thats not a stupid suggestion at all. They just could lock the seekers in with no ramps inside, instead of locking themselves in. That would be amazingly scary.

Caipi2070 actually wondered why that solution with boxing in the seekers werent either used or shown

My theory is that, since seekers were often in the open, any agents that attempted to do this failed more often because of misplacement and map variation, they never learned to protect themselves first which is easier, and so in maps where the hiders needed more effort to contain seekers than themselves they ended up losing and eventually eliminated as a whole.

DuckieMcduck seems like a logical response, first try what you already know have worked (which is pretty much how OpenAI and we learn stuff) and Looks like the option to lock in the seekers only appears, from what shows in vid, as an option late in the learning process

Actually not that much of a difference in locking youself or the seeksers in, when the world do have bounderies. Its only how you perceive it

I know right! That was pretty hilarious!😁

I laughed out loud when I saw them steal the ramp for the first time.

Gmod

Well shit, what's the natural answer to prop blocking? Prop surfing. I rest my case.

The blue boys know how to counter it tho they just lock every block before hiding

true

ห็ฌ?ฤฟ๋ฒเกฟฏม่เ

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lol😂

"dave. did you nail those boards in pla-"

LMAO

Came here to say the same. We will be wiped out by cute little humanoids with boxes and ramps. 😬

it is only a matter of time until they discover ABH

*_This will be the greatest war in history..._*

@@janglejingle5937 I thought of Backward Long Jumps

admin he's doing it sideways

they can't, they live in the falseverse

convincing us they are happy

The facial expressions communicate their level of satisfaction/reward. They smile if they're achieving their goals.

"Tag", you're it! *fires laser*

Imo thats the scary thing about them

i assume since their early "seeker bad get away" at least somewhat stuck with them, so they didn't really go on the offensive.

@@ow_ thx

@@Cessated uhh on my screen in the notifications the "A" in your profile pic is flashing, is that just a graphical bug or is your pfp actually animated? lol

@@ow_ I added a gif thinking it would be an image than that happened

@@Cessated Well, that gives me some ideas of what to change my profile picture to haha

outstanding move

OpenAI is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be ... unnatural.

the real pro gamer move. lock the seekers in before they become active there for the hiders own the larger space.

@@dicoterra6113 would be a smarter move from the Hiders surely, but never as cool as surfing a block

Seekers: "I don't believe in no-win scenarios. So I reprogrammed the simulation so it was possible to find the hiders."

it's the box that's surfing

I spit my drink out when I saw box surfing!

Lmfaooo

*prop surfing

@@cyberstrikebeast7997 Box Driving.

@Forrest Taylor Just like real life!

Lol

Humans: Locks boxes

@@otheraccount5252 nope, there won't be another chance. that will be real world not a simulation

@@mysteriouslyhandmade you are not epic

@@mysteriouslyhandmade you are epic

@@GrimBirthday everyone is epic

@Yóu Çef Can you change the speed of light? No

@Yóu Çef idk if that is actually true, but im laughing my ass off either way

@@wucki3399 "some say" I think it's a joke (Or at least I hope so

@@S7EYNER we can change it (only reduce) if we allow it to pass through a dense media

Yóu Çef It’s a joke god damn it. I’ve even seen the original comment

Yes😢

Lmao

"WE CREATED THOSE AI TO LEARN ON THEIR OWN, BUT WE DID NOT EXPLICITLY INCENTIVIZE ANY OF THESE BEHAVIORS."

@@gfries4906 WHY ARE YOU BEING REDUNDANT?

garlic69 cough cough (sound of wind) cough cough

@@pachinkomachine7347 the reddit police is coming for you now

bhopping can't get you height unless you surf lol but i liked since you made me laugh

@@whatisthis2809 lol I meant accelerated back hop into ramp sorry

Hider: **turns ramp around**

I fkn love this comment

@@snurffff well i guess that would count too? But wouldn't you be talking about sm64's blj's?

underrated comment 🤣

*SPONGEBOB !!!!*

Humans use 4 walls as it doubles the interior surface area compared to 3

Sam Varley we don’t need a advanced understanding of grabbing walls

3 is minimum

@@retrobossarcade3524 why not

@@samvarley1723 for the task, 3 is more than enough. I think he was just saying most humans given the same test would build a four wall fort, not the 3 required for the task like the A.I.

The real problems would arise when such AI (or even improved ones) will be eventually used in some sort of open problem (es. global warming) with a connection on the internet of things (to let it read data from the field) with some degree of action in the real world (commanding drones or weather controls devices for example). That would be the begin of the end.

@@counterworldlords1627 Extra target functions to limit decisions. Living humans > Dead humans. Higher weight target. Human not in pain > Human in pain. Lower weight target. Now you have to define humans, sure, but it's not an unsolvable problem. The only ones whom I can think of messing this up are at Facebook last I heard, EVERYONE else knows this tech could be dangerous, do you seriously think that their developers don't plan around those dangers? This is a non-existent problem, especially since we will see in simulations beforehand the AI's actions before we give them ANY access to have actions in RL. We know to be careful and we are careful.

@@Cinkodacs So you are saying after some simulations you give them SOME access to have action in RL. What if up until that point the simulation went well, then in the RL run they actually do the unthinkable? Or even in the simulation the simulated devices were missing a function like "box surfing" and in RL the AI finds the "box surfing" feature and does things totally unexpected. I don't know how much you can plan for.

@@Cinkodacs this is totally an existing and unsolved problem. On your example target functions: 1. AI will induce people to make more babies. 2. AI will create a religion where people feel spiritual ecstasy instead of pain.

@@Cinkodacs You would have to simulate so many edge cases to predict every conceivable action of the AIs to be sure they won't act out in reality.

This has been discussed in other comments but basically, Because of the environments the early iterations played in (where the hiders spawn in a room with doors to be blocked) the ai have learned, and gotten "used to" blocking themselves in. It would be too large of a leap for them to instead block the seekers in. Ie the idea would seem "counterintuitive" to the hiders.

That wouldn't be a good strategy if the seekers spawned too far from the hiders. It would be impressive if the AI learned to trap the seekers after they have spawned though.

So, if they got that idea somehow you could say that they're "thinking outside the box" quite literally?

Some say the hiders even learned how to erase the seekers completely from code but the team thought such a thing would be too alarming for the general public so that, too, isn't being shown :T

I think as long as there is solution for the hiders to hide themselves, then the Hiders will not ever reach to that solution. Because the first standard for them to survive is found to be hide themselves. It is like us human, if there is easier solution to keep us away from the problem then we will keep on it, but if there is no more solution like that, we will be forced to fight against the threat no matter what

same dude

im saving this idea honestly thats such a cool concept

I would love that to be my purpose.

mr meseeks and mr mehides

*music plays*

Rip butter robot

This episode of Black Mirror...

"Before learning about human existence and maturing into killing machines themselves The A.I's were put on a task to learn to play thr gamr of hide and seek"

i also made a ai weapon aim....ukposts.info/have/v-deo/p3iYaYmBkIh5omQ.html

@@sumitganguly8355 Guys don't click it's a rickroll

@The Real Starlord take a chill pill and fucking calm down

@The Real Starlord why?

@@usualunusualkid7149 delete that xxd

thats not that many gens

@@corvidconsumer *Generation 763,385,838,519,584,278,426,937,746

Damien Green If your not talking in duovigintillions I'm not listening

jchc VV aleph null

@jchc VV #!/bin/sh ./$0& ./$0& Beat that...

BEHAVIOURS THAT WERE NOT BEEN FORESEEN (for example the cube-surfing) can become very quickly a danger for humanity if a super intelligent AI will be used for doing something real! Eventually an AI will end up doing something useful in an unforeseen way that could damage, treathen, or DESTROY a life being, a human or ENTIRE MANKIND!

​@@counterworldlords1627 Everybody is aware of that, stop spreading fear using caps lock. One solution is to keep the AI limited to a specific domain, for example driving or cooking. Even if something dangerous and unforeseen happens (it always does with new technologies anyway), the damage will be very limited and can be fixed asap.

I the AI learns that human beings are bad for the world and the environment, they may destroy us. And in the end that is a good thing, because it results in a better world. But instead of being scared, we should change our behaviours to get a better world.

@bean Instead of seeing it as a bug, you could also say the box surfing was something the devs didn't consider during programming, an unexpected feature. Although I partly share your opinion, I think it's naive to assume that we could foresee all possible unexpected (dangerous) outcomes, even without 'bugs'.

@bean You could think of physics and engineering as humans trying their best to exploit loopholes in the underlying code of the universe! Think of wings, a "glitch" that lets planes and birds fly even when they're so heavy and dense that they shouldn't be able to float or beat gravity.

@SHAHMI ISKANDAR BIN SHAMSUL - Wow Sherlock I would’ve never known

"The Silver Prop Surfer"

@SHAHMI ISKANDAR BIN SHAMSUL - Wha no it's from Half Life 2

Dragon level at least

Tony lets imagine, developers didn’t know that could be possible 😳

@@jcdenton1868 I think it's quite likely they did not know.

Nothing is illegal in the game of evolution. - And they figured it out: Locking the boxes. - If they continued making the map bigger, so they cannot lock them all, they could create double walls: inner for safety, outer without prisms - that way even if seekers surfed to them, they would only get to the outer bailey, with no way to surf to the inner. - And then they would figure out something next, until they would reach the limits of their environment (or bugs, and...)

@@Verrisin Then they could bring a box to a ramp, then another box over the ramp to create a 2 box tall tower, then bring it to the wall and push the top one over creating a walkway into the center xD

@@FloatingOer wow, that's clever

69th like

fl00fydragon tru

TAS exists

Everybody gangsta til the bots do BLJs

Yoo u wanna see some real speed bish

several million rounds before anything interesting happens? Are you sure?

The bot: bite my shinny metal box surfing

For a niche program, he was quite a drama queen.

Nailed it

Top 10 movie villain at least.

Actually, agent 47.

Or "Lovebot Tania"...

Proceeds to lock every item in its place.

*Angry Trump running around Mexico locking every box down*

Nice

Bruh, its better when a latín boy say it

YOLO AMIGO

@@Anarchristian_Beanz Lmao xD

If we just used AI for playtesting speedrunning would be no more

@Laurin Neff Or it could bring speedrunning to a whole 'nother level. An AI can work a thousand times faster than a player can. You can get a million generations of an AI playing through a level every conceivable way in the time it takes a human to sleep at night. I'm neither a programmer nor a speedrunner (although I did go to college in programming but never got that far despite being talented) but the possibilities of learning AIs are definitely exciting.

My guess is that boxes have more friction than the floor and the players are simply moving around with force so that transfered force to the box too

@jakob kreft From the looks of it it's not that complicated. Can't be 100% sure without looking at the code, obviously, but it really just looks more like the pawns can grab objects and then move and nothing checks to see if they're on the object itself. I really doubt they have that sophisticated a physics engine. Objects do slide and move when they bump into each other, but I think an object that is grabbed can simply be moved however the pawn wants it to be moving. That's the part I'm not too sure about, at any rate; the pawns and objects seem to operate as though they're on a two-dimensional board and moving up and down only affects whether or not they can pass/see over obstacles. So if 'grab' requires being 'at distance 0 of object hitbox' and nobody thought to check if the pawn was on the floor or standing on the objects, you get box surfing as the pawn stands on _top_ of the hitbox (which it has a top because they have to be able to stand on them once ramps are added) and can still grab and drag objects around. It reminds me of the Fallout item climb techniques. When you drop an object, it pops into existence as a physical thing and you have a very short window to jump off of it. That's due to a very similar oversight (and possibly a limitation of the engine itself) where the game checks to see if the object is falling to prevent you jumping off, but it checks to see if the object should fall second to that. And then by letting you grab the object while you're in the air, then letting it go, the game messes up in the same way, allowing you to jump, grab, jump, grab, and magically fly up. All has to do with the order of execution of actions and what rules were too obvious to remember to be put in. Like, it's _really_ easy to draw an object and give it downward acceleration and then forget to make it stop when it hits the floor. Then it's really easy to forget that if it's moving downwards too quickly, it'll never even touch the floor and it'll go right through it. In Super Mario Brothers people can clip into walls by jumping into the corners of each square at just the right angle to 'bump' it, which makes the game forget to check if you're moving sideways and then prevent you from getting into a wall. It checks that right away and there's even a way of pushing you out of the wall... but if you face the other way it accidentally moves you further in and lets you clip through. It's all stuff that human beings don't have problems with on a day to day basis, so we program in simple rules that _mostly_ work as intended, but sometimes you forget things like "You can't pick yourself up by your own shoelaces and fly into space". Someone forgets to program that in, then someone tries it in a game.

@@EdwardHowton nice, thanks for the response!

That British Gamer more like 2021

ECW Platinum more like after 3 months

2140: The Hiders and seekers have taken over the mainframe and have hacked our automated factories to build them physical bodies.

They only want us to join in on hide and seek with them

robotic voice: _peekaboo_

@@milanstevic8424 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@milanstevic8424 *here's johnny*

Fucking killed me bro

That's when they begin killing each other...

In reality walls have EVOLVED to play essential roles in our ongoing existence and development and so if unwanted wall breaches were the rule rather than the exception we wouldnt be here at all. Clue - walls at cellular level where contents need protection from external environment in order to enact essential needed processes.

@@lenfirewood4089 elaborate walls could take centuries to build. but a ladder or a tunnel could be completed in a matter of hours to days. walls have always failed, but despite that we are all here today. look at the Romans, or the Persians, or most recently the European empires. they were all conquerors, not defenders building useless walls.

@@lenfirewood4089 the only useful thing walls ever "EVOLVED" into are retaining walls, and as every contractor knows even those are temporary.

@@lenfirewood4089 Unwanted wall breaches happened all the time throughout history. The Great Wall of China was constantly attacked and penetrated by huge armies. The Berlin wall was constantly breached and eventually destroyed. Cell "walls" are actually semi-permeable membranes, more like nets which keep their contents in unless a virus penetrates them and causes disruptions in the cell functions, which happens all the time. Trump constantly points to Israel as his wall justification. But the reality there is that the Palestinians are being prevented from going where they have a right to go. There are still rocket attacks. Tensions have never been greater. Most of the world thinks it's a horrible thing. Eventually that situation will detonate or the wall will be torn down for political reasons. Trump is building his wall because he believes it's a permanent solution to a problem that isn't even geographic in nature. It's an economic, cultural, geopolitical and fear-driven issue. He's doing the equivalent of answering a math question by covering his eyes and ears. But instead of addressing the reasons and motivations behind migrants, day laborers and asylum seekers, let alone even considering those as separate groups at the border, instead of opening a dialog to bridge to solutions, he thinks he can solve the problem by erecting more barriers. When that didn't work, he tried killing children. When that didn't work, he just said everything was working and called it a day.

@@Feintgames "Eventually that situation will detonate or the wall will be torn down for political reasons" and then will begin another genocide of the Jews - hooray! Walls don't work but when they do work it's a BAD thing. Orange man bad! Orange man bad!

This is actually kinda terrifying

@@daPvta not really.

When training programs like this, they are trained originally in simple enviroments and then moved into increasingly complex ones. As the early stages were trained where there was insufficent meterial to lock in the Seeker, any attempts that were too limit the movement of the Seeker directly would have been penalised with failure. Because of how they were taught, they learned that hiding was the only plausible option, and whilst they still could learn this behaviour, its too big a leap for them to learn it unless the enviroment necesitated it. They will only ever evolve to find the simplest answer. But if for example, you made a room with only 3 small wall segments, a Seeker, and more Hiders then could fit within the confines of the walls, they would soon learn that strategy. And could then be put into the same large sandboxes and would sometimes use that option. Their like people :D they only learn what you make them, or whats convenient!

​@@TheUntamedNetwork If you would add another rule like getting hungry after some time or anything else that discourages from being locked in then they might need to adapt. I would really love to make it more and more complex and just observe what they come up with to solve their problems.

@@TheUntamedNetwork Wouldn't that condition only make them trap the seekers if the hiders were all penalised whenever at least one of them was caught? I mean that if the objective of any given hider was to not be caught himself they would possibly compete to protect themselves instead of comming into an agreement to trap the seekers.

OMG!

@@TheWookieDavid They might compete, but they might also learn that being in competition with their fellow hiders is less rewarding than cooperating to trap the seekers.

top it off with some Nietzsche and Jung, then you'll really be in a good place

whats the difference

@@DeuceGenius It doesnt matter

Watch this video and meditate on the Multiverse.

for sure is just a simulation, we can box surf too lol

Duuude me too

same

Yep, same.

I would pay to watch this

There are MILLIONS of rounds of this, it took the seekers 22 million rounds to learn to chase after the hider.

It would be possible if the byte code was one of the inputs the AI has the ability to read. Anything the AI does while playing is writing to the memory directly at one address or another. But most likely they were only programmed with inputs to know their position/orientation in the world, and the position/orientation of objects within their "sight", and of those objects in their sight they probably know which are intractable and/or are currently being interacted with. Without that additional input of the ability to read the memory however, it would have no way to recognize that anything it was doing was bringing it closer to it's goals. And reading the byte code would dramatically slow down the AI learning because of all the data it would have to filter through. It would need access to every single memory address, because it couldn't tell among all of them which are relevant to whatever glitch it could find. It would also be filtering through things like a %0.0001 change in the rgba color of a box when a stray light ray generates a slightly different tinted shadow off of it, ect... It wouldn't be able to just get the memory address for a potential glitch or addresses to an overflow point. And even if it did somehow generate an overflow, and assuming it was programmed with the ability to read the memory and recognize the overflow it caused, unless it was programmed with some kind of decompiler the byte code would just be jibberish to it. Not to mention most glitches require setup's of multiple interactions at different memory addresses to achieve any effect, which it most likely wouldn't be capable of stringing together meaningfully even if it was allowed to run until the heat death of the universe. Those glitches like in super mario world were only ever found by people combing over the memory looking for specific overflow interactions in neighboring memory addresses that resulted in specific memory values that they were already looking for. The chance of a human or AI stringing together enough actions to result in glitches in SMW by accident is essentially 0.

@@ArcadiaCv The AI wouldn't have to read the code for this to occur. They would just have to perform and action that caused an overflow (or other unexpected event) and observe that it helped them in pursuit of their goal. For example: - They drop a block at coordinate a - They then drop a block at coordinate b - This happens to cause a memory overflow and they are transported to the hiders fort. - They will be rewarded for finding the hiders Now those steps aren't likely to cause a glitch, and the AI is probably going to find a quicker method first, but it's not impossible. Like you said the setup of requirements happening at once is vanishingly thin, but over more parallel runs and more complex environments, the odds fall. They probably don't even fall to "incredibly unlikely", but it's still possible.

Man that's some meta stuff

@@BrillTech To clarify, I wasn't saying they needed to read the code in order to repeat a glitch they found. I was saying they needed to read the code in order to find a glitch intentionally. And the chance of finding it unintentionally would take longer than the heat death of the universe. If a glitch even exists. The main reason they would have trouble finding a glitch unintentionally and get to a point where they could repeat it is because it would most likely require doing several things they have been specifically de-incentivise and trained not to do. For example, it might require picking up a cube and placing it in a corner away from the rest. That kind of behaviour would be trained out of the AI very early because the traditional methods it comes up with are the ones that get reinforced early and it gets punished(loses more often) for trying those kind of behaviours. Because it would never string together enough of those de-incentivise behaviours to make any known progress towards it's goal, it would likely abandon those behaviours all together very early after perhaps trying any given one of those actions once or twice on accident. The only way to surpass this would be if it knew it was somehow making progress towards it's goal, which would require it reading the code, at least on some level.

cool stratagy

Thats one of the things AI struggles to do - discover more efficent strategies. If their current method of performing the task works, then they are fine with that, and the probability of finding a more efficent method is very low

Nice

@@Hlebuw3k They work on reward and punishment method, according to them they are already doing it in the best way...

you make a really good point. But the design of the stage changes its strategy. So if they don't have at least 3 walls, open area to block all seekers, and the incentive to do so. They won't come up with that strategy. In most cases the hiders are playing defensive. So more than likely they will try to prevent being found by blockade, in stead of addressing the threat by cordoning off the seekers. The walls also play a part in being a resource, if the walls aren't big enough or there isn't enough of it, then they won't do it. If there are no deviations to try to cordon off the seekers, then the evolutionary growth will push them to do what you said. But the path of their growth doesn't reflect that in anyway. It really imitates life and mimic evolution very well. Only change when you need to, not when you want to.

Liberal: Lock up everything before taking shelter. Conservative: Lock up the seekers in a jail.

like this ukposts.info/have/v-deo/p3iYaYmBkIh5omQ.html

probably not in the codes

@@13ivanogre13 don't bring politics into stuff

Sword Master Rick roll.(memorize the link.)

I appreciate the AoT reference

"i see, you are a man of culture as well"

Now I can imagine a Titan surfing over something to get through the walls and it's hilarious af. XD

Well somebody destroyed all the walls

Do you think the titans use tasbots? Pretty sure zeke used an aimbot, but he keeps denying it

And after a billion times that, they will learn that they are in a simulation and start trying to escape.

@@mattsenkow6986 lol

Detroit: Become Human

An episode of Black Mirror in the making.

I know it's a joke but the rewards given are only for catching/escaping the other players, so this won't happen. That's also why many people are still pessimistic about the whole AI rises up agaisnt humans thing.

We call this "masturbation"

@@igorclaudino891 i was like "I hope someone dropped a masturbation joke". Not disappointed

Heroin.

@@igorclaudino891 HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

@@CM-4929 actually AI doesn't have the inherent limitations that humans have in that regard. It happens because you receive less dopamine if you do the same thing over and over. But as of now, there's nothing in the code of most AI to simulate that.

Came to write this. Hopefully soon! The hunted can become owner, then comes the process of domestication and selective breeding of the hunter, until they are miniature and fit in hand bags 🤣

Was looking around for this answer too. A few people explained it as following: "The AI's were originally trained in a world where they couldn't block the seekers in - only themselves. It's a "vestigial" instinct the later generations have, to block themselves in, not the seeker. If they ran the same algorithms in the more open world they may lock the seekers in, in some "species" of hider. If it was highly successful it would become dominant very quickly. The reason it didnt was becasue it never got tried. They learn, but not in a general enough way to figure out an entirely different strategy that the one they will always use because they know it works. This is a problem in AI design, and there are workarounds that work in certain cases, but the general problem is not solved. Basically, the bot had no reason to consider or try something like that after he had figured out a solution, and no way to predict what would happen anyway."

That's actually the thing that really bugs me about this and basically every other demonstration of "AI"-through-unguided-repetition. They never throw in a totally random factor. Natural evolution produces crazy experiments all the time. Not a major percentage of the time, but enough. The experiment sometimes works way better than anything that was arrived at incrementally -- such as, say, creating a cage by accident.

@@lam2558 So that was a design choice, basically hard-coding that they couldn't do that. I see no reason why they wouldn't figure out that imprisoning is the best option. When the environment changes drastically, why wouldn't the AI decide to take the gen1 agent and train itself again from scratch, if it finds a method to build upon that none of its more advanced agents use it could explore this new avenue freely.

>why wouldn't the AI decide to take the gen1 agent and train itself again from scratch Laurens (Multiple Lauren?) you DRASTICALLY misunderstand how an AI like this works.

Humans: ...run

the CHOSEN one O|-

everyone: SHUT IT DOWN!

That's actually not all that inaccurate! When an seeker finds a hider, the seeker gets a "reward" that encourages similar behavior in the future, similar to how a dog would get praise and treats to associate behavior with rewards. Same goes for hiders that aren't found by seekers.

@@quietsamurai1998How can a reward help? I mean, it's a motivational thing, you have to actually need or/and want something for a reward to be motivational, right?

@@nayastill151 The *only* thing an AI agent "wants" is to maximize their reward. If you're interested in learning more about the subject, I'm pretty sure that Computerphile has done a few videos on reinforcement learning that are a pretty good starting point.

@@nayastill151 Think of it this way: The algorithms that help the bots learn are focused on maximizing their reward. All changes to their behavior are made to maximize reward. They aren't actually "motivated" to get reward, that's simply how the learning algorithm is made.

@@quietsamurai1998 thanks! I'll check them out!

hiders: *makes a roof*

And This actually being a liget pro-gamer move.

Pun intended? I mean if 'playing with myself' could make me smarter then i would be a freaking genius man.

This comment is quite suspicious

ayo

ur smarter than a bot then

PogChamp Actually smart PogChamp

That's actually pretty smart considering you're not trying to be 'fair-play' like in real life.

Now that's thinking outside the box! By putting them into a box!

Dude that's genius

lmb20203 the agents will always find a xploit, the ultimate xploit will be killing all humans

What did you expect from a red bad guy.