maiden have six performarces on stage and a massive road crew.
@altair458 3 роки тому
Great channel! I subscribe👍👍👍👍👍
@ianglover7268 3 роки тому
Do you ever intend on selling anymore 1941 panzer company manuals. I really wanted to get one, but because I’m 14 I don’t have the means to order one online, so I had to resort to my parents, who were skeptical of indigogo, so I never managed to get get one. Will they ever be for sale on amazon or something?
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
there will be one soon on lulu.com
@ianglover7268 3 роки тому
Military History Visualized ok thank you
@jerrydart6749 3 роки тому
What would be à çommon infantry complement which would be assigned to a tiger combat company
@aramos3639 3 роки тому
It’s so that they can press = to replace knocked out crew in battle
@ColonelBummleigh 3 роки тому
Top stuff.
@joechang8696 3 роки тому
I am inclined to think that concentrating 45 Tigers into a single battalion is overkill, even if a Panzer division has x heavy battalions and y medium. My guess would be that each Tiger company should be accompanied by a half-company of Panzer IV (to test bridge strength, etc.) and 2 Tiger companies in a battalion could act as the spearhead of an attack.
@matthiuskoenig3378 3 роки тому
when tigers were first sent into combat they had half that number supported by around 20 panzer IIIs, they found ~20 tigers was never enough to really do anything, and mixing lighter tanks into an heavy/assault unit was a bad idea. so they dropped the panzer IIIs for more Tigers. also keep in mind a regular panzer battalion had ~60 tanks (not including panzer IIs). also heavy tank battalions were not part of a panzer division, but were independent units.
@derbananenbaumler9482 3 роки тому
Ist mit "Tiger" nur die Ausführung E/H gemeint oder auch Ausf. B (Tiger II) ?
@MilitaryHistoryVisualized 3 роки тому
only Tiger I, but I haven't seen data for the Tiger II Battalions, it could be that they were very similar.
@chuckoffcampus9738 3 роки тому
The extra 24 men could easily be explained by carrying extra personnel because there are always some away on leave, at training schools, or temporarily detailed to another unit. I bet even the army that rolled into Poland had some men on emergency home leave and away from the unit for other reasons.
@podemosurss8316 3 роки тому
Interesting... One could even say the number of Tigers is too much for a battalion, when compared to other heavy tank units at the time: the Soviets had (from 1942 onwards) 21 tanks per battalion, of course these tank battalions were smaller than the German ones and also had a different operational structure. A Soviet breaktrough tank battalion included 248 men, 21 tanks, 3 APCs and 37 cars, and was organised as follows: -1 HQ platoon (1 tank) -4 tank companies (5 tanks and 50 men each). -1 maintenance platoon. -1 mechanised assault platoon.
@matthiuskoenig3378 3 роки тому
soviet heavy tank units worked differently to german ones though, they were integrated support units and thus always had units of assault guns or medium tanks i support. german heavy tank units were independent battalions and needed to be able to operate with only infantry support. also one must point out that german heavy tank battalions started out with fewer tiger tanks, but experience thought that ~20 tigers was insufficient (possibly due to high mechanical failure rates) german tank units typically operated with
@podemosurss8316 3 роки тому
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Indeed. Soviet breaktrough tank units operated usually at brigade level so they had integrated artillery and motorised units, as well as coordination with other tank units often (those medium tanks you mention). The Soviets intended and used their heavy tanks to "pack a punch" but in coordination with other units, in fact the concept of "breaktrough tank" implies coordination with both infantry, tanks and cavalry/motorised troops, as their role was to "punch a hole" in the enemy lines that could be exploited by faster units.
@craigiefconcert6493 3 роки тому
5 crew x 45 tanks = 225 men that would go out and be killed. The others unless they’re over-run would not need to be replaced. So in terms of expenditure of manpower resources it is not so bad if they can keep 45 tanks active with replacement vehicles and crews. A more informative quantitative analysis would be how many men were cycled through the unit over the course of the war and the total number of tanks and crews.
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