Outcry From Electricians Over Fuse Upgrade Rules
Переглядів 35,277
День томуThere’s been an outcry in the trade over changes to the rules governing incomer fuse upgrades…
… an electrician is found guilty over the electrocution of a tradesman…
…and sparks lose their patience over the increasing amount of packing on electrical products…
Welcome to Electrical News Weekly in association with Solar Trade Sales, whether you're listening in the van, on site, or down at the wholesale counter.
============================================
Show Notes 🗒️
Free circuit protection myth-busting training module 👉 training.efixx.co.uk/course/c...
Check out YEPIC 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/yepic
============================================
Time Stamps ⏱
00:00 Electrical News Weekly 18th March 2024
00:43 Outcry from electricians over rule changes for fuse upgrades
01:54 ECA's new technical bulletin - Bonding of Commercial Kitchens
02:04 New Zealand electrician guilty after tradesman electrocuted
03:25 Question of the week
04:07 YEPIC - A new app for tradespeople
04:30 Metrel introduces safety tester for solar panels
04:56 Selectric develops range of kinetic switches
05:20 Electricians lose patience over excess packaging
05:53 We want to hear your stories
06:17 Thanks to our premium partners
07:34 Challenge words and winners
======================
Electrical News Weekly in association with
Solar Trade Sales 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/solartradesales
Thanks to our premium partners:
Compleo 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/compleo-ev
Doncaster Cables 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/doncastercable...
Sunsynk 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/sunsynk-enw
Scame 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/scame-enw
Test Instrument Solutions 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/tis
Crompton Controls 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/crompton-controls
Tap Electric 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/tap-electric
Hydra EV 👉 hub.efixx.co.uk/hydra-ev
===============================
We create fresh electrical content every day. What we produce is influenced by the thousands of subscribers who send us messages, leave comments and share our videos. We are always looking for new ways to collaborate and celebrate best practices. If you want to get involved with the channel or need to get in touch because you've won something during this news , contact us via the website.
👉 www.efixx.co.uk/get-involved
====================================
Subscribe to the eFIXX Electrical Industry News Podcast
👉 electricalnewsweekly.efixx.co.uk
Available on most major podcast platforms
Send in a press release for the next edition of ENW
👉 www.efixx.co.uk/electrical-ne...
=================================
#electricalnews #electricians #electricalindustry
@MervynPartin Місяць тому
Too much packaging is a problem everywhere, not just on hardware. It's hard to buy a sandwich on the road without a sharp knife to open all the wrapping. The earth wire connected to the live supply reminded me of the time we moved into a house in Essex in the 1980s. The kitchen 3 spotlight lamp fitting was ugly and one lamp was out anyway, so I decided to fit a fluorescent strip instead. After isolating the circuit, I removed the fitting and found that the metal frame was connected directly to the looped live. The previous owner had apparently died youngish of a heart attack- I've often wondered about that.
@merlin5476 Місяць тому
@MervynPartin...... how odd... i had exactly the same issue around 2 months ago where the 2ft flu was connected to the live loop, but add salt to the wound, it was fed with crumbly 2.5mm very old rubber flex.
@MervynPartin Місяць тому
@@merlin5476 It's quite horrifying, really.
@alexbowman7582 Місяць тому
My boys mother had a housing association tenement house in Glasgow and they upgraded the gas combi boiler but left the water feed on and it leaked out getting the floor wet and it apparently connected to a faulty circuit in the house below. The hall radiator then would give you an electric shock, I used to repair old TV’s and I know a proper shock and it was a full shock. My young son described it as a sore tickle. The HA electricians reearthed the radiator but it was still live and they couldn’t understand how you could receive a shock from an earthed radiator and I had to point out to them that the radiator was properly earthed it wasn’t live, it was the wet floor that was live and touching the radiator completed the circuit.
@Joe-lb8qn Місяць тому
I have a quinetic switch in my kitchen. Its used to switch on/off the waste disposal which was fitted some years after the kitchen, and avoided the need to drill through the marble worktop
@AnthonyHigham6414001080 Місяць тому
I remember many, many years ago watching an LEB engineer replace the existing 30amp cut out with a 100amp PME head. He laughed when I asked if it was safe and said the cable would get a bit warm but it would last longer as a result.
@timballam3675 Місяць тому
For every fuse octopus upgrade it's one place up the cue for everyone else. My u loping was carried out by a steer lighting company and octopus's contractor arrived tge same day to fit the 3phase meter and fuses.....
@K2teknik. Місяць тому
Regarding packaging, I was told that it for for the suppliers internal logistic, all items must have a barcode, some items can not be supplied with a barcode than the need for a small plastic bag where the barcode then can sit. So when you order 249 you get 249 small bags with an item in each, if you order 250 you get a box with 250 items in, life sucks.
@shiamjad Місяць тому
yes, Octopus is providing week long training for stage 2 and fuse upgradation
@efixx Місяць тому
Thanks for the info. 👍
@HSilver341 Місяць тому
Part of the job role at octopus energy
@twwanderer Місяць тому
Might be worth reaching out to Octopus to get someone from them to explain how it all works on their end?
@bobtahoma Місяць тому
Nah. That would require responsible journalism.
@pjofurey6239 Місяць тому
Octopus energy are trading insolvent .they also use a shoddy company called HASTE ltd who are breaking many laws like the electricity regs 1989 and the gas @ct 1954 among others , mainly,picking on single women , the elderly etc . OFGEM. Are complicit and at odds with the monopolies commission as their chairman Jonathon briefly also sits on the board of HMCTS……work it out
@christophergallagher3845 Місяць тому
Those selecteic wireless switches will be awesome for installing under unit lights in kitchens and probably outdoor lighting systems too like patio lightiñg . Looking forward to seeing them being used
@markyd2633 Місяць тому
Already using them....Quinetic range from TLC Using them for about 4 years now
@kennethausten Місяць тому
So one needs a training course to change a Fuse. ??????? We are qualified electricians. Suspect the course involves more regulations.
@johnchristmas7522 29 днів тому
upgrade to a 100amp on a looped service-twice!!
@edc1569 Місяць тому
If you install the generation equipment (PV/battery inverter) at the far end of the bus-bar then you can't overload the bus bar without also overloading the main cut-out fuse.
@Eggnog3000 Місяць тому
What?
@radiotowers1159 Місяць тому
Watch UKPN network area see an increase in smell of burning and fire calls !.The installer will take the risk so Octopus doesn’t need too.
@rkde2042 Місяць тому
I recently had my meter upgraded, they broke the fuse housing which is fine - it happens, national grid came out to replace it and have taken my 80a and fitted a 60a which is less than ideal. They've sent me a link to fill in as they had no records of my EV charger fitted in 2015. The charger is fitted about 2ft under the fuse and it's have expected them to fit like for like and not drop my potential by 20a which now we are close to the new fuse limit.
@AndrewDKinsey 25 днів тому
Excessive packaging could be a breach of The Packaging (Essential Requirements) Regulations 2015. For offences committed after March 2015 there are unlimited fines. This is regulated by Trading Standards, so complain to them if your products are over packaged. These regulations require amongst other things for packaging to be minimal, necessary to maintain safety , hygiene and acceptance of the product, and manufactured to permit reuse or recovery in accordance with specific requirements.
@seanthespark Місяць тому
Ironmonger and daffodil, great news as always OG Joe
@ks-hg5vo Місяць тому
Saving so much energy we need to put in bigger fuses
@jocramkrispy305 Місяць тому
Yes, because the hydrocarbon energy we're saving didn't go through the electric fuse
@rogerphelps9939 Місяць тому
A 7kw EV charger might be problematic even though there are plenty of 7kw shower heaters around.
@ks-hg5vo Місяць тому
@@rogerphelps9939 indeed. Just dont get home charge the car and have a shower while the misses cooks dinner
@rogerphelps9939 Місяць тому
Yes. I have a 13A switched fused spur to my garage with some 13 amp weattherproof sockets. I decided to granny charge both my old Leaf and my new Enyaq at the same time. That is at least 20 amps because the freezer in the garage runs on it too. It must have worked for a few hours but then I couldn't understand why the garage door didn't work. The fuse in the switch was truly cooked and then I twigged!@@ks-hg5vo
@mbak7801 Місяць тому
@@ks-hg5vo Only an idiot would do that. The car charges at night at £0.075 per KWh. Though to be fair the car could be a V2G setup so be pumping power back into the grid as well all the energy for the cooker and shower. Or the fixed solar battery and or time switching battery could carry the load preventing any grid load. My garage is starting to look a bit like a power station (which technically it is) in its own right.
@sergiofernandez3725 Місяць тому
It is interesting how Octopus are allowed to increase the main cut out fuse possibly to 100amps and the other lots are stating if there is PV or Battery Storage that it may need to be reduced from 100amps to 80 as the average domestic CU/DB is only rated to 100amps. Are people in the industry not talking amongst themselves about these things before they present it to the public/trade en mass? Likewise are PV and Battery Storage Installers told to check the main cut out fuse and advise that it should be downrated? Catch 22 there as it is illegal for a full scope spark to open the main cut out and check the fuse size but the DSO/DNO/MO do not always put a lable on the cut out stating the actual fuse size rather than leaving the OEM label which is 100amp MAX. Will this give Gaz a whiff of BS7671 18thAM3
@efixx Місяць тому
Yeah, lots to unravel from this. 🤔
@deang5622 Місяць тому
It isn't a catch 22 regarding the fuse as whilst it is illegal for the electrician to change it, the electrician can easily comply with both the requirement for a smaller fuse AND not breaking the law by not changing the fuse by contacting the DNO and having them do it. Just because the process around changing the fuse is cumbersome, that doesn't give the right, or make it legal for the electrician to change it. Change it yourself and you carry a small risk of prosecution. Now there is a debate to be had around whether an electrician should be able to change the main fuse, but there isn't going to be any change to the regulation anytime soon and I don't want this thread to become that debate. What I am saying, in summary, is it isn't a catch 22, the two requirements are not mutually exclusive and both can be complied with. It is just a bit of a pain in the proverbial.
@deang5622 Місяць тому
The regulations - as written down in BS7671 - take primacy over what can and can't be done regarding the electrical installation, not Octopus' opinion or views. The obligation is on the electrician doing the work to ensure it is compliant to BS7671 and it is quite clearly specified in those regs what is required in respect of additional sources of electrical power feeding through the CU. In order to meet the regulation, you can either a) Downgrade the main fuse and or b) Upgrade the CU to handle the higher current. It's a binary choice. The BS7671 regulation must be complied with. The Building Regs require it. I do take your point about not being able to obtain the main fuse's value without breaking the seal. I doubt the DNOs have a record of what fuse is used against every property, I just can't see them maintaining those records, and even if they are, the accuracy will undoubtedly be in question, so the fuse carrier is going to have to be opened to ascertain its rating. The DNO is going to have to accept they are going to have to do more call-outs to check the fuse rating on behalf of the electrician. Either that or somebody changes the law. Good luck on that! I can't see MPs with accountancy and law degrees giving a stuff about this topic, even if they can get their heads around it, which I am sure most of them cannot. They are not going to give this parliamentary time.
@sergiofernandez3725 Місяць тому
@@deang5622Something for the ENA (Energy Networks Association) and ESQCR (Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations) to get envolved in I assume as some DSO/DNO/MO decisions are outside of the scope of BS7671. It is also interesting to note that BS7671 is used in other countries outside of the UK like like Qatar, Malta etc.
@charliedecker7702 Місяць тому
One option is to fit a fused sw with an 80 fuse? Or a 2nd cut out? I was working on a digital billboard the other day that had 2 cutouts in series before the meter 3in apart🤷
@gottliebdee263 Місяць тому
I reckon the packaging thing is because we're so dishonest, (collectively). OEMs need to do two main things; 1. Protect the product in transit, (and in the production). 2. Protect the OEM from scabby people that break a product through deliberate or negligent misuse and take it back expecting a refund. Or simply use it once and return it to save money. Think about it, why would they add all that costly packaging if they didn't need to?
@ANTHONYBOOTH Місяць тому
Allowed to upgrade the company fuse eh? ...I can't see this ending well! ...I can see the need for an AVR + UPS (like I had back at Crete) ...I foresee grid voltage of 190 at peak times (just like back at Crete)........
@charliedecker7702 Місяць тому
DBs are rated at 100A but so are Henley blocks, so are the fuses going to be derated to protect those too?
@unSTEVOED Місяць тому
It seems world wide the standards of Electrical Workers is falling. More needs to be done as an Industry to keep people safe from the dangers of Electricity
@SethTreasure Місяць тому
Octopus can upgrade a fuse to max rating of 80A within NGED region subject to certain criteria being met
@SME_Ste Місяць тому
Why are the national grid involved in service upgrades?
@efixx Місяць тому
Good question. 🤔
@jmybuild Місяць тому
They are a DNO in some areas (including here in West Wales)
@bdh_555 Місяць тому
“National Grid” is a brand - National Grid Electricity Distribution is a DNO (they took over Western Power Distribution)
@SME_Ste Місяць тому
@@bdh_555 right I see. Appreciate the info.
@SME_Ste Місяць тому
@@jmybuild thanks
@TheChipmunk2008 Місяць тому
More to the point, re: upgrading the fuse, IS IT LOOPED *FROM* another property... you can't tell without access to DNO records
@Graham_Langley Місяць тому
Something that's concerned me. Most of the properties here, built '82, are looped and there's no indication on the final one that the supply is shared. Original fuses are 80a with 16mm² tails but several now have 25mm² tails and two power showers including the house looped from mine
@peternorman2563 27 днів тому
Well now you see the upcoming problems with heat pumps. Get your EV car plugged in during the cold winter nights and your air source heat pump working at 1 to 1 and hot cables or a blown main fuse. No doubt Network UK will replace it with a large invoice !
@EverydayLife621 Місяць тому
Just get a smart meter, they will put in an isolator for free. Also if you go direct to the manufacturer (my case Ohme), they use AES anyway who are approved to pull the fuse anyway.
@edc1569 Місяць тому
I assumed they would, but they didn't for me.
@bluebellelectrical Місяць тому
Nope, Octopus, Scottish Power, and Eon definitely don’t in Norfolk. Customer has to pay.
@davideyres955 Місяць тому
They did for my mum and dads place.
@MikeGleesonazelectrics Місяць тому
they didnt for me, devon.
@chazzlebazzle69 Місяць тому
Offer a cup of tea and a few biscuits and ask nicely, majority of the engineers will oblige with an isolator, literally 15mins extra on the job time
@rogerphelps9939 Місяць тому
A 9kw heat pump requires only around 3kw from the supply so no main fuse upgrade should be necessary even taking turn on surges into account.
@johnj4860 Місяць тому
Most are soft start inverter driven.
@08001967 Місяць тому
general comment: great to have an electricians news magazine
@intercity125 Місяць тому
ironmonger and fractious?
@Rivenworld Місяць тому
He got off light, 8 months? And not even in prison...
@acelectricalsecurity Місяць тому
I wouldn't worry about octopus they say one thing then do the opposite, they said they were accepting PV installs that weren't done by mcs installers, two of my customers called octopus and they were insisting on an mcs certificate. There will be a big brown envelope falling on someone's desk, to grease the wheels of progress 😂😂
@MrIsrar626 Місяць тому
Ironmongers Anvil?
@bucklelanefarm Місяць тому
Ironmonger’s idialect?
@nickhuk18 Місяць тому
Ironmonger and daffodil
@DJ-SPARKY-REACH-ON-AIR Місяць тому
daffodil 10 layers good luck to all
@efixx Місяць тому
Great guesses, listen to next Monday's show to see if you got it. 👍
@raymondburke1261 Місяць тому
Anvil, and daffodil
@mark_just_mark Місяць тому
Anvil and Daffodil
@Goodwithwood69 Місяць тому
Daffodil!
@Goodwithwood69 Місяць тому
Anvil!
@themisterh Місяць тому
Anvil and Daffodil.
@spankeyfish Місяць тому
I wonder if kinetic switches would be safe to use in a bathroom.
@JacobKelly02 Місяць тому
Don’t see why not
@UnimportantAcc Місяць тому
What's the voltage generated by the kinetic action? Defo lower than 50V, so I'd say yes.
@stevejacklin8462 Місяць тому
Daffadil and Anvil
@bdblazer6400 Місяць тому
one word is sip
@abbash7727 Місяць тому
Daffodil and anvil
@LeedsSpark Місяць тому
Anvil and daffodil
@andrewwatson3576 Місяць тому
ironmonger and daffodil
@ncey8713 Місяць тому
Ironmonger, daffodil
@jeffmaddison2158 Місяць тому
Ironmongers and daffodil
@shanesmall-xl5wj Місяць тому
Ironmonger & daffodil
@Jasonf-km5mq Місяць тому
anvil, daffodil
@EdwardBretherton Місяць тому
anvil and daffodil
@darronjknight Місяць тому
Ironmongers daffodil
@mcielectrics Місяць тому
Anvil & daffodil
@chrishorrocks4882 Місяць тому
Anvil daffodil
@ewengmarshall Місяць тому
Anvil & daffodil.
@G1ZQCArtwork Місяць тому
Anvil & Itching....
@Jasonf-km5mq Місяць тому
Vision daffodil
@86abaile Місяць тому
Fractious and daffodil.
@hasan2471 Місяць тому
patience ironmonger
@garethwilliams8944 Місяць тому
Foul, daffodil
@abzzeus Місяць тому
IT world has horror stories of excess packaging but one springs to mind - licence codes. These weren't preprint rather generated on the fly, when requested. They (20+) came one per single sheet of A4, in it's own foam lined cardboard box, then 5 boxes bundled in a large box and all large boxes banded to a pallet. You read that what should have been one single piece of A4 came on a PALLET
@fudgedonkey Місяць тому
Daffodil, iron monger
@liberatodelgreco4430 Місяць тому
are you deleting my comments?
@efixx Місяць тому
Absolutely not sir. 😃
@liberatodelgreco4430 Місяць тому
@@efixx thank you it must be my end.
@jeremypritchard9058 Місяць тому
I’m sorry that kiwi ain’t no sparks and should go to jail not left at home with his left hand
@mattbooth92 Місяць тому
Anvil and Daffodil
@kevinhenryviii Місяць тому
Anvil and daffodil
@joshdayman Місяць тому
Anvil & daffodil
@tadeuszprism2913 Місяць тому
Anvil and Daffodil
@MarcusNailor Місяць тому
Anvil and daffodil
@pete1927 Місяць тому
Anvil and daffodil
@mikeedwards7173 Місяць тому
Anvil and Daffodil
@efixx Місяць тому
Good guesses Mike, maybe you'll be a winner! 😃
Серіал К.О.Д.
Переглядів 131 тис.
CheapRVliving
Переглядів 321 тис.
spline
Переглядів 392 тис.