US military vet here. Anyone who's been in combat will tell you that the psychopaths do VERY well under fire. Psychopathy is absolutely essential in wartime (as Chris mentions), because you need those guys who are fearless and ruthless. They don't hesitate, they act. Saw it in action. Psychopaths emerge from combat theaters with a chest full of medals. But those same guys, turned loose in civilian life, can be monsters. I saw that, too.

Impressive. Very nice. Now let’s see Paul Allen’s assessment.

My friend's dad said that, in the war he fought in, the "psychos" were the one's who kicked butt on the front lines. No fear, vicious, and terribly effective in battle.

Talking about the researcher James Fallon, and yes, he did ask his wife, kids, close associates for an honest, frank appraisal of him. They all said, "yep. we've known for some time that you were a psychopath." He goes on to say that their feedback didn't really bug him, further substantiating his psychopathy. 😂

"Look at that subtle colouring. The tasteful thickness. Oh my God. It even has a watermark." Thanks for having me mate!

There's a high percentage of psychopaths among medical professionals, particularly surgeons. In that context, it is probably adaptive to be cold, calculating, and emotionless ... you don't want someone's emotions overcoming them when they're cutting you open. It probably also accounts for the extreme arrogance and dismissiveness often encountered in medical settings. EDIT: One of the commenters correctly points out that medical professionals score higher on psychopathic traits than the general population. That doesn't necessarily make them proper psychopaths. An important clarification.

As a psychotherapist, I have seen psychopathic tendencies and worked with those with antisocial personality disorder (the diagnosis used for this term). However some of the comments on behaviors witnessed by people they know could also be how trauma effects the brain. It’s a coping mechanism when people are exposed to traumatic things, especially over and over to become detached and cold. They also failed to mention that the researcher likely had a good upbringing, was nurtured and has low ACE scores. Individuals with the wiring to be psychopaths- combine that with neglect, poverty, abuse or childhood trauma- more likely to lead to use of drugs and to criminal acts. This is fact. Healthy attachments will allow people to develop into individuals who can live in society, hold down jobs, abide by laws and have families.

Super fascinating. I think self awareness is key to addressing this issue personally and as a society.

The book is called the psychopath inside. He found that without trauma in their life psychopaths will most likely not commit serious crimes.

Psychopaths and sociopaths can do things in society that others can find difficult emotionally. As well as raiding parties: surgeons, collecting of dead and post mortem, executioner, negotiators, lawyers, crime investigators, CEOs, traders and high level finance, politicians are just some that come to mind.

James Fallon is the professor he’s speaking of. I met him on a shuttle from the airport years ago. Nicest, most interesting person I’ve met. He’s done a lot of interviews regarding this and other mental stuff. So fascinating!

It is well understood that many ceos of major corporations would be considered psychopathic. Having a personality trait that allows them to make decisions indifferent of impacts to people/employees allows decisions to be made to benefit the company exclusively. Also surgeons are often psychopathic. This benefits their performance as they are able to view the patient as an object with its components rather than a human being with feelings and emotions. This allows them to focus on the task at hand.

I came to this realization on my own actually. When I was in the military I worked with a guy, who I’m 99% sure was a psychopath. He was an old school guy who had been in for almost 20 years. He had been on many deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq. He would openly talk about some of the most horrific shit that he saw, and go into extreme detail. He would even laugh when describing thing like, taliban accidentally blowing themselves up with IEDs, or blowing a hole in a guys face with a breaching shotgun. It was disturbing at first, how little of an effect this had on him. Then one day, he was telling a story (I don’t remember about what) and my 1SG says to him, “damn bro, I wish I could get over shit as easy as you”, and he goes, “I never even had to get over it, I was just ok with it”. That’s when I realized he’s crazy. Good dude all things considered.

There is an interesting documentary of the man who did the study on Psychopathy -and found out he was one himself. I loved the part where they interviewed his family and his brother said it all made sense. When the psychopathic brother got angry, he'd start a relentless pursuit for vindication. The family reasoned that it was their loving family structure that kept him in line to a fair degree.

Dudes got some excellent pen flipping skills at the end there

This was so interesting, need to watch the whole podcast now!

As a Brit, I'm proud of Chris Williamson and his journey as a podcaster. Wish him luck in his US journey. He's a skilled podcaster.

This falls under the same banner as anxiety. Back when we survived by sticking together in tribes, we needed highly alert and restless members to detect threats during the night when everyone else was sleeping. Anxious people were extremely valuable. If everyone in the tribe was super relaxed and slept through thunderstorms, well you'd all be screwed. The issue with anxiety in todays world is that it has no place. Like an old alarm system with malfunctioning sensors. But not so long ago it was a crucial survival instinct that kept us, and others alive. I believe this can still be observed in the social hierarchy of Chimpanzees and other species of monkeys.

Chris is such a great communicator

This episode was informative. I love this channel

Wow I’m so glad they left the last part about narcissism in. I used to have two terribly toxic friends that got so nasty when I cut my friendship off with them and everything he said about vulnerable narcissists is spot on for them. I could never quite describe to people why they were so awful and now I can.

I don't know when they changed the rules in the DSM but when I studied Psychology in college it was well understood that criminal behavior are Psychopathy was correlated but not required. There are many high functioning people in very large organizations that got there bc of their ability to not care about the consequences.

Hey! Great conversation by the way, but I really wanted to say. I have been watching JRE for about 12 years. It has really changed my life in many positive ways!! Mostly because of the variety of people Joe has had on, and the eclectic topics that get discussed!! From Health, eating and sleep. To philosophy and morals etc!! And the surprises!! I watched the Kat Williams interview today. I was totally shocked by the subjects they spoke about. I didn't know much about Kat outside of his stand up. Turns out they are made for each other! Also!! Partly because I'm English maybe, but I love this Chris Williamson guy. And like many of his classic guests. Feel like Chris is one of them now. I could listen to these two aaaaalll day very happily!! 😁😁

I think I might be a vulnerable narcissist. Not as bad as I once was about it though. Took a lot of pain and torment to realize it and mitigate its impact on myself and the world around me.

Back in the day, an outlaw was someone who had traveled from one town to another. In the 1200s, if you were traveling to another town by yourself, it’s probably because you killed somebody in the last town you were in. The sheriff used to go from town to town investigating whether there were any major crimes to report, but also whether there were any outlaws, meaning just that there was someone new in town. I learned this in English legal history in law school.

I dealt with a Psychopath Narcissists 2 years ago... Freaking Terrifying!! And that's exactly what He does. Once people figure him out in an area, he just moves....

Think this conversation has been very enlightening, especially what is going on right now in the world.

This guy Chris is so smooth and eloquent

"He may be a psychopath, but he's our psychopath". Generation Kill (2008). Great series.

I learned the most important phrase in the army It was in relation to soldiers... but it actually makes more sense to me in relation to humans... Theres no such thing as a bad person/soldier. There are only improperly motivated people/soldiers....

This was very mind blowing

So happy for Chris this is a huge moment in his career and he fully deserves it! Modern wisdom is my daily fix, keep up the great work brother.

Just because most of the psychopaths in the worlds of banking, finance, politics, military, media, and entertainment haven't yet been caught for committing crimes doesn't mean that's not what's happening. It doesn't make them any less psychopathic. They have a system around them to hide their crimes and pin it onto others

I used to work at a psych facility with patients, the nurses used to use the Psych Techs that were a little off when patients got out of hand

This was fascinating. And terrifying. CW = GREAT guest.

I’m so proud of Chris! What a journey

That neurologist finding out he was a psychopath in the course of studying psychopaths' brain scans sounded like such a "...and they found out the call was coming from UPSTAIRS" story I had to google it, lol.

Vulnerable narcissism looks like people without confidence.

Yea I'm that guy too. Always think ill self destruct eventually but never do. I have zero emotions. It bothers others. Especially when you have kids

Chris Williamson mentions that there is a point system to determine who meets the criteria of being a "psychopath". Almost everyone will experience a psychopathic tendency, whether in regards to a particular thing or a product of what is around them. Just like mental health in general, usually these actions are never cause for concern until a significant portion of your daily life or others are effected by those tendencies in a significant way. This being said, those who deal with high stress situations, emergency services, bosses, service men, leaders, will be required to act very differently than most so they can think clearly, to increase the neural pathways and circuits through repetition, to be able to respond effectively.

U made it chris...we love u...what an episode this was... complete gold ❤️

I enjoyed this very much

Not all psychopaths decide to do bad things. You can lack empathy and be really good at your job. It's less of a distraction and you come off as confident.

I think if you examine the top of any hierarchy, you'll find that psychopathy probably isn't uncommon at the top in the leadership bracket. There's a reason so many of these people become uber successful. Turns out it's a trait that relentlessly pushes people to seeking status and power.

2 masters of the podcast conversation, a beautiful flow ....erudite ....concise...interesting and inspiring! Right up there with some of my all time favourite rogan episodes!

Psychopathy is a personality disorder. Referred to antisocial personality disorder is DSM V. So just like borderline personality, narcissistic personality, histrionic personality…. Anyone can easily meet the criteria. However narcissism and antisocial personality are the two that have much less distressing impacts in the individual. People with the other personality disorders often experience a lot of distress and awareness of their poor functioning. I’m a psychologist and work with people with severe mental health difficulties daily. And I scored 34 on the psychopath checklist. The checklist by Dr Robert Hare but I have never committed a crime.

Incredible video!

Lookup Sam Vaknin, a professor in psychology. He’s by far one of the most educated people on this Earth when it comes to Narcissism, psychopathy, and other mental disorders. It’s a lot more complex than people would ever imagine with a lot of overlap.

Congrats to Chris. Big move being able to do JRE far earlier than anticipated.

Agree with everything that actions separate. I feel like your surroundings have a lot to do with that. A good support system will pull you back away from acting on these perpetual feelings.

i love learning about myself

4:02 "who the f are all these people in my house and eating my food" 😆 sounds just like my dad

Happy to see Chris here, i have followed him for some time, and have really come to like him

You don’t have to be a psychopath to not have a problem killing people. Especially if there is a cause/reason to defend or anything like that. Some people miss some sensitivity buttons, while other kind of sensitivity is still there. Not all people are the same.

Were going to need it again soon

Chris is brilliant, and he's getting better and better.

Watching joes podcast guarantees me to always have a interesting convo that I bring to the table🤣

I was a participant in one of these studies. It fulfills all the volunteer credits you need for the entire semester.

Great clip!

I think you’re talking about James Fallon who did brain scans on psychopaths at UC Irvine back in the 2000s and found out he has the same psychopathic characteristics in his own brain scans!

Psychopathy is my new favorite word. I will use it in everyday conversation from now on.

Enjoyed it!

Great video

Pretty cool to see Chris on the podcast. Crazy how he first came on the scene on Love Island. His podcast is great, definitely check it out.

same for special forces units, lots of them score high in psychopathy which is really useful since they are in highly traumatic and stressful situations, and being able to easily regulate emotions would be very useful. Also you would guess that there would be psychopaths in jobs like spec ops since these jobs might bring the thrill, but will also bring immense prestige as well.

This is incredibly interesting!

I had a boss who was a grandiose narcissist with psychopathy (his ex-wife’s therapist told her he seemed to have the traits). He brought a gun to work and threatened to blow my co-workers brains out for losing a deal. A family member is a vulnerable narcissist (diagnosed by a psychologist). I’m MUCH more afraid of her. My former boss was like a house cat. He’d probably murder someone if he thought he could get away it. But at the end of the day knows who fills his food bowl. She’s more like an anxious rat terrier that was beaten as a puppy. She’s a terrible combination of fearful and aggressive. She’s completely unpredictable.

Yup. Our unit psychiatrist told us that if we didn’t have trauma after our deployment we should really worry. He made it easier for us to get therapy when we got home.

Always fun when these guys describe your best personality traits

Great clip.

Made my day!

What’s very hurtful and sad to me is it who they’re talking about n they put it in words that I could never explain. I want to heal n be better but idk where to go I’m highly intelligent amongst other attributes but this video spoke to me

I think the biggest determining factor between the differences of the two psychopaths, the ones that are unhinged so to speak, and those that have it under control, is a basic self awareness and adaptation around their environment. Those that are essentially smart enough to understand that they're an abnormality, and to act, as to blend in and not muddy the waters, they gain an incognito like ability to live life semi comfortably. Just appearing normal enough to blend in, understanding the implications of their own actions. They become aware of the fact that giving into base impulses will only cause themselves and others around them discomfort or worse. They come to the conclusion, logically of course, that they'd be better off blending in, and acting. Rather than to act upon their disorder. The psychopath is fully aware of their abnormalities. Those that are obvious, even those that aren't so obvious, are eventually discovered. Those with perhaps less severe psychopathic traits, learn to adapt to the environment and act as chameleons. Blending in, exhibiting behavior that is considered normal, but cautious enough as to not show their true face around anyone. It's rather frightening to think someone researching psychopaths later found out that they are the very thing they're researching. Even more frightening when they seem to piece together the puzzle that is their own life. I truly believe we can never fully know ourselves. We are destined to our pursuit of unfullfilling knowledge, never satisfied, always on the edge of discovery, but always pushed down by our own lack of capabilities. We are only human after all. Limited by the confines of our minds. We've come far, and unless we prevent ourselves from doing so, we will go much further. The almost random element of biology prevents us from truly understanding. The unique human experience is, as I see it, impossible to fully replicate. As similar as anyone of us are, we are much too different to fully understand each other. I guess that's what makes life so interesting at the end of the day. Edit: I'm not one to leave messages based on the reactions of my comments, but I can't express how much joy these comments are bringing me. I always doubt myself, and to see all of you getting value from my words is wonderful. Thank you all!

So proud of Chris to get to where he has got. Fully deserved for the work he has put in over the years.

The video ended beautifully with Joe's legendary "mmmhhhhh yeah" 🤣

This is a very good topic I don't know if it's because narcissist and many other phycolagy definitions are talked about much much more nowadays. But I always found phycolagy very interesting but after being in a relationship with a woman who like this guy was talking about vulnerable narcissist It was something that only somebody that has sadly been a victim of can only understand. What is crazy is now I see there are many many people who are narcissist. They are truly the most predictable yet also the most unpredictable people ever.

Psychopaths can live crime-free life, especially when pursuing business careers. They often screw people over and for them the end always justifies the means - that's why they make up high percentage (in comparison to population avarage) of the upper echelon positions of big companies.

Mad seeing Chris on rogan when a few year back he was one of those typical club promoters in Newcastle haha Good on ya mate and class that ya representing the north east 👏🏻

Awesome video!

I don't live in the UK nor the US, but I think it's very important to be careful to stigmatize people as psychopaths so lightly. You need to, not only examine, but experience actually meeting one in real person. They're are not that so many, only according to ME!

The professor that he’s talking about is Dr. James H. Fallon, Professor Emeritus, Anatomy & Neurobiology School of Medicine at the University of California, Irvine. Extremely interesting study he did. If you want to listen to him speak on the matter check out episode 2 of a podcast called Sword and Scale.

Psychopaths gravitate towards being ceos, politicians, police officers, military, race car drivers. Very few of them go on to do heinous violent crimes. People hear the word "psychopath" and immediately identify it with someone like Ted Bundy, when overall this just is not the case. ASPD has a wide range of individuals who fall under this umbrella. Its my belief psychopathy is a major advantage in a society like ours. Fear response holds most people back from ever chasing their dreams, or accomplishing much. Most will just live a boring, comfortable existence in exchange for a false sense of safety.

Boy this reminds me of someone so much.

I’m a self-diagnosed psychopath. The level of ignorance regarding this condition is astounding. We are not monsters. We are human. We want love, family, and happiness. We just don’t have any emotions.

The history of the so called "Psychopath check sheet" is pretty interesting. Read "The Psychopath Test" by Jon Ronson. You will find out that the "checksheet" was never suppose to be used for legal purposes. The authentic pschopath test was found to be effective but unethical. The checklist was a poor poor substitute.

I’ve always suspected this has something to do with why some women also find psychopaths extremely attractive (even if they won’t readily admit it). Life isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it’s war, and psychopaths are better suited for mentally enduring the brutal hell that war often entails. A psychopath who is able to exercise self-control over their impulses for violence can become a hero. It’s like Robert Sapolsky says, “We love violence, just in the right context.”

I was in love with a psychopath. He was a surgeon. He lost his license for assaulting his patients while they were under anesthesia. I found out when I saw him on the news.

I work on my PhD about the repetition phenomenon and how since the philosophy of the light we lost all our mythology…. So with the industrial time who followed that philosophy, we became unenchanted… but mythology is important so unconsciously we teen chanted by creating a new narrative so we creating monsters because monsters are the reasons for the hero to exist….. now we need psychopath to feel that we exist because this is the reflection of how we became nihilistic.. feel nothing so we need to be shock at every breath we take. There is so much to say.. like the monsters or the ones who are « anormaux » are creating a bounds with the rest of the society…. Crazy…

Awesome to see Chris made it!

i have diagnosed my x wife as a vulnerable narcissist, thanks to this 7 minute clip, LoL kidding, not kidding

My baby daddy/ex husband is a vulnerable narcissist diagnosed with NPD. He is the worst person on earth and is extremely toxic.

Great disctinction between grandiose narcsissts and vulnerable narcsissits. I see these vids and think, nah, not grandiose, but the vulnerable is spot on.

Psychopathy combined with antisocial or borderline personality disorders are the the types that do the most horrific things. You should also look into how many sociopaths there are in a given population, there's a lot more than you'd think.

Joe wanted to say "mm, Brendan Schaub" when Chris was describing the vulnerable narcissist.

My mother was a sadist, psycho and sociopath. It took me a lifetime to realize this is NOT normal and I used to feel like a failure becsuse I just couldnt be that cold hearted, because I am normal, it wasnt me the whole time!😮

I was diagnosed with a personality disorder and I've been in prison, it was a nice rest. I haven't murder death killed anybody in particular just yet but I am looking forward to the first one.

I worked for a vulnerable narcissist. It was terrible. He framed me for stuff I hadn’t done just so he could tell other people I was the problem. He was constantly gaslighting me. And I am using “gaslighting” correctly. He would try to make me think I had said or done something I hadn’t. He was emotionally manipulative. He lied pretty much all the time. He played people off against each other. He cared way too much about how he looked, the clothes he wore, how I looked, the clothes I wore, etc. He would put me down for things I did well. So I was a loser because I lift weights. And I am stupid for going to university. But the truth is, he was uneducated and weaker than your average woman. And I know that’s why he would attack me on those two points. It wasn’t until after I quit and I was teaching some psychiatrists English that one of psychiatrists told me it sounded like he was a narcissist. I had no idea what narcissists were.

The guy (the psychopath study doctor/prof) wrote a book on it. He looked into his past and he saw things like playing chess with his children and not allowing them to win. That he would compete in chess, with children. His own kids. little things like that. A really interesting book.

This was a very interesting story, and I'm a bit fascinated by how the professor conducting the research project ended up being a psychopath himself. I personally have known a few psychopaths unfortunately, with my uncle being one of them. He is just an absolutely unhinged cantankerous human being, showing very little to no ability to respect personal boundaries and constantly bullies pretty much anyone he comes into contact with. He once choked my cousin for stealing the headlights off his truck and the entire time, was completely quiet and mute beating him up and showing no ounce of rage. That just blew my mind away. I certainly could never maintain that level of composure in a dangerous situation like that, especially when I'm not sure what the other person is capable of.

1:45 mercenaries my dude. Its been a long standing profession.