#386

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Andreas Spiess

3 місяці тому

Measuring the power consumption of battery-operated IOT devices is tricky. In this video, we will look at how to measure tiny currents, and in a next video, we will use this knowledge to test some new ESP32 boards.
I will introduce you to the new Power Profiler Kit II from Nordic and compare it with other well-known tools to determine which one is the best value for your money.
I am a proud Patreon of @GreatScott!, @ElectroBOOM, @Electronoobs, @EEVblog, and others. No Docker, No Microsoft Teams, Zoom

Links:
Micro Current Gold: www.eevblog.com/projects/ucur...
Current Ranger: lowpowerlab.com/guide/current...
Power Profiler Kit II: www.nordicsemi.com/Software-a...
PPK II available at: www.adafruit.com/product/5048
Otii: www.qoitech.com/otii/
Joulescope: www.joulescope.com/products/j...
BattLab-One: www.elektor.com/battlab-one-b...
Lilygo T7 : s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9JQvgP or amzn.to/3iztqoL
Battery Holder: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_AD17ZM

The links above usually are affiliate links that support the channel (no additional cost for you).
Supporting Material and Blog Page: www.sensorsiot.org
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КОМЕНТАРІ
Greg Sullivan
Greg Sullivan 27 днів тому
What a spiffingly great device!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 25 днів тому
It is so good it was immediately sold out after the video ;-)
Greg Sullivan
Greg Sullivan 28 днів тому
Just an aside - does anyone know where to source an 18650 battery holder (like the one shown at time 1:00) that takes protected cells?
Daniel O
Daniel O 2 місяці тому
re the Nordicsemi board, you can not buy these boards as most of the vendors have no stock and very long lead times, the vendors that do have shock only sell to companies :-(
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 2 місяці тому
You are right. All were sold out hours after this video :-(
Hessijames79
Hessijames79 3 місяці тому
Any idea, how to get the NRF-PPK2 in Germany, i. e. shipping from Europe?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 2 місяці тому
I got mine from Mouser. Digikey has them, too. But, after my video, they are sold out on a global basis :-(
Joffe Gruenfron
Joffe Gruenfron 3 місяці тому
Hello Andreas, maybe you can have a look at my alternative firmware for the CurrentRanger_R3 ( github.com/gruenfron/CurrentRanger_R3-PeakAvrg ) which uses a connected OLED display to show average current, charge and peak values. This makes the CurrentRanger a nice standalone tool to be used quickly without firing up an oscilloscope.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 2 місяці тому
Thank you for the link!
Karl
Karl 3 місяці тому
A small (cheap) Tip if you want to meassure small currents less often: limit the burden voltage by using a Diode to avoid the brownout: Just put the Diode parallel to your Shunt-Resistor (/Multimer), it will limit the burden voltage to ~800mV (Si-Diode) and will not have much influence in the lower regions you might be able to switch the shunt or range while the diode takes the current.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Good idea. Others proposed to use a button switch across the shunt. But your concept is automatic...
Miriam RAM Studio
Miriam RAM Studio 3 місяці тому
It looks like you have quite an influence on the sales of the products you are presenting ;) I tried to buy the excellent PPK II you presented and all online shops (Mouser, Digikey, etc..) report no stock until at least 26 week. You should get a percentage on the sales ;) Great video. Looking forward to receive and try my PPK II.
Miriam RAM Studio
Miriam RAM Studio 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess I am subscribed but slow in taking buying decisions ;)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are right. It was sold out in hours. This is why I always suggest to subscribe ;-)
SouD _
SouD _ 3 місяці тому
Was looking for this kind of kit for so long! Have been lucky to wait before buying µCurrent or so. Thank you, i got the last available nRF kit from adafruit :D
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You were lucky. Many others tried it at Mouser who was sold out in hours...
Sitting Duc
Sitting Duc 3 місяці тому
Ooh. Nordic Semi Power Profiler Kit seems to have Linux support too. Suddenly I am interested. Nothing to do with the pile of 18650 and tinypico / ezsbc in my "round tuit" drawer... Ooh, a new Andreas Spiess video on battery powered ESP32? I know what I'm doing next..
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I presented the PPK II in my last video. It created a big demand. Mouser was sold out in hours ;-)
Dr Tune
Dr Tune 3 місяці тому
I dunno about "maybe as a christmas present". I had my credit card out and another window open as soon as you mentioned high speed autoranging and a half decent desktop app. Thanks! I have Dave Jones' , and the Current Ranger, and they've both paid for themselves, but.. this looks a great addition.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Since I had my OTII I never looked back to the other two devices. And now we get this PPK II for a very reasonable price doing nearly the same...
M&A Hudson
M&A Hudson 3 місяці тому
Excellent information, thank you. I really needed this last year but hey! Mine arrives on Monday - it will be so useful.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Some instruments have to be around all the time... I hope you like it!
Elektronik
Elektronik 3 місяці тому
Den gemittelten Stromverbrauch kann man meistens auch ohne ein spezielles Gerät messen: Die Pulsströme liefert ein dicker Elko (100-1000 uF) direkt am Verbraucher. Der Strom wird über nen Widerstand zugeführt über dem eine R-C Reihenschaltung liegt. Die Spannung über dem C ergibt dann den Mittelwert des Stroms. Man kann z.B. 1 Ohm nehmen (oder 0,1 Ohm oder 10 Ohm) über dem 10 K in Reihe zu 100 uF liegt. Größere Werte ergeben längere Zeitkonstanten. Das Ganze ist sehr einfach und funktioniert ziemlich gut..
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Das stimmt um einen Mittelwert analog zu bestimmen. Dann muss man die Unterscheidung von "deep-sleep" und "operation" vermutlich von Hand machen. Ich bin mir auch nicht sicher ob man verschiedene Widerstände für die beiden Phasen braucht. Vielleicht ein Thema für ein Video? Für die Optimierung ist allerdings ein Mittelwert oft nicht genügend und man muss tiefer in die Tasche greifen. Ich bin übrigens seit Langem ein Subscriber deines Kanals und ich finde deinen "trockenen" Stil höchst unterhaltsam.
Caio Pedreira
Caio Pedreira 3 місяці тому
Hello Professor! I mentioned you on the Radxa forum on the topic of their new board. My username is capedra. Looking forward a great review from you related to this board. Best Regards!!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
As a Linux noob I decided to concentrate on Raspberry Pi only :-(
S B
S B 3 місяці тому
Very interestring video! I am enjoying the current ranger since last christmas and wrote a small LabView-Script for data acquisition via USB. To avoid ground-loops I use a ADUM4160-based USB-isolator. So far the LabView-Script does visualize the data, but I haven't found time yet to implement a data export due to the lack of time. Does anyone know of somebody who already implemented a LabView interface for the current ranger that includes the export of data?
S B
S B 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Thank you for pointing me to that - its just what I need an I did not find that when searching earlier for such a tool. (The link you posted accidentally includes the ')' at the end and is only working without it, just in case anyone is also interested in this software.)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Another viewer mentioned a software available for the Current Ranger (github.com/MGX3D/CurrentViewer )
Asger Vestbjerg
Asger Vestbjerg 3 місяці тому
Fantastic walkthrough/test as always 👍 Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us 👍😀
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad you liked it. Thank you!
Wasser Drucker
Wasser Drucker 3 місяці тому
17:14: When you hold the battery contacts close to each other....
Wasser Drucker
Wasser Drucker 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess OK, you are right, i did not see.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
One was insulated...
pyrobeav2005
pyrobeav2005 3 місяці тому
Heh, I was just listening to an interview with the guy who designed the Joulemeter on my drive home.
pyrobeav2005
pyrobeav2005 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Precisely, The Amphour #527 "Measuring current with Matt Liberty".
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Where? On The Amphour?
Karthik B
Karthik B 3 місяці тому
Hello sir, I have started working on esp32. I have one doubt about the circuit. I have two different sensors with serial data and serial clock pins in both. How to connect them with one esp32 at the same time ??
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You have to ask Google. The ESP32 has two serial connections.
Amandio Real
Amandio Real 3 місяці тому
Thank you for this vídeo. It's very useful, not only for makers but for professional engineers like me. Some times is nice to have simple equipment to do simple test without the need of complex configurations but with good results.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are welcome! Indeed, often we do not need precise measurements and having an instrument all the time on the bench is better...
Unexpected Maker
Unexpected Maker 3 місяці тому
Yeah, I moved from my CurrentRanger to the PPK-II and it's really awesome to use. It's great that I can use it to also power my device I'm testing and it's super quick to get a board setup and results captured. It's a crazy price for what you get.
Unexpected Maker
Unexpected Maker 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Yes I did! I'm interested to see if/what you use them for. Keep in mind the FeatherS2 is not designed for the "lowest" of deep sleep current, though my latest FeatherS2 revisions has reduced it another 30%. Keep up the awesome videos - every one is a wealth of knowledge!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for sharing your experience. BTW: Did you see your boards in the beginning of the video?
Jamil Khan
Jamil Khan 3 місяці тому
the power profiler is such an amazing device
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I agree!
tseawell90
tseawell90 3 місяці тому
ezsbc master race
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
It is part of my future test
tseawell90
tseawell90 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess the ezsbc esp32 is my favorite
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
??
saxpert
saxpert 3 місяці тому
Hi Andreas, was ist falsch an einem UM34C USB Tester oder ähnliche. Ich bin damit sehr zufrieden.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Nichts ist falsch damit. Er ist vergleichbar mit einem Multimeter mit all den Vor- und Nachteilen. Er geht nicht so gut zum Filmen ;-)
Douglas Peters
Douglas Peters 3 місяці тому
Andreas, not to sound too much like sour grapes, but why not include the BattLab-One? It measures microcurrent deep sleep PLUs let's you do "what-if" analysis on your battery type. Available from Digi-key, Elektor and Tindie. (Full disclosure, I'm the maker).
Douglas Peters
Douglas Peters 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Thanks Andreas! I'll have to sack my PR department haha! Great video (even though I think you missed a great product :-)). I'd be happy to send you one in the hopes of a future review. You can reach me at dpeters@bluebird-labs.com (I don't have your address, otherwise I would have sent you one already.)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
The simple answer is: I did not know that it exists and so far, none of my viewer ever talked about it or I forgot about it :-( It seems to be comparable with the Power Profiler Kit if I compare the specs (with the exception of the sampling rate). I will add a link in the video description.
Frank Baumgart
Frank Baumgart 3 місяці тому
At 4:43 your calculation says "3,3 V - 2 V (burden) = 1,3 V (for the MCU)" but with your multimeter, aren't you measuring the 5 V output of USB, so there is 3 V for the MCU? Sure, that is still way below what the buck converter on the ESP board would need to create 3,3 V from.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Deep-sleep currents are not very important if you have a USB connection. It is more important on battery power. But you are right, I could have taken 3.6 volt (max spec for the ESP32). Unfortunately, the effect would be very similar.
ats89117
ats89117 3 місяці тому
Great video, but it seems like the simplest solution would be to supply power using a four wire setup where the kelvin wires were attached after the ammeter with its burden voltage drop. No?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Now I understand. I do not know how fast these power supplies are (they have to be very fast, otherwise you will have a voltage spike when the module goes to sleep which can destroy it). I never saw one used by Makers. Do you know one? But I doubt that it would be much more accurate because the current consumption does not vary a lot with voltage changes (you saw how small the burden voltage of the devices is). With your method you can use a high burden voltage and a regular voltage meter, I think.
ats89117
ats89117 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess If you use a power supply with four wire outputs and place the kelvin connection AFTER the sense resistor, the power supply will maintain the voltage at the DUT despite the potentially high burden voltage... Of course the power supply will need to be able to provide a voltage greater than the sum of the voltage expected by the DUT plus the burden voltage. There are two potential issues for using this method: 1) Keeping the power supply stable with a large sense resistor in the feedback loop might be challenging, but should be doable. And 2) A high quality voltmeter will be required to measure voltages over a very wide range across the large, constant sense resistor. This technique should provide greater accuracy than the method you describe because in the system you describe, even a relatively small burden voltage will generally result in less power being consumed by the DUT.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I thought I used the the kelvin method: Measure current right across the resistor and the voltage after the resistor on the MCU pins. The problem is not the measurement, it is the high resistor you need to create a voltage drop (=burden voltage) for a normal Multimeter without amplifier.
Egil Opsahl
Egil Opsahl 3 місяці тому
Yesterday Mouser had more than 100 pcs on stock of the Power Profiler Kit II. I did not order, thought I had time to think. Today: 0. I hope you get percentages, Andreas! 😅
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I do not get anything. I hope my viewers get a good product. And I hope they can stock up asap
JohnDoe2990
JohnDoe2990 3 місяці тому
Mouser had 106 PPK2 on stock yesterday, now they are all gone. Adafruit has only 17 left. We created a PPK2 shortage 🤣👍
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
As usual on this channel ;-)
I Object
I Object 3 місяці тому
I rather have a Swiss army knife.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
There is not an "either-or" ;-)
সূর্য্য SUN uk
সূর্য্য SUN uk 3 місяці тому
Wow very very helpful practical information 🤩
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad if was helpful!
aspzx
aspzx 3 місяці тому
Very interesting video! Just another pronunciation tip: "Joule" should rhyme with "jewel" or "jool", not "jowel".
Teguh Pratama Nugraha
Teguh Pratama Nugraha 3 місяці тому
Useful and interesting, as always. Thank you abah!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are welcome!
Richard Wenner
Richard Wenner 3 місяці тому
The brown-outs could of course be reduced or alleviated with improved smoothing on the DUT.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I think this is not in our hands because the load defines the current with its internal resistor. If we would try to restrict it we would create a voltage drop and a brownout. Espressif (or the WiFi standard decides on that.
Richard Wenner
Richard Wenner 3 місяці тому
It makes you wonder whether a 'soft-start' could also be programmed in - especially when, say, WiFi elements are activated.
Richard Wenner
Richard Wenner 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess I love some of this low cost kit that is available today. The video is fine as is his site - another rabbit hole to investigate! He also seems to have his own vocabulary when he mentions 'non-idealities'. ('Faff' - we can all get away with).
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
An interesting question. Here is the video I just watched: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/qZ-kd6KtpW940ok.html I will have a look at it during my next video.
Ivan Álvarez Corzo
Ivan Álvarez Corzo 3 місяці тому
I waited 24 hours to get to work and buy it, all major providers stock is down to 0, yesterday there were 50-100+ units in all of them
wlgrd
wlgrd 3 місяці тому
There will be more again soon ☺️
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I hope they have some on order already. Another viewer wrote that, 6 months ago, he ordered a uCurrent Gold and did not receive it so far :-(
Walter Madrassa
Walter Madrassa 3 місяці тому
Excellent video. Thank you Andreas! It added all the missing tiny details to my knowledge on the subject and ... created a window to spend extra 100 dollars on aparently excellent kit from NordicSemi :)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad you liked the video!
Andrew Toogood
Andrew Toogood 3 місяці тому
You convinced me I have ordered one :) Its going to be so much easier than my CurrentRanger/Oscilloscope combo.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I agree. Also because the PC display is much bigger than the screen of the oscilloscope.
Philipp Blum
Philipp Blum 3 місяці тому
I ordered my uCurrent 6 month ago... still haven't received it...
Philipp Blum
Philipp Blum 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess I guess it is the chip shortage.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Interesting. He always had long lead times. But this seems too long for me.
Michael Miller
Michael Miller 3 місяці тому
Fantastic video, thank you so much. Definitely a guaranteed buy!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you!
onecircuit
onecircuit 3 місяці тому
David Johnson-Davies has an excellent nanocurrent measuring device designed on his site "technoblogy" (Oct, 2019). I've used it and profiled it on my channel - it is a nice cheap alternative based on the ATTiny84 (although other microcontrollers may well be suitable as well).
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thanks for the link. He has a lot of nice projects! Using a capacitor as an integrator for small currents is an interesting idea and very cheap. However, it only measures deep-sleep currents. But it avoids the need of an amplifier. It could also be done with just a capacitor and a multimeter if you have the time to measure the time...
mateo ardila
mateo ardila 3 місяці тому
Why did the deep sleep current reduce when you used the power profiler as the supply?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I measured two different points. At the USB connector and at the battery connector.
Mario Zwiers
Mario Zwiers 3 місяці тому
I had exactly the same problem with the Current Ranger. Great video! I'm going to get the Power Profiler as well. :-)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad you liked it!
Z Y
Z Y 3 місяці тому
What was the reason for the deep sleep current being too high in the 5V case? Was it because of the 3.3V regulator?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You have to wait for a next video where I will look at the diagrams of some boards. But probably you are right.
GeorgeGraves
GeorgeGraves 3 місяці тому
It seems like the uCurrent wouldn't be anywhere near as popular if it wasn't Dave who was selling them - it would be just another item on Tindie.
GeorgeGraves
GeorgeGraves 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Yep - totally get that! There are classes of op-amps that are rated as "instrument" op-amps (as I'm sure you know, used in medical equipment often, and other places) but I don't know how noisy they are. Anyways, just FYI, you can breadboard a "uCurrent" in a pinch.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
The problem probably is not the amplifier itself but the resistor. If you design it for your highest currents the minimal burden voltage would be incredible small and not easy to pick up without noise. Switching ranges and use standard components is probably much cheaper.
GeorgeGraves
GeorgeGraves 3 місяці тому
​@Andreas Spiess I guess so. At the heart of it, it's just an instrument opamp and a shunt. I've always wondered if there is an analog chip/device that can scale voltages in a logarithmic fashion so that you could have a *much* wider current range, mapped to something like a 0-5 volt swing, that then you could capture with a scope or whatnot, and then graph expanding the compressed "log" output to its actual range. Seems like it would be the best of both worlds if you could get an opamp that was clean enough.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
5 years ago it was the only cheap solution. It was a brilliant idea back then.
Tiger Cat
Tiger Cat 3 місяці тому
$100 is too much for a uCurrent Gold plus they're hard to find in the US, so here's my version of the micro current adapter, available in the US: www.tindie.com/products/22451/
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I did not know this device. Thanks for the link. It has a good price, indeed.
roboman2444
roboman2444 3 місяці тому
What is the impact of a few capacitors before and after the 3.3v regulator to help smooth out the current spikes? Maybe you can avoid brownouts with them? I've been putting them on my esp32s, and they "seem" to help, but i haven't done any sort of quantitative measurements of it.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Here is an interesting video about this topic: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/qZ-kd6KtpW940ok.html . I decided to have a look at it.
Tony770jr
Tony770jr 3 місяці тому
Very informative. I have an upcoming project where I need such a device.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad you liked the video. They seem to be sold out for the moment :-(
Pascal Chapeau
Pascal Chapeau 3 місяці тому
Andreas , as usual a perfect video. You just forgot the new CX3300 from Keysight, dedicated to this task, for entry price of 40 000$ without probes! Certainly nice to have 😂
Renata Vulnera
Renata Vulnera 3 місяці тому
Just try to purchase a dozen of that instrumenr. They may offer you a discount. Believe me, it worth :-)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you! In my last video about the topic I had the chance to use an N6705C. Also not cheap ;-)
Srinivas s
Srinivas s 3 місяці тому
Did you set all the floating gpios to low before enabling the sleep mode ? my lesson with arduino, sleep mode current improved a lot after putting all the floating pins to low.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
No, I did not do it. But I am not sure if if matters with the ESP32.
Andre Rodrigues
Andre Rodrigues 3 місяці тому
Looks like mouser just got lucky with me!! :)
Andre Rodrigues
Andre Rodrigues 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess You known, I commented just after buying, just in case... I even had a squeeze at the software before pulling the trigger!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Maybe you were also lucky with Mouser. Other viewers report that it is sold out now ;-)
Thomas Berntsson
Thomas Berntsson 3 місяці тому
Usually the deep sleep current is the most critical. The simplest (affordable) way is to use the low range and short the multimeter during esp32 boot (Wi-Fi Connect). No brownsouts. Of Course less data/information.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are right. A few other viewers also suggested this method.
Hessijames79
Hessijames79 3 місяці тому
Videos like this are the reason I am a patreon. Thank you, Andreas.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for your support!
Rastislav Wartiak
Rastislav Wartiak 3 місяці тому
I used original PPK for many years - it was very useful, but the current limit of 80 mA made it usable for BLE/Sigfox/LoRa only. And the software was unstable. PPK II is much better, both current limit and software. I combine PPK with Otii, because Otii can display UART data (I don't need to create extra signals as Andreas did in the video) and Otii can measure higher currents. Once you add motors or other actuators to your project, other tools cannot measure the consumption properly.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Good points. I also have an original PPK but never used it because of its current limitation.
Du Dang
Du Dang 3 місяці тому
Power Profiler Kit II is exactly what I want, too bad I just bought a Current Ranger. Does anyone know of a software to plot and measure from the Bluetooth logger?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You should find the link to the software on its website.
Tony Fleming
Tony Fleming 3 місяці тому
I'm back home and waiting for me was this and other videos - like usually, great details and well done video and suggestions! You are the BEST Andreas! Thank you very much. (PS: I have a new granddaughter in Virginia, where I was past 2 weeks!).
Tony Fleming
Tony Fleming 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Sonner or later something will come for you! I have 3 grandkids and one is 15 years old, so sooner I can become grand-grandpa! You are blessed and I'm also very blessed, that is more than we need!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Congratulations! So you are definitively ahead of me. I am still waiting ;-)
MFBcode
MFBcode 3 місяці тому
Great video! I'm waiting for test of new ESP32 boards (C3 and C6) when will become avaliable
Caio Pedreira
Caio Pedreira 3 місяці тому
Andreas Spiess Is it already possible to program the C3 using the Arduino framework? Thx!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
The -C3 should be out by now. At lest I have some for a few months.
Dr. J. A. LAGHARI
Dr. J. A. LAGHARI 3 місяці тому
Thanks for sharing such a nice information.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are welcome!
Philip P
Philip P 3 місяці тому
Dear Keysight (Old Agilent/Old old HP), Please send over your Power Analyzer to Andreas. :).
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
In my last video about the topic I was allowed to use one of their N6705Cs... No need to have one here. Too big for my lab ;-)
Simon Baxter
Simon Baxter 3 місяці тому
The profiler looks good. I would have bought a Joulescope, but the price doubled since launch and the price tag is just way too high for the maker, hobbiest or small buisiness. I'm sure the sales of Joulescope would rocket and it would dominate the market if the price tag was more competative.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I have one of the first Joulescopes. It has a lot of stuff inside. So it probably cannot be built much cheaper (small series). For measurements like in this video, however, I like the OTII more. It is easier to use and its software is better (my opinion).
Philip P
Philip P 3 місяці тому
o0o an update to Video 245
Philip P
Philip P 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Oh I was happy to see an update to Video 245! I love seeing cheaper options for makers!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I do not understand :-(
Glenn Hamblin
Glenn Hamblin 3 місяці тому
Thanks for the video. I need to add that Nordic instrument to my shopping list. Question is before or after a Picoscope?
Glenn Hamblin
Glenn Hamblin 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess I have a pretty nice scope. I'm interested in some of the additional features of the PC scope. 🤠
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
An oscilloscope is much more versatile. However, I still like mine close to the workbench. I would have to adapt to one controlled from my PC.
DaveMody
DaveMody 3 місяці тому
Yes, thank you Andreas. Seems like it would be very handy. I find these low power projects just fascinating! So here's to another tool in the game!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are welcome! So you probably will like my next video...
Michael Stal
Michael Stal 3 місяці тому
Thanks for the excellent and very useful video. I was just searching for an inexpensive alternative to measure low currents and power. You saved my day :-)
Michael Stal
Michael Stal 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess I am not important 🙂 But I already had contact with Nordic before.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You must be an important guy! They did not ask me ;-)
Michael Stal
Michael Stal 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess For all who are interested: Adafruit has still some of the kits available, but you need to consider the delivery costs etc. Other shops may have up to 52 (!!!) weeks delivery time. The funny fact: I ordered mine yesterday, and today Nordic offered me to send me a kit for review.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad to read that. Now you just have to be lucky to get one. They seem to be sold out :-(
Jose Bravo
Jose Bravo 3 місяці тому
In the electronic goldmine (no affiliation with me) they sell power resistors (5Watts) and 0.02 ohms. Their offer is 3 resistors for 1.99 plus shipping.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for the link. I do not think you need such a powerful resistor. These devices just use SMD resistors which are ok for that purpose.
John Hind
John Hind 3 місяці тому
(useful AND interesting) once again! But one small quibble: do we have to buy into this "3000mAh" nonsense? What is wrong with 3Ah?
John Hind
John Hind 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Even the British Empire (for which our American friends are so nostalgic) measured electric current in amps! I still think abusing the SI prefix system to get a larger headline number for battery capacity (which should in any case be measured in Wh) is something best left to marketing types and not indulged by engineers (who can handle shifting a decimal point as needed)!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
The rest of the calculation often is also in mA. So it is easier I think. But all is better than feet and inches if you ask me ;-)
Mathieu Stephan
Mathieu Stephan 3 місяці тому
the Joulescope is such a great tool to work with... it saved my butt multiple times!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Raad Yacu
Raad Yacu 3 місяці тому
ESp32 should never be used for Low Power Applications . There is something wrong when ESP32 at deep sleep and still consumes 80 uAmps
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Of course there is something wrong. Even more with the 15mA. Now we know and we can start to think ;-)
nabil kontar
nabil kontar 3 місяці тому
Nice video Power profiler kit 2 from nordic is a game changer. Had to wait three months to get it, but it is a huge added value...
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad to hear that you like it!
Philippe
Philippe 3 місяці тому
Yes Andreas, the video was useful. Your demonstration is convincing. Not just anyone can measure! And even when you feel comfortable, you can still be fooled. Many thanks with a Breton accent. ;) ;)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for your feedback!
Jac Mika MEng
Jac Mika MEng 3 місяці тому
Thank you for your review of useful solutions for us makers. However, I would like to point out that Power Ranger can be used with a cheap Bluetooth module HC-05 thanks to your Video #245. Bluetooth serial sends current measurement that Arduino GUI monitor tool can display without the need for oscilloscope.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are right. I heard about that from one of my Patreons. If I remember right, this was not the case when I made my initial review. Still, the author of the software writes that you still need an oscilloscope. Maybe the sampling rate is not very high.
Paul Hammond
Paul Hammond 3 місяці тому
I use a 100mA moving coil meter in series with a 100micro amp meter with a N/C shorting button across it . When I see the current is very low I can press the button to enable the micro ammeter without breaking the circuit , not so good but cheap and enough to test sleep modes
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Another viewer mentioned the same method. It is very cheap and elegant!
Paul Hammond
Paul Hammond 3 місяці тому
Still a nice product !!
Jandar
Jandar 3 місяці тому
On what systems does the software for the Power Profiler Kit II run? Windows / Linux / MacOS?
wlgrd
wlgrd 3 місяці тому
All of them
Rastislav Wartiak
Rastislav Wartiak 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess You can even modify it, it's open source - github.com/NordicSemiconductor/pc-nrfconnect-ppk.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I ran it on Windows. Put it runs also on Linux and Mac
kuro68000
kuro68000 3 місяці тому
This looks like an excellent tool. I was using an Agilent meter with some custom software before, but the max sampling rate was 10KHz and it wasn't nearly as easy to use. It did go to to 3A which was useful for centralist cellular modems but it also cost about 1000€
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
So it was quite cheap for an Agilent ;-) In my last test I was able to use a Keysight Instrument for comparison. This was more than 10'000 dollars. This one here is probably not comparable in quality but good enough if you use it from time.to time.
Santiago Raimondi
Santiago Raimondi 3 місяці тому
does anyone know where can i buy the nordic kit?? (online shops) thxs in advance!! (great video btw)
Daniel Edwards
Daniel Edwards 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess Digikey has 0 stock, as seen in your video as well.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I have mine from digikey
Santiago Raimondi
Santiago Raimondi 3 місяці тому
@Daniel Edwards Thank you!!
Daniel Edwards
Daniel Edwards 3 місяці тому
Mouser still has in stock. Free shipping to EU.
Leo Vinci
Leo Vinci 3 місяці тому
Great video. Question, is Switzerland also impacted with new EU legislation (import/taxes) for China shipments, if yes, any alternatives?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Mouser and Digikey often offer free shipping to Switzerland. And Switzerland still has the 60 CHF rule for Chinese imports.
Daniel Edwards
Daniel Edwards 3 місяці тому
Buy from Mouser.
Ted McFadden
Ted McFadden 3 місяці тому
I'd love to know how you managed to cut a USB cable in the middle so cleanly, without destroying everything inside of it. 😳👍
Ted McFadden
Ted McFadden 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess How did I miss a mailbag?? I'll fix that right now.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
With one of those marvelous cutters shown in the last mailbag ;-)
Darren Tarbard
Darren Tarbard 3 місяці тому
Thanks for this, very informative.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad it was helpful!
ragohy
ragohy 3 місяці тому
Thanks again for your informative Tests. It's hard for me to pick a christmas present... 😃
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are welcome!
var19
var19 3 місяці тому
Many thanks for #NoMidrollAds 👍
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
My pleasure! I do not like them, so I do not use them...
var19
var19 3 місяці тому
The Spiess Effect? On backorder at Farnell (the cheapest listed option at Nordic) with a lead time of "11-10-21" which I fear means that they don't expect stock until mid October!! Huh.
wlgrd
wlgrd 3 місяці тому
There will be stock before October
Daniel Edwards
Daniel Edwards 3 місяці тому
Mouser.
PicoNano
PicoNano 3 місяці тому
Too bad I don't have a use for measuring power consumption so accurately. I would've definitely bought the "Power Profiler Kit II". I usually use a precision 1 Ohm resistor and see what's on the scope, and call it good enough.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
That is for sure good enough for "large" currents. For deep-sleep (below 100 uA you probably need a bigger resistor. Some viewers use a switch across the bigger resistor which they press when the MPU is about to boot again.
Adam Alfath
Adam Alfath 3 місяці тому
I have an eye on PPK2 but I notice the USB isn't isolated. I don't know how big the deal is in term of noise coupling on low range, could it be a deal breaker?
Douglas Peters
Douglas Peters 3 місяці тому
Oh and also on Digi-key..... www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bluebird-labs/BBL-BL1-ENC/13883895?s=N4IgTCBcDaIEIEMAuSA2CBGIC6BfIA
Douglas Peters
Douglas Peters 3 місяці тому
Hi Adam, if USB isolation is important to you (and it should be :-))take a look at the BattLab-One, its USB isolated and does micro current capture PLUS battery what-if analysis. Full disclosure, I am the maker for BattLab-One. You can get it from my site or Elektor.... www.bluebird-labs.com www.elektor.com/battlab-one-battery-life-optimizer-with-enclosure Dave Jones video: ukposts.info/have/v-deo/ZZ6od4-dnZxnqZc.html
Adam Alfath
Adam Alfath 3 місяці тому
Dang it, and now it's gone from the market. Needed to wait several month to be re-stock from major distributor. Thanks to your video I guess :D
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I did not look at it. I have some USB isolator boards handy if I need them (or a laptop). I also use battery power for such measurements, So ground usually is no big deal for me.
Lost In Tech
Lost In Tech 3 місяці тому
I went with the lo-fi way of "divide the length of time it takes to drain a battery by the voltage". It's a shame nobody invented an arduino based device yet like the oscilloscopes.
Lost In Tech
Lost In Tech 3 місяці тому
@TheRainHarvester haha ;)
TheRainHarvester
TheRainHarvester 3 місяці тому
@Lost In Tech I sense a topic for the next video.
Lost In Tech
Lost In Tech 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess interesting! So it's not only theoretically possible then..
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
All thee digital meters are not much more than an amplifier, ADC and an MCU. The Current Ranger even uses an "Arduino" chip and is programmed with the IDE. Only the Joulescope uses an FPGA for range switching AFAIK.
Lost In Tech
Lost In Tech 3 місяці тому
@TheRainHarvester I meant the self assembly one you can now buy just about anywhere like banggood but yeah basically same thing. You would think you could make something similar for measuring low currents somehow. I will check out your channel!
This One
This One 3 місяці тому
+
Simon Moore
Simon Moore 3 місяці тому
Thanks for another informative video. Minor point: you often say “comfortable” when “convenient” would be a better word. When you say “not very comfortable” it makes me think that you are in pain!
superdau
superdau 3 місяці тому
One of the "false friends" of German and English. "komfortabel" is often used in the sense of "easy to use" or "convenient". It also does have the meaning as in "comfy chair", but now that I think about it I almost never hear someone used it in that way. I don't know about the Swiss though. Their "German" is weird sometimes ;) .
Richard Wenner
Richard Wenner 3 місяці тому
Simon, no please! The vocabulary along with the accent is all part of the magic of this site. :)
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for your hint! I hope I will not forget it in the future.
Mike Snapper
Mike Snapper 3 місяці тому
I wouldn't say that all oscopes are connected to ground, my owon USB scope is isolated so that way people don't fry their expensive computers. But other than that a good video, i never even considered that the shunt for micro amps in the amp meter could be a problem when measuring higher currents before the device goes to sleep, this will probably save me some future debugging time.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I never had a USB oscilloscope. Interesting. AFAIK they have to do that to prevent 220 volt on the case if you connect the GND of your probe the wrong way round. What happens if you connect it via USB to your PC?
andymouse123
andymouse123 3 місяці тому
Very interesting....cheers.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you!
Sacha H
Sacha H 3 місяці тому
Ihre Videos sind immer ein Genuss - inhaltlich, didaktisch, qualitativ. Respekt und Danke dafür! Sacha, Basel
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Vielen Dank!
kuro68000
kuro68000 3 місяці тому
EEVblog mocking BLM on Twitter and doxing people is reason enough not to use his gear. Glad Nordic is providing an affordable alternative.
digitalradiohacker
digitalradiohacker 3 місяці тому
I've extended to a legal complaint for hate speech. The legal instrument used was section 4A of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/33/body/enacted Intentional harassment, alarm or distress (1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he- (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress. All you had to do was: (A) Provide proof (B) Delete the comment
digitalradiohacker
digitalradiohacker 3 місяці тому
@kuro68000 So you're not going to post the proof then? Okie dokie - reported for hate speech.
kuro68000
kuro68000 3 місяці тому
@digitalradiohacker I'm not here to stratify your curiosity. Don't bother replying, I won't.
digitalradiohacker
digitalradiohacker 3 місяці тому
@kuro68000 You guess? Careful, you're making pretty specific accusations, and there is still no proof on display. Look, you could edit out any names on a screen grab. You could post the URL and we could use the way-back machine to root it out. Post the proof and we'd all see what you're talking about. You announced that he did something, so you must have wanted people to know....
kuro68000
kuro68000 3 місяці тому
@digitalradiohacker I guess it's a malicious communication, threat and data protection violation.
Dan BENDAVID- Ipad
Dan BENDAVID- Ipad 3 місяці тому
Dear Master Andreas, as always, your analysis are perfects. I have a request for your next video : could you explore the making of a low energy blé or zygbee sensor leveraging nRF 51 or similar MCU and check if this can works on battery powered devices (cr2032) beyond temperature sensors like CO2, lux, pm ?
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
It for sure would work on batteries because they are very efficient. The NRF52 chips are on my list...
3ATIVE VFX Studio
3ATIVE VFX Studio 3 місяці тому
❤ The Swiss are a bonus to us all... Even their flag is a huge plus. 🤣
Miyu Sama
Miyu Sama 3 місяці тому
@Andreas Spiess please do a performance comparison of esp32, esp32-s2 and esp32-c3
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
:-)) Thanks.
DIY Projects With Chuxxsss
DIY Projects With Chuxxsss 3 місяці тому
Guess what Andreas, yes I finally found 3 piece of gold this weekend. Wait till you see my new batteries very big. Also thanks for your last comment mate on my channel.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Congratulations!
MartinMartin Martin
MartinMartin Martin 3 місяці тому
sleep mode current measurement of a device: An 1mv FS A/D will be used to measure the DCvoltage drop across the Rgnd where R]gnd : a 100cm 20awg wire that supplies Gnd current to the device under test. 20awg wire => 52.96^milli-ohm/meter example: the A/D indicates 75uvDC voltage drop across the R]gnd wire I]sleep = Vmeas/R]gnd = 75*10^-6/53*10-3 = 1.41*10^-3 = 1.41ma
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Interesting method. Do you not have problems with noise on this long ground wire and the small voltages? Why do you not use a much smaller (dimension) resistor with the same value? This is what these meters shown in the video do (they even use SMD resistors to reduce noise). They use a relatively small resistor and an amplifier + standard ADC (mV meter)
Oscar Peters
Oscar Peters 3 місяці тому
Otii can do 5V output, when using an external power supply and turning off auto range
Oscar Peters
Oscar Peters 3 місяці тому
​@Andreas Spiess True :(
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
You are right. But why would I use the OTII without auto ranging? Makes not a lot of sense for the setup in this video. I never understood why they did not include the range up to 5 volts.
Hélio Mendonça
Hélio Mendonça 3 місяці тому
It is not the first time you mention this Nordic product and I immediately bought it and I am very pleased. Thank you.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you for sharing your experience!
muctop
muctop 3 місяці тому
shouldn´t a capacitor be able to delivier that 478mA peak ? Why is it missing?
Rastislav Wartiak
Rastislav Wartiak 3 місяці тому
Use a supercap - 0.5F 5.5V is quite cheap and does wonders. But doing current measurements with such a capacity is tricky - it will smooth the peaks, but it will then consume the current for longer periods, because it needs to recharge
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Of course it could provide this current. But it probably need a big one. This is not cheap. I add a 1000uF cap in my projects. Maybe I will have a look to this matter in my next video.
Daniel Edwards
Daniel Edwards 3 місяці тому
Thanks! I picked one up on Mouser, they have them in stock still it seems. But they are going QUICK! Looking forward to next weeks video already.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I got mine from Digikey...
Benjamin Eggerstedt
Benjamin Eggerstedt 3 місяці тому
Nice video! Thank you! We already got a preview in the beginning of the video of the upcoming boards. Looking forward to those DUATs (Devices Under Andreas Test) :) Have a nice Sunday!
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Thank you! The test should follow before my summer brake.
Nick Hubbard
Nick Hubbard 3 місяці тому
Thanks Andreas, a very informative video.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Glad you enjoyed it!
Petit Toto
Petit Toto 3 місяці тому
I know you can't say it but you/we can use a cable without the ground wire for the oscilloscope for this type of work...
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
I usually do not do it like that ;-) And I also have an isolation transformer for such tests.
RoterFruchtZwerg
RoterFruchtZwerg 3 місяці тому
Thx, very informative as always :) I use a simple trick: Just wire a switch in parallel with your multimeter. This way you can bypass the burden resistor whenever you want. Just close the switch when the ESP boots up and open it when it is in deep sleep. This way you can measure deep sleep with the mA range of your meter without any issues, and that's what you care most. I've got a 1P2T toggle switch connected to a NO/NC microswitch for this. It allows me to select if pressing the microsowtch opens or closes the bypass ;)
John Ellis
John Ellis 3 місяці тому
Yes, that's how I do it too. My esp32 is in deep sleep most of the time so I am mostly interested in deep sleep current so the multimeter and switch is my cheap solution. That's how I discovered that having wake on touch in micropython uses 200uA, not helpful 🤣
Axel Hertwig
Axel Hertwig 3 місяці тому
I also just shortcut the multimeter with a stacked cable and/or change ranges. Same works with 2 shunts in series (one cut short for high currents). You can also measure in front of a low quiescent current LDO to get some rough indication. Nevertheless I now plan to upgrade to this one. Looks very convinient.
Andreas Spiess
Andreas Spiess 3 місяці тому
Very good idea! Then you have to "stitch" the two values together. In the beginning I did it without switch and just let the ESP crash.
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