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His house’s destruction arc is slowly yet rapidly evolving

The continuity of your cardboard house as it slowly falls into disrepair and ruin is such a nice touch in all of your non-animated videos.

You got me until the Mimimi part. Framing that the studio shut down because they made an exceedingly high quality game is very dishonest

Fun fact: Noodle's house crumbling down is actually a metaphor of his argument and credibility falling down as the video goes on. Truly, an epic gaming poem.

“Tragically, the subject is nuanced.” “Knowing is half the battle, and battle is half the Royale.” No idea which one is my favorite

people kept telling me there were tons of devs complaining about BG3, but anytime I asked for a source, they could only point to the 3 (very tame) tweets/threads in the ign video, so the vast majority of this was people making up something to be mad about, which should be surprising, but is not.

I like when you removed context from what some guy was saying in his video and then you stitched the audio with overlayed footage to make it look unedited, that’s amazing. (Edit: This is the most attention one of my comments or any post online has ever gotten. Honestly, it's a little scary. I never intended for a giant flamewar to happen. I knew some argument was possible but all I usually see is like 3 comments below mine. I know my tone in the original message is snarky, but in my opinion Noodle deserves it. Us? We shouldn't be at each others throats, we should be searching for the truth. (And tbh I think we found it in Killa's video)

Man I don't know about Y'all but when I initially heard that "setting a new standard" thing my first train of thought was not "yeah other games need to be as big as BG3" my train of thought was just, yeah, this QUALITY of game should be the standard, nothing to do with the size of amount of content, but the quality. The quality of a product that actually felt finished, like it wasn't trying to nickel and dime me, something that was trying to just waste my time, bloated mess. The size and amount of content was nothing to do with it, rather the quality of the content and being something actually worth my money and by that notion I really do feel BG3 sets the standard.

I remember a comment from an Escapist video that really stuck with me: The main pitfall of voting with your wallet is that there isn't a true 'no' vote; only 'yes' and 'abstain'. It made more sense the more I thought about it. I can't exactly give a company negative money, and me not buying 1 unit of a product does not cancel out someone else buying 1 unit of the same. A company is only realistically going to care about how many people bought their game, not how many conscientious objectors there were. Audiences both casual and enthusiast will eat up whatever slop hits the table (no we can't just go blaming casuals again for stupid monetary decisions, they're not the only complicit party in this mess), and the machine grinds ever forward. Short of a mass exodus of these people who otherwise aren't inclined to stop their purchasing habits, nothing will realistically change. People need to ask what they want out of a game, truly, but it's going to be an uphill battle convincing people to care about it. Anyways, everything will be paradise as soon as we turn Bobby Kotick into a fucking pizza.

Something crazy about this is that the film industry has been suffering in almost THE EXACT SAME WAY.

The initial impression I got from this video was that those people were trashing developers for not being able to meet the standards set by Larian Studios, but going back and viewing the videos in full individually now it seems like they were just lamenting the predatory nature of a lot of AAA companies. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate some sort of follow-up to this video, especially when you straight up insult other creators and talk about how there's much more integrity on your end. I think the discussion those creators were trying to have was that the tweet thread was missing the point of why so many people are dissatisfied with the state of AAA games and why so many are giving BG3 extra praise. Something along the lines of "We're not saying 'Every AAA game should be like this' we just want our games to work and not be predatory!". Not saying there weren't people accusing him of saying things he didn't, just saying the ones you cited weren't those people and it's unfair to paint them as such.

Anyone else rewatching this video after the ArchWizard CJ video where he dissects every single fucking thing Noodle has said?

It's also worth noting that, even with Baldur's Gate 3 being a huge, huge swing, it's a lot more focused than people give it credit for. Almost all of the systems in the game were built piecemeal over the last three games Larian has built, all three of them in a genre considered by many to be _pretty niche and unprofitable_ up until just very, very recently. All of the money they spent, all of the content they built, that started from a rock solid foundation of already having one of the best CRPG engines and teams in the world, and even THEN they spend so much time and money making it that it was a risky moonshot.

"Cringe cometh before the growth." Wise words to live by.

Your ability to misconstrue the point is remarkable. People aren't expecting devs to make all their games with the same scale and scope as Baldur's Gate 3, especially not from indie devs, that would be asinine. People are expecting the same level of _quality,_ which should be a perfectly reasonable expectation for triple A studios with just as if not more resources, money, time, and manpower as Larian. There were literally triple A devs like Blizzard employees hijacking the original tweet. Stop with the strawman arguments.

I love that the examples you used for studios shutting down for making games way too big was the studio that made Gollum and the Saints Row Remake.

I'm glad someone is finally being reasonable about this. Games have fallen to the same trap as movies where budgets and scale has gone crazy, increasing the risk drastically, and encouraging low risk iterative sequels and cash grabs to compensate. BG3 is a fantastic lesson in quality and unapologetically niche gameplay actually succeeding, and devs should take note. But the sheer scale is simply unfeasible and even Larian is unlikely to take such a risk again. If BG3 had failed, I doubt Larian would even exist anymore, and such a constant risk as standard would be unhealthy for the industry Seriously. The replies under Nelsons thread read like replies to a completely different post

From an engineer's standpoint, it's actually really wild to see the ways focusing on the bottom line indirectly impacts the end product. Take Halo Infinite, for example. Microsoft and leadership at 343 started running the studio in the same way they would any other software development house: short-term project-focused contract workers provided the lion's share of the technical staff, and the full-time employees were mostly in non- or semi-technical managerial positions. This ended up coming around to bite them in the ass when the overhauled the Blam engine into the Slipspace engine. All of the contract workers who built the engine and understood how it worked, all ended up leaving once their contracts expired, in turn leaving 343 with huge gaps in their institutional knowledge. New devs ended up having to quite literally literally figure out how the engine worked before they could start developing it, which caused massive delays in dev timelines. Now they're switching Halo over to Unreal, which does not require that institutional knowledge that an in-house engine requires; new devs just need to know how to use Unreal in order to hit the ground running, making short-term contract workers a more viable model.

This video is a prime example of why no matter who it is, no matter how relatable or funny or talented or charismatic they are or how often they might be right, NOBODY should be followed with blind faith. Do the bare minimum amount research. Form your own opinions. Take everything with a grain of salt. Don't let people lie to your face just because you like them.

no one expects small or medium sized teams to make bg3 level games everyone was talking about AAA teams

I think the framing of the conversation is why people are agreeing with the guy in the IGN video and giving these takes. Like this wasn't a thing when Tears of the Kingdom came out or even Elden Ring both having huge scopes that delivered everything while still being polished. Its appealing to everyone's sensibility that these scummy business transactions gotta stop, it's a shame they took it out on devs instead of the executives that forced these features to begin with

I think the saddest part is that the Gamers™ are SO close to hitting the nail on the head. Holding studios accountable for shitty practices or lazy design choices is definitely important and understandable for a hobby you (probably) spend hundreds of dollars a year in. The problem is there's a collective misconception in how game development actually *works* and people just assume that these problems boil down to "LOL DEVS JUST LAZY. LOOK AT BALDUR GATES". Meanwhile the shareholders and executives are counting their big golden dubloons in the corner. BG3 was lightning in a bottle, they had the planets align and it's great that the world got to see it. Expecting every RPG moving forward to be the same without taking to account the circumstances in which they are made is supremely small-brained. (Nelson also explained this and people were still like "GIVE ME ONEEE GOOD REASON") If you want more games like Baldur's Gate, urge the suits at the top to funnel exponentially more time, more staff and a lot more money into their products. Don't harass individual developers like an asshole.

Noodle we have to know, where did the middle of LegacyKilla's clip go?

BG3 didn't RAISE any kind of standard, it simply MET the standard. The standard was set back in the 7th gen of consoles by games like Halo 3, the original MW2 and World At War CoD games, Skyrim, Fallout NV, Last of Us 1, Portal 2, Half Life 2, Red Dead Redemption, Dead Space, etc. Nobody is saying all games need to be huge open-worlds RPGs. That's not the standard. What all games SHOULD be is functional at launch & not constantly pleading with me to take out my wallet after I've already bought the game. That's the standard BG3 met. These days fewer and fewer AAA games meet THAT standard. BG3 does. Most stuff coming from Nintendo and From Software does.

Nelson's thread is like water. When added to nicely steaming vegetables it's nice, welcome even. When added to soup - it's barely noticeable. What he didn't predict was that the gaming industry has been cooking up some deep fried chicken with EXTRA dip. And the whole thing just exploded.

I remember being on that whole "vote with your wallets" mentality in the past because I felt very overwhelmed by the constant use of techniques that are used to either maximize profit or artificially increase player retention, trying to convince others that they should stop buying skins or ignore these kind of second job challenges most life service games have now a days. It took me some time (and several good UKposts videos similar to this one) to realize that I can't really do anything about it, so instead I just decided to stop playing these games outright since microtransactions, tedious tasks and other things corporations do to "make arrow go up" just heavily depreciated my experience as a player. And ever since I have never been happier playing videogames: Had a blast with Armored Core 6 and For Answer since I have never ever played a proper mech game, Pseudoregalia managed to make me not suck at 3D exploration, Friends vs Friends solved my question of what would happen if everyone had a gun playing UNO and BattleBit Remastered made me feel like I was in an actually war somehow. When I see people saying "there's no good games anymore", it kinda looks like they either have a hard time finding games that suit their preferences or can't get themselves to try other things, and I kinda wish I could help those people change their mind so they could have more fun too (or at least less frustration).

This take that fundamentally misunderstood and intentionally mischaracterized the arguments of people Noodle disagreed with genuinely makes me retroactively look back on Noodle videos and see them in a worse context than before. Nothing about this video isn’t embarrassing

the new standard is completed games. the quality required is 'not full of gambling/gacha/fomo garbage.' we want to have fun. i don't care how the chef made the dish - i know he worked hard on some level in my brain, don't get me wrong. and chefs have bad days, i get it. not every single time he makes his signature burger will it be as mind blowing as that first time. but bro. homie. dawg. AT LEAST KILL THE COW BEFORE YOU SELL IT TO ME. Imagine, if you will, if someone forgot to color the newest animated show. just no color. its not an artistic choice. they just didn't pay anybody to shade and color shit. you get line art. AND NOW THEY WANT TO CHARGE YOU FOR EACH FRAME COLORED AFTER YOU'VE ALREADY EXPERIENCED THE INCOMPLETE PIECE. And yes it's done with AI because they'd be damned if they spent their money on actually making a good product for their consumer at the expense of the bottom line. DUDE. IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE. NOT IN ANIMATION, NOT IN LIVE ACTION, AND SO WHY IN THE NAME OF ANYTHING SHOULD IT BE OKAY IN GAMING? It shouldn't be. That's the answer. And PS: don't shill for AAA. They don't care about you and if you let them pay your bills you'll get shut down by the very corps you tried protecting and working for because you stopped turning a profit for them.

I read a comment somewhere that said that the reason why BG3 level caps at 12 is because at level 13 in D&D, you gain access to the reality-warping spells. The developers wanted to give players the freedom to approach the game from any direction, but with those sets of spells it would have been too crazy and untenable. So even Larian had to limit themselves and the players, and they found a good workaround for it.

I think this is an issue of two sets of people talking past each other. Game devs don't like the idea of gamers using what is basically an Olympic gold medalist for every studio with publisher backing. Players are getting tired of living in an era where a lot of their favorite franchises keep disappointing. Both sides are trying to communicate this point, some more successfully than others. And a lot of people, whether intentionally or unintentionally keep missing the point and twisting words. Leaving us once again in a discussion about games where taking part just makes most parties miserable and mad.

“Don’t tax businesses, you’re going to hurt small businesses” is essentially the incorrect argument being made

My favorite thing about this video is how it stitches together clips to change their context while gaslighting and insulting me with the intent of trying defend big Corpo's right to sell me a 70$ game with 10,000$ of microtransactions that isn't even functional. I'm glad there are creators out there who have the rich corporate overlords interests in mind and seek to protect them and their right to rip me off with their crappy, unfinished, over-monetized products. Thank you, Noodle!

Armored Core 6 was great imo. It didn’t promise some big open world or grand things, it just provided a new game in a series I enjoyed. Good gameplay kept me playing for hours.

I've worked on multiple titles where scale and pressure to make something too big absolutely killed the studios involved. One of the largest and most successful titles I ever worked on succumbed to this. At the time, we had a massive fanbase and loads of hype. What started as a rewrite of the core killed the project and led to the studio more or less dissolving into nothing because of the sheer number of times it was remade, expanded in scope, and had new next gen features/tools added to it. We had everything we needed including developers, hype, funding, and drive, and STILL failed. The game that was just a week from releasing fully now won't ever be played.

Bro. My dude. If your entire argument was already solid, why did you have to remove the context and splice LegacyKillaHD's video? You literally forged the actual line to fit your narrative. He literally said that it wasn't valid for smaller studios and indie, which was your entire point. Why did you remove that line to fit the narrative that all content creators were above their heads? That's straight up lying regardless of reason. You literally lied to put yourself on a pedestal, nice one.

Yeahh sorry man but I feel like this video is really geared in a direction of "gamers are too stupid to understand" Baldur's Gate 3 isn't being praised because its a giant game in pure scale. Its praised because in a one time purchase, highly immersive, fantastic RPG experience that can be player solo or with friends, and it doesnt have any microtransations, battle passes, or anything. Larian set out to make a great game for the people who wanted to play it and it just really shows through in their work. It was a breathe of fresh air when every game now is asking me to make some sort of account to play, is trying to sell me a million things, or wont function without the internet. It's just a fantastic high-quality game with passionate and transparent devs that does what it says on the tin. I bought and played the game for 60 dollars and I feel like I ROBBED the developers. We just dont get games like that anymore, theres always a catch or a publisher that intervened that will fuck SOMETHING up with the final product or hold it back

The biggest mistake made is that Destin shifted the conversation to be about AAA studios with a billion scapegoat subsidiares they can kill off if they take a loss and not the AA studios with some actual stakes in the situation, studios and names you're barely if ever going to hear about unless they score big like with Supergiant and even Larian.

I love how Noodle is continually like "I'm not engaging in the conversation because the conversation is stupid, here's why and here's the conversation we should be having". It's really enlightening.

You see after watching both ArchWizard's video and this back to back, I feel like there was a big misconception here with what general people meant as the new """"standard"""" (and some people probably meant it even more differently than what I'm about to say. Thats how the internet works. Its impossible to generalize because there will always be a sizeable group of people who feel differently.) Noodle and Nelson thought the "standard" meant to a video game's scope and size and features, when people actually meant as a "standard" of quality, stability, and completeness. If there were more people arguing that AAA studios should make their games bigger in size and features (and I'm sure there are people who do, this is the internet) then Noodle and Nelson have a point. Its honestly the whole argument this video is based on. But there were people who were aruging that AAA studios should make their games stable, complete, and to a pleasant quality of not just Baldur's Gate 3, but great games of the past we look back on. Two completely different argument context. I'm sure there were people out there argued the points Noodle was debating (although he used youtuber footage that was discussing the different context so take that what you will) but thats not EVERYONE'S mindset on the debate of industry standard. Its like two groups of very loud people debating each other but they're not in the same room. tl;dr Arguing over the internet is a fools errand unless you can get an immediate 1 on 1 level to provide as needed context and clarification. Save your time and mental space.

Me when I post a strawman argument and give videos and statements with missing context and post it on UKposts specifically to make people think that BG3 is too big for the gaming industry when in reality, Gamers want the triple A industry to change, not the indie games:

I always took it as BG3 delivering on the scope it promised and advertised compared to almost every other AAA game out there. If more companies were realistic about telling us what people should as far as their games scope expect maybe we wouldn’t be in these situations as often

You've reiterated that none of these things guarantee a good game, but I feel like another important point is that a good game doesn't guarantee financial success. So even if you COULD guarantee the game would be good, it STILL wouldn't be worth taking the risk.

"One could make the argument... that one should do more research before spreading misinformation to millions of people... but not me." Well, yes, of course, you did a lot of research into different UKpostsrs talking about this debacle to make your misinformation sound smarter. Very cool and good! I do enjoy a well researched shifting of the goalposts complete with clip splicing and context removal.

the intentional lying in question:

The best game I played recently was a game called Freshly Frosted. It was a short, puzzle game about making a donut factory. It wasn't like... a mega factory game, it had levels and themes and a chill background story. I finished it in a few days in-between working. It wasn't big or revolutionary, it was fun. I think that's what we've forgotten, we want to have fun.

Gamers not understanding the media they “love” is always holding the medium back.

oh boy, I sure wish there were sources in the description to see the full context for the clips you've provided. :)

The problem with constantly watching videos like these is when your brain mistakenly thinks the idea that popped into your head is an original one. I (re)watch your and Hbomberguy’s videos enough to have ideas seared into my brain. This time I though, “hmm I don’t agree.” I looked at Mimimi Game’s statement, read and watched Nelson’s thread, with the intent to do a, “I disagree and here’s why.” Except the “disagreement” is just me restating everything that came after the ad break. It’s subconscious plagiarism which is interesting and concerning, maybe. Every time it happens I’m like, “oh, so that good idea wasn’t original.”

My main take away from the entire situation is that, in a perfect world, games would be made, published, and funded by people who love games. Who love the stories they’re making. That’s what gave Larian the time and funding for Baldur gate to be great (in the first 2 acts). Except that’s not reality. Corporate capitalism rules all. All hail the mouse.

"Cringe cometh before the growth" is one of the wisest things ever uttered on this platform. I will use this phrase frequently, thank you!

A good example of a good game is Hi Fi Rush It was just suddenly dropped around the beginning of this year, its complete and packed with replayability from the get go on top of great accessibility options and a wonderful heartfelt story. The only thing it lacked was marketing, everything else was just perfect. You can tell its a passion project. You can also tell that they have achieved what they wanted to achieve. It's one of the best games I've ever seen and played ever.

Reminder: he cut and edited videos falsley to support his argument. Hes a liar.

I just want to add that I personally tend to enjoy shorter games much more than longer games, because they are short. I like a good ending, and playing more short games means more chances for strong endings, I know many short games how have been able to write really meaningful stories with meaningful endings. I also tend to game in waves, sometimes I have a lot of time available, sometimes I do not. I often find it much harder getting back into the vibe of a longer game than a shorter one, so I end up letting a lot of long games sit on the shelf telling myself that I need to take the time to get into it again, but never really doing so. Also it is much less of a risk for me as a buyer, if a game ends up not being my thing (which has happened with some highly acclaimed games for me) it is much less of a loss of investment of time and money. It is also much easier to buy smaller cheaper games as gift, or recommend them to people not as invested (jet) in gaming.

I think you're right that not every new game should try to be huge, however that doesn't excuse AAA games gross negligences in other aspects 💀

I don't need _BIG_ games, I want _GOOD_ games. Most of my favourite games are listed to last between 10 and 30 hours, but that doesn't account for my fond memories or replayability. I can still fire up my PS2 and play Spyro if I want to, and I would because it was a good game then and is still good now! In fact, I played Stardew Valley earlier, and I'll be playing Earthbound some more later! Lariann made a great game, and it was obviously the game they wanted to make, but that's not the game to make for every studio out there. They gave us a shining beacon of possibilities, but behind that they have YEARS of experience and a company morale unlike any other. _We can only hope that big name studios will give their devs enough time and stable jobs to polish their games half as much, but sadly they'll probably take all the wrong lessons from the success of BG3..._

Hey why did you alter that Legacy Killer vid at around 9 mins? Really odd to do that.

Glad you showed Outer Wilds. That is the most gamely feeling game I've played in the last decade. Like, this is what being hooked into a good mystery and actually wanting to discover feels like.

The biggest problem with voting with your wallet is that some get a LOT more votes than others.

I think 'both sides' of this are misunderstanding at least 1 point from each other: What the devs featured/Noodle are misunderstanding is that no one (that I've heard from online, let alone real life) is saying that BG3 is good because it's big or just because it's big. They're saying that it's good because of no bs, no microtransactions and has a good degree of polish. And if people are praising it for its scale, another way to put it would be that BG3 is what we've been yearning for in big budget/AAA games for a while - the content of a massive game (although there is such thing as too much content/feature creep), with the polish and no-nonsense that mostly indie devs pull off. What players and other commenters are misunderstanding is that BG3 content-wise, should not be a 'new standard' but definitely should be the new standard when it comes to transparency, polish and no/minimal monetisation outside of purchasing the game itself. However, I was recently on the side 'against' the featured developers but one thing I thought was "Maybe the reason they're speaking out against BG3 or people that say 'new standard' is that if Ubisoft, Activision/Blizzard, EA, etc. notice BG3, they'll force developers to make similarly big, polished games but with shorter deadlines and worse conditions..." Also, DnD/Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro are not backing Larian financially, but DnD becoming more popular recently did help its success (unless that's what Noodle originally meant). And finally, BG3 is lightning in a bottle because of what I just mentioned in the previous sentence as well as everything else aligning just right (specialised tools and/or engine, community feedback and transparency and that people are tired of a lot of other AAA games).

This video makes me sad. Not only were people taken out of context to reduce a genuinely compelling critique of AAA gaming’s poor treatment of developers and consumers into “gamers are petulant children who hate developers being able to see their families”, but that it’s bland. This video just asks for things to stay exactly as they are. The video on Crunch Culture, on the other hand, was subversive, interesting, accurately represented the toll that the gaming community has on developers, and (most importantly) asked for change/improvement in the system. This video, comparatively, doesn’t try to say anything beyond: “Don’t rock the boat.” - which is exactly the kind of thinking that allows for exploitative systems (like releasing games half-finished AND crunch culture) to spread and become AAA standard. It feels like a step back. I really hope that Noodle continues to make things, I really like his stuff, but it’s just depressing to see someone who I thought was an advocate for better practice in the industry shut down productive conversation.

I also think No Man’s Sky is a bad precedent too. It was broken at launch but they took years to fix and support it with free new content. I think it’s awesome that they did that, but it shouldn’t be expected. I could see this sort of thing killing a studio that might have otherwise cut their losses and made a new better game with more achievable scale

It's really weird how everyone "wants" bigger games but everyone only plays the main story and the people that complete it fully are like 2% (trust me getting 100% in some games takes too much time when I want to play other games)

Somebody will be here from Archwizard CJ. They will definitely be here to bash. I’m just waiting for those floodgates to open.

Scott the Woz is the perfect example of a "wisepilled" gamer

When I realized people were searching "hours of playtime" to decide the games they buy, I knew we went wrong somewhere

Honestly, who is arguing that games need to be as big as BG3? All the discourse I've seen is saying that AAA games should be held to a certain level of quality that BG3 was able to achieve and scale does not equal quality. The scale of BG3 is definitely impressive and there is a focus on scale in the industry right now but that's more an issue of corporate game companies still chasing Breath of the Wild's success. I especially don't see the point that people expect indie games to be that big; I haven't heard that once as a legitimate argument outside of a few dumb twitter people running rage engagement accounts. The main concern is AAA studios imposing crunch on staff, maximizing profit rather than allocating budgets effectively, and the company heads bloating their own scale with the open world format and feature creep. BG3 is great not because of how big it is but how tight and fun the game is while being in a workable state at launch that justifies a 70 dollar price tag. That's what people mean when they say "this should be the standard". We don't want every game to come out of every studio to be these 100GB+ epic open world RPGs with tons of dialogue, environment interactions, combat scenarios, etc. We want fun games that are not half baked concepts or buggy messes out the door as fast as possible in order to turn profit for giant studios. Hell that's the reason indie games are getting so huge and have been for a while. Look at shit like Cult of the Lamb, Hollow Knight, Tunic, Undertale, Cassette Beasts, A Short Hike, Night in the Woods, these games aren't massive but they're fun, polished, and heartfelt. People cared and were given time to refine what they wanted to a point where people could enjoy their story fresh out of the box and I don't see anyone going up to these games and saying "why isn't this as big as BG3?" So yeah, Noodle, I like your stuff but this critique was definitely misguided in my opinion. I don't believe the anger or harassment at Nelson was at all justified and I think anyone saying games NEED to be 50+ hours to be good are dumb. Those are the two things I agreed with. However it's hard to even go after anything in this video because I've legitimately never heard any of these criticisms you're going after made in good conscience. They're arguments made at someone who either isn't there or such a minority in this discussion that it's hardly even worth discussion. Edited Addition: Also, uh, having watched the "discourse" section again, I have to say I'm disappointed. The sheer amount of cherry picking and context removal for the explicit purpose of attacking people for an argument they never made is honestly shocking to me. The IGN video was about how corporate greed is compromising gaming experiences, Charlie and the Official Podcast crew were saying that BG3 is good because it works at launch and is fun directly comparing to other massive titles like Cyberpunk 2077, Act Man was talking about worker exploitation and crunch in the AAA gaming space making a product's quality secondary to profit, and ENDYMIONtv was talking about exploitative business practices like battle passes and DLC and unfinished products being rushed out compared to quality full games on release like Elden Ring or FF16. Nowhere, even in the videos you didn't decide to discuss from Asmon and Spell&Shield, in those videos did anyone say that scale is a mandate for quality. It's honestly insulting to the people who you went after to pin them as irrational while also removing the entire context of what they're saying to paint a picture of them being mad that "game isn't big enough". And to patronize them by saying that they're not journalists, they're "misguided consumers conditioned in a way you and the "proper people" are experienced enough not to be" is genuinely scummy and insulting. It's an attempt to discredit these people without even hearing their actual point so you can stand on a soap box. I'm also sick of people throwing insults and blatant disrespect around for 20 minutes just to try and band-aid the issue with "this isn't meant to insult people". I understand taking the piss and playful jabs when it comes to making this stuff entertaining to watch but when you spend an entire video calling people immature ignorant selfish assholes you can't just say "this is for productive conversation" and magically the way you've been characterizing the opposing side becomes balanced and respectable. Same thing using MiMiMi as an example even though they were an indie studio (not AAA) who disbanded due to work/life balance concerns and not overloading their scope and going bankrupt. Not to mention the companies you showed as examples of "scope killing studios" did not die due to scope. Some failed due to making bad quality games like Forspoken and Gollum: Lord of Ring, and the rest were assimilated into companies like Microsoft and EA and promptly shut down when they wore out their usefulness to them. (This bit I originally found in ArchWizard CJ's video on the topic but upon further research, yeah, scope was never an issue for these studios). That's the entire argument, big corporations are shitting the bed with quality and it's time to expect more out of these big budget studios. We're not talking about baby gamer rage, we're talking about shit like Diablo 4, Star Wars Jedi Survivor, Cyberpunk 2077 (on release), Forspoken, the Saints Row Reboot, and so many more. It hurts to see someone who I respect and have sourced in the past do stuff like this and I hope that some growth happens. Until that point I'm going to be very cautious of any serious points you make going forward Noodle.

In this video, at 9:29, Noodle plays a clip until 9:40 [10 seconds of audio]. The title of the video cited, is shown on screen. I simply copied the title into YT, found the original video, and at 7:19 the audio taken plays until 7:39 [20... seconds]. You can see, for yourself, right now, 10 seconds of audio missing from this Noodle vid's 9:29 clip quoted directly as "-maybe to the indie and AA developers, which probably Larion could be considered that. But i just dont think thats at all -" . You can hear this section right now, in the original video, that Noodle shows on screen himself. That section, factually, does not appear at 9:29 in this Noodle Video. (Comment from Gecklo). Man, just watched the ArchWizard CJ video. I really think you are a great youtuber but the malicious editing of intentionally taking the gamers opinion out of context is too much, I hope you address this because I really like your content and I want to keep watching you.

Starfield is a great example. Like, Bethesda games just keep getting bigger and bigger. To me, Fallout 4 was the biggest that Bethesda was capable of making while still keeping the world interesting. Starfield is many times bigger, but it is an ocean-sized puddle.

"Cringe cometh before the growth, we're only gamers" hardest quote ever

Bruh you did not fucking put Pandemic and Lionshead on the same tier as 343 Industries and the creators of the fucking Gollum game.

Can you at least make a response video Edit: Shit nevermind I was wrong perhaps noodle did little wrong.

Noodle is the only voice in the gaming sphere that I always trust. Shame to find out he's a gamer though... 😔

For me, what I appreciated most about Baldurs Gate 3 was that it was finished and there weren’t any micro transactions or a battle pass being forcefully shoved up my ass. Idrc about “scale” as long as the game I spent 60 bucks on isn’t broken or trying to rob me I’m chill. It’s kinda dumb that ppl expect every game in existence to have a million hours of gameplay when most games don’t need it

noodles what the fuck.

I really appreciate the part where you outright edited LegacyKillaHD's video to stitch together the audio and remove context in the middle of the sentence you wanted to use in order to strawman the argument. And then the part where you referenced a bunch of studios that got killed by EA and crunched buggy releases as though they had been killed by overambition? classic. I almost respected you, once.

"The Crunch Culture Conundrum" plays into this video EXTREMELY fucking well. You are single-handedly giving people the tools to educate themselves.

Thank you for talking about this Noodle… I’m getting quite tired of every single UKpostsr, streamer or influencer repeating the same sentiment over and over again… A game can be short…. And perfect. A game can also be large, and perfect. It’s about the devs, the art, the passion AND lack of corporate monetization and crunch…

-believes in a bad opinion -makes a video to make people believe in that bad opinion -create fake evidence and uses strawman fallacies to make their watchers believe in the fake evidence -literally calls us dumb -doesnt elaborate further the whole video right here

He stitched the fucking audio in the middle of Legacy's argument and kept the video to make the illusion it wasn't spliced, what the fuck

You hit me too hard with that “could kill an entire GROUP of studios” part. Rip Pandemic & Lionhead Studios. You were legends. 🍺

I think the main issue is just the fact that big icons in the gaming industry misunderstood what the initial argument was and when sharing their thoughts just create echo chambers on tweeter. I dont have a tweeter account but when i heard about this issue from the actman i believe that the argument was that game companies simply saw how many players enjoyed a complete, high quality game that can be played at launch and started to get worried that consumers would hold companies more responsable for their deceptive monitization practices, their practically unplayable games at launch with a perfectly working store. BG 3 was marketed as a full game with no in game store to spend money on and thats what people want.

This is such an important discussion, you're totally right. You guys should absolutely check out Archwizard CJ's response if you're curious.

I cant believe this video gaslighted me to think this was good

Games don't need to be big, they need to be good. At the very least, games need to be games. I have not played a single AAA game in the last 5 years, and I don't think I've missed much

I agree, sonic inflation is insane these days

Hey, maybe the next time you use some of LegacyKilla's footage you should use the whole footage instead of cutting out the middle of the sentence you're quoting?

brooo overlaying clips goes harddd

*Don't pay attention to my original comment, please look at the edit instead* This is very well thought out, and very well put. I'm guilty of listening to the youtubers that failed to give any extra context or do their research. And in listening to them, I failed in the same way. Thanks for opening my eyes more to the situation. Edit: Wow. I've been severely duped. I wanted to write a different comment after watching this video for the first time, but I decided to just admit that "I was wrong in listening to the other youtubers", because it seemed like Noodle did his research. I, however, did not actually do my own research, and let myself get swayed in whatever direction sounded the smartest. This video, Noodle's video, is actually a horrendously good example of cherry picking, lying, and manipulation. If anyone sees this, please go watch "Noodle Lied & Why AAA Games Actually Suck" by ArchWizard CJ. I hope you're as disappointed in Noodle as I am.

Find it disappointing that he says he doesn't spread misinformation yet spreds misinformation throughout the video

alot of context is removed from other UKpostsrs videos

Can we really appreciate that this guy is willing to call out some of the internet's most influenctial gaming voices and tell them that theyre wrong and how they are contributing to the aspects of gaming they themselves vocally dislike, and im being dead seriously. It feels like Noodle really values games as a medium and cares about the people who make them, which is sadly something people dont seem to be doing enough of

I never understood why people blamed devs instead of, I don't know THE PEOPLE ACTUALITY IN CHARGE!

Homie you made a whole ass video just to talk about a made-up argument and then proceeded to take clips way out of context to suit said made-up argument

you know, i always got a pretension vibe from the way you spoke

The strangest thing is that we have unknowingly cultivated the perfect environment for developers to shine thanks to the Internet, social media and worldwide releases. Before, when a lower-budget title was put out, it wasn't even guaranteed to break even unless it was from a popular franchise. But now, there's enough intrinsic publicity that a game with a small budget, small scope, but sincere quality should be able to do well if it comes from a AA or AAA studio, without having to jump through the hurdles of overpromise and crunch culture. What I'm saying is that if Gravity Rush came out today, even with the same level of marketing it had back then, it would have sold a lot more. The same could be said for basically any PS2 horror game.

This video definitely highlights what I deem to be the biggest issue in gaming right now. Gamers have unknowingly become very addicted to the reward cycles instead of the actual quality moments. I'm probably even guilty of it myself, and at this point so many people are hooked on these quick cash-grab loops that they continue to fund them and make them profitable. Buying a new COD game is a bit like eating junk food. You know it isn't that great, but it hits a certain spot and it's almost like a guilty pleasure. You know you will have something to just hop on and play for a bit if you ever get bored, you still have 20 tiers left in your battlepass after all.

Hello nooddle, I adore your videos for a long time but... I don't want to sound pedantic but as a whole that's not how videogame development and hell art as a whole is made. Firstly, like everyone I would love to have less work and literally make art with my mind, but no, with that fricking mentally AI bros thrive and sound like sane person. Secondly, videogame development is hard (shocker) is the pinnacle of human expression and it includes a bunch of art forms and methods that we as a species are still trying to grasp. But that mean we should cut out our own extremes or artistic merits?. Lastly, what most people were complaining are about the quality not the quantity, everyone is tired (from both sides) of this oversaturation of Open World, better-looking than life graphics and half-ass mechanics not the size.

Damn, imagine fabricating an entire argument with cherry picked information.

As a fan of the official podcast, expecting the boys to thoroughly fact check a topic before discussing it, is like expecting all your games to be huge.