Recently gave up alcohol (red wine) and although this tempted me, I'm going to remain alcohol free.

A brilliant podcast where there was nothing to convince me to change my choice of 'no alcohol is great medicine for us all

It concerns me that potentially the drinks industry will cherry pick scientific research to accentuate the positive effects and play down the negatives. Really pleased to hear Professor Tim Spector say (20:00 approx) "...In general you're better off without alcohol I believe overall" - YES!

Latest research shows no safe limit of alcohol

Unusual for Zoe to be out of kilter with the latest evidence, which points to no alcohol being the best. And I speak as a huge admirer of Zoe's educational efforts in general, and as someone who drinks a large glass (250ml) of wine most days even though I know it's not good for me. It's my only weakness, really.

As a near non drinker with alcoholics in my family circle, one or two drinks a day seems a huge amount to drink. A study only yesterday said over 7 units a week can lead to dementia. It's important really to look at all angles - blood sugars, polyphenols, effects on brain oxygen levels, potential dementia in the future, cost, effects on your family of over consumption and so on. I know my skin always feels wonderful after a rare glass of red wine. But 2 glasses a day with food? Not advice most of us should follow. Too much for many. We all react differently is the main point. And what about the preservatives and pesticides in many wines, not labelled thanks to wine industry lobbying. I'd always go for organic if I could. etc.. It's a difficult subject to bring clarity to.

Much respect for the experts here and for ZOE generally but strongly disagree regarding benefits of alcohol. Ethanol no matter how it is dressed up is a toxin (acetaldehyde to acetate) that causes stress to the liver, detracting from its huge job to keep us balanced and this toxin is certainly not a benefit and polyphenols can easily be provided with a stack of other far more beneficial foodstuffs. This argument re 'Some red wine is good for you' is the excuse a vast number of people have hung on to and always quote when justifying their continued 'enjoyable habit' which they have no wish of giving up. I have not consumed alcohol for 44 days after drinking 'reasonably' for 40 years and thus far I feel 30 years younger so fresh never mind the considerable weight loss etc etc. Yes I miss my couple of pints of nice real ale (though glad to report I do not crave it) and the odd glass of good red wine yes....however, the benefits of not consuming alcohol far far exceed the so called benefits and 1 or 2 hours of so called enjoyment. Many many people that drink find it extremely difficult to stick with a half of a small glass of good red wine with a meal - not practicable for most.

So basically we drink a cancer causing nuero-toxin to potentially improve gut health and that may have a knock on effect of protecting the heart...althougn every type of alcoholic drink is different (and most don't have the bit that helps your gut flora) and every person reacts differently. Got to love science. 'Advice' like this takes a back seat to casual observation for me. My dads mum mostly abstained from alcohol, died early 80s of heart issues whereas my mums mum drank and died mid 80s. She also dripping sandwhiches! Both ate meat and enjoyed their meat veg (home cooked meals) and cakes/puddings. Both had positive mental attitudes. Either way I think whichever way I go with alcohol would have the same outcome and although I do eat helthier than either of them did - according to modern science at least, I assume I will also be dead at an average age. Which will probably be younger than theh were as we are exposed to more chemicles and will have longer exposure to microplastics (now found in human blood). Important thing is to enjoy yourself, be kind, try and make a positive impact where you can. Love the new logo by the way.

The thing I noticed this last year is that alcohol really impacts my ability to perform endurance sports and my recovery from them. Even a small glass of quality red eaten with a meal at lunch will decrease my performance the next day. I know it's personal, but a lot of coaches and trainers say the same thing.

Stoped drinking alcohol 30 years ago the side effects still linger on.

Traditional way of wine making in Georgia (country, not state) is different from European. Georgian wine makers keep the crushed grapes in huge clay cisterns buried in the ground. Grapes are crushed to produce the juice, but all the skin and kernels are not separated until the wine is ready. So from what Tim Spector is saying here, this type of production must make the most micro nutrients rich wine. My favorite is called Mukuzani made of Saperavi wine. Saperavi wine berries have not only purple skin of the grapes, but also pulp and even kernels. As result, Saperavi wine has very intense dark color and in Georgia they call it black wine. There are many other wines which often are called Saperavi by the name of the grapes it is made of. All Saperavi wines are dry.

Thank you very much for this podcast. I have a complicated relationship with alcohol, so I appreciate this.

I watched Tim on an interview with John Campbell discussing Zoe when I was studying nursing. I actually changed my diet and feel a lot better for it . I love red wine and enjoy a glass while preparing food then maybe a second glass with the meal . However John Who’s videos I find really helpful states that alcohol has 1 calorie per 1ml and very little if any nutritional value

My partner drinks from a pint mug and never with food. She drinks because she enjoys it. Sometimes she falls over or gets past the point of being able to walk. Sometimes she because argumentative and vile but she never ever gets a hangover. I gave up drinking over 40 years ago as I was usually horribly sick afterwards and always woke up with a hangover! I can remember the way that a couple of beers relaxed me and sometimes I miss that feeling, but I have become more confident in my old age and can happily rouse myself to dance in the high street if there's a half decent band playing. These days I'm better behaved than I used to be and I don't feel the desire to let a substance take control or need it as either a crutch or something to blame for my poor judgement! I don't mind being wrong or getting lost because I can learn from the experience. I think I simply have NO SHAME!

This was a most interesting and informative podcast. I have to conclude that Tim’s comments about the effect of genes on our tolerance levels is absolutely spot on. I am a 76 year old petite woman and I have been drinking alcohol since the age of about 10 (although it was confined to a glass or two of Dubonnet with Sunday lunch)).in my teens I moved to spirits and in my twenties the joy of wine, white and rosé but mainly red. I still drink at least half a bottle of wine every evening and often more.I rarely get drunk and I never get a hangover. I am of Central European heritage and both parents drank copious amounts of alcohol and lived into their late eighties. I am sure I will cark it with cirrhosis but recent health assessment my GP was able to tell me my liver function is perfect .Long may my genes protect me.

Great discussion, and for the first time I watched Tim yesterday through another interview with someone else! Suffice to say I am enjoying listening again and this subject is dear to me. Tim said in the other interview about "Personalisation" somehow rings true to me I tried to do my own diet etc after years of popping pills for my ailments and alcohol was an issue . My health issues were heart (Triple bypass) High blood pressure, Diabetes to say the least!. After 25 years of putting my trust in the medical proffession I decided to go "cold turkey" if you like. Th first two years I almost killed myself to be honest. As they do not try this at home!! but I did 5 years ago. Well why I am interested in this discussion, for years I drank alcoholfrom the age 15 years of age now I will be 66 years of age in 9 days time. So I stopped drinking now for just over 2 years. Doctors of course keeps an eye on my livers and warned me many many times of the consequences!! The first 2 years of DIY was not successsful but from 3 years onward was an increment and more noticeable improvement " I felt" everyday to today. I was impressed when I heard Tim talked about. Genuinely I drank a lot even during my cancer treatment couple years ago. Probably you think is crazy but it is true I never have " headache or hangover" in my bad drinking days. And I drink everydink around from Meths to heavy spirits. I had my days with the strong hands of the law but alcohol after my cancer treatment and people think it was "supernatural" to my friends and colleagues, and it was true and not many people believe it is true including those who enforce that peace of the community. To me Tim and you guys today discussion topic of today is very important from health and scientific ponit of view and I am very grateful to hear people who knows what they are talking about. From me though my best frined died from Methylated Spirits but the first person I shared my experience was my brother who like me drank a lot and more than a year to date he gave up drinking and off from all his medications !!. This is not for everyone I must say. But Tim and you guys just affirmed perhaps the word what had happened to me and others since I shared my story even though is not scientific. Alcohol was a very good friend in the past but NOT NOW!! Thank for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. I am of Pacific origin and unfortunately we are often diagnosed wrong because we are that lot !! Malo

Great episode! Very interesting! Thank you 🙏

36:26 I took the yeast out of the bottom of a bottle of Belgian ale and cultured it to make another 5 gallon brew. It was so lively it overflowed in a cascade of beer froth onto the carpet! It was some years ago, so I cannot remember exactly which beer it was. But the result was very tasty.

I would like to hear Professor T. Spector's opinion on sulfur dioxide in red wine. From what I understand, sulfur dioxide (SO2) is used from the earliest stages of wine production (to suppress natural bacteria and wild yeasts on grape skins) right up to bottling. It seems to me that the final liquid (wine) has antimicrobial properties. How will it affect the intestinal flora? Has anyone tested this in the lab? Are there any studies? Thank you.

I bought a bottle of 0.5% alcohol cider in the UK and there was no nutritional information on the bottle. After a bit of digging I found it contains 8g of sugar per 100ml, so the bottle contains 40g of sugar. That is shocking, no wonder they don't disclose it on the bottle

For people who consume a lot of polyphenols in their foods (vegetables, fruits, nuts, teas, and coffee) it begs the question as to whether red wine does anything good for you. I can see how red wine polyphenols might be helpful in people with an otherwise low polyphenol diet.

Useful but also contradictory at times .. 'probably no alcohol is better than any amount' but then 'drinking red wine with meals found to reduce cholesterol compared to no drinking with meals'... confusing. Still bottom line seems to be what my dad always said i.e. a bit of red wine with every meal is good for you. And as an Italian I drink with food anyway. Not sure I learnt much more from these 45 minutes... but thanks in any case, I usually enjoy these podcasts.

Thanks for the info on unique polyphenols in red wine. I assumed that red grapes were best to have so I've added non alcoholic red wine to me diet. It's really really tasty too!

I was diagnosed with add (adhd) inattentive type, after years of getting stress, (brain stress, brain fog, in overwhelming circumstances,) so was fascinated to learn about small levels of red wine being ‘ok’ as it has become a ‘medicine’ to me, and don’t think they mentioned anything about brain health, I heard recently typical dr eg Sarah vine, saying about wine dependency feeding stress anxiety etc. but on a bad day for me, (my brain fog usually worse in am, and clear brain late into night) a small amount of red wine eg 40-60, often around midday when had enough of feeling grotty, sometimes 80ml of red wine can make my awful feeing head come back to clarity

Thank you! This is a question I’ve wanted to be answered, because I do like my red wine too. And I have been wondering if one or two glasses a day, every day, is maybe too much. But I also drink home-made wine and water kefir, and eat home-made sauerkraut, red cabbage and other probiotics, hoping to balance everything out.

What about things like sloe or damson gin, particularly home made ones? They are left with the fruit in for several months, and in the case of sloes or damsons take on a lot of colour from the fruit. Quince or seville orange vodka takes up less colour, but is presumably taking something from the fruit being in the alcohol for three months or so. And although they do contain added sugar, if you make it yourself you can limit the amount.

I have been trying to get the balance right with red wine and this far what I have discovered that works is I only drink immediately after dinner so i get the digestive benefit of wine but can avoid using wine to quench my thirst whilst eating, as this often leads to overdrinking… and i keep a digital scale next to my glass so my after dinner glass pour measures 125g, and I limit to 2 glasses in one night, which means 1 bottle will last 3 days… or if i want less ill do a 90g pour for 2 glasses if i want the bottle to last 4 days. I find that organic, preservative free, vegan red wine with lower-moderate alcohol is usually the best mitigate negative effects. Also i use an air stopper suction on the bottle so even at day 4 it still tastes fine. Cheers!

Not sure if this is the right forum for this post. However, what I'd like discussion and help on is simple ways to fast ... Fasting now seems to go with the latest nutritional information. Some simple, attainable ground rules please. Otherwise, just a big thank you for opening our eyes to the microbiome. Still awaiting my kit in the UK 🙂

Red wine has been consumed in Mediterranean countries for centuries along with a generally unprocessed diet rich in vegetables, fruit, olive oil, whole grains and fish . Research has also shown long living populations of the world tend to be physically quite active. It's pleasing to hear a panel with some positive news about red wine and a whole food diet. Refreshing to hear some positives instead of all the negatives the media peddle.

I think the need for moderation and consumption with meals could have been explained at a molecular level quite simply like this. Alcohol metabolism requires NAD+ TO NADH conversion. There are 2 metabolic pathways for metabolism. One is safe and the other creates reactive oxidated species that are carcinogenic and damage DNA. The average person can only metabolise 7g of alcohol safety per hour due to the limited availability of NAD+, the rest creates ROS. So, moderation leads to safe metabolism. Food slows down absorption and hence more of the alcohol is metabolised safety. Secondly, NAD+ is also needed for glucose metabolism to create ATP. Body will preferentially use ATP for alcohol because it is toxic, so you have less energy which you try to solve by overeating = weight gain.

It's great to see that you've retrospectively re-recorded the intro to this video as a result of many of the comments posted. As constructive (hopefully sensible) further feedback, it might be even better to go one step further to explicitly and very clearly state upfront as a qualifier/caveat....something like.....for those that have mental health challenges, a genetic predisposition to substance abuse &/or otherwise more generally a complicated relationship with alcohol....etc...a complete abstinence from alcohol is likely to be the best & strongly recommended path. Pre-eminent medical experts with large social media audiences/followers (like Huberman) are responsibly being upfront about this and I don't believe this to be the subject of any informed/serious minded debate in the medical profession. The Prof. (Tim) eventually gets to making this point deep into the video (nice👍👏).

I've been getting hammered for decades. The mental health benefits far outweigh the downside.

Excellent, thank you. Any comments in general on the changes to tannins and hence health effects as wines age; and specifically what about wines from Madiran made from the Tannat grape, reputed to keep drinkers alive into a ripe old age?

Reading between the lines here, it would seem that going back to home brews of things like ginger beer with a starter that is reused and is drunk unfiltered at low alcohol levels would be a good thing to start doing again.

Listened to the end in the hope of hearing something about alcohol and gout/uric acid levels/kidney function. I'm a long time consumer of a diuretic as part of a CHF treatment cocktail and have seen all the evidence that gout is an unwelcome side-effect but no mention of research that would throw light on the efficacy of my religiously observed daily consumption of a couple of deliberately selected high tannin/resveratrol red wines with my evening meal. PS To declare a bias: I choose to believe a little bit of what you fancy does you good. I note that Tim or others at the top table here do not address participant questions, but, I hope, there may be one or two viewers with appropriate knowledge of these matters who may. Cheers!

Alcohol is rarely ever healthy. Game over.

What about aged armagnac? I've seen studies which say it has a lot of tannins and polyphenols due to the aging process

Can you please talk about purines and non alcoholic wines.

What about Dornfelder, the red wine from Germany for white wine drinkers? I’ve noticed the after effects after drinking red wine, are significantly less when consuming more than “moderate” amounts of alcoholic drinks.

Tim asked a question about why low alcohol beers impacted blood sugar more than the same branded alcoholic beer. I'm not a medical expert but I am a very keen home brewer, and further I've been experimenting with brewing low alcohol beers, there are several methods, but the basic concept is to reduce the amount grain used in the beer and / or reduce the amount of sugars the yeast ferments. So if a yeast is used which ferments only some sugars but not others, the other sugars will be left behind and may contribute to blood sugar levels. (basically by not converting the sugar to alcohol you have got yourself a low alcohol beer). If you simply use least grain you end up with a beer with less flavour. Having watched this (because I have auto-immune problem) I'm wondering if high hopped low alcohol beers could be interesting owing to hop polyphenols!

My husband is allergic….or intolerant….of anything grape derived. It can take up to 5 days for him to recover from an accidental ingestion of tiny amounts. So we brew our own wine and cider from fruit in the garden…gooseberries, rhubarb, apples and other fruits. Will these drinks have the same level of polyphenols?

We're lucky to have an outstanding kombucha 'pub' nearby. Most are flavored, but some are 'medicinal' with hemp, kava, and kratom. Likely way outside the wheelhouse of this podcast/channel, but any thoughts on the medicinal set?

Good luck to anyone with alcoholism on both sides of the family tree🥳

Well explained and enjoyable..... but what about the sulphur dioxide in most wines...is it harmful?

I am diabetic and when I have the occasional drink, such as wine with a meal or cider/beer being social with friends (only one though) my blood sugars shoot up and make my diabetic neuropathy much more painful. So I tend not to drink, then everyone thinks I am antisocial.

Tim certainly doesn't know his Begium beers. Abbey beers are often double fermented. Fermented a 2nd time in the bottle, hence the gut health claims.

Beer isn't just one thing! What about Saison beer, they use wild yeasts (a bit like sour Dough) Very few craft beers are actually pasteurized, (some cans even explode is stored improperly!) You have lots of species of yeast found in sour beers, brettanomyces is a drastic example, it can even digest wood! Ingredients vary widely, in terms of grain, that can be barley, wheat, corn, spelt, sorghum, rice and more... Then you also have fruit beers that have either fruit juice or fruit pure mixed in. However I will agree that a common industrial blond beer has very little going on... But simply saying that beer is dead and devoid of benefit, whereas kombucha is a healthful drink in virtue of it being full of life, is plain poppycock.

Nice job, appreciate the group conversation, and outsider questions . . . Long Format is Useful!! (encore)

Can you do one on chocolate:) Dark chocolate - is it healthy? White chocolate? Etc

Best click bait title! MANY people watching it with fingers crossed! 😅

I drink 2 glasses of dry red wine most evenings lowers my blood sugar 10 points consistently with Zero spike.

I heard them mention new data they looked at in the Predict study, including milk and alcohol tolerance based on genes. I participated in that study. Does anyone know if we will ever find out our specific data related to these things?

I like a drink at the weekend socialising with family. I don’t touch a drop all week. I’m slowly weaning myself off Alcohol at 54 it’s never been a problem for me.

Quit alcohol a year ago - never felt better, mentally and physically. We are an alcohol dependent society - people fear sobriety - which is strange - when you were a child you did not alcohol to enjoy life.

Red wine or posh cider👍 thanks sorted🤗 seriously very interesting indeed

I wonder if you have looked at dry hopped beers? Beers that have raw (dried) hop flowers added before packaging.

Love a few glasses of cabernet savignion at the weekend ❤

Isn't whiskey rich in tannins despite the distillation? And also isn't the alcohol first processed by the liver before it reaches the large bowel?

Can medication like anti depressents damage r gut health?

Surely the effect of alcohol depends on your genetic, epigenetics, epigenomics AND liver function. Liver function in my opinion has a lot to do with the worse hangover effects when you are over 40 (or thereabouts).

What about vermouth? I've read some reports saying it's high in polyphenol.

Is unpasteurized and unfiltered craft live beer a good source of micro-organisms and vitamins?

40:24 As I understand it in my research so far, glyphosate is a de facto antibiotic, having originally being developed as such? And if in fact this is the case, does not the mind boggle about its effects on our gut biome?

Yes!!!! Organic beer 1/2 glass

Very interesting podcast . Did I miss 'What is the impact of alcohol on your microbiome amongst the discussion'? Not sure Tim answered it. 🤔

What about the studies that show significant increases in baseline cortisol levels (even on non-drinking days) for people consuming an average of 7 drinks per week, as a habit over time (basically everyone who drinks in the UK)?

I do find this quite alarming !!

Does non-alcoholic red grape juice contain a worthwhile amount of polyphenols? Is the sugar content a negative consideration?

What impact do sulphites have on your health? The vast majority of wines have these chemicals in them.

The reasons I don't drink much are, I'd rather eat the extra calories with good food, I'm a competitive cyclist so I can't afford to put on the wrong kind of weight, it affects my sleep, I train 5 days a week and don't want to feel groggy. So the main thing is I have something in my life more important to me than the short lived feeling of being inebriated. I will have 1-2 small beers 1-2 days a week. I think having a bit but knowing when to stop is better practice than quitting it completely. ✌️

Chateau Margaux!?! A man of extremely expensive tastes!

All organic produce use fertilizer, many of which are “dirtier" than conventional.

Interesting.

Thanks for the Update

I no longer drink any. Canada's so called 'safe limit' has gone from 1-2 drinks per day to 1-2 drinks per week.

I’ve never drunk alcohol (34 yo). But I have recently started drinking some non alcoholic wine and beer. I didn’t think it would have any benefit so that would be a nice bonus if it turns out that way. I hadn’t heard of kombucha before. I’ll check that out as well.

Are you really recommending 1-2 drinks per day? On a completely unrelated note, do you publish who has funded your research?

Why does alcohol increase triglycerides? Don't alcoholic drinks have low or no sugar at all because it has been fermented?

I was disappointed that there was no discussion on the two main types of alcohol found in fermeted drinks (wine and beer) but removed in distilled drinks (spirits). I personally can get a hangover when drinking small amounts of beer but do not get a hangover if I drink spirits to excess. I add water to spirits to make a drink with the same level of alcohol as a beer. I would like to know more but there does not seem to be research on the possible different effects of the two alcohols.

Really fascinating. Thank you. I'm going home to have 1.5 units of red wine with polyphenols 🍷 Yum!

Probably the most expensive polyphenols in the world

Just treat alcohol as another food item, I only drink one standard drink with a meal a coulpe of times a month, I find Kombucha quite good once a week and plain Greek Yogurt I never have digwstive problems so must be on the right path .

Hello Zoe a d Team ....... What about herbal tinctures ??? Valérie ❤️

Don't care if is or isn't. It's enjoyable.

Gin ! Juniper berries! a super food!! add real oranges and lemons with lots of ice to then to be Shaken then Stirred.Heaven in a Jar.

What about sherries and ports?

Is cider high in, and a good source of, polyphenols? Edit: because, unlike red wine, _that_ is normally consumed *by the pint* - often 2 or more in a sitting. 2nd edit: OK I should've waited until 15:31.

Seems there are problems with whatever l want to eat or drink.

Great podcast but I think that the J-shaped curve for alcohol/health that Sarah was mentioning has been shown to be just an artefact by newer more advanced/reliable genetic studies as I have heard from many reliable sources recently.

If one is to look at the Blue regions where people live healthily for longest, there are many more factors to consider i.e. quality of food, enough exercise, living conditions, limited stress, good social & family interactions etc. I suspect that if one lives such a healthy lifestyle the effects of limited alcohol consumption are diminished. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I make my own wine. Friends and family were over and we debated the healthiness of drinking wine. The best one could do was raise the polylphenol argument and as there were red grapes on the table I said " go right to the source and help yourself". After a moment of silence he replied "Aw, can't we just enjoy drinking our wine?" I always limit myself to 2 glasses, roughly 5oz each of wine which brings on a mild buzz. If I walk around the block (roughly 1000 steps) after dinner there is absolutely no trace of the feeling of consuming alcohol.

Did I miss something? I got a little restless and skimmed a bit but was cancer not mentioned? It's been known for years that alcohol consumption is a strong risk factor for breast cancer.

fortunately i have no habit of drinking alcohol at all. never developed a habit of using it to socialize or whatever. so i'll continue to not drink. and fortunately i don't see it as some necessary pleasure in life. What does it matter if alcohol has a little benefit when you could consume things with the same benefit plus way more benefits? Everyone is desperate to justify their drinking habit.

No,my friend was run over on the way to the off licence,which just proves alcohol can damage your health...

Is there any health benefit to drinking whiskey at all?

What about scotch whisky? 4-5 shots every weekend.

Can you do one on water?

What about live beer?

The description of beer brewing is very inaccurate. Also the description of kombucha making. Both involve yeast (not "artificial yeast" - that simply does not exist). The yeast in kombucha lives in the "mother" the so called SCOBY which apart from the yeast also contains various bacteria. The yeast for beer making is the same thing, except without the bacteria. The description of beer as sterile is also wrong for the most part. Beer is generally not pasteurized, and certainly not sterilized! It is absolutely not just beer from Belgium that is alive. The jury is NOT out on that. All beer which has not been pasteurized or sterile filtered (which is true for most of the worlds beer) have dormant yeast in the bottles, though the amounts can be very very small in some cases and very big in others (like for instance in a german weiss bier or indeed in some belgian beers). I get a strong sense of "shooting from the hip" when I hear this guy talk, and it makes me doubt everything he says, to be honest.

What about Mead?