Which side do you think has the more compelling case - the ACC or FSU/Clemson?

Somebody is salty about FSU.

This dispute is not about if a contract was signed. It is about exactly what it says and what is enforceable. FSU asked those questions specifically.

I love the argument that “they signed a contract” is all that matters and there’s no such thing as breach of contract or fiduciary duty on the part of the ACC. There are legitimate concerns for both sides and it’s ridiculous to pretend there isn’t. Especially when it’s well known that the ACC and ESPN are desperate to avoid discovery in FL, which requires documents to be made public.

Wow, the attorney said that FSU is broke! FSU's brand and TV viewership is one of the top programs in all of college football. The ACC and the remaining schools need FSU and Clemson. In a worst case scenario, FSU and Clemson pays whatever the penalty is to leave. ESPN would have little incentive to extend the ACC TV contract by February 2025 in what would be damn near an unwatchable football conference. Phillips would have a really hard time selling a media rights package of the remaining schools to any network outside of Raycom.

Never use this lawyer! He has no idea what's going on....lol

The ACC rush to Court was without taking the vote of the ACC Member’s & the vote needed to be by 2/3 before filing a lawsuit against FSU. The ACC Violated their own bylaws when they rushed to court. The State of Florida 2nd Judicial Circuit Judge Cooper has ruled Florida State University is first to Court. Let’s talk about discovery; because, the State of Florida operates under the “Sunshine Law”. That means everything will be available to the public, so the actions by ESPN/ACC will be on full display for all to see. Holding University’s as hostages is not going to work. It is worth mentioning there is a growing possibility that the ACC will be nuked before June 30th 2024. A simple Majority is all that is needed: FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Miami, and Louisville want out. Pitt & Georgia Tech maybe want out. The ACC said, a negotiated by back of GOR & Exit was possible. Instead, the ACC has chosen not to hold any negotiations. By the way extension only has an ACC Commissioner signature. ESPN as already told the ACC they will not extend their contract. At best the ACC Will exist thru to 2027, but the ACC could die in 2024. When UNC says they want out the ACC is in trouble.

This case isn't simply that schools signed the GoR contract. One of the issues is how the extension to 2036 with ESPN was given. The schools were never provided that information, and the ACC & ESPN don't want it disclosed. The South Carolina court has ordered the ESPN contact to be provided to Clemson in discovery, but not made public. Secondly, FSU alleges that the former commissioner of the ACC did not act in the best interest of the conference members when he sold some of the media rights to Raycom which was in financial disparity and his son and I believe his wife as well worked for Raycom. Also, ESPN has an option to extend their media rights to 2036. I believe that is in question because I think FSU was saying that the option was never disclosed. They also question that if ESPN has an option, is the ACC's claim of rights enforceable or invalid? They question whether you can have control over the conference members based on an option in the media contract with a third party, which is ESPN. Again, none of that was disclosed to the conference members at the time of the extension. They were told it was an extension, not an option to extend. The question is whether this is valid because what increases in revenue will the conference members receive. Because of the poorly handled contract with ESPN and the dealings with Raycom, FSU also claims the ACC did not perform its fiduciary responsibilities. This case has more complexities than simply asking if the language in the contact supports the ACC's position.

This laywer is laughable and btw we're never going to get to a point where we actuality find out who would win . Also I'll add every contract ever drawn up are breakable it just takes the right motivated parties and the money to find the way out

How do you have a buyout on future media rights that ESPN may not even exercise, which would end its contract with the ACC in 2027? The GoR and contract with ESPN needs to be provided to all parties in the lawsuits a d perhaps all the schools in the ACC. Basically, the schools were agreeing to a black box agreement the ACC made with ESPN relying only on what the ACC told them.

Instead of this guy who knows nothing about the suit or what is going on, you need to get on a more credible Attorney like Doug Rohan who has been following this case very very closely since the beginning AND was at the North Carolina hearing in person.

Sorry, but this is difficult to watch. You can’t just punt on the legal issues and the dates because you don’t know them out they aren’t convenient. FSU’s main problem with the grant of rights is that they were only good through 2021, but were extended without notification by the ACC through 2026 with a clause until 2036. FSU claims that in the state of Florida, it’s unlawful to enter into any agreement without the written consent of all the parties. Meaning that FSU was no longer legally held to the grant of rights after 2021.

Your guest lawyer is laughable. It’s clear that he hasn’t watched the hearings, read and of the documents, or have any creditable background to speak on the matter. The Mackenzie (Duke) attorney, he referenced in the show, has been kicked around utube and twitter for weeks for his clear ACC bias and false legal references. Rewatch your video and count how many times your guest said he has no legal experience on lawsuit topics, not up to date on the cases and tells how to try these cases with no legal history on trial law. Is his opinion held up, why did the ACC lose the stay in FL? Or the NC judge rule FSU has no fiduciary responsibility to the ACC?

Duke guy loses credibility with the ad hominem, "FSU is broke". FSU's athletic revenue was $170m last year. Keep the lies out of this. Duke guy says FSU and Clemson's lawsuits are "nonsense" and "you signed a contract". What an incredibly superficial and lazy argument. Maybe address the specific claims made in the suits, and how they're attempting to exploit potentially poor language within the contracts (that espn and the acc signed - whoopsies). Contracts are not allowed to levy penalties. There is a reasonable argument that the acc is attempting to penalize schools who wish to leave. The gor was NOT for the purpose of the acc bundling its media rights to espn. The acc signed a new espn deal in 2010, and then amended it in 2012. Both of those were PRIOR to the gor being signed in 2013, ergo the gor was not a necessity for the acc to secure a tv deal. Did acc commissioner jim Phillips have the right to amend the espn deal in 2021 without a league vote? If not, does that mean the deadline for espn to exercise the 9yr option already expired? What consideration did the acc receive by extending the deadline? A contract cannot legally be a contract without consideration. There's a lot more to this - legally - than a simple case of buyer's remorse. Duke guy did a very poor job of explaining that to the viewers. Either it was intentional, or he's simply ignorant to many of the facts of the case. He did suggest people read/watch David McKenzie, after all. That guy is incredibly biased, refuses to discuss the stronger elements of FSU/Clemson's claims, and blocks EVERYBODY on Twitter who tries to engage in discussing the merits of the case that he ignores.

If ESPN doesn't extend the deal beyond 2027, there's a strong case to be made that GoRs to 2036 is n/a

The problem is Clemson and FSU care about football the rest don’t and they will fall way behind if they don’t get out. This expert is wrong FSU has shown The Commissioner (Swaford ) hid bad deals

Fiduciary responsibility in NC I thought was important due to damages to the conference. Florida should be able to hear a case in their state where games are played and citizens of Florida will have to pay the 1/2 billion dollars.

FSU had their worst 4 year stretch ever and still had better ratings during that span then the entire ACC. Joke of a conference

This Duke attorney is a joke. Biased beyond any point of reasonableness. Zero credibility as he’s not presenting both sides of the argument in good faith. He maintains the ACC has bad ratings. Well FSU has exceptional ratings (Top 6 nationally) and Clemson’s is not too far behind. This guy has spouted SEVERAL erroneous facts, so I’m moving on. If you’re looking for an attorney that understands the meaning of balanced objectivity AND knowledge, contact Doug Rohan. BTW, FSU is Very Highly valued by the Big 10 (and possibly the SEC). Just a jealous, biased Duke fan representative of a narrow minded loser conference!!

The Blues Brothers reference wins you the internet today

He acts like you traded money for long term security. What long term security do you have if ESPN was granted a unilateral out without permission in 2027? What security? I don’t know who wins the case, but I would argue that there is no situation where Clemson and FSU crawl back to the ACC. They may lose and have to borrow a huge painful sum of money to get their media rights back as worst case scenario, but they aren’t staying for another 12 years to pay the bills for the other schools. That is just a dream of fans from other schools

13:59

On a surface level, the GOR seems ironclad, and that all of the members essentially transferred the right to negotiate the media to the conference. That said, the overarching purpose of the agreements was to keep the Conference competitive with the other major conferences. The ACC has not fulfilled that with its business dealings. That does not mean that the Conference has to pay the same as the SEC and B1G, but it is a reasonable expectation of the members to expect the contract to keep the teams competitive. Thus a frustration of purpose argument could be made with regard to the agreements.

FSU has way better ratings than Clemson. And FSU has the same amount of natties with half the time of being a program.

Note the 28 minute mark where he says: "I don't see any valid defense to this but that doesn't mean that some judge somewhere won't just come up with something crazy and completely void it." In other words, he doesn't really believe what he is saying. He's saying this to justify what he knows is nonsense and he knows this nonsense will eventually be exposed . So when the ACC does lose, he has an "out."

I don’t think I heard the guest argue against either the Florida State or Clemson case. The Clemson case is that if they were voted out of the ACC, the ACC does not retain their meteorites. The guest had waived that as invalid, but I am not sure why. Happy to hear his reaction here. Further fsu is not claiming that they don’t like the deal anymore. They are claiming that the deal was new, was negotiated and extended without their say.

😂😂Man I wish this clown was working for the ACC right now…this case would’ve been over as soon as he attempted to open his mouth lol “Listen your honor, Never mind the ACC breaching it’s fiduciary responsibilities, never mind the ACC failing to maintain a competitive edge per the agreements of the contract, never mind the ACC failing to represent, support, or even acknowledge its members during the actual football season (as opposed to the SEC, the B1G, the PAC, & the XII), never mind the ACC having damning evidence of criminal misdealings…the ACC should still win becasue I’m a Duke fan & we need FSU’s money to survive”😂😂😂

Zero understanding of the actual complaints brought against the ACC.

All FSU has to do to ‘win’ is to settle for less than the full ACC penalty (130 million) AND the GOR buy back (estimated 400 million). FSU’s lawsuit seeks a court judgement on whether the penalties are enforceable. The ACC on the other hand is out for blood and the actions after the initial filing of stripping FSU’s conference authority are all punitive. The ACC has proven time and time again that it is a bad business partner. While some may think FSU is the bad business partner for trying to leave and is leaving because of a bowl snub, a terribly narrow minded view of the situation and a further indication of why the ACC is a failing conference of good old boy Carolina homers that only look out for the business interests of North Carolina.

FSU and Clemson.. because the fiscal irresponsible decision the ACC made by signing that terrible contract for all its Members.

lmao... this attorney has no idea what is going on.

FSU Clemson etc are gone. The ACC is no more

How do you define “win”? The court battles are really to set the exit fee. FSU is leaving no matter, which when it happens - and it will - marks the beginning of end of the ACC.

More biased not equipped ..duke heading to SEc bball Football elsewhere ...this guy is so behind the curve ...

The acc failed to all acc school on provided records to all schools on TV deals the refusing to over record on ESPN deal this all schools In the acc show sue the acc for wrong doing a felony charges against the acc

This won't be a technical legal outcome. It will be, like most actions, a financial outcome. And right now, the big players in the ACC want to "lose" this to FSU. That's huge. Not the technical issues. Watch and see.

I am surprised that FSU is appealing the denial of their motion to dismiss on the basis of so-called "sovereign immunity", as it is the weakest argument that FSU made. I suppose that they felt they had no choice since the judge laughed that argument out of court, by noting that the denial was "FINAL". As a matter of legal strategy, I believe that an advocate should lead and highlight his strongest argument, not his weakest.

He said bad facts made for bad law right.

There is nothing unclear in Pickens county. peace out dueces 😢

FSU competes against (and is surrounded by) SEC schools. We’ve won THREE (3) national championships and have played in 2 others. When there is a $40M-$50M gap in media funds to FSU that is unsustainable for the brand/school. Most ACC schools not named FSU/Clemson may be fine with that ACC = BIG 12 payout talking point, but in reality the ACC is fighting against FSU retaining our right to remain a Nat Champ caliber school. That is unacceptable. Try to understand that perspective.

The lawyer has to do more research. Mckenzie graduated from Duke with a degree in theology. He went to a fourth tier nc law school. His analysis completely misses the LEGAL ISSUES....the litigation Isa contracts dispute....smh

I was disappointed there was no mention of the FACT that you had a lawyer talking about how contract law applied to a contract he had never read. The ACC contract is over a hundred pages long and kept under lock and key in a room the ACC limits access to. Both the ACC and ESPN have made motions to the court to limit how much of the contract will ever be disclosed. Bottom line is there are too many talking heads commenting about a contract they have never even seen less yet read.

No one watching believes this hack JD

Money is material?

The acc needs 7 acc schools to shut done the acc it's already there and more in the acc are the acc sueing them for antitrust law

I would say that your guest is basically correct on the legal issues. The fraud, nepo, etc. claims are weak and hard to prove. Public policy arguments are the strongest. Some of the non-legal claimed are a bit silly.

FSU is the rest of the conference’s”Huckleberry” and if it makes it to discovery which I don’t think the ACC will let it get that far , the ACC may pay FSU to leave! 😂 To much nepotism and back room backhanded deals that are not in the conference’s best interest.

Whether FSU pays $0 to $500 o bet they leave

Hot garbage takes. 😂

There a corrupt charges the acc

Dad'sand chad's hahaha this guy . The fighting dukes and there crapy tv ratings

The acc is a is mafia

Dude think you need to go back and review your law degree! FSU & CU are gone! You tobacco rod boys have been underwritten by us too long. Time to cut the leash!

ACC has til February 2025 to make a deal. If not, ESPN will end their deal with the ACC and everyone gets out for free. ACC better settle soon

😂😂😂😂😂

I love how the ACC legal team does everything right, but FSU is in the wrong for everything lmao. No one wants to get someone from FSU's side just the ACC. Odd

What a clown show.

Yes I understand Florida State sign the contract but here's the ESPN broke that contract rule by saying they would not give Florida State the money that they were worth we were told Florida state was supposed to get 50 million dollars and ESPN said no no no no no no no we're only going to give you 15 million that's pathetic.? @saturdayswarriorbyu

Listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen guys we would never been in this predicament or situation with FSU suing the ACC which is the Atlantic Coast conference we would never been in this situation if they would have just done the right thing and put us in the college football playoff like they should they should have just college football playoff in which is Florida State state because they went undefeated.? @saturdayswarriorbyu