That is not how it works. Overly simplistic take. These people DO NOT think like how they look. Their parents are the immigrants. They are not. They are natural born in a country they view as their own. And they are making decisions to defend it. If you were born and raised in a different country from your parents, you will understand what it is to feel much more of a connection to where you call home vs where your parents call home.

@@pjbpiano So they were never seen as "other" by anyone? Talk about over simplistic.

@@Paul-eb4jp, at some point, you might come to realise that a lot of the time, how others see you does not matter to your self image if you do not want it to matter. And many of these people are comfortable with who they are and their identity. Those who overblow the idea that people see them as others generally struggle with their own self identity and need people outside of themselves to validate them.

@@pjbpiano Thank you Dr Freud I feel so much better now.

​​@@pjbpianoWhat a load of nonsense. Does your expertise come from a lived experience or some bullshit academic theory?

Why shouldn't they be any different? That's like saying that someone who is mixed race shouldn't have different opinions on race than the general population (who are still 80+% white european). If your parents were immigrants and you are anti-imiigration, that's one hell of a cognitive dissonence to deal with.

Possibly. But then also, it's entirely feasible that their views are broadly representative of people from those ethnic minority groups. For example (if I remember correctly) most Indian immigrants vote Conservative.

@@andybrice2711 only since conservative party started promoting Brexit, delivering mass immigration from India. Furthermore, Indians will always vote for Indians, regardless of political party, and you will find that Labour has much less Indian candidates standing in elections.

Of course that's the rationale, it would be beyond naive to think otherwise!

I dont think its right that you should assume all 2nd generation immigrants would hold the same views, but I do think its immoral and hypocritical if that 2nd generation shut the door in the faces of those who are just trying to do what their parents/grandparents did. Assumption of others and morality of ones position are 2 different things in my opinion.

Wow. That is a helluva statement. England is fucked, isn’t it?

Hence why class transcends race as the main dividing line in this country

exactly... class predjudice and social barriers to working class advancement are a much bigger factor in today's UK than they are given credit for. Being harsh this could be said to be because it is much easier for middle class educated people (a minority of their own in this country) to identify and attack predjudice that they can see and understand because they know people who have experienced it? The predjudices and barriers faced by a class are not as easy to understand if youa re fomr a different class. The Left has spent 20 years fighting battles that help sub sections of the middle class but don't address the inequalities in health, housing, education and social mobility that all members of the working class face - regardless of race, religion, sexuality or gender identity.

@@CarlinConnolly Hi Though I think there is good sociological evidence for your class versus race statement I really question the other parts of your post. The whole left wing vs right wing thing is a bit of an historical artefact. Progressive versus Neoliberal is a much better axis for our current times. Were one to have to choose a single axis. I was born upper middle class, but have lived and at times worked as a working class person, labouring in heavy industry and the like. Yes, going hungry at times. Yes being thrown on the dole and yes, being street homeless too. Your paradigm fails to respect the richness of our lives. Thinking in class terms only has value when looking at opportunity (and the lack of it) and sometimes values and beliefs. However in Scotland this breaks down. Scotland has divisions of aspiration and opportunity, but my experience was that, perhaps because of the much better schools, most folk were very politically aware in a thinking manner. Of course the barriers are easily appreciated, even when you are from a different class. But only if folk take time to understand. That is a rather produced and myopic statement. As for, "The Left has spent 20 years fighting battles that help sub sections of the middle class but don't address the inequalities in health, housing, education and social mobility that all members of the working class face - regardless of race, religion, sexuality or gender identity." Without meaning to be rude, that is utter bollocks. Who is it in the think tanks Campaigning? Who is it in the Universities laying the whole thing bare for us all to see? And, what privileged parliamentarians have campaigned on these very issues? You seem to have a Marxist perspective. And, Marx still holds true today. However the world has become vastly more complex than he could ever have expected. Are not the tradesmen of today a new petit bourgeoisie? Are not the middle class salaried workers not the same workers being excluded from the capital their labour produces?

It's the "one of the good ones" syndrome. This comes about when certain people have spent a lifetime trying to fit in.

Because the tories want to avoid accusation of racism.

Might partly be about people of Indian/Hindu heritage being somewhat anti immigrants from countries that are anti-Indian. When I was at school (a long time ago admittedly) all the obvious racial tensions were between Pakistani and Indian background pupils - and conservative Muslims do view Hinduism as idolatry which might be uncomfortable.

The Tories are historically and still a racist party and I have pointed out what you have just stated in your post. Divide the working classes and ethnicities on race and then rule them all, if those ethnic minority MPs create chaos then put the blame solely at their feet and highlight their ethnic minority back ground or in the case of Badenock, Patel, rishi, Cleverly and Braverman there colour. Evil twisted tories but then these MPs are stupid for going along with it all for power and money. They will all in the end be used and then thrown under the bus.

Bingo

The idea someone that isn't white could be against immigration is so crazy and alien to you that you're performing mental gymnastics to try and justify something that is likely very simple: They see the mass immigration happening in this country is not a good thing. Try looking at the world through a lens that doesn't see everything as racist and maybe you'll understand.

That was the exact sentiment. It is a selfish one. But also it is an unfortunate calculus. I think most second and third generation of migrants of Asian and African origin were afraid that the arrival of more immigrants would pull the indigenous white population of the UK back into the bad psychology the parents of those second and third generation migrants faced. I am of African origin, though also brummie and I do not have the same anti-immigrants attitude. In fact because of my African heritage I feel that I have no say in the matter. I do not belong to the indigenous white population of the UK so I feel I should no my place in the matter. I really have no say in it. Also, because of my African heritage I felt it was immoral for me to decide how indigenous white Europeans got to move around their own continent.

Well given that a vast oversupply of supply of labour lowers wages, maintains structural unemployment and raises house prices... duh. I mean the Establishment is just straight up lying now about the economic effects and who really benefits

Crabs in a barrel mentality

@@AB-ff1cq No, it's called not being an ideologue and being able to do basic maths This country is grossly overpopulated. It is mathematically impossible for wages to rise and to have affordable housing under these conditions. It's actually sick how you gaslight people in this way

Lack of affordable housing is a political choice, and one that no politicians have made for far too long. We also have something like 2 million vacancies in this country - over 100,000 for the NHS alone and many more in the care sector. So the argument that the country is full, that wages can’t rise and that there’s no affordable housing because we’re too full doesn’t really stand up to any scrutiny.

Brits and French and other colonial countries, need to wake up on the massive resentment WE, the colonizers, created ... Ignoring it won't take us nowhere ....

Personally, I believe your parents are in fact West African who were born on the island of Jamaica. A DNA test would show they are probably 100% Nigerian, Ghanaian or Sierra Leonean. Black people do not remotely resemble a true West Indian as they are not indigenous to the Caribbean. A true Jamaican are those who resemble people who can be found in Central and South America. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against black people and often visit Africa. However, people from the African diaspora, wherever they were born in the world, are 100% African and not European, American, or West Indian.

​@@jacobrivers5728 so there's no such thing as Americans or Australians or new Zealand if we go with your rhetorics and are all just Europeans. You didn't say anything particularly substantial with that low key hating diversion 🙄

@@nyakwarObat Wrong, there are indeed Americans, Australians, and New Zealanders. The true indigenous American is the brown-skinned Native Indian; the true indigenous Australian is the dark-skinned Aborigine; the true indigenous New Zealander is the brown-skinned Maori, and the true indigenous Jamaican is the brown-skinned Taino Indian. Like I said, I have nothing against black people born in Jamaica, however, they are NOT Jamaicans but West Africans.

@@jacobrivers5728 stop wasting time and energy. Say something profound that we actually don't know and why are you Europeans calling yourself American, Australian, New Zealand btw? You know that's exactly what I meant but just had to be extra 🙄

Exactly. She even said "I'm so glad you brought that up, blaa blaa blaa" before forgetting to answer the goddamn question.

She obviously answered the question, you need to pay more attention, I'll summarise it. So to put it shortly, she said that they do this because: almost there, keep scrolling almost wow, are you seriously that interested in the answer? Ok, I'll stop, here it is:you were right lmfao, they never gave the answer.

U just saved me watching this 😂

Nailed it

You're right, very useless interview

Am British born indian I dont class india as my country .I been on holiday once to india and they hate british born but they always want our money ....

What!?? You are talking absolute nonsense!

I can't imagine Badenoch wants a whole slew of Nigerian Muslims here that's for sure.

Nigeria and India are the furtherest things removed from ethno-state although I get your point

The vast majority of legal immigrants in this country are hindu Indians, followed by Christian Nigerians - the Tories fave minorities after Jews of course. The NHS, academia etc are full of em. The lads on the boats despite the media hype are much less in number although they're definitely not 'legal'. They're from countries where Britain has risked its soldiers lives and been an occupier.

Which is kind-of classist. But also, kind-of pragmatically true. Skilled immigrants are generally a greater asset to the country.

I also think it's unsurprising that children of Indian Hindu parents might be supportive of more skilled immigration from India, but less enthusiastic about immigration from poorer Muslim countries.

​@@andybrice2711 True but Hindus overall are much more compatible with UK and European society than Muslims. Far-right parties are rising in Europe mainly because of their anti-Islam positions. Like in France when Samuel Paty was beheaded in 2020 by an 18 year old Chechen refugee after he showed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in a freedom of expression class. Also in Germany in 2015 on the night of New Year's Eve: In 1 night, mass sexual assaults by gangs of men numbering around 2000 occurred and the preparators were described by the victims as being of "North African/Middle Eastern" appearance. In just this 1 night, 1200 women were sexually assaulted. This was the same year in which Germany let in around 1 million refugees, nearly all of which came from Muslim countries. 130,000 asylum seekers that entered Germany are also missing by the way - no one knows where they have gone. There is also Norway who introduced classes on women's rights to refugees/migrants after in 2009, a "spate of rapes by migrant men in Norway prompted the introduction of the controversial classes for refugees." In Sweden, this is what former Sweden PM herself said: "Sweden has failed to integrate the vast numbers of immigrants it has taken in over the past two decades, leading to parallel societies and gang violence, Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson said".

The 'proper immigrant'. Look at the likes of Sunak, Patel and Braverman and weep. And they are not even immigrants. God help us.

I wonder who taught them about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ kinds of immigrants.

Well, he won't have worry about that. Instead, he should be worried that he would be sent back to them.

@@berniethekiwidragon4382my countrymen have entrenched un democratic culture and if I leave to Britain to live among an open society, I would not want my country men to follow me and ruin this one as well. That’s the thinking if you want to understand them.

​@@FetsumBerhaneDireright...all his country men are bad and the course of his country's problem and he happens to be the only good one

@@berniethekiwidragon4382 Why would someone be sent back when they have citizenship/permanent residency? I also was born in Poland and later voted to leave. Although my views are slightly more on the principle side since I would also want Poland to leave as well.

@@asoton957 A lot of EU residents' right to stay depended on agreements within the EU. If you have already obtained British citizenship, then you would be fine.

So if a country allows one immigrant in, logically it has to allow the whole planet in?

@@georgesdelatour Whose logic is that?

or thinking Britain is there home and it needs protecting and looking after, not destroyed.

how are they pulling the ladder, when the immigration under pattel, sunak and braveman reached hyper astronomical levels?

@@bigbarry8343 Out of incompetence not intention

Had their parents/grandparents not emigrated they would possibly have had the same attitudes to life in the countries of their ancestors as they have in this country. Conversely to them there are a lot of people who's ancestors arrived in this country and are grateful for being allowed to do so and like many of ingenious people hold out a welcoming hand to those who arrive on our shores. We live in a democracy so hopefully we can explain to all those who appear to dislike immigrants that they could be wrong.

Wow lots of babble there. No one reads these huge single paragraphs.

@@adamgrimsley2900 Except the 58 who liked it.

@@clivemortimore8203 there are kindly souls.

You answered the question the panelists did not 👍🏼

Bingo! The fact many in the comments have called them second-generation immigrants is telling to say the least! I don’t agree with the policies the Conservative party have regarding immigration, but the expectation that one should behave a certain way because of their ethnicity or background is wild. Perhaps, a white British person couldn’t say freely what their non-white British MPs are saying, but no one would use their background to say they **should** think a certain way. It’s disgusting.

Finally someone with a properly functioning brain.

You will always be an immigrant but what ever makes you sleep better.

You'll always remain an immigrant, even if your family stays for over a 100 years.

@@TheSereneWanderer87 agreed and the term go back to your country, so these two on the podcast are talking nonsense

Thank you - alone voice of reason here. We are worried about the HUGE NUMBERS and whether they can integrate or whether the country will fall apart. These loonies on this thread have no idea of the street level reality, they are obviously rich and middle class enough that they don't see what is happening yet...

​@HDSPKSRecords-gi1ob Believe me, it is always the middle class who pushes this. I think money and profit also play a big part. The corporate world loves open door migration.

I'm from Pakistan and you're wrong about us expelling all Afghans.

@@smhamza9705Ok, not all of them, 95% of them. Happy?

One word: money. Well, that and the fact that desperate foreigners trying to get in are useful to frighten the natives with.

He is a Tory politician and must appeal to his voters.

You realise that people were saying “we can’t support all these immigrants” when your parents immigrated? So why was it okay for them to come here but it’s not okay for any more immigrants to come? Honestly interested as this doesn’t make any logical sense. It sounds like one rule for your parents & another for other people.

@@charleyd80 NHS way overloaded, travel costs have skyrocketed and London has experienced a major culture shock. Be honest with yourself. Everything has a life cycle. Just because there was opposition before doesn't mean it was justified. Now it is justified opposition.

@@charleyd80 No, this perspective is very simple and lacks nuance. We can criticise the inflammatory rhetoric, but to make it about you ethnic heritage - is a problem. Times are different. I don’t agree with their policies, but let’s not play silly. Also, no child asks to be born or chooses where they live. How many years must one live in the UK as a British non-white person before they are no longer referred to as an immigrant?

@@5ubjugator Was it really justified?? Back in the 1960's and 1970's when indigenous white English people were pushed out of New Ham, Southall, Illford, Tower Hamlets, Bradford and Brixton because of the swarm of migrants that came into Britain, like your parents, and created a housing shortage and culture shock???!!! The NHS is overloaded because it was originally built on colonial money and only meant to serve an elite white British population. When something is freely or cheaply available then obviously hordes of people are going to try and get a piece of it. Travel costs have skyrocketed because greedy transport company bosses want to squeeze more profit out whilst keeping spending on the services to a minimum.

@@vin00ify Yes. SOMEWHAT justified. Keyword: Somewhat. Just because too much of something can cause harm doesn't mean a small or adequate amount is not beneficial. It is well known that ALL advanced economies (when coupled with a nihilistic philosophy) suffer the consequences of advancement - that is, people want to enjoy the fruits of their labour without the responsibility and financial burden of procreation. Economic advancement leads to a declining birthrate which needs to be supplemented by immigration. Japan, China and many other nations are currently suffering from the effects of such a low birthrate where the working population gets poorer and poorer due to the need to fund for the proportionately large non-working retired population.

This.

Your position is very foolish. What drove your parents here is still chasing others here today.

@@osaadetoba4006 you think your 2nd sentence follows from the 1st but it really doesnt

@@osaadetoba4006 The duty is on everyone equally. Think about what you're saying, actually think. It's ethnic nationalism to give one person greater responsibility than another because one has ancestry that dates further. Think about your logic and look at what I said. Think.

Exactly, 100% correct.

More mental gymnastics from the right to defend the vile politics pedalled by inept conservative politicians attempting to use racism to get votes

'the black community'

@@frdsg8350 BAME POC

They crave acceptance and their accents give this craving a solid foundation.

@@geraldbutler5484 you do realise what this whole video was about just because of the their race or heritage doesnt make them obligated/bound to poltical belifes they are indviduals. To assume so is a best ignorant and at worst racist

No all. Some are in Reform UK.

Why would they join Labour?

@@markbright662 The real question is why did they join the Tories?

Ultimately, it's all about class, innit!! All of these 'brown' Tories are from privilege, and have ultimately benefited from this. Compare the likes of Sunak to Jess Phiilips. A Tory is a Tory, whatever their colour. They ultimately believe in hierarchy.

4:00 You are wrong to suggest she got other nationalities,( I am not a fan of criminals)she lost her right to apply for another citizenship the only citizenship she got is British

You hit the nail on the head tomthumb.

Buddhists vs muslims in srilanka and Myanmar Jews vs muslims in isreal Christains vs muslims in Europe Africa and Middle East,Hindus vs muslims in India Yajidis vs muslims in Iraq

​@@drg598 109 countries?

I don't recognise these so called British values you list as being remotely British! A nation built on slavery, genocide, corruption, invasions, appropriation etc etc.

The whole country is suffering the effects of mass immigration, economically and culturally. If you can't see that, you are probably too rich to live in any of the areas where it is happening. But it will affect you sooner rather than later, if the figures do not go down dramatically.

You are talking about the Britain of long ago. those values no longer exist except among a few eccentrics, and least of all in the House of Commons.

It's an ethnicity too. Actually so are English, Scottish and Welsh.

You forgot to mention the British values exploiting other societies resources, colonization and making fortunes out of slavery? Take off the pink glasses.

I agree entirely! Anyone who calls for any reduction in immigration must be a racist. Recently we’ve achieved 1.3 million in just 2 years and it’s not like the world’s ended. It’s all fine. The UK could easily attain net 2 million immigrants annually. This idea of ‘not enough room’ is a racist trope. More people is good for business and keeps the cogs of the economy running smoothly.

or more likely - how can it be racist if they are saying it?

@@CarlinConnolly I think what Labour and left wing press are saying now is that if you’re in favour of unprecedentedly high rates of immigration, such as we have seen under the last 13 years of Tory government, then you are racist. I can’t see the logic of that argument, but I think logic left town a loooong time ago.

Sure, if Britons could speak plainly about race, immigration and crime without fear of persecution they wouldn't have an immigration problem.

@@rwatertree This sort of comment is usually code for not wanting brown-skinned people to move here. But if you'd like to prove me wrong then, I'm all ears.

be careful, current nhs staff is composed of workers from regions registering some of the lowest life expectancy in the world, especially for women.

But all that does is provide an argument for people who are extremely anti-immigration. It tells them they shouldn't let people in because it would be strange if all of their descendents did not want as much immigration as possible, and so on for those immigrants' descendents, etc.

not exactly hidden if they are paying for private education!

@@CarlinConnolly It was when they received that education !!

Im from South Africa, and i know what you mean. We also had a well-known racist called Mahatma Ghandi in our continent for a while....thankfully, he went back to India.

Unfortunately, such attitudes like that cause dark and toxic ethnic relations, as many of those sharing those thoughts witnessed in the county they fled! The irony…

Me things this has an issue

Ugandan Asians of Gujarati background! Very atypical I'm afraid.

How was Ghandi racist, considering MLK admired him?

"I see ex servicemen on memorial day." - that'll be the servicemen and women of the British Army then, not the English one.

​@@emjackson2289They can be both.

A point that this puff piece didn't even attempt to answer.

But if the drawbridge stays open for any amount of people? Then the castle is overrun. An island can only have so may resources. It can't have endless expansion of population.

exactly. why would i be against something that my parents did only 20/30 years ago? be against the reason i was born and raised here?

But, Brsvermsn is right, it is idiocy to have s free for all, they entered legally

@@niniwatches So if someone is the child of rape, its in the best interests of that child to support rape because otherwise they'd never have been born? Do you see the flaw in your logic?

@@dinghysupreme2972 There is so much complex nuance to immigration. Objectively, it is British land but Britain is not and has not been an objective presence in foreign relations. I think there is a cataclysmic shock to see Britain immigrants laboring tirelessly for benefit of a racist and bigoted empire to a bigger scale of natural migration, welfare/humanitarian migration, and enjoyment(isn’t it funny how well British superiority propaganda worked a little too well, and now people of other nations(especially immigrants) are being chastised for believing it like we had a choice. Britain already pillaged for global colonies and occupy many lands till today. Other than the understandable self-preservationist fear of the country being less ”White British,“ I don’t see why the attack is on just the symptom alone or act of immigration, and not on the collective understanding of the causing these countries the Brits severely affected to move. Why would you use an inherently immoral act to draw similarities to immigration?

@@oluomau.7489 First of all, the issue with immigration has nothing to do with the country being less "White British". Its about the fact that adding half a million people to the population each year is not sustainable to the infrastructure of the country. Health care, social care, housing, wages, taxes, are all being negatively influenced at a staggering rate. The data does not support the notion that vast amounts of immigration is beneficial, and this is becoming apparent across many countries. Hence why people like you use racial and social justice arguments like Empire and colonial revenge as justification, because you can not argue on the grounds that immigration is currently benefiting the country using statistical and economic data. So you must resort to "Yea well you're racist and mean." Secondly, I made the comparison because regardless of the reasons for immigration, both are having a detrimental effect. one is inherently immoral, but you seem to be under the belief that the other is only inherently moral, despite its consequences.

But that leads logically to infinite immigration. Because your parents were accepted, everyone on the planet must also be accepted.

@@georgesdelatour Perhaps but then the answer to that is don't be a hypocrite to begin with.

Thank you. To summarise ‘Great question. Now here’s six minutes of why the question is sooooo offensive without even attempting to tackle it’. I’ve seen better answers from Sunak at PMQs.

Reading between the lines, their integration into British society has become so successful that their identity is one of Little Englanders spewing the spirit of Enoch Powell.

As a first generation immigrant, who loves my children dearly, I can honestly say the one thing that would disappoint me most, would be if they ever supported an anti-immigrant party. It has nothing to do with “thinking they are not fully British” and everything to do with creating a sense of fair play in them. A better analogy would be looking at people who got their first degree free and then were happy to support the idea that future generations should be made to pay for their degrees. Pulling up the drawbridge is a very valid comment on the issue.

They answer the question pretty quickly. People generalise from these right wing immigrants that ALL immigrants are right wing. It's a form of cognitive bias. These are a minority of people who have joined the Tory Party and through forms of selection ended up being public figures. There are many people from immigrant backgrounds who have different political views, we just don't hear from them in public. So people assume they don't exist.

@@SetoPerrier We had a system of free student grants when less than 10% of 18 year olds went to university. Today, 50% of 18 year olds go to university, and the expansion has forced us to adopt a different funding model. During John Major’s premiership we had net immigration of around 40,000 people per year. Today it’s around 600,000 per year. Quantity has a quality all of its own.

from my observations, they bring most benefit to India and to whoever is getting the cut, Infosys being one.

However I wouldn't expect an Indian of any income bracket of social background who has made a life in the UK or descendant from an immigrant family would turn around and make the statements: "Multiculturalism ha failed" You must see the manipulation and tactics in these sentiments?! How can Multiculturalism have failed if you have reached the upper echelons of politics in this country? Who is Braverman talking about?

​@@dugebuwembo I think Braverman would argue _"I succeeded in this country because I integrated and embraced British culture."_ Which she would put in contrast with a policy of "Multiculturalism" where the government enables people to live in separate communities with different cultures. And I wouldn't entirely agree that people should be expected to assimilate into a culture. I think diversity and pluralism is healthy. But I do also think people should share a set of core values. And be encouraged to mix.

@@dugebuwembo She is talking about the millions of migrants living in a parallel society in the UK. There has been almost no integration from Pakistani muslims. Look at the huge cultural problems in London with knife and violent crime amongst the recent Somali and Nigerian immigrants, and check the employment rate for muslim males, let alone muslim women. Categorical failure.

@@andybrice2711 Agree! Balance is always healthy: keep the unique culture of your origin that belongs to you, is part of your identity, and enriches your new homeland, but share core values and understanding of the society you live in now. If you just separate on purpose and are hostile to the group that surrounds you and has taken you in, that creates easy hate and conflicts. And it's all basic, natural human tribalism we all are wired with. That in fact, partly fueled antisemitism in the XX century Europe back in the 20s' and 30s', and was a root of the Holocaust. Yes, there were Jews who assimilated into local societies in particular European countries but at the same time, the Jews in Eastern Europe were demonstratively keeping their way of living and traditions separate from the culture of the country they chose to live in, and were also often arrogant, looking at the local gentile population with prejudice and contempt as well, not to mention that if you read the Torah, there are many openly awful, aggressive views on gentiles -'goys' in there, and most of Jews were religious back then, all of which also didn't help matters in the 30s when all kinds of nationalisms raised their ugly heads. While you can never justify the Holocaust, it isn't about justifying, it is simply about understanding the process of how a crime as enormous and evil as genocide can be enabled and done; how sometimes genuine concerns and feelings of one group can be twisted, and thus help the process of manipulation and brainwashing of the ordinary citizens by political agitators with their own, destructive agenda. And as a result, these ordinary citizens later participate and make genocide possible. It is a simple mechanism: if one group starts to isolate itself completely and be hostile and arrogant towards the other group of people, and they both share a country/territory, the other group will respond with the same, because it is all primal tribalism, which we learned, to survive as species, during the process of Evolution. Then some horrible, evil populists with a hunger for power will always appear on both sides and only fuel the process of hatred further, and that is how stupid misunderstanding, plus the lack of will to have an understanding of different ways of life, snowballs into a crime of genocide. And that is exactly what happened with the Holocaust: for centuries the gentile populations in Europe lived with Jews, but both of these groups - not one, both - often refused to understand each other's different values, and religion, and isolated themselves from one another. This basic lack of empathy, goodwill, and education was the root of all the evil, the Holocaust. But the modern media and Academia often skip that part of the analysis of the Holocaust because Jews hijacked the victimhood completely and they don't want to look critically at themselves too. And people who want to talk about that - that nothing is black and white in this world, and everything has a complex background, are immediately called antisemites the moment they dare to criticize Jews. This is ridiculous, and quite frankly a form of wide and easy censorship, which deliberately suppresses the deeper discussion. It is also happening now in regards to the Palestine-Israel conflict, what an irony: the dehumanization of the Palestinians by Israelis/Zionists, and most of the mainstream Western media, plus labeling anyone who criticizes decades of Israeli anti-Palestinian criminal politics, an 'anti-semite'. So once again, now humanity does war crimes and acts primitively because of tribalism. We just don't learn from history at all, and this fact is terrifying and depressing. Will we ever be free of, and capable of acting purely out of altruism and love, beyond the catastrophic divisions based on tribalism? This is the most important question of our time!

the only difference is that the legal ones found a willing sponsor for a job @ 80% of grossly underestimated "prevailing" industry wages. Lets not pretend that the "legal" ones possess some rare skills non existant in the domestic population.

Why do they all become Mean and nasty Tories? Are they pleading for acceptance.

​@@geraldbutler5484 Why would we expect otherwise? Many countries around the world are more conservative than the UK. So it's inevitable that a considerable number of immigrants will become Conservatives.

I don't think that's quite right. I think they're more likely to support immigration from their own communities. But may well oppose immigration from other communities.

When are people getting the idea that the Tories are anti-immigration from? The Tories have presided over the period of the highest immigration in British history. They might have got into a bit of a flap over illegal immigration, but in terms of actual policy, they are the most pro-immigration government in British history. I’m really worried that the racist Stameright Labour Party will start cutting immigration once they get power.

@@Dav1d_I I suppose they need someone to manicure their gardens or cook their dinner. Plus every good boy needs a nanny.

dire need or workers? that's what automation is for.

The issue is not immigrants as a whole, but mainly illegal immigrants and especially Muslim immigrants. Meloni in Italy, Geert Wilders in Netherlands, Marine le pen in France, Afd in Germany, Pis in Poland, Tories in UK, Sweden democrats in Sweden, etc... all of these "far-right" leaders are rising in popularity/have been elected primarily due to their anti-Islam positions. Meloni said herself, in a recent interview you can find on UKposts from the Economic times, that "Islamic culture is not compatible with European values" and I would agree with that.

I'm not sure why you would expect that to be etched into people's psyches. A lot of people are really not that interested in their heritage. And even if someone does feel a strong connection to their ancestors, that wouldn't necessarily give them a deep empathy for all cultures. It might even put them at odds with some others.

And what experience is this? If they've been so hard done by why did they stay? It's all BS what you lot go on about

@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rpmay be because they had nothing to return to? Or it was even worse where they came from?

@@andybrice2711we are not talking about ancestors if they are a second generation, are we? It’s quite hard to ignore the experience of your mum and dad.

Pay attention to detail…

Yes, they are clearly taking aim at asylum seekers. Those attempting to escape war. And then they use the label “illegal immigrant” as if coming here because your family sees an economic opportunity is more noble than escaping a war zone

Illigal immigrants are a fiction of Tory rascists. There is no such thing under international law.

His dad is white English and mum of caribbean heritage. It seems he grew up among the upper class and closer to his dads family.

Yes, that's possible. They want to prove they are the children of 'good immigrants'. They throw other ethnic groups under a bus, without nuance. They talk up colonialism and exercise deference to the British ruling and upper middle class. They are fawning weasels, trying to masquerade as competent politicians. And failing!

I never heard of it,but it rings true.

My father is English (Liverpool), my mother was from Yugoslavia (Bosnia). The very last thing I want in Britain is for us to let in 1000s of Balkan criminals and gangsters. Mass migration only benefits corporations, landlords, politicians and criminals. Moderate, low-level migration is what is actually beneficial to Britain. Then you get the best migrants and if gives them a chance to integrate. The natives don't feel overwhelmed and are less hostile to the migrants too.

none of their families came on dinghies so there is no lived experience in that regard

the thing is, they would never admit to being in the same boat - they regard themselves as something better and completely different.

⁠@@bigbarry8343that’s because they are better and completely different to the other immigrants/asylum seekers coming over.

Why should we be sympathetic to the needs of economic migrants when we already have poor and needy enough to deal with in our own population?

Yes! No BS here, the Tories are oh so very anti-immigration. There’s been a shockingly low immigration rate under this anti-immigration racist Tory government. Only 1.3 million in two years. The economy needs at least 2 million a year!

@@Dav1d_I The Tories are the party of big business so yes they've helped them flood the labour market with cheap foreign labour for 14 years now. It also expands the consumer base, raises prices especially house prices and drains the welfare state and public services which they hate

@@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp don’t you worry! Reeves, Reynolds and Starmer are also very pro big business. Right now they’re in Davos chumming up with the bankers and globalists! I’m sure they’ll keep the labour market nicely flooded once they’re in charge. Then hopefully we’ll see even more booming immigration. To the moon!

@@Dav1d_I another story ;)

🤣

Your own background is very typical as far as I can find out. So where do you get the idea that more recent immigrants are different? The ones I meet are very like your parents and you - hard-working and with ambitions to improve life for their children.

Are you asking why others can't suffer the same way you did? You know there is a housing crisis, and asylum back log that didnt exist when you arrived. Some generations are do dense/dissonance about their experiences and the changes in the world since that time

Work was plentiful in the 50’s as the Second World War had just ended not long ago and so Europe needed to be rebuilt, housing was being built and it was before thatcher brought in the right to buy which took council housing away from the working class, the welfare state was created and mental health improved, it was the birth of the NHS. All created jobs and helped drive the economy upwards. The Tories destroyed this in the 80’s with their neo liberal Thatcher right agenda and then the world in general changed for the worst ie climate change created by the industrial revolution of the 19th century. This on its own is driving massive change as people can no longer farm in the global south due to extreme weather events, this then creates wars as people can not live and feed them selfs and fight over resources and so people migrate, as they have done when faced with such catastrophic events through out the history of the globe. You live in the past and that past is dead and can not be compared to the present, you can not rationally think and hark back to when you were young. The thing is that time you were young in has no bearing on the present ie it no longer and will never exist again

If you haven't noticed what is happening yet you are a fool, hopefully at least a rich middle class one - otherwise you would have seen the damage done to infrastructure by the sudden surge in population. We are importing over 1MILLION people a year, often from poor countries with radically different cultural values. Quite aside from the massive strain this puts on our infrastructure and the taxpayer, we have seen in recent months how damaging it is to social cohesion. How many of these recent arrivals would be prepared to fight for this country?