ELECTRICIANS' Q&A :Do you need a fuse if connecting from a large to a smaller cable? - BS7671
Переглядів 27,078
День томуCan you connect a smaller cable to a busbar cable system without including a fuse to protect the cable?
Joe Robinson explores electricians questions related to the Woertz flat cable connector system we used for our Easee commercial EV charger installation.
How does BS7671 wiring regulations handle this circuit protection situation?
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00:00 Woertz flat cable for EV charger installations.
01:02 What protection is needed for the cable?
01:21 Overload protection
02:00 BS7671 Regulation 433.2.1
02:40 Exceptions BS7671 - 433.2.2
04:10 Fault current
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❌ This content on this channel is for electrical professionals.❌ ==================================
📹 Presented by
Joe Robinson- Technical Editor eFIXX
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#efixx #bs7671 #electricians
@MizunoIronMan 3 роки тому
Great post and very informative. These are much more palatable when you do the explaining yourself Joe.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Ah, thanks very much, it's kind of you to say. 😊
@codenamenel 3 роки тому
I had this in work the other week with a shower drain pump wired from the shower switch, through a fused spur, to the pump, so the pump came on when the shower was switched on. Shower switch wired in 10mm t+e from 40A mcb. 1.5mm t+e connected into load side of switch to pattres next to it with an unswitched spur fused to 5A. I had done an EICR on it as an empty property a few weeks prior all satisfactory due to what you`ve explained here. Fast forward a few weeks and the new tenant complained that the shower pump was too loud in operation and could we do anything with it so they sent another lad out to have a look. He saw how the spur was wired in 1.5 down from the 10mm and pooped his pants. Immediately disconnected everything saying the world was going to burn down because of how 1.5mm cant take 40A etc. I got called called into the office the next day to explain why I hadnt picked it up on EICR. When I explained I did pick it up and in my opinion it was perfectly fine the QS was visibly shocked, I could see him mentally wording my sacking letter in his head. I drew him a little circuit diagram of how the 1.5 would never be carrying 40A as the 5A fuse was protecting the actual pump circuit and he started to calm down. I showed him this in the regs book, he apologised and I got politely asked if I would return to the property to put it back as it was to begin with after the other lad disconnected it.
@apk55 3 роки тому
There may be a case where you may want to use a larger cable than than theoretically needed for other reasons. This could include voltage drop on a long run where for example you use 6mm cable on a 20A MCB to a group of sockets in distant part of property.
@007floppyboy 3 роки тому
It also works the other way, 170m run of 50mm2 to allow for Vd, but only fused to 80Amps, then drop in size 2m away from a motor to 16mm2 (This is all from memory from a good few years ago) but all the calcs proved conclusive. This is also covered in spec, motor overload current 30A, 80A fuse due to high inertia so 16mm cable more than adequate, the problem was the cable size had to be increased due to voltage drop, and thus the cable was so large that it could not be glanded to the motor, thus an inline joint from 50mm to 16mm.
@ominence5573 3 роки тому
Brilliant post! Thank you!
@efixx 3 роки тому
Thanks for commenting!
@FurFoxAche Рік тому
This is the same as using line taps onto busbar trunking when dropping into individual CUs in small shop units. The line tapped cable is always smaller than the busbar and is not fused down. It’s like that also in exhibition halls. A larger cable, or busbar is run around the area and smaller cables tap into it and drop down into a local CU or fused isolator.
@MightyQuinn57 Рік тому
Thank you for covering "Cables are downsized without a fuse"..... This answers why on a 10amp lighting circuit there are pendant lights wired in 0.75mm......
@noskills9577 3 роки тому
😂 there’s a chap that was on my 2391 last year that needs this video - argued till he was blue in the face about me fusing something down at the end of a 2m spur (before load) rather than the start of it. Another deadbeat gold card spark unfortunately. Thanks for the content.
@pauljones908 3 роки тому
I can understand with the overload protection within the device as it should operate before the full Current carrying capacity of the cable with it only being one device that it is protecting but I'm not sure about relying on the primary feed for its fault protection. We have alot of MCCs wired this way with tri rated cables coming off to feed each isolator from a large bus bar arrangement and I've never been comfortable with it. Also the mechanical protection from what I think is an NYY cable in my opinion I don't think would be sufficient especially in a car park area with members of the public. As we have all seen plenty of times these will end up being damaged by either vandalism or vehicles striking them. I'd rather see it either in SWA or in a form of metallic conduit to give it a degree of better impact protection
@efixx 3 роки тому
It's definitely something to think about, I suppose you'd want to think about the area, the use of the car park etc. The regulation does say installed in such a way to minimise a fault so you may need some higher mechanical protection on the tap off cables. Maybe you could add an RCD at the mains end to provide fault protection? It's a good discussion point. 🤔
@claudiotc 2 роки тому
@@efixx that would mean one RCD protecting several ev chargers which I'm sure will result in nuicence tripping
@sambothebold Рік тому
Can you explain why you are not comfortable with this idea for those of us less experienced and/or learning, thanks 🙏
@brianwood5220 3 роки тому
well explained Joe
@efixx 3 роки тому
Thanks very much Brian. 😊
@johnlloyd3377 3 роки тому
Thanks Joe - an excellent explaination and clarification of the regulations. Whist I am totally happy with the overload protection location the short-circuit scenario is another matter. If there is a phase to neutral or phase to earth fault on the cable between the busbar connection and the CU or in the CU itself then the main protection device of the whole busbar system will trip to isolate the fault and all the CUs will be out of action. This would not be a very convenient or acceptable situation. Maybe I am missing something?
@efixx 3 роки тому
Yes there is a chance that the whole busbar system could go down from a fault on one of the tap off conductors, but regulation 434.2.1 also allows for the fault protection not to be at the point of CSA change. It uses similar wording to 433.2.2 regarding length and installation to minimise the risk of a fault. I guess the idea is that you're installing such a short run and in such a way that a fault is almost definitely never going to happen.
@johnlloyd3377 3 роки тому
@@efixx Thanks for the response. I like the Woertz system but if I was specifying it for a high end apartment block car park with Teslas owning occupiers/owners I would insist on good mechanical protection e.g. steel conduit, for the cable from the busbar down to the CUs. One can imagine the reaction if ten Tesla owners arrived down to the car park some morning to drive into the City only to find that their battery had not been charged overnight due to an incident on one CU.
@alunroberts1439 2 роки тому
Dam good that cleared so much up.
@Beariam24 3 роки тому
Great follow up guys! This was really interesting as I was wondering the same from the last video about over current/load. After watching I see no problem really, as long as the tap off cable is rated higher than the over load protection provided within the EV charger. I don’t see why the company making the buzz bar cable couldn’t design a clip in overload/current device for say lighting circuits or smaller power circuits. It could be a really useful product.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Sounds like a smart idea, thanks for watching and for the kind comment. 👍
@alistair1978utube Рік тому
*bus bar...
@Beariam24 Рік тому
@@alistair1978utube thanks for that
@eded6163 Рік тому
great video, thanks
@gap9992 3 роки тому
Having an EV charger installed via a small CU connected to 100A connector blocks straight after the 100A DP Isolator. The small CU will be in an IP65 steel cabinet right next to the Meter cupboard so a very short run. What you seem to clarify is that the cable between the 100A connector blocks and the new CU only has to large enough to carry the load of the charger (6mm or 10mm) Hope the EV charger installer says they have to be 25mm so I can correct him ! lol (of course it makes no difference and there is zero issue with him using 25mm if he wants!)
@dennisphoenix1 3 роки тому
It's always been the case that smaller additional consumer units for showers or now e.v chargers would be fed in 6mm double insulated tails ,they need to be big enough to supply the load and not be suitable for maximum possible current flow . Also the old rule of meter tails can't be any longer than 3m has come from this . But you still get meter tails run under floors and in walls a distance from the supply point .
@masonmoore2705 3 роки тому
You’ll possibly see that he uses 10mm tails to a 40amp double pole rcbo. Then 6mm to the charger. I’ve fitted in excess of 2000 chargers
@brianwoodruff4891 3 роки тому
The 3m rule is useful when sizing tails out of busbar Chambers to outgoing fused switches disboards etc
@kevinpickett7249 3 роки тому
Trouble is we have always been told to fuse it down at source so this will now come up time after time ( I will continue to fuse at source ) but handy to know for future ref as makes perfect sense but old habits die hard
@jackcole2347 2 роки тому
What additional measure is it meaning to protect the cable from external influences could this be single core in a metallic panel with downstream fuses protecting it from overload?!
@SME_Ste 3 роки тому
Good explanation using correct terminology. Hasn’t downstream fusing been used for years though for situations like this. Can an EV charger ever become overloaded? I don’t know as i don’t install them.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Correct not a new concept, but new to a few viewers of the previous video. EV chargers can’t be overloaded if installed and set up properly. The car then communicates at the start of the process to find out “what’s available” in terms of maximum current.
@deang5622 Рік тому
If you only have a single load on the circuit, then it doesn't matter where the fuse or breaker is, just so long as the breaker is at the same rating or lower as the lowest rated cable. If you have multiple loads on the circuit, and different CSAs for different lengths of cable, then it makes sense to protect the cables of different CSAs with their own fuses and either just before the smaller thickness cable or along its length somewhere.
@PJB71 3 роки тому
Assuming under 3metres, I was always under the impression that you do not need to provide overload protection if it is a fixed load & impossible to overload. Thermal withstand calculation would need to be performed on cable size to ensure there would be no damage to cable during a fault condition. Also as long as earth loop impedance & Line neutral loop were within limits for the protective device for the 16mm cable. There should be no requirement for a fuse where the cable size is reduced at all. For example if you had a cooker circuit supplied from a 32A circuit breaker in 6mm cable. the oven was connected via a 1.5mm flex, the oven cannot overload as long as the above was confirmed there is no need for a fuse to protect the 1.5mm flex
@efixx 3 роки тому
Fantastic input - EV chargers are the same principle as they are fixed loads. (Maximum load defined)
@dennisphoenix1 3 роки тому
Regarding your oven analagy I have come across lots of ovens connected to the bull nose with the 6mm for the hob . I have always added a single socket and put a plug on the oven for the overload situation. Also ease of removal. But considering what you have said about the oven being a fixed load (2kw) it cant be overloaded, the Zs would have to be low to allow the mcb to trip accordingly.
@PJB71 3 роки тому
@@dennisphoenix1 it is always good practice to install a fuse or a socket where the oven is rated at say 2.3kw or there is gas hob where the cable reduces in size. However if you were perhaps doing an EICR & found a smaller cable with a protective device that was much higher than the cable can handle you would complete the calculations & measurements as you are only concerned with fault conditions if the cable is suitable for the fixed load.
@johnburns4017 2 роки тому
Then why bother having an mcb.
@behindtherack9056 Рік тому
@@johnburns4017 what if in a 1 in a million chance the live and neutral in the 1.5m cable start to interact with each other some how.. it's about protecting cable isn't it
@joemoore9991 Рік тому
Could you run 5 x dual 22kw chargers from a single 50mm2 3PH + N and CPC using this principle?
@petertallowin6406 3 роки тому
Very interesting video, thanks for that. Just out of curiosity. Is this the same reg used to dictate the requirement for protection of meter tails that are over 3m or is this just DNO stipulation. It is my understanding that the DNO will only guarantee disconnection times for cutout fuses when tails are 3m or less. Or did I dream this? Thanks again. :)
@efixx 3 роки тому
It very much is involved in the DNO stipulation yes. We're dropping a new CPD in association with BG on circuit protection this week and we explain exactly this in it. Keep your eyes peeled for that!
@petertallowin6406 3 роки тому
@@efixx brilliant, thank you for this info. Much appreciated. 👍
@efixx 3 роки тому
@@petertallowin6406 our pleasure. 😊
@MrMaks18 3 роки тому
Does the car have any overload protection aswelll? If so do I need a fuse at the end ?
@NaydenSpirdonov 3 роки тому
Cars have overload protection. Doesn't matter if it's ev or carbon fuel. That's why cars have fuse boxes :)
@bernardcharlesworth9860 Рік тому
Interesting design but my concern would be a fault at the connector pins
@mikeselectricstuff 3 роки тому
But how many EV chargers actually incorporate overcurrent protection? They will usually be designed to be fed via an upstream MCB. Is this a complete system that includes a suitable EVSE with the required protection? I suppose you could use a fuse rather than an MCB in this scenario to save space in the EVSE enclosure
@J0nny61 2 роки тому
This is an issue I've gone back and forth with over many years. Many electricians and Engineers don't understand the principals. What happens is they just use standard circuits or Amtech calcs and the like to come up with a compliant solution. The EV charge point is one of my favourites, as the CAN bus protocol will not allow the charge point or vehicle to overload a charging point. This has been made more confusing by BS7671 regulation 722 insisting on overcurrent protection when it's not really required. An example would be when you have a 7kW single phase charge point backed up by a 63A MCB, supplied by a 4.00 mm or 6 mm cable. There is no way you can overload the charge point as the CAN bus connection won't let it charge at a higher current rating. Fault protection is provided by the 63A MCB as 4mm or 6.00 mm cable can withstand the thermal constraints and will disconnect for fault under the adiabatic equation. Lighting circuits are similar, especially with the advent of LED lamps. You can't overload them, unless you step well outside the parameters of the original design.
@alistair1978utube 2 роки тому
*principles
@007floppyboy Рік тому
Why would you use a 63Amp, when a 32Amp would do the job? 32Amp MCB wouldnt even think about going until 45 odd amps +
@deang5622 Рік тому
I can assure you engineers do understand the principles. It may be that electricians and technicians do not, but degree qualified engineers certainly do.
@deang5622 Рік тому
I don't agree with this. You are relying on the data connection of the CAN bus to provide safety, and that could malfunction. Always good to have protection in the power circuit itself.
@J0nny61 Рік тому
@@deang5622 Please explain how you can overload an EV charge point circuit? If the circuits designed for 7kW single phase or let's say 22kW three phase, what scenario would cause an overload?
@marktaylor6947 3 роки тому
Secondary protection making overload impossible. Good idea this system.
@stefbg1239 9 місяців тому
Could have not been explained clearer! 👍
@HarveyPaul007 3 роки тому
Nice
@efixx 3 роки тому
Thanks!
@iantaylor2926 Рік тому
I think the issue lies in limiting risk, which could be tricky for car charging points. Best to keep the length of 'undersized' cable to a minimum, preferably using a tap-off with integral breaker.
@majorpygge-phartt2643 3 роки тому
Doesn't it usually make sense to have a large primary fuse or breaker at the supply input and a secondary protective device at each step down point? That makes sense in theory at least. But lots of cables step down in cross sectional area at branch off points on the grid without any protective devices, like where service cables branch off to people's homes and to stuff like street lights for instance. And it's often the same in vehicle wiring looms too, I've often seen a large incoming cable in a vehicle loom branching out into several smaller sizes without any extra protection which I don't like but there's millions of vehicles out there running around without their wiring catching fire so this is a sticky subject, and it's especially important where there's loads more energy involved like there is with mains electricity. And I know that there's a region between where a cable can start to be overloaded and where the protection finally blows and that's where it gets a bit complicated which is why people must be properly qualified to install such risky stuff. And surely it's safer to branch off and step down in conductor size without extra protection if the branch cable is in a steel conduit rather than just a PVC insulated cable on the surface or under a wooden floor.
@efixx 3 роки тому
That is the usual way of doing it yes, but as this video explains there are other ways that are acceptable.
@majorpygge-phartt2643 3 роки тому
@@efixx And if you did use any fuses shouldn't they be HRC types, or class C breakers, given the amount of energy involved in a circuit like the one being demonstrated? I fitted a dirty great class D breaker once to protect a whopping great plasma cutter I installed.
@UberAlphaSirus 3 роки тому
This method is used from the main head to the street main splice isn't it?
@dennisphoenix1 3 роки тому
Supply authorities are a rule to themselves, they would loop to houses together without a thought for load or overload
@efixx 3 роки тому
The cable feeding the property comes under the ESQCR regs which will have its own guidance on this. 👍
@johnburns4017 3 роки тому
Fault current. An upstream RCD protecting all of that bus bar, and hence all of the branches off to EV chargers, will do that.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Good point, you'd just have to bear selectivity in mind. 👍
@johnburns4017 3 роки тому
@@efixx Yep. If a fault on one charger, the lot drop out.
@jonathanharrisberg 3 роки тому
What about the following reg? Does this comply? 722.533.101 Each charging point shall be supplied individually by a final circuit protected by an overcurrent protective device complying with BS EN 60947-2, BS EN 60947-6-2 or BS EN 61009-1 or with the relevant parts of the BS EN 60898 series or the BS EN 60269 series.
@petersylvester2905 3 роки тому
The busbar isn't a final circuit is it so the busbar would be your distribution circuit and the drop from there the final circuit, as long as you don't use one break out box to two chargers you'd meet the single final circuit per charger imo.
@bdawinton 3 роки тому
Personally I would not worry about it I have an email from the HSE that says running a cable across the ground and being driven over without protection for two years and its OK to ignore 705.522 (ii) which makes a mockery of BS 7671
@efixx 3 роки тому
Interesting, what situation is this in?
@bdawinton 3 роки тому
@@efixx its a generator running a EE/BT telecommunications tower now in its 3rd year I understand it was forced onto the farmer under the telecommunications act but is now well over the 6 months mandated by the act for emergency deployment. its close to a holiday park so kids dogs and the general public are often around the area the cable is run unprotected about 700 feet though the field which accommodates the access to our house and the local woods. HSE state they have assessed the risk and feel it can stay as is i have asked for the risk assessment and which engineer considered a cable being driven over on rocky ground and accessible to the general public to walk over. but to this point they have not answered. ( I sent to some email to you on this is you want to read for yourself ) Cheers Frank
@bdawinton 3 роки тому
the HSE seems to not want to answer me though i am a little sarcastic when officials try and hide behind a desk so she got the following email this morning Hello Miss Kelly I am looking for the risk assessment the HSE did to reach the verdict that BS7671 subsection parts 7 section 705.522 says cables need to be buried to a Depth of at least 1M is the HSE recommending to the committee of BS7671 that this should be written to say something like “cable can be haphazardly laid across rocky ground and be allowed to be run over by vehicles, further leaving cable as a tip hazard to horse livestock and pedestrians would be considered an advantage” yes I may sound a little sarcastic but basically that is what you have implied is an acceptable installation. So once again I ask for the risk analysis for and who signed off to say this is acceptable. Regards
@deang5622 Рік тому
Squashing the cable restricts electron flow.....
@elliotninja 3 роки тому
Does the same apply when spurring off a ring?
@dennisphoenix1 3 роки тому
Yes and no . When you spur off a ring you are only allowed 1 point ( single socket, twin socket or switch fuse ) , the maximum load of a twin socket is 26 amps , so the current carrying capacity of the spur cable has to be 2.5mm . That's why you can't spur off a spur . The potential fault current that might flow in the event of damage to the spur cable would have to be high enough to blow the ring fuse or trip a mcb , hence the Zs has to be within the max allowable for the device.
@farmersteve129 3 роки тому
@@dennisphoenix1 Slight clarification on your wording - when spurring off a ring final circuit you are only allowed to serve 1 point per spur unless that spur is protected by a fuse not exceeding the current rating of the cable in the spur and no greater than 13A. The total number on non fused spurs should not exceed the number of points served directly by the ring final circuit, fused spurs are unlimited.
@ggbalze06 3 роки тому
@@farmersteve129 So are you saying you could spur off to a fused spur then spur off again to a single socket total 26a max?
@farmersteve129 3 роки тому
@@ggbalze06 the fused spur should commence at the ring
@Richard1977 3 роки тому
Meanwhile the whole of Europe is supplying appliances with a 3G0.75mm2 unfused from a 16A socket... And to add to that: Using unfused 3G0,75mm2 extension cords with one or multiple outlets from the same 16A socket...
@majorpygge-phartt2643 3 роки тому
Yeah, but don't they still use the radial system in europe where each socket is protected by it's own fuse or breaker? so they have to have larger consumer units to accommodate all the protective devices, or separate ones like we had here in the UK before we had ring mains? Though it is possible with the radial system to plug in a flex which has a smaller cross sectional area than the supply cable so it's theoretically more unsafe, if the socket is protected by say a 16 amp breaker or fuse and you plug in a much smaller flex which most flexes will be, especially for lower powered appliances. The main problem in my experience of electrics, and I've seen this with low voltage auto electrics too, is that there's a region between where a circuit starts overloading and where the protective device cuts out or blows and it's that which causes the fire risk by overloading a cable but not enough to blow the fuse, or trip out the breaker, which is why in theory at least the ring main is safer, but it's still open to abuse by people using too big a fuse in their plugs, but that's not the installer or the regulator's fault, is it?
@petermichaelgreen 3 роки тому
Note that flex, NYY-J etc have a full-sized CPC, while larger sizes of UK T&E have a significantly reduced CPC. I don't know what spec exactly the "tough sheath" cable efixx used in their EV charger example was but the CPC in it looked full size to me. I haven't run the numbers with the formulas in BS7671, but ehen you consider a 4mm² T&E only has a 1.5mm² CPC, then 0.75mm flex on a 16A breaker or a 6mm² cable with a full sized CPC on a 63A breaker doesn't seem so crazy from a "fault protection" point of view. All the European extension leads I've seen have 1.5mm² flex, but I'll admit I haven't looked closely at too many of them.
@danielplusben 3 роки тому
Or the US where they have 30 amp outlets you can plug a standard plug into.
@majorpygge-phartt2643 3 роки тому
@@danielplusben Are the american outlets really 30 amp? Which sockets are they? Aren't their little domestic sockets only rated at 7.5 amp? That's what I've seen written about them in catalogues offering them. And I think I've seen it marked on some of their plugs as the same outlets are also used on the back of some hifi amplifiers here in the UK. And a friend of mine has an american jukebox which has US outlets also rated at only 7.5 amp. Or are the 30 amp outlets for stuff like electric cookers? As far as I know in the US they have 120 volt supply for their domestic sockets and lights but 240 volt for their more major stuff like cookers which would need a 30 amp supply point.
@danielplusben 3 роки тому
@@majorpygge-phartt2643 Looks like I was slightly wrong. The pins are slightly rotated on the 30 amp, but adaptors are readily available after a quick Google search. Standard outlets are rated 15 amps but the same still applies. The wires they use for smaller appliances are much thinner but are still not protected against overload. The sockets on the back of stereo equipment I've personally seen are actually completely different and non compatible despite being two flat prongs. They do this so that people don't plug high current appliances into the through on an appliance not rated for it. I am sure some exist which do use standard sockets however, despite the risk.
@aryehelectricalltd7247 3 роки тому
But when the cable is connected is more than 3 meter from the car to the charger is about 3 meter plus the small part is about0.5m so all together is more than 3 ??
@efixx 3 роки тому
The overcurrent device is in the charger. 👍
@sophieclips 3 роки тому
It would be an interesting upgrade of the splice head, if one with an MCB/RCBO was available built in. Yes it wouldn't be as neat, but could be useful particularly where there is a branch that needs to be longer than 3metres.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Great suggestion, it would certainly open up some other applications as well. 👍
@0786RICARDO 2 роки тому
Awnser is no, all you need is a generator, a wire and a light bulb. That's it. Unless your referring to the code in your country
@bertiebassett1972 3 роки тому
Let's think about this "will I ever be asked to fit this stuff?" "No" "Do I know someone that uses it?" "No" No point me worrying about it then Ahh but I wouldn't be happy putting a fuse on the end😬🤔 Stop worrying 🤣
@NaydenSpirdonov 3 роки тому
I'm using it and I installed few of this chargers already. This was interesting information.
@johnwaby4321 3 роки тому
No still does not feel right .
@efixx 3 роки тому
Feels like it goes against the grain a bit doesn't it?
@anelectrician 2 роки тому
@@efixx It does go against the grain of circuit protection to me.
@anelectrician 2 роки тому
I'm with you on this.
@majorpygge-phartt2643 3 роки тому
Has anyone here seen the dramatic videos on yt of substations and grid distribution lines blowing up? Some of it done deliberately by idiots, and dreadfully overloaded overhead supply cables burning down in poorer countries where there's little or no regulation? There's some well dramatic vids of some really big national grid transformers blowing up too.
@CPU-64 3 роки тому
Great video however hydrogen powered vehicles is going be the energy source of future so no Wall charging EVs are a white elephants tbh !!!
@ratsalive 3 роки тому
'Bus' bar not 'buzz'.
@efixx 3 роки тому
Agreed it's spelt "busbar". Buzzbar may just be a quirk of pronunciation. 😊
@ratsalive 3 роки тому
@@efixx it is. I looked it up once, if I recall correctly, it's Latin. 'Omnibus' to signify all. You connect to the omnibus (abbreviation 'bus' ) bar.
@efixx 3 роки тому
That's interesting, thanks very much. 👍
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