The rules of physics are same enough that China probably won't be able to go further than 7N without EUV without it being extremely ineffective cost wise.

@@santhoshsridhar5887 It really does not matter

@@santhoshsridhar5887 And when they do, you'l say the exact same thing for the newer version

@@santhoshsridhar5887 next year when SMIC breaks 5nm, you'll come back and say that's their limit and back again @ 3nm.. etc etc technology isn't exclusive, some may hold patents for some but never all.... there're always many routes from A-B

​​@@santhoshsridhar5887who know china already has EUV prototype

LOL.

You are right.

Right

The US have been playing Japan vs Korea, Taiwan, the Netherlands against each other for the last 40 years. Japanese semiconductor industry is pretty behind the leaders now but the US picked Japan to collaborate on next generation semiconductor instead of Korea and Taiwan

oh it's even worse. The US forced it's Japanese vassal to assist in industrializing Japan's own rival, Korea. And Japan does as it's told, like a good boy. Who's your daddy Japan? That's right. Daddy USA. What's more it's the US that mandated Japan's economy get stuck at 5T and stagnate for over a decade. it's only now that we have decided to let Japan become our antiChina counter balance that we agreed to let Japan reverse a bit of what was done with the plaza accords and grow beyond 5T. Anything bigger than 5T makes USA nervous.

I hope Asianometry guy isn't a closet-Falungong supporter.

@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 I doubt it at the moment but he should at least perform some background checks. Schneider is clearly biased and almost all his content is ridiculing China and anything they do. If he's not ridiculing, he's attacking. A large amount of his work background revolves around attacking China. In that tweet people are now trolling him with, he was damn near giddy with happiness with how the West is attempting to hobble China's personal development. This is not the actions of someone who is on the level.

@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 I dont think so. He just follows western media which is mostly anti-China because of US which props falun gong stuff and it shows

@@peekaboopeekaboo1165 OK, wumao.

Who would you listen to?

Same ! I think he had like a few thousand only

Yeah the channel blew up once they went to the 8nm process 😎

Ya when I caught on was around 200k ish he doubled up in like a year or so

When the mainstream media constantly spout fake news , these types of platforms grow further

When I found the channel it made absolutely no sense. The discrepancy between subs and quality. Few thousand subs and the best content on diverse subjects. I have a talent for finding great channels early that later blow up. Unlucky I can't invest in them lol.

quote: "This is what annihilation looks like: China’s semiconductor manufacturing industry was reduced to zero overnight. Complete collapse. No chance of survival."

@@webboy998 My guy was high on his own supply.

The entire US elite is high on it's own supply at this point. What started out as narrative that was meant for public consumption, for the plebs has become ingested by the very elite. This is called a snake eating it's own tail and it's how you get a dark age. The US is in the early, emergent stages of a new dark age. Take that to the bank. Generations of cynical opportunism has birthed new generations of actual true believer nutjob. That's how this works. The elite is high on their own supply of made for public consumption lies. @@bockcui5740

yes im sure he's credible, jordan is a 50/50

What a clown 🤡

Qualcomm 8 gen 2 made of 5nm tech is said to be $160 and Kirin 9000s 7nm tech is using this 'higher cost' say it's +50% more than 8Gen2. So, the Kirin phone will be $80 more and most consumer especially the Chinese will have no problem paying $1080 for a $1000 Huawei phone and now it's a "satellite communication device".

@@TheSolidsnake2001 This Huawei Mate Pro 60 have satellite communication mode by installing an subscription App. So you can get internet service in remote areas which is not reached by mobile network.

no, all he said is NS

@@xinyiquan666he is heavily biased since he is taiwanese dpp supporter but he has some points

There IS no good way to get to the transistor density of the likes of Samsung 7N, Intel 7, or TSMC N7 without EUV. There are only unprofitable ways. This is still the case. SMIC has been able to make something they SAY is equivalent (once again these are names) to the other companies' products they attach a "7" to and they have similar transistor densities, with their LOW DENSITY library, which is also important to understand and he didn't cover I don't think. There are different types of transistors that can be produced, and you can have the same transistor be in a low density and high density library. The name of the libraries should be self explanatory. If you clock something above a certain speed then the transistor would most likely come from the low density library and clocking something slow means it can be in a high density library. This is all part of the specs of a process node. It is almost certainly the case that SMIC can make something about the same as the other companies' low density library set for what they call their 7nm node, but they would have to use it for slower clock speed use cases, like a smart phone where clock speeds are much slower than a desktop or laptop computer with desktop being faster. You could also use it for AI training and many other use cases where you don't need the speed of a data server or desktop computer. Since Huawei is controlled by the CCP regardless of their lies (this phone launched without any warning, on the day the U.S. Secretary of Commerce arrived and was advertised on THAT day mostly with CCP members and one or two celebrities that use Apple phones, kind of laughable really), the CCP will subsidize it so even though it's not profitable to make a 7nm node without EUV using the same techniques ICs have been made for a few decades now, it will be made to look like they've done something great. But this has been the CCP's operating procedure for about 15 years now and has led to many noticeable failures. Make it look like they can do something great but the quality is always sub par.

@@johndoh5182 another pile of NS, all you said is about US companies, not huawei, there are only 3 companies in this world can do 7nm chip, TSMC, samsung and chinse SMIC, no others, US can not even do 48nm , let alone 7nm , all advanced chips in US are bought from taiwan, also samsung chips are taiwanese technology, their 5nm is only equal to 7nm , so far, only taiwan can make most advanced chip, followed by china

@@johndoh5182傻比

@pwu8194 As someone who has worked for vendors in the chip industry for almost a decade, it amazes me that chip manufacturers simply don't just offer our best guys a half a million a year. Most of the knowledge to repair and troubleshoot equipment is only in a few people's heads.

Why would anyone with any brain want to live under CCP dictatorship and corruption? CCP can lock you up anytime under any pretense. Long live CCP! LOL

@@coldspring22Taiwanese speak mandarin so it’s easy to work in mainland unlike any other country .

​@@ScoobieDoo-zy1rhnot to mention a lot of Taiwanese are still pro-china, unlike what the media suggests

@@meegz149 In a oligarch capitalist society, only the top wealthiest continue to get raises see increases in profit while everyone else just has to deal with the consequences of inflation, bubbles, recessions. Don't like it? Try suggesting that CEOs should get paid less you'll just get ignored and get seen as a "commie". LOL

They didn't have a breakthrough and this is pure propaganda. It won't be known about until the phone is dissected. We don't know who made the chips. The Chinese GOVT. announced this phone when the US secretary of state was there. HUAWEI DIDN'T announce it before it launched. Huawei has NEVER made anything original. They've stolen everything from Samsung or Apple or CISCO or Google or a handful of other companies. IF by chance a fab in China made these chips, very unlikely regardless of who says what, they made it using old tech. But it was already KNOWN one Chinese fab can do this. What they CAN'T do is make 7nm with a low defect rate, so it would typically be restricted to military applications because it won't be profitable to sell, but since the Chinese govt. is behind Huawei they'll subsidize it. China is the largest propaganda machine in the world.

​@@thelastofthehitachi972we're talking about semiconductors here lil bro

@@thelastofthehitachi972you know you are sick af when u bring non relevant topic here

​@@Ilovecruiseah who cares about the sick af genocide of the Uyghers as long as I have my shiny new phone.

@@thelastofthehitachi972 There's more freedom and human rights under CCP than under your crazy "democratic" mafia "government".

So hard to see truth out there. Everything is propaganda

I just like that he doesn't say WAHwei. Is it that hard to start a word with an H

I have actually been to china several times. And purchasing some of the electronics, sadly to say they are inferior. I kid you not. You are all free to go to Guangzhou, Shenzhen to their computer districts and buy products for yourself. As for this new china made phone, from South korean news, it is a copy of South Korean computer chips. How this china chip and phone will last compared to other nation's phones, only time will tell. Other china chip companies like Oppo failed, ZTE failed as well. So again, only time will tell is this new chip coped from 'South Korea will be a good product or not.

@@jeffjohnson5053 you know iPhone is made in China... also Xiaomi.

​@johnsmith-cw3wo they don't design any of it.

You do sound like a Chinese thief. If your neighbor’s Apple seed was patented or had a contract restricting your use of his seeds then your neighbor has rights, thieves don’t care about patents or contracts. But in Huawei’s case, even your apple pie used his recipe and his packaging. So your neighbor was kind to you for not suing you to stop selling his apple pie recipes. Only reason your neighbor doesn’t sue you in China is because Chinese judges like stealing technologies from other country and dismiss all IP theft cases against Chinese. I do understand it is hard to conceptualize what IP theft is coming from third world country with Bronze Age technology, but being stubborn about theft was taught to be unwise and punishable act by a confused sage 2500 years ago. Just because Chinese government says IP theft from foreign country is patriotic acts doesn’t make it so.

A cutting-edge 200 million dollar lithography machine isn't the same as some apple seeds. Also China's orchard seems to have flooding issues lately.

Growing an apple tree from a seed can take 20 years before you get apples.. this makes no sense

@@ascra1693 Allegory isn't to be taken absolutely literally - it is an illustration.

Hahaha, Is this a real story?

China will never let you feel disapointed as a competitor

"innovate" meaning they mostly designed the chips inside and out, I've heard no one answer this question. Of course they can copy well, design most of the chip inside to out? .... nnnnn

Did anyone verify that these chips are being produced at a profit to smic? No? Then why are you presuming they can make a profit? I think it's unlikely that they are making money now. That doesn't mean they won't find a way, but it also doesn't guarantee that this process will ever be profitable.

@@edfhobbies556 China understands that they need to develop indigenous technology. Simply copying (as the Soviets did) or rebadging (as Russia is doing) leaves one vulnerable; developing the tech oneself is critical for tech independence even if that means taking rather longer to get to a similar level of technology.

TSMC is using DUV on their N6 node. TSMC N7 and N7P were DUV while N7+ was EUV. It’s EUV that’s not very cost effective, so if you can make a node function well without it then you don’t want to use it. EUV becomes mandatory on 5nm class nodes and smaller.

​@@briancase6180in many ways for this tech i dont think china cares if it is ever profitable.

You could do a history of novellus before LAM bought them out

I prefer KLA

lam always poached all the guys from my friend's/our dept's plasma lab back when i was in grad school. They definitely have direct picks from most of the us's research labs and fund like half of their plasma research efforts

N+2 is just what they want you to believe, something they hide behind. A crude EUV is far better than N+2, which is likely what is really used.

China is freeing themselves from U.S and this is amazing I wish Brazil do the same thing but we are far behind

I guess: SoxalAir Liquid or...?

God's honest work, it is.

Linde?

ChatGPT, Bard, OpenAI or any others can give you better non-biased information than Asianometry. The information here are easy to understand but stained with slight CCP propaganda. Asianometry make it seems like evil America is controlling all corporations to punish hardworking China, but Japan, South Korea, Netherlands, England, Australia, France, Germany are all agreeing with America on China policy. That is why ASML, SK Hynix, Lam, SVG, Google, etc can not do business with China on some strategic equipments and materials. Australia reported another spying scheme by Huawei last month. Most technology journalists don’t report these because of CCP retaliation. Even Google doesn’t allow anti China UKpostsrs to be monetized in many democratic countries due to CCP retaliation to their countries.

only time will tell. I am betting on their innovation. When the world is against you, you can only go up

You can brute force a lot of things. We still don’t know what their yield or cost is. I expect it’s pretty poor. Not particularly problematic for SMIC, they can just dip into public money to make up for it until those things improve.

@@Grak70 And what do you think they will be stuck with the tools they have forever? It is only matter of time they produce their own DUV and EUV. Then what? Even more sanctions?

@@ZxZ239 I never said any such thing. Stop being so defensive.

@@ZxZ239 Its not a matter of time if they have only there own market to sell into.

RISC-V

Yeah Huawei wrote their own EDA software for this too. And ARM is licensed by ARM-China, which is legally forbidden on creation to have any American shareholders.

Huawei subsidiary SMIC apparently already has the ability to design its own chips

SMIC is not a Huawei subsidiary@@saahan-nn1fe

@@botdcypher HiSilicon, who manufactures tells it's ARM v8.2A based. Huawei used Synopsys. Using RISC V ( Open Platform ) would involved a total redesign of the operating system and all the libraries. Therefore Huawei has to give the code to the public, and they are not very "Open" about it.

that's faster then we expected!

Damn my 2020 Xbox has a 7nnm CPU.😂

Boy this reads like a bot comment

Free Tibet, free Hong Kong, free Uigher

@@anglohan5428 those has nothing to do with tech.

Mirror design is probably already limited by the laws of physics. It was brought once on the channel, a free electron laser generating EUV might be the next big thing (or maybe not)

this the shit niggas saying in the youtube comment sections followed by "I have little knowledge depth in the field" No other platform is on the same level.

It is also absurd that the United States banned TSMC from making chips for Huawei

😂When you reach the critical point, you will find that you are omnipotent and no one can stop you from doing anything

You should be curious about why US always gets so much hysteria on China's tech progression.

It's the best feature-resolution, the smallest item-dimension that can be consistently produced on the chip

Nah. The intelligent audience he targets is pretty small. He is getting 90% of the views he can get from UKposts. Some of his videos were a hit. But that audience didn't stay to watch his other videos. average views on his videos are pretty constant. That probably means they all are repeated dedicated viewers like us. GenZ kids with low attention span, can't really watch a PowerPoint lecture these days. Write a comment longer than 2 sentences and they'll start to roll their eyes. :p

@@Dr.Kay_R You are pretty accurate about the Gen Z kids🤣🤣🤣

@@Dr.Kay_R The reaction to Perun's videos gives me hope though

I suspect the equipment that goes into chinese semiconductors other than the lithography machines themselves is alot easier to substitute

Not much i think...China Does have capacity to create its homemade things and like he said it will just be matter of weeks beofre usa impose another sanctions and china develops another way tonit😂😂😂

no, in finfet era this nm represents none of that

It's definitely pros and cons with DUV and EUV. Double patterning for DUV. Then the EUV machines is very expensive and probably also very expensive to run. The EUV will probably win out the smaller the process gets. So smaller cheaper and slower machines or bigger more expensive and faster machines.

@@dalangwudalang2596 Last I checked (today) all Chinese fabs are still using ASML units. Not only that, what you say makes no sense: you cannot scale up a litography machine and still print the same wafers.

@@yoshyoka What the guy is saying is China has cracked the EUV light source issue. Rather than irradiating tin droplets with high-energy CO2-laser to generate EUV light, the chinese are using a synchrotron to generate the co-laminar EUV light. They intend to build a facility that runs multiple lithography machines (hence factory) using the EUV light generated by a 0.5km to 1km snchroton (hence giant).

@@nickl5658 Well, no, that is not what he is saying at all, at least, it was not mentioned anywhere in the video.

Limited amount of lithography machines, so no, they can't do it all. But then yes - except supercomputers, phones and cloud servers, desktop workstation, top gaming machines everything else is in their reach. As soon as they develop their own tools so they need not to import them for scaling up. And they do control output for most chips. Consumer doesn't care if his toy uses Chinese chip or Korean one, or Japanese, or American - consumer is barely aware that there are chips in products he buys - toys, fridges, washing machines, car sensors, abs controllers, light controllers, headphones, bluetooth speakers... millions and millions of stuff. They produce it, they decide what they will put inside.

@@adaslesniak SMEE makes SMIC's DUV machines, they don't even depend on ASML anymore for lithography machines. So the amount of lithography machines will be meaningless soon since SMEE is funded by the Chinese government to produce as many machines as they can the soonest possible.

They will. Its a matter of time unless ang mohs wanna do gunboat diplomacy again. A repeat of what happen in 1848. Perhaps history will repeat again as ang mohs are the chosen one

Once they take control of the fabs on Formosa then they can make anything they want. Until the US bombs the fabs.. LOL

soon they will make 28nm with 100% chinese machines. - no need for ASML and other equipment.

So one month later and the reports indicated that this chip likely isn’t even 7nm. It’s older and overclocked to appear faster. Total junk, just like we all knew it would be. Shocker!

6 months later and this phone went nowhere. It likely never really existed as a product. Everything is fake in communist China.

There is no such thing as unbiased journalism, all journalism has a side, even if it doesn't seem like it

@@araujofi factual reporting. Shares both sides of personal comment. No defamation. You will notice the difference in experience watching news and pure documentary. One brews sensation. The later reports what happens.

Putting American sanctions as something "hmm, that's just a detail" is literally choosing a side... like I said, everyone chooses a side, even if the person doesn't know, it's always subtle. Just as HSJ made a playlist of videos like "the trade war between China and the US", it's completely documentary and factual? yes, but they put up narratives as if China wanted a war or that the US didn't start with the sanctions and trying to boycott them. This is choosing a side, the narrative hides this.@@SiroccoSeven

@@SiroccoSeven may be factual but with inaccurate fact.

well, you've got to give him the benefit of a doubt@@tweedy4sg

HL? Half life?

​@@yensteelhand-lick

@@yensteel Highlights. If you get enough of these, your expected career life will be reduced by half

​@@applesb3507 It is Half Life then, for thier career.

Western propaganda?! They are literally Chinese people in exile.

LOL China hasn't made any chip breakthroughs (they steal others' intellectual property as they do in every other field) and is currently 5 years behind. They aren't making 7nm chips.

I bet we can see a redefinition of "international" in near future.

Keeping markets reasonably open, instead of closing them histerically, might do the trick.

I think it will become increasingly more and more difficult for the U.S. to justify its racist sanctions because we tolerated their "national defense" angle because okay whatever, but if they keep trying to block China outside their own country after China has proven that they can and will overcome U.S. sanctions, it becomes undeniable that the U.S. just doesn't want China to succeed which becomes morally untenable for anyone with a conscience to justify. Like how is the U.S. going to justify blocking other countries from buying SMIC products for example? They can't because it's stupid and I hope countries justifiable laugh in their faces.

The US doesn't want everyone to win, they just want China to lose and they win (scrap national security, it's big corp lobbying), at the cost of loss to everyone else.

DUV can produce 5nm with a little wiggle room. Probably 4.5nm. They should be able to have a 5nm node within the next two years.

@@OccultDemonCassette DUV already can produce 2nm GAA transistors in lab setting. Being able to produce doesn't mean it can manufacture efficiently, especially the yield go down and numbers of masks it requires can go up quickly.

@@zombielinkinpark true. We'll just have to see what they can manage to pull off with it.

even if they don't have EUV, then there is 1000% chance they already have thousands of engineers working on it as we speak.

@@zombielinkinparkHuawei cooperated with SMIC and a couple of state-owned research institutes, universities as well as Chinese companies is developing next generation VGAAFET process. It is believed they can make it within 1-3 years.

More like it kinda looks like they understand operational security when fighting a tech war, whereas Americans don't.

@@vlhc4642 Chinese copy everything the West makes but much more poorer made. 🇨🇳

@@vlhc4642 it stifles innovation tho, even if it improves security

@@anglohan5428 huh?

@@_Chad_ThunderCock close down Wuhan CCP bio labs 🇨🇳

TSMC produces that node not Qualcomm

Neither Qualcomm nor MediaTek fabs chips. They both design chips made by TMSC

That is why I wrote a targeted article

wrrrg

I hope one day Huawei can have android on their phones again. They are good phones, it's just almost unusable outside of China with their own system at the moment.

@@KuangTu They still have android, just their own flavor of it based on the android open source project, where they cant include google services due to sanctions, though there are workarounds for this if you really want to.

​@@mactep1 Thanks for the info. It's just very inconvenient or difficult for less tech savvy consumer to go through to get the phone with the google services they need.

I stopped buying Chinese brands for geopolitical reasons. Are there Chinese parts in other phones? Sure.

Unfortunately it's not only Google, some China only phones also can't handle security systems for banking and /or can't play western streaming services like Netflix in full resolution iv heard in case of actual Huawei phones. At least unusable if you want more than taking good pictures and do some random calls.

The real surprise will come from china's homegrown risc-v ISA, OpenXiangshan. Probably the last generation of huawei phones with any arm IP at all.

@@Guywith2usernames That's not really homegrown when someone else came up with the base IP. And the software isn't fully fleshed out yet. It's getting there bit by bit they add more to the Linux kernel.

It's policy wonks that don't understand how technology works.

Why does he say "we" when speaking of advances that benefit the Chinese Communist Party?

Because he is secretly a CCP member? Is that what you want to hear? Or maybe he is just anti-American, anti-hegemony, anti-bullying? @@hg2.

i think it is a 0nm chip. how about that :))

Do you also miss being spied on?

I had a 200 dollar Huawei and it was horrible. The screen died very fast and the battery lost its charge relatively quick. My brother's phone did the same. Now we are using Samsung again and we are happy with them.

​@Sniperboy5551 now I get spied on by the NSA instead what's the difference?

@Sniperboy5551 worth it for how good the camera was really lol

​@@Sniperboy5551you're being spied on no matter who produces the communication device. Remember that whole Edward Snowden document leak thing? It doesn't matter what country you're in - American tech is spying on you.

If you neatly scrutinize the EUV machine , you'll find it has far less set on lenses in the proless than DUV. Only some critical parts have to be broken in. So it is not so hard or so easy to build in near future.

China just makes its own EUV lithography machine. What connections is your brain failing to make here?

“Will always exist” yeah give it a few years

What "paradigm shift?" You mean the one that features spontaneous combustion?

Huawei had filed an EUV patent last year. I think the main different between EUV and DUV is the light source. Using DUV source light for smaller node resulting in low yield rate due to something with the light. But if you read Huawei EUV patent, they actually hacked how the source light works. So it can be used at smaller node with high yield rate. You can search Huawei EUV Patent.

They dont predict they announce

@@JameBlack But still, two years ahead?

Forecasting based on how the development is going and comparisons to previous process histories. I mean, they don't always get it right: 3N was too late to be used for the apple A16.

India is already working on making 1 picometer chips for the world. Now! that's marvelous.

you might be on to somthing there , because they might be even lying to us the nanometres all along, they might be just overclocking chips. i wonder how they predict too.

I'm a little confused by what he meant by the South Korea path. South Korea made a typical technology catchup and then surpassing, which is normal in every technology. Did he mean something different that S.Korea did or is he just assigning this normal process to South Korea?

@@sumyamchi He's got some previous video on the subject.

You mean like the P cores from Intel CPUs? I mean months ago they said they made a new CPU. It was an Intel CPU where lasers erased the markings and new markings added. Huawei has never designed anything, they've copied everything. They're the worst offender of IP theft of ANY company in electronics EVER.

@@johndoh5182u r what it’s exhibit A of cries for dying American empire and the dying Anglo Saxon race. Rest assure, the future is a world without west in it

@@aa-hb3tg Aww found the chinshill fellas.

@@johndoh5182 To be specific, the Chinese Powerstar CPUs are rebadged Intel Comet Lake chips. I believe there was also a Russian company that released Intel CPUs remarked to appear domestically-produced.

@@alexhajnal107 If they use Intel IP core , they surely have an IP license allowed. Because Intel still has business in China. There are Taiwan business that has its own X86 licenses from taken over the US X86 defuncted company , and they corporate with China in making their own X86 chip.