This isnt as common anymore.

And The Original doesnt shoot from the center[technically]

This is less common with games like DayZ and Arma (same engine) where the "mil-sim" aspect of the game kind of required a bit more consistency of where the bullet was coming from. However, as you will notice, there's downsides to both a "in world" view model and bullets coming out of the actual muzzle. 1.) We don't hold our guns perfectly in our vision. The idea of a "view model" was instilled into gaming with it not being super realistic, mechanically it allows us to see what gun we're using but in reality if you ever actually play paintball/airsoft (or actually engage in combat) with a go pro on your head giving your "FPPOV" you'll notice that at most you'll see the gun when you aim down sight, but the rest of the time the gun is flailing around outside a normal camera FOV. So having the gun be a part of the real world model means you'll see less of it, and the view can be sickening to try and follow, especially for more action hero characters (Arma characters are well trained enough to not make heroic and action hero like wild movements). If you want to get a normal FPS game perspective of real life shooting, you would effectively need to have a camera on your chest. 2.) Depth Perception This is a major reason why games, like Arma in this example, utilize a crosshair despite it being debated on it being an unrealistic UI element or with the idea of it being cheaty. The reality is if you've ever held a gun (paintball or airsoft applies) you'll know that intuitively the general area you're pointing due to having TWO eyes and making use of your natural depth perception. With the Arma rifle being both in world and firing from the actual muzzle, gaging where the bullet is going to go is a little bit easier, but nowhere near as good as if you were holding the gun with both your eyes, and while this effect is actually worsened in separate view models, the bigger issue is the bullet comes out of the gun. Which means commonly people will peak out over cover, be unable to read the fact that their gun is actually below the cover you're shooting over and you just plant a few point blank rounds into whatever you were hiding behind. Now imagine having a fake view model and having your bullets come out of the theoretical third person gun model that you can't even see. 3.) Heads up This is the main reason most games end up abandoning "world models" or 3rd person view models, the idea is that we're going to make a character and we're going to plant the camera on the characters head, and make the first and third person models the same thing. The first glaring issue is the fact that you can see your own head. Most games that tend this way actually remove your own head from rendering to function better, it's the same model but the head is just invisible to you, so you don't see weird floating polygons that is actually just your nose or hair/helmet. But this also leads to really janky looking movement. Naturally as you walk your head is actually swaggering left to right and up and down and even leaning forward and back with every step, but your entire body is telecasting your intentions to the motion centers in your brain so you can automatically calibrate your human viewport to be smoothed out and not cause motion sickness. But when looking at the 2D viewport of a game, this peripheral information doesn't get translated and your brain just sees a shaky blurry mess. While it's getting more common to see games tackle this idea, understand that a majority of games steer clear of these mechanics for good reason. That's why games like Apex, Overwatch, and Valorant all went with laser vision.

apex battleroyale is basically superman ffa

in a few games the gun rreally works, example:Phantom forces (a roblox game) here the models are preetty well made, the gun shoots where it is supposed to shoot, instead of your eye shooting.

And yet they can't count to 3

@@Xx_time2die_xX got'em

Sneaky gaben and his sneaky tricks!

@@Wodsobe haha!

@@garbaj shounic has a great vid about viewmodels where he talks about the medic syringe guns ukposts.info/have/v-deo/enGkYaafbqKi0nU.html

yeah all source guns render the viewmodel separately

You can also spawn the things that are used for the view model in G-mod. For example the demoman arms and his gun.

@Nevermore congrats on saying that exact sentence for the 4680247th time they have a life too y'know

Spent *wayy* too long studying the CViewRender class and I can confirm it does do a separate pass on the same renderbuffer

I remember seeing something in one of Shounic's videos about how all the viewmodels in TF2 are actually separate, enlarged models of the characters' arms and weapons that appear in front of their head, that are simply invisible when viewed in third person or by other players unless some cheaty stuff is enabled

That’s why I always get a bit annoyed when people talk about VR like it’s just another console, when it changes every facet of play. A great example is 40k Battlesister. Simple things like being able to hold larger weapons with two hands, being able to hold onto the front without holding the back, parrying with your sword actually working, manually removing and inserting magazines, bludgeoning heretics with non-melee weapons, etc. Stuff like that is only experienced in VR. Sure, I can run out of ammo and click the right stick to melee a guy on Xbox. But that is entirely different from my meltagun running out and instinctively turning it around to bash a cultist’s head in.

To be fair you could do that in vanilla for as well just by telling dogmeat to fetch it

@@williamwhitehouse8741 Seriously? Ah, good old buggy Bethesda! Though another cheat you can do in the VR version is taking a shortcut to the end of dungeons by reaching through those doors that are placed near the dungeon entrance (the ones that are intended to help the player quickly exit the dungeon after they've reached the end) and unlocking them from the opposite side.

fun fact, a lot of old FPSs did the same thing. to piggyback on Fallout, Fallout 3 uses that method, the bullet comes from the gun, hence why you may shoot at something, but have the bullet hit the wall or piece of cover directly in front of the gun. New Vegas, switched to the old bullet leaving the front of your face to combat this annoyance, and im sure for other reasons.

@@fireaza If you are talking about Skyrim, I heavily suggest getting HIGGS (I believe it is what it's called) among other mods like a full body. It makes the game infinitely better in VR because you actually have a digital both that can interact with things (Like balancing cheese wheels on my triceps) and see what you wear. As for HIGGS, it allows you to actually grab things, for realsies, like actually grab corpses by the ankles and drag them. Amazing stuff. Fixes the glitch too since you are no longer some bodiless Skyrim ghost that levitates things slowly and can phase through walls, which is neat.

it was also used as a feature for the vr mode that was in the game a few years ago

that's a really neat trick. how do you do it?

@@vidiottheowl2825 wdym

@@vidiottheowl2825 I'm used to command for a while but I've got to go check to see what it was. I will get back to you

@@vidiottheowl2825 set cl_first_person_uses_world_model to 1 in the console, it Can be used on any sever and is 0 by default.

Overwatch doesn't do this like TF2. Although it looks like the projectiles are coming from your weapon, they do actually come from your eyes. So it basically shows a fake projectile path to the player who's firing the weapon.

What valve does is scale the depth range of the renderer to 0-0.1, so if you had level geometry close enough it clips through your camera, it would also clip through the viewmodel

@@Thornskade That's wrong, Overwatch only uses eyes for hitscan, projectiles are 100% coming from the gun itself. It's why if you're standing in front of a wall and shoot as Pharah for instance, the impact is where the gun's tip is.

@@blinkachu5275 That was 100% not the case when I played it.

Escape from tarkov actually calculates the bullet direction from the barrel of the gun. Not sure if you can shoot through walls like Arma but its cool to think about

Smart and beautiful. This comment is underrated, I wouldn't have wasted time writing my own if this was further up the list.

Perfect answer!

Exactly this. We think of every object in the scene having to receive the same camera matrix, but absolutely nothing stops you from changing the camera for each object.

Yep.

I love your reply because it's really smart but I hate that game design has so much linear algebra in it because I'm really not.

I think it's more about the game design rather than implementation difficulty. Imagine scenario where you're hiding from your enemies behind boxes, stand up and shoot into the box because your weapon is too low. That would be really frustrating! Devs could implement animation for character to raise hands, which would kind of solves the issue, but how high does the character need to raise his hands? And what if the enemy under crosshair is also behind some cover? Now that I think about it, maybe it IS about implementation difficulty... Too much effort for no practical use? Projectile weapons, on the other hand, tend to shoot from the weapon tip, like the rocket launcher from TF2. And yes, that means that when you're behind some cover it's easy to shoot on the right side but hard on the left - you have to peak further to not shoot into the wall, since default settings imply right-handed player model. Although, there is a special rocket launcher called Original, which is in the middle of the screen like weapons in *original* Doom games :D

@@AlexProGear yeah, like it's neat when it's implemented but it can really hinder a game if it was not designed for it, for example, CSGO would be literally unplayable if bullets came out of your gun

@@AlexProGear An alternative could be to use a camera-centric shooting mechanic, where bullets come from your face, but the character adjusts where his gun is held to satisfy (as best it can) the constraint that a light of sight must be established between the gun's tip and the visible point under the crosshair. This would cause the gun to move around the wall or ledge, and would look a bit like the gun is blind firing around a corner, switching handedness when appropriate. It would all be cosmetic and not affect the gameplay but would create the look of authenticity. It'd also communicate effectively to other players that - because their gun is visible and pointed at you - they are able to shoot you. Could also add another constraint to prevent the gun from obscuring your line of sight. I think it'd be pretty sweet if a game implemented a system like this, where the character moves his weapon dynamically and adaptively to his cover like some sort of movie! Sure, it'd be hard to implement, but it is important to move the art form forward

@@AlexProGear You need to play Insurgency: Sandstorm and see how they handle it.

Far Cry has always been great at this.

The illusion also kinda breaks when you compare to thirdperson. Usually the viewmodels make it look like you hold a gun in front of your face, while the character model usually holds it around the waist.

I like your funny words, magic man

@@wombatowo at least it is not some make up word lol

classic valve

Source does it by changing the perspective matrix to have an fov of 54, no funky quaternions involved

I have no idea why you're mentioning quaternions. Quaternions are for rotations, not distortions. "A vec4's quaternions" wtf does that even mean?

thanks! the growth in the past few months has been incredible

It's just swapping out the projection matrix / clearing the depth buffer between draw calls. Source's rendering system is still very much designed for fixed-function hardware where operations like that would be costly

@@RoyaleNoir oh huh, so i was more correct with my initial guess

This isn't quite right, it causes warping on the viewmodel indicating that an FOV change is actually taking place. A better example for this is in CSGO (same engine as TF2) where you can change the viewmodel X, Y, and Z position as well as the FOV - the FOV isn't just moving the viewmodel, it is actually altering the FOV of it. I have no idea how that would work myself though, I'm sure someone else can explain it

@@EmApex it uses a vertex shader to distort the viewmodel depending on its fov

@@heliusuniverse7460 ah, thanks!

@@heliusuniverse7460 likely doesn't even use a special vertex shader. Most likely, they just simply pass in a different perspective matrix when the viewmodel is rendered. It's that simple.

@@EmApex We use something called view and projection matrices, which is just fancy 3d renderer speak for changing the math that interprets it on the fly. It's all still done in the same pass, but we can change how certain things render in that space by changing the math that applies to it.

In Goldsource/Source-speak, viewmodel is the first person model, world model is the third person mesh. It doesn't relate to how the first person view model is rendered.

Yes, I’m aware. But how are you able to change the fov of the view model separately without a second camera?

@@daveface69 Fun fact, you can use console commands to use your world model in first person. It's most likely going to clip your head into your camera, but it sort of works and shows how others actually see you

@@notalostnumber8660 In TF2, the implemented this to try to accommodate future VR support, but it also makes it easier to aim certain weapons like the Huntsman, as your perspective now accurately sees where the arrow is coming from in relation to your position, making arc estimates better.

@@notalostnumber8660 oh shit don't tell the csgo players or they'll get OW banned

ah, that makes sense. I figured there was probably some semantics involved with the whole 1 camera vs 2 camera thing. Thanks for the insight!

No such thing as matrix in computer graphics, its just 16 floats stored sequentially in RAM. What we do to create matrix is sending a uniform to GPU through PCI.

I hate how slow Gibby's animations feel. I've died way too many times because I couldn't tell if I was walking or running

Yeah, clip space is correct. It's where things end up after the projection matrix and perspective division. I've only used OpenGL and Vulkan, so i don't know if DirectX has a different term for it.

@@sourestcake nah it's the same concept there.

just dont do viewmodel fovs like tf2 and you should be fine with shooting through walls